Home Entertainment System Upgrade Questions

Started by Paisa49, 12/30/2008, 04:39 PM

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Paisa49

I'm thinking of upgrading my home theater system to really take advantage of high definition. I'm debating whether I should purchase a PS 3 or I should just get a blueray player. I know the PS 3 really doesn't have that many games for it yet, and I also like the fact that I can get a Roku Netflix box to stream movies in HD. How do those of you with a PS 3 feel about it as an investment?

Thanks,

NecroPhile

If I were interested in jumping into Blu-ray, I wouldn't hesitate to go with a PS3.  I'd hate to spend $200-300 on a low end player when a few more dimes would get me a machine that'll be easy to upgrade with new profiles and will let me play games, surf the web, stream tunes and videos, etc.
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Turbo D

I received a ps3 as a gift in 2007 and am very happy with it. Like NecroPhile said, it is probably the best deal of any blu-ray players out there. Not only is the firmware easily upgraded, you can play all the great playstation games of today and the past! I would recommend you to get the 60gb ps3 if you do get one as it has the most features. The Hdd is upgradable anyways as long as you use a 2.5" sata laptop Hdd. So, if you wanted, you could have a 320 gb ps3. lol. But ya, that Netflix streaming thing sounds good too. All in all, it is up to your personal preference. The fact that I can play psx and ps2 games on the ps3 is enough for me. I beat Raiden 3 on it last night!  8)
Quote from: MissaFX on 01/06/2008, 12:10 PMMy idea of gaming is a couple of friends over, a couple of drinks, a couple of medical-handrolled-game-enhancing-cigs and a glowing box you all worship.
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Joe Redifer

I also recommend the PS3.  It is a fantastic Blu-ray player and most movies are usually tested on it for compatibility before release.  There are lots of Blu-ray players that won't even play every disc.  The PS3 can.  PS3 rules... at least as a Blu-ray player.  As a game machine it is pretty good as well.  There are plenty of what I would consider "must-haves" like Uncharted and Little Big Planet.  Many/most games are in 7.1 surround as well.  The Xbox 360 can't even do that.

Duo_R

ok I went the PS3 route as many suggested. Here is the big con on a PS3 in an entertainment center - it get's very hot and the fans start sounding like an mini air conditioning unit. People then just say to leave outside the entertainment center, but with kids I didn't like that setup. Just be aware that inside most entertainment centers (that close) this things gets very loud (not as bad as 360 but enough to be annoying).

2nd con - the remote will only control the PS3, so you have to have another remote lying around. The alternative is to hunt down a PS2 remote with Dongle, then programming a learning remote to mimic commands, then you have a nice setup.
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nat

I got a Sony Bluray player about a month or two ago and I'm extremely happy with it. It's basically a PS3 with the PS3 functionality removed, leaving only the Bluray capabilities. Even the onscreen interface is identical to the PS3. It cost $249, is really quick, and very quiet.

Duo_R

Nat, which one did u get? Is it Profile 2.0 capable?

Quote from: nat on 12/31/2008, 12:19 AMI got a Sony Bluray player about a month or two ago and I'm extremely happy with it. It's basically a PS3 with the PS3 functionality removed, leaving only the Bluray capabilities. Even the onscreen interface is identical to the PS3. It cost $249, is really quick, and very quiet.
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Joe Redifer

My PS3 doesn't make any loud fan noise, and it is inside an entertainment center.  My friend's PS3 does get loud, though.

Duo_R

How well ventilated is your entertainment center? With the door closed I find that even with the holes for wiring in the back and even at the top of the entertainment center it does not provide enough circulation and the PS3 kicks on the high speed setting of the fan after about 30 minutes. To avoid I have to leave the entertainment door open, but it isn't very ideal. I am thinking of installing fans to better circulate fans to prevent this. But it is a little bit of an annoyance because no other media unit that I use (that isn't gaming) does not have this issue.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 12/31/2008, 12:53 AMMy PS3 doesn't make any loud fan noise, and it is inside an entertainment center.  My friend's PS3 does get loud, though.
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Turbo D

Maybe you should try the Ntercooler from Nyko or whoever. I haven't tried it myself, but it may help (Or it may just make even more noise, lol.) Have you dudes ever seen the inside of the ps3? It looks like a ps2's mobo outfitted with a ginourmous heatsink and fan! With out that giant heatsink/fan, the ps3 would be much thinner (maybe even as thin as a ps2 slim.) However, It would probably melt without it. lol. Someone should watercool their ps3, I know its not uncommon with the 360. :)
Quote from: MissaFX on 01/06/2008, 12:10 PMMy idea of gaming is a couple of friends over, a couple of drinks, a couple of medical-handrolled-game-enhancing-cigs and a glowing box you all worship.
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NecroPhile

Quote from: turbo D on 12/30/2008, 07:20 PMNot only is the firmware easily upgraded, you can play all the great playstation games of today and the past!
But sadly no support for PS2 games anymore.  Screw you, Sony!
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Paisa49

Overall, everyone seems very satisfied with their investment in their PS3. Now, since I primarily want to use it as a blueray player, I'm thinking of getting a refurbished 40 gb, as that seems to be the most cost-effective route.

Joe Redifer

I have way too many wires in my setup, so I have removed the backs of the sound racks.  Before it was just a piece of plywood or whatnot with a small hole for wires.  Sucked ass.  On the front there are glass doors which are usually closed.  The PS3 does not have a lot of space around it, and it sits on top of my PS2 with about a half an inch of clearance to the shelf above it.  My friend's PS3 has A LOT more air space around it.

Duo_R

I have thought of that Turbo D, but everything I have ever heard of these "intercoolers" is they completely suck. The guys at Gamestop and other stores say they are a complete waste of money, but then again I wouldn't trust most of those guys have to say (there are some exceptions though).

Quote from: turbo D on 12/31/2008, 05:09 AMMaybe you should try the Ntercooler from Nyko or whoever. I haven't tried it myself, but it may help (Or it may just make even more noise, lol.) Have you dudes ever seen the inside of the ps3? It looks like a ps2's mobo outfitted with a ginourmous heatsink and fan! With out that giant heatsink/fan, the ps3 would be much thinner (maybe even as thin as a ps2 slim.) However, It would probably melt without it. lol. Someone should watercool their ps3, I know its not uncommon with the 360. :)
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Joe Redifer

Look at it this way... if they really knew their shit, they wouldn't be working at friggin' Gamestop.

But I agree, those intercollers are not the best solution.

Ceti Alpha

If you're interested in only upgrading your home theatre system I don't see how a PS3 is a good option. Maybe when the PS3 first came out the BluRay was a selling point, but you can buy a BluRay player for dirt cheap now. The PS3 seems to be doing everything they can to put themselves out of business - next to no exclusive software and a massive price point. It's not even a good media tank. If you are only looking to upgrade your home theatre, just buy a Bluray player and skip the overpriced PS3.
IMG
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Duo_R

I bought the last wave of PS2 compatible PS3 80GB's (Metal Gear Solid). It wasn't a bad deal because I got a $100 gift card just for purchasing. But now that none of them are backward compatible, I can't really argue with Ceti's point here. I would honestly have picked up a solid stand alone player because I primarily use this system for watching movies. The multi-media aspect is cool, but I am probably part of a very small percentage that does that crap with their PS3 (stream movies to the system).

Quote from: ceti alpha on 01/01/2009, 05:40 AMIf you're interested in only upgrading your home theatre system I don't see how a PS3 is a good option. Maybe when the PS3 first came out the BluRay was a selling point, but you can buy a BluRay player for dirt cheap now. The PS3 seems to be doing everything they can to put themselves out of business - next to no exclusive software and a massive price point. It's not even a good media tank. If you are only looking to upgrade your home theatre, just buy a Bluray player and skip the overpriced PS3.
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Ceti Alpha

Don't get me wrong, virtually every peice of A/V gear, from my LCD TV to my speakers, are Sony. Hell, even my USB flash drive is Sony. I'd consider buying a PS3 if it wasn't so expensive. I'd be willing to pay a little extra for BluRay player with extra features. I just don't get Microsoft and Sony. They build these machines that are capable of streaming in HD but fail to tell anyone about it. They've lost focus on what they're doing now, which is one of the main reasons why Nintendo is walking all over them in sales.
IMG
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Turbo D

My ps3 has the emotion engine, so it is still backwards compatible with both psx and ps2. I wasn't even aware that the other versions lost this feature. Was the feature lost with the newer firmware updates?
Quote from: MissaFX on 01/06/2008, 12:10 PMMy idea of gaming is a couple of friends over, a couple of drinks, a couple of medical-handrolled-game-enhancing-cigs and a glowing box you all worship.
IMG IMG
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Duo_R

it is not just software, there is hardware missing that prevents PS2 playback. First they removed the emotion engine and used software emulation to play PS2 (like the one I have). Then they removed the extra hardware that was being utilized to emulate, so not a good chance PS2 playback is coming back anytime soon....

Quote from: turbo D on 01/01/2009, 07:21 PMMy ps3 has the emotion engine, so it is still backwards compatible with both psx and ps2. I wasn't even aware that the other versions lost this feature. Was the feature lost with the newer firmware updates?
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nat

Quote from: Duo_R on 12/31/2008, 12:40 AMNat, which one did u get? Is it Profile 2.0 capable?

Quote from: nat on 12/31/2008, 12:19 AMI got a Sony Bluray player about a month or two ago and I'm extremely happy with it. It's basically a PS3 with the PS3 functionality removed, leaving only the Bluray capabilities. Even the onscreen interface is identical to the PS3. It cost $249, is really quick, and very quiet.
The one I got is the Sony BDP-S350. Yes, it's Profile 2.0 capable. Click the link there for CNET's review.

It really is a fantastic player, and I highly recommend it to everyone.

Ceti Alpha

#21
Quote from: nat on 01/01/2009, 10:23 PM
Quote from: Duo_R on 12/31/2008, 12:40 AMNat, which one did u get? Is it Profile 2.0 capable?

Quote from: nat on 12/31/2008, 12:19 AMI got a Sony Bluray player about a month or two ago and I'm extremely happy with it. It's basically a PS3 with the PS3 functionality removed, leaving only the Bluray capabilities. Even the onscreen interface is identical to the PS3. It cost $249, is really quick, and very quiet.
The one I got is the Sony BDP-S350. Yes, it's Profile 2.0 capable. Click the link there for CNET's review.

It really is a fantastic player, and I highly recommend it to everyone.
That's pretty sexy nat.  =P~

I just got one of these over Christmas. It's an excellent media tank that plays virtually every file and format. The Popcorn Hour streams HD wirelessly very smoothly and has great internet channel services, so you can watch Youtube and podcasts and stuff. One of the first things I watched to test it out was Aaron's NEC tributes. They looked so awesome on the big screen.  :mrgreen:

I totally recommend the Popcorn Hour with the USB WiFi adapter. I got it bundled with a 500GB HDD as well.

http://www.popcornhour.com/onlinestore/

Edit: I just watched the video review of that bluray player. I love the face plate. So nice, but I noticed it won't do DTS audio. I'm having DTS issues with my Popcorn Hour right now actually. It's supposed to be able to play it, but it's not for me at the moment. I think my receiver/amp isn't HDMI compatible.
IMG
"Let the CAW and Mystery of a Journey Unlike Any Other Begin"

Joe Redifer

I'd only balk at the PS3's price if I were poor.

MotherGunner

If you want Blu-Ray and upscaled DVD go with PS3.  The fact that you connect online with it gurantees firmware updates not only system but Blu-Ray Media-Side as well.

Keep in mind though that while you will get 1080p out of all Blu-Rays, most PS3 games only output to 720p.  A real dissappointed considering Xbox 360 upscales everything to 1080p regardless if its native or not.
-MG

SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM (If you want peace, Prepare for war)
SI VIS BELLUM, PARA MATRIMONIUM (If you want war, Prepare for marriage)

Joe Redifer


MotherGunner

To me its better.  And that's all that matters.
-MG

SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM (If you want peace, Prepare for war)
SI VIS BELLUM, PARA MATRIMONIUM (If you want war, Prepare for marriage)

Paisa49

Quote from: MotherGunner on 01/02/2009, 01:51 AMIf you want Blu-Ray and upscaled DVD go with PS3.  The fact that you connect online with it gurantees firmware updates not only system but Blu-Ray Media-Side as well.

Keep in mind though that while you will get 1080p out of all Blu-Rays, most PS3 games only output to 720p.  A real dissappointed considering Xbox 360 upscales everything to 1080p regardless if its native or not.
MG makes a good point. The way I've rationalized this potential purchase is the following. I'll have to put down about $250.00 for a good blue ray player. Why not spend a little more for a blue ray player that I can connect to online for firmware updates and happens to play video games? I'm thinking of going with either a used or refurbished PS3 now. I'll be combing Craigslist for bargains.

Ceti Alpha

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 01/02/2009, 01:46 AMI'd only balk at the PS3's price if I were poor.
Didn't see that comment coming.  :roll:
IMG
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Duo_R

nice find. I got a PS3 80GB and a BDP-S301. BDP-S301 is not a great Blu-Ray, but as a Christmas gift and a 2nd player I am satisfied. Not 2.0 capable, but the PS3 can do that for me. The good thing is the BDP-S301 doesn't sound like an air conditioner after watching a movie in the entertainment center for over 30 minutes with the doors closed....  :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:

Quote from: nat on 01/01/2009, 10:23 PM
Quote from: Duo_R on 12/31/2008, 12:40 AMNat, which one did u get? Is it Profile 2.0 capable?

Quote from: nat on 12/31/2008, 12:19 AMI got a Sony Bluray player about a month or two ago and I'm extremely happy with it. It's basically a PS3 with the PS3 functionality removed, leaving only the Bluray capabilities. Even the onscreen interface is identical to the PS3. It cost $249, is really quick, and very quiet.
The one I got is the Sony BDP-S350. Yes, it's Profile 2.0 capable. Click the link there for CNET's review.

It really is a fantastic player, and I highly recommend it to everyone.
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nat

Quote from: MotherGunner on 01/02/2009, 01:51 AMIf you want Blu-Ray and upscaled DVD go with PS3.  The fact that you connect online with it gurantees firmware updates not only system but Blu-Ray Media-Side as well.
The BDP-S350 will connect online as well.

Quote from: ceti alpha on 01/02/2009, 12:41 AMEdit: I just watched the video review of that bluray player. I love the face plate. So nice, but I noticed it won't do DTS audio.
You're right. Absolutely the ONLY drawback with the S350 is that it won't do DTS audio. Since I still don't even fully understand what that is, I probably don't need it. :)

Quote from: Duo_R on 01/02/2009, 04:46 PMnice find. I got a PS3 80GB and a BDP-S301. BDP-S301 is not a great Blu-Ray, but as a Christmas gift and a 2nd player I am satisfied. Not 2.0 capable, but the PS3 can do that for me. The good thing is the BDP-S301 doesn't sound like an air conditioner after watching a movie in the entertainment center for over 30 minutes with the doors closed....  :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:
After I already bought the S350 I read up a little on the S301 and it sounds to me like the 350 is everything the 301 should have been. I really think as of now the 350 is the best quality-for-your-money for those who want a great 2.0-capable Bluray player and don't give a flying fuck about the PS3.

Joe Redifer

You should exchange your PS3 for a different one.  There is clearly something wrong with it.

Also, why does anyone care about BD Live?  it is a joke and completely useless.  Just as long as the movie loads and plays, all is good.

guyjin

all this profile business makes buying the right blu-ray player more complicated than buying the right PC-Engine/Turbografx setup.  [-(

Duo_R

#32
You think so? Do you have a snap of your entertainment center? Everyone I talk to says they leave the PS3 outside the entertainment console for the same reason.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 01/02/2009, 07:58 PMYou should exchange your PS3 for a different one.  There is clearly something wrong with it.

Also, why does anyone care about BD Live?  it is a joke and completely useless.  Just as long as the movie loads and plays, all is good.
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Joe Redifer

#33
Mine (dust exaggerated due to the camera flash):

IMG

Yours is only the second PS3 I've ever heard of with a loud fan.  My friend's does it after about an hour and only on games, but never BDs.  If it were a widespread issue, I'd be reading about it all over the place.

Also, I have heard the latest Sony BD player still has issues with certain discs and will not play them.  I have not personally researched this, but it's what I've heard.  PS3 is compatible with ALL BDs.  I'm jus' sayin'.

nat

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 01/03/2009, 12:23 AMAlso, I have heard the latest Sony BD player still has issues with certain discs and will not play them.  I have not personally researched this, but it's what I've heard.  PS3 is compatible with ALL BDs.  I'm jus' sayin'.
I'll be quite upset if I come across a disc that doesn't play, but you'll be the first to know. Well, first after Sony.

BTW, it's shocking to see your Dreamcast is still that white.  Mine has gone the way of my SNES. I guess I should have bought a black one.

Ceti Alpha

Quote from: nat on 01/02/2009, 07:50 PMYou're right. Absolutely the ONLY drawback with the S350 is that it won't do DTS audio. Since I still don't even fully understand what that is, I probably don't need it. :)
It's not a big deal. It's an alternative to Dolby Surround. It's been around since laserdisc. Some say that it's better than Dolby Surround, but who knows. It only became an issue for me when I got the Popcorn Hour, but all I had to do was switch the settings and all was good. Apparently the PCH can actually play DTS, so I think it has more to do with my receiver. It's definitely nothing to worry about. If/when I get a bluray player, it will most likely be that slick machine you got.  :mrgreen:
IMG
"Let the CAW and Mystery of a Journey Unlike Any Other Begin"

Joe Redifer

#36
On Blu-ray, there are 3 different sound formats that are common.  They all have the ability to kick ass.  Let us review:

Dolby Digital / Dolby TrueHD -
Dolby Digital (or AC3 as it is sometimes known) was first used in movie theaters on the movie Batman Returns.  Dolby Digital is still used in movie theaters today, running at 320kbps for all 5.1 channels combined.  These same 5.1 channels are available on LaserDisc (at 384kbps) and DVD (usually at 384kbps but can go as high as 448.  Blu-ray tops this out at 640kbps for slightly better sound quality.

Dolby Digital Plus was mainly used in HD DVD where space was limited due to HD DVD sucking donkey balls compared to Blu-ray.  It uses even higher bitrates and can encode up to 7.1 discrete channels.  You'll rarely ever see this on a Blu-ray movie as there really is no reason for it to exist with TrueHD around.

Dolby TrueHD is a lossless compressed format.  That means that it is compressed, but when uncompressed, the sound is the same as the original file before it was compressed.  It can encode 8 discrete channels (or more) at bitrates around 18 megabits per second.  That's over twice the video bitrate of DVD alone.  Usually the sample rate is 24-bit, 48000Hz (CD quality is 16-bit 44100Hz), so Dolby TrueHD is a higher resolution audio format.  If you do not have a receiver capable of this, DolbyTrueHD will "core down" into the regular lossy Dolby Digital automatically so you can enjoy the same 5.1 Dolby Digital you always have.  This type of sound requires an HDMI connection.  The PS3 decodes this and sends it out to the receiver as raw PCM whereas other players can "bitstream" it meaning the receiver does the decoding.  Bitstreaming is preferred being that the receiver will likely have a better decoder than the player.

DTS / DTS HD Master Audio (DTS HDMA) -
Similar in concept to Dolby Digital, DTS was first used theatrically on Jurassic Park.  It then worked its way into the home market on LaserDisc and DVD at slightly higher bitrates than its theatrical counterpart.  The bit rates are usually higher than the comparable Dolby Digital format.  DTS tracks also seem to be recorded louder, and most peoeple seem to think that louder = better.  All it really means is that the source file the DTS track was encoded from was louder than the source track that the Dolby Digital was encoded from.  Since I have done a lot of sound mixing myself and encoded both Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS 5.1 from the same master track, I can tell you that there isn't a ton of appreciable difference between the two formats, though DTS is a bit better.  DTS is not supported by as many receivers.  DTS HDMA is the same concept as DolbyTrueHD, that is lossless compression and also "cores down" into regular DTS for people who do not have a fancy receiver.  It usually uses the same 24/48 resolution as TrueHD, but the Blu-ray of Baraka has a resolution of 24-bit, 96000Hz which is twice that of most BDs.  Can be up to 8 discrete channels.  The PS3 decodes this and sends it out as PCM while other players can bitstream it.

PCM -
Raw, uncompressed sound.  Like Dolby TrueHD and DTSHDMA, it is usually at the 24-bit 48000Hz resolution.  Like the others, this is HDMI only.  It can go up to 8 channels or more and 24-bit, 192000Hz.  Very bandwidth intensive.

Duo_R

the firmware updates keep the disc compatability. Even my outdated '301 still gets firmware updates from Sony, I think the unit Nat owns is going to be fine for all movies going forward. I read mine had some issues, but with the latest firmware it isn't an issue. Again, the PS3 argument is a little weak when the stand alone players can also get updates...

Quote from: nat on 01/03/2009, 12:51 AM
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 01/03/2009, 12:23 AMAlso, I have heard the latest Sony BD player still has issues with certain discs and will not play them.  I have not personally researched this, but it's what I've heard.  PS3 is compatible with ALL BDs.  I'm jus' sayin'.
I'll be quite upset if I come across a disc that doesn't play, but you'll be the first to know. Well, first after Sony.

BTW, it's shocking to see your Dreamcast is still that white.  Mine has gone the way of my SNES. I guess I should have bought a black one.
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Turbo D

Can stand alone players play BD-J off of portable media? My ps3 does! 8)
Quote from: MissaFX on 01/06/2008, 12:10 PMMy idea of gaming is a couple of friends over, a couple of drinks, a couple of medical-handrolled-game-enhancing-cigs and a glowing box you all worship.
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Duo_R

What is BD-J? I do like the ability to stream media and play videos that I download. TVersity is a Godsend for streaming to your PS3 (and Xbox 360).

Quote from: turbo D on 01/03/2009, 03:25 AMCan stand alone players play BD-J off of portable media? My ps3 does! 8)
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Turbo D

That would be Blu-ray disc Java! Its a cool language that lets you run java apps. Right now there is a primitive nes emulator for bd-j, runs pretty good but is missing sound. I'm pretty sure the stand alones support the feature, but I didn't see it on the sonystyle description of them. I haven't really researched them since I have the ps3 already. Its no big deal breaker though, heh.
Quote from: MissaFX on 01/06/2008, 12:10 PMMy idea of gaming is a couple of friends over, a couple of drinks, a couple of medical-handrolled-game-enhancing-cigs and a glowing box you all worship.
IMG IMG
IMG

NecroPhile

Quote from: turbo D on 01/03/2009, 03:25 AMCan stand alone players play BD-J off of portable media? My ps3 does! 8)
Many do, such as nat's BDP-S350, though it's obviously less powerful and consequently a bit slower.  It's also slower to power up and boot encrypted discs; is incapable of slow motion, frame advance, and zoom; lacks gigabit and wireless networking; uses an infrared remote instead of bluetooth (though that can be a plus if you use an all-in-one remote); and it lacks SACD support (though newer PS3s are in the same boat).  But hey, otherwise it's just as capable as a PS3.  :-"
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Paisa49

#42
So, after much deliberation, I decided to purchase the Samsung BD-P2550:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8901227&type=product&id=1217634016243

The particular model I picked up, P2550, not only streams Netflix, but it also streams Pandora radio. The regular P2500 only streams Netflix and is the same price. I wound up picking this player up at an "open box" price, which saved me a nice chunk of change. Like Nat's Sony Blue Ray Player, I can plug my player into an ethernet slot to get firmware updates sent directly to the player. After really thinking about it, I don't think I would have gotten much use out of a PS3. I mostly stick to my old school systems and watch a ton of movies, so I think this purchase makes more sense.

Now, I'm just waiting for my home theater system to come in the mail.