I remember playing SF2 in the arcades at first and then seeing it on the SNES sometime in 92 I believe. After that I saw SF2: CE on the Genesis which wasn't all too bad, but did lack in colors and had dirty music. Then SF2 Turbo: Hyper Fighting came out for SNES which was nicer, but still not spectacular. After all of those, I bought Super SF2 on SNES back in 94 or so.
So, I finally got my US Duo modded to play PCE Hucards and also got the nice S-video mod to go with it. I ordered Ninja Spirit for TG-16 and these games for PCE: Nectaris, Legendary Axe, Splatterhouse, Super Star Soldier, Bomberman '94, R-type 2 (I need 1 now, wasn't aware of the split game crap haha) and a brand new SF2: CE. I ended up getting an Avenue pad along with it. All of this from D-lite, thanks.
I am freaking amazed at how good this version of SF2: CE is for its time and now. It has a solid feel to the controls with excellent colors past the SNES versions and has a very good remix of the music. It is missing the parallaxing in the BG, but that never really amazed me in the SF2 games. So, it easily does well without it. I like how the colors seem to be more solid and vibrant than all the other ports, especially with the character sprites for Ken, Mike Bison, Guile etc.... The Avenue pad is easy to use with pulling moves off on this game. The usage of the HuCard PSG is better than the usage of the SNES yamaha music. Also, the PCMs are really impressive for voices and sound effects. The game just has an overall better and different feel to it, even compared to the arcade. It is hard to point it out. Maybe it was kind of redone all together if you look at it closely.
Yeah I think the PCE version has got to be my favorite from the 16-bit console ports (unless you count Super for Genesis). From what I recall, the SNES version had some pillow shading in the graphics that made it look a little generic, while the PCE version used nice smooth shading and looked more colorful than the Genesis version. Also the music in the SNES version just didn't sound right to me and I think it's because it was speeded up or something (CrackTiger mentioned something about this). Each port had their own best and worst versions of songs though, but I generally prefered the PCE version.
One other thing I'd like to comment on (or recomment rather since I posted it before) is that the PCE version seems to fix a "problem" that appeared in other versions of the game. In other versions of the game if you do a Psycho Crusher with Bison and the opponent is blocking, you can easily throw the opponent as soon as the Psyco Crusher ends. I've tried replicating this in the PCE version but it has never happened, while I know for a fact it happens in Super for Genesis and the arcade version as well I think. While it is a fun feeling to throw someone who blocks it, it does unbalance the game.
The Genesis' music was fine, it was the voices that were "dirty". Ug.
The PCE version is indeed quite good, but I don't feel it is any better than SF2 Turbo for the SNES (except for the 6-button controller). I, too, am impressed by the digitized samples in the game. They sound much better than the Genesis version (Capcom really screwed that up). The music is good as well, but a little thin. I do not like the missing layers of scrolling, though. It's weird seeing the elephants slide across the floor in Dalism's stage because of this. Even the SNES version is missing the 3rd layer for some reason (note the missing layer of elephants compared to the arcade). It doesn't affect gameplay, but it sure does look odd. Still, the PC Engine version seems to be based more on the SNES port than the arcade itself as far as graphics (same with the Genesis versions). All of the 16-bit home versions have similarly drawn sprites which look different than the arcade. Same goes with much of the detail in the stages.
By the way, the SNES has a Sony sound chip, and the Genesis a Yamaha.
I'm just putting the finishing touches on a new feature for my site that details the differences between the three versions.
Here's (https://web.archive.org/web/20130717003109if_/http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/sfiice_comp_sprites_page1.html) a sneak peak.
(https://web.archive.org/web/20140915085219im_/https://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/img/sfii_console_vs_logo.jpg)
Quote from: CrackTigerI'm just putting the finishing touches on a new feature for my site that details the differences between the three versions.
Here's a sneak peak.
awesome CrackTiger, but which console is which graphic? I think the one on the far right is the PCE but I dont recognize the other graphics doh.. #-o
Quote from: SNKNostalgia on 07/25/2007, 01:50 AM...R-type 2 (I need 1 now, wasn't aware of the split game crap haha)...
sorry to spin off topic, but i am actually really curious about this. is the r-type hucard split only in the japanese version? isn't there a u.s. hucard that has both parts on it at the same time? i understand there's the japanese "complete" cd with both, and hucards for that region only come in the split. but, for some reason i recall a u.s. hucard release that contains the full game.
please, correct me if i'm wrong.
and, back on subject. wow, i didn't realize that the pce sfii: ce was colorfully (and possibly audibly) superior to the snes rev. i've never bothered to even check it out because i've always really loved the snes rev. looks like i've another hunt to go on now - thanks to you :P
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/25/2007, 02:08 AM...They sound much better than the Genesis version (Capcom really screwed that up)...
hey, don't blame capcom. blame the piece of nuts sound chip in the sega genesis. uggghhh...
Quote from: BonkThis on 07/25/2007, 11:11 AMawesome CrackTiger, but which console is which graphic? I think the one on the far right is the PCE but I dont recognize the other graphics doh.. #-o
it's just marked in the right down corner of each pic :)
sfii_comp_sprite_ryu.png
Quote from: CosMind on 07/25/2007, 11:23 AMplease, correct me if i'm wrong.
you're right.
Quote from: CosMind on 07/25/2007, 11:23 AMlooks like i've another hunt to go on now - thanks to you :P
not that hard to find, neither expensive. don't spend more than $5 on it :)
Quote from: guest on 07/25/2007, 07:51 AMI'm just putting the finishing touches on a new 'feature' for my site that details the differences between the three versions.
Here's (http://superpcenginegrafx.com/sfiice_comp_sprites1.html) a sneak peak.
dude, this is so awesome! I can't wait to show my friends :D
The original "Fighting Street" CD is where it's at.
The images certainly make the Mega Drive version look the weakest.
I grew up with the Super Nintendo and am quite surprised that the PCE is as good as it is.
Can't beat the arcade original (at least the CPS2 versions) though.
Quote from: PhilBiker on 07/25/2007, 03:40 PMThe original "Fighting Street" CD is where it's at.
And by "it" you mean garbage, right? If not, then you deserve a neck punch. :)
the pce version sick pwns the snes version, imo. The snes version looks so bland color wise. I think the genny has better color than the snes in the comparisons, imo.
Quote from: Tatsujin on 07/25/2007, 11:24 AMQuote from: BonkThis on 07/25/2007, 11:11 AMawesome CrackTiger, but which console is which graphic? I think the one on the far right is the PCE but I dont recognize the other graphics doh.. #-o
it's just marked in the right down corner of each pic :)
sfii_comp_sprite_ryu.png
LOL yea, but I have no clue what the first 2 logo's mean, ive never seen them before.. I should be ashamed i know :-&
MD = Megadrive
the "Paw" = Super Famicom
HE = PC Engine
thanks I dont know how I avoided those logos for so long LOL
don't worry about it man, those logos are from japan :wink:
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/25/2007, 02:08 AMBy the way, the SNES has a Sony sound chip, and the Genesis a Yamaha.
It seemed like Yamaha did sound for a lot of systems back then so I still do that. Yeah, SCP700 Sony made sound chip for SNES. Still it has this SNESish sound all the time. It kinda interferes with feel of the sound effects and music.
The colors do seem more faded on the SNES, I wonder why they would do that when the system had full 256 color support and a really high color palette to choose from. Even the Genesis version used more solid blues, reds and greens for example. Of course the Genesis version didn't have as good color transitions with the shades and stuff.
I keep hearing that the Genesis version of Super SF2 is better than the SNES version for some reason. I know the meg count for the SNES is 32Mbit and the Genesis is 40Mbit, maybe that has something to do with it. Also 20Mbit for the PCE SF2:CE is really amazing for that system. Imagine if they upped it some more. This game shows how far they could have gone with the PCE HuCards, not to mention what the arcade card was capable of.
CrackTiger used the Japanese logos for each system since, ummm, there's no US version of the TurboGrafx version I guess.
Quote from: CosMindhey, don't blame capcom. blame the piece of nuts sound chip in the sega genesis. uggghhh...
Capcom is to blame. The Genesis has superior voice capabilities compared to the TurboGrafx.
I blame the lazy programmers as well
OK... lazy and probably inexperienced programmers on Capcom's D-rated team. Capcom and Konami never really gave the Genesis their best efforts.
except of Contra the (Hardcore) Hardcorps!! that one uses de MD hardware to its max.
In the area of animation, speed and gameplay I pretty much agree. But the sound & music was extremely lacking (re: awful) and the graphics a bit more murky than they should have been... though that could have been on purpose.
yeah, the BGs sometime looking some kind of NESish. But the sound rox the hell out, especially stage 2.
I keep hearing the first stage theme in my mind. The guitar sounds like a kazoo or maybe a swarm of angry bees. I have the game and I'll have to play again. By the way, which stage 2 are you talking about?
I think the Genesis can do decent sound samples if they are isolated, but I've noticed the more sound samples that are used the more quickly the quality seems to drop. I suspect the Genesis sound chip has some operational quirks whereby if you don't program it just so it bites. Even some Sega-made games that are great otherwise actually seem to suffer from really low quality sound.
Quote from: SNKNostalgia on 07/25/2007, 05:38 PMThe colors do seem more faded on the SNES, I wonder why they would do that when the system had full 256 color support and a really high color palette to choose from.
Having a high palette count means little if the developers don't know how to use it. :)
Quote from: guest on 07/25/2007, 09:06 PMI think the Genesis can do decent sound samples if they are isolated, but I've noticed the more sound samples that are used the more quickly the quality seems to drop. I suspect the Genesis sound chip has some operational quirks whereby if you don't program it just so it bites. Even some Sega-made games that are great otherwise actually seem to suffer from really low quality sound.
I just think its a developer by developer issue. Not every developer is going to be great at everything and clear samples weren't a big priority back then.
Just as many great PCE games lack in certain areas (
DEII's PSG, Forgotten Worlds' flat bg's, FEOE II's lip sync), any Genesis game could have nice clear voices if the right person was involved.
This discussion brings something else to mind. The SNES had higher sound sample rates and the SNES and PCE had expanded color capacities. Why were the Genesis versions of these games larger than their counterparts on the other systems? Does the Genesis rely on non-optimal sound and graphics data formats? Does it have larger code? But the game code should really be inconsequential here compared to the sound and gfx assets. Someone want to help me out here?
BECAUSE THE GENESIS GAMES WERE PACKED WITH THAT MUCH MORE AWESOME, THAT'S WHY!!!
Seriously though, I imagine that may have been Sega's idea. I don't think the Genesis code is larger or whatnot. I think it's just "padded" to fill up the extra space (or perhaps simply less-optimized) so they can say the largest version is on a Sega system. Though SF2 Special Champion edition did have Turbo features that weren't in the PCE version.
You can trust my experience as a programmer that game code is NEVER inconsequential in terms of size. The PCE and SNES used classic CISC-type processors, both based in the 6502, but the Genesis used a RISC-type processor, the 68000. Codespace immediately expands when you use a RISC-type processor (look at any one of many, many old legacy Macintosh ports for a great real-world example of this). I don't think graphics storage is any different in size amongst the three consoles of the time, considering their sprite capabilities in particular were largely identical (single palette, 16 color maximum) save for sprite size, of course. Tile graphics are usually compressed with cartridge-based media, but different companies used different compression schemes and there was never any real "standard" for that back then. But the code will play a major role in storage capacities, that's why the Mega CD unit was given three times as much RAM as its only competitor at the time (which was, of course, the PCE-CD). They needed that extra storage to hold the additional code that would be required to accomplish the same tasks.
I highly, HIGHLY doubt that a HuCard game that is 2 megs would take up 6 megs of space on the Genesis. In fact when I see a 4 meg game on the Turbo, it seems like a 4 meg game on the Genesis in terms of overall game size, capabilities, features, etc.
Also, doesn't RISC stand for Reduced Instruction Set Computer or similar? Reduced instruction set. That means reduced instructions to accomplish the same tasks. But it really doesn't matter, as the 68000 was CISC based... not RISC.
A RISC-type processor means that the instruction set is reduced, not that the amount of code is reduced. Reduced Instruction Set = fewer instructions on the chip = more instructions needed to perform the same tasks.
There is much conflicting information on the status of the 68000. Many sources state that the 68000 is a CISC processor, but many other sources state that it is a RISC processor. The processor architecture is very old, but it was developed during the "true" rise of the RISC processor. One might argue that the 68000 is a "crossover" between the two architectures. It is certainly true that the 68000 contains fewer instructions than a typical 6502-based CPU, although it may not be a "true" RISC-type CPU. Reputable sources offer conflicting data on this.
I don't remember what was unique about Genesis' Super SFII, but Special Champ Edition has lots of extra graphics not found in the other versions, like the full hate-crime arcade intro, animating defeated portraits and extra bg details.
Plus the sfx samples are long and uncut like the PCE samples. But the SNES ones are cut up and reworked as much as possible. Not only are many sped up or echoed off of brief clips, but voices like 'Shouryuken' are cut to "Sho...yukin". When you hear it in the middle of a match, you'd never notice it. But if you look at a recording of it in a sound program, there's a huge gap.
Capcom put a lot of effort into the SFC/SNES version and not nearly so much into the MD/Gen & PCE versions. But they're all closer as overall games than most people think. They're just different in unique ways, which makes it more interesting to play through them all.
Hate crime? LOL. The Genesis Super SF2 has the animated intro where Ryu throws a huge fireball at the screen. Do the other versions have that? I don't think that would take up 8 megs, though.
Also, it is likely that Capcom clipped the voices of the SNES version into segments. Kind of like how recordings of "forty" and "two" can be pieced together to say "42". They probably did this with some of the moves. But then again, I could be speaking out of my ass!
Quote from: guest on 07/26/2007, 01:11 AMSpecial Champ Edition has lots of extra graphics not found in the other versions, like the full hate-crime arcade intro, animating defeated portraits and extra bg details.
They got rid of the hate crime on the genesis version. Pop it in ur genny and you will be surprised that it is two white guys, unlike the arcade.
That's right! Two white guys cannot possibly hate each other, so no special treatment for that victim!
Anyway I think the Genesis voices sound bad because there is only one DAC in the thing. The game had to be able to play back more than one voice at a time, which it often does. Also you have sampled drums and elephant screeches. The sample rate was probably halved if not quartered to accomplish this through a single channel.
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/25/2007, 10:42 PMI highly, HIGHLY doubt that a HuCard game that is 2 megs would take up 6 megs of space on the Genesis. In fact when I see a 4 meg game on the Turbo, it seems like a 4 meg game on the Genesis in terms of overall game size, capabilities, features, etc.
Also, doesn't RISC stand for Reduced Instruction Set Computer or similar? Reduced instruction set. That means reduced instructions to accomplish the same tasks. But it really doesn't matter, as the 68000 was CISC based... not RISC.
When it comes to code, the 680x0 code will be larger than the 65x02 and 65816 and even it's younger brother, the 6809. And the 68000 opcodes are RISC type in format, not 100% because a few opcode combinations are not possible - they're simulated on the assembler side. Also, any sort of array or data structure that is not a even multiple of 2 bytes, really throws a wrench into the speed of accessing it - usually padded to 16 or 32bit for simplicity or speed, at the expense of size. Trying to turn a disadvantage into a great sales pitch?
Anyway, I remember looking at SF2:CE for PCE and all the characters (frames) were uncompressed graphics. The backgrounds are compressed though (maybe someday I'll write and extraction app for that). The hucard only has access to 8k of ram, so decompressing a bunch of frames into ram for quick access is not an option (snes has 128k and the gens 64k).
I just noticed something about the genesis version, it's running in 256 x 2XX mode. That's kind of strange. They must have done that to save space on graphics. The arcade is 384x224. The PCE could've came really close with it's 380pixel mode(mid res), and the gens with it's 320 pixel mode, but the snes is limited to 256 (the SNES 512 pixel mode is pretty much useless because of the sprite/scanline limit). I haven't played the other Gens versions. I wonder if they run in 320 or not.
Btw, I thought the genesis music was cool and impressive considering the limited number of sounding instruments you have on that yamaha chip. The pce music impressed me more though as the samples sound great for trying to emulate the arcade's instruments. The snes version is least impressive for what it's capable of. Also, the gens isn't known for it's digitized sound playback (most sound effects in genesis games are synth - instruments from it's lib) so the quality of the digitized effects was about what I was expecting.
Quote from: turbo D on 07/26/2007, 01:44 AMQuote from: CrackTiger on 07/26/2007, 01:11 AMSpecial Champ Edition has lots of extra graphics not found in the other versions, like the full hate-crime arcade intro, animating defeated portraits and extra bg details.
They got rid of the hate crime on the genesis version. Pop it in ur genny and you will be surprised that it is two white guys, unlike the arcade.
Only for race obdessed America. The japanese version still has 'white on black' violence while a crowd cheers on.
Quote from: TurboXray on 07/26/2007, 02:08 AMI just noticed something about the genesis version, it's running in 256 x 2XX mode. That's kind of strange. They must have done that to save space on graphics. The arcade is 384x224. The PCE could've came really close with it's 380pixel mode(mid res), and the gens with it's 320 pixel mode, but the snes is limited to 256 (the SNES 512 pixel mode is pretty much useless because of the sprite/scanline limit). I haven't played the other Gens versions. I wonder if they run in 320 or not.
Capcom didn't even
try to port the arcade to Genesis or PCE. They just kept regurgitating the original SNES World Warrior port. The strengths of the Gen & PCE versions' visuals are when they deviate from the SNES version.
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/26/2007, 01:37 AMHate crime? LOL. The Genesis Super SF2 has the animated intro where Ryu throws a huge fireball at the screen. Do the other versions have that? I don't think that would take up 8 megs, though.
The SNES version has the full intro as well. If I remember correctly, the Genesis SSFII has some extra graphics for its tournament mode or something.
Quote from: TurboXrayAlso, the gens isn't known for it's digitized sound playback (most sound effects in genesis games are synth - instruments from it's lib) so the quality of the digitized effects was about what I was expecting.
But the Gens has better digital sound quality than the Turbs. Though the Turbs seems to be able to play more simultaneously than the Gens due to the design of the Turbs' sound hardware. They're both beaten by the SNins, though.
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/26/2007, 02:29 AMQuote from: TurboXrayAlso, the gens isn't known for it's digitized sound playback (most sound effects in genesis games are synth - instruments from it's lib) so the quality of the digitized effects was about what I was expecting.
But the Gens has better digital sound quality than the Turbs. Though the Turbs seems to be able to play more simultaneously than the Gens due to the design of the Turbs' sound hardware. They're both beaten by the SNins, though.
Ehh? Unless you can show my specific examples, all the docs I read state the last channel in the yamaha chip wasn't meant for clean/clear digitized samples- it wasn't as simple as streaming 8bit values to the DAC at 7khz or higher. The SNES effects/voices in black Tigers comparison video(youtube) sound muffled like a lower kHz sample, albeit with filtering. I'm talking about all 3 of the original ports - not sure about the other snes and gen versions/updates/whatever.
I checked out Super SFII on genesis and it runs in 256 pixel mode as well (I couldn't get very far though at the game had emulation problems/corruption).
Click here for Genesis voice examples recorded from real hardware by me.
http://web.archive.org/web/20131205183635id_/http://www.joeredifer.com/crap/GenesisVoiceExamples.mp3
Click here for TurboGrafx voice examples from CrackTiger (I assume from real hardware). (https://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/TurboGrafxVoiceExamples.mp3)
it may would be interessting if someone can make some color counts of few of the same screens shots of each system :)
Quote from: Tatsujin on 07/26/2007, 06:56 AMit may would be interessting if someone can make some color counts of few of the same screens shots of each system :)
If I remember right, the Genesis screenshots are around 40, PCE around 80 and SNES 80 - 120.
About the 68000, according to Wikipedia it's a CISC chip, 16-bit design with many 32-bit registers. Feeding data to 32-bit registers normally requires it be 32-bit data, which should be relatively large if code size is indeed not inconsequential. I know later 680x0 chips were true 32 bit, but the 68000 appears to be something of a bridge or crossover chip, being the first in the series and all. I've always been a little confused by that because the 68030 and on were 32-bit in and out, and early Macintosh code that ran on the 68000-based Macs was 32-bit code and ran fine on the later CPUs. I'm sure, of course, OS support played a role and I doubt the early stuff was written all in assembly, but the "bitness" of the original 68000 has always been a confusing issue.
I love the examples, CrackTiger, is there any chance you can throw up the arcade equivalent next to the 3 you already have for the ultimate comparrison?
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/26/2007, 05:44 AMClick here for Genesis voice examples recorded from real hardware by me.
http://web.archive.org/web/20131205183635id_/http://www.joeredifer.com/crap/GenesisVoiceExamples.mp3
Click here for TurboGrafx voice examples from CrackTiger (I assume from real hardware). (https://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/TurboGrafxVoiceExamples.mp3)
You need to add some samples from the original "Fighting Street" and "Forgotten Worlds" to that TG16/PCE example. Both Capcom and those have to be the absolute WORST! "What strength but don't forget there are many guys like you all over the world!".
I don't remember those Dynamite Headdy sample sounding so high quality on an actual console, or even in an emulator. What's up with that?
Quote from: PhilBiker on 07/26/2007, 12:29 PMQuote from: Joe Redifer on 07/26/2007, 05:44 AMClick here for Genesis voice examples recorded from real hardware by me.
http://web.archive.org/web/20131205183635id_/http://www.joeredifer.com/crap/GenesisVoiceExamples.mp3
Click here for TurboGrafx voice examples from CrackTiger (I assume from real hardware). (https://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/TurboGrafxVoiceExamples.mp3)
You need to add some samples from the original "Fighting Street" and "Forgotten Worlds" to that TG16/PCE example. Both Capcom and those have to be the absolute WORST! "What strength but don't forget there are many guys like you all over the world!".
The voice clips in Forgotten Worlds are fucking hilarious. I laugh every time I play the game (I played it last night so they're fresh on my mind). They never get old, I swear.
"Did you find the guy?"
"I'll finish you today for sure!"
"You cannot finish me with Paramecium alone!"
:lol:
It's obviously the same guy changing the tone of his voice for each of the characaters. Does anyone know if those clips are lifted straight out of the arcade? Obviously a Turbo CD game is capable of so much more, but those FW clips are so horribly awesome I wouldn't have it any other way. Truly a video game classic...
The voices in Fighting Street and Forgotten Worlds rock, but those are not TG-16 voice examples. The ADPCM does those (and they are exactly like the arcades sound).
Quote from: guestI don't remember those Dynamite Headdy sample sounding so high quality on an actual console, or even in an emulator. What's up with that?
There are two possibilities:
#1 - You remember incorrectly. This is the most likely scenario.
#2 - You listened to them on a crappy Genesis 2 (the ones with the messed up sound) or a poorly written emulator which made the voices somehow sound worse. I haven't seen too many emulators that could play Space Harrier II's "Get Ready" voice correctly. It usually sounds slowed-down.
The JP version of forgotten worlds has an option to change the voices not only does it effect the cutscenes but also in game when you get hit or die it longer sounds as if some one is smashing there face on a microphone.
The sound team at Capcom is very poor. There was lots of popping in Street Fighter as well (that's what the distortion is called when you hear the puff of air from the letter "p", etc), not to mention other sorts of distortion from being too close to the mic. Forgotten Worlds has a lot of this and Strider even has a little bit. Totally unprofessional recordings.
Quote from: BonkThis on 07/26/2007, 09:16 AMI love the examples black tiger, is there any chance you can throw up the arcade equivalent next to the 3 you already have for the ultimate comparrison?
Here are some of the 4-way shots I've got ready-
(https://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/img/sfcompg1.gif)(https://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/img/sfcompp1.gif)
(https://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/img/sfcompa1.gif)(https://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/img/sfcomps1.gif)
(https://web.archive.org/web/20141012180111im_/http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/img/sfii_bg_arc_balrog.gif)(https://web.archive.org/web/20141012175916im_/http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/img/sfii_bg_md_balrog.gif)
(https://web.archive.org/web/20141012175531im_/http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/img/sfii_bg_sfc_balrog.gif)(https://web.archive.org/web/20141012180754im_/http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/img/sfii_bg_pce_balrog.gif)
I've got screenshots of all the stages of all four versions.
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/26/2007, 05:44 AMClick here for Genesis voice examples recorded from real hardware by me.
http://web.archive.org/web/20131205183635id_/http://www.joeredifer.com/crap/GenesisVoiceExamples.mp3
Click here for TurboGrafx voice examples from CrackTiger (I assume from real hardware). (https://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/TurboGrafxVoiceExamples.mp3)
Yeah those were recorded from real actual hardware, but they are only some of the english samples that I could find on HuCards that I actually own(
and I'm no HuCard game expert).
Even though most HuCard games are kept small or moved to CD, there're probably better samples on HuCards. But I don't think that anything would sound better than the best of those Genesis samples.
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/26/2007, 01:56 AMThat's right! Two white guys cannot possibly hate each other, so no special treatment for that victim!
Anyway I think the Genesis voices sound bad because there is only one DAC in the thing. The game had to be able to play back more than one voice at a time, which it often does. Also you have sampled drums and elephant screeches. The sample rate was probably halved if not quartered to accomplish this through a single channel.
If thats the case, they shouldn't have bothered trying to get so many simultaneous sampled sfx going at once. It looks like the PCE version only uses 2 channels for samples, one for voices and one for sfx & instruments and it sounds fine multiple sfx-wise. The arcade doesn't even have more than one voice at once.
Maybe multi-channel samples are a strength the PCE has against the Genesis' seemingly better potential quality for single samples. :-k
It seems that the snes and genesis versions are missing the dude with the guitar in the second set of pics.
Quote from: awack on 07/26/2007, 07:25 PMIt seems that the snes and genesis versions are missing the dude with the guitar in the second set of pics.
Yeah, each port has its own unique inclusions or ommissions. The MD/Gen version seems to have the most of those touches in its bgs.
Some ports are more faithful in color to the arcade in some areas of stages while some are different but look nicer.
I think they just simply spent a lot more time on the PCE version. Think about it, they had to make a 16-bit game work right for a 8-bit system with 16-bit color. Also, it probably helped that the PCE was already being maxed out in those days. It wasn't until 95-96 when the SNES and Genesis did some really amazing stuff with the help of more experience and higher meg counts.
Another missing thing is the girl to the left of the jet intake in Guiles stage. Also, the Vegas girls are bouncy on the PCE but not SNES and even more bouncy on the arcade. I have an eye for that after being a KOF fan for years.
Joe, please PM me some info (and sites) about the "crappy Genesis 2". That's the model I have and I'd like to find out more so I can replace it, if need be.
Quote from: SNKNostalgia on 07/26/2007, 07:35 PMI think they just simply spent a lot more time on the PCE version. Think about it, they had to make a 16-bit game work right for a 8-bit system with 16-bit color. Also, it probably helped that the PCE was already being maxed out in those days. It wasn't until 95-96 when the SNES and Genesis did some really amazing stuff with the help of more experience and higher meg counts.
Another missing thing is the girl to the left of the jet intake in Guiles stage. Also, the Vegas girls are bouncy on the PCE but not SNES and even more bouncy on the arcade. I have an eye for that after being a KOF fan for years.
I actually think that Capcom did a
half-assed job compared to the standard of their SNES ports. Sure it turned out great, but it should've been a lot better.
Around the time that the PCE version was near completion, Capcom showed off its Megadrive version of 'CE which would've been released around the same time. It was
definitely a rushed straight port. The color was awful, its was severly letterboxed, had smaller sprites and real slowdown. It showed that Capcom really
didn't care about its non-Nintendo games.
Luckily, the negative reaction and likely a mathematicion showing them what the Sega market was like
outside of Japan convinced them to go back to the drawing board at the last minute. The huge jump in quality of the 'Special Champion Edition" really impressed me when it finally came out. Especially Guile's stage.
I've been dying to find a rom of some footage of that original Megadrive SFIICE port, but the closest I've ever come is this video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ReTrxUfeFJI) of the second attempt that resembles the final version more. It does seem to have different music than the final version and some FM sfx though.
Capcom never made any other PCE games before or after and it was only a contract job that NEC
hired them to do. Plus, as it was being developed the mags reported how NEC wanted the game out asap, to bask in exclusivity before the other versions got released. Because at that point, the only other home version was SNES WW.
At the
very least they music should've been programmed/performed like some of the better HuCard soundtracks, the black bar behind the HP bars is unnecessary and it wouldn't be hard to do at least
some layered bgs/scrolling. One of the good NEC Ave teams could've done a much better job.
If Capcom had at least made as many games for PCE as Konami did and was publishing them
themselves, I think that the game would be a lot different(
especially if it was a port of the arcade instead of the SNES WW).
I remember my friends that all had Genesis 2 systems with some similar faults and some different. All except 1 of them had a graphical barring effect going vertical across the screen, which is very noticeable in solid BGs. Two of them had not so great sound, especially noticed it when my friend was playing Mortal Kombat 2 once.
'spenoza, go to www.sega-16.com and talk about it on their forums (you can't make a new thread until you have made 10 regular posts, but there are existing threads dealing with Genesis models and as well as audio).
Here are some pics I took from emulators:
(https://web.archive.org/web/20131205185850im_/http://www.joeredifer.com/crap/sf2arcade.png)
ARCADE - 140 colors
(https://web.archive.org/web/20131205185852im_/http://www.joeredifer.com/crap/sf2snes.png)
SNES - 108 colors
(https://web.archive.org/web/20131205185853im_/http://www.joeredifer.com/crap/sf2turbo.png)
NEC TurboGrafx-16 Entertainment Supersystem - 77 colors (slight cropping due to Magic Engine's "DEMO VERSION" bar)
(https://web.archive.org/web/20131205185851im_/http://www.joeredifer.com/crap/sf2genesis.png)
Genesis - 44 colors
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/26/2007, 08:13 PM'spenoza, go to www.sega-16.com and talk about it on their forums (you can't make a new thread until you have made 10 regular posts, but there are existing threads dealing with Genesis models and as well as audio).
Here are some pics I took from emulators:
Those arcade and SNES screenshots are from World Warrior. :wink:
Here are some similar unaltered pics of CE:
Arcade - 148 colors
(https://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/img/sfiia.gif)
SNES - 98 colors
(https://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/img/sfiis.gif)
PC Engine - 75 colors
(https://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/img/sfiip.gif)
Genesis - 44 colors
(https://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/img/sfiig.gif)
I resized the arcade screenshots for the article I'm working on to make it easier to compare bg elements and general colors.
I like the unaltered shots because then you can compare resolutions as well. Also, you should move the characters to the edge of the screen so you can see the missing elephants that no system has the power to do. The only difference in the graphics between my shots and yours (Turbo??) is that the rug is blue instead of orange... same with the drape on the wall.
The Genesis seems to have the least letterboxing.
Quote from: guest on 07/26/2007, 08:10 AMAbout the 68000, according to Wikipedia it's a CISC chip, 16-bit design with many 32-bit registers. Feeding data to 32-bit registers normally requires it be 32-bit data, which should be relatively large if code size is indeed not inconsequential. I know later 680x0 chips were true 32 bit, but the 68000 appears to be something of a bridge or crossover chip, being the first in the series and all. I've always been a little confused by that because the 68030 and on were 32-bit in and out, and early Macintosh code that ran on the 68000-based Macs was 32-bit code and ran fine on the later CPUs. I'm sure, of course, OS support played a role and I doubt the early stuff was written all in assembly, but the "bitness" of the original 68000 has always been a confusing issue.
Watch out for wikipedia, even if it's a great source for info (correct or otherwise). The 68000 is more RISC than CISC - it only has 59 instructions out of a 16bit and/or 32bit opcode build, and paired with the fact that it has an orthogonal instruction set, I don't how one could say it's CISC. CISC instructions are individual/separate from one another (each instruction is it's own opcode). Heh, the 65x02 variants are predecessors to RISC approach, in the fact that the opcode is devised of the instruction bits, address mode bits, and operand like that of RISC - not CISC.
The 68000 is a 16bit CPU with a 16bit data bus. It can process 32bit arithmetic/shift/bitwise operations but the internal ALU is still 16bit. It uses combination of two 16bit ALUs to create a 32bit program counter(addressable memory) and 32bit operations. The 32bit operations are the same as on a 68020, but actually executing on a 32bit ALU ( and less clock cycles for the same instruction regardless of Mhz).
Quote from: Joe RediferClick here for Genesis voice examples recorded from real hardware by me.
Click here for TurboGrafx voice examples from Black Tiger (I assume from real hardware).
Nice examples.
But practicality prevents clear samples(6-7khz range) on the genesis' channel six DAC when DMAing is happening to the VDP (VRAM). This includes the z80 since it will halt if it accesses the bus (and yamaha address range) while the DMA is happening, and resume afterwards. (The genesis is known for this problem)
This is important since the genesis can not access VRAM during active display, so it must do all the transfers as fast as it can during vblank (inactive display) - thus DMA (which halts the main CPU and will halt the z80 if it trys to access the bus). Generally you can get clear samples when there's not much happening on screen (DMA to VRAM per frame not needed or is very short).
The PCE can avoid this problem because it can write to VRAM at anytime during active display. There's no need to DMA to the VRAM only during vblank - halting the CPU in the process (though you can if you wanted too). Both the PCE and the Gens will play samples at frequencies as fast as you can write to the DACs, but *both* have frequency limits for general in game use with the gens being a little more limited.
The 4 PSG channels on the gens is only accessable on the z80 with a direct port to the VDP (yes the video controller handles the PSG sound), but is not halted by the DMA if the z80 does not access the main CPU's bus ( I think samples and code have to be played out of the z80's ram to avoid being halted). I wonder if SF2 used the PSG unit instead for sound samples...
( A nice
PCE sample. Play it on the real hardware or current medanfen. )
Dude, if you are going to keep calling it "the Gens", then I demand you refer to anything PCE as "the Turbs". It's only fair... and logical.
Also, I know of no Genesis game that uses the PSG channels for vocal or digitized effects. The PSG has quite limited sound, and you can listen to them in the SMS port of Street Fighter 2. The voices sound a bit smoother, but more limited in the way of frequency response.
Also, can you make an MP3 out of that link? I have no way to play your sample.
Heh-heh-heh... ok fine, "the turbs". "the Gens" sounds cool IMO. I'll see if I can make an mp3 tonight (if B_T doesn't beat me to it).
(Goes off to listen to some Vapor trail music for hours on end).
Quote from: TurboXray on 07/26/2007, 09:58 PMHeh-heh-heh... ok fine, "the turbs". "the Gens" sounds cool IMO. I'll see if I can make an mp3 tonight (if B_T doesn't beat me to it).
(Goes off to listen to some Vapor trail music for hours on end).
Too late! :P I actually already had a Duo hooked to my PC since I was recording sound roms last night.
I had wanted to include the Mario 64 voice demo back when I made that Turbo voice sample mp3, but at the time none of the computers in the house that work with the flash card were working. Its kinda buggy on real hardware, but here (https://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/lunar_voice_clip.mp3) it is.
The Lunar clip sounds rough on my PC running in Magic Engine, but pretty freaking unbelievable (https://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/lunar_voice_clip.mp3) on real hardware. :D
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/26/2007, 09:53 PMDude, if you are going to keep calling it "the Gens", then I demand you refer to anything PCE as "the Turbs". It's only fair... and logical.
Also, I know of no Genesis game that uses the PSG channels for vocal or digitized effects. The PSG has quite limited sound, and you can listen to them in the SMS port of Street Fighter 2. The voices sound a bit smoother, but more limited in the way of frequency response.
Also, can you make an MP3 out of that link? I have no way to play your sample.
It plays in Magic Engine, but ME on my computer sounds noticibly different than real hardware,
especially PCE sound samples. :|
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/26/2007, 09:04 PMI like the unaltered shots because then you can compare resolutions as well. Also, you should move the characters to the edge of the screen so you can see the missing elephants that no system has the power to do. The only difference in the graphics between my shots and yours (Turbo??) is that the rug is blue instead of orange... same with the drape on the wall.
The Genesis seems to have the least letterboxing.
The Genesis version does indeed have 8 extra pixels of height in its background.
The feature was only going to compare the home consoles to one another. I only tacked on some arcade shots once the project began to grow in size.
The console shots are all at their real actual resolutions. Its hard to judge whats changed from the arcade when looking at a warped image that is meant to be viewed at a different aspect ratio, let alone when its a different ratio than the screenshots its being compared to.
If I end up finishing everything as planned, all the little things like missing elephants will be detailed with more than just full screen grabs. The screenshots I posted were from the seperate backgrounds section. I was only going to use a screenshot from the centre of each stage, since the bgs warp as you scroll across them and it would already be 36 screenshots as-is. I may still try to collage together the full stages as I had wanted to early on, but I've already got too many unfinished projects as it is...
Bonknuts: I finally got the Kabukiden sound rip rom to work on my Duo by flashing it alone to the card. For some reason I had thought that that was the first thing I tried way back when. :oops:
It turns out the drums don't use ADPCM as I had thought, so I don't know if a sound rip that uses ADPCM will run off the card. The one game I know uses ADPCM in its PSG music is Dragon Slayer, but only the sequel's music has been ripped so far(
maybe the ADPCM posed a problem for people trying to rip it?). :(
Quote from: SNKNostalgia on 07/26/2007, 07:35 PMAlso, it probably helped that the PCE was already being maxed out in those days. It wasn't until 95-96 when the SNES and Genesis did some really amazing stuff with the help of more experience and higher meg counts.
that counts the same for the PCE in term of "really amazing stuff" > e.g. Sapphire in '95, which even toped anything on any 16-bitter at that time (Neo Geo exclusive).
That is definitely a nice sound sample! But of course that one sound sample is as big or bigger than all but 1 HuCard in existence. Now do it for the Genesis as well. Should be similar if not a little better. Then do it for the SNES (reverb off, please).
QuoteSapphire in '95, which even toped anything on any 16-bitter at that time
Sapphire is a definite showpiece graphically, but I vigorously disagree with that statement.
QuoteThat is definitely a nice sound sample! But of course that one sound sample is bigger than all but 1 HuCard in existence. Now do it for the Genesis as well. Should be similar if not a little better. Then do it for the SNES (reverb off, please).
Can you turn off the reverb on SNES sound?
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/26/2007, 11:52 PMQuoteSapphire in '95, which even toped anything on any 16-bitter at that time
Sapphire is a definite showpiece graphically, but I vigorously disagree with that statement.
So do I. :) I find many other PCE games much more impressive. Not that Sapphire isn't nice in its own way. :wink:
Quote from: TurboXray on 07/26/2007, 09:34 PM( A nice PCE sample (http://pcedev.fobby.net/junk/pcmplay-lunar.zip). Play it on the real hardware or current medanfen. )
Wow, that's amazing!
Quote from: guest on 07/26/2007, 11:55 PMQuoteThat is definitely a nice sound sample! But of course that one sound sample is bigger than all but 1 HuCard in existence. Now do it for the Genesis as well. Should be similar if not a little better. Then do it for the SNES (reverb off, please).
Can you turn off the reverb on SNES sound?
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/26/2007, 11:52 PMQuoteSapphire in '95, which even toped anything on any 16-bitter at that time
Sapphire is a definite showpiece graphically, but I vigorously disagree with that statement.
So do I. :) I find many other PCE games much more impressive. Not that Sapphire isn't nice in its own way. :wink:
i do not talk about its style etc. that's everyones own desicion what he likes. but technical wise it is the monster and it shows almost anything 2D related possible on a 16-bitter in almost perfection.
if people argue with donkey kong on a SFC/SNES how much the hardware was overused at that time, so I can counter argue that this was happening on the PCE as well, and at that time. the PCE wasn't pushed to its limit in '92 or '93, no.
and that the PCE was pushed over its limit may times isn't a secret at all.
Games like Donkey Kong Country, Sapphire, Blazing Star, etc which use prerendered video as the basis for their graphics never really impress me as much as they impress other people. The only thing the system is doing is showing new frames of animation. Yeah, that's cool, but I am just not a fan of the prerendered look. Granted, there are some exceptions. Yes, Sapphire has some nice multi-layers here and there as well as some cool vertical scaling of the BG. I like that. But I'm pretty sure I've seen the Turbo do better.
Also, regarding Lunar. I never really liked that chick's singing voice. Probably because it's not a very good singing voice and it's the only one Vic ever used as far as I can tell (plus his lyrics often suck). That's not a knock against the quality of the sample, though. Just against the chick.
same here. i do not like sapphire for its pre-render blah, but for its impressive exposure of anything. the argue that a donky kong c. pushes the SFC to its max, isn't a statement by myself, but from a lot of people out there, which is obviously wrong. but in the case of sapphire it really pushes the hardware, and not too little. concerned to the fact it's the same ol' hardware from '87 (cpu usage, calculation etc.)
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/26/2007, 11:52 PMThat is definitely a nice sound sample! But of course that one sound sample is as big or bigger than all but 1 HuCard in existence.
Didn't Tales of Symphonia on Super Famicom use
16 megs for voice, on top of what was
only a 32-meg game?
Once again, the size of published HuCards is irrelevant since the CD format took off early on.
This is another good example of how developers weren't as concerned with pushing the hardware for PCE games as developers were for the 2 sides of the console war.
I think the Atari 2600 peripheral called the Kid Vid, made by Coleco, has the best audio EVAR. You connected a special tape deck to the Atari and at certain points in the game the audio would be played from the tape deck. And because it's analog there are no sampling rate complications! Atari/early 1980's FTW!
Tales of Symphonia was a MASSIVE UNBELIEVABLE 48 MEGS! That's almost bigger than my penis! WOW! MINDBLOWING! You had to have the power company wire 3-phase power feeds into every area of your home just to run such a powerful game. The game had many, many voices plus a song. I don't think any single sample was 16 megs big, though.
PS - I PWN this game.
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/27/2007, 05:39 PMTales of Symphonia was a MASSIVE UNBELIEVABLE 48 MEGS! That's almost bigger than my penis! WOW! MINDBLOWING! You had to have the power company wire 3-phase power feeds into every area of your home just to run such a powerful game. The game had many, many voices plus a song. I don't think any single sample was 16 megs big, though.
PS - I PWN this game.
I don't think that any of ToS's single samples were 41 seconds long either. :wink:
Quote from: guest on 07/27/2007, 05:36 PMI think the Atari 2600 peripheral called the Kid Vid, made by Coleco, has the best audio EVAR. You connected a special tape deck to the Atari and at certain points in the game the audio would be played from the tape deck. And because it's analog there are no sampling rate complications! Atari/early 1980's FTW!
The Intelivoice for Intellivision did some great voice samples. The audio samples were played from the cart. Because it's digital the voices can be played at any time in any order! Mattel/early 80's FTW! :P
The Kid Vid could rewind y'know. It just means you had to wait a few seconds for some tracks to start playing... :(
IntelliVoice is so badass. 8)
Quote from: guestI don't think that any of ToS's single samples were 41 seconds long either. :wink:
The opening song is well over two minutes long, and the vocal part is about 1:05 long.
What Strength! But don't forget there are many guys like you all over the world!
/turbo_sound_collage.mp3
http://www.ysutopia.net/downloads/fs/FS_03_0D91000.wav
http://www.ysutopia.net/downloads/fs/FS_04_0D9A000.wav
http://www.ysutopia.net/downloads/fs/FS_14_0E41000.wav
http://www.ysutopia.net/downloads/fs/FS_16_0E61000.wav
More: https://www.ysutopia.net/downloads/fs/
hehehe. Those Fighting Street samples are hilarious. Now if I could only pull off some moves in that game. ](*,)
But the Gate of Thunder samples are sweet. I love how the voice is so direct.
"Game Over"....now get out
I was just watchin' Soldier Blade on Youtube. I like the voice samples in that game. :) Come to think of it, I really have to get that game. lol. Argh!! So many games to get. hehe
But for voice samples, nothing beats Sinistar. I posted a link in another thread with all the voice samples. :)
Where?
Quote from: ceti alpha on 09/08/2007, 03:00 AMhehehe. Those Fighting Street samples are hilarious. Now if I could only pull off some moves in that game. ](*,)
But the Gate of Thunder samples are sweet. I love how the voice is so direct.
"Game Over"....now get out
I was just watchin' Soldier Blade on Youtube. I like the voice samples in that game. :) Come to think of it, I really have to get that game. lol. Argh!! So many games to get. hehe
But for voice samples, nothing beats Sinistar. I posted a link in another thread with all the voice samples. :)
Sinistar is great.
But, if we limit ourselves to consoles only, I don't think anything can beat Atari 2600 taunting and mocking us:
"Chicken, fight like a robot!"
My friend and I thought that was the koolest thing. And the fact that the game whupped our collective asses made it that much more poignant.
Berzerk.
Sorry Joe, I guess I should have said where I posted that link. It's a pretty big forum, eh... #-o :P I posted the link in "What popular games do you love to hate." But here's the link anyway: http://onastick.net/drew/sinistar/ (http://onastick.net/drew/sinistar/)
Oh Bezerk. How I love and hate thee. ](*,) I would play that game for hours upon hours. haha. My older brother and I had a high score competition. So I would come home from school or where ever and find our little gaming TV left on with his high score flashing in my face. Then I knew I had some Atari 2600 time ahead of me. We eventually took it too far. lol. IT NEVER ENDS!!!!
Quotethat counts the same for the PCE in term of "really amazing stuff" > e.g. Sapphire in '95, which even toped anything on any 16-bitter at that time (Neo Geo exclusive).
Yeah, not really. Yoshi's Island is more impressive from both an artistic, and technical level. Granted the subject matter is different, and the game's can't really be compared. Scrambled Valkyrie is also nicer looking, for the most part. I would even say that Assault Suit Valken, and R-Type III are better looking than Sapphire. Sapphire is rather bland and boring too often. Also, the gameplay is just middle of the road, and the sound is actually kind of average, and in some cases verging on horrible.
Honestly, while Sapphire is impressive in many ways, I also have a "its not *that* great" attitude about it since there are several other PCE shooters I like more, graphically and otherwise, like Star Parodia, and Gate of Thunder.
Quote from: Joe RediferTales of Symphonia was a MASSIVE UNBELIEVABLE 48 MEGS! That's almost bigger than my penis! WOW! MINDBLOWING! You had to have the power company wire 3-phase power feeds into every area of your home just to run such a powerful game. The game had many, many voices plus a song. I don't think any single sample was 16 megs big, though.
PS - I PWN this game.
I think you are talking about Tales of Phantasia. Symphonia is the far-too-long-to-actually-finish Gamecube game, which is like...3 gigs or so.
I was enjoying that thing for the first 30 hours or so, but then I realized I was still on the first disc, and that there was no way I would ever stay interested in it. I wish they'd just make games shorter.
The SNES sound chip rules, but the reason why the SNES version's sound sucks IMO is because they used SHIT samples. The arcade used a Yamaha FM chip, so that's why the music in the Genesis version is dead on, and the Alpha games are all samples but they're GOOD samples. The SNES's crap samples is what makes the music sound shitty. They must have had a generic Casio or something.
They could have just did like what Irem did for SNES Gunforce, take samples from the FM chip and make an FM "emulation", if done right that can sound really good.
And yeah Tales Of Phantasia RULES. I didn't know GC games were 3GB though, I thought GC discs were 1GB.
Quote from: esteban on 09/08/2007, 08:20 AMQuote from: ceti alpha on 09/08/2007, 03:00 AMhehehe. Those Fighting Street samples are hilarious. Now if I could only pull off some moves in that game. ](*,)
But the Gate of Thunder samples are sweet. I love how the voice is so direct.
"Game Over"....now get out
I was just watchin' Soldier Blade on Youtube. I like the voice samples in that game. :) Come to think of it, I really have to get that game. lol. Argh!! So many games to get. hehe
But for voice samples, nothing beats Sinistar. I posted a link in another thread with all the voice samples. :)
Sinistar is great.
But, if we limit ourselves to consoles only, I don't think anything can beat Atari 2600 taunting and mocking us:
"Chicken, fight like a robot!"
My friend and I thought that was the koolest thing. And the fact that the game whupped our collective asses made it that much more poignant.
Berzerk.
Hahaha, that sounds awesome! Reminds me of Blazing Star for Neo Geo when the game displays text that says "Hey poor player!".
QuoteThe arcade used a Yamaha FM chip, so that's why the music in the Genesis version is dead on..
Not quite. Genesis version doesn't sound the same as the arcade to me. Different YM FM synths generate and have different sounds/effects/instruments, so they sound different from each other if not of the same family of ICs.
Each disc can go up to 1.5 gigs. So put two discs together and you got 3 gigs. It is funny how the GC uses exactly the same physical technology as DVD-Rom. The only difference is a key bar code protection and the 8cm made it load considerably faster than full sized DVDs. It avoid licensing fees with DVD and helped the system cost less also. This way they could put most of the money into the specs and quality of the system. It was a perfect move on Nintendo's part except for the kiddy games and then the MA-17 great games came out almost too late.
QuoteAnd yeah Tales Of Phantasia RULES. I didn't know GC games were 3GB though, I thought GC discs were 1GB.
I think they are about 1.5. This is a 2 disc game though.
Quote from: TurboXray on 09/08/2007, 04:40 PMQuoteThe arcade used a Yamaha FM chip, so that's why the music in the Genesis version is dead on..
Not quite. Genesis version doesn't sound the same as the arcade to me. Different YM FM synths generate and have different sounds/effects/instruments, so they sound different from each other if not of the same family of ICs.
Yeah, the Genesis version is quite a bit different if you actually listen to the two versions at the same time. The title screen music in particular, is way off in the Genesis version. Its not just the types of sounds used for instruments, some of 'performances' are different.
But its not like something is by default the best just because it came first. All three ports have nice soundtracks within unique strengths.
I have always thought that the genesis sound in general usually reminds me of a wet fart. I don't think anyone can really tout sound as one of the genny's strong suits, in my opinion.
in generally, i like the harm brass trumpet touched sound of the MD. especially in games like hell fire (remember the dock-off sound) or Thunder force III.
QuoteI don't think anyone can really tout sound as one of the genny's strong suits, in my opin
Actually lots of people can, and do! It's all subjective. I prefer the sound capabilities of the MD and PC Engine far more over the SNES. Yes, the SNES has a great sound chip and does voices really well. But I like that the Genesis/MD and PC Engine still sound like, well, videogames! Oh, and the reverb on most SNES games is a huge turn-off.
There are lots of Genesis tunes that seem to feature the kazoo, though. Contra Hard Corpse is one of many such games (listen to level one, the lead instrument is a kazoo).
Contra the HC is just a great example concerned rockin' MD BGMs.
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 09/09/2007, 03:01 AMQuoteI don't think anyone can really tout sound as one of the genny's strong suits, in my opin
Actually lots of people can, and do! It's all subjective. I prefer the sound capabilities of the MD and PC Engine far more over the SNES. Yes, the SNES has a great sound chip and does voices really well. But I like that the Genesis/MD and PC Engine still sound like, well, videogames! Oh, and the reverb on most SNES games is a huge turn-off.
Thats exactly how I think of it. MD & PCE generated music sounds like video game music. The SNES, while still nice in its own way, is stuck somewhere inbetween video game music and 'real music', but isn't close enough to either for my tastes.
I can't think of any console that generates its own music whose sound I don't appreciate. Whats cool about the Genesis sound, like most early consoles, is that its unique. Playing games on different 'retro' systems wouldn't be as much fun if they all looked and sounded the same.
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 09/09/2007, 03:01 AMQuoteI don't think anyone can really tout sound as one of the genny's strong suits, in my opin
Actually lots of people can, and do! It's all subjective. I prefer the sound capabilities of the MD and PC Engine far more over the SNES. Yes, the SNES has a great sound chip and does voices really well. But I like that the Genesis/MD and PC Engine still sound like, well, videogames! Oh, and the reverb on most SNES games is a huge turn-off.
There are lots of Genesis tunes that seem to feature the kazoo, though. Contra Hard Corpse is one of many such games (listen to level one, the lead instrument is a kazoo).
Yeah, the reverb go so annoying real quick. When playing a SNES game, there's always that nagging in the back of your brain saying , "why the fuck didn't the include an option to turn off reverb!". In some games it was OK, but since it was so over used it still sucked in those games.
I like the Yamaha chip the Genesis used. Some games try to push it beyond its limits and you get harsh/scratchy sounding music. Most of the game music I like are from the early-to-mid generation genesis games that had clear sounding instruments. Also, Genesis had the best sounding bass guitar.
Quote from: guest on 09/09/2007, 03:29 PM. Whats cool about the Genesis sound, like most early consoles, is that its unique. Playing games on different 'retro' systems wouldn't be as much fun if they all looked and sounded the same.
ohh, how true is that!!?
C64, MSX, MD, PCE, SMS, SMS-FM, FC, GB...all of those "analog" generated chip-tunez on all those different systems rul0rez in its own way.
Hah hah hah! Joe! You're right. Only Contra HC sounds like an electric kazoo, which is clearly a superior kazoo specially designed for rock concerts.
My Genesis just sounds, in general, like ass. I think I have one of the cheapest Gen models ever made.
In Japan, with the different PCE variations, were there minor sound quality or video encoding quality differences like were so prevalent across Genesis models?
PCE/TG-16|CD/SGX Discussion => Topic started by: SNKNostalgia on 07/25/2007, 01:50 AM