PAL development

[Lum]

Has anybody actually tried to write program code for the PAL TG16? I've said before I don't believe any exists. It'd be nice to at least have a tech demo of how real 50hz games would've performed.

[Opethian]

I don't know of anyone that owns a PAL TG and actually uses it. Its more of a collector item or oddity  if anything.

[wildfruit]

I have one and I use it. I am an oddity. Also I know nothing of programming made a half arse attempt at doing c++ about 25 years ago and I've forgot It all.

[CrackTiger]

It doesn't run games correctly, so there's no reason to use a PAL TurboGrafx other than to see how much it messes up any particular game.

With that said, I'd love to see some PAL demos, especially if it allows for something special like decent 3D graphics.

[wildfruit]

It doesn't run games correctly, so there's no reason to use a PAL TurboGrafx other than to see how much it messes up any particular game.

I've never noticed anything other than slowdown. Never had an issue with a game glitching or the like. Unless you know of something specific and ill look out for it? I understand that someone who has played at 60hz before would get pissed off at 50hz but I'm used to it ( nes, master system, mega drive, snes etc ) the only game i ever thought was majorly gimped in 50hz was sonic the hedgehog. That was a real eye opener playing it at proper speed for the first time.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

I don't know of anyone that owns a PAL TG and actually uses it. Its more of a collector item or oddity  if anything.

Yep.  Mine sits in the closet, both because I have nothing that'll it'll play on and because who'd play on such a thing when they've got a Duo handy?

[DragonmasterDan]

I don't know of anyone that owns a PAL TG and actually uses it. Its more of a collector item or oddity  if anything.

I have one and HAVE used it.

But there's nothing specific to programming for it. It just runs regular TurboGrafx 16 games, just a bit slower.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Has anybody actually tried to write program code for the PAL TG16? I've said before I don't believe any exists. It'd be nice to at least have a tech demo of how real 50hz games would've performed.

They would perform the same as a 60hz game.

If it was written FOR PAL, it's reasonable to assume the developers would have tweaked the game during playtesting to play well.   

So, it's kind of a moot point.

For example, lets say I wrote Atlantean for PAL.   The end result would be the same. 

The songs were written externally, so naturally, you would tweak the tempo so it sounds right (Similar to how if you play a PCE game on a PAL system, the songs are slower.   I would adjust the tempo to compensate and fix this).

Then, the gameplay itself would have gone through the same playtesting and tweaking until it feels right.

Under the covers, the numbers would be different.   Other than that, it'd play the same.


If you're curious how actual, commercially released PAL games play, go look at European C64/MSX games.  Those were generally all written for PAL.


Oh, I could be mistaken because I hate the game, but Turrican on Turbo Grafx might be running too fast since it's a PAL game.

Compare it to the Amiga one and see, I guess. 

At a quick glance, the tunes seem to be going too fast on Turbo Grafx.


So, Turrican TG16 might play less shittily on a PAL system.

It will still suck because it's Turrican though.

[xcrement5x]

It will still suck because it's Turrican though.

At least it's not Universal Soldier...

[CrackTiger]

It doesn't run games correctly, so there's no reason to use a PAL TurboGrafx other than to see how much it messes up any particular game.

I've never noticed anything other than slowdown. Never had an issue with a game glitching or the like. Unless you know of something specific and ill look out for it? I understand that someone who has played at 60hz before would get pissed off at 50hz but I'm used to it ( nes, master system, mega drive, snes etc ) the only game i ever thought was majorly gimped in 50hz was sonic the hedgehog. That was a real eye opener playing it at proper speed for the first time.

It's weird that you're so forgiving of games running at the wrong speed, but got so upset that a console made for NTSC regions at a time when 95% of users were only using RF connections... only came with lowly composite output.

Turbo/PCE games don't slowdown more on the PAL TurboGrafx, they just run slower the entire time. Some are more noticeable than others. So games don't look, sound or play as intended.

But this is a console defined by its CD library and redbook audio doesn't slowdown for PAL speed (not in my tests anyway). I imagine that there are other complications, but having all of your dialogue, cinematics, various sound effects and other things way out of sync really breaks the experience.

You might as well just stick to emulation as it's a far more accurate experience.

[Bloufo]

I own one as well.
It's relegated to shits & giggles territory.
Like mixing and matching and seeing which fits into what. ;p

[Psycho Punch]

Wasn't the PALGrafx incompatible with the CDROM addon?

[Bloufo]

^^
That setup does work.

[xcrement5x]

I own one as well.
It's relegated to shits & giggles territory.
Like mixing and matching and seeing which fits into what. ;p

Reminds me of Breetai

[esteban]

Insanity plays best in PAL.

[Bloufo]

Reminds me of Breetai

Yeah he loved everything Turbo related. Would definitely get a kick out of that.
Tragic how he went out. 

BTW, he went by the tag here of 'Firebomber7', right?

[xcrement5x]

Ya, he was on chat as Breetai a lot too though.  Anyway, sorry.  Didn't mean to bring down the thread.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Ya, he was on chat as Breetai a lot too though.  Anyway, sorry.  Didn't mean to bring down the thread.

WAY TO GO, FAG.

[A Black Falcon]

It's pretty amusing that a European Turbografx works with a Japanese CD unit through a US base unit... good stuff.

It will still suck because it's Turrican though.

At least it's not Universal Soldier...

What about Universal Soldier (the Genesis game, I presume)?  It's a great port of a fantastic game!  Sure, it'd have been nice if the shmup levels hadn't been cut out of Turrican 2, but otherwise it's all there and done very well.  I don't care about the altered sprites, it's the same great game.  (Turrican 2 is a huge, huge improvement over the interesting but flawed first game... the first game is okay, but from 2 on the series is really, really good.)

[Damon Plus]

I have one and use it regularly. As I've only played in PAL format, I don't notice the games run slower or anything (just like I didn't notice back in the day with the Mega Drive, for example).

[TurboXray]

I've never had a PAL TG unit, but I remember talking with someone who had access to one (Charles Macdonald). It's not a 'normal' PAL setup - it's all hack-ish. IIRC, you don't get the added benefit that most PAL systems get (additional cpu cycles per frame, because it's normally speed/tv_frame_rate = cpu resource per frame). I remember something about it being stalled for long period of time (cpu, for a number of scanlines). Anyway, hack-ish. That said, I always wanted one to do tests on.

 It technically has a z80 mcu on it (one more 8bit processor), but you don't have access to it because it's busy making a legal PAL video signal from a hacked up NTSC one. It's wackadoo.

[esteban]

I've never had a PAL TG unit, but I remember talking with someone who had access to one (Charles Macdonald). It's not a 'normal' PAL setup - it's all hack-ish. IIRC, you don't get the added benefit that most PAL systems get (additional cpu cycles per frame, because it's normally speed/tv_frame_rate = cpu resource per frame). I remember something about it being stalled for long period of time (cpu, for a number of scanlines). Anyway, hack-ish. That said, I always wanted one to do tests on.

 It technically has a z80 mcu on it (one more 8bit processor), but you don't have access to it because it's busy making a legal PAL video signal from a hacked up NTSC one. It's wackadoo.

Seems like an awful lot of work to get rid of TG-16 hardware.

[DragonmasterDan]

Seems like an awful lot of work to get rid of TG-16 hardware.

I'm not sure if I'm interpreting your statement correctly.

I read it as "This sounds like too much effort for NEC simply trying to dump unsold US TurboGrafx 16s on the Europeans".

The PAL TurboGrafx uses a different color casing, different AV connector among many other things.

These were not simply hacked together by NEC to get rid of extra TG16s lying around their warehouses. This is clearly a factory made, PAL specific design with NEC's name printed all over it, from the outside to the internals. Not a hackjob of any kind, and not done by a third party.

[esteban]

Seems like an awful lot of work to get rid of TG-16 hardware.

I'm not sure if I'm interpreting your statement correctly.

I read it as "This sounds like too much effort for NEC simply trying to dump unsold US TurboGrafx 16s on the Europeans".

The PAL TurboGrafx uses a different color casing, different AV connector among many other things.

These were not simply hacked together by NEC to get rid of extra TG16s lying around their warehouses. This is clearly a factory made, PAL specific design with NEC's name printed all over it, from the outside to the internals. Not a hackjob of any kind, and not done by a third party.

Yeah, I might be wrong. Or completely wrong.

You interpreted my statement properly, as I intended.



---------- My thoughts, elaborated --------------

I put PAL TG in the same category as the Vistar...it seems that both PAL TG and Vistar were attempts to find uses for key components of TG-16 hardware...as if the internal components were sitting in a stockpile, unused, with no upcoming orders...and an accountant says, "We should do something with all this stuff. It will be a loss, otherwise. Write up a proposal, let's figure out if we can make a profit with minimal additional expenditures."

Basically, an attempt to salvage...

Of course, I could be wrong (focusing on hardware)  when I should be thinking about the SOFTWARE! Maybe the real issue was a huge stockpile of NA HuCARD's!

If that was the case, I could see PAL and Vistar hardware in a completely new way. PAL and Vistar hardware might very well have represented a *risky gamble* that would have provided a modest hardware profit, at best, but ultimately payoff in the long-run if overstock NA HuCARD's were selling in Europe/South Korea.

--------------- Problems ---------------

Many of my assertions could be overreaching: I assume motivation was either salvaging overstocked hardware and/or overstocked software.

(1) what NA titles would appeal to Europe/SK? Were these the same titles that were overstocked?

(2) maybe PAL began as a SERIOUS endeavor, but later, market realities forced NEC to change plans.

(3) I am completely wrong on everything.

[DragonmasterDan]

---------- My thoughts, elaborated --------------

I put PAL TG in the same category as the Vistar...it seems that both PAL TG and Vistar were attempts to find uses for key components of TG-16 hardware...as if the internal components were sitting in a stockpile, unused, with no upcoming orders...and an accountant says, "We should do something with all this stuff. It will be a loss, otherwise. Write up a proposal, let's figure out if we can make a profit with minimal additional expenditures."

Basically, an attempt to salvage...

Of course, I could be wrong (focusing on hardware)  when I should be thinking about the SOFTWARE! Maybe the real issue was a huge stockpile of NA HuCARD's!

From what I could tell these were manufactured around 1990. By that time NEC was certainly disappointed with the TG's sales in North America. But by no means were they just looking to bulk unload or give up. As mentioned this is a completely different PCB revision motherboard, using some different chips. A different plastic casing not just for the system but the controller (same mold though), even a new logo for the PAL unit.

If that was the case, I could see PAL and Vistar hardware in a completely new way. PAL and Vistar hardware might very well have represented a *risky gamble* that would have provided a modest hardware profit, at best, but ultimately payoff in the long-run if overstock NA HuCARD's were selling in Europe/South Korea.

The Vistar seems to have hit the market around 1992, and is far more likely to have been an attempt to salvage or re-use unsold stock by selling it to a third party in Korea to market it locally.

--------------- Problems ---------------

Many of my assertions could be overreaching: I assume motivation was either salvaging overstocked hardware and/or overstocked software.

(1) what NA titles would appeal to Europe/SK? Were these the same titles that were overstocked?

(2) maybe PAL began as a SERIOUS endeavor, but later, market realities forced NEC to change plans.

(3) I am completely wrong on everything.

I'm pretty sure the PAL release started as a serious plan, they designed a new logo, they designed a PCB with a different crystal and different chips to use, they dropped the 16 from the systems name. They test marketed it and... it didn't do so well, so however many units they initially manufactured were all that would see the light of day and most of the unsold ones showed up years later as New Old Stock.

[YANDMAN]

pc engine cd always maes me think of  daft punk helmet

[esteban]

pc engine cd always maes me think of  daft punk helmet

Comrade, you have it reversed!



Daft Punk makes EVERYONE think of PCE