Any progress made (or even started) on a PC-FX RGB mod?

[incrediblehark]

Curious of whether or not this can be done in a similar way as the nes rgb board? I know this system isnt nearly as popular but i would love to get rgb from it. I haven't been around in a while so I may have missed out on a recent discovery.

[elmer]

Since the console palette is stored in YUV format internally (unlike every other console that I can think of), and all of the internal processing is in YUV instead of RGB (unlike every other console that I can think of) ... then I suspect that this would be an uphill battle.

If anyone had the interest (and skill) in doing it ... perhaps it would be possible to get component video out of the system, but I suspect that it wouldn't end up looking much/any better than the s-video output that's already on the console.

[Opethian]

wb hark

[NightWolve]

If anyone had the interest (and skill) in doing it ... perhaps it would be possible to get component video out of the system, but I suspect that it wouldn't end up looking much/any better than the s-video output that's already on the console.

Ah, so only a YPbPr/Component is possible. Very much worth it if you like the system IMO. Might be as easy as tapping and amplifying the output for Red-Y/Blue-Y (UV) sounds like, except for Luma/Y which you can just tap from the S-Video line and is ready-to-go.

When it came to the YPbPr mod for a 1st generation SNES, it made a big difference on my Panasonic 32" CRT which has both S-Video and Component. Better, vibrant colors, less shimmering, etc.

The circuitry can vary on the same TV set and a % will do a better job with a YPbPr signal versus S-Video. The other consideration is S-Video is phased out on new TV sets while a good % of them still support YPbPr. If the resolution is really 480i, then it should work with most sets. Problem is when it's a 240p signal, some sets will only accept that as Composite and reject it when you try to switch to YPbPr/Component mode. It's something you have to test.

[CrackTiger]

Then I guess that image quality is another knock against the PC-FX compared to PSX/Saturn. :/

Even if a vibrant and crystal clear image isn't possible, I'd still love any kind of improvement over the stock s-video.

[incrediblehark]

wb hark

Thanks! its good to be back finally, real life got in the way of Obey...

Interesting discussion about the YUV, when I was wondering if something similar could be done like the NES rgb board, it was because the original NES doesn't natively output rgb. a member on nesdev used an FPGA to grab the composite video from the PPU and converti it to rgb, his discovery eventually lead to an RGB board being developed. I know they are different hardware but would be nice if a similar approach could be taken with the PC-FX (and other non rgb systems). Of course the FX is a lot less popular than the NES so theres a lot less people out there developing anything for it I'm sure.

[thesteve]

that isnt actually what happened on the NES
the NES has a color pallet hardwired in the PPU and the nesrgb intercepts the data and mirrors the PPU pallet in an RGB capable device

[incrediblehark]

Thank you for the clarification. So I take it a similar approach couldn't be done because the pc-fx doesn't have a defined palette hardwired?

[SignOfZeta]

You'd be surprised what you can do to clean up composite or Y/C. It just requires that you buy hardware totally unrelated to all that RGB stuff you've been stockpiling.

[incrediblehark]

Since the console palette is stored in YUV format internally (unlike every other console that I can think of), and all of the internal processing is in YUV instead of RGB (unlike every other console that I can think of) ... then I suspect that this would be an uphill battle.

If anyone had the interest (and skill) in doing it ... perhaps it would be possible to get component video out of the system, but I suspect that it wouldn't end up looking much/any better than the s-video output that's already on the console.

So I was doing some research on this (and in no way am I any kind of expert on the matter) and elmer you sound like you are spot on. From what I have been reading in regards to YUV, RGB and Y/C, it sounds like a component connection from YUV in theory would give a better picture, but only slightly better than S video due to how the chrominance is handled in component compared to S-Video. and going from YUV to RGB through a transcoder or other conversion might yield the same results as the s-video anyway...

I'm wondering if the 3do handles its video processing with rgb even though it doesn't normally output rgb, and that is why a mod is possible using d/a converter where it is not possible on the pc-fx? I understand this is probably like comparing apples to oranges though.

[elmer]

I'm wondering if the 3do handles its video processing with rgb even though it doesn't normally output rgb, and that is why a mod is possible using d/a converter where it is not possible on the pc-fx? I understand this is probably like comparing apples to oranges though.

IIRC, the 3DO is RGB internally (unless it changed since the last time that I programmed on it).

[Arkhan Asylum]

It's not worth the idiotic amount of trouble it'd take.

I use PC-FX + SVIDEO through an upscaler and it looks fuckin' good.

There's literally no reason to bother unless you just want to be one of those gimps with a PVM with bad geometry that posts pics on Facebook going OMFG

R
G
B

huhuuuuuuu

and then proceeds to not even play the stuff because it's all digital comics.  lol




PC-FX outputs S-Video, and it looks good.   

I don't see any reason to bother with anything else.  Just buy a 10$ SVideo/Stereo Audio combo cable from gaydio shack, and never look back.

[16bitgium]

Well I have a PVM and S-video looks pretty rad on that monitor. Here in europe having S-video connections is more rare then RGB scart. So the PVM works out great for me!

[Arkhan Asylum]

Well I have a PVM and S-video looks pretty rad on that monitor. Here in europe having S-video connections is more rare then RGB scart. So the PVM works out great for me!

Well, there you go.   You don't need RGB if S Video looks rad on supposedly the best RGB monitor any human can ever own.

woooo.

[Koop]

There's literally no reason to bother unless you just want to be one of those gimps with a PVM with bad geometry that posts pics on Facebook going OMFG

I gotta admit, that hit me a little harder than I wanted. 

[NightWolve]

and then proceeds to not even play the stuff because it's all digital comics.  lol

Heh. Yeah, there's not much for most of us to ever care about... Just one shooter that is now fan-translated and that Miraculuum RPG (if playing them in Japanese is your thing)... :/

[Arkhan Asylum]

and then proceeds to not even play the stuff because it's all digital comics.  lol

Heh. Yeah, there's not much for most of us to ever care about... Just one shooter that is now fan-translated and that Miraculuum RPG (if playing them in Japanese is your thing)... :/

I'm all about Yuna and Boundary Gate.

and TEAM INNOCENT

AKA:  lolololopenthedoorandgetkilled.

[incrediblehark]

It's not worth the idiotic amount of trouble it'd take.

I use PC-FX + SVIDEO through an upscaler and it looks fuckin' good.

There's literally no reason to bother unless you just want to be one of those gimps with a PVM with bad geometry that posts pics on Facebook going OMFG

R
G
B

huhuuuuuuu

and then proceeds to not even play the stuff because it's all digital comics.  lol







PC-FX outputs S-Video, and it looks good.   

I don't see any reason to bother with anything else.  Just buy a 10$ SVideo/Stereo Audio combo cable from gaydio shack, and never look back.

Your S-Video looks a lot better than mine, I probably need to adjust some settings on my monitor to get it closer to what the rgb input looks like.

[Gypsy]

I am happy with PC-FX as is tbh.

The display and the quality of the cable matter. Plus like Zeta said, there is hardware to help composite and Y/C. Yes even SD sets there is stuff put out by Extron and Kramer. Like many other electronics I have, those have the benefit of being dirt cheap, because interest level in such things is relatively low.

Maybe Zeta can direct you to what he was referring to.

[SignOfZeta]

At the time I wrote that I was really into the Leitech DPS275 which was originally mainly designed to be a time base corrector and drop out compensator but now that it's dropped %90 in price it's a great thing for fans of SD video (especially LD) to clean shit up. It almost completely eliminates noise and it allows you to adjust the video quite a bit.

I'm not sure how much lag it introduces. I'm going to say somewhere around a frame and a half or so. I mainly used it for video. Mine actually croaked recently so...I think it may need a recap or something.

As for the Y/C vs component video, I'm with Arkham. On a game system there should be no obvious difference between them. Y/C's color information suffers but...on something as color-poor as a 16-bit game system...it really shouldn't matter. I'm currently running my CMVS in Y/C just because it's a much lighter cable to deal with and I can't see the difference on my pro monitor or my Toshiba TV. With the FX not even being RGB native in the first place it's safe to say that it's never going to look better than it does, excepting minor tweaks to the circuit, cap value changes and whatever.

On a DVD player, that's another matter.

IMO most people have biased opinions about video signal formats based on the performance of individual systems. I'm pretty sure the Genesis's rep for being "brown" is at least %25 due to its terrible composite out. Some systems have very good composite outs. Of the Classic era the SNES comes to mind (also looks rad in Y/C) and the PCE was decent. Half of the improvement you get by "going all RGB" you could see in composite if you improved the composite signal. I s-video modded my Genesis and when I did I never the signal was Night and Day better, even from the same chip for some reason...it stands to reason that an aftermarket NTSC encoder could make a MUCH better composite signal from the RGB out than the Genesis normal does internally.

These are observations based on early Genesis 1 machines with "the good sound".

[Gypsy]

Thanks for the reply.

One thing about using this is it requires more effort than just plugging in w/e cables one is using for RGB into their PVM or w/e. So that right there will have most people lean towards that option.

You piqued my curiosity though. There is a very reasonably priced 235 up for sale right now. There is a 275 but it's some asshole with $65 shipping (not to mention the much higher item cost) and blurry pictures so I can't even see what's different with the buttons.

Something like this seems like a good option for VHS and LD.

Edit: Seeing some 575s cheaper than that 275, ha.