I'll assume you already know what a Wonderswan is and what it looks like, if not just look it up...
You know, what first attracted me to the Wonderswan was its sound, it's basically the same kind of sound as the PC engine's PSG, except with only 4 channels instead of 6 and the waveforms are only 4 bit as opposed to 5 bit, but it still sounds fairly close, and I'm just glad to be able to play more 16 bit games that I hadn't played before with a similar sound to the PCE!
The first game I've played on the system was Guilty Gear Petit 2, which if you know me wouldn't be surprising at all, and oh my gosh what a start! My first impression was: "I should have tried this sooner!"
Needless to say I loved it! The controls are very responsive, it's really easy to combo in this game, but it's still fairly challenging, and the CPU will catch on if you spam the same move over and over and act accordingly! I've managed to beat it a few times and I'll definitely be playing this again and again!
The only problems I've had with this game are that the music isn't great, but it's passable, and the backgrounds are kind of ugly with an excessive use of dithering... The sprites are pretty nice though, I think they could be better-animated, but they're pretty cute!
This is an uncommonly good handheld fighter, very much worth playing if you're a fan of the genre!
After that I've played the first Guilty Gear Petit, and let's just say that it's basically the same game as the second, but worse in almost every way, it's not bad at all, but the sound effects are weaker, the controls are stiffer, it's harder to combo, but it's somehow a much easier game than the second because the CPU AI isn't as good... I'll give it this though, the backgrounds in this version are better than in the 2nd game! They've used dithering more sparingly so it looks much cleaner and more pleasing to the eyes, it's still there but its use makes much more sense now... Just stick with the 2nd game...
The next game I tried was Gunpey EX, which is the colour variant of the most famous game on the system, and you know, I'm not a big fan of puzzle games, but this one is pretty fun and very addictive! The concept is so simple, you just have to connect the two sides of the screen with lines by swapping tiles around, but the tiles move up and you have to keep them from reaching the top of the screen, you get extra points by connecting the two sides with multiple lines, this is one of the games that you have to play with the system in portrait mode, nice music too, even if it's all just pulse waves...
I'll try to keep the next few impressions brief for the sake of not bloating this post too much:
Pocket Fighter: Another quality fighter on the system! Shame it's not in colour... This is also one of the better-sounding games on the system, very nice music! (Even if it often relies on square waves) Loved it!
Rainbow Islands: It's played in Portrait mode, and it's not in colour (kind of ironic considering the title)
It's basically what you'd expect gameplay-wise, except you play as an anime girl instead of Eric Cartman, and there's a lot of dialogue that I can't read in between stages... Not bad! But they could have used more waveforms than just Square waves...
Makaimura: It's not a straight port of Ghosts and Goblins, it's its own original game in the series, and it's pretty good! It's only in black and white though, and the music could be better... It has parallax scrolling though! Did I mention the system has 2 BG layers? Yeah, but they often used the 2nd layer for the HUD so you still don't see parallax very often...
Rockman & Forte: Again, not a straight port of the SNES game, it's another original game in the series, and it's fine I guess... I'll certainly pick it over the NES games but I don't see myself returning to this one anytime soon... If you like Megaman though, you might like this one! B&W only, and it has parallax as well...
Star Hearts: A beautiful-looking and very nice-sounding Zelda clone where you control a native-american-looking boy or girl, there's a little too much dialogue for my liking, but I could still find my way to the first dungeon even without reading any of it... I wish the screen scrolled though, yeah it's flip-screen kinda like Zelda 1 and Neutopia, but it's still pretty good!
Mr. Driller: This was my introduction to the series, it's pretty nice! You just drill downwards as much as you can while trying not to run out of air or get crushed by falling blocks...
One Piece Grand Battle Swan Colosseum: It's an one-on-one platforming fighting game with VERY smooth animations! Very well-done graphics, don't remember the sound very well... It's fun enough, I'd rather it be a traditional fighting game, but it's not bad at all...
Beat Mania: No, I'm not kidding, they've ported this to the WonderSwan, and it's actually really damn impressive! They're playing relatively high quality PCM audio on the WonderSwan, and it sounds good! This is another one that's played in portrait mode, B&W only, I sucked at it, but yeah, it's a thing that exists, and I like it!
Final Lap Special: Impressive graphics, amusing for 2 minutes... If you like Final Lap Twin you might get a kick out of this, I don't think there's an RPG mode though... No music during gameplay, what a bummer!
Golden Axe: Sucks... But then again, I've never liked Golden Axe so I might not be the best person to judge this one...
Final Fantasy IV: This is basically the closest we've got to Final Fantasy IV on the PCE, everything you'd expect from a PCE port of that game is in here, it's only in Japanese though so of course, I couldn't go very far, but the music is nice! (Not SNES nice, but then again, what is?)
CardCaptor Sakura: OMG THEY MADE A CHIPTUNE VERSION OF CATCH YOU CATCH ME~♥
Not just that song, a lot of the show's soundtrack was covered, which means I had an unhealthy amount of fangasms, eargasms and nostalgiagasms in quick succession... Can you blame me though? This was my childhood anime! I just LOOOOVE Sakura~♥
Anyway, the game is basically Galaxy Fraulein Yuna but with a (black and white) Cardcaptor Sakura coat of paint, in other words, a text/graphic adventure game with barely any meaningful interactions where you just play to see the characters that you loved from the show doing their thing, except you can't read anything if you don't know Japanese, and you're gonna win anyway because the closest thing to a fail-state is losing a battle, which I haven't yet... I still love it though, but for the same reason why I love the Yuna games, not because it's a good game, but because I get to see more of the characters I was already attached to, and hear awesome music while I'm at it~♥
I've played some more games, but none that are note-worthy as of the time I'm making this post... I'd post some videos with soundtracks as well but there's barely any Wonderswan soundtracks on YouTube...
Oh well, just check these videos if you wanna see the thing in action:
http://youtu.be/zn5wyvSwSOk
http://youtu.be/fQdbUhzu4hU
So yeah, I've only just had a couple of days with the WonderSwan, but I feel that I've just found my new favourite non-Nintendo handheld! Not like there was much competition anyways... (No, I'm not counting the Nomad and the TurboExpress, those are a different can of worms)
For the record, I've also played the Game Gear, the Neo Geo Pocket Colour and the PSP, and of those the PSP was far and away the best one, but you know, the Wonderswan has that 16 bit appeal that I love so much~
Man, that's a good selection of games. You kinda have most of the stuff.
Wonderswan is 32-bit, btw.
The One Piece game was basically a prototype for the Jump fighting games on DS which are great.
I like Magical Drop a lot. It's b/w but otherwise very impressive. The NGP version is in color but the res is so much lower and all the characters look like fan art.
I also like Final Fantasy 1. It uses the spell system from the NES ver rather than magic points like all the other ports. The graphics look like SFC in wide screen.
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 11/17/2017, 04:51 PMWonderswan is 32-bit, btw.
Is it? Oh well... It does have 4bpp graphics though, and again, similar sound to the PCE, so even if it isn't 16 bit, like the PCE itself isn't, it still has that '16 bit appeal', you know what I mean...
But yeah, I've yet to play its version of FF1, but I've seen it so I know what to expect, I've played a LOT of Magical Drop on the SNES so this version sounds appealing enough to me!
I put my feelings about the WonderSwan near the end of a video I made that shows an educational portable that re-purposed the WS hardware:
http://youtu.be/uBbUwgXRmhY
http://youtu.be/uBbUwgXRmhY
My story with the Wonderswan goes like this:
Buys FF2-themed WonderSwan Color and a plain B&W system with a random assortment of games, some RPGs, some anime games, Rockman & Forte, GunPey... Sold it all out of disinterest.
A year later, notices there's a WonderSwan flash cart, buys it along with a SwanCrystal, tries out the best games the WonderSwan has to offer, sells it all out of disinterest.
Out of all the WS stuff I've had pass through my hands, I've only kept a blue WonderSwan Color and a complete copy of GunPey which is my favorite game for it. I wouldn't mind having One Piece Swan Colosseum again though. I also have a really beat up B&W WS but who would want it if I sold it?
The recurring theme in my experience is despite the cool hardware, there's hardly anything worthwhile to play on the WonderSwan. The glut of anime games and RPGs have a high language barrier and the usual suspect games from Capcom, Namco, Taito, Koei etc are typically expensive and generally speaking aren't worth writing home about. The flash cart makes the truly best games like Judgement Silversword affordable to play, but hardly any of it really stuck with me as must-haves. The only great exclusives I enjoyed were GunPey and One Piece Swan Colosseum.
Interesting, I'd never heard about these educational hardware variant things before...
You know, to be fair, I'm emulating the system, so I'm not having the most 'authentic' Wonderswan experience, but the games I have played on the system are pretty good for the most part! Shame the system itself doesn't seem to be of such high quality...
Although I kind of agree with the NGPC being kinda crap, I've played it quite a bit, and I found it to be rather underwhelming... The thing is that it's a supposed to be a "very capable" handheld for its time, and while it can put big sprites on-screen, and animate them pretty well, the graphics are pretty bleh for the most part, only 2bpp, most sprites are just black, white and a 3rd custom colour, so it generally doesn't look any better than what you can do on the GBC, even with its two BG layers, in fact, I've seen a few GBC games that look way better and are far more impressive than NGPC games, and the sound is weak, only square waves! It sounds like a Master System, the Game Boy sounds way better, and the Wonderswan even better than that! (Emulated at least)
Also
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 11/17/2017, 04:51 PMWonderswan is 32-bit, btw.
I looked it up, it has a 16 bit NEC V30 MZ @ 3.072MHz ;3
@HuMan I see... Well, thankfully I found some stuff on the system that I like, and my impressions are very positive thus far ;3
I love the Wonderswan. I just wish it was backlit.
Quote from: Ѕarumaru on 11/17/2017, 06:47 PMI love the Wonderswan. I just wish it was backlit.
I know how it is... I also wish the original GBA model was... At least I got an SP AGS-101 ;3
Quote from: Michirin9801 on 11/17/2017, 07:01 PMI also wish the original GBA model was... At least I got an SP AGS-101 ;3
The mod to put a light into the GBA original model is easish, I did it twice bitd and still have 2 after burners and 4 replacement screens for GBA. I love that system.
Wonderswan Color is great with a nice balance of aesthetics that appeals to 16-bit fans. It's worth getting just to play the Final Fantasy games, particularly I & II.
Quote from: guest on 11/17/2017, 08:02 PMWonderswan Color is great with a nice balance of aesthetics that appeals to 16-bit fans. It's worth getting just to play the Final Fantasy games, particularly I & II.
At least those two were fan-translated! I'd say it's worth it for more than just that though, see the original post...
It was one of the first systems that the local place around me imported games for... And I think they lasted for maybe 3 months before the neo geo pocket color came out and everyone traded them in.
I honestly never got enough into the system to actually sit down and play it so this thread is all a learning experience for me. I was also about 11 and completely broke when it hit, and at about $50 per game that was almost impossible.
Quote from: blueraven on 11/17/2017, 10:30 PMIt was one of the first systems that the local place around me imported games for... And I think they lasted for maybe 3 months before the neo geo pocket color came out and everyone traded them in.
People traded the Wonderswan in for the NGPC? Wow... I'd have done the opposite, but then again, I have hindsight (and emulation) in my favour >w>';
Quote from: Michirin9801 on 11/17/2017, 06:42 PMInteresting, I'd never heard about these educational hardware variant things before...
You know, to be fair, I'm emulating the system, so I'm not having the most 'authentic' Wonderswan experience, but the games I have played on the system are pretty good for the most part! Shame the system itself doesn't seem to be of such high quality...
Although I kind of agree with the NGPC being kinda crap, I've played it quite a bit, and I found it to be rather underwhelming... The thing is that it's a supposed to be a "very capable" handheld for its time, and while it can put big sprites on-screen, and animate them pretty well, the graphics are pretty bleh for the most part, only 2bpp, most sprites are just black, white and a 3rd custom colour, so it generally doesn't look any better than what you can do on the GBC, even with its two BG layers, in fact, I've seen a few GBC games that look way better and are far more impressive than NGPC games, and the sound is weak, only square waves! It sounds like a Master System, the Game Boy sounds way better, and the Wonderswan even better than that! (Emulated at least)
Also
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 11/17/2017, 04:51 PMWonderswan is 32-bit, btw.
I looked it up, it has a 16 bit NEC V30 MZ @ 3.072MHz ;3
I guess I don't know where I got the impression otherwise...sorry.
But hey, did you just say the Neo Geo Pocket was "crap"? Are you suffering from a massive head injury or something? Doesn't look any better than the GBC?!? You're nuts. Nuts. If its 1999 and you're buying games for both systems every month the difference is like chocolate and shit. I loved the GBC, but comparing it to NGP is...like I said, nuts. Its like comparing Genesis to Neo Geo. A subtle difference if any to the novice but very obvious to the game literate.
About the only thing I played on a Wonderswan were those Final Fantasy games and a Macross strategy game. I enjoyed the Macross games on the PCE much more.
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 11/17/2017, 11:40 PMBut hey, did you just say the Neo Geo Pocket was "crap"? Are you suffering from a massive head injury or something? Doesn't look any better than the GBC?!? You're nuts. Nuts. If its 1999 and you're buying games for both systems every month the difference is like chocolate and shit. I loved the GBC, but comparing it to NGP is...like I said, nuts. Its like comparing Genesis to Neo Geo. A subtle difference if any to the novice but very obvious to the game literate.
Find me an NGPC game that looks as good as this:
http://youtu.be/MoA6aF9tf2A
Or this:
http://youtu.be/4jvG4K5oeeM
And I'll eat my words... And then play it... (The GB will always sound better though)
FMV intros and line scrolling roads? Is that what have to beat? No problem.
I don't know how to embed Youtube videos here though...
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 11/18/2017, 12:16 AMFMV intros and line scrolling roads? Is that what have to beat? No problem.
I don't know how to embed Youtube videos here though...
Just remove the S from "https"
And it's not just the FMV or the line-scrolling roads, check out just how many scanline interrupts we've got going on in Wacky Races! Basically, one for every scanline, so it can not only do an Amiga-style gradient in the background, but also do high-colour sprites in the character selection screen, smoothly transition between different road types, fade in and out sprites from view as if there was actually fog on the roads, and make highly-colourful and detailed backgrounds by being able to use every palette on it before they even bother to draw the road, also the smoothly scaling big sprites with little-to-no noticeable flickering that use a much more varied palette than the regular NGPC sprites...
And Cannon Fodder also has pre-rendered pre-stage screens that look real nice, and the game itself looks pretty good as well... I'd also throw in Donkey Kong Country which looks pretty good on GBC, but that game just isn't impressive enough, Lucky Luke on the other hand is:
http://youtu.be/FCNicAnco6w
^This one has parallax scrolling in spots, highly colourful sprites, and some pretty smooth animations as well!
To be quite frank, both the NGPC and WSC may have had 16-bit CPUs and dual-layer playfields, but the low-bitplane graphics for both BGs and sprites in many games let the side down. Music too. Plus unimaginative game libraries and licensed dreck for the most part. People rave about fighting games on the NGP, and for the WS.... er, Gunpey... but I never liked either and that was about it. Libraries & systems were long ago sold off or given away as curios.
The only dedicated portable prior to the GBA that WOWed me was, of course, the Atari Lynx.
Quote from: ccovell on 11/18/2017, 01:15 AMTo be quite frank, both the NGPC and WSC may have had 16-bit CPUs and dual-layer playfields, but the low-bitplane graphics for both BGs and sprites in many games let the side down. Music too. Plus unimaginative game libraries and licensed dreck for the most part. People rave about fighting games on the NGP, and for the WS.... er, Gunpey... but I never liked either and that was about it. Libraries & systems were long ago sold off or given away as curios.
The only dedicated portable prior to the GBA that WOWed me was, of course, the Atari Lynx.
While I don't think the NGPC is a bad handheld by any means, I think it's not quite as good as it could (or should) be... The fighting games are nice, I like them, but the bland graphics with almost monochrome sprites really drag it down to me... The 2nd BG layer is nice, but instead of wowing me whenever there is parallax, I just get more disappointed whenever there isn't, and there often isn't...
And again, the soundchip, why so weak? Why only square waves? Give me a more robust sound!
The Wonderswan on the other hand, while the unit itself may not be of the highest quality, and the library is small and filled with licensed games, it does have its fair share of quality games! And the fighting games there are on the system, few as they may be, far surpass the NGPC's offerings! Honestly, I think the Wonderswan is what the NGPC should have been, I mean, what good is a 16 bit CPU when your graphics are still only 2bpp and your sound isn't any better than the SMS?
Show a less-informed gamer a Game Gear and an NGPC and ask them "Which one do you think is 8 bit and which is 16 bit?" and chances are they'll say the Game Gear is the 16 bit one, because at least that one has the 4bpp graphics to back it up, even if the colour count is actually lower and it lacks a 2nd scrolling plane...
And the Wonderswan's sound is good! The speaker may not be, but the sound hardware itself is, and games like Pocket Fighter and Star Hearts really show off how much better the WS sounds than even the Game Boy!
Also, the Lynx is another one that I haven't tried, but of all the Atari systems that one looks like the most interesting one, I mean, it does a lot of scaling and that's cool!
If you don't like fighters then the NGP isn't really for you.
The emulators don't really tell the story either. It ignores the NGP's 8 direction microswitch joystick, which actually makes playing all those fighting games possible.
http://youtu.be/g28B9ImIPCA
The Lynx was great but also several times more expensive than these systems and the battery life was not quite the same as the 50 hours you get from two AAs in the NGP and nearly half that with only one AA in the WS. This was the era of austere handheld gaming brought on by the realization that the weakest handheld had consistently crushed the completion full stop so power probabky didn't matter, especially when battery life was so bad you couldn't really leave the house with the backlit color stuff.
Screen tech is a huge thing too that doesn't come across in an emulator, with the Swan Cryrstal being vastly better than NGP and NGP better the GBC.
So these are some impressive looking games which look to be made probably further into the lifespan of the GBC than the NGP even existsed but I have to ask, which of these GBC games would you actually want to play? The FMV intro is cool but the game it's attached to doesn't look quite as fun as Metal Slug 2nd Mission. I have 200 hours into the *second* Card Fighters game which is longer than I've played any GBC game except Pokemon Pinball (which I was fantastical about for some reason) so I guess for me it's about the games and not so much the hardware but even the hardware is pretty great. The GBC's fighting games are a flickering unplayable joke compared to Match of the Millennium or Gals Fighters of Last Blade. Warioware pretty much jacked it's thing from Ganbare Neo Poke-kun* (which has some great tech demo mini games in it). You have to spend actual time with the games to understand this though and actual money helps. I was an avid customer of NGP and GBC at the time and the comparisons were constant and always one sided against GBC's 80s past. Aparently after I ditched GBC and more of the clear carts (GBC only) started coming out the bling blong went sky high but you can't tell me that Toy Story game looks like something worth owning a system for.
* I wish I could explain Neo Poke-kun but its just fucking impossible. You have to live with it for life to understand it. Its genius, realer than real.
Quote from: Michirin9801 on 11/18/2017, 01:40 AMAnd the Wonderswan's sound is good! The speaker may not be, but the sound hardware itself is, and games like Pocket Fighter and Star Hearts really show off how much better the WS sounds than even the Game Boy!
What I remember reading is that the WS multiplexes its 4 channels' outputs through PWM at a high rate (similar to the Namco 163) but this is still quite audible. On the actual WS hardware, the PWM audio is passed through to the piezeo speaker as-is, but the headphone attachment contains a lowpass filter to take out the PWM aliasing. So it sounds good ONLY IF you purchase the official headphone adaptor.
Quote from: Michirin9801 on 11/18/2017, 01:40 AMWhile I don't think the NGPC is a bad handheld by any means, I think it's not quite as good as it could (or should) be...
Didn't you just agree it was "kinda crap" , and say it was "underwhelming", lol.
Maybe you just mean the hardware is OK, and the games suck? I don't know.
It's true that if you don't want to play a fighting game, there's hardly a point to owning a NGPC.
Without it, I was stuck with Fist of the Northstar and Mortal Kombat for Gameboy as portable fighting. What a disaster my life was.
In any event, I find that comparing any handheld crap in emulators is kind of stupid. You need to be comparing the real-things. It's like people playing Virtual Boy games in an emulator and going OH I DIDN'T GET A HEADACHE.
Lucky you, lol.
Half this crap, if you're playing it an emulator, you're literally playing a watered down version of a different game you could also be emulating.
The magic was in the fact that this thing was in your pocket, and you could play it at holiday functions instead of listening to your weird cousins talk about dumb shit. It's rare that I ever used SuperGameboy or GBA player for anything outside of an RPG at home.
The modern equivalent of that is how I plug my PSP into my TV so I don't have to sit staring at my crotch for 12 hours while I play an RPG on that thing. otherwise, I'm probably just playing a PS3/4 game.
QuoteThe fighting games are nice, I like them, but the bland graphics with almost monochrome sprites really drag it down to me... The 2nd BG layer is nice, but instead of wowing me whenever there is parallax, I just get more disappointed whenever there isn't, and there often isn't...
And again, the soundchip, why so weak? Why only square waves? Give me a more robust sound!
(You don't need 2 BG layers for parallax. Parallax and layered scrolling aren't the same thing. They just go together nicely.)
All handhelds basically had goony sound until the GBA. The Wonderswan was a bit exceptional but still not like it was mindblowingly better than even the regular Gameboy.
Lynx and GameGear sounded blerpy too. It all sounded blerpy. Even Wonderswan's sorta ho-hum.
When you're hearing this stuff blaring out of a handheld speaker without headphones, this stuff mostly doesn't matter.
The screens were tiny, not backlit, and often played in poorly lit living rooms or cars, or outside in direct sunlight. The things you are complaining about are things you only notice when you sit and compare them in an emulator.
I think if you had these in your hands, you'd barely give two shits either way and would mostly care about which games were better. You'd probably be unimpressed with all of it compared to an SP.
The fighting games on NGPC , and stuff like cardfighters clash had really clean, contrasty, nice looking visuals on those screens. It definitely had a nice visual pop to it while playing, and ultimately, that was really important. Later games and stuff on the GBA actually became more difficult to see because it was still not backlit, but now you have more shading and such. The pop went away.
Neither the NGPC (outside of the fighting games) or Wonderswan is really that amazing. They had their interesting/neat games, and they were fun enough to have.
Though, I didn't like Wonderswan's buttons. They are gross.
however, ultimately, everything generally fell back to the original gameboy. Everything came and went, the original Gameboy somehow kicked everything's ass, and then the GBA showed up, wasn't backlit, we all still bought them with Xmas/Birthday money like the dumbfucks that we were, and it was fun even though we could barely see these new fancy graphics.
and then, you put it in your pocket and scratch the screen and go "ah shit", and then you see the SP release and want to lay down on a freeway.
The Gameboy Color was stupid. I bought that thing the day it came out, and it was stupid. I shoved Final Fantasy Adventure in and went "This is it?". Links Awakening DX ? "Why did I buy this, this is stupid", lol.
but then I sat and played it for hours. and hours. and hours. It was fun. It was also small. and it was that cool clear purple stuff.
I do not understand how/why the Gameboy+Pocket+Color basically annihilated everything in it's path. It just did. It didn't look or sound the best, but it won. I think it was mostly because of the sheer number of available games that satisfied people's need for some kind of coherent action / whatever game on the go. The library had it all (except fighters, lol).
Maybe we were dumb. I don't know. I used to hold a flashlight in my mouth to see what the fuck was going on in games. Those click on lights/magnifiers were idiotic as hell. I remember trying to play in the dark, using passing streetlights to fumble through FF Legend #1.
QuoteShow a less-informed gamer a Game Gear and an NGPC and ask them "Which one do you think is 8 bit and which is 16 bit?" and chances are they'll say the Game Gear is the 16 bit one, because at least that one has the 4bpp graphics to back it up, even if the colour count is actually lower and it lacks a 2nd scrolling plane...
So, PC-E is 8-bit, and it looks better than both.
but, chances are they will say Gamegear because it's backlit, they can see what the fuck is going on, and you're probably showing them Columns or Sonic, so they'll just assume things.
(Oh hey, NGPC had a cool Sonic game)
A less informed gamer probably has no idea what 4bpp or background plane even means, so I hope you wouldn't expect to even say those words at them.
Here's my take on the NGPC and Wonderswan (I used to have both)
http://youtu.be/MXKLWEvRO1c
vs.
http://youtu.be/uTTnZmx4LQw
Visually, Wonder Stadium looks a little better, but that music is itchy. and Baseball Stars played better.
Looking back, I played alot of Golf on Gameboy. Just plain ass Golf. and Baseball. Some real in depth naming from Nintendo there.
Mario Golf on GBC didn't look great at all compared to Nice On or Neo Turf Masters, but that didn't stop me from playing it endlessly, either.
and I don't even like Golf. I hate golf. I don't know why I like Golf games.
anyway, I think the takeaway is Wonderswan's just another thing that got steamrolled by gameboy, with a handful of cool shit, and gross buttons.
The Swan Crystal has a screen as good as the NGPC but wider. The original Color Swan was a massively blurry mess. I swear there must be 400ms of latency in that LCD. Anything static looks fine but moving things look like some cable access FX was applied. In a game where the entire screen scrolls with the character, the character is visable but the background almost vansishes. The Crystal fixed this completely.
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 11/18/2017, 02:12 AMIf you don't like fighters then the NGP isn't really for you.
I bloody LOVE fighting games! I've played practically every colour fighting game the NGPC has to offer (but not the black and white ones) and while they certainly have bigger and more smoothly animated sprites than the GBC, and a 2nd BG layer (which was often just used on the HUD so there was no parallax) those were the only real advantage they have, at least from a hardware perspective... What really drags it down to me is the fact that every single character in every single one of them is just black, white and a 3rd custom colour... While it is true that GBC fighting games aren't as good, it's really not that hard to find GBC games which look better than NGPC games due to having more colourful characters, and since the tiles are still only 2bpp, the colour density in the backgrounds isn't any higher than the GBC...
What
really drags the NGPC down to me though is the sound, I just can't stress how much of a difference having varied waveforms makes, and the NGPC doesn't have that, it's all just square waves and white noise, that's weak! It's this weak sound that makes it truly underwhelming to me...
Now, I haven't played on a real GBC, so I don't know how bad its screen was, I've played those games on the GBA SP and on the 3DS, so maybe the NGPC looked better back then because it had a better screen, but if we look at the games for what they are, not necessarily having to compare the actual handhelds, NGPC games look about on-par with GBC games, maybe a little better sometimes, sounds are definitely worse, but the GBC had the fortune of having its hardware pushed to hell and back by some very smart devs, (probably because it was so much more popular) so it has a lot of games that are
really impressive-looking...
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 11/18/2017, 02:12 AMSo these are some impressive looking games which look to be made probably further into the lifespan of the GBC than the NGP even existsed but I have to ask, which of these GBC games would you actually want to play?
I play all of them ;3
They're actually really fun! Except for Lucky Luke using B to jump and A to attack, that's just rubbish...
Quote from: guest on 11/18/2017, 08:41 AMDidn't you just agree it was "kinda crap" , and say it was "underwhelming", lol.
Maybe you just mean the hardware is OK, and the games suck? I don't know.
I mean the games are fine but the hardware is kinda crap... The thing about the NGPC is that its weaknesses are much more pronounced than the GBC's, at least in emulation...
Quote from: guest on 11/18/2017, 08:41 AMIn any event, I find that comparing any handheld crap in emulators is kind of stupid. You need to be comparing the real-things. It's like people playing Virtual Boy games in an emulator and going OH I DIDN'T GET A HEADACHE.
Lucky you, lol.
Half this crap, if you're playing it an emulator, you're literally playing a watered down version of a different game you could also be emulating.
The magic was in the fact that this thing was in your pocket, and you could play it at holiday functions instead of listening to your weird cousins talk about dumb shit. It's rare that I ever used SuperGameboy or GBA player for anything outside of an RPG at home.
The modern equivalent of that is how I plug my PSP into my TV so I don't have to sit staring at my crotch for 12 hours while I play an RPG on that thing. otherwise, I'm probably just playing a PS3/4 game.
I get this point, but I'm enthralled by less capable hardware, anything more powerful than a GBA pretty much ceases to impress me, at least when it comes to 2D...
For example, you'd think I'd hate playing the GBC version of Donkey Kong Country, but I think that version, while not ideal because of its wonky controls, is thoroughly fascinating! They've put Donkey Kong Country on an 8 bit handheld! And it looks the part, it kinda sounds the part, and it's pretty much feature-complete! That's awesome! Will I pick this version over the SNES original? Nope... But I will pick Guilty Gear Petit 2 on the Wonderswan over the original game on PlayStation ;3
And perhaps even Pocket Fighter as well, even if it's in black and white, but that version sounds nice~
Quote from: guest on 11/18/2017, 08:41 AM(You don't need 2 BG layers for parallax. Parallax and layered scrolling aren't the same thing. They just go together nicely.)
I know, but when you have 2 BG layers to work with, and you don't do parallax, then unless you have a damn good reason (like having a top-down view for example) then I think you're not doing your game any favours...
Quote from: guest on 11/18/2017, 08:41 AMAll handhelds basically had goony sound until the GBA. The Wonderswan was a bit exceptional but still not like it was mindblowingly better than even the regular Gameboy.
Lynx and GameGear sounded blerpy too. It all sounded blerpy. Even Wonderswan's sorta ho-hum.
When you're hearing this stuff blaring out of a handheld speaker without headphones, this stuff mostly doesn't matter.
The Game Gear and the NGPC have basically the same sound, but the Game Boy was like a whole step and a half above those two, and the Wonderswan was yet another step and a half above the Game Boy, yeah the difference from the WS to the GB isn't mind-blowing, especially not when so many games insisted in using just square waves, but the few games that really took advantage of the sound hardware managed to sound pretty good!
I'm not too sure about the Lynx but I think that one is capable of playing samples, so that's nice...
Quote from: guest on 11/18/2017, 08:41 AMThe screens were tiny, not backlit, and often played in poorly lit living rooms or cars, or outside in direct sunlight. The things you are complaining about are things you only notice when you sit and compare them in an emulator.
I think if you had these in your hands, you'd barely give two shits either way and would mostly care about which games were better. You'd probably be unimpressed with all of it compared to an SP.
The fighting games on NGPC , and stuff like cardfighters clash had really clean, contrasty, nice looking visuals on those screens. It definitely had a nice visual pop to it while playing, and ultimately, that was really important. Later games and stuff on the GBA actually became more difficult to see because it was still not backlit, but now you have more shading and such. The pop went away.
Yeah, I didn't have that experience, but that doesn't mean that my own experience with these systems, as 'unauthentic' as it may be, is not any less valid... I think emulating systems like these helps breathe new life into them, especially if you're like me and you're more interested in more limited hardware, emulating these systems helps you better appreciate the games for what they are, without having to deal with an unlit screen, a low-quality speaker and crappy buttons...
Quote from: guest on 11/18/2017, 08:41 AMhowever, ultimately, everything generally fell back to the original gameboy. Everything came and went, the original Gameboy somehow kicked everything's ass, and then the GBA showed up, wasn't backlit, we all still bought them with Xmas/Birthday money like the dumbfucks that we were, and it was fun even though we could barely see these new fancy graphics.
and then, you put it in your pocket and scratch the screen and go "ah shit", and then you see the SP release and want to lay down on a freeway.
The Gameboy Color was stupid. I bought that thing the day it came out, and it was stupid. I shoved Final Fantasy Adventure in and went "This is it?". Links Awakening DX ? "Why did I buy this, this is stupid", lol.
but then I sat and played it for hours. and hours. and hours. It was fun. It was also small. and it was that cool clear purple stuff.
I do not understand how/why the Gameboy+Pocket+Color basically annihilated everything in it's path. It just did. It didn't look or sound the best, but it won. I think it was mostly because of the sheer number of available games that satisfied people's need for some kind of coherent action / whatever game on the go. The library had it all (except fighters, lol).
The Game Boy won because of Tetris and Pokemon... In my opinion these are
FAR from the best games on the system, but these two really helped cement the Game Boy's place as the most popular handheld... True, it may not have looked or sounded the best, but everyone had it, everyone wanted to play Tetris in its early days, and Pokemon in its later days, but the system was still good enough to play Mario, Zelda, Final Fantasy, Mega Man and what not, so why not put out games on the system that everyone already had? Some of us will buy and play all of the game systems, but most people will just stick with the first one they get, and for most people that was the Game Boy...
Mode 7/pixelization isn't a good art style and is only impressive on a technical level when you're told that it's challenging for the hardware. Genuine artwork and pixelart is infinitely more impressive and enjoyable.
Gameboy Color is significantly superior hardware compared to the original Gameboy, but the games we got make it feel inferior to Neo Geo Pocket Color in every way except sound, but it happens to have one of my favorite chip sounds.
GBC games feel full of compromises, the way that 8-bit console ports do. The NGPC games don't feel like they're making any compromises.
Even in the most impressive GBC games, it looks and feels like sprites are distorted and in funky shapes and sizes because of sprite limitations. Even with compromised sprites, flicker is common. You also get a feel for when there aren't more sprites onscreen overall because there can't be and a lot of action leads to slowdown.
Sprites in NGPC games feel like their sizes were chosen for what works best on the small screen and were drawn the way the artist wanted. The pixelart for sprites and backgrounds doesn't look or feel like its built around restrictions. Some games toss around enough sprites and action that it would be impressive in a 16-bit console game. All without noticeable flicker or slowdown.
I don't know what the color palettes or restrictions are for these systems, but GBC games tend to use gaudier colors and feel like they're held back by bottlenecks. NGPC games have smoother/subtler/softer coloring and stark contrast in certain elements look and feel like it's to make things like a player sprite stand out on the limited screen.
GBC game backgrounds look and feel noticeable tiled, like <medium sized NES games. NGPC game backgrounds don't look or feel like they have any limitations at all and often feature less tiled than 16-bit console games.
GBC games look and feel like it can't handle too much sprite animation at a time. NGPC games look and feel like everything can be highly animated without challenge.
It's fair to say that the difference between GBC games and NGPC games is similar to the difference between 16-bit console games and Neo Geo games. And this is with the GBC's massive success leading to it being pushed much further by top developers, while the NGPC has just getting started.
I picked up a Wonderswan color when it came out along with FF1. It was kinda fun for a while; I was taking Japanese in college at the time so I used that as an excuse to justify the purchase. In the end I only wound up with a few other games. FF2, 4, Blue Wing Blitz, Rockman and Forte, and a couple of Gundam games. I later got a Wonderswan black and white for really cheap but never got a Crystal. The system was neat but I didn't make much use out of it as games were annoying to get ahold of and there weren't that many options that I was interested in.
I loved NGPC fighting games for the novelty of being able to play a fighting game with reasonably good control on the go. The games had robust combo engines and played much better than you would expect. Obviously I'd prefer if they had put four buttons on the thing; I always thought that was a glaring oversight. As most of the games on the platform that people wanted were fighting games based off of a 4 button arcade machine it just seems that you'd naturally want to put in the extra two buttons. Aside from the buttons, the only thing that ever bugged my about the NGPC fighters was that you generally had black, white, clear, and 1 accent color per sprite. I'm not sure if every color pallet included the first three colors or just the clear color but either way I always thought that a game could look Really cool if instead of one sprite you would layer two sprites on top of each other to make for 6 colors per dude. If SNK had taken a fighter with a smaller roster (say, Last Blade perhaps?) and thrown extra effort into making everything have more colors then that would have been pretty cool.
My favorite games that weren't fighters were Metal Slug and Sonic. I gladly purchased Bust a Move and played for a bit but as much as I wanted to love the game it was just too hard to see the different colors on that screen in all but perfect lighting. After those though, I was always intrigued by Ogre Battle. I loved the SNES game and I thought the NGPC version was really neat. It was very hard to understand the dialog as it used no kanji and didn't put spaces in the text at all but it played well.
After being pretty much unable to figure out what they were saying in Ogre Battle, I wanted some RPGs for the platform to come out in English. Though I hadn't known of its impending release, I read about Faselei being canned when SNK went bankrupt and thought that was it and there never would be any RPGs in English. Some years passed and I was at a Hastings (video rental chain in the south) and I saw sets of NGPCs for sale with 4 games for something like $80. They didn't have their original packaging but instead were in a clear plastic container. While looking them over I saw one set came with Faselei so I, of course, picked it up. I think I booted the game up once; maybe I'll go back and try to finish it at some point but by the time that was released the sting of not having an RPG on NGPC had gone away and it was mostly just a thing of curiosity and not something that I actually wanted to play.
@CrackTiger, sure, if you think that way it's fine, but gameplay footage or images speak louder than words, show me an NGPC game that looks better than Wacky Racers, Lucky Luke or Cannon Fodder...
Heck, I'll even throw in Dragon Quest III, although this is not the ideal version of the game, and the sprites are just black, white and an accent colour (which makes it look more like an NGPC game) the overworld backgrounds look brilliant! They look almost 16 bit! And in the battles, while there are no backgrounds, which is a real bummer IMO and what ultimately turns me off of this version, they've still managed to animate all of the enemies, and with more than one animation per enemy!
http://youtu.be/mgrswUhfq-w
(There's a battle at 27:46)
Dragon Quest I + II also looks pretty good, DQ1 even has backgrounds during battles (because it only has to render 1 enemy per battle so it can use the rest of the layer to put something interesting in there for you to look at) it doesn't animate the enemies, but I think the sprites look even better because they're more colourful, and the overworld backgrounds still look pretty good! Even if not quite as good as III's...
Quote from: seieienbu on 11/18/2017, 03:30 PMI always thought that a game could look Really cool if instead of one sprite you would layer two sprites on top of each other to make for 6 colors per dude. If SNK had taken a fighter with a smaller roster (say, Last Blade perhaps?) and thrown extra effort into making everything have more colors then that would have been pretty cool.
That would have been sick!
I think that Wacky Races game looks like shit and no fun, personally so it's hard to "beat it". When you see Gals Fighters or Last Blade running on real hardware then you've actually seen the thing. As BT said, the NGP does what it did with confidence and ease. There is almost no flicker in the entire NGP library and games got slightly smoother every few months. Gal's Fighters being the smoothest and R-1 or Fatal Fury being the roughest but every single fighter on NGP looks better than any fighter on GBC. Even during the GBA era when they could do much more complicated games I'd still take the NGP because a perfectly playing simple game is better than something that barely runs and only has half its buttons.
You're obsession with specs is weird. I think maybe people who plow through massive ROM libraries in emulators for handhelds without ever actually touching the real thing might have a slightly fucked outlook because of it.
NGPC was always pretty cool. Gotta love Card Fighters, Mega Man Power Battles, Metal Slug 2 and Sonic!
Haven't played enough of the Wonderswan to be honest, but it's definitely more of a weeby console. I'm a big one piece fan, and while Swan Coliseum looks really nice, it feels more like a 2nd rate Smash Bros.
Judgement Silversword is cool but it's hardcore bullet hell. The Ghouls n Ghosts game is crazy slow.
The WS is like the PCE and the FX in one. The earlier period was dominated by action games which are now expensive and the later more tech capable titles are dumb menu driven anime crap. :)
Liking fighters is a prerequisite to NGP fandom, liking whatever anime Bandai has licensing rights to is kinda helpful for Swan enjoyment.
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 11/18/2017, 06:29 PMYou're obsession with specs is weird. I think maybe people who plow through massive ROM libraries in emulators for handhelds without ever actually touching the real thing might have a slightly fucked outlook because of it.
The thing that the NGPC is probably the worst at is being a system to go through and play every ROM for 30 seconds before making a "this is cool" or "this sucks" comment and then moving on. Perhaps you played all the fighting games but really, how much can you learn playing a fighting game like that? The genre isn't intended to be glanced and, played against the CPU for one match, then move on to the next one. Playing the library in such a way is a disservice to yourself.
Beyond that, actually holding an NGPC and seeing what it can do when compared to what came both before and after is what makes the system special in my view. There's really nothing comparable to NGPC on any handheld hardware that came before it. When I tried playing Mortal Kombat on GB/GG or Street Fighter 2 on GB I instantly saw how inferior and unplayable those games were. Playing those on car trips/whatever while I was a kid was miserable; I really wanted Street Fighter on the go but it just didn't work. I might have given up on all hope for a good way to play handheld fighting games at all except I finally got to play on the D-pad for the NGPC made specifically with fighters in mind. Beyond that, the games were built from the ground up to take advantage of the platform's controls and suddenly I had something that is not only playable but also very fun.
Shortly after the NGPC came SF2 Revival, SFA3, and a few others on GBA and I'm once again back to playing a game on a platform that sucks at the game I'm trying to play. The last handheld fighter I played was on PSP; I played Darkstalkers Chronicles briefly and then called it quits quickly due to how horrible the game felt. The NGPC was the best at what it was trying to be good at. It's still fun to play those games today which is far more than I can say for a lot of platforms. No, it doesn't have the largest game library and it isn't a perfect system even for the era but what it did well was make playing portable fighting games fun.
If you like fighting games as a genre and are willing to experiment with old school platforms then I would highly recommend you pick up an NGPC on the cheap and a couple of fighters before making any decision on whether or not it is "kinda crap." Play for a while, explore the game engines, see how easy it is to get the character to use the move you intend for them to use. There's a lot to enjoy on the system and particularly in that genre.
Why do you assume I've plown through the library and played just each game for 5 minutes before deciding whether it's good or bad? I've been playing the NGPC for quite a while now, I've played many of its titles multiple times, I'm fairly familiar with what they're like, and yeah, the fighters are mechanically sound and well-made, but due to its poor sound, low bit depth graphics and almost monochrome sprites, I've generally felt rather underwhelmed by the system...
And yes, the NGPC has better fighting games than the GBC, I never said otherwise, and I love fighting games as well, but the quality of fighting games aside, I don't feel that the NGPC is any more technically or graphically impressive than the GBC, even if it is more capable...
And honestly, as good as the NGPC fighting games may be, I still thought Guilty Gear Petit 2 and Pocket Fighter on the Wonderswan were better than pretty much everything the NGPC had to offer, and I didn't even have to play them for over a week to form that opinion...
And the GBA fighters, SF2 Revival and KoF EX2 in particular, wipe the floor with the NGPC... If you prefer the NGPC's control stick, that's fine, but I've been playing on D-pads my entire life, and the GBA SP has one of my favourite D-pads ever, I like it because it's clicky so it's more precise and I can consistently pull off my special moves in it, and I sure as hell can't say that about an arcade stick because I'm not a fan of them...
The GBA doesn't even have enough buttons to play Street Fighter. The idea is a joke.
The NGP is the only system I'll play a 2D fighter on. 3D stuff that's mostly button sequences and tapping I can do on PSP no problem but the NGP is the only system I can land a ground FAB with 'Gief in. That's not a minor detail, it's critical.
I can't say I've had many experiences with these systems. but I always felt like the NGP and wonderswan are pretty neat for what they are. I wish more systems got the library that the BC + GBC got. maybe we'd look at these systems somewhat differently if they had more games and were more accessible. but sometimes also the lack of this makes systems enjoyable on a whole other level. So I think you take the good and the bad and have fun with them all as much as you can.
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 11/18/2017, 08:51 PMit's critical.
http://youtu.be/DjHv2zPO-7U
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 11/18/2017, 08:51 PMThe GBA doesn't even have enough buttons to play Street Fighter. The idea is a joke.
The only idea that's a joke is this notion that "you need X amount of buttons to play Y kind of game"
As you know, there are
plenty of excellent fighters that only use 2 buttons, and heck even only ONE button, the game just has to be designed for this kind of control scheme, and Street Fighter can absolutely work with only two buttons, let alone 4, yes it's not going to be the same as the 6 button version, but it can work, and as the GBA proves, it can work REALLY well...
Quote from: Michirin9801 on 11/18/2017, 09:11 PMQuote from: SignOfZeta on 11/18/2017, 08:51 PMThe GBA doesn't even have enough buttons to play Street Fighter. The idea is a joke.
and heck even only ONE button
???? but they don't exist?
Quote from: Michirin9801 on 11/18/2017, 09:11 PMQuote from: SignOfZeta on 11/18/2017, 08:51 PMThe GBA doesn't even have enough buttons to play Street Fighter. The idea is a joke.
The only idea that's a joke is this notion that "you need X amount of buttons to play Y kind of game"
As you know, there are plenty of excellent fighters that only use 2 buttons, and heck even only ONE button, the game just has to be designed for this kind of control scheme, and Street Fighter can absolutely work with only two buttons, let alone 4, yes it's not going to be the same as the 6 button version, but it can work, and as the GBA proves, it can work REALLY well...
I wasn't speaking in the abstract. You need six buttons to play a port of a six button game. There is no substitute. If the game is properly redesigned for fewer buttons (ie: all NGP fighters) then it works fine. You're probably not a mega hardcore fighting game fan if you're cool with missing 1/3 of the basic moves in order to have more color in the sprites.
Quote from: guest on 11/18/2017, 11:34 PM???? but they don't exist?
Check out Shadow Fighter on the Amiga...
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 11/18/2017, 06:29 PMYou're obsession with specs is weird. I think maybe people who plow through massive ROM libraries in emulators for handhelds without ever actually touching the real thing might have a slightly fucked outlook because of it.
Yep.
Quote from: Michirin9801Yeah, I didn't have that experience, but that doesn't mean that my own experience with these systems, as 'unauthentic' as it may be, is not any less valid... I think emulating systems like these helps breathe new life into them, especially if you're like me and you're more interested in more limited hardware, emulating these systems helps you better appreciate the games for what they are, without having to deal with an unlit screen, a low-quality speaker and crappy buttons...
Unfortunately, as much as you don't like it and are trying to justify otherwise, your experience with these machines IS less valid, because you are not actually playing the systems. You damned yourself while trying to justify it by admitting it is unauthentic.
It's not like emulating a console where you can USB-a-controller, and fanagle it into being close enough.
There were 3rd party controllers left and right anyways. and various TVs/sound systems/etc. one might use when using say, a Megadrive. Emulating a home console has reached the point where you can basically faithfully recreate everything.
Dealing with the tiny unlit screens, possibly shitty buttons, and portable speakers is part of what truly forms an opinion of these machines. That is the real experience. Until you've tried playing them in a moving car, or in shitty lighting, you are missing out. Until you've frantically tried getting to a savepoint or password screen because the batteries are about to shit-out on you, you're also missing out. 90s handheld gaming was basically our Vietnam.
You're foregoing all that to just compare the software, and a bunch of technical-spec wanking that reeks of 'phile tendencies and throws practicality out the window.
You're not "breathing new life" into them by emulating them. You're basically just playing shittier versions of games when you don't need to be.
We were playing Gameboy/NGPC and downgraded games because Supaboys and shit weren't invented yet. If we had the option to take SNES portably around, we would have.
Turbo Express/Sega Nomad were fuckin cool and ahead of their time. It's a shame their battery lives were not.
What you need to do is emulate a NGPC on a tiny LCD screen with the brightness set to 5%, smash one of your speakers with a hammer, and sit in direct sunlight.
Quote from: Michirin9801 on 11/18/2017, 09:11 PMThe only idea that's a joke is this notion that "you need X amount of buttons to play Y kind of game"
As you know, there are plenty of excellent fighters that only use 2 buttons, and heck even only ONE button, the game just has to be designed for this kind of control scheme, and Street Fighter can absolutely work with only two buttons, let alone 4, yes it's not going to be the same as the 6 button version, but it can work, and as the GBA proves, it can work REALLY well...
"REALLY well" is what we call "a FUCKING stretch". It worked, but it's clumsy and goes against how anyone who is used to Street Fighter is going to expect to be playing the game.
Downsizing control schemes of 6 button fighters is pretty lacking. There is a reason people buy Ave6 pads.
It's fine when the game was intended to be a 2 button fighter.
NGPC fighters were basically an anomaly in that their design + the NGPC itself made them work well. However, they're still doofy compared to the real deal, which again goes back to my point that you're emulating watered down stuff when you don't need to, lol.
and as Zeta said, I am thinking you aren't really a hardcore fighting game fan. Liking playing them and bopping your way through them successfully is not quite the same thing.
It's like kids screaming about loving skateboarding as they putz around a driveway or alleyway, without ever dropping into a halfpipe, or flying through the air off a ramp. It's a whole different world, and you sort of sound like you have a lack of understanding of the borderline 'tism shit that goes on with fighting games.
Also, those 1 button fighters are dogshit. That stuff is for potatoes. Most experiences on the Amiga are basically dogshit compared to anything else at the time. Generally, the people who talk about how great that stuff is are actually just talking about how the visuals and sounds were, because the games themselves play pretty piss-poor almost always.
http://youtu.be/Wb6VvtAcmb8http://youtu.be/KMNTcG4OvqElol.
Some years ago, using only a meager crappy cell phone I made a video comparing the three Wonderswan models after having just obtained a SwanCrystal at the time.
Here is the result: http://youtu.be/h78NITFZJmU
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 11/18/2017, 11:41 PMI wasn't speaking in the abstract. You need six buttons to play a port of a six button game.
No you don't
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 11/18/2017, 11:41 PMIf the game is properly redesigned for fewer buttons (ie: all NGP fighters) then it works fine.
Because of that exactly!
Pocket Fighter and the GBC port of Street Fighter Alpha managed to translate Street Fighter's Control scheme to two buttons, you might be missing some move variants, but they both still work as very decent fighters, and since the GBA has 4 buttons you can get even more move variants in there!
Quote from: guest on 11/19/2017, 02:58 AMUnfortunately, as much as you don't like it and are trying to justify otherwise, your experience with these machines IS less valid, because you are not actually playing the systems. You damned yourself while trying to justify it by admitting it is unauthentic.
No, it's NOT less valid, it's different, but I've played the games, therefore I can have an opinion about them.
Quote from: guest on 11/19/2017, 02:58 AMYou're not "breathing new life" into them by emulating them. You're basically just playing shittier versions of games when you don't need to be.
We were playing Gameboy/NGPC and downgraded games because Supaboys and shit weren't invented yet. If we had the option to take SNES portably around, we would have.
I don't have to "need" to play a handheld version of a console or arcade game to be interested in it and enjoy playing it, and if the game is good, but trapped on a handheld that has an unlit screen, a crappy speaker and wonky buttons, you ARE breathing new life into it by emulating it, because you can then better appreciate the game for what it is! It served its purpose on being a handheld version of a "better" game back then, but if it's still good, there's still reason to play it!
Also, this notion completely undermines the system exclusives, here's an example, Guilty Gear Petit 2 is an original Wonderswan Colour game, and it's already become my favourite in the series thus far! Granted I've only played 5 other games in the series, most of them on handhelds, so I could still maybe find another game in the series that I like even better whenever I get around to playing more, but right now, I like that game better than the others in the series that I've played...
Quote from: guest on 11/19/2017, 02:58 AMDownsizing control schemes of 6 button fighters is pretty lacking.
If you do it wrong... But if you do it right, as mentioned above, it can work, and the GBA version of Street Fighter II DID work! Will I pick it over the SNES version? I'll pick it over The New Challengers, but not over Hyper Fighting, but I can't take the SNES on-the-go now can I? (No, the Supaboy is too big and bulky and you look like an idiot carrying it around)
Thankfully I can play the PCE version with 6 buttons on my 3DS, even if the sound is crippled by a bad emulator, so there's still a reason for me to play SF2 Turbo Revival...
Yeah, with less buttons it's not gonna be the same, but it doesn't have to be the same, it just has to be good, and to me, not only are the GBA (and Wonderswan) fighters good, they're better than the NGPC ones...
Quote from: guest on 11/19/2017, 02:58 AMAlso, those 1 button fighters are dogshit. That stuff is for potatoes. Most experiences on the Amiga are basically dogshit compared to anything else at the time. Generally, the people who talk about how great that stuff is are actually just talking about how the visuals and sounds were, because the games themselves play pretty piss-poor almost always.
http://youtu.be/Wb6VvtAcmb8
http://youtu.be/KMNTcG4OvqE
lol.
Yeah sure, throw in the bad ports of SF2, but omit the GOOD fighters that were
designed for 1 button...Again, see Shadow Fighter:
http://youtu.be/taCR8R4_7Po?t=1m27s
Honestly, with this whole argument you guys just sound like: "REEEEE! You've not played the systems the same way I did, so you're playing it wrong!"
And THAT is what I call a "slightly f***ed outlook"
Neither do you know how I played it, nor is it important, what's important is that I've played the games, and I have something to say about them, nothing more, nothing less... I can accept that you don't agree with what I'm saying, and I respect your opinion on whatever the subject matter is, but what I CANNOT accept is you telling me that I'm having a "less valid" experience just because it's not the same one that you had...
Also: "REEEE! You're not a real Fighting Game Fan because you like playing with less buttons!"
You can't judge fandom like that... First of all, I don't dislike the NGPC fighters, I just think the WS and GBA ones are better...
I could care less about how many buttons a game has, what I care more about is whether or not the game is fun to play, and I think Fighting Games are a LOT of fun to play, regardless of how many buttons they have! And yeah, they put Street Fighter II and Alpha III on the GBA, and they were still good! They were still fun to play! I'm less fond of Alpha III because the PSP has a much better version, so I mostly stick to SFII and KoF EX2 on the GBA...
Quote from: DragonmasterDan on 11/19/2017, 09:52 AMSome years ago, using only a meager crappy cell phone I made a video comparing the three Wonderswan models after having just obtained a SwanCrystal at the time.
Here is the result.
http://youtu.be/h78NITFZJmU
Wow... The difference between the Swan Crystal and the Swan Colour is stunning!
It really is. The only downside is that they only offered terrible case colors after so many cool ones for the earlier systems.
Quote from: Michirin9801 on 11/19/2017, 02:32 PMNo, it's NOT less valid, it's different, but I've played the games, therefore I can have an opinion about them.
But...you've not played the machines they're for, so no, your opinion and experience of those machines is in fact invalid.
There's shades of gray to this when home machines and computers are concerned. However, when you get into handheld territory, there's a whole dynamic you have completely missed.
I am fairly certain your opinions on these games would change if you were playing them on the actual handhelds. The way they were designed and intended to be played.
It's a much different experience than playing like MSX or PC98 or X68000 in an emulator on a PC. It's barely any different than using a real one in those cases, and is sometimes preferable so you can avoid configuration issues, dead floppies that you find out about halfway through a game when it won't load a goddamn town anymore, strange cable requirements, or finding out that 3 or 4 keys on your keyboard suddenly aren't working.
lol, or like DOS games in DOSBox. It's good at accept that you're lucky you aren't dicking off with memory configurations and can just basically mount/go. Lots of us had to play a separate game called "getting the fucking game to launch properly" before we could even *play* the game. Sometimes, after we beat that game, the sequel, called "Son of a bitch now the music works but the sound effects dont" came out immediately, and had to be completed too.
Nobody is going to wish that shit on anyone.
handhelds though? You're missing out not playing them on the actual devices. I honestly feel bad for people who missed the 90s handheld gaming era.
You can go play these: http://pica-pic.com/
but, it's never going to be like having a real one in all of it's retarded glory.
QuoteI don't have to "need" to play a handheld version of a console or arcade game to be interested in it and enjoy playing it, and if the game is good, but trapped on a handheld that has an unlit screen, a crappy speaker and wonky buttons, you ARE breathing new life into it by emulating it, because you can then better appreciate the game for what it is! It served its purpose on being a handheld version of a "better" game back then, but if it's still good, there's still reason to play it!
You can't better appreciate any of it because you literally have no idea what these handhelds were actually like. You're just throwing specs out there and comparing/complaining about them, completely out of context.
It's obvious you're not interested in the handheld machine itself. You're interested in another batch of games, tech specs, and chiptunes to compare to the SNES, lol.
If you were interested in the handhelds themselves, you wouldn't be trying this hard to justify yourself, and you'd have picked up a Wonderswan or NGPC by now.
None of these handhelds are actually bad. They were all fucking awesome. They just had their goofy nuances to them that came with the territory.
Plus, that blue camo NGPC was rad as fuck.
I'm legit debating buying a fucking NGPC again after this stupid discussion, lol. I almost picked up a Wonderswan again in Japan back in April and stopped myself. "No dummy. You don't need that. Stop." was all I could tell myself as I bought a bunch of 30 year old magazines instead like an asshole.
QuoteAlso, this notion completely undermines the system exclusives, here's an example, Guilty Gear Petit 2 is an original Wonderswan Colour game, and it's already become my favourite in the series thus far! Granted I've only played 5 other games in the series, most of them on handhelds, so I could still maybe find another game in the series that I like even better whenever I get around to playing more, but right now, I like that game better than the others in the series that I've played...
*eye roll*. So it's your favorite watered down Guilty Gear game because you've admittedly basically only played handheld ones. Dang. You got me.
Some of the exclusives for handhelds are neat, but I can't quite think of any exclusive that you are truly missing out on if you don't play it outside of the novelty of them. Maybe Buffer's Evolution? It isn't that great.
The exception to this is probably Pokemon, as it's not a watered down version of something else, and has always been a handheld/on the go game, even today.
Undermining system exclusives is OK sometimes. See: the cdi, lol.
You're undermining the actual hardware by not even using it or playing it, or experiencing what it actually is.
Quote(No, the Supaboy is too big and bulky and you look like an idiot carrying it around)
Funfact: No you don't.
And you missed the point of the Supaboy comment.
At the time, we were walking around sometimes with various attachments, lights, and doodads to play portable games. The Supaboy would've been awesome. The Sega Nomad was awesome. You didn't look like an idiot unless you had that full mess of a gameboy setup with all the clicked-on horseshit.
Have you not been to a game convention, or interacted with any other gamers in person? People love the Supaboy, and the ability to jam a super gameboy in it and go "Fuck yeah". It's pretty magical.
QuoteThankfully I can play the PCE version with 6 buttons on my 3DS, even if the sound is crippled by a bad emulator, so there's still a reason for me to play SF2 Turbo Revival...
If you're emulating, why even play the PCE one? You could play better versions of SF2 at that point. Why even debate the Supaboy thing if you're carrying around a fucking 3DS with emulators.
You make no sense sometimes.
QuoteYeah, with less buttons it's not gonna be the same, but it doesn't have to be the same, it just has to be good, and to me, not only are the GBA (and Wonderswan) fighters good, they're better than the NGPC ones...
Again, playing out of context and ignoring that the NGPC had a better control stick, likely playing on a handheld emulator where backlighting and such makes the GBA's visuals look way better.
and still making me wonder why you don't just play a better version instead. lol
QuoteYeah sure, throw in the bad ports of SF2, but omit the GOOD fighters that were designed for 1 button...
Again, see Shadow Fighter:
http://youtu.be/taCR8R4_7Po?t=1m27s
I'm not omitting good fighters. There aren't any really.
I acknowledged Shadow Fighter by responding to the comment. I just decided to throw in more garbage games.
Shadow Fighter on the Amiga sucked. It sucked then, and it sucks now. I grew up with an Amiga. I also grew up laughing at all the piss-poor attempts at fighting games on that thing. Body Blows was dumb.
Rise of the Robots was hilariously shitty. It was all pretty bad unless you ONLY compare it to the other shit on the Amiga. Shadow Fighter looked cool, kind of.
Are we doing something where we only compare it to other shitty 1 button games, so we don't compare it to actually good games? If we're doing that, yeah I guess it's OK, but that's like saying it's the best STD because it clears up the fastest. It's still an STD and you don't want it.
At least you're probably playing it with a controller that isn't a piece of shit Tac-3 or something. There's that.
Arguing that Shadow Fighter is good is bordering on implying that fighting street isn't actually bad, it just has a dumbassed control scheme that doesn't work great, and annoys people, but as far as "games with dumbassed control schemes go, its GRRRREAAAT!"
Fuckin Tony the Tiger over here.
QuoteHonestly, with this whole argument you guys just sound like: "REEEEE! You've not played the systems the same way I did, so you're playing it wrong!"
Well, you aren't actually playing them, so yes, you are playing them wrong... lol. I don't get why this is such a controversial concept.
QuoteAnd THAT is what I call a "slightly FUCKED FUCKED FUCKED ITS NOT HARD TO SWEAR STOP CENSORING STUFF WE'RE NOT 5 outlook"
The only thing fucked is trying to say emulated handheld experiences are the same as playing the real handhelds. It's not. Just accept it and move on. Stop being upset about it like it's going to change it.
QuoteNeither do you know how I played it, nor is it important, what's important is that I've played the games, and I have something to say about them, nothing more, nothing less... I can accept that you don't agree with what I'm saying, and I respect your opinion on whatever the subject matter is,
You've played the games. That's fine. You've not played the hardware in any correct capacity, so saying anything about them is doofy. Am I wrong? Have you spent a good amount of time with a Wonderswan or NGPC handheld? I think you are emulating either on PC or a 3DS. It's not the same. It's cool because it's freebs and lets you play stuff, but it's not the same.
Quotebut what I CANNOT accept is you telling me that I'm having a "less valid" experience just because it's not the same one that you had...
You are having a less valid experience with the NGPC and Wonderswan. You even said yourself it was unauthentic. You agree with me while also trying to disagree with me.
We all had the actual experience. You are gorging yourself on emulation and trying to downplay the difference, expecting your frequent opinion-dropping to compensate for this detail. No amount of that is going to replace what you missed.
You know what will? Sitting and playing the real ones. Get one. They have flash cartridges AFAIK, and I believe Everdrives are coming. That would kickass.
QuoteAlso: "REEEE! You're not a real Fighting Game Fan because you like playing with less buttons!"
You can't judge fandom like that... First of all, I don't dislike the NGPC fighters, I just think the WS and GBA ones are better...
I could care less about how many buttons a game has, what I care more about is whether or not the game is fun to play, and I think Fighting Games are a LOT of fun to play, regardless of how many buttons they have! And yeah, they put Street Fighter II and Alpha III on the GBA, and they were still good! They were still fun to play! I'm less fond of Alpha III because the PSP has a much better version, so I mostly stick to SFII and KoF EX2 on the GBA...
I said you're not a HARDCORE fighting game fan. Try f*u*c*k*i*n*g reading before you do your "reeeeeehururuuuuu don't invalidate me #triggered SJW I can do stuff too" bullshit.
You demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding of fighting game intricacies if you don't care about buttons, and only want it to be A LOT OF FUN TO PLAY.
I figure you only play them buy yourself and have not actually delved that far into the fighting game rabbit hole, outside of playing a bunch of them, and comparing/contrasting them.
I'm not even that hardcore of a fighting game fan anymore. I hate competitive environments, and the way things carry on in those circles.
However, I am fully aware of various details / intricacies of fighting games that you COMPLETELY miss if you only play against AI. It's like playing a different game completely when you're playing these things in that elevated scene.
like, watch people toss in Street Fighter Alpha 2 to kill some time. They'll have fun. It'll be cool. They like fighting games.
Now watch two people with autism rainman fighting game stuff play SFAlpha 2 after they pull out their bigdick joysticks, put on gloves with special fingertips, powder everything so no sweat is involved, get out protractors to make sure all the angles are correct with their seating/hand placement, and you'll see what I mean.
It's enthusiasm vs. "holy shit you really like fighting games".
Enthusiasts can go "oh this is OK. The controls are all stupid now but it's OK I guess. I'm having fun."
Hand a hardcore fighting game wacko a crapped up fighter on a handheld, and you're going to see it getting punted into a trashcan.
Your "good enough", is a more seasoned persons "Fuck this shit", and I am not sure you understand this. You're comparing fighters in their "i had fun with it" capacity, basically ignoring all of the intricate details.
Which is shocking, honestly, given how much you start rambling about fuckin sound chip/sprite/color/electron stuff when talking about games.
Quote from: guest on 11/19/2017, 07:30 PMYou are having a less valid experience with the NGPC and Wonderswan. You even said yourself it was unauthentic. You agree with me while also trying to disagree with me.
What I agree with is that I've had a
different experience than you, as in not having played the real physical thing, what I disagree is that it was less valid, it was not, and there is
NOTHING you can say that will change that...
But you know what? I
WOULD pick those systems up if I could! You think I don't want to play the actual systems? Here's the thing though, do you have any idea how much animators, let alone beginner/young animators who are still really low in the ranks get paid?
Answer: It's not even enough to pay for my college! Let alone importing a handheld from Japan and a flash cart, the only disposable income I have is what little I make through Bandcamp...
Until I can buy a Wonderswan or an NGPC, I'll simply keep on emulating them, because the games are fun, and I like them, but as I've said before, I liked the Wonderswan games better...
Quote from: guest on 11/19/2017, 07:30 PMYou can't better appreciate any of it because you literally have no idea what these handhelds were actually like. You're just throwing specs out there and comparing/complaining about them, completely out of context.
It's obvious you're not interested in the handheld machine itself. You're interested in another batch of games, tech specs, and chiptunes to compare to the SNES, lol.
I was comparing the specs of the NGPC to the GBC in order to justify why I think NGPC games generally don't look any better than GBC games, and besides, I like talking about specs, and you can't tell me how much I can or cannot appreciate something, or how interested in it I am, because you can't see inside of my mind, and by trying to do that you make an arse of yourself...
Quote from: guest on 11/19/2017, 07:30 PM*eye roll*. So it's your favorite watered down Guilty Gear game because you've admittedly basically only played handheld ones. Dang. You got me.
I said
most of them were handheld titles, but I've also played the first game on PlayStation, and I even said in a previous post that I would pick Petit 2 over the original on PS1...
Quote from: guest on 11/19/2017, 07:30 PMIf you're emulating, why even play the PCE one? You could play better versions of SF2 at that point. Why even debate the Supaboy thing if you're carrying around a fucking 3DS with emulators.
Because the DS can't emulate anything more powerful than the PCE...
In that comment I was talking about being able to play Street Fighter II on-the-go, and my 3DS isn't hacked yet so I can only emulate whatever I can put on my DS flash cart, and the PCE is about as high as it goes... So it's either the PCE one or the GBA one, and you know, "better" is subjective, Hyper Fighting on the SNES is my go-to version even if Ultra SF2 HD edition or whatever else is available...
Quote from: guest on 11/19/2017, 07:30 PMAgain, playing out of context and ignoring that the NGPC had a better control stick, likely playing on a handheld emulator where backlighting and such makes the GBA's visuals look way better.
and still making me wonder why you don't just play a better version instead. lol
And what I just said about "better being subjective" applies to this, as it does to basically everything...
You may think the NGPC has a better control stick, that's fine, I'll see about it whenever I get the chance to play one, but as I've said before, I've been using D-pads my entire life, and I always like them better than arcade sticks, so I'm not very confident about a thumb-sized arcade stick winning me over...
Quote from: guest on 11/19/2017, 07:30 PMWell, you aren't actually playing them, so yes, you are playing them wrong... lol. I don't get why this is such a controversial concept.
[...]
The only thing fucked is trying to say emulated handheld experiences are the same as playing the real handhelds. It's not. Just accept it and move on. Stop being upset about it like it's going to change it.
Yes, I AM playing the games! I'm not playing on the same machine that you did, but these are still the same games, and I didn't even try to say that it's the same thing, I said time and time again that I know it's different, but once again, just because it's a different experience, doesn't mean it's less valid, nor does it mean it's wrong!
Quote from: guest on 11/19/2017, 07:30 PMI said you're not a HARDCORE fighting game fan. Try f*u*c*k*i*n*g reading before you do your "reeeeeehururuuuuu don't invalidate me #triggered SJW I can do stuff too" bullshit.
You demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding of fighting game intricacies if you don't care about buttons, and only want it to be A LOT OF FUN TO PLAY.
I figure you only play them buy yourself and have not actually delved that far into the fighting game rabbit hole, outside of playing a bunch of them, and comparing/contrasting them.
I'm not even that hardcore of a fighting game fan anymore. I hate competitive environments, and the way things carry on in those circles.
However, I am fully aware of various details / intricacies of fighting games that you COMPLETELY miss if you only play against AI. It's like playing a different game completely when you're playing these things in that elevated scene.
like, watch people toss in Street Fighter Alpha 2 to kill some time. They'll have fun. It'll be cool. They like fighting games.
Now watch two people with autism rainman fighting game stuff play SFAlpha 2 after they pull out their bigdick joysticks, put on gloves with special fingertips, powder everything so no sweat is involved, get out protractors to make sure all the angles are correct with their seating/hand placement, and you'll see what I mean.
It's enthusiasm vs. "holy shit you really like fighting games".
Enthusiasts can go "oh this is OK. The controls are all stupid now but it's OK I guess. I'm having fun."
Hand a hardcore fighting game wacko a crapped up fighter on a handheld, and you're going to see it getting punted into a trashcan.
Your "good enough", is a more seasoned persons "Fuck this shit", and I am not sure you understand this. You're comparing fighters in their "i had fun with it" capacity, basically ignoring all of the intricate details.
Which is shocking, honestly, given how much you start rambling about fuckin sound chip/sprite/color/electron stuff when talking about games.
Neither you nor Zeta brought up "Being competitive at fighting games" as a factor until now, but if you're gonna do that, then no, I'm not competitive, but to me this is less of a question about "competitive intricacies" and more of a "game design" one, and if you're a game designer, and you can't make your fighting game work within 2 or 4 buttons, then I question how good of a designer you actually are... Not saying that I can design a fighting game, I haven't put in the time to do that yet, but I have played plenty of good (and deep) fighters that don't need 6 buttons, including within the Street Fighter series, and as far as I'm concerned, the intricacies don't come from how many buttons your game has, but from the game's design, as I've seen in videos about competitive fighting, a pro fighting game player is still gonna beat your arse even if the game only has a Jump button and a Dropkick button...
Put it short, how many buttons you have isn't important, Game Design is important!
In fact, if the game is good enough, competitive players will find their own intricacies even if they were not intended by the devs, just look at Super Smash Bros. Melee and what its competitive players do...
Also, I couldn't be competitive even if I wanted, the very rare opportunities that I get to play with someone else, it's always either with people I know, who can't beat me because they don't play as much as I do, or with strangers who I can't beat because they're actually competitive at it so I don't stand a chance, and who said they're gonna coach me or anything?
I guess you could simply call me a "fighting game enthusiast" that label fits me well enough...
Michirin if you've ever used a neo geo CD controller, the "microswitch" stick on the pocket is similar except smaller. It's really comfy!
Quote from: guest on 11/19/2017, 10:50 PMMichirin if you've ever used a neo geo CD controller, the "microswitch" stick on the pocket is similar except smaller. It's really comfy!
You mean that controller that looks more like a proper Gamepad rather than an Arcade stick? I've used it once a little bit... I don't remember it being very good though, but I'm under the impression that the particular controller I used wasn't in its top shape...
Quote from: Michirin9801 on 11/19/2017, 10:38 PMWhat I agree with is that I've had a different experience than you, as in not having played the real physical thing, what I disagree is that it was less valid, it was not, and there is NOTHING you can say that will change that...
If you think playing a handheld without ever holding said handheld in your hand isn't a less valid experience, you're kind of a dipshit. Plain and simple.
It's great how you forego common sense to staunchly defend your basically nonsense stance on validity while still admitting its "unauthentic", lol.
I guess on the brightside, you can save tons of money on amusement parks by going and riding those virtual rollercoasters instead.
QuoteAnswer: It's not even enough to pay for my college! Let alone importing a handheld from Japan and a flash cart, the only disposable income I have is what little I make through Bandcamp...
Until I can buy a Wonderswan or an NGPC, I'll simply keep on emulating them, because the games are fun, and I like them, but as I've said before, I liked the Wonderswan games better...
Are you in USA, or Europe? If you live in USA, and are as hardup poor as you claim all the time, you should be able to have financial aid out the ass that basically pays for your school FOR you, coupled with a part time job that gets money going.
I can't quite sympathize with you if the above is the case. I was buying stuff as a kid and through college. It's not like this stuff is that expensive. A fucking paper route covered buying a brand new gamecube and working like 12 hours a week at a local library covered stuff like PS2 games and a PS3. I don't think NGPC or Wonderswan markets have gone fully price-fucked. like 2 or 3 days of minimum wage work could get you one and a game or two...
If you're in Europe, I don't know how their setup is, so no idea there. Good luck.
As I said anyways, emulating isn't that big of a deal for the game aspect, but you completely misunderstand the handheld and it's experience without having touched the real ones. You're playing a bunch of well-back-lit-crap on nice screens, with a controller you can choose yourself (or already like, on the DS).
another good way to illustrate this is when people think emulating arcade games gives the same experience as being in an arcade.
There's an atmospheric effect that you're completely missing. Sure, you're playing the game, but there's something missing. You just don't realize it yet.
I'd laugh really hard if you get NGPC and Wonderswans and flip which you like more. What sucks though, is having done these via emulation, you're going into the handheld experience with a bias view point. Kind of a bummer.
QuoteI was comparing the specs of the NGPC to the GBC in order to justify why I think NGPC games generally don't look any better than GBC games, and besides, I like talking about specs, and you can't tell me how much I can or cannot appreciate something, or how interested in it I am, because you can't see inside of my mind, and by trying to do that you make an arse of yourself...
I'm not trying to see inside your mind. You're talking about appreciation with regards to things on things you haven't physically touched. It's so backwards. Do we need to start a GoFund me to get you a NGPC and Wonderswan so you can hold them and pet them, and see how they are? lol
Like no joke if I see one in my area cheap enough I will 100% buy the thing and mail you it. I'd mail you mine if I hadn't sold it. I kind of regret it sometimes.
QuoteI said most of them were handheld titles, but I've also played the first game on PlayStation, and I even said in a previous post that I would pick Petit 2 over the original on PS1...
Yes, and I said BASICALLY. ayyyy
QuoteBecause the DS can't emulate anything more powerful than the PCE...
In that comment I was talking about being able to play Street Fighter II on-the-go, and my 3DS isn't hacked yet so I can only emulate whatever I can put on my DS flash cart, and the PCE is about as high as it goes... So it's either the PCE one or the GBA one, and you know, "better" is subjective, Hyper Fighting on the SNES is my go-to version even if Ultra SF2 HD edition or whatever else is available...
I'd play the SNES Street Fighters over the PCE one. The PCE one isn't anything spectacular, lol.
I thought 3DS could do PS1 now.
QuoteAnd what I just said about "better being subjective" applies to this, as it does to basically everything...
You may think the NGPC has a better control stick, that's fine, I'll see about it whenever I get the chance to play one, but as I've said before, I've been using D-pads my entire life, and I always like them better than arcade sticks, so I'm not very confident about a thumb-sized arcade stick winning me over...
I've been using d-pads longer than you've been alive. That doesn't mean I don't recognize the importance of a competent control stick. The GBA's dpad sucks. SPs was OK, but, really, for the motions of a fighting game, dpads have always sucked. You and I can do it just fine because we've been at it forever, but it's far from optimal. You'd be surprised how much more fluid a fighting game feels once you get used to the sticks. I had to forcibly work at it and break d-pad intuition. It was kinda worth it.
You just need to not use a garbage stick. Most people say they hate using joysticks. What they mean is, they hate using poverty garbage joysticks, and have never used a sweet one. One day you're going to touch a sweet control stick and go "goddamn, this is sweet".
Even arcade sticks themselves suck when you're playing a gunked up one that isn't properly maintained.
QuoteYes, I AM playing the games! I'm not playing on the same machine that you did, but these are still the same games, and I didn't even try to say that it's the same thing, I said time and time again that I know it's different, but once again, just because it's a different experience, doesn't mean it's less valid, nor does it mean it's wrong!
It's less valid. It just is. I'm not picking on you. even myself playing them with emulators is less valid. The difference being, I can at least appreciate being able to see shit and not having to fight with lighting.
You know what though? It generally feels wrong. Sometimes jarring even, to play handheld games not-on-a-handheld. even super gameboy as a kid was weird sometimes. You get this highcolor border surrounding a 4 color game. It was kind of cool, but also kinda like "well is this really that much better?"
QuoteNeither you nor Zeta brought up "Being competitive at fighting games" as a factor until now, but if you're gonna do that, then no, I'm not competitive, but to me this is less of a question about "competitive intricacies" and more of a "game design" one, and if you're a game designer, and you can't make your fighting game work within 2 or 4 buttons, then I question how good of a designer you actually are... Not saying that I can design a fighting game, I haven't put in the time to do that yet, but I have played plenty of good (and deep) fighters that don't need 6 buttons, including within the Street Fighter series, and as far as I'm concerned, the intricacies don't come from how many buttons your game has, but from the game's design, as I've seen in videos about competitive fighting, a pro fighting game player is still gonna beat your arse even if the game only has a Jump button and a Dropkick button...
We shouldn't have to bringup/point out the "competitive fighting game" part. It's implied. You needing it spelled out shows that you aren't a hardcore fighting game person. It's not like it's a bad thing.
Competitive fighting game scenes are some of the finnickiest fucktards in gaming.
The point isn't designing a game with 2/4/6/whatever buttons. The point is that when games go from 6 to 2 or whatever, you've now changed the entire dynamic of a game. People's expectations of a Street Fighter aren't met when the buttons and gameplay isn't consistent. That's why handheld fighters sometimes suck/piss people off.
and at the time, the NGPC having a nice stick was an actually-important-thing. This was back in the time when you could still walk into this thing called an arcade, put money in a machine, and play a fighting game (with joysticks as they were intended) with other people.
Rolling into Aladdin's Castle to play Marvel vs. Capcom on an actual machine was a great time. The Dreamcast version is fucking great, but yknow what? The Dreamcast controller's D-Pad fucking sucks a huge penis when you try to play it on there.
The joystick matters.
QuotePut it short, how many buttons you have isn't important, Game Design is important!
Kind of. 1 button joystick setups suck and hamper game design. Saying "game design is important!" is such a copout with regards to shit control schemes. Sometimes, controllers just suck. See: Intellivision. No amount of game design saves you from having to put up with that stupid shit.
Creative liberties have to be taken since you don't have the buttons to do what you want, or they are laid out like a shit telephone.
Imagine how much more fun Turrican would've been if you could AIM YOUR GUN. Like Contra. If only they had that jump button to free up using up to jump.. lol
QuoteAlso, I couldn't be competitive even if I wanted, the very rare opportunities that I get to play with someone else, it's always either with people I know, who can't beat me because they don't play as much as I do, or with strangers who I can't beat because they're actually competitive at it so I don't stand a chance, and who said they're gonna coach me or anything?
I guess you could simply call me a "fighting game enthusiast" that label fits me well enough...
Don't you have like a PS3 or something? You can play online. I can't promise that it will be fun, though. It's a completely different game when you're playing with someone else.
Whoa hold up. The intellivision had an amazing controller. Once you lost those inserts you had a bunch of buttons to choose from plus that sweet "d-pad". Using the controller was practically a game itself.
Emulating handhelds is a goofy experience. If you aren't playing on the original console it's a totally different experience. You have to take into consideration that games were designed to work with the control setup for the handheld.
You have a 3ds, try playing a GBA game or even a nes game on it. It's goofy. It doesn't feel right because the controls are off. The NES d-pad and the 3ds d-pad are way different, plus the placement is wrong. Then you have those 4 buttons which are not laid out for playing older games not designed for them.
The biggest beef I have with emulation is that the control schemes are never right. You genuinely miss out on the experience and in some cases the games are practically unplayable.
You probably hate the n64 because it doesn't sound SNES enough but imagine trying to play a N64 game with a keyboard instead of the stupid trident controller. You can hate the trident all day but the games are designed around the quirks.
Which brings it all back to Wonderswan and the optional Wondercoin.
http://youtu.be/gtDsOoQM-y0
lol.
funfact: I would drop what I was doing to watch that girl go I GOT LION KING
and then I'd be like huuuuuuuu because the commercial was over and I never saw her again
OH also, holding an actual wonderswan is retarded.
Just throwing that out there. I never liked hold those. I dropped mine alot.
I think I want to go play Mortal Kombat on the original gameboy just so I can have the same experience as playing it on a Genesis...
Quote from: MobiusStripTech on 11/20/2017, 12:08 AMYou probably hate the n64 because it doesn't sound SNES enough but imagine trying to play a N64 game with a keyboard instead of the stupid trident controller. You can hate the trident all day but the games are designed around the quirks.
We at pcefx endorse the Nintendo 64. Gotta love dat sexy Ram expansion slot. 😩👌💦
Nothing better than some banjo kazooie, sin and punishment and wave race on a crisp winter night. Hell even mortal kombat 4 and conker are fun multiplayer games with my brother.
Get N or get the fuck out 👋
Quote from: guest on 11/20/2017, 12:13 AMWhat you need to do is emulate a NGPC on a tiny LCD screen with the brightness set to 5%, smash one of your speakers with a hammer, and sit in direct sunlight.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I have to agree with the others that emulating these on a PC is about as unauthentic as you can get.
When the FACT that PC emulation lacks the variables of real world system use Ark and others have listed definitely does not give an accurate benchmark (much less the weird obsession with the tech side that you are not even close to experiencing not playing on a system).
Having owned both they were damn fine systems for what they intended to do. Enjoyable in spurts, some fun games and a lot of crap (though arguably a better ratio than the GB/GBC in a lot of ways).
Quote from: PukeSter on 11/20/2017, 12:58 AMWe at pcefx endorse the Nintendo 64. Gotta love dat sexy Ram expansion slot. 😩👌💦
Nothing better than some banjo kazooie, sin and punishment and wave race on a crisp winter night. Hell even mortal kombat 4 and conker are fun multiplayer games with my brother.
Get N or get the fuck out 👋
The only thing we endorse about the N64 is laughing at it.
Quote from: guest on 11/19/2017, 11:34 PMIf you think playing a handheld without ever holding said handheld in your hand isn't a less valid experience, you're kind of a dipshit. Plain and simple.
It's great how you forego common sense to staunchly defend your basically nonsense stance on validity while still admitting its "unauthentic", lol.
I guess on the brightside, you can save tons of money on amusement parks by going and riding those virtual rollercoasters instead.
As I said again and again, and will say as many times as I have to, what matters is the games, my experience was different, but it's still valid, because I've played the games and have something to say about them, and so I will!
Quote from: guest on 11/19/2017, 11:34 PMAs I said anyways, emulating isn't that big of a deal for the game aspect, but you completely misunderstand the handheld and it's experience without having touched the real ones. You're playing a bunch of well-back-lit-crap on nice screens, with a controller you can choose yourself (or already like, on the DS).
another good way to illustrate this is when people think emulating arcade games gives the same experience as being in an arcade.
There's an atmospheric effect that you're completely missing. Sure, you're playing the game, but there's something missing. You just don't realize it yet.
I'd laugh really hard if you get NGPC and Wonderswans and flip which you like more. What sucks though, is having done these via emulation, you're going into the handheld experience with a bias view point. Kind of a bummer.
I'm not playing these games to try and replicate a very specific experience, I'm playing them because I want to expand my horizons and play things that I hadn't before! This
is a valid experience to be had, even if it's different from "what was intended" or "what you had"
Quote from: guest on 11/19/2017, 11:34 PMI'm not trying to see inside your mind. You're talking about appreciation with regards to things on things you haven't physically touched. It's so backwards. Do we need to start a GoFund me to get you a NGPC and Wonderswan so you can hold them and pet them, and see how they are? lol
Like no joke if I see one in my area cheap enough I will 100% buy the thing and mail you it. I'd mail you mine if I hadn't sold it. I kind of regret it sometimes.
No need, I'll get it on my own when I can...
Quote from: guest on 11/19/2017, 11:34 PMI'd play the SNES Street Fighters over the PCE one. The PCE one isn't anything spectacular, lol.
I thought 3DS could do PS1 now.
PS1 on the 3DS is too slow to be playable, and my 3DS isn't hacked, I'll hack it whenever Nintendo stops updating the system, I don't wanna risk bricking mine... Hopefully by the time I do it there will be a decent PCE emulator for it, I know there's already a lot of SNES and GBA support, not sure about Genesis but I'm not exactly desperate for it...
I can only emulate what's available for the original DS, and while there are emulators for more advanced stuff than the PCE on it, pretty much none of it is playable from my experience...
Quote from: guest on 11/19/2017, 11:34 PMI've been using d-pads longer than you've been alive. That doesn't mean I don't recognize the importance of a competent control stick. The GBA's dpad sucks. SPs was OK, but, really, for the motions of a fighting game, dpads have always sucked. You and I can do it just fine because we've been at it forever, but it's far from optimal. You'd be surprised how much more fluid a fighting game feels once you get used to the sticks. I had to forcibly work at it and break d-pad intuition. It was kinda worth it.
You just need to not use a garbage stick. Most people say they hate using joysticks. What they mean is, they hate using poverty garbage joysticks, and have never used a sweet one. One day you're going to touch a sweet control stick and go "goddamn, this is sweet".
Even arcade sticks themselves suck when you're playing a gunked up one that isn't properly maintained.
I understand and respect your opinion, but until I get to experience an arcade stick that's "not garbage" enough to convince me that joysticks are better than D-pads, I'll gladly pick a D-pad over an arcade stick...
Quote from: guest on 11/19/2017, 11:34 PMYou know what though? It generally feels wrong. Sometimes jarring even, to play handheld games not-on-a-handheld. even super gameboy as a kid was weird sometimes. You get this highcolor border surrounding a 4 color game. It was kind of cool, but also kinda like "well is this really that much better?"
You're saying that because you're expecting to have this specific experience with handhelds that you're familiar with, but since I'm not expecting that, I don't have the same problem as you...
I can't say whether or not playing these games on emulators is better than the real thing, but I can say that I've played the games, and I've enjoyed what I played... I didn't need my screen to look a certain way or the buttons to feel a certain way to play a good game and have fun, and that's ultimately what I want from video games, to have fun, not to "recreate a very specific experience that someone else is imposing on me"
Quote from: guest on 11/19/2017, 11:34 PMWe shouldn't have to bringup/point out the "competitive fighting game" part. It's implied. You needing it spelled out shows that you aren't a hardcore fighting game person. It's not like it's a bad thing.
Competitive fighting game scenes are some of the finnickiest fucktards in gaming.
The point isn't designing a game with 2/4/6/whatever buttons. The point is that when games go from 6 to 2 or whatever, you've now changed the entire dynamic of a game. People's expectations of a Street Fighter aren't met when the buttons and gameplay isn't consistent. That's why handheld fighters sometimes suck/piss people off.
and at the time, the NGPC having a nice stick was an actually-important-thing. This was back in the time when you could still walk into this thing called an arcade, put money in a machine, and play a fighting game (with joysticks as they were intended) with other people.
Rolling into Aladdin's Castle to play Marvel vs. Capcom on an actual machine was a great time. The Dreamcast version is fucking great, but yknow what? The Dreamcast controller's D-Pad fucking sucks a huge penis when you try to play it on there.
The joystick matters.
If porting a 6 button game to a 4 button or a 2 button doesn't work, that's when you
redesign the game to fit a 4 button or a 2 button control scheme! It
is going to be consistent if the controller motions do what you're expecting them to do, and on the GBA, Wonderswan, and even NGPC, they do!
What I don't understand is this double-standard you have about saying that handheld fighters suck because they have fewer buttons but excusing the NGPC because it had a mini arcade stick on it, even though it still has fewer buttons, even fewer still than the GBA...
Also, """hardcore""" fighting gamers
aren't gonna bother with handheld versions!!These versions aren't for them, they're for people like me, who enjoy playing fighting games and wanna play some while out and about... Arguing that handheld fighters are bad because hardcore fighting gamers don't wanna play them is basically pointless, there's nothing you can tell them to convince them to play anything that isn't gonna be on the next EVO, they're not gonna care...
Handheld fighters should be first and foremost fun to play, no need to pander to the hardcore demographic that isn't gonna bother with them... If these handheld fighters are good games on their own accord, I'm going to play them! Even if there are "better" versions that I could be playing instead...
Also, the controller only matters if you don't like it, if you do like what you're using, and I sure as hell like using the GBA SP for controlling my games, then no, it doesn't matter...
Quote from: guest on 11/19/2017, 11:34 PMQuotePut it short, how many buttons you have isn't important, Game Design is important!
Kind of. 1 button joystick setups suck and hamper game design. Saying "game design is important!" is such a copout with regards to shit control schemes. Sometimes, controllers just suck. See: Intellivision. No amount of game design saves you from having to put up with that stupid shit.
1 button joysticks are definitely a pain to work with and design something around... But if you manage to make something that only uses 1 directional and 1 button, and it feels good and is fun to play, I'll be impressed! Which is why Shadow Fighter impresses me, I'm not gonna say that it's on-par with the other fighters of the time, but I don't think it's bad at all... You don't like it? Sure whatever, but I think it's pretty alright, I've certainly played worse fighters, and those did have more buttons...
Quote from: guest on 11/19/2017, 11:34 PMDon't you have like a PS3 or something? You can play online. I can't promise that it will be fun, though. It's a completely different game when you're playing with someone else.
Nope! Just the 3DS... I can play Super Street Fighter IV online on it though...
I think you can't play online on the Wii anymore, but even if it could, who the hell is playing Tatsunoko vs. Capcom anymore? (I sure as hell wish I was)
(https://chrismcovell.com/images/TGCD-Michael.gif)
Quote from: Michirin9801 on 11/20/2017, 02:41 AMAs I said again and again, and will say as many times as I have to, what matters is the games, my experience was different, but it's still valid, because I've played the games and have something to say about them, and so I will!
Yeah, so remember how I said it's clear you don't care about the machine, and care about the games, and you said:
Quoteand you can't tell me how much I can or cannot appreciate something, or how interested in it I am, because you can't see inside of my mind, and by trying to do that you make an arse of yourself...
lol.
QuoteI'm not playing these games to try and replicate a very specific experience, I'm playing them because I want to expand my horizons and play things that I hadn't before! This is a valid experience to be had, even if it's different from "what was intended" or "what you had"
Your horizons aren't truly expanded until you play these things the right way. It's just a cut/dry fact. No amount of enthusiasm will change this. Right now, you're having a valid invalid experience.
QuoteI can only emulate what's available for the original DS, and while there are emulators for more advanced stuff than the PCE on it, pretty much none of it is playable from my experience...
Don't you own a PSP?
QuoteI understand and respect your opinion, but until I get to experience an arcade stick that's "not garbage" enough to convince me that joysticks are better than D-pads, I'll gladly pick a D-pad over an arcade stick...
Joysticks aren't better than dpads always. Only sometimes. You have to use the right tool for the job.
QuoteYou're saying that because you're expecting to have this specific experience with handhelds that you're familiar with, but since I'm not expecting that, I don't have the same problem as you...
I can't say whether or not playing these games on emulators is better than the real thing, but I can say that I've played the games, and I've enjoyed what I played... I didn't need my screen to look a certain way or the buttons to feel a certain way to play a good game and have fun, and that's ultimately what I want from video games, to have fun, not to "recreate a very specific experience that someone else is imposing on me"
You are missing out. There are atmospheric things about video games that you are completely hosing yourself from experiencing, all because you've convinced yourself all that matters is the games themselves. This is one of those times where having access to everything via emulation is a bad thing.
I can't make you go seek out an arcade experience, or spend some quality time with a now-retarded handheld. But, for someone whos all about broadening horizons, I'd expect that you would want to.
QuoteIf porting a 6 button game to a 4 button or a 2 button doesn't work, that's when you redesign the game to fit a 4 button or a 2 button control scheme! It is going to be consistent if the controller motions do what you're expecting them to do, and on the GBA, Wonderswan, and even NGPC, they do!
Yes, and redesigning the game changes the game from the expected setup, and often sucks. So when you're dealing with a changed game AND a probably shitty dpad, it can suck doubly. Especially in HandheldLand(TM) where you can't change the controller.
QuoteWhat I don't understand is this double-standard you have about saying that handheld fighters suck because they have fewer buttons but excusing the NGPC because it had a mini arcade stick on it, even though it still has fewer buttons, even fewer still than the GBA...
Its not a double standard. You just don't understand.
It gets a pass because at the time, it was fantastic. It was redone properly to give a competent experience as a handheld. The control matters. Comparing the fighters on NGPC and Wonderswan in an emulator is dumb. You like the Wonderswan ones more because they look/sound more like what you want in an emulated environment. This again reiterates the point being made that playing them on the actual handhelds is something you should experience.
You are basically playing all this stuff in an unintended fashion. The only new life you breathe into it as a result, is a biased opinion on how you feel about games and their specs in a way they weren't even planned to be experienced in, lol.
The GBA came after the NGPC was discontinued. The GBA ones are at least sort of OK, but still not that great and arguably less enjoyable because they are trying too hard to be better than a handheld is actually allowing them to be. So you end up with this strange ass hybrid game that looks OK (except it's on a GBA so it's still washed out and you can't see a goddamn thing unless you're on an SP, or a Cube player).
The correct comparison would be to use Gameboy/GB Color games, and those Street Fighter/MKs/etc. games are all complete horseshit. The only reason you played those ever is because you didn't buy a NGPC, and didn't want to be seen with a fuckin Tiger handheld in public.
In the case of the NGPC and Wonderswan fighters, they were both dialed down to handheld land fine. Where Wonderswan falls apart though, is it's controls suck by comparison to it's direct competition.
Again, this is why the NGPC was awesome. The best handheld fighting you're going to get is the NGPC/Wonderswan stuff. The best handheld experience you're actually going to get, is the NGPC one.
(Note: I say this WRT to fighting games. Outside of fighting games, neither machine is better than the other except for at the time, you had to import a Wonderswan, so you weren't playing that shit probably)
The best emulated/not intended experience is going to be whichever one has characteristics you like.
QuoteAlso, """hardcore""" fighting gamers aren't gonna bother with handheld versions!!
lol, you say this with idiotic confidence, considering you just had to have the whole "hardcore fighting game" thing explained to you like 45 seconds ago.
Back in the day, hardcore fighting gamers were indeed playing NGPCs. Between rounds at the arcade/waiting for their turns, people were playing. At school, playing. Road trips, playing. When you want to keep playing fighting games but you're not at an arcade, or not around your home version.. you were playing these.
QuoteThese versions aren't for them, they're for people like me, who enjoy playing fighting games and wanna play some while out and about... Arguing that handheld fighters are bad because hardcore fighting gamers don't wanna play them is basically pointless, there's nothing you can tell them to convince them to play anything that isn't gonna be on the next EVO, they're not gonna care...
Handheld fighters should be first and foremost fun to play, no need to pander to the hardcore demographic that isn't gonna bother with them... If these handheld fighters are good games on their own accord, I'm going to play them! Even if there are "better" versions that I could be playing instead...
Actually, ...they were for them. They were for everyone. You're now acting like they made these handheld versions specifically for people who want to play watered down shit. They also didn't make them for people like you, because people like you mostly just emulate handhelds and aren't even playing them as intended... ;)
Nobody is saying fighting games on handhelds are bad because hardcore people don't want to play them. They're bad because they're often bad for various control reasons that you have the fortunate privilege of never having to actually deal with.
The GBA is sort of excused with it's MK / SF ports. The Gameboy/GBC is not. That stuff sucked. Killer Instinct on Gameboy is a great way to regret buying something.
QuoteAlso, the controller only matters if you don't like it, if you do like what you're using, and I sure as hell like using the GBA SP for controlling my games, then no, it doesn't matter...
You don't know what you're missing.
Quote1 button joysticks are definitely a pain to work with and design something around... But if you manage to make something that only uses 1 directional and 1 button, and it feels good and is fun to play, I'll be impressed! Which is why Shadow Fighter impresses me, I'm not gonna say that it's on-par with the other fighters of the time, but I don't think it's bad at all... You don't like it? Sure whatever, but I think it's pretty alright, I've certainly played worse fighters, and those did have more buttons...
So, Shadow Fighter won the special olympics. Cool. it's still retarded.
Quote from: MobiusStripTech on 11/20/2017, 12:08 AMEmulating handhelds is a goofy experience. If you aren't playing on the original console it's a totally different experience. You have to take into consideration that games were designed to work with the control setup for the handheld.
You have a 3ds, try playing a GBA game or even a nes game on it. It's goofy. It doesn't feel right because the controls are off. The NES d-pad and the 3ds d-pad are way different, plus the placement is wrong. Then you have those 4 buttons which are not laid out for playing older games not designed for them.
The biggest beef I have with emulation is that the control schemes are never right. You genuinely miss out on the experience and in some cases the games are practically unplayable.
You probably hate the n64 because it doesn't sound SNES enough but imagine trying to play a N64 game with a keyboard instead of the stupid trident controller. You can hate the trident all day but the games are designed around the quirks.
N64 games play better with alternate controllers. So many N64 games were also designed for PC or other consoles and N64 versions simply have a set of commands mapoed to the number of buttons.
N64 games play best when you don't play them at all.
Quote from: guest on 11/20/2017, 09:57 AMQuote from: MobiusStripTech on 11/20/2017, 12:08 AMEmulating handhelds is a goofy experience. If you aren't playing on the original console it's a totally different experience. You have to take into consideration that games were designed to work with the control setup for the handheld.
You have a 3ds, try playing a GBA game or even a nes game on it. It's goofy. It doesn't feel right because the controls are off. The NES d-pad and the 3ds d-pad are way different, plus the placement is wrong. Then you have those 4 buttons which are not laid out for playing older games not designed for them.
The biggest beef I have with emulation is that the control schemes are never right. You genuinely miss out on the experience and in some cases the games are practically unplayable.
You probably hate the n64 because it doesn't sound SNES enough but imagine trying to play a N64 game with a keyboard instead of the stupid trident controller. You can hate the trident all day but the games are designed around the quirks.
N64 games play better with alternate controllers. So many N64 games were also designed for PC or other consoles and N64 versions simply have a set of commands mapoed to the number of buttons.
I would have to disagree in most cases. As an example, playing Ocarina of Time is goony when you have to use the C buttons and you are trying to do so with a Gamecube C-Stick or the 3DS screen. That's not to say all the alternate pads were bad. The Mako Pad, which was an aftermarket normal shaped N64 controller was vastly superior to the trident.
Tony Hawk 2 on N64 was really great if you played it on Playstation instead. You use the PS controller, and can actually do things.
Quote from: CrackTiger on 11/20/2017, 09:57 AMN64 games play better with alternate controllers. So many N64 games were also designed for PC or other consoles and N64 versions simply have a set of commands mapoed to the number of buttons.
It's a shame a lot of the alternate n64 controllers are nothing special. Even the Hori pad has some issues, because the dpad is in the middle of the controller and the R and Z buttons are the same shape.
A new 3rd party controller has been in the works for a few months, and should be out in December or January. It looks extremely promising, as long as the build quality is solid.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1247448559/next-gen-n64-nintendo-64-controller
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/IHQ663OPF6o/maxresdefault.jpg)
Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 11/20/2017, 11:11 AMN64 games play best when you don't play them at all.
You're missing out Ark! The more you play, the more of that white stick powder you make for the dealers and clubs.
If the n64 didn't have the best 1st/2nd party out of any nintendo console (arguably), I wouldn't play it often. Thankfully a bunch of genre-defining games on the system still hold up today. Probably the only "top tier exclusive" I really don't like is Banjo Tooie. Kind of a mixed bag.
There's some solid 3rd party stuff from Midway, Hudson, Treasure and Konami. Hell, I think even Zeta has a lot of respect for Super Robot Wars 64
I should take a photo of my library sometime. Unfortunately I'm missing games like Conker and Majora, which I had long ago.
My N64 library is Mischief Makers, Jizz Fart Gemini, Castlevania because I'm retarded, and a bunch of 2$ crap
Oh and Zelda.
I haven't touched any of it in years.
The C buttons are garbage.
I backed that retro fighters controller. Just hoping the analog stick isn't complete shit.
I aint backing anything that uses the word retro already incorrectly, for a fuckin n64.
Morons.
Quote from: guest on 11/20/2017, 01:01 PMI aint backing anything that uses the word retro already incorrectly, for a fuckin n64.
Morons.
Just be glad it didn't have some form of Super Smash on there
Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 11/20/2017, 01:01 PMI aint backing anything that uses the word retro already incorrectly, for a fuckin n64.
Morons.
The company name is Retro Fighters and they decorate their online stuff with NES Mega Man sprites altered to look like fighting game characters. I'm guessing that they previously did NES hacks.
The games are more important than the hardware, I admit. However when the games and hardware were designed together to do something no other hardware can, then it becomes impossible to separate the two.
If your girlfriend's vibrator had a Tetris clone built into it (Tetrixxx?) and you dump the ROM into your phone and play it in an emulator do NOT expect your girlfriend to agree that you've had the same experience with Terrixxx. Tetrixxx *requires* the controller.
The same goes for Steel Battalion, DDR, Duck Hunt, and any game originality shackled to a handhad with unique physical properties, such as the Neo Geo Pocket.
I own multiple PCE systems and I've played the games in modern emulators and to be the experience is never the same. It can be very very close though, sometimes better.
I own multiple Neo Geo Pocket and Wonderswan systems and I've played the games in modern emulators and IMO the experience is just nothing even close. With GBA you're pretty much there but not with earlier stuff.
That doesn't make it correct.
NES megaman sprites aren't retro.
They're vintage.
Now MM sprites jacked and remixed? That's as Retro as Retro gets. Deep down and dirty mongrel-ass Retro.
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 11/20/2017, 03:18 PMNow MM sprites jacked and remixed? That's as Retro as Retro gets. Deep down and dirty mongrel-ass Retro.
retro^3
Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 11/20/2017, 03:26 PMQuote from: SignOfZeta on 11/20/2017, 03:18 PMNow MM sprites jacked and remixed? That's as Retro as Retro gets. Deep down and dirty mongrel-ass Retro.
retro^3
retro^64!!!!!
Gotta love how dozens of games had the 64 moniker. Duke Nukem 64, Bomberman 64, Wave Race 64, Mega Man 64, etc...
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/doom/images/b/b7/Doom_64-box-cover.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080510223920)
Doom 64 is such a beast game! Love the survival horror atmosphere they added to it, I almost shit my pants once or twice.
Retro Fighters better have lots of colors available. A yellow controller would be sick
(https://media0dk-a.akamaihd.net/62/59/2eeb40fdaea26f50045fb7abd00974e6.jpg)
I can't express my enthusiasm for the N64 before it was released. I was SO on board for whatever Nintendo had in store for us. Then I sat around waiting 3-6 months for every game while the other systems had more good games see release in a month than the N64 had in a year and...traded it for a Saturn and never ever looked back.
The food was bad, the portions small, the prices high. It sucked. N64.
Quote from: PukeSter on 11/20/2017, 06:52 PMQuote from: Psycho Arkhan on 11/20/2017, 03:26 PMQuote from: SignOfZeta on 11/20/2017, 03:18 PMNow MM sprites jacked and remixed? That's as Retro as Retro gets. Deep down and dirty mongrel-ass Retro.
retro^3
retro^64!!!!!
Gotta love how dozens of games had the 64 moniker. Duke Nukem 64, Bomberman 64, Wave Race 64, Mega Man 64, etc...
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/doom/images/b/b7/Doom_64-box-cover.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080510223920)
Doom 64 is such a beast game! Love the survival horror atmosphere they added to it, I almost shit my pants once or twice.
Retro Fighters better have lots of colors available. A yellow controller would be sick
(https://media0dk-a.akamaihd.net/62/59/2eeb40fdaea26f50045fb7abd00974e6.jpg)
Here's what people voted for:
We wanted to announce the top colors, voted by all of you! Transparent colors seemed to be very popular! Here are the top 5 colors in order:
1. Solid Black 20.26%
2. Transparent Purple 13.55%
3. Transparent Green 8.30%
4. Transparent Blue 8.15%
5. Solid Gold 6.99%
We will do the top 2 colors, but we will also do our best to include the other colors as well. We have mentioned this before, but transparent colors require a whole new mold.
Leave it to Nintendo fans to ask for gold. All I can think of is the rubbed off spots like the silver Gamecube.
Ha, no shit. I've been doing my best to buy Nintendo hardware that wasn't purple or clear purple or gold and it turns out N64 kids love that shit. Yet another side affect of eating breakfast cereal for every meal of every day, which as we know, N64 fans do.
Black Tiger, what a waste! Gold is so tacky compared to regular yellow.
clear blue and green are decent. I think purple is okay but i would never pick it over those colors.
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 11/20/2017, 07:11 PMI can't express my enthusiasm for the N64 before it was released. I was SO on board for whatever Nintendo had in store for us. Then I sat around waiting 3-6 months for every game while the other systems had more good games see release in a month than the N64 had in a year and...traded it for a Saturn and never ever looked back.
The food was bad, the portions small, the prices high. It sucked. N64.
I was so pumped for the N64 as a kid when they started rolling out advertisements.
I was like oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck.
Me and my friends would basically piss ourselves talking about it at the lunch table. "SIXTY FOUR BITS ITS GOING TO LOOK LIKE OUTERSPACE. I HOPE IT DOESN'T BURN OUR HOUSE DOWN. MAYBE WE WILL GET A SUPER METROID 2. HOLYSHIT ZELDA"
We were oblivious to Sony Playstation. I only vaguely knew of Sony as a thing because my Aunt's CD player said Sony on it.
For Xmas the one year I was like YEAH N64. I NEED ME ONE OF THOSE. SONY ? WHATS THAT.
I played Tekken and some other stuff at my aunt's. "This is cool but Nintendo is cooler. The CDs can't be that important otherwise Nintendo would use them too!". ... deep down I knew Sega CD/TGCD stuff was onto something because of like, Lunar 2. Deep down, my child self was kinda worried.
Then I played Star Fox 64 at Sears and was like "... this is ... what this controller why grandma im confused at this thing, its OK I guess." She was kind of sad because I wasn't too enthusiastic about Nintendo. That was like the go-to thing.
and then I saw it.
I saw it.
FF7 was on
Playstation, not on N64.
I'd seen the commercials, but didn't really process that it wasn't on a Nintendo machine. I just assumed it was going to be on a Nintendo machine.
My brain was already trying to reason with itself to explain the gap between FF3 and FF7.
"Oh, Mystic Quest must be 4. Or maybe it's 6, and the game boy games are 4 and 5 but wait there's too many on gameboy. Maybe Adventure doesn't count. Maybe Mystic Quest doesn't. It's OK."
Boy, once I pieced that shit together. That's how I discovered emulators and ROMs. Playing the actual FF2 and FF3 on NES.
Anyway, I saw FF7 on display at Sears. SONY PLAYSTATION all over the place. Cloud standing there looking at me like a prettyboy piece of shit.
Quote from: Cloud StrifeYeah kid. You want this. You want to see what this stupid building is I am staring at in the distance. You're only 9, but Tifa's tits are going to make you feel stuff. You're going to witness murder in 3D you little fuck. TELL YOUR GRANDMA YOU WANT PLAYSTATION. DON'T BE A BITCH.
I was holding a milkshake from dairy queen and squeezed it and gasped. Shits leaking everywhere like Chunk in the opening of The Goonies.
"GRANDMA. HOLY FUCK. I DONT KNOW WHAT SONY IS BUT NINTENDO IS GAY I WANT PLAYSTATION"
Grandma's cracking up while trying to yell at me. Her coworkers (she worked at Sears, lol) were trying to not laugh, too.
For Xmas that year, I got a Playstation. My dumbass friends all stuck to their guns and got N64s.
They fucked up. You could see/hear it in their voices whenever they'd come over to play Playstation. They'd try to be like WELL N64 HAS... UH.. TUROK AND IT HAS A TRIGGER
... I HAD TO BUY A MEMORY EXPANSION BECAUSE UH... ITS BETTER THAN PLAYSTATION SO.
We were stupid kids man. but I was smart enough to not get a fucking N64. I didn't squander my sweet Sears hookup Xmas present.
My grandma used to get sweet deals. She'd get dibs on layaways that people never came and picked up. So it would count as open box, and she'd get an employee discount.
Sears is going out of business now, and maybe that's why, but fuck it. She got a Sega Genesis in 1991 for 65% off, brand new.
BTW: I got PS1 Xmas of 1997. Slightly behind the curve there. I was 9. SNES/TG/Genesis were fine, sorta. lol.
That was a magical fuckin time to be a cracked out kid looking for games. FF7 was a year old and I traded in Kid Chameleon, Shaq Fu, and Risk for Genesis, and got FF7.
I didn't get FF7 at Christmas, and was sort of disappointed, but only kind of. It came with an FF7 demo in it. My grandma was like "See if you like it before you buy it."
I didn't understand what a demo disc was.
It was fucking brilliant. That thing came with the FF7/Bushido Blade demo, and the other demo disc that had Fighting Force, Tomb Raider 2, Die Hard and a bunch of other shit on it to play.
Remember the demo cartridge compilations for N64 so you could sample all the ga..... oh.
lol.
That Christmas was like a coked out roller coaster ride anyways.
That side of the family (my dads) came over for Xmas eve and we did shit at night, and then in the morning we went to my other side of the family's house.
I was that weird kid that opened small things first. The big stuff waited. The first thing I opened was Oddworld. I kept seeing the commercial for it, and was fucking nuts for it.
I was like "I don't have a Playstation... I can't play this." My mom took it from me and goes oohhh sorry... that's for your aunt/uncle's Playstation we gave it to you by mistake.
Me being 9, I was too dumb to piece together anything and just believed them and got sad. So I opened other stuff. Literally remember nothing because I was about to kick the tree out the goddamn window.
and then I open the last thing, and I didn't know what the hell it was at first because the PS1 box was red/gray/kind of plain until you ripped open and saw the top part.
Once I realized what it was, I had a stroke basically. Super amped up. HOLY SHIT LETS PLAY THIS THING. ---> Get told we'll hook it up in the morning ---> could not sleep. Rolled around like a fish out of water.
In a twilighty daze at like 10am, my dad was like "hey retard" (yes, this is how we all communicated, lol), "lets go hook it up".
I shot up and did that thing where you stand up too fast and black out. Faceplanted in the dining room, skidded, got called a retard again, and then we went and hooked that bitch up.
I popped in the FF7 demo and we all sat there like "Holy fuck that is 3D as fuck" and just stared at it. It was great.
Playstation fucking ruled. Jumping Flash, Tenchu, Metal Gear Solid. My friends all fucking hated me. I still go "dhruhdrdr QUEST 64. hduhrudrh" to my one friend to pick on him for being an idiot.
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 11/20/2017, 07:29 PMHa, no shit. I've been doing my best to buy Nintendo hardware that wasn't purple or clear purple or gold and it turns out N64 kids love that shit. Yet another side affect of eating breakfast cereal for every meal of every day, which as we know, N64 fans do.
I always wanted a Watermelon N64 but never got one. I just have a regular piece of shit one.
I once rode my bike to Funcoland to buy one because they claimed they had one.
I got there, they didn't have it, so I walked out with a Sega Saturn and Magic Knight Rayearth for a grand total of 60$.
Great things happen when you don't buy fucking N64.
You sound like a really sad person.
The N64 is the fun machine.
Let it bring some fun back into your bitter and hardened corpse of a life.
I eventually picked up a Pikachu 64 on clearance at Toys R Us. I knew there was a few games I wanted for it, but yeah, had fun with my PS1 & evenually got the Saturn as well.
I got a Playstation on launch and loved every minute of it. I got the N64 on launch as well and only played Mario64. My Playstation still saw a ton more use than my n64 ever did. I don't hate n64. The 2 consoles are apples and oranges to me. If FF7 came out on N64 it would have been a completely garbage game guaranteed. Likewise Goldeneye on Playstation would have sucked too. Each one has it's own quirks and games that were good and bad. At the end of the day play the Wonderswan on real hardware and Mortal Kombat on portables sucks.
Why would Goldeneye have sucked on the Playstation?
Quote from: HuMan on 11/21/2017, 02:55 AMYou sound like a really sad person.
The N64 is the fun machine.
Let it bring some fun back into your bitter and hardened corpse of a life.
Only a total dumbassed N64 lover would call me a sad person after an exciting christmas story about Playstation.
I rest my case.
well If I've learned anything from a thread on the wonderswan it's this:
Great things happen when you don't buy a N64
That being said I have an N64 for sale . . .
Anyone?
Quote from: guest on 11/21/2017, 12:22 PMWhy would Goldeneye have sucked on the Playstation?
Quote from: HuMan on 11/21/2017, 02:55 AMYou sound like a really sad person.
The N64 is the fun machine.
Let it bring some fun back into your bitter and hardened corpse of a life.
Only a total dumbassed N64 lover would call me a sad person after an exciting christmas story about Playstation.
I rest my case.
You don't love the thing he loves, you therefore must be sad.
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 11/21/2017, 02:12 PMQuote from: Psycho Arkhan on 11/21/2017, 12:22 PMWhy would Goldeneye have sucked on the Playstation?
Quote from: HuMan on 11/21/2017, 02:55 AMYou sound like a really sad person.
The N64 is the fun machine.
Let it bring some fun back into your bitter and hardened corpse of a life.
Only a total dumbassed N64 lover would call me a sad person after an exciting christmas story about Playstation.
I rest my case.
You don't love the thing he loves, you therefore must be rad.
fixed it.
Main 2 reasons Goldeneye would have sucked on Playstation, load times and no built in 4 player support. Reasons why FF7 would have sucked on N64, because it's an N64 and it would have had some ridiculous gimmicky camera and would have needed to be on an obscene number of carts, plus crap music.
Reasons why all of these games would suck on the wonderswan? Because it's a wonderswan.
http://youtu.be/XYGiLY_VHpA
PLEASE INSERT CART 2.
I can see the 007 multiplayer argument, but, the game would have been better on PS1 if you had a multitap. PS1 had good FPS games. You just played them alone.
lol
Powerslave, Disruptor, and Tenka all peed all over N64
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 11/19/2017, 03:07 PMIt really is. The only downside is that they only offered terrible case colors after so many cool ones for the earlier systems.
Yeah, I wasn't too picky. The bundle that I got from another forum member here got me the original monochrome unit. A boxed but pink SwanColor and 10 games for 50.00. I spent about the same amount on the SwanCrystal itself, but it's well worth it if you actually want to be able to see games that are in color.
whys it always gotta be about color.
Both Goldeneye (a massively overrated game if there ever was one) and FFVII were very much designed for their systems. If the teams were flipped to work on the opposite machine they wouldn't designed those games that way in the first place. Once Square realized they could stream FMV into backgrounds THEN they got interested in hogging up three CDs. FFVI was one 32mbit cart and it was extremely well received. The reason the sucky sucky N64 has zero RPGs isn't because of the cart thing. It's because the thing was a stupid expensive PITA to dev for and RPG makers are (were) constantly trying to avoid that kind of shit since their games are inherently expensive already for reasons that have nothing to do with hardware. They don't need extra work, it doesn't pay off. The 16 bit devs still left moved their RPGs to PS (since it was actually out). When the N64 came out most of the genres that were so popular on SFC (RPGs, fighting, strategy, 2D platformers) went almost totally unrepresented on the new machine so anyone interested in making them for N64 would have to be the first and not a lot of people cared since Crusin' and KI and blurrybrown-ass Goldeneye were now a new segment.
Likewise the interest in four player split screen. It wasn't Goldeye that did this it was the N64. If they were making it for PS then it would probably never have been four player but it would have tons of streaming audio and video instead.
RPGs always cost a shitload. Phantasy Star 2 was like 100$.
Cartridges sucked back then for large things.
Even something as goobered out as Beyond the Beyond is better than any RPG N64 would've ever managed, probably.
Quote from: guest on 11/20/2017, 03:28 AMQuote from: Michirin9801 on 11/20/2017, 02:41 AMAs I said again and again, and will say as many times as I have to, what matters is the games, my experience was different, but it's still valid, because I've played the games and have something to say about them, and so I will!
Yeah, so remember how I said it's clear you don't care about the machine, and care about the games, and you said:
Quoteand you can't tell me how much I can or cannot appreciate something, or how interested in it I am, because you can't see inside of my mind, and by trying to do that you make an arse of yourself...
lol.
You missed the point entirely...
To me, playing the games is more important than replicating a certain experience, but even though I say that, I still want to have that experience, but having it is not as high in my priority list as getting to play the games, I'll get to it when I can, I'll tell you what I think when I get to have said experience, whether my perspective changes or not we'll see...
Quote from: guest on 11/20/2017, 03:28 AMYour horizons aren't truly expanded until you play these things the right way. It's just a cut/dry fact. No amount of enthusiasm will change this. Right now, you're having a valid invalid experience.
You also miss the point of the validity of my experience, I never even pretended to say that I was having the same experience as you, in fact, I made it clear long ago that I wasn't, you know how I said I wasn't having an authentic experience? Yes, I recognised that, from the very beginning...
But the point is that even though my experience wasn't the same, it was still a valid and worthwhile way of experiencing the games I did, there's no "one true way" of experiencing a game, you just fail to recognise that because you think in absolutes...
Quote from: guest on 11/20/2017, 03:28 AMYou are missing out. There are atmospheric things about video games that you are completely hosing yourself from experiencing, all because you've convinced yourself all that matters is the games themselves. This is one of those times where having access to everything via emulation is a bad thing.
Yes, I'm missing out on having the same experience you did, but I'm not missing out on playing the games, because I've played them...
Quote from: guest on 11/20/2017, 03:28 AMYes, and redesigning the game changes the game from the expected setup, and often sucks. So when you're dealing with a changed game AND a probably shitty dpad, it can suck doubly. Especially in HandheldLand(TM) where you can't change the controller.
Again, only if you do it wrong, and the GBA fighters did it right...
Quote from: guest on 11/20/2017, 03:28 AMThe correct comparison would be to use Gameboy/GB Color games, and those Street Fighter/MKs/etc. games are all complete horseshit. The only reason you played those ever is because you didn't buy a NGPC, and didn't want to be seen with a fuckin Tiger handheld in public.
In the case of the NGPC and Wonderswan fighters, they were both dialed down to handheld land fine. Where Wonderswan falls apart though, is it's controls suck by comparison to it's direct competition.
Again, this is why the NGPC was awesome. The best handheld fighting you're going to get is the NGPC/Wonderswan stuff. The best handheld experience you're actually going to get, is the NGPC one.
(Note: I say this WRT to fighting games. Outside of fighting games, neither machine is better than the other except for at the time, you had to import a Wonderswan, so you weren't playing that shit probably)
I only brought up the GBA fighters because someone else brought them up...
I never said the GBC/GB had better fighters than the NGPC, heck I even agree that it doesn't...
This whole discussion only started because I said I thought the NGPC was underwhelming, allow me to better explain what I meant:
The games themselves are perfectly fine, what I don't like about the system are its often bland colours in sprites, which btw, is a problem that someone who actually played on the real handheld also had:
Quote from: seieienbu on 11/18/2017, 03:30 PMAside from the buttons, the only thing that ever bugged my about the NGPC fighters was that you generally had black, white, clear, and 1 accent color per sprite.
and the poor sound, which is by far my biggest gripe with the system and is something that's not gonna go away even if I play on the real thing...
But again, even if I do have these problems with the system, I still think the games are good! I just feel that these bland graphics and crappy sound makes the game feel like it's less than the sum of its parts... If you don't feel that way, that's perfectly fine, don't let my opinion take away from your enjoyment from the games or the system...
The reason why I brought up specs was to justify why I think NGPC games generally don't look any better than GBC games... I was talking about graphics, not about gameplay!
But the GB/GBC is always gonna have better sound because it can do more waveforms than just square waves...
Quote from: guest on 11/20/2017, 03:28 AMlol, you say this with idiotic confidence, considering you just had to have the whole "hardcore fighting game" thing explained to you like 45 seconds ago.
Then tell me, why do you, or whoever you're in agreement with, can get away without spelling out stuff that you're implying, but I have to spell out everything that I mean?
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 11/20/2017, 03:16 PMThe games are more important than the hardware, I admit. However when the games and hardware were designed together to do something no other hardware can, then it becomes impossible to separate the two.
I get why a game that was designed to be played on a specific system might be better enjoyed if played on the real thing, that said though, if you DO separate the two, and the game still holds up on its own, (like a lot of the Wonderswan stuff does) then hey ho! The game held up well over time, and that's a good thing!
Quote from: guest on 11/21/2017, 06:14 PMRPGs always cost a shitload. Phantasy Star 2 was like 100$.
Cartridges sucked back then for large things.
Even something as goobered out as Beyond the Beyond is better than any RPG N64 would've ever managed, probably.
Ehh there are lots of nice 16-bit RPGs. It's very conceivable that something lacking cutscenes or voice acting could very easily be done with entirely 3D environments on the N64. Or simply a 2D RPG like many others that were still coming out on the Saturn and Playstation.
Quote from: Michirin9801 on 11/21/2017, 06:28 PMYou missed the point entirely...
The irony.
QuoteYou also miss the point of the validity of my experience, I never even pretended to say that I was having the same experience as you, in fact, I made it clear long ago that I wasn't, you know how I said I wasn't having an authentic experience? Yes, I recognised that, from the very beginning...
But the point is that even though my experience wasn't the same, it was still a valid and worthwhile way of experiencing the games I did, there's no "one true way" of experiencing a game, you just fail to recognise that because you think in absolutes...
I'm not thinking in absolutes. I'm aware there's more than one way of experiencing a game. I literally talked about the SuperGameboy and GBA player.
That's whole reason why we're having this discussion.
The point is, you want your unintended/undesigned experience to have just as much weight in a discussion because to YOU it's all about the games. You're missing out on half of the experience.
You're a game-greedy emulator jockey at this point. You have a completely different, semi-misguided understanding and appreciation of what you are playing. Until you've played these things the correct way, all you have is your opinions of how you experienced games out of context. That's it. You're comparing emulator experiences of handhelds, free of the things that actually separated the handhelds, so all you can do is comment on music and visuals that don't even look like they're supposed to, or sound like they should.
Hearing someone talk about appreciation of handheld games that they've not played on the handheld is dense. You started this Wonderswan thread without thinking about what the thread is actually about.
The Wonderswan to everyone here but you, is this handheld doodad we all held and fucked around with at one point in our lives. To you, it's a .exe you dropped a ROM onto.
Can you start to see where the whole "validity" thing is coming from?
Yes, you can compare the games and be like WELL SHOOT THIS ONES BLAND LOOKING
... on your backlit, scaled monitor. Compared to a game that was originally black and white. The comparisons are all goony.
QuoteYes, I'm missing out on having the same experience you did, but I'm not missing out on playing the games, because I've played them...
*Incorrectly.
QuoteThis whole discussion only started because I said I thought the NGPC was underwhelming, allow me to better explain what I meant:
The games themselves are perfectly fine, what I don't like about the system are its often bland colours in sprites, which btw, is a problem that someone who actually played on the real handheld also had
You literally should not say anything about "the system" until you've had one in your hands and played it. Emulators don't count for commenting on a handheld.
QuoteThen tell me, why do you, or whoever you're in agreement with, can get away without spelling out stuff that you're implying, but I have to spell out everything that I mean?
We didn't imply anything. You just didn't know what we were talking about. We used an obvious term and you didn't understand it completely. Instead, you took offense and went "REEEEEEEEE FIGHTING GAMESHMGLFLGFNTLNT."
If I'm in agreement with someone, of course they don't have to spell anything out. It's clear that I understood and agreed with them. Duh?
Lots of people I disagree with don't have to spell anything out either. We just go back and forth arguing various points.
You on the other hand just leave stuff out/don't articulate your own points well, which leads to problems including disagreements that wouldn't be if you articulated a point better, sometimes you contradict yourself, and then wonder why you're being argued with. Sometimes you're basically just delivering half-baked opinions with little consideration for how you're going to sound, because you're basically oblivious sometimes.
You have a lot to learn about gaming experiences, I think. You're in an emulator bubble. There's a whole side of gaming that's flown right by you.
Go find an arcade. Force yourself to put money in it and play things. If you start to tell yourself "I can just download this and play it at home! IT ALL ABOUT THE GAMESSSS!", ask someone nearby to hit you in the face and then try again.
After you play some games, and regain feeling in your face, pull out a handheld that isn't backlit, and play that bastard right there in the arcade. Bonus experience if you use a Tiger handheld.
You've become so accustomed to just gorging yourself on ROMs that I don't think you have an actual appreciation or understanding of *hardware* and their role in a gaming experience. It's all ephemeral bullshit to you.
and before you pull some stupid argument like "oh this is a "back in my day" argument", just stop right there.
The validity of it still exists now. Play Taiko Drum master at home on those dumb home controllers, and then go play it in an arcade or something. Totally different.
Fighting games have a totally different experience in an arcade even today. Most Rhythm games do too. Even if you buy the home controller.
QuoteI get why a game that was designed to be played on a specific system might be better enjoyed if played on the real thing, that said though, if you DO separate the two, and the game still holds up on its own, (like a lot of the Wonderswan stuff does) then hey ho! The game held up well over time, and that's a good thing!
All of these games held up well over time. The only way they wouldn't hold up is if you start comparing them to things you shouldn't be comparing them to.
Even stupid fucking Tiger handhelds are still fun to play. I say this with confidence having just played a few of them yesterday.
Except for MegaMan 2.
Why the fuck does he have an ammo count on his regular cannon.
The Gauntlet tiger handheld is actually really cool. So is marble madness.
Quote from: DragonmasterDan on 11/21/2017, 06:49 PMQuote from: Psycho Arkhan on 11/21/2017, 06:14 PMRPGs always cost a shitload. Phantasy Star 2 was like 100$.
Cartridges sucked back then for large things.
Even something as goobered out as Beyond the Beyond is better than any RPG N64 would've ever managed, probably.
Ehh there are lots of nice 16-bit RPGs. It's very conceivable that something lacking cutscenes or voice acting could very easily be done with entirely 3D environments on the N64. Or simply a 2D RPG like many others that were still coming out on the Saturn and Playstation.
Yea, but a full 3D RPG on N64... how much would that have cost, and how would it have compared to a PS1 game that was cheaper, with more features?
A full 2D one would have been doable for sure, but then, how well would that have sold on the "OMFG 3D N64!!11123"?
Quote from: guest on 11/21/2017, 06:14 PMRPGs always cost a shitload. Phantasy Star 2 was like 100$.
Cartridges sucked back then for large things.
Even something as goobered out as Beyond the Beyond is better than any RPG N64 would've ever managed, probably.
That reminds me, FFVII cost like 4000 yen less than FFVI, I think. Devs like that too.
PS II was like $50. PSIV was $99.99 USD because Sega wanted to prove Americans don't like RPGs. The JP version was like 6800 yen I think, much cheaper, and by that point the Genesis market was bigger than JP Megadrive by a mile.
The highest price I ever saw on any other US cart RPG was Chrono Trigger at, I think, $82.99, which was EB. Nobody else charged that much for it that I saw.
[Edited for Clarity]
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 11/21/2017, 07:52 PMQuote from: Psycho Arkhan on 11/21/2017, 06:14 PMRPGs always cost a shitload. Phantasy Star 2 was like 100$.
Cartridges sucked back then for large things.
Even something as goobered out as Beyond the Beyond is better than any RPG N64 would've ever managed, probably.
That reminds me, FFVII cost like 4000 yen less than FFVI, I think. Devs like that too.
PS II was like $50. PSIV was $99.99 USD because Sega wanted to prove Americans don't like RPGs. The JP version was like 6800 yen I think, much cheaper, and by that point the Genesis market was bigger than JP Megadrive by a mile.
The highest price I ever saw on a US cart RPG was Chrono Trigger at, I think, $82.99, which was EB. Nobody else charged that much for it that I saw.
I swear Phantasy Star 2 cost alot, too. I know PS4 was alot.
Chrono Trigger was 74.99 when I cried my way into getting it as a 7 year old.
Man that shit ruled.
N64 games were always like 10$ more than PS1 equivalents. lol, and the wrestling games sucked on N64. I remember my friend being really mad that he had garbage versions of intro music while PS1 was perfectly fine.
Phantasy Star II was expensive, I pre-ordered it.
The price was mentioned in mags at the time. Maybe if they didn't feel the need to include a full guide book it would have been cheaper, but they likely weren't expecting it to sell well.
PSIV was just that much more overpriced as a Genesis game when it came out. It was $135 CAD here (at Zellers), but FFIII and Chrono Trigger were $130 around that period. Earthbound was $100 at the same store and even in the big city, Super Mario RPG was like $150 when it was released.
Quote from: guest on 11/21/2017, 07:04 PMYea, but a full 3D RPG on N64... how much would that have cost, and how would it have compared to a PS1 game that was cheaper, with more features?
A full 2D one would have been doable for sure, but then, how well would that have sold on the "OMFG 3D N64!!11123"?
I recall a few games like Resident Evil 2 (a two disc PSone game) coming out on N64 and it was about 80.00, so it could definitely happen but it would be pricey.
Yeah, thinking about a game like Legend of Legaia on N64 makes me go "damn that'd be nuts"
(http://i67.tinypic.com/30c7uxv.jpg)
I said I would post it, so here's my N64 library!
30 games, including a lot of the classics. A couple dupes or sports games though. Wish I still had some of my former games like Banjo Kazooie, F-Zero and Majora's Mask.
Still plenty of games I'd like to own. High on the list are Hydro Thunder, Bomberman 64, and Duke Nukem. Bangai-O is a pipe dream.
Only got these 3 controllers, the default, the Makopad and the Hori. I'd love to own an Ice Blue n64 someday.
Nice to be home from college for a few days for break. I finally finished Turok 3, which I was going to do last summer but got hung up on the finally level somewhere. Got some Diddy Kong Racing and Mortal Kombat 4 multiplayer in as well.
lol, that bed full of carts tells a sad tale of games that could've been better.
Quote from: guest on 11/21/2017, 10:38 PMI said I would post it, so here's my N64 library!
30 games, including a lot of the classics. A couple dupes or sports games though. Wish I still had some of my former games like Banjo Kazooie, F-Zero and Majora's Mask.
Still plenty of games I'd like to own. High on the list are Hydro Thunder, Bomberman 64, and Duke Nukem. Bangai-O is a pipe dream.
Only got these 3 controllers, the default, the Makopad and the Hori. I'd love to own an Ice Blue n64 someday.
Nice to be home from college for a few days for break. I finally finished Turok 3, which I was going to do last summer but got hung up on the finally level somewhere. Got some Diddy Kong Racing and Mortal Kombat 4 multiplayer in as well.
How do you like that Makopad? Does it feel well made?
You have a lot of great games there. Some of my favorites there are Shadows of the Empire, Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, Tony Hawk 2, Smash Bros, and Rayman 2. Some others that I liked were Chameleon Twist 1 & 2, Space Station Silicon Valley, Pokemon Snap, and Conker's Bad Fur Day.
I know everyone hates the N64, but there were some great exclusives on the system. To be fair, there wasn't much in the way of RPGs or shooters, but there were some fun adventure and platformer games. Many of which still haven't been re-released.
I don't think that anyone cares enough negatively to hate the N64 and the few who do are console war motivated. The biggest problem it has image-wise is the insane hype and revisionism by its devout worshippers.
Quote from: crazydean on 11/22/2017, 12:23 AMHow do you like that Makopad? Does it feel well made?
Build quality is solid although it is a bit quirky. Both the motion of the stick and the dpad shape are a bit wide.
Quote from: CrackTiger on 11/22/2017, 04:40 PMI don't think that anyone cares enough negatively to hate the N64 and the few who do are console war motivated. The biggest problem it has image-wise is the insane hype and revisionism by its devout worshippers.
Yeah, to be fair I didn't grow up with an N64. So unlike others who had to sit through droughts, I can play pretty much anything on there without having to wait. It must have been torturous waiting 8 months extra for every Tony Hawk port to come out! Still way better than having a Wii U.
I think the gamecube has worse revisionism than the N64. At least "some" of the n64's multiplats were the best versions, and 1st party was truly excellent. The only series missing was Metroid, but the Turok games had a lot of the same developers behind the Prime series. I personally feel Nintendo wasn't as strong on the Gamecube, at least with Mario and Zelda (exception being Melee), and the 3rd party games were mostly ps2 ports.
I think 1st party Cube games are way better than N64s. 3rd party is super bad on both but even there my favorites are Cube.
I'm no Cube superfan, I really only care about maybe a dozen games, but those are games I really really like.
Somewhat separate/related to that; the Cube seemed like it was fairly well planned and executed except for there being crap for 3rd party. The Gameboy Player looked like it was made to go there all along, the controller was really good for everything but old school games and fighters. Load times are still very very good on 1st party titles, almost non existent. They did a great job. The N64 on the other hand was designed for "Mario 64 and...whatever we come up with after the system launches." and kind was in a controlled high profit crash dive from the beginning.
The N64 was the beginning of Nintendo and their fans pretending 3rd parties don't matter. The Cube was less problematic in that area, IMO.
I remember that Starfox game on Gamecube was both fun and fucking annoying at the same time
WHY ISN'T THIS METROID ---> me, while playing it.
I remember Gamecube being disappointing as hell when I got it, mainly because of the lack of RPG presence, as fucking usual with Nintendo anymore.
n64 turned them into a company that blasts out 4 player party machines that assume you have friends.
assholes.
So the real problem is you have no friends?
Quote from: guest on 11/22/2017, 10:29 PMI remember that Starfox game on Gamecube was both fun and fucking annoying at the same time
WHY ISN'T THIS METROID ---> me, while playing it.
I remember Gamecube being disappointing as hell when I got it, mainly because of the lack of RPG presence, as fucking usual with Nintendo anymore.
n64 turned them into a company that blasts out 4 player party machines that assume you have friends.
assholes.
The Cube has like 4 real RPGs, which is 4 more than the N64.
I don't remember if I even played a Cube Star Fox game, I hated the N64 one sooooo much, and then Furries blew up, so I guess I don't care about that series any more.
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 11/23/2017, 04:05 AMThe Cube has like 4 real RPGs, which is 4 more than the N64.
Don't forget Quest 64!
I'm not forgetting it, I've disqualified it. I'd rather play early Cosmic Fantasy games.
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 11/22/2017, 10:18 PMI think 1st party Cube games are way better than N64s. 3rd party is super bad on both but even there my favorites are Cube.
I'm no Cube superfan, I really only care about maybe a dozen games, but those are games I really really like.
Somewhat separate/related to that; the Cube seemed like it was fairly well planned and executed except for there being crap for 3rd party. The Gameboy Player looked like it was made to go there all along, the controller was really good for everything but old school games and fighters. Load times are still very very good on 1st party titles, almost non existent. They did a great job. The N64 on the other hand was designed for "Mario 64 and...whatever we come up with after the system launches." and kind was in a controlled high profit crash dive from the beginning.
The N64 was the beginning of Nintendo and their fans pretending 3rd parties don't matter. The Cube was less problematic in that area, IMO.
Yeah the Gamecube is a fun system. Like you said the controller works for just about everything, including every game you'd want to play on the system anyway.
Honestly if the system only had Fire Emblem Path of Radiance I'd keep it. That game is that much of a favourite of mine. However it also has a lot of other fun games. Mario Sunshine was enjoyable, it introduced Pikmin, had stuff like Metroid Prime, Tales of Symphonia etc... Also some solid ports of Dreamcast games but that was never a big deal for me, I have those games on Dreamcast.
Due to the size of the game library though, it's probably my second least played console of that gen (behind the Xbox which nobody played). Which accounts for multiple Fire Emblem runs and lots of time on Mario Kart and Smash Bros. The total game libraries of the PS2 and Dreamcast were just much more appealing to me.
I've certainly played it way more than the N64 though. Especially after the year 2001 or so. I played a lot of the better N64 titles when they were fresh. When I was younger they were amazing. Every time I try to go back to play one I'm generally like NOPE. I did somehow get through a replay of Banjo Kazooie this year. The end of that game was just as annoying as I remember as a kid too.
Quote from: guest on 11/21/2017, 08:07 PMPhantasy Star II was expensive, I pre-ordered it.
The price was mentioned in mags at the time. Maybe if they didn't feel the need to include a full guide book it would have been cheaper, but they likely weren't expecting it to sell well.
PSIV was just that much more overpriced as a Genesis game when it came out. It was $135 CAD here (at Zellers), but FFIII and Chrono Trigger were $130 around that period. Earthbound was $100 at the same store and even in the big city, Super Mario RPG was like $150 when it was released.
We are spoiled now.
Oh and OP, nice thread. I've never really delved into the games for this system so it was interesting for me to read about.
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 11/21/2017, 07:52 PMThe highest price I ever saw on any other US cart RPG was Chrono Trigger at, I think, $82.99, which was EB. Nobody else charged that much for it that I saw.
I vividly recall seeing Street Fighter Alpha 2 for SNES on sale at Babbages for $90. Meanwhile the (much better) Saturn version was $50. They also had FF2 for $60 and FF3 for $70. I thiiiink Chrono Trigger was $75; I only recall that it was a bit more expensive than FF3.
Meanwhile I remember PS1 games being, at most, $50 for single disk games and $60 for multi disk games.
Quote from: guest on 11/22/2017, 04:40 PMI don't think that anyone cares enough negatively to hate the N64 and the few who do are console war motivated. The biggest problem it has image-wise is the insane hype and revisionism by its devout worshippers.
I think that sums up the N64 pretty well; I feel it's the most overrated system of all time. There's just nothing I ever want to play on there aside from maybe Mischief Makers. Between the smeary mess graphics, the fact that damn near everything on the platform is 3D when it's still too early for that stuff to look good, and controls/camers that weren't figured out yet it's like a console of nothing but growing pains.
It certainly doesn't help my opinion that the oft times called "best game of all time," Zelda 64, is just a slower and worse version of Zelda 3. I seriously feel like it's the exact same game just in clunky 3D with
booooring combat. Find 3 things, get the master sword, world changes up, find 7 things, fight Ganon. As for the combat? Almost every enemy feels the same; wait for it to show it's weak spot then attack. If it isn't dead then repeat the cycle. It's not interesting it's just dull. I get that the game is in 3D and that a 3D world was new at the time but is there really any reason why Link has to slowly open the chest, lean over, stand up, and then watch the item spinning around in 3D? Maybe that was super cool to some people 20 years ago but I found it tedious to the then and I can't handle it today.
Quote from: Gypsy on 11/23/2017, 02:33 PMYeah the Gamecube is a fun system. Like you said the controller works for just about everything, including every game you'd want to play on the system anyway.
I tend to think that the GC controller works fine for GC games but it doesn't work well for GBA games.
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 11/23/2017, 04:05 AMQuote from: Psycho Arkhan on 11/22/2017, 10:29 PMI remember that Starfox game on Gamecube was both fun and fucking annoying at the same time
WHY ISN'T THIS METROID ---> me, while playing it.
I remember Gamecube being disappointing as hell when I got it, mainly because of the lack of RPG presence, as fucking usual with Nintendo anymore.
n64 turned them into a company that blasts out 4 player party machines that assume you have friends.
assholes.
The Cube has like 4 real RPGs, which is 4 more than the N64.
I don't remember if I even played a Cube Star Fox game, I hated the N64 one sooooo much, and then Furries blew up, so I guess I don't care about that series any more.
It's a Zelda-ish game:
http://youtu.be/KWyxVbOa5PA
Its not bad, lol
Quote from: HuMan on 11/23/2017, 02:52 AMSo the real problem is you have no friends?
If you need friends to enjoy a system, it's a failure. Kind of like your posts.
Quote from: guest on 11/23/2017, 07:50 PMIf you need friends to enjoy a system, it's a failure. Kind of like your posts.
lol you have no friends
at least I'm not still bitter about a console that launched 21 years ago.
Im not bitter about the N64, I just think its a dumb piece of shit.
Is there a console that makes you happy?
Quote from: HuMan on 11/23/2017, 11:28 PMIs there a console that makes you happy?
CLEARLY THE SUPERGRAFX
Quote from: HuMan on 11/23/2017, 11:28 PMIs there a console that makes you happy?
No. Of course not. If the N64 can't do it then he is NEVER HAPPY.
Where do get such selfish notions? Why does everyone have to like your dumb POS favorite, especially on this forum of all places? The N64 is the least PCE-like console of its day. Expect people here to shit on it.
Frankly, people who hate a lot of things, unimportant things like this, music, whstever, are usually just try to yell at the world for liking the wrong shit. If they are unhappy about anything it's that the world seems additcted to bad decisions. Usually their ability to enjoy a thing is massively beyond retards who think the N64 was good. People who own massive record collections think your Black Eyed Peas CD is garbage too. Does that mean they don't enjoy their own music? How? What "everyone's opinion has validity " sort of bullshit is that anyway?
Lol. Here we go again.
pce and psx make me feel good.
i mean, i just posted vivid memories of getting psx.
dudududuuuiirruurrurururhrhrur
Quote from: guest on 11/24/2017, 06:00 PMpce and psx make me feel good.
i mean, i just posted vivid memories of getting psx.
dudududuuuiirruurrurururhrhrur
But you said something negative so that gets deleted. You probably don't support free speech for Nazis either. You're harshing my buzz, man. Grow up.
Hell, Ark probably IS A NAZI. Since he had a negative opinion about something.
neogeopocket auschwitz
What I will never understand is why the Saturn is reviled by most people who played games and the N64 is beloved by the same crowd. Exactly what N64 games withstood the test of time? Even during their lifetimes, I thought that Saturn games were fun to play and N64 games were by and large garbage.
Nintendo fans have a rich history of excusing garbage and acting like it's the best thing since ribbed for her pleasure condoms.
Quote from: seieienbu on 11/24/2017, 10:05 PMWhat I will never understand is why the Saturn is reviled by most people who played games and the N64 is beloved by the same crowd.
Saturn just isn't that well known, right? I don't think anyone hates it, but I also don't know a single dude my age who's actually played one. Most guys I know are at least aware of N64 and PS1
It also died a really early death in America. It's a 5th gen Turbografx.
Quote from: seieienbu on 11/24/2017, 10:05 PMExactly what N64 games withstood the test of time?
Super Mario 64
1080 Snowboarding
Banjo Kazooie
Mario Kart 64
Smash Bros
Tony Hawk (had a better soundtrack on ps1 but still counts right?)
F-Zero X
NFL Blitz
Doom 64
Sin and Punishment
Rayman 2
Hydro Thunder
Ridge Racer 64
Mario Tennis
Turok 3 (has the weapons from 2 but isn't a confusing mess, and has stages like Half Life and even Turok 1!)
Some of these games had better versions or sequels elsewhere, but they all hold up today as fun and solid games, specifically on n64. I use my N64 mostly as a multiplayer machine, but my favorite nintendo games are on it.
Some games I'd say have "aged poorly" are Perfect Dark, Turok 2, Diddy Kong Racing, and Banjo Tooie, whether it's framerate issues or shit design. Some people on here also hate the Zelda games, especially Majora (my personal favorite)
you left Jet Force Gemini and Mischief Makers off that list.
Also, how old are you that you don't know anyone who has played a saturn.
are you 12, lol
Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 11/24/2017, 11:08 PMare you 12, lol
19 dude. Probably the youngest guy here. Was 13 when I joined.
Quote from: PukeSter on 11/24/2017, 11:38 PMQuote from: Psycho Arkhan on 11/24/2017, 11:08 PMare you 12, lol
19 dude. Probably the youngest guy here. Was 13 when I joined.
lol, that sucks not knowing people who have played saturn.
Though, looking back, when I was in elementary school there were two of us that knew wtf a Saturn was.
The rest were all N64-morons, lol
Quote from: seieienbu on 11/24/2017, 10:05 PMWhat I will never understand is why the Saturn is reviled by most people who played games and the N64 is beloved by the same crowd. Exactly what N64 games withstood the test of time? Even during their lifetimes, I thought that Saturn games were fun to play and N64 games were by and large garbage.
I've never heard anyone say bad shit about the Saturn other than. "It failed" or "loser system" which are kinda true. When you say "people" do you mean Facebook or 7th graders in the 90s? Every time I heard a noob talk about the Saturn they usually just gush because its "rare" and "obscure". Anyone who has played more than the three free Netlink games generally has a good opinion of it, from what I've seen, especially Panzer Dragoon games.
Saturn absolutely rules, btw, right up there with PCE.
Saturn is great if you didn't get stuck with just the USA library, lol
Psycho Arkhan is just pissed because nobody has mentioned his favorite system yet.
(?action=dlattach&topic=22794&attach=6893&image)
I bet that guy still has that sweater, and puts it on, sits in a dark room lit by candles only, and listens to the smiths.
Quote from: guest on 11/25/2017, 01:57 PMI bet that guy still has that sweater, and puts it on, sits in a dark room lit by candles only, and listens to the smiths.
Poor guy just needs to be loved just like everybody else does.
i almost got an r zone as a kid. im glad i didnt. lol
i have a strange affection for tiger handhelds though. they are all semi retardy but charming anyways
They really made that segmented LCD shit work for them, even though most everyone had abandoned it by then.
Pinball is genuinely playable. I think there is another one like that. The remaining (aparently hundreds) games are all pretty fucked from what I've seen. The goals were always too lofty. They needed more G&W simplicity and less...Street Fighter Fucking II, which a SNES can barely do.
Yeah, I really like Gauntlet on it.
http://youtu.be/S8h64JXxnRs
omfg you can emulate fucking tiger handhelds?
what in the fuck lol
you want to talk "not the real experience", emulate a tiger handheld.
I can't even imagine how stupid that feels in an emulator
brb downloading.
Here's someone that isn't an idiot playing it
http://youtu.be/7yfOYLIjKpM
It was , and still is surprisingly amusing.