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Xanadu II Translation Development Blog

Started by elmer, 08/31/2015, 11:50 AM

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seieienbu

#150
Quote from: elmer on 12/31/2015, 02:47 PMIMG


There are a lot of different text messages that go into that "Attack +12" string area ... and the number itself can be up to 6 digits long.

I think that I'm going to need that 6x12 font in order to keep any abbreviated text messages understandable.  :-k
I think I speak for everyone when I say that abbreviating Defense to Def is nowhere nearly as gross as abbreviating Dragon Slayer to Dragn Slyr.  It's been a while since I've played, but I seem to recall the stats being referred to as Def and Atk on your character status sheet thing-y.  Assuming this is the case, if you leave it as Atk and Def then you have symmetry that actually works pretty nicely, in fact.....

Also, I'm of the opinion that the shop menu looks better with the item name up at the top than down below anyway.  Hurray for problem solving!
Current want list:  Bomberman 93

elmer

Quote from: elmer on 12/27/2015, 07:40 PMThe new trick is actually pretty neat ... in Xanadu 2, all of the item descriptions are stored in the script chunk for the "Pause Menu", and not in the Game Code like in Xanadu 1.

Each Weapon Shop is contained in it's own script chunk, just as you'd expect, and this is decompressed and copied into $A000-$BFFF for execution just like all the other script chunks.

But in order to print out the item descriptions, the Weapon Shop itself decompresses the Pause Menu's script chunk into the temporary decompression buffer and maps that buffer into $C000-$DFFF, just so that it can access the table of item descriptions (which is located $2000 higher than normal).
When Falcom decided to put the item names/descriptions into the Pause Menu script chunk and keep them compressed most of the time, this had an interesting side-effect that recently caused some trouble for the Xanadu 2 translation process.

While the Weapon Shops get access to all of those item name strings by decompressing Pause Menu into temporarily-unused space ... that option isn't available to the regular script chunks.

Now most script chunks don't ever need to use those item names ... but some do, and those are the ones that contain a Treasure Chest.

When you open the Treasure Chest, you receive an item, or some gems, or just nothing ... but if it's an item, then the name of that item needs to be displayed.

So Falcom decided to make copies of the name strings for those items in each script chunk that contains a Treasure Chest.

In order to save memory, they only store the names of the small subset of items that you might potentially get from that particular Treasure Chest ... but the method that they use to store/access those strings is unique, and so they weren't being extracted for translation.

Well, now they are.  :)


IMG

IMG

SamIAm


elmer

#153
Another thing that Falcom added to Xanadu 2 that wasn't in Xanadu 1, are the popup text boxes.

Just like text that's displayed in the Weapon Shops, these  popup boxes use some custom text printing code.

Once that was fixed, we go from ...

IMG

To ...

IMG


The last thing to deal with, is actually centering the text so that it all looks nice.

This is accomplished by passing an x-offset parameter to the routine that draws the text box.

Now, our text is obviously a very different width to the original Japanese text, and there are 168 of these popup text boxes in the extracted script, so we really don't want to have to adjust each one manually.

The solution is just to tell the script compiler where each of the popup text boxes is located in the extracted scripts, and then, when the compiler processes each of the translations, it can calculate the width of the new English string and hack in the correct x-offset parameter into the script chunk's code to get passed into the drawing code.


Here is the result ...

IMG

IvanBeavkov

Elmer,
I just want to say I love this thread so much. It is just so interesting to see these details and clever solutions to problems.

This thread should also be required reading for anyone who complains how long translations take. It is these little details that take a translation from "Well it is in English." To something truly special.

I also have a humble question to ask. Would it be possible, after you have completed this project, to be able to see the code of your tools to see how it works?

I am a software developer, custom business software not games, and I would like to contribute to the translation scene but I am having a hard time getting started. I have read some of the articles over on Romhacking.net, but for me I learn much better by example. So to be able to look at your tool next to the game iso would be very enlightening.

If you are not comfortable sharing your code that is fine I understand, I am just some random guy on the internet. If you do though I would be very grateful.

elmer

Quote from: IvanBeavkov on 01/20/2016, 12:16 PMI just want to say I love this thread so much.
Thanks!   :)


QuoteWould it be possible, after you have completed this project, to be able to see the code of your tools to see how it works?
Certainly, but it's still going to be many months before we're finished with everything.

Then I'll wait another few months to let things settle.

But I fully intend to release everything ... in the same way that I intend to release everything for Zeroigar, too.

In fact, we're nearly at the 6-month mark since the Zeroigar release, so I need to start gathering things together for that.

Except that I have very little free time just at the moment.  #-o

NightWolve

This is kind of motivating me to resume with the Emerald Dragon project which has been asleep for some time now.

Funny thing, elmer and SamIAm actually instead motivated me to put in time on advancing TurboRip which I worked on the other day actually due to MNKyDeth being in possession of another previously unknown pressing of Dungeon Master that wasn't in TurboRip's internal PCE TOC database. Heh. I'm much happier where it's at, although I still wish I had invested time in building a future GUI version. I could've whipped something up with Visual Basic long ago, but I just don't wanna take the easy way out with a RAD development package like that.

Anyway, I still wanna wrap up some things with TurboRip first, and then resume with Emerald Dragon. I'll have much more free time coming up.

TurboXray

Quote from: NightWolve on 01/31/2016, 08:56 PMThis is kind of motivating me to resume with the Emerald Dragon project which has been asleep for some time now.

Funny thing, elmer and SamIAm actually instead motivated me to put in time on advancing TurboRip which I worked on the other day actually due to MNKyDeth being in possession of another previously unknown pressing of Dungeon Master that wasn't in TurboRip's internal PCE TOC database. Heh. I'm much happier where it's at, although I still wish I had invested time in building a future GUI version. I could've whipped something up with Visual Basic long ago, but I just don't wanna take the easy way out with a RAD development package like that.

Anyway, I still wanna wrap up some things with TurboRip first, and then resume with Emerald Dragon. I'll have much more free time coming up.
Speaking of which, how are your gui app making skills? The PCE community could really use a PCE map making utility. *Hint-hint*. None of the ones out there offer tile editing along subpalette association, etc or the capability of the PCE (16 subpalettes). Pro Motion had something, but that was like a $100 and not sure if they worked on it in the past few years (it had a bug in the tile/tilemap section).

NightWolve

#158
I tried to make a Font Editor once, but I gave up... Not good enough, I admit... lol

I'm too much of a slow poke and there's gotta be a lot of motivation to get something done. ;)

But on the subject, making a GUI really is kind of an art. If you look at my TOC Fixer, you won't be impressed, but it's a lightweight executable built on barebone use of WinAPI so it'll work all the way back to Windows 95! It takes a lot longer to build with just a Visual C++ IDE, but it's more satisfying and more bug free.

On the other hand, my Translation Station app built with Access XP (recent Emerald Dragon version) shows what you can accomplish if you're persistent and motivated. :) But, I don't like the cost of VB or VBA RAD software development packages/environments which is what enabled me to build it... There's quite a bit of a pro/con thing.

Later, I made a cheap Internet Explorer version of Translation Station so that any of my translators (most of which were criminals so I never even should've bothered, but I digress, heh) didn't have to pirate Microsoft Access. That's mostly what DeuceBag used for our fan patches, and he also used it one last time (in commercial gain) to port the scripts out and secretly hand off to XXXSEED Games (you know the rest of the story).

Conclusion: Eh, I mostly suck with some exceptions and I'm too slow/tied up/burned out to be of much help to others. :)

elmer

Quote from: SamIAm on 01/31/2016, 09:56 PMElmer's Xanadu II dump is finally in my hands, and it looks great. We're exploring options for merging the old translation as it exists in Esperknight's dump with this new one. Elmer has so far gotten the old lines to sit at the top of each file where they exist in the new dump (and there are 300+ files). If I have to copy/paste everything manually, that saves me a big couple of steps. Next is to see whether the old lines can be placed exactly where they're supposed to go throughout the new dump without too many errors.
Done!  :D

Where the Japanese text in the new extraction matches the Japanese text in the old extraction, I've copied the old English translation into the new location in the script file.

That seems to have caught 80-90% of the translations.

All of the old translations are still dumped at the top of the new script files so that SamIAm can refer to them when he goes through each file and fixes things.

I've given SamIAm the insertion toolchain for Xanadu 2 ... so now it's all up to him!  :wink:

FYI ... all the translations fit into memory with no problem (at the moment), so I think that we're going to be OK with having the game still run on a regular Super System Card.

From my POV, barring any bugs, I'm done with the main hacking on the games.

What's left are all the small graphical changes that need to be made (like the initial menu option in Xanadu 2), and then implementing a full variable-width-font (since I'm pretty confident, finally, that there should be enough memory left in code space to do that).

elmer

Quote from: NightWolve on 01/31/2016, 08:56 PMThis is kind of motivating me to resume with the Emerald Dragon project which has been asleep for some time now.
...
Anyway, I still wanna wrap up some things with TurboRip first, and then resume with Emerald Dragon.
Excellent news!  :D


Quote from: TurboXray on 01/31/2016, 10:08 PMSpeaking of which, how are your gui app making skills? The PCE community could really use a PCE map making utility. *Hint-hint*. None of the ones out there offer tile editing along subpalette association, etc or the capability of the PCE (16 subpalettes). Pro Motion had something, but that was like a $100 and not sure if they worked on it in the past few years (it had a bug in the tile/tilemap section).
ProMotion (http://www.cosmigo.com/promotion) is a great app and I'd highly recommend it to anyone ... it gets a lot of commercial use.

A new version was released in December, and the price was dropped to $60.

There's also a "free" edition that people can use.

IMHO ... writing major GUI tools requires a huge investment in time. It's usually better to use existing tools with a custom export/processing stage.

Even during the actual time of the 4th-gen machines, most development was done with 256-color editors (like dpaint) with the teams following the convention that the 256-colors represent 16-palettes of 16-colors.

Most decent editors offer "grid" movement of the cursor that you can set to something like 8x8 so that you can simulate tiles.


Quote from: NightWolve on 01/31/2016, 10:49 PMI tried to make a Font Editor once, but I gave up... Not good enough, I admit... lol
I gave up writing GUI editors years ago ... but still have my custom "converter" that supports a lots of different inputs and outputs, and a crazy amount of "options".

IMHO colored fonts are best-done in photoshop so that you can use the huge supply of true-type fonts as a starting-point.

It's easy to reduce them down to 16-colors-or-less when they're done, and then you can remap them into specific palette indexes with grafx or promotion.

For single-color fonts, I just use "fony" (http://hukka.ncn.fi/?fony).

poponon

Quote from: NightWolve on 01/31/2016, 10:49 PMBut, I don't like the cost of VB or VBA RAD software development packages/environments which is what enabled me to build it... There's quite a bit of a pro/con thing.
I had an issue with this recently as well and switched over to Lazarus IDE as a result. Very similar to VB or VB6 but far better in nearly every way so far. It's a free Delphi clone. Just though I should add incase you want to give it a shot.

OldMan

Congratulations.

Now the boring stuff starts :)

Gredler

Quote from: elmer on 02/01/2016, 12:12 PMProMotion (http://www.cosmigo.com/promotion) is a great app and I'd highly recommend it to anyone ... it gets a lot of commercial use.

A new version was released in December, and the price was dropped to $60.

There's also a "free" edition that people can use.
Wow this looks awesome! Thanks for sharing! Is this something that I can wrangle into HuC?

Quote from: elmer on 02/01/2016, 12:12 PMIMHO ... writing major GUI tools requires a huge investment in time. It's usually better to use existing tools with a custom export/processing stage.

Even during the actual time of the 4th-gen machines, most development was done with 256-color editors (like dpaint) with the teams following the convention that the 256-colors represent 16-palettes of 16-colors.

Most decent editors offer "grid" movement of the cursor that you can set to something like 8x8 so that you can simulate tiles.
Danm, I know it's potentially viable to create a script combining image magic and photoshop batch actions to automate this somehow, but my coding skills are far inferior to the requirements to set it up.

Best I could try and manage is to create a good exporting tool for a single pcx with correct color indexes.

Tile assignment and subdivision is a whole other beast, but it should be possible in photoshop (esp considering the slice tool export options for web development)


Quote from: elmer on 02/01/2016, 12:12 PMIMHO colored fonts are best-done in photoshop so that you can use the huge supply of true-type fonts as a starting-point.

It's easy to reduce them down to 16-colors-or-less when they're done, and then you can remap them into specific palette indexes with grafx or promotion.

For single-color fonts, I just use "fony" (http://hukka.ncn.fi/?fony).
In the past we used tools such as this http://www.bmglyph.com/ to create font atlas's, but that was just what the office used, and there are a ton of similar tools out there to get a base atlas made, that can then be painted in photoshop once generated. Tools like this allow unique fonts to be generated across multiple type faces which is obviously very helpful for creating fonts for various languages, but also has a great application for creating a base for low res sprite fonts.

NightWolve

#164
Quote from: poponon on 02/01/2016, 12:31 PM
Quote from: NightWolve on 01/31/2016, 10:49 PMBut, I don't like the cost of VB or VBA RAD software development packages/environments which is what enabled me to build it... There's quite a bit of a pro/con thing.
I had an issue with this recently as well and switched over to Lazarus IDE as a result. Very similar to VB or VB6 but far better in nearly every way so far. It's a free Delphi clone. Just though I should add incase you want to give it a shot.
Thanks man, I will! I was googling for alternative IDEs to Microsoft VC++ Express the other day with form building VB-style aspects. Probably you gotta pay for something good like that. The freeware route I guess just seems using resource hackers to lay out the form objects and then connect it up with your code to handle input manually and what not. How I built TOCFixer.

Quote from: elmer on 02/01/2016, 12:12 PMFor single-color fonts, I just use "fony" (http://hukka.ncn.fi/?fony).
Dang, that is nice! Heck, that is what I was trying to build and wanted (way back when), pretty much.

elmer

#165
Quote from: elmer on 02/01/2016, 11:18 AMWhat's left are all the small graphical changes that need to be made (like the initial menu option in Xanadu 2), and then implementing a full variable-width-font (since I'm pretty confident, finally, that there should be enough memory left in code space to do that).
The fully-variable-width font is now working in both Xanadu 1 and 2.  :D

It's a good time to look back on the progress in the font replacement over the last few months, and compare how they look.

If you've got "irfanview" or some other simple way to flip back-and-forth between the downloaded screengrabs, then you'll get the best sense of exactly what the differences are.

The 1st picture is from the first batch of screens that I posted back in early November ...

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=19968.msg435280#msg435280

This is using the quick-and-easy bi-width font hack, which makes each tile (the spacing between the letters) either 4-pixels or 8-pixels wide.

The letters themselves are drawn either 1-pixel, 6-pixels or 7-pixels wide.

It looks good, but there's an inconsistent gap between the letters ... mostly it's 2-pixels, but sometime it is 1-pixel or 3-pixels.

Xanadu 1 - Old BWF (6-pixel/1-pixel)

IMG

**********************

Eventually my training and my slightly OCD nature got the better of me and I couldn't stand the ugly inconsistency anymore, and so I modified the font.

This time, it's still using the 4-pixel or 8-pixel tile size, but the letters themselves are all either drawn 3-pixels or 7-pixels wide.

This gives a 100% consistent 1-pixel gap between the letters, at the cost of having some letters look a little too wide.

Honestly, I wouldn't be embarrassed at all to ship the game with this font.

Xanadu 1 - Old BWF (7-pixel/3-pixel)

IMG

**********************

But it was always the goal to implement a variable-width-font if there was enough memory free for the extra code and data (the table of widths of each glyph).

With a VWF, I get to go back to 6-pixel wide letters, and also get to have a consistent 2-pixel gap between the letters.

That 2-pixel gap is absolutely necessary to make Falcom's "bold-and-outlined" effect look good, but it also helps to make the font a little easier on the eyes by making the distinction between each letter just that little bit clearer.

Here's how that looks, and I hope that you'll all agree that it is pretty nice ...

Xanadu 1 - New VWF

IMG

esteban

The new VWF screenshot is quite nice. I did not mind one screenful of the compressed old BWF (1 pixel gap), but reading in general will be much more pleasant with new VWF.

:)


Until you change it again, to incorporate JUMBO-sized letters for the first character of every dialogue box.

Ha!
IMGIMG IMG  |  IMG  |  IMG IMG

elmer

Quote from: esteban on 02/09/2016, 12:34 PMUntil you change it again, to incorporate JUMBO-sized letters for the first character of every dialogue box.
Hahaha, yep, I do like to make iterative "improvements"!  :wink:

There's no chance of putting in a medieval-style huge first letter (but it would be kind-of-cool), but I am a little tempted to see if I can get the speaker's name in bold ... just to see what it would look like.  :-k

****************

In the meantime, I fixed a bug in Falcom's bold-and-outline code where it missed some pixels in the outline.

Here's the original (look at the very top and bottom line of each character's outline) ...

IMG


And here's the fixed version ...

IMG

esteban

Easier to read! A few pixels = make a difference. :)
IMGIMG IMG  |  IMG  |  IMG IMG

elmer

#169
Quote from: esteban on 02/09/2016, 06:16 PMEasier to read! A few pixels = make a difference. :)
Hahaha ... I couldn't have asked for a better quote to lead in to this next post!  :wink:

Once you've got the capability to do a variable-width-font and can start drawing any glyph on any pixel boundary, it opens up the possiblity to implement the next visual improvement in font drawing ... and that is "kerning" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerning).

For those that don't know what that is ... it's just the name for adjusting the spacing between particular pairs of glyphs in order to make them more readable.


The spacing between letters can make things look unprofessional, and harder to read ...

IMG


Or, when done really badly, it can even totally change the desired meaning of a sentence ...

IMG


******************************

So, where does that take us in the Xanadu games?

Well, even at the low resolution of the 4th-generation consoles, there are still some particular combinations of English characters that can benefit from a little tweaking in order to make each word distinct and easy-to-read.

At this resolution, it's a pretty subtle effect, but it really is one of those little details that marks a product as "AAA".

And the thing is, it is actually pretty easy to implement from a programming POV.

All the hard work is done in the script compiler.

It has to look at each English string that is inserted into the game, and identify the pairs of characters that need an adjustment, and then write an encoded pixel-offset value into the output data just after the 1st character and just before the 2nd character.

All that the game code has to do is to draw the string as normal, and then, when it gets to one of these specially-encoded-offsets, it just adjusts the drawing position as requested, and then immediately continues drawing the next glyph.

In most cases you just encode a +/- 7 offset like this as the normally-unused ASCII codes $10-$1F, but since Falcom are using all the codes from $00-$1F for their script interpreter, I've just encoded the offset as $F0-$FF instead.

Here are a couple of examples of the results.

This is another one of those examples where it is easier to see if you download the images and can then flip back-and-forth between them to see the difference.

Everyone should be able to quickly see the change in the "Te" and "Ta" below, but are you sharp enough to see the other changes without downloading the pictures?  :wink:


Xanadu 1 - VWF without kerning

IMG


Xanadu 1 - VWF with kerning

IMG


Xanadu 2 - VWF without kerning

IMG


Xanadu 2 - VWF with kerning

IMG

seieienbu

It's a shame that this much perfectionism and attention to detail didn't make it into more released titles.
Current want list:  Bomberman 93

esteban

Quote from: seieienbu on 02/10/2016, 01:40 AMIt's a shame that this much perfectionism and attention to detail didn't make it into more released titles.
Le truth.

Le kerning.

Le typography.
IMGIMG IMG  |  IMG  |  IMG IMG

NightWolve

Wowser, elmer really is one of the rarest talents to come along and dedicate some time for PCE hacking! Besides Bonknuts, I never saw anybody else at this level!

ginoscope

Quote from: seieienbu on 02/10/2016, 01:40 AMIt's a shame that this much perfectionism and attention to detail didn't make it into more released titles.
Exactly what I was thinking where was Elmer when we got some of those questionable translations in the 1990s lol.  Really enjoy reading the blog updates.

elmer

#174
Quote from: esteban on 02/10/2016, 07:21 AMLe typography.
Le Definitely!  :wink:

I'm not a Graphic Designer myself, but I was lucky enough to have a teacher at school who loved the art of printing, and so had the opportunity to learn to "set" real metal type on an ancient Heidelberg printing press, and to see the wonderful old machine drag paper out of a hopper and thump the platen down on the freshly-inked type.

It one of those sight/sound/smell memories that you never forget.  :)

And so decades later, I end up being one of the few programmers on the planet to have his own personal fully-licensed-and-registered copy of the complete Adobe Font Folio collection, and I go around trying to make sure that the font printing looks as-good-as-possible in anything that I work on.

Just one of those little quirks-of-fate!


Quote from: seieienbu on 02/10/2016, 01:40 AMIt's a shame that this much perfectionism and attention to detail didn't make it into more released titles.
Time and money are such an important factor in professional game development.

When it comes to NEC/Hudson translating Japanese games for the North American market, they probably didn't have a lot of either.

Even if they got the source-code to each of the games that they wanted to translate ... then they'd still have to spend a lot of time figuring out how to modify it to get an English font working.

And if the original Japanese developer did the translation work themselves, then you're probably dealing with guys that don't have any background in Western typography, and are just trying to do the best that they can in a limited time.

I know that when I've worked on translations into Japanese, I'm just looking at chicken-scratchings on the screen, and I'm totally dependent upon a translator (probably from a 3rd company, and who just wants to get home on time) to look at things.

Only the really, really, really high-profile titles are going to get the kind of love that you can see that SamIAm and I are trying to apply to the Xanadu games ... and that we only have the luxury of spending this much time on because we're not doing it as a "paying job".


Quote from: NightWolve on 02/10/2016, 10:07 AMWowser, elmer really is one of the rarest talents to come along and dedicate some time for PCE hacking!
Thanks for the kind words ... but I hope that I'm showing that at-least-some of this stuff isn't too difficult for any programmer to do ... if they make up their mind to do it.

It's more a case of the knowledge that it can be done, together with the will to spend the time to do it, and less about raw talent.

I hope that I'm helping to explain why custom tools can make such a difference to the end-result.

Not every translation project needs a programmer ... we've just had a wonderful example of that with toktogul's magnificent work on "The Lost Sunheart", and his current work on "Daichi Kun Crisis".

But when a programmer is involved, I'd pretty-much-always advocate for developing some quick-and-dirty custom tools over using pre-made do-everything "hacker" tools, such as EsperKnight's use of "Atlas".

IMHO, his insistence on using that tool ended up totally masking what was really going on inside Falcom's script code, and so left him with no clear idea of why things started breaking when he tried to re-insert English text, and how to fix the problem.  :-k

Well ... that, and the fact that it wouldn't have mattered anyway because he'd have run out-of-memory.


Quote from: ginoscope on 02/11/2016, 08:22 PMExactly what I was thinking where was Elmer when we got some of those questionable translations in the 1990s lol.
Hahaha ... I was busy working-for-a-living developing original games, including translating a couple of them into Japanese.  :wink:

ccovell

Quote from: elmer on 02/12/2016, 12:03 PM...I go around trying to make sure that the font printing looks as-good-as-possible in anything that I work on.
Oh. 

On that note, Elmer.  Sorry, I forgot to tell you that I had already fully translated Xanadu.  The patch is up on RomHacking.net now!  Today!

Preview:
IMG

;-D

elmer

Damn ... you mean that I spent all this time over these months only to be pipped-to-the-post at the last minute?  :shock:

Hahaha ... beautiful font work, though ... you have my total admiration!  =D>

It's still easier to read than what I get out of "Google Translate" when I'm trying to understand the PC-FX developer documents!  :wink:

esteban

#177
Quote from: ccovell on 02/13/2016, 07:02 PMIMG
You can punch me, but that font could work with proper kerning/leading/tracking/smoking/cracking.

:)

I'm serious.
IMGIMG IMG  |  IMG  |  IMG IMG

elmer

Quote from: esteban on 02/14/2016, 06:46 PMYou can punch me, but that font could work with proper kerning/leading/tracking/smoking/cracking.

:)

I'm serious.
I agree, there's definitely something nice about an anti-aliased font ... in the right circumstances.  :)

If you look at Zeroigar, you'll see that I used one for the subtitle "Level Name" screens to try to match the one that SamIAm baked into the video subtitles.

But it takes a whole lot of palette entries to get those gradient-colors for the edges, and we just don't have enough unused-palette-entries available here in Xanadu (or in the in-game screens in Zeroigar).

Plus ... I often don't really like anti-aliasing on "thin" fonts ... it's just too hard to be consistent about the stem widths, and it all starts to look very blurry.

A nice-and-crappy composite TV signal will smooth out the whole thing and actually make it look pretty-damned-good, but today we're often dealing with higher-resolution displays or maybe we watch the game on an LCD output, both of which make things "too" sharp for a low-resolution 256-wide signal.

Finally, there's the issue of finding the extra memory for the font ... basically doubling or tripling it's size.

Perhaps I'm being too negative about it ... but then-again I'm a guy that still switches off the blurry anti-aliased fonts in any programmer's-editor and just uses a nice-and-clean bitmap font instead.

In fact I have my own bitmap font that I install into Windows to replace the ugly Microsoft ones.  :wink:

NightWolve

Quote from: elmer on 02/12/2016, 12:03 PMBut when a programmer is involved, I'd pretty-much-always advocate for developing some quick-and-dirty custom tools over using pre-made do-everything "hacker" tools, such as EsperKnight's use of "Atlas".

IMHO, his insistence on using that tool ended up totally masking what was really going on inside Falcom's script code, and so left him with no clear idea of why things started breaking when he tried to re-insert English text, and how to fix the problem.  :-k
Atlas ? Is that that translation software used by professionals in the industry ? I had a translator once for Falcom's Zwei! PC game from Finland or Sweden (forget) who used that. He did eventually translate the script I provided him, but English wasn't his native language and by the time it happened years later, I just didn't see a lot of point, not just due to burn out... But yeah, I heard of this if we're thinking of the same thing.

elmer

#180
Quote from: NightWolve on 02/15/2016, 05:52 PMAtlas ? Is that that translation software used by professionals in the industry ? I had a translator once for Falcom's Zwei! PC game from Finland or Sweden (forget) who used that.
NO, it is most-definitely NOT a professional-level solution.  :wink:

It's a hacking scene tool that lets you insert stuff into a file image (i.e. a ROM or an ISO).

http://www.romhacking.net/utilities/224/

Even on romhacking.net's download page it says "Level: Beginner".

I'm sure that people can get it to do some reasonably decent results if the game's text is stored simply enough, and you're willing to put up with the ugly syntax.

Whenever I've done translations (i.e. lots of EFIGS, and some Japanese), both the publishers and the translation companies were happiest with Excel files.

Then it's up to the developer to get the translated text out of the excel file and into their game source/data ... preferably in some automated fashion.

NightWolve

#181
Quote from: elmer on 02/15/2016, 06:15 PMNO, it is most-definitely NOT a professional-level solution.  :wink:

It's a hacking scene tool that lets you insert stuff into a file image (i.e. a ROM or an ISO).

http://www.romhacking.net/utilities/224/
Ah, I see. It's a just generic command-line app to insert text back into the game.

EDIT: Just to check that my memory isn't fading, this must be what that translator would use for his translation business:

https://www.fujitsu.com/global/products/software/packaged-software/translation/atlas/

He talked about an interesting feature it has, this "translation memory" which he said helped him a lot. And I found his website again:

http://www.loekalization.com/

That's right, he was from the Netherlands! And his tag, lol, "Don't localize. Loekalize."

Kinda interesting, one can get an idea of what professional translators charge videogame companies for things like manual translations. He once wanted to license "Legend of Heroes VI: First Chapter" from Falcom way before those bozos at X.X.XSEED Games came along, even had saki with somebody from Falcom on his visit to Japan, but the deal fell through even though it got as far as Falcom giving him hundreds of script files to get started on it.

QuoteWhenever I've done translations (i.e. lots of EFIGS, and some Japanese), both the publishers and the translation companies were happiest with Excel files.

Then it's up to the developer to get the translated text out of the excel file and into their game source/data ... preferably in some automated fashion.
Yeah, the "primitive" way to do it (I've seen Falcom's EXCEL files from X.X.XSEED), or just straight text files... I always wanted to provide something better when I got started that would put my name on the map, but it's a lot of work/planning for something extensible, universal, etc... It would still wind up being a hackish solution even though I thought I was better than that... :/ I would just tell myself at the end, well, I produced an English patch with everybody involved at least, I still got the job done for whatever project (most cases)...

elmer

Quote from: NightWolve on 02/15/2016, 08:15 PM
Quote from: elmer on 02/15/2016, 06:15 PMWhenever I've done translations (i.e. lots of EFIGS, and some Japanese), both the publishers and the translation companies were happiest with Excel files.

Then it's up to the developer to get the translated text out of the excel file and into their game source/data ... preferably in some automated fashion.
Yeah, the "primitive" way to do it (I've seen Falcom's EXCEL files from X.X.XSEED), or just straight text files... I always wanted to provide something better when I got started that would put my name on the map, but it's a lot of work/planning for something extensible, universal, etc... It would still wind up being a hackish solution even though I thought I was better than that... :/ I would just tell myself at the end, well, I produced an English patch with everybody involved at least, I still got the job done for whatever project (most cases)...
Excel (or any spreadsheet) isn't that bad a tool to use if you're willing to do some work on producing tools to surround it.

Producers and translators generally don't want to deal with game-code, or with trying to find strings in the middle script files that keep on changing.

Post-mortem fan translations are a very different beast to still-in-development, got-to-simultaneously-ship-in-5-or-more-languages translations.

It's easy to import/export an Excel spreadsheet into a text format (I used it's HTML import/export capability), and once you've got the ability to read/process/re-generate a translation spreadsheet at any time, then you can put it under source-control, and have it automagically color-code and put any "changed" text strings at the top of the file so that you're not wasting the translator's time.

As you've already found ... it's easy to "tag" and process text strings just by using CRC32 values, and it's easy to parse C source files (or LUA, or whatever script language you use) to export/import text strings into your game's desired format.

elmer

#183
Sometimes you spend ages writing something, and the end result is so-darned-subtle that you can hardly notice where all the effort went!  ](*,)


Xanadu 2 text without drop-shadow:

IMG


Xanadu 2 text with drop-shadow:

IMG


The drop-shadow can be made more obvious by putting it in a darker color, but since Falcom never planned for one in the game ... there isn't a consistent palette entry available that works.

Perhaps it's for the best that it doesn't scream-out its presence ... I'd have felt bad if it looked out-of-place.

As it is ... it just makes things just-that-tiny-little-bit more readable.

EDIT:

I just couldn't leave it alone! Here's another version with a slight improvement ...

IMG

elmer

OTOH, the drop-shadow really does help the text in Xanadu 2's Weapon Shops, particularly when using a condensed font for the item descriptions.

Hopefully everyone will like how this looks!


Xanadu 2 Weapon Shop with drop-shadow and condensed font ...

IMG

CrackTiger

The drop shadow is definitely necessary and works great. :)
Justin the Not-So-Cheery Black/Hack/CrackTiger helped Joshua Jackass, Andrew/Arkhan Dildovich and the DildoPhiles destroy 2 PC Engine groups: one by Aaron Lambert on Facebook, then the other by Aaron Nanto!!! Him and PCE Aarons don't have a good track record together! Both times he blamed the Aarons and their staff in a "Look-what-you-made-us-do?!" manner, never himself nor his deranged/destructive/doxxing toxic turbo troll gang which he covers up for under the "community" euphemism!

geise

It really does look better.  You have no idea how much I appreciate the work you and everyone are putting in.

dejan07

I can notice the slight differences in fonts you showed us!

esteban

I think the font should be translucent + no drop shadow. Thank you.
IMGIMG IMG  |  IMG  |  IMG IMG

NightWolve

Quote from: elmer on 02/17/2016, 01:48 PMIt's easy to import/export an Excel spreadsheet into a text format (I used it's HTML import/export capability), and once you've got the ability to read/process/re-generate a translation spreadsheet at any time, then you can put it under source-control, and have it automagically color-code and put any "changed" text strings at the top of the file so that you're not wasting the translator's time.
Oh, that's pretty useful, color-coding changed/updated strings, I didn't know about. I used to be pretty good with Corel's spreadsheet app in their WordPerfect suite, till Microsoft took things over. But you gotta hand it to MS, the idea of VBA/Visual Basic for Applications integration with Word, Excel, Access, etc. is very powerful. Comes in handy very much.

elmer

Quote from: esteban on 03/12/2016, 02:28 PMI think the font should be translucent + no drop shadow. Thank you.
Now that's out-of-the-box thinking for you!  :wink:


Quote from: NightWolve on 03/12/2016, 11:58 PMOh, that's pretty useful, color-coding changed/updated strings, I didn't know about. I used to be pretty good with Corel's spreadsheet app in their WordPerfect suite, till Microsoft took things over. But you gotta hand it to MS, the idea of VBA/Visual Basic for Applications integration with Word, Excel, Access, etc. is very powerful. Comes in handy very much.
You can do some pretty-darned-amazing stuff with VBScript, I've definitely been impressed with what Microsoft created there.

I'm much-less impressed with their current efforts to shoe-horn megabytes of .NET runtime into everything.  :roll:

elmer

SamIAm has found that Xanadu 2's English font can be a bit difficult to read on a TV because the background pattern is a bit too bright.

So I tracked-down where Falcom are storing their palettes, and did a bit tweaking. That also let me make sure that the drop-shadow is drawn in the darkest background color.

What do folks think?


Xanadu 2 Message Box - Normal

IMG


Xanadu 2 Message Box - High Contrast

IMG


Xanadu 2 Pause Menu - Normal

IMG


Xanadu 2 Pause Menu - High Contrast

IMG

NecroPhile

The text definitely pops out more, but I can't say the original is that hard to read.
Ultimate Forum Bully/Thief/Saboteur/Clone Warrior! BURN IN HELL NECROPHUCK!!!

esteban

I like the high-contrast versions, especially because I'll be playing on an old CRT. :)
IMGIMG IMG  |  IMG  |  IMG IMG

Gredler

I really like the changes, it makes it much easier on my eyes

SamIAm

Wonderful!

When I load up Mednafen on my laptop and do some testing there, the original colors are never a problem. If you're using real hardware with a composite video connection, the blues are softened and blended somewhat, and again, it's not a big deal. But if you're using an RGB modded system and a CRT, the background pattern is harsh. It kind of reminds me of old TV static. The brightest color in the blue palette especially can really make some things hard to look at depending on what letters fall where.

This will definitely be an improvement. I can't wait to try it! Hooray, elmer!

Johnpv

I REALLY dig the high contrast version.  To me it just pops so much more.

seieienbu

Both look fine from here but if one looks better on a CRT then by all means go with that one!
Current want list:  Bomberman 93

CrackTiger

#198
Here's a version that balances the color of the original and is darker overall, while preserving the original artwork:

IMG

IMGIMG

I didn't adjust the text and drop shadow colors, so it doesn't show how readable it could be. Using text colored similar to that high contrast pic should be readable using various video connections.

EDIT: here's the balanced color version shifted down a shade darker:

IMG
Justin the Not-So-Cheery Black/Hack/CrackTiger helped Joshua Jackass, Andrew/Arkhan Dildovich and the DildoPhiles destroy 2 PC Engine groups: one by Aaron Lambert on Facebook, then the other by Aaron Nanto!!! Him and PCE Aarons don't have a good track record together! Both times he blamed the Aarons and their staff in a "Look-what-you-made-us-do?!" manner, never himself nor his deranged/destructive/doxxing toxic turbo troll gang which he covers up for under the "community" euphemism!

elmer

I didn't actually change the text colors at all ... just the background colors.

And the thing is, I don't get full freedom over what color is used for what.

The drop-shadow has to be color 8, because that's the only one that's a dark background color in all the different palettes (in-game, pause-menu, and Weapon Shop), and the code to draw the drop-shadow has to use a consistent color.

So, for the in-game palette, all I did was to change ...

          G R B
color 8 - 1 1 2 - background pattern color 1 (also drop-shadow)
color a - 3 0 4 - background pattern color 4 (highlight)
color c - 2 1 3 - background pattern color 3
color e - 1 1 1 - background pattern color 2


to ...

          G R B
color 8 - 0 0 1 - background pattern color 1 (also drop-shadow)
color a - 2 0 3 - background pattern color 4 (highlight)
color c - 1 0 2 - background pattern color 3
color e - 0 0 2 - background pattern color 2


I'm open to other color suggestions, but I'm pretty limited on how much I can change.