Lik Sang

[Digi.k]

I have used this company a few times in the past (and even though they may seem expensive I still thought they were good) and wanted to do business with them sometime in the future but this news was just unexpected and shocked me..

Important Notice: Lik-Sang.com Out of Business due to Multiple Sony Lawsuits
Tue Oct 24 2006 21:58:51 Hong Kong Time - Corporate Info

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE - OUT OF BUSINESS NOTICE

Hong Kong, October 24th of 2006 - Lik-Sang.com, the popular gaming retailer from Hong Kong, has today announced that it is forced to close down due to multiple legal actions brought against it by Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Limited and Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. Sony claimed that Lik-Sang infringed its trade marks, copyright and registered design rights by selling Sony PSP consoles from Asia to European customers, and have recently obtained a judgment in the High Court of London (England) rendering Lik-Sang's sales of PSP consoles unlawful.

As of today, Lik-Sang.com will not be in the position to accept any new orders and will cancel and refund all existing orders that have already been placed. Furthermore, Lik-Sang is working closely with banks and PayPal to refund any store credits held by the company, and the customer support department is taking care of any open transactions such as pending RMAs or repairs and shipping related matters. The staff of Lik-Sang will make sure that nobody will get hurt in the crossfire of this ordeal.

A Sony spokesperson declined to comment directly on the lawsuit against Lik-Sang, but recently went on to tell Gamesindustry.biz that "ultimately, we're trying to protect consumers from being sold hardware that does not conform to strict EU or UK consumer safety standards, due to voltage supply differences et cetera; is not - in PS3's case - backwards compatible with either PS1 or PS2 software; will not play European Blu-Ray movies or DVDs; and will not be covered by warranty".

Lik Sang strongly disagrees with Sony's opinion that their customers need this kind of protection and pointed out that PSP consoles shipped from Lik-Sang contained genuine Sony 100V-240V AC Adapters that carry CE and other safety marks and are compatible world wide. All PSP consoles were in conformity with all EU and UK consumer safety regulations.

Furthermore, Sony have failed to disclose to the London High Court that not only the world wide gaming community in more than 100 countries relied on Lik-Sang for their gaming needs, but also Sony Europe's very own top directors repeatedly got their Sony PSP hard or software imports in nicely packed Lik-Sang parcels with free Lik-Sang Mugs or Lik-Sang Badge Holders, starting just two days after Japan's official release, as early as 14th of December 2004 (more than nine months earlier than the legal action). The list of PSP related Sony Europe orders reads like the who's who of the videogames industry, and includes Ray Maguire (Managing Director, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Ltd), Alan Duncan (UK Marketing Director, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Ltd), Chris Sorrell (Creative Director, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Ltd), Rob Parkin (Development Director, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Limited), just to name a few.

"Today is Sony Europe victory about PSP, tomorrow is Sony Europe's ongoing pressure about PlayStation 3. With this precedent set, next week could already be the stage for complaints from Sony America about the same thing, or from other console manufacturers about other consoles to other regions, or even from any publisher about any specific software title to any country they don't see fit. It's the beginning of the end... of the World as we know it", stated Pascal Clarysse, formerly known as the Marketing Manager of Lik-Sang.com.

"Blame it on Sony. That's the latest dark spot in their shameful track record as gaming industry leader. The Empire finally 'won', few dominating retailers from the UK probably will rejoice the news, but everybody else in the gaming world lost something today."

you can read it from the link at their own website:

http://www.lik-sang.com/news.php?artc=3901

[esteban]

No way. I can and can't believe it.

[akamichi]

That totally sucks!  I was just browsing their site over the weekend looking to order some stuff too!

Hopefully they'll open up a new business and not have any Sony crap for sale.

Screw Sony.

[Seldane]

I've never liked Lik-sang, so I don't mind at all. Actually, it makes me a bit happy, as I was annoyed by the whole Lik-sang-craze.

I don't see why an overpriced Donkey Kong plush or some Japanese strategy game for PS2 would be interesting anyway. Good riddance, I say.

Also: I can't believe people are blaming Sony for this! Lik-sang is to blame, as they illegally sold various products. Any resonably large company in that position would do the same to shut them down. I'm sure Nintendo and Microsoft are just as happy about this as Sony is.

[radiantgun]

SONY !!!! Feck them now !!!! It better not be Play Asia next !!!!

[GUTS]

Yeah lets all rejoice that a great place to import games and accessories is being shut down, great point Seldane.  Sony is the fucking devil, they're just trying to take everybody they can down with them since their video game division is on it's last legs.  Do people even buy PSP stuff anymore?

[Digi.k]

I was hoping to import some DS japan only games from lik sang... oh wells..

Sony has also responded about the closure of lik sang too:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=20564

[CrackTiger]

I like how Sony Europe sued them over importing PSP systems, but a bunch of Sony Europe execs were Lik Sang customers who'd ordered PSPs from them.

And it wasn't just for 'evidence', they didn't need any.

Also: I can't believe people are blaming Sony for this! Lik-sang is to blame, as they illegally sold various products. Any resonably large company in that position would do the same to shut them down. I'm sure Nintendo and Microsoft are just as happy about this as Sony is.

Nintendo and Microsoft do everything illegal they can get away with, although they've been caught several times, but I wouldn't be happy if they got shut down.

Whether you like Lik-Sang or not, this sets a very dangerous precedent. We may be a few steps away from a ban on foreign electronics in general, which would include classic game systems.

[rolins]

Darn and I was thinking about purchasing a GP2X during x-mas. They had great price for it too.

[TurboXray]

The European division of Sony!? WTF?

 Not only do the European gamers get screwed by their European counterparts (Sony, Nintendo, Sega, etc), but now the rippling effects of their long schlong policy is extending to posteriors around the globe.


*shakes fist at the European division*

[neokellyzero]

Screw Sony-
Screw PS3-
Screw a company that "discourages 2-d gaming" on every level-
Screw any company that operates like a terrorist-
Screw Sony because they helped oust Sega of the console Market-
Screw Nintendo because they were in bed with Sony once-
Screw Sony because they're party of the evil trinity-(walmart,sony,nike)

I didn't plan on buying a 360 or Wii, but I may buy both just to do my part in making Sony's numbers worse-  I doubt they'll need any help doing the shit they do though-

[Keranu]

Screw Sony.

I never had a problem with Lik Sang except the slow shipping, but they have some decent prices and some neat stuff to offer. And unlike other non-American online shops, they actually sold American Turbo products and for quite cheap too (I paid like $5 for a new Turbo Express AC adapter once, other sites typically charge $20 new). So yeah, I'm a bit sad to see them go.

[OldRover]

They won't stay down long. Just like Victor Ireland came back, so will Lik-Sang in one form or another. I'm not gonna get into the whole "Screw Sony!" thing, because I hold loyalty to no one, but I do think it's rather ridiculous for them to be pulling this kind of shit. Did Lik-Sang not buy Sony's machines? It's not like they fabricated them themselves in a non-Sony factory or anything like that...I don't understand what the big deal is here.

But about the "helped oust Sega from the console market"...Sega had it coming with their retarded policies. They did it to themselves, as NEC had done years earlier.

[grahf]

I've been buying things from lik-sang since they first opened, when they used to stock more vcd players than video games. Ive ordered a bunch of DS games from them over the last year, and its a pity this had to happen. Especially since they really werent doing anything illegal. I guess sony doesnt like it when someone gets in the way of them raping europe on prices.

[neokellyzero]

Nod- you're right, Sony played only a small part in sega's demise-  Sega kind of screwed themselves with the 32x to saturn to dreamcast transition(among other things, many thing too long to list)- but I'm being jaded here as I hate Sony-

I wouldn't say that I have loyalty to any company, but I do have a disdain for Sony and their tactics-

Sony Will Fail- Someday-

Look at Beta.
Look at Minidisc.
Look at UMD.
Look at Blueray- not yet, but give it a year or so-

[esteban]

Lik-sang had some great deals, you just had to be patient / observant. I snagged tons of PCE / TG-16 items at nice prices -- and the items were in excellent condition (unlike ebay, where everyone claims that their items are in pristine condition). For example, one of my last orders:

Brand-new, CIB TurboExpress AC adapter and a CIB car adapter. Price? $0.99 each, with very cheap shipping, to boot.

------------

When it comes to large corporations who do fucked-up shit, Sony is just as bad as Microsoft and Nintendo. Not one of these corporations truly have our (consumers) interests at heart, and their histories make that clear.

[Seldane]

They won't stay down long. Just like Victor Ireland came back, so will Lik-Sang in one form or another. I'm not gonna get into the whole "Screw Sony!" thing, because I hold loyalty to no one, but I do think it's rather ridiculous for them to be pulling this kind of shit. Did Lik-Sang not buy Sony's machines? It's not like they fabricated them themselves in a non-Sony factory or anything like that...I don't understand what the big deal is here.

But about the "helped oust Sega from the console market"...Sega had it coming with their retarded policies. They did it to themselves, as NEC had done years earlier.

Lik-sang sold Japanese PSP systems to Europe before it got launched there - THAT IS ILLEGAL. That's why Sony of Europe sued them. They did NOT make them bankrupt, they just sued them. Lik-sang did not show up in court, and therefore they lost the case. After that, they did this. Some suspect it is a conspiracy, and I wouldn't be surprised it if was. They had no reason to go bankrupt, they've got plenty of money.

When Lik-sang sells Japanese PSP systems to European customers, Sony of Europe gets nothing! Sony of Japan and Sony of Europe are two ENTIRELY different companies and they do not share profits in any way whatsoever.

[GUTS]

I'm sure it cost Sony more in legal fees to sue Lik Sang than they lost to the few thousand people who imported PSPs.  Hell they should have been happy, Sony Japan took the hit on the hardware instead of Sony Europe.  Maybe instead of suing people for giving consumers what they want, Sony should actually try and, I don't know, give consumers what they want?  I feel bad for Europe when it comes to video games, it seems like they get royally fucked over all the time.

[OldRover]

I'm sure it cost Sony more in legal fees to sue Lik Sang than they lost to the few thousand people who imported PSPs.  Hell they should have been happy, Sony Japan took the hit on the hardware instead of Sony Europe.  Maybe instead of suing people for giving consumers what they want, Sony should actually try and, I don't know, give consumers what they want?  I feel bad for Europe when it comes to video games, it seems like they get royally fucked over all the time.

History shows that I don't really agree with you a whole lot. However, I have to agree with everything you just said here...I don't understand why Europe always gets the shaft. It's been going on for as long as I can remember in the video game industry, and it isn't just Sony doing it...it's most all of them! But then again...the bigwigs in the Japanese offices seem to think that the world is made up of two countries: Japan and the United States.

[Seldane]

I'm sure it cost Sony more in legal fees to sue Lik Sang than they lost to the few thousand people who imported PSPs.  Hell they should have been happy, Sony Japan took the hit on the hardware instead of Sony Europe.  Maybe instead of suing people for giving consumers what they want, Sony should actually try and, I don't know, give consumers what they want?  I feel bad for Europe when it comes to video games, it seems like they get royally fucked over all the time.

What exactly do you mean by that anyway? They released the PSP outside of Japan, now didn't they? Sure, a couple of months later than in Japan, but it's always like that. Hell, why import a PSP before it gets released outside of Japan anyways? The launch titles weren't exactly impressive, and they were all in Japanese.

[guyjin]

Lik-sang sold Japanese PSP systems to Europe before it got launched there - THAT IS ILLEGAL.

No it isn't.

[CrackTiger]

Anyone who bought a PSP in Europe before it launched would probably be buying mostly Euro games after that wouldn't they?

And isn't Sony taking a hit for each piece of hardware the sell anyway? In which case, weren't importers actually saving Sony Europe some money and then pumping them with even more for overpriced software?

[Seldane]

Lik-sang sold Japanese PSP systems to Europe before it got launched there - THAT IS ILLEGAL.

No it isn't.

Oh it most certainly is. Maybe not in USA but that has nothing to do with it. Exporting products (electronics) not yet published (but that is going to be) to a European country is illegal. I remember when people were trying to sell American DS consoles in Sweden before it got launched here, all the auctions immediately got pulled because the publisher of Nintendo products threatened to sue the auction site.

This is why Sony of Europe sued Lik-sang and won. Lik-sang were illegally selling PSP consoles to Europe and that is the end of it.

And isn't Sony taking a hit for each piece of hardware the sell anyway? In which case, weren't importers actually saving Sony Europe some money and then pumping them with even more for overpriced software?

Software is not overpriced in Europe. It is basically exactly the same as in America. Let's say a new game in USA costs $40 and a new game in Europe costs €40.

€40 equals about $50 so that makes the European games more expensive, right? - Wrong. The European economy is generally stronger than the American one. Euro is a stronger currency than dollars, so there is no difference.

[Joe Redifer]

If what you say about importing stuff being illegal in Europe is true, then Europe is a pretty messed up place (among other reasons).  This is why they are made to suffer by getting everything last.  Take that!  Ha!

Anyway if Sony would get off of their asses and just take care of the Euro market, there wouldn't be any need to import stuff now would there?  What a dumbass company.  And making things region free and then whining about people importing is just, well, hypocritical.

[CrackTiger]

Lik-sang sold Japanese PSP systems to Europe before it got launched there - THAT IS ILLEGAL.

No it isn't.

Oh it most certainly is. Maybe not in USA but that has nothing to do with it. Exporting products (electronics) not yet published (but that is going to be) to a European country is illegal. I remember when people were trying to sell American DS consoles in Sweden before it got launched here, all the auctions immediately got pulled because the publisher of Nintendo products threatened to sue the auction site.

This is why Sony of Europe sued Lik-sang and won. Lik-sang were illegally selling PSP consoles to Europe and that is the end of it.

And isn't Sony taking a hit for each piece of hardware the sell anyway? In which case, weren't importers actually saving Sony Europe some money and then pumping them with even more for overpriced software?

Software is not overpriced in Europe. It is basically exactly the same as in America. Let's say a new game in USA costs $40 and a new game in Europe costs €40.

€40 equals about $50 so that makes the European games more expensive, right? - Wrong. The European economy is generally stronger than the American one. Euro is a stronger currency than dollars, so there is no difference.

I guess what most people meant, was more that it wasn't immoral, even if it was technically illegal. Kinda like how most people don't have a problem with underaged drinking or even jaywalking.

Joe makes a good point about the lack of region lockout. I guess Sony in general wasn't too concerned about the potential impact it would have for Sony Europe.

Maybe Sony Europe should be suing Sony Japan instead?  

[_Paul]

Despite who was right and who was wrong in this case, Sony have royally pissed off an awful lot of gamers out there, AGAIN. Their name is already mud and if they are not careful, they're going to be heading for a historical fall.

[OldRover]

Now accepting bets for "Sony's Last Stand"! Who will bet that the PS3 will be Sony's last entry? And who bets that they can overcome this massive blemish and pull out a 4th console a mere two years after the PS3's launch?

[Seldane]

PS3 will definitely be the winner of the this generation, and the PS4 will win the next.

The only people who actually complain about Sony are forum geeks and Xbox fanboys. The "general public" still sees the PS3 as the only alternative on the market. Xbox 360 and Wii does not exist to them.

[OldRover]

I know absolutely no one here looking forward to the PS3. In fact, most of the video game stores down here still have tons of open slots for PS3 preorders.

[_Paul]

PS3 will definitely be the winner of the this generation, and the PS4 will win the next..

Yes I seem to remember the Dreamcast being the guaranteed leading console before it was released.

The only people who actually complain about Sony are forum geeks and Xbox fanboys.

...and people who bought Sony audio CDs that contained spyware, and people that bought machines with Sony batteries that could have blown up, and people who play the many Sony MMOs that they have screwed into the ground, and Joe Public who has had to buy 2 or more PlayStations because they kept breaking down...

...don't underestimate the power of the internet and bad press.

[Seldane]

All I have to say is: Xbox 360 has been more or less a "flop" ever since it got released. It seems to do fairly well in North America, but is more or less a disaster in all the other parts of the world. Wii will probably be popular for about a year, but then it will fade away due to lack of good software. Sony has really strong 3rd party relations, and Final Fantasy alone can easily make it a success.

I haven't heard much bad stuff about the PS3 other than on uber-geek websites that nobody visits (such as that japanophile website with the yellow/green color scheme, don't remember its name) and message boards. Most magazines are seemingly heavily anticipating the release of the PS3.

Sony has no competition this generation. They might not sell 100 million units like they've done so far with the PS2 (and it is still selling really, REALLY well - much much better than the Xbox 360), but it will undoubtedly be the winning console.

Yes I seem to remember the Dreamcast being the guaranteed leading console before it was released.

Where did you hear this? I remember that the Dreamcast got tons of really, really bad press (on TV, magazines and on the Internet) shortly after its release. I have honestly never heard anything good about the Dreamcast other than from diehard fans. The Xbox 360 will more than likely fare a similiar fate.

[CrackTiger]

I know absolutely no one here looking forward to the PS3. In fact, most of the video game stores down here still have tons of open slots for PS3 preorders.

Thats because you're a "forum geek"!  

But Seldane's right, there's no acounting for taste and people don't learn lessons very well. They keep coming back for punishment again and again when they get screwed over by a company.

Paris Hilton is a multimedia superstar and OJ gets to write a book about how the murders happened, -under the imaginary scenario that he actually did it. What still mourning innocent guy wouldn't accept $3.5 million to do this?

But you know what, the book will sell millions. Because regular people just don't care.

All I have to say is: Xbox 360 has been more or less a "flop" ever since it got released. It seems to do fairly well in North America, but is more or less a disaster in all the other parts of the world. Wii will probably be popular for about a year, but then it will fade away due to lack of good software. Sony has really strong 3rd party relations, and Final Fantasy alone can easily make it a success.

I haven't heard much bad stuff about the PS3 other than on uber-geek websites (such as that japanophile website with the yellow/green color scheme, don't remember its name) and message boards. Most magazines are seemingly heavily anticipating the release of the PS3.

Sony has no competition this generation. They might not sell 100 million units like they did with the PS2, but it will undoubtedly be the winning console.

The Sega Genesis was a flop in Japan and only succeeded because of the massive U.S. market. As long as a system wins in America, they've won overall.

[esteban]

PS3 will definitely be the winner of the this generation, and the PS4 will win the next..

Yes I seem to remember the Dreamcast being the guaranteed leading console before it was released.

The only people who actually complain about Sony are forum geeks and Xbox fanboys.

...and people who bought Sony audio CDs that contained spyware, and people that bought machines with Sony batteries that could have blown up, and people who play the many Sony MMOs that they have screwed into the ground, and Joe Public who has had to buy 2 or more PlayStations because they kept breaking down...

...don't underestimate the power of the internet and bad press.

Sorry, but I agree with Seldane on this one. The only folks who are "pissed off at Sony" are a small minority of customers. Mainstream gamers, Sony's bread and butter, are grumbling about the price of the PS3, but not about whether or not they want a PS3. We (geeks) live in an isolated bubble and if we're not careful, we start to generalize our online experiences (i.e. the constant ragging on Sony and hourly predictions of Sony's imminent collapse in gaming forums, digg.com, /., etc.) as if they were sentiments held by the vast majority of gaming consumers. Will Sony's reign last forever? No. Will it end with the PS2? No.

Of course I can't predict the future, but, IMO, it will be incredibly unlikely that PS3 will be anything but a success. XBOX360 is a runner-up, as far as the general gaming public is concerned. Wii is the wildcard (and I think it could be pretty successful for Nintendo... at least as successful as GameCube, which, despite being looked down upon, was profitable since day 1 of launch... unlike, say, Microsoft's consoles). PS3, I predict, will again be market leader, though perhaps MS and Nintendo can grab a bigger slice of the pie for themselves.

I know MS intends to make inroads in the console gaming market, but it won't be this generation that will enable them to rival Sony's dominance. Also, Sony profits from PS1 and PS2, which certainly help them when they lose mad cash on PS3 hardware. Microsoft has so much $$$ that it could sustain losses forever, though. I know Sony has tons of $$$ as well, but I'm not sure any corporation, outside of MS, could sustain such losses without blinking an eyelash:

"Home and Entertainment operating loss increased primarily as a result of a $682 million increase in cost of revenue primarily associated with the Xbox 360, partially offset by the revenue growth," the company said in its earnings report. "Our business model anticipates that while we currently sell Xbox 360 consoles at a negative margin, product cost reductions and the future margins on sales of games and other products will enable us to achieve a positive margin over the Xbox 360 console lifecycle."

While such predictions may reassure some, others will find it interesting that Microsoft also still loses money on the original Xbox, which was introduced back in 2001. "The first-generation Xbox consoles continue to have negative margins," said the company." source: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6154413.html

[CrackTiger]

PS3 will definitely be the winner of the this generation, and the PS4 will win the next..

Yes I seem to remember the Dreamcast being the guaranteed leading console before it was released.

The only people who actually complain about Sony are forum geeks and Xbox fanboys.

...and people who bought Sony audio CDs that contained spyware, and people that bought machines with Sony batteries that could have blown up, and people who play the many Sony MMOs that they have screwed into the ground, and Joe Public who has had to buy 2 or more PlayStations because they kept breaking down...

...don't underestimate the power of the internet and bad press.

Sorry, but I agree with Seldane on this one. The only folks who are "pissed off at Sony" are a small minority of customers. Mainstream gamers, Sony's bread and butter, are grumbling about the price of the PS3, but not about whether or not they want a PS3. We (geeks) live in an isolated bubble and if we're not careful, we start to generalize our online experiences (i.e. the constant ragging on Sony and hourly predictions of Sony's imminent collapse in gaming forums, digg.com, /., etc.) as if they were sentiments held by the vast majority of gaming consumers. Will Sony's reign last forever? No. Will it end with the PS2? No.

Of course I can't predict the future, but, IMO, it will be incredibly unlikely that PS3 will be anything but a success. XBOX360 is a runner-up, as far as the general gaming public is concerned. Wii is the wildcard (and I think it could be pretty successful for Nintendo... at least as successful as GameCube, which, despite being looked down upon, was profitable since day 1 of launch... unlike, say, Microsoft's consoles). PS3, I predict, will again be market leader, though perhaps MS and Nintendo can grab a bigger slice of the pie for themselves.

I know MS intends to make inroads in the console gaming market, but it won't be this generation that will enable them to rival Sony's dominance. Also, Sony profits from PS1 and PS2, which certainly help them when they lose mad cash on PS3 hardware. Microsoft has so much $$$ that it could sustain losses forever, though. I know Sony has tons of $$$ as well, but I'm not sure any corporation, outside of MS, could sustain such losses without blinking an eyelash:

"Home and Entertainment operating loss increased primarily as a result of a $682 million increase in cost of revenue primarily associated with the Xbox 360, partially offset by the revenue growth," the company said in its earnings report. "Our business model anticipates that while we currently sell Xbox 360 consoles at a negative margin, product cost reductions and the future margins on sales of games and other products will enable us to achieve a positive margin over the Xbox 360 console lifecycle."

While such predictions may reassure some, others will find it interesting that Microsoft also still loses money on the original Xbox, which was introduced back in 2001. "The first-generation Xbox consoles continue to have negative margins," said the company." source: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6154413.html

And as soon as Microsoft becomes the new leader, everyone will hate them the most instead.  

[TurboXray]

The downfall of Sony is not going to come from consumer presure or displeasure. I don't think they're stupid enough to agitate the consumer to this point - although they sure do like trying to mold the market in what's considered quality or popular for the masses. I'm sure Sony pulls some strong arm tactics with developers in the way Nintendo did with the SNES and this will more that likely be their downfall. In the end, the average (and yes stupid) American consumer will buy its console because everybody tells them Sony is the best - has the best - and you're a loser if you don't have one.

 MS success for the 'box was its aggressive advertising to the older audience - paticularly to sports and non-gamers. 360 on the other hand is enjoying a little more success on a wider range of audience than it's predecessor thanks to the exposure of its predecessor, but MS will more than likely not be that competitive or even in the same bracket with the Sony this time around. They're still building there recognition in the gaming world.  I'm sure MS is already working on it next-gen console though. Sony maybe be winning the fight, but one thing is for sure - MS is in it for the war (and has the funds to back it up).

 I'm still not sure about Nintendo. They are a profitable company among other things, but there image in the broader gaming world or US to be specific is still trying to recover. I think Nintendo's strategy right now is to just stay in the game so to speak by offering unique software and ideas as it can't just complete directly with Sony in its current state. As long as they survive, they will have as chance later down the road. I wouldn't be supprised if they team up with another company the way NEC and Hudson did.

 There is also room for an unkown to come into the market and take it the way Sony did with the PS. This will probably happen around the PS4 time as people tend to yern for charge and something new/fresh over time.

[Keranu]

I don't know about you guys, but around this part of America, the 360 is huge. No one seems interested in anything else honestly, all they care about is their war games and Madden . People seem awfully turned off by the fact of how much PS3 costs too, so in my prediction the PS3 will flop in this part of the country at least. Wii is most certainly a wild card, as Steve put it.

[GUTS]

Microsoft is basically following the same strategy that made Sega a success with the Genesis.  They're going after the older mass market demographic in America, and that's FPS and sports games, which is basically what Sega did back in the early 90s with sports games.  Plus with how people will generally pick whatever option is cheapest if they can't really see any difference between the two, I don't see how the 360 can be anything but a smashing success in America.

[TurboXray]

PS3's cost is going to cut out some of its younder audience - including pre-teens as well as teens. This is were Wii will increase it's consumer base. 360 is enjoying some success because the PS3 hasn't come out yet. I almost bought a 360 this summer until I realised it was an additional $50 for component cables ($299 system doesn't come with them). If Hudson brings out the Far East of Eden game, then it's on. I won't be buying a PS3 until there are a fair amount of quality titles out for it - regardless of a price drop or not. In the past, I've tried to purchase all the systems at some point, but it's getting pretty expensive now a days.

[Digi.k]

You know I have no doubt the PS3 will be a success.. but probably not as big as their PS2 and it will probably take some some before they take that lead..

As for Sony's company as a whole well they not doing very well right now.. Yes there is a small backlash but also their profits have taken quite a nosedive.

this taken from 1up's website:

Sony's Profits Take a Nosedive
Overheating batteries, PS3 cause a 94% plunge in Q2.
by Susan Arendt, 10/26/2006

When forecasting its profit margin for the year, Sony expected to take a hit from the upcoming PlayStation 3 launch; companies regularly lose money when making new hardware, so some financial hemorrhaging was to be expected. What Sony couldn't have foreseen, however, was the massive battery recall that ended up costing them a whopping $429 million and sent their bottom line screaming into the basement.

Yahoo breaks down the battery snafu: practically every laptop maker in the world has recalled Sony's lithium-ion batteries due to their unfortunate (though rare) habit of overheating and bursting into flames. The cost to Sony's profits is obvious, but the more subtle damage was done to the company's image as a mainstay of consumer technology. The recall couldn't have come at a worse time for Sony, whose gaming division also posted a loss of $366 million as a result of PS3 prep. Even Sony's movie business failed to impress, adding another $129 million to the company's total losses.

While Sony's decision to reduce the number of PSPs shipped in fiscal 2006 makes a certain amount of sense in light of this financial news, its decision to lower the cost of the PS3 in Japan by 20% is curious. Such a slash will reduce what little profit the company was going to make on the hardware that would have almost certainly sold out at the full asking price.

If you want to read it in full you can go here:  Yea I know I'm fanning the flames of hate a bit but I got burnt earlier this year from sony while I was trying to sell my "foreign" DVD imports on eBay.. ¬__¬

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061026/ap_on_bi_ge/japan_sony_11

[PC Gaijin]

Lets dig this thread up in about two years.

[CrackTiger]

Lets dig this thread up in about two years.

Its hilarious the crap I read in 'vintage' gaming mags!  

[esteban]

You know I have no doubt the PS3 will be a success.. but probably not as big as their PS2 and it will probably take some some before they take that lead..

As for Sony's company as a whole well they not doing very well right now.. Yes there is a small backlash but also their profits have taken quite a nosedive.

this taken from 1up's website:

Sony's Profits Take a Nosedive
Overheating batteries, PS3 cause a 94% plunge in Q2.
by Susan Arendt, 10/26/2006

When forecasting its profit margin for the year, Sony expected to take a hit from the upcoming PlayStation 3 launch; companies regularly lose money when making new hardware, so some financial hemorrhaging was to be expected. What Sony couldn't have foreseen, however, was the massive battery recall that ended up costing them a whopping $429 million and sent their bottom line screaming into the basement.

Yahoo breaks down the battery snafu: practically every laptop maker in the world has recalled Sony's lithium-ion batteries due to their unfortunate (though rare) habit of overheating and bursting into flames. The cost to Sony's profits is obvious, but the more subtle damage was done to the company's image as a mainstay of consumer technology. The recall couldn't have come at a worse time for Sony, whose gaming division also posted a loss of $366 million as a result of PS3 prep. Even Sony's movie business failed to impress, adding another $129 million to the company's total losses.

While Sony's decision to reduce the number of PSPs shipped in fiscal 2006 makes a certain amount of sense in light of this financial news, its decision to lower the cost of the PS3 in Japan by 20% is curious. Such a slash will reduce what little profit the company was going to make on the hardware that would have almost certainly sold out at the full asking price.

If you want to read it in full you can go here:  Yea I know I'm fanning the flames of hate a bit but I got burnt earlier this year from sony while I was trying to sell my "foreign" DVD imports on eBay.. ¬__¬

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061026/ap_on_bi_ge/japan_sony_11

Yeah, Sony's profits are down, but that's partially due to the massive R & D costs for the PS3 (and the battery recall is also mentoined!). MS faced similar issues with the R & D for Xbox360... I can't even begin to imagine how much time and resources went into 360 and PS3, it's truly amazing.

As for what GUTS said: The problem with your comparison of Genny to 360 is that the Genny was a bonafide success back in the day. While I agree with you that the marketing of the 360 (i.e. emphasis on sports and more mature games for mature gamers) is similar to the strategy Sega used, MS has not been nearly as successful in employing it as Sega did. This isn't because of some failing of MS, mind you, but simply because there are many other factors that determine how successful a console will be.

And, to further build on your example, SNES somehow beat back the mighty Genny, despite the dominant position it held. I still can't believe that happened, since I thought Genny was going to rule the 16-bit era. Prior to the launch of SNES, I didn't think anything could dampen Sega's spirits. Unfortunatley, I fear that once Wii and PS3 are launched, the glimmer of hope you see for the 360 (i.e. for it to be a resounding success) will fade fainter and fainter.

Of course, I'm also messing with you . My speculation is simply my speculation . I don't take myself too seriously. Perhaps the 360 will be a much bigger contender than I have given it credit for. Perhaps this generation will be the turning point for MS (I doubt it! Just kidding.)

Ahhhhhh, I should just wait and see what happens.

As PC Gaijin said: We should dig up this thread in 2008!

[PC Gaijin]

I'm not making any predictions because I have no clue what will happen. Seriously, I am waiting until at least fall 2007 or sometime in 2008 before making a decision on what next-gen console to get. By then, prices will be down, software and hardware will be plentiful (and more reliable if history is any indication). Most importantly, by that time it should be relatively clear who is going to "win" (however you define that, whether it's marketshare or just simply the software support). As long as you have software to keep you busy until then (and I do, PS2 alone will keep me going another year) then waiting to see how things pan out is the wisest move IMO.

All that jibber-jabber aside, trying to compare current systems to past console histories never seems to pan out. Of late, the favorite comparison seems to be PS3 is N64, 360 is Dreamcast, and Wii is DS. Of course, those comparisons really reveal more about the one doing the comparison and where their loyalties lie. For all the similarities you can draw between various console launches, you can also find all sorts of differences. Take steve's point about the Genesis being an bonafide success compared to the 360's lukewarm (depending on your POV) history so far. One thing to keep in mind though (and so many people seem to forget this) is that the Genesis was not a roaring success out of the gate. It outsold the Turbo of course, but both systems were still minor players compared to the NES, which had its best year during 1990. The Genesis didn't start to build up steam until Sonic and the SNES came out. The SNES outsold Genesis that Christmas of 91, and it wasn't until 92 that the Genesis really started taking the lead. It's kind of hard to say the 360 won't be a success comparable to the Genesis when the 360 is still somewhere around 90-91 in the Genesis timeline.

[Joe Redifer]

Over at Magic Box we have to relocate to a new server because we are currently hosted by Lik-sang. Sucks.

[esteban]

It outsold the Turbo of course, but both systems were still minor players compared to the NES, which had its best year during 1990. The Genesis didn't start to build up steam until Sonic and the SNES came out. The SNES outsold Genesis that Christmas of 91, and it wasn't until 92 that the Genesis really started taking the lead. It's kind of hard to say the 360 won't be a success comparable to the Genesis when the 360 is still somewhere around 90-91 in the Genesis timeline.

Yes, my bad on all counts.

But, in defense, I was working with GUTS' scenario. In my own scenario, 360 = TG-16 and PS3 = SNES!  

[theoakwoody]

I think the Wii will be more successful than the gamecube but will still not be as popular as the 360.  The PS3 will still win this generation but not until there is a price drop and by then they won't win by much.  I see nintendo gaining ground going into the next generation and will set industry standards along the way.  Their control scheme is not a gimick and will be copied by Sony and Microsoft very soon.  Microsoft will continue to buy up gaming studios and will try to compete with Nintendos first party offerings.  Sony has had such good third party support in the past that they haven't been forced to rely on their first party games even though they have been of high quality.  If Sony can't drop the price of the PS3 within the first year of its release they will start losing 3rd party developers to the 360 and Wii.  If Sony can stand pat at their price point and produce exclusive games that will keep consumers buying their system they will succeed.  The only way anyone will buy their system is if there are must have exclusives that will force them to pay $ 600.  I am not familiar with the specs for the 360 and PS3 but I don't think there will be any games that can't be ported to both systems until maybe 3 or four years from now.  Even now almost every game on Xbox can be ported to the PS2 regardless of how much more powerful the Xbox is.  This next generation is all about exclusives and I believe Microsoft will do everything they can to have more for the 360 than Sony will have.

Nintendo is different and will make plenty of money regardless of where they place in this next generation.  They will make money on every system sold and will mile their franchises for all they are worth.  The DS will allow them to continue to take risks with the Wii which will allow them to differentiate themselves even further from the other 2 systems.  I'm interested to see if Microsoft really does try to compete in the handheld market but if they do it my squeeze out the PSP.  

What people never realize is that video games are popular enough to support more than 1 or 2 systems.  We may see other systems in the next few years that experience moderate success.  Nintendo could place 3rd in every generation for the next 50 years and they would still stick around because they are making money.  The most powerful system rarely wins anyways.  Sega Master System, Snes, N64, Xbox- all of these systems were technically superior to the Nes, Genesis, PS, and PS2 but it didn't matter.  25 years ago no one thought Atari wouldn't dominate video games and 15 years ago Nintendo was invincible.  Companies make mistakes and Sony has made there fair share as well.  Sony won't be king forever but they are for the moment so until someone else steps up they can sue whoever and sell all the defective equipment they want.

[neokellyzero]

Has anyone seen the commercial for the PS3 with the baby doll yet?  I found it disturbing-  What are your thoughts?

Also- Sony sucks-(sorry, can't control myself)

[OldRover]

The money is all in kids' computers these days anyways...V-Smile, anyone?

[TR0N]

If what you say about importing stuff being illegal in Europe is true, then Europe is a pretty messed up place (among other reasons).  This is why they are made to suffer by getting everything last.  Take that!  Ha!

Anyway if Sony would get off of their asses and just take care of the Euro market, there wouldn't be any need to import stuff now would there?  What a dumbass company.  And making things region free and then whining about people importing is just, well, hypocritical.

Agreed.

[Seldane]

Sony won't be king forever but they are for the moment so until someone else steps up they can sue whoever and sell all the defective equipment they want.

Ever heard of the Xbox 360? Yeah, that thing won't last you long. What happens when the customer's warranty expires and their system breaks down (because it will)? They'll move on to the PS3.

Besides, Microsoft is already losing massive amounts of money because of the Xbox 360 (and they're still losing money for the original Xbox), I don't think they can afford buying that many more developers.

Oh, and Sony has more money than Microsoft. They'll do the same to get all the good exclusives. And hell, they don't really need to do anything since they've already got the big boys (Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, etc).