Region Mod woes !@!#@$!@#$

[pceslayer]

Ok so I took a crack at the region mod and well lemme tell you what... Grrrrrrr!

sooo...




I ordered the IC's, made the PCB and got it all wired in!(Ignore the yellow wire... it is to be soldered to switch b4 closing (ground on pin 29))


mod on!


mod off!

ok so now here is the issue...

After about 30 seconds the screen gets all scrambled, beeps and glitches all over the place. Power off and back on a few times and eventually it just displays a white screen.

I checked my wiring to the pins and on the PCB atleast 15 times so that isn't an issue.

After about an hour of going over this crap I figured I had ruined the IC's somehow by overheating or something.

So I build a new one from scratch being very careful with the amount of heat applied to the pins of the IC. I wire it up, and it plays longer, but eventually it does the same thing!! WTF!!!

Another hour or two goes by and I cannot pinpoint the issue... So I said F*** THIS! de-soldered everything and wired the original pins back together and now the unit is back to normal stock, but works...

So my question is this... what the hell is going on?

Has anyone seen this before?

Could it possibly be my cable length? I can't think of anything else... I'm stumped...

[TheMilford]

I've never done any mods but I am an electronics tech.

Yes, you may need to (and should) shorten and tidy up your leads. if one of those leads is Ground than you may want to twist it with one of the more sensitive/signal leads to offer it some sort of rejection/shielding. Sometime shielded wire is a real problem solver... but I don't know tha circuit well enough to instruc where to use it.

Also make sure all of your solder joints are good and not "cold".

Also that red wire looks a little bulky for this aplication. I would use smaller gauge wire.

Good luck!

[pceslayer]

I will be attempting this again over the weekend with some wrapping wire I have laying around.

Hopefully the shorter wires will help 

[Duo_R]

Is that bare solder I see on the yellow wire joining 2 pieces of wire together???   
 

[pceslayer]

Is that bare solder I see on the yellow wire joining 2 pieces of wire together???   

yes thats my pin 29 ground...

I had originally had it soldered to the switch so that it would be ungrounded when in NTSC/J mode, but during testing the length to the switch was too short and it kept getting in the way.

So I desoldered from the switch and soldered the wires directly together while testing.


I made sure it didn't come into contact with anything and was only loose while the case was open.

[Duo_R]

at least cover it up with electrical tape when  you do that. Better yet get the correct length of wiring. If you show something like that we are all going to suspect a shady install..... 

[pceslayer]

at least cover it up with electrical tape when  you do that. Better yet get the correct length of wiring. If you show something like that we are all going to suspect a shady install..... 

Point taken...

The wire length is perfect enought to allow you to pry open the case partly and desolder it. It is hot glued down to the mainboard...

The image was taken right before I re-soldered it to the switch and closed the case off.

[Platinumfungi]

Has anyone seen this before?

Yep. In my experience this is a frequent problem when installing the IC based region mod on TG16 units.

I've asked around, done lots of searching, and lots of cussing to try and figure out what is going on.

This is what I can tell you:

- People I talked to that are experienced with electronics but not with the TG16 hardware said it sounded like a power based issue. Check for dry solder joints and check power related components.

- Nat (here on pcfx) also said it sounded like a power related issue. The system might have just enough to power the system itself, but when you add the ICs or a flash card (or anything that requires more juice) the system can't handle it. Check power related components and check the voltage level to see if it's really putting out +5V.

- After digging around for ages I came across some info that our old pal D-Lite mentioned "having issues" when trying to get an IC region mod of his to work in a TG16. He had to switch to using an 8PDT switch instead.

I resoldered the power related components on the TG16 units I had but found no change in the performance. I have not taken the time to check the power levels or do any further work yet. When I get a little time I will though.

So, test the voltage and check any solder around the power components.

This is an issue that is NOT well documented and I for one would love to solve this and have another "Repair Guide" sticky to add in here in the pcfx forums 

[TheMilford]

Has anyone seen this before?

Yep. In my experience this is a frequent problem when installing the IC based region mod on TG16 units.

I've asked around, done lots of searching, and lots of cussing to try and figure out what is going on.

This is what I can tell you:

- People I talked to that are experienced with electronics but not with the TG16 hardware said it sounded like a power based issue. Check for dry solder joints and check power related components.

- Nat (here on pcfx) also said it sounded like a power related issue. The system might have just enough to power the system itself, but when you add the ICs or a flash card (or anything that requires more juice) the system can't handle it. Check power related components and check the voltage level to see if it's really putting out +5V.

- After digging around for ages I came across some info that our old pal D-Lite mentioned "having issues" when trying to get an IC region mod of his to work in a TG16. He had to switch to using an 8PDT switch instead.

I resoldered the power related components on the TG16 units I had but found no change in the performance. I have not taken the time to check the power levels or do any further work yet. When I get a little time I will though.

So, test the voltage and check any solder around the power components.

This is an issue that is NOT well documented and I for one would love to solve this and have another "Repair Guide" sticky to add in here in the pcfx forums 

this was my suggested when I spoke with Dean at Multimods about the mod/board not working well in the TG16 vs. the PCE.

You might be able to get away with using an AC adapter with a higher current rating. If I had the schematic I could see where that 5vdc supply originaltes and maybe beef it up a bit (higher value caps in the PS, etc.)

shorter and sometimes shielded leads and nice solder joints can really help...

[pceslayer]

I'm using a 9v 1300mA power adapter and a SegaCD model 2 10v 1000mA adapter for testing, so power to the unit shouldn't be an issue...


If it really is a power issue, I'll just seek out a +9v and connect it there, I believe the MC14551BCP IC has a max rating of 18v.

[TheMilford]

I'm using a 9v 1300mA power adapter and a SegaCD model 2 10v 1000mA adapter for testing, so power to the unit shouldn't be an issue...


If it really is a power issue, I'll just seek out a +9v and connect it there, I believe the MC14551B IC has a max rating of 18v.

what's the current draw of the chipset in the mod board? This is pretty important.

9v should work better... it should also drive the longer leads better too.

[Duo_R]

 I see people do all this work and a simple 8PDT switch avoids the headache. Of course with a Coregrafx it is pretty tight in there.....

I'm using a 9v 1300mA power adapter and a SegaCD model 2 10v 1000mA adapter for testing, so power to the unit shouldn't be an issue...


If it really is a power issue, I'll just seek out a +9v and connect it there, I believe the MC14551BCP IC has a max rating of 18v.

[pceslayer]

what's the current draw of the chipset in the mod board? This is pretty important.

9v should work better... it should also drive the longer leads better too.

havent measured that yet... will let you know.
*EDIT*
If i'm reading the data sheet correctly, it uses whatever you supply to it.
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/on_semiconductor/MC14551B-D.PDF

I see people do all this work and a simple 8PDT switch avoids the headache. Of course with a Coregrafx it is pretty tight in there.....

I usually do everything the hard way first just to learn it.

[Duo_R]

measure how much amperage this little IC is pulling from the system. The other thing I hear is when this mod is docked with a CD unit it also fails (again sounds like amperage issue).

[pceslayer]

ok just measured the voltage and it uses whatever is supplied to it.

on the Mainboard the only place to tap it @ 9v+ is right where the power comes in, anything else is stepped down to 5v.


I shortened the cables and even found alternate 5V on the board and am still hitting the same issues.

I still get the same issue when running the chip @9v or above... WTF!?

I get .02 amps when pulling from th 9v

[Duo_R]

haha I go the opposite, easiest first (learn the basics) then on to the advanced. If I try to take on something too big and it fails that just frustrates me VS smaller victories building up to the bigger ones.

So your chip is pulling .02 amps, and how much amps is your system pulling (although I find it hard to believe it is making all the amperage and not leaving enough for your low amperage IC.

I usually do everything the hard way first just to learn it.

[pceslayer]

haha I go the opposite, easiest first (learn the basics) then on to the advanced. If I try to take on something too big and it fails that just frustrates me VS smaller victories building up to the bigger ones.

So your chip is pulling .02 amps, and how much amps is your system pulling (although I find it hard to believe it is making all the amperage and not leaving enough for your low amperage IC.

I measured the amperage @ the fuse and it was pulling .20 Amps (with no game)

[pceslayer]

so something great just happened   

The ribbon cable became disconnected from the mainboard!

With no easy way to reattatch it, I guess its time to rewire this damn thing.

atleast its only 42 wires 

[SignOfZeta]

I installed one of these on a Duo R and haven't had any problems at all despite using really thick wire in generous quantities. I got my chip from D Lite before the big melt down. I'm not sure if this chip was from the same batch as yours. I don't know where it came from.

If the game just glitches after running for a while, and you didn't bump the system or anything, then yeah it really does sound like an issue with power or ground to the chip.

I would be suspicious of your power supply. The Sega CD one in particular is hella old. If possible, trying monitoring the voltage to the chip as the game freezes up. It may be dropping voltage as the transformer heats up.

[pceslayer]

I made mine myself...

If I can't get it to work in the next few days, I guess I'll just go grab my TG16 out of storage and use 2 systems.

[Duo_R]

yeah you won't find a pre-made one anymore. But honestly, you did all this work, why not region switch with an 8pdt? I mean you have all your data wires ready. You just wire and be done. The problem though is the holes you already drilled, but if you backout now the situation won't be much better (a useless switch).

I made mine myself...

If I can't get it to work in the next few days, I guess I'll just go grab my TG16 out of storage and use 2 systems.

[Duo_R]

I take that back, I just noticed on pcenginesales website that she installs region switch chips in the UK. Perhaps she can sell one to you. That would be your best bet for the small PC Engine, especially since you already installed your switch for it.

[pceslayer]

I take that back, I just noticed on pcenginesales website that she installs region switch chips in the UK. Perhaps she can sell one to you. That would be your best bet for the small PC Engine, especially since you already installed your switch for it.

I don't know if I want to attempt another PCB mod. 

I'd consider a pushpin or slider switch.... Now that there isnt 2 thick ass grey ribbon cables in there, either method would work for me.

Question though... how would I have to mount that pushpin inside of the unit? epoxy to the case?? or is there a way to mount it properly?


Also I'll post pics of my fix in the other thread I have... nothing fancy... just a ton of wires.

Have a bit more room inside though!

[Duo_R]

the slider switches are no where to be found. However the push buttons are still available but no epoxy needed since they are threaded and can be mounted with a simple screw cap. I can send u photos later. They are just a little bigger size than the older switches I used to use. You need about 2 1/2 inches of clearance directly behind where u install.

[pceslayer]

I deff have the clearance now

I'm guessing that screwcap is seperate...?

Linky!

[Duo_R]

Get the switch here:

http://www.surplussales.com/switches/SWPushB-1.html

this is what it looks like, you need to get screw caps (separate) to thread on though.



PM me if you want more pictures, etc.

I deff have the clearance now

I'm guessing that screwcap is seperate...?

Linky!

[Duo_R]

also check the web page in my signature, you will find instructions on how you will want to wire this baby up. I still need to update the guide.

[pceslayer]

Thanks alot Duo!

Is the screw cap the button guard that they offer on the same site?

Could you post a external pic of the switch installed?

[PCEngineSales]

I have NEVER had this happen.

What is the exact number on the chips being used?

Also (though should mean nothing) I don't use any board to mount my ICs on. I keep my mods cheap because well, people are cheap and I can't get good money for mods. I solder both ICs together then glue them to the bottom of the board for the HuCARD port.

I use a simple two way switch like yours and very thin wire.

I use a third party 1000mA PSU.

I draw +5 voltage from the + end of the 10uF capacitor on the HuCARD port board (this part should mean nothing however.)

Every single PCE I've modded in this way is also modded for RGB with a full amp circuit. The amp is placed in between the ribbon cable. I don't use a board for that either!

I've modded like twenty of these for customers this year and not a single one has reported an issue.

Now occassionally I do get an interference issue on first screwing a unit together, this is solved by unscrewing, moving wires, moving the amp. I don't understand why these issues would be considered so common as to resort to that enormous switch. Might look OK on a Duo but it's not good on a Core. I see you put a hole in the Core for your IC mod switch, which is the sam place I've put it in the past. The only feasible place really for the 8PDT switch to go in a Core is behind the AV out with the switch sticking out the back (but not too far to plug in a CD ROM unit.) And all the consoles I've seen modded this way had had that config. Plus you can't use the existing hole for a switch in a white engine if you use the 8PDT. Nor can you engineer a switchless mod.

You know what I'm guessing this issue is? The more stuff you cram into a console the more likely you get interference. The less space in the unit, the more squashed it gets when you screw it together. So you keep the parts to a minimum. I don't use the prototyping board. I'd rather glue IC components to existing board then solder onto the legs of the ICs. Keep the wire thin and short. But not too short it can catch and be pulled undone on something.

Here's another issue. The Core Grafx has a metal plate in the casing above the port. I had modded 5 white engines using IC mod before I tried a Core and I short circuited the unit. I didn't take note of the metal plate. The blobs of solder you apply can end up touching that plate. If you bend back the pins in the HuCARD port to do the mod, they DEFINITELY will touch that plate. It won;t damage your console to plain remove the plate (apply heat to where it has been literally applied by melting the plastic casing, melt it off.) Or if you prefer, seeing as that plate is added to prevent interference you can simply cover the mod up with tape.

I think if you made your mod like mine, ie don't use prototyping board, use the same socket mount ICs I do, glue ICs under the HuCARD port, use thin wire, draw +5V from where that capacitor is soldered, you would not have power or interference issues. The only issues you would have would be related to wiring the mod wrong, which is easy enough to do and you'd notice it right away anyway.

Your other problem here is, you are modding a console that's been fixed before. And the crack you had was all around the power in port. You could have some damaged components there which are causing a loss of power and could be affecting this mod.

[pceslayer]

@pcenginesales

the chips are MC14551BCP

Can you show a pic of what how you solder the IC's together?

Is it simply bending the legs and stacking them?

[Duo_R]

same chip mmonkey uses

http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/console/pce/region.htm

[PCEngineSales]

Well, you are using the same version of the chip for a start.

I'll try to get a picture. But basically yeah, I stack them. Solder the common pins together, the +5V, ground and control pins. Then you wire it all up like the schematic, forgetting the prototyping board.

Then you glue the chips to the underside of the HuCARD pcb on the right side. The rest is exactly like the mod you've already installed.

IF you are going for the neatest looking mod, you can even prewire some 16 pin IC mounts, glue those onto the bottom board and stick the chips in afterwards. I don't see much need for the prototyping board in this case as the circuit is so simple. You're not even adding anything to the circuit but these chips. All circuitry is self contained in the chip and the mod uses lots of wires whether you use the board or not.

I really don't think you could have damaged the chips. If they work from the start, then they work.


But you probably want to replace your power supply too or at least test it after running it for a bit.

Im just really surprised to hear of this issue. I thought everyone here did the IC based mod, the chips are probably easier to get hold of than the huge switch.

And for the Core, when I get a free moment I am going to try to install a switchless mod. Which will of course be IC only.

[TheMilford]

And for the Core, when I get a free moment I am going to try to install a switchless mod. Which will of course be IC only.

Does this mean that it will sense which huCard is inserted and switch itself?

[PCEngineSales]

And for the Core, when I get a free moment I am going to try to install a switchless mod. Which will of course be IC only.

Does this mean that it will sense which huCard is inserted and switch itself?

I'm not sure how I would do that. Would have to research how the console identifies the card region, which it obviously does re: a US card won't work on JP PCE without connecting a certain pin to ground. So it knows the cartridges are US region, and it's not just a simple case of pin config swapping.

But it would be a lot of work and I'm not sure it's possible/worth time taken.

I was thinking more along the lines of those mods for other consoles where you hold down combinations of buttons to set the region. I don;t know if the PCE can do it, you'd have to reset the console somehow as well.

It requires looking into and I have no bleeding time atm what with 5 billion SCART cables to make.

[Duo_R]

or does it measure the increase in heart rate when you play an import title and determines region?  

[Duo_R]

not going to be able to do a mod on the IC's detecting region and switching. I do believe this is possible on a Genesis however.

[PCEngineSales]

not going to be able to do a mod on the IC's detecting region and switching. I do believe this is possible on a Genesis however.

Possible to somehow force a hardware reset though, a recheck of the card while the system is on? THe engine's natural reset is of course no good because it just reboots the HuCARD. And that reset I'm pretty sure is programmed into each HuCARD and not a hardware thing. Oh well. If it's not possible it's a shame because I hate making holes in Cores.

[Platinumfungi]

Just for info/potential research - I'm not sure about any NEC switchless mods, but these guys sure have a list of switchless mods building up:
http://www.consolepassion.co.uk/modification-switchless.htm

[pceslayer]

I'll attempt to sort out my current issue with interference on my Core over the weekend and I think I'll attempt this one more time.

This time I'll try stacking the chips and tapping them directly into the HU-PCB wiring instead of tapping the pins.

[papa_november]

m the + end of the 10uF capacitor on the HuCARD port board (this part should mean nothing however.)

Every single PCE I've modded in this way is also modded for RGB with a full amp circuit. The amp is placed in between the ribbon cable. I don't use a board for that either!

Wait- are you really using the full circuit, or are you using this simpler circuit? Because that thing's becoming a nightmare to wire up even with perfboard and I'm thinking of trying the simpler one.

[PCEngineSales]

m the + end of the 10uF capacitor on the HuCARD port board (this part should mean nothing however.)

Every single PCE I've modded in this way is also modded for RGB with a full amp circuit. The amp is placed in between the ribbon cable. I don't use a board for that either!

    Wait- are you really using the full circuit, or are you using this simpler circuit? Because that thing's becoming a nightmare to wire up even with perfboard and I'm thinking of trying the simpler one.

Full circuit.

I have this crazy obsession with designing configurations for mods crammed inside of cables and stuff and my mod design for pce I figured fit nicely flat in between the ribbon cable. The perfboard isn't cheap when you don't get a lot of orders so I keep my PCE mods down to minimal parts, most of which I use in other stuff.

Now I made this weird mod config that my family says looks like a windcatcher or something and my fiance says looks "retarded." IMO it is also way less ime consuming to wire up than perfboard. No linking all those contacts on the bottom of the board. As an alternative I cram all the parts inside of the SCART cable.

I have a pic of the SCART variant, I'll show you.



Hard to not get interference there but I cracked it.

There is, of course tape/heatshrink around the components in the DIN once it goes together, this is just to demonstrate how they go into the DIN.

I got some glue on that resistor in the DIN, it's accidental but I couldn't be bothered wiping it off and let it just set that way. TBH resistor needn't even be there, I was messing around with variants on the mod.

I will probably pour glue inside of that DIN in future as if you squish it, the legs on the caps could touch. Now it's hard to add heatshrink to 100% prevent that, and the DINs aren't as solid as a SCART plug. I sent one of these cables to Duo-R sans any glue as if it gets squished I'm sure he can fix that. And this is the amp in cable I am going to sell if anyone is interested.

I want to try to cram an AD724 s-video circuit inside of a SCART cable too, I am going to try.

[PCEngineSales]

I'll attempt to sort out my current issue with interference on my Core over the weekend and I think I'll attempt this one more time.

This time I'll try stacking the chips and tapping them directly into the HU-PCB wiring instead of tapping the pins.

I tend to do mine half and half, all the PCB connections are wired to the bottom of the board, chips glued there then the pin connections go round the board and are soldered up to the pins on the connector. Then I put glue on the connector as the cut pins could end up pushed out over time.

[BlackandBlue]

I am acquiring a CGII that I am going to region mod when it comes in.  First, thanks for this thread, awesome information...

And for the Core, when I get a free moment I am going to try to install a switchless mod. Which will of course be IC only.

This interests me, since I really, really hate cutting holes in anything (I am like this with my car and customers cars when I use to install).  Instead of auto-sensing, which would be the best choice, is there a way to maybe use a magnetic reed switch instead of a standard SPDT switch?  Not sure if it is strong enough to go through the plastic of the console.  Perhaps use a stronger magnet and place some metal around the reed so it sticks to the outside of the console?

[PCEngineSales]

I am acquiring a CGII that I am going to region mod when it comes in.  First, thanks for this thread, awesome information...

And for the Core, when I get a free moment I am going to try to install a switchless mod. Which will of course be IC only.

This interests me, since I really, really hate cutting holes in anything (I am like this with my car and customers cars when I use to install).  Instead of auto-sensing, which would be the best choice, is there a way to maybe use a magnetic reed switch instead of a standard SPDT switch?  Not sure if it is strong enough to go through the plastic of the console.  Perhaps use a stronger magnet and place some metal around the reed so it sticks to the outside of the console?

Hi,

It's possible to put most any kind of wireless switch in a console, though I don't like putting magnets near electronics (I'm not too au fait with any damage that could occur, I just don't like the idea.) If you know something about such switches you would know better than I.

There is another thing you can do though. If you are keen on an RGB or S-video mod, you can use unused pins on the cable to add the switch for the region mod to the actual cable.

Say if you disconnect the ground wire on the 8 pin din, use the ground from the shield for the plug instead, that leaves you with a free pin for the terminal on the switch. The +5 and ground for the outer poles are already in the cable.

Now SCART plugs can come complete with switches for video/RGB, you can reroute those to the mod. But it's annoying because the SCART is then around the back of a TV. If you are using a video converter though, you probably have better access to the switch.

Or you can put the switch on the DIN. You would probably have to cut shielding down (annoying) and make a square hole in DIN, gluing this in place.

Or you could put the switch in a small project box on the cable. Some project boxes may even come with built in switches.