PCEngine-FX.com

Trying to gauge the general consensus from the userbase.

I think I already know the answer, this has been brought up plenty of times in the past. But it'd be nice to have everyone's thoughts in one place.

Please vote even if you're just a casual reader of the forums, your opinion counts.

I abstain from voting, as I don't really care.  I'm a 'show unread posts' type of person, so I rarely even notice which thread I'm in.

No, the PCE and TG16 are two separate entities with different game libraries and should be treated as such.  However the VC game list threads should be stickied in both the PCE and TG16 forums, and the VC forum removed.


Seriously, if you separate it, you'll have to deal with a lot of "Is this PCE or TG16?" posts...

Hell yes.

Quote from: Kitsunexus on 02/25/2008, 01:09 PMHowever the VC game list threads should be stickied in both the PCE and TG16 forums, and the VC forum removed.

Why's that then?  Do you think that there should be a completely separate VC area, or what? This isn't a Wii forum, so I personally don't see the need of a VC section for listing and commenting on every VC release.

Quote from: guest on 02/25/2008, 01:33 PMWhy's that then?  Do you think that there should be a completely separate VC area, or what? This isn't a Wii forum, so I personally don't see the need of a VC section for listing and commenting on every VC release.

No... the VC Turbo games should have a sticky thread in the Turbo threads, and anything that is NOT Turbo VC should be discussed in Console Chat.

The Turbo and PC-E sections should be kept seperate.  It would be an ugly mess to see them merged.

  For what it's worth, I think the two sections should remain separate. 

  Aside from discussions about differences between games released on both formats,  it seems to me that most posts are specific to only one
  system.

  It's probably also less confusing this way for someone who isn't familiar with both systems.

Hmm, so far things aren't as clear-cut as I thought.

I vote keep em seperate (at least the sales areas for sure).

Quote from: Kitsunexus on 02/25/2008, 01:36 PMNo... the VC Turbo games should have a sticky thread in the Turbo threads, and anything that is NOT Turbo VC should be discussed in Console Chat.

Understood, but I don't like the idea of mixing Turbo VC discussions into the PCE and TG-16 areas.

I want to also say that I think the type of people who frequent one of these two areas might not frequent the other area nearly as much because it does not interest them.  To be honest the Turbo area does little for me since my focus is on PC-E collection (well after my first priority FX collection) and I usually post, reply and read the PC-E area the most. 

Since I am not an expert at the PC-E yet it would further be confusing for me to have to understand what is PC-E relevant info and what is not.  I am sure it would be more confusing to other "new" users as well.

Here are the changes I'd like to see:

1 - The TurboGrafx and PC Engine would be combined into one forum.  It is redundant otherwise.  They are the same system, just regionally different.  I think we should give members the benefit of the doubt in that they can determine the difference between the PCE and the Turbo.  The PC-FX would still have it's own forum since it is a separate console.

2 - All sales forums would be merged into one sales forum.  This makes it easier for buyers and sellers because then they don't have to check 3 specific forums, which is a pain.  Buyers often buy on impulse and this would make perusing items for sale much easier.  Descriptive thread titles would make sure that nothing is confused (US with Japanese games, etc).

3 - The Virtual Console forum would disappear, as it is unnecessary.  The thread with the current list of Turbo/PCE Virtual Console games could be stickied to the top of the general Turbo/PCE forum and modified as changes are made to the list.  All other Virtual Console discussion can be done in either the regular Turbo/PCE forum or the Console Chat forum, depending on the games discussed.

4 - The Console/Mobile Game Development forum should disappear since there isn't anything in there that wouldn't fit in either the standard Turbo/PCE forum or the Console Chat forum.

The forum listing would look something like this:

THE PC ENGINE FX WORLD
 -Pcenignefx.com - The NEC Console Resource Site
 -The Pcengnefx Network - Your Worldwide Connection to NEC Console Info
 
NEC VIDEOGAME CONSOLES
 -TurboGrafx-16, TurboDuo, PC-Engine and SuperGrafx Discussion
 -PC-FX Discussion
 -NEC Console Repair/Mod Discussion
 -High Scores
 -Sales & Trades
 
HOMEBREW DEVELOPMENT
 -Turbo/PCE Development
 -PC Game Development
   
OTHER DISCUSSION
 -Chit-Chat
 -Console Chat

Make the PCE/Supergrafx forum just "Supergrafx" and the Turbo forum "Turbo/PCE"


That would make the most sense to me...

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/25/2008, 03:48 PMHere are the changes I'd like to see:
*snip*
2 - All sales forums would be merged into one sales forum.  This makes it easier for buyers and sellers because then they don't have to check 3 specific forums, which is a pain.  Buyers often buy on impulse and this would make perusing items for sale much easier.  Descriptive thread titles would make sure that nothing is confused (US with Japanese games, etc).
*snip*

You and I have nearly exactly opposite ideas.  Mixing the two sales threads would be a nightmare to me, they are the two above all else which I think should remain seperate.  If all the accessories and games and consoles were out of the box compatable, I might agree with you.  But since they are not I think it avoids a lot of confusion.

I think the seller should assume at least some responsibility for describing the item correctly.  Perhaps you missed that "descriptive thread title" part of my post.

Instead of having threads like:

"OMG controlelrz lol!!!"

we'd have:

"PC Engine controllers (Also works on Duo)"

or

"TurboGrafx-16 controllers"

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/25/2008, 04:01 PMI think the seller should assume at least some responsibility for describing the item correctly.  Perhaps you missed that "descriptive thread title" part of my post.

Instead of having threads like:

"OMG controlelrz lol!!!"

we'd have:

"PC Engine controllers (Also works on Duo)"

or

"TurboGrafx-16 controllers"

I didn't miss it, it's just confusing because some items like a "Duo Tap" will work on a PC-E.  And this is further complicated by not every seller being clear in their title, even if you want them to be clear about it.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/25/2008, 04:01 PM"PC Engine controllers (Also works on Duo)"

Will these controllers work on a TurboDuo?

You've proved Missa's point nicely.

*edit* - What does this have to do with TG-16/TurboExpress/TurboDuo systems and games?  :twisted:

Absolutely do not merge. The main forums are not broken, do not fix them.

if you're going to change anything, the Turbo VC forum is too specific; hence the lack of activity. It should be expanded to cover all virtual console releases.

I agree with Joe 90%, although I think the VC forum should stay. Like another user pointed out, I don't want VC-specific threads mixed in with the rest of the stuff.

Quote from: guyjin on 02/25/2008, 04:24 PMif you're going to change anything, the Turbo VC forum is too specific; hence the lack of activity. It should be expanded to cover all virtual console releases.

Why? This is a TurboGrafx forum, not a Wii or any other console forum.

Quote from: nat on 02/25/2008, 04:25 PMI agree with Joe 90%, although I think the VC forum should stay. Like another user pointed out, I don't want VC-specific threads mixed in with the rest of the stuff.

(snip)

QuoteWhy? This is a TurboGrafx forum, not a Wii or any other console forum.

:? do you read your own posts?!

Absolutely not. I am SO sick to death of people getting the two confused...keeping them separated like this helps educate people.

Quote from: guyjin on 02/25/2008, 04:41 PM

Quote from: nat on 02/25/2008, 04:25 PMI agree with Joe 90%, although I think the VC forum should stay. Like another user pointed out, I don't want VC-specific threads mixed in with the rest of the stuff.

(snip)

QuoteWhy? This is a TurboGrafx forum, not a Wii or any other console forum.

:? do you read your own posts?!

I didn't think I needed to spell it out--

Yes, the VC forum should stay for TG-16 related VC threads. The whole reason the VC section is there is for TG-16/TG-CD games on the VC. That aspect of the VC is important to the community in that it brings new blood into the fold that hadn't previously experienced the console before. There are issues specific to playing the games on the VC as opposed to the real hardware (video filtering, emulation quality, etc).

The Genesis, SNES, NES, N64, etc areas on the VC don't have anything to do with the Turbo and thus there is no reason for them to be discussed in the Turbo VC forum. Do we talk about the Genesis and NES in the PCE forum? Of course not. Do we have forum sections for the SNES and Neo Geo? Of course not.

but if you allow discussion of all VC releases in one forum, there will should be no discussion of the VC outside of that forum, which you said was a problem.

Oh, I was referring exclusively to Turbo-related VC posts when I made that comment. If you removed the VC area altogether, you'd get lots of Turbo VC questions and whatnot in the "regular" Turbo area. Plus the weekly "Thiz stuf is t00 blurry" thread.

I'm not worried about a few SMS or NeoGeo VC related threads in the "Console Chat" area, that's fine by me. That's what it's there for.

Quote from: guestWill these controllers work on a TurboDuo?

Of course they would.  All Duos are the same in that regard which is why I used the term "Duo" generically.  A TurboTap only works with the turbo.  It's really not that difficult to figure out.

Seriously, think about it.  What if someone wants to discuss Splatterhouse?  Does he post in the Turbo section or the PCE section?  Does it really matter?  NO!  Splatterhouse is Splatterhouse.  It wasn't ported from the PCE to the Turbo, it's the same damn game.  If you want to mention any differences, then it would just be easy to explain that you prefer the Japanese version due to the naked Jesus portrayed in stage 4.  It seems a lot of elitists want to separate themselves from anything TurboGrafx.  The comment about the SuperGrafx replacing the PC Engine section I could agree with since it has it's own independent library of games.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/25/2008, 05:01 PMOf course they would.  All Duos are the same in that regard which is why I used the term "Duo" generically.  A TurboTap only works with the turbo.  It's really not that difficult to figure out.

No shit, chief.  My point was that even you weren't being specific enough for people that are new to the hardware to clearly understand; and if you want proof that not everyone knows that only the TG-16 had oddball ports, then take a gander at the semi-weekly posts asking if (insert Japanese controller here) will work with US hardware.  If we're to depend on accurate thread titles, then you mods are going to have your hands full; and not full of booby, as I'm sure you'd prefer.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/25/2008, 05:01 PMIt seems a lot of elitists want to separate themselves from anything TurboGrafx.

Then those peeps are bat shit crazy.  US is always superior to Japan - just ask Hiroshima and Nagasaki (damn, I'm classy).

Yeah, Joe is right. Anyone who tells themself the PCE and Turbo aren't the same thing are deluding themselves (and others). It is the exact same hardware with a couple of pins swapped in the cartridge port.

That said, I'm surprised the poll is as even as it is. I thought it would be a landslide one way in favor of merging, since this has been brought up before.

The results of the poll seem to be bouncing back and forth.  I know a lot of people don't like/fear change in something they're used to.  Some people probably wouldn't like it if (hypothetically) we merged separate forums for Coregrafx and Shuttle and PC Engine into one PC Engine forum.

Quote from: guestif you want proof that not everyone knows that only the TG-16 had oddball ports, then take a gander at the semi-weekly posts asking if (insert Japanese controller here) will work with US hardware.

Exactly my point.  It seems that separate forums aren't doing anything to help that situation now.  And I wouldn't ever edit anyone's sale post title.  If they aren't competent enough to list the item descriptively enough and the buyer cannot ask questions, then they deserve any misfortune that comes as a result.  I predict very little trouble.  A seller should be happy to answer any questions posed in his sale thread.  If not, then the seller is a dick and does not deserve to sell anything.

Also, should there be a "Best Bonk" thread in the Turbo section and a "Best PC Genjin" in the PCE section?  That's just, well, redundant.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/25/2008, 05:29 PMExactly my point.  It seems that separate forums aren't doing anything to help that situation now.  And I wouldn't ever edit anyone's sale post title.  If they aren't competent enough to list the item descriptively enough and the buyer cannot ask questions, then they deserve any misfortune that comes as a result.  I predict very little trouble.  A seller should be happy to answer any questions posed in his sale thread.  If not, then the seller is a dick and does not deserve to sell anything.

Huh?  Right now the forums being seperated is doing a LOT to help the situation, at least for me.  It's the very fact that they are seperate that helps keep things from getting confusing.  If we re-make the forums into something that it takes an expert about the PC-E/TG to understand easly, it will only add to the confusion of at least half the userbase.

I guess we probably should cater to the lowest common denominator.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/25/2008, 05:36 PMI guess we probably should cater to the lowest common denominator.

Every community if it hopes to have new members and to continue to exist over time needs to take consideration for the newbies or they risk becomming an exclusive island which is daunting for anyone to consider exploring.

OK, let me throw this out there:

What changes to the forum format would you like to see, if any?

This is a general question directed at everyone.  Yes, I realize that's what the suggestions forum is for, but since we're discussing it now...

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/25/2008, 05:53 PMOK, let me throw this out there:

What changes to the forum format would you like to see, if any?

This is a general question directed at everyone.  Yes, I realize that's what the suggestions forum is for, but since we're discussing it now...

The top area of the board to go back to the less confusing way it was before it all got merged.

No other changes.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/25/2008, 05:53 PMWhat changes to the forum format would you like to see, if any?

The format that you listed is fine by me, other than two minor quibbles.  First, I'd like to see a generic For Sale/Trade area, rather than one specific to NEC consoles; second, there should be a VC area, rather than mixing 'em into the console thread.

Quote from: MissaThe top area of the board to go back to the less confusing way it was before it all got merged.

Could you refresh me?  Do you mean before the chat was added?

I think she means before Aaron streamlined these Suggestions and Comments areas into child boards. That was done after the chat was added, actually.

I think it's much slicker now.

I want to say that I am not a big fan of child boards (although I am not opposed to them for this particular section).  But having a forum with child boards kind of makes it harder to navigate.  Imagine having an NEC Console Forum, then each NEC system as a child board, and then sales sections as child boards of them.  Yikes!

I'd be opposed to that kind of treatment for the "meat" of the forum, I agree. But it works well for this area IMO.

PCE and Turbo need to stay divided. Much easier this way.
Not to mention anyone new here needs to learn the difference between the 2.

I could go on a long rant about crap that everyone here already knows, but I will leave it at that.

edit: forgot to mention i voted a big fat NO.

Id have to say no on this idea. Even though the internal hardware is the same,the difference between the 2 regions libraries are far different enough in quantity and quality to warrant 2 separate areas for discussions,because of domestication of US releases and because of the sheer amount of over all releases the Japanese side got.

 Keeping the sales separate is important because you will always have that small margin that has no clue about buying or playing imports.. They don't need the extra headache or confusion if they are just jumping in for the first time,and only want to focus on TG stuff.

 Also keeping it separate is especially important for people like me who only interest themselves with either the US or Japanese side of things and not both. I don't pay as much attention to the TG discussions as I do the Pc Engine ones by choice and having the areas separate helps me locate and focus on the threads I want to post in.
What isn't broke doesn't need to be fixed.

Wow. I'm truly surprised that even a single person wants the TG-16 and PCE stuff separate. I mean...WTF.

They are the SAME THING. Seriously, if this were a 16-bit Nintendo site would you want the Super Famicom and and Super NES stuff separate? Is the Mega Drive a different machine than a Genesis? If it were a Playstation site would you want the Playstation stuff separate from the...other Playstation stuff?

How about systems like GBA, or Neo Geo which don't even have region lock?

Who are these theoretical retards you are trying to protect from "confusion"? What confusion? How fucking stupid are people? If anything you are confusing people by separating the different regions and claiming they are different systems when they aren't. Also, this sort of shit is probably a partial contributor to the insane price of US releases.

There are only two NEC systems. All the PCE stuff (yes, including the SGX, it says PC Engine right on the front for fuck's sake) and the PC FX. If this forum had its base in a country where NEC never released either system, I have a feeling we wouldn't even be discussing this. I'd also point out that back in the day on the Turbo Mailing list, when the PCE was actually still being supported, we never made this useless distinction.

Virtual console is sort of an odd ball since the forum, at least as I see it, was originally designed to discuss what the Wii would and would not do before it even came out. It was really significant at the time, but now it sort of seems pointless. If I play Super Star Solider on VC, or PCE (or TG-16 for that matter) its the same game and it seems the topic would generate the most conversation in a forum with the most exposure; the PCE/TG-16 forum. If the topic is blurry graphics or shitty Wiimote functionally, then I guess that would make more sense in a VC forum.

About controllers. All controllers for NEC 8-bit systems, whether they be the original pad, the one with the turbos, the grey ones, the white ones, the six button ones, the City Boy, the Hori Commander, the Sigma stick or the pachinko controller work with all NEC 8-bit systems meaning the PC Engine, Core Grafx, Core Grafx II, LT, Shuttle, Super Grafx, US and JP Duos, Duo R, and Duo RX with %100 universal compatibility...

...except the actual US and EU TG-16 (not the US Duo), which has its own jumbo sized plug, and therefore jumbo plug equipped controllers and multitaps. If that confuses the shit out of people then maybe we can put it in a sticky FAQ...or maybe those people should go buy a Pico because if something like that confuses them then system cards are going to blow their puny little brain to pieces...

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 02/25/2008, 11:16 PMWow. I'm truly surprised that even a single person wants the TG-16 and PCE stuff separate. I mean...WTF.

They are the SAME THING. Seriously, if this were a 16-bit Nintendo site would you want the Super Famicom and and Super NES stuff separate? Is the Mega Drive a different machine than a Genesis? If it were a Playstation site would you want the Playstation stuff separate from the...other Playstation stuff?

How about systems like GBA, or Neo Geo which don't even have region lock?

Who are these theoretical retards you are trying to protect from "confusion"? What confusion? How fucking stupid are people? If anything you are confusing people by separating the different regions and claiming they are different systems when they aren't. Also, this sort of shit is probably a partial contributor to the insane price of US releases.

There are only two NEC systems. All the PCE stuff (yes, including the SGX, it says PC Engine right on the front for fuck's sake) and the PC FX. If this forum had its base in a country where NEC never released either system, I have a feeling we wouldn't even be discussing this. I'd also point out that back in the day on the Turbo Mailing list, when the PCE was actually still being supported, we never made this useless distinction.

=D>

Couldn't have said it better myself.

but where would Keranu be able to chant "USA! USA! USA!" if we merged the forums?  :P

I agree they should be combined.
If you drink Pepsi in US and then drink pepsi in Japan in some different funky looking can- are you still drinking Pepsi?  You tell me.  Same thing.

As for the sales threads- its not as if the sales threads already don't list items for every other system right after the pce/turbo stuff is listed in the first couple lines- so why bother separating pce from turbo?  It will just be more taxing for people wanting to list what they're selling.  Of course there's single item specific sale threads going on here too- but the subject matter will usually say something like FOR SALE USED TURBOEXPRESS- not that complicated to figure out that that's an american turbografx handheld and not a GT.   :-"

Quote from: Sinistron on 02/25/2008, 11:48 PMI agree they should be combined.
If you drink Pepsi in US and then drink pepsi in Japan in some different funky looking can- are you still drinking Pepsi?  You tell me.  Same thing.

actually, no. They change the cola formulas from country to country, to suit cultural tastes.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 02/25/2008, 11:16 PMSeriously, if this were a 16-bit Nintendo site would you want the Super Famicom and and Super NES stuff separate? Is the Mega Drive a different machine than a Genesis? If it were a Playstation site would you want the Playstation stuff separate from the...other Playstation stuff?

Yes to all, I'm anal about that shit.

Quote from: PCEngineHellAlso keeping it separate is especially important for people like me who only interest themselves with either the US or Japanese side of things and not both. I don't pay as much attention to the TG discussions as I do the Pc Engine ones

This is exactly what I'm getting at.  Many games appeared in both regions.  What if I want to talk about Splatterhouse and I posted it in the Turbo forum instead of the PCE one?  You'd likely miss the chance to add some Mike Helgeson-ness to the thread and contribute to the discussion.  Where do I post my thread so it gets the most exposure?  If you say the PCE forum, then it all comes down to everybody posting everything in just the PCE forum just to get the most exposure for their threads.  Region is irrelevant to the discussion of most games.

As for the sales forums, I usually don't visit them, but I don't think it would be that big of a problem.  We're not eBay.  People who come to this place have to know at least something about the system in order to find the site.

I voted NO, I find the forum easier to navigate with the current separation program.

Quote from: Kitsunexus on 02/25/2008, 01:09 PMSeriously, if you separate it, you'll have to deal with a lot of "Is this PCE or TG16?" posts...

Quote from: OldRover on 02/25/2008, 04:44 PMAbsolutely not. I am SO sick to death of people getting the two confused...keeping them separated like this helps educate people.

These are the reasons I think that they shouldn't be merged.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/25/2008, 03:48 PMHere are the changes I'd like to see:
2 - All sales forums would be merged into one sales forum.  This makes it easier for buyers and sellers because then they don't have to check 3 specific forums, which is a pain.  Buyers often buy on impulse and this would make perusing items for sale much easier.  Descriptive thread titles would make sure that nothing is confused (US with Japanese games, etc).

I disagree with this because people either want to buy US or Jap. It would be a hassle to find what you wanted specifically.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/25/2008, 05:36 PMI guess we probably should cater to the lowest common denominator.

Forums are meant to be helpful for everyone, not just easy to use for us learned.



I guess all in all, the forum is the way it is and has been for a reason.

And another thing, why the fuck was this even suggested? Did it REALLY bug people that much? No matter how this little poll turns out, it's still Aaron's site, and I HIGHLY doubt he is going to rework the forum because of a simple little poll. And if it stays the way it is, I doubt any of you are going to leave, and if you DO get your way you all are going to bitch and bellyache when the revision brings in several little glitches.

Seriously, this is the most pointless thread ever on PCEFX, and wouldn't you know it, I DIDN'T EVEN START IT!
It's almost as pointless as nat wanting to play Rail Chase and then not even touching it.

Calm down there, little guy.

QuoteYes to all, I'm anal about that shit.

Its kind of fucked up, IMO, to hear about proper topic segrigation and shit from someone who, AFAIK, has never even touched a piece of NEC game hardware, rarely even talks about the software under emulation for that matter, and makes most of their posts about PSP stuff and bad game music.

I should point out though that unless I'm actually starting a new topic I never even go to the various sections. It requires far to much use of the Back button. I just use the "Show unread posts since last visit." link every time I visit.

I brought this issue up in the past and decided I didn't give a shit, but since someone just asked my opinion I though I'd give it.

Nat's the last person who needs anyone to speak for him- but Kitsu if you would've stopped screaming to Nat PLAY RAILCHASE NAT PLAY RAILCHASE maybe you would've heard him talking about how rough the last couple of days have been for him.  He's got more on his mind than Railchase.

think about it from a newbie's perspective.  When I joined a couple months ago I was completely clueless and only read the topics in the Turbo Grafx page.  Eventually I had more of an interest / understanding of how the two systems relate to one another and read more of the PCE stuff.  It can be quite confusing at first.

so before you go and make any changes,  consider wether you are doing it for the comfort of the old foggies who have been here for years,  or the new people joining the forum every week.

Quote from: Sinistron on 02/26/2008, 08:56 AMmaybe you would've heard him talking about how rough the last couple of days have been for him. 

you mean Tailspin??   :D

Quote from: MurderDate on 02/26/2008, 08:56 AMthink about it from a newbie's perspective.  When I joined a couple months ago I was completely clueless and only read the topics in the Turbo Grafx page.  Eventually I had more of an interest / understanding of how the two systems relate to one another and read more of the PCE stuff.  It can be quite confusing at first.

so before you go and make any changes,  consider wether you are doing it for the comfort of the old foggies who have been here for years,  or the new people joining the forum every week.

As one of those fogies I can tell you that 15 years ago when the Turbo Mailing List was one intigrated discussion mostly dominated by PCE discussion (since PCE games were still being released) people asked the same exact questions then as they do now in this fragmented forum. This is because NEC consoles are confusing, period. Telling people with a TG-16 that they have a different system than a guy with a PCE isn't going to make things better or worse, its just stupid and untrue.

Seriously, its just games. It isn't that hard. I mean, just getting a PS3 up and runnnig fulling registerd with an HD signal and a PS store account is way more comlex that this stuff. Quit insulting the intelligence of noobs. They'll figure it out sooner than most of us fogies ever did. They can just go to the Wiki or something.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/26/2008, 01:51 AMThis is exactly what I'm getting at.  Many games appeared in both regions.  What if I want to talk about Splatterhouse and I posted it in the Turbo forum instead of the PCE one?  You'd likely miss the chance to add some Mike Helgeson-ness to the thread and contribute to the discussion.  Where do I post my thread so it gets the most exposure?  If you say the PCE forum, then it all comes down to everybody posting everything in just the PCE forum just to get the most exposure for their threads.  Region is irrelevant to the discussion of most games.

I agree that region is insignificant to most games; there's a tiny few where there's a pretty big difference between the two, but not enough to warrant separate discussions.  Maybe there could be daughter-threads under the general TG-16/PCE/SGX area just for the two region's hardware.  Maybe not.

Quote from: Kitsunexus on 02/26/2008, 02:00 AMSeriously, this is the most pointless thread ever on PCEFX, and wouldn't you know it, I DIDN'T EVEN START IT!

Four pages of responses beg to differ.  The title was accurate, so if you don't care, then why'd you even enter the discussion?  :-s

Quote from: MurderDate on 02/26/2008, 09:14 AMyou mean Tailspin??   :D

Oh, yeah!  :lol:

I'm pretty surprised to see the segregation of opinion regarding reworking the forum layout. In the past years when it's been brought up casually things were much more black and white. I guess the advantage we have now is a larger more diverse userbase.

Viewing the results as they are at this moment, I wouldn't expect anything to change imminently.

Quote from: Kitsunexus on 02/26/2008, 02:00 AMAnd another thing, why the fuck was this even suggested? Did it REALLY bug people that much? No matter how this little poll turns out, it's still Aaron's site, and I HIGHLY doubt he is going to rework the forum because of a simple little poll. And if it stays the way it is, I doubt any of you are going to leave, and if you DO get your way you all are going to bitch and bellyache when the revision brings in several little glitches.

Seriously, this is the most pointless thread ever on PCEFX, and wouldn't you know it, I DIDN'T EVEN START IT!

[-X  This poll was posted on behalf of the administration. 

Aaron is watching and reading all the comments here, they are all valid points. What he ultimately does with that information will be his own decision, but we thought it'd be nice to have everyone's opinion all in one place to take into considering for any potential changes. You've made your view clear already so there's really no further need for you to post in this thread unless you have something constructive to offer.  :)

I would just leave it as is..

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/26/2008, 01:51 AMWhat if I want to talk about Splatterhouse and I posted it in the Turbo forum instead of the PCE one?  You'd likely miss the chance to add some Mike Helgeson-ness to the thread and contribute to the discussion. 

Ill try to get back on that particular subject soon. I still need to beat my own high score....

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 02/26/2008, 08:48 AM

QuoteYes to all, I'm anal about that shit.

Its kind of fucked up, IMO, to hear about proper topic segrigation and shit from someone who, AFAIK, has never even touched a piece of NEC game hardware

You mentioned SNES/Super Famicom, that's what I was talking about.



And besides, places like DP consider the PCE and TG16 seperate, so wouldn't merging them not be accurate in a sense?

I have know idea who "DP" are, but if they consider the TG-16 a different system than a PC Engine they are wrong. Period. They run the exact same code on the same processors. The CDs are universal, the HuCards require a minor hack. All the chips and ram and other ICs are the same. They are made by the same company and came from the same factory.

A US Gamecube and a JP Gamecube are the same. A PCE and a TG-16 are the same.

The only difference was the marketing.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 02/26/2008, 01:19 PMI have know idea who "DP" are

Digital Press...in the guide I have, the software lirbaries are listed seperately.

What makes them any kind of authority on the matter?  Answer: Nothing.

Still, nobody has been able to answer my question:

Where do I post my thread so it gets the most exposure?  If you say the PCE forum, then it all comes down to everybody posting everything in just the PCE forum just to get the most exposure for their threads.

...which leads to the elimination of the Turbo forum.  :D

you're preaching to the choir here, but it seems like the majority has spoken. They like things the way they are.

I notice a lot of PCE-related threads in the Turbo forum right now, like "10 Favorite CD games".  Should they only be allowed to list US games?  Should we ban anyone who lists a Japanese game?  Should we move it to the PCE section?   What if someone puts Bonk 3 in their list once it is moved, or the US version of ANY game for that matter?  Ban?

The fact of the matter is, there really are already two PCE forums, one of which occasionally gets a smattering of Turbo talk.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/26/2008, 02:29 PMI notice a lot of PCE-related threads in the Turbo forum right now, like "10 Favorite CD games".  Should they only be allowed to list US games?  Should we ban anyone who lists a Japanese game?  Should we move it to the PCE section?   What if someone puts Bonk 3 in their list once it is moved, or the US version of ANY game for that matter?  Ban?

The fact of the matter is, there really are already two PCE forums, one of which occasionally gets a smattering of Turbo talk.

We could ask people in a new post clarifying the purpose of the different areas to try to keep their posts as on "topic" as they can.  Obviously if you are talking about the differences between a JPN and a USA release it could be started in either section as long as you post it in the section which fits best.  For example if I wanted to know the differences between Galaga '88 and Galaga '90 I would ask in the PC-E area.  But if I asked for the differences between Galage '90 and Galaga '88 I would ask in the Turbo area.  If this is too confusing for your world, we could always add an area to the bottom section called "NEC Cross Talk" or something which would be specifically a section to ask any questions or carry any discussions involving multiple regions of NEC consoles or even different versions like the differences between a Super Grafx and a PC-FX (of which there are many in terms of compatability, but you never know what a new NEC fan might need to know).

However I think things are fine atm, no need to fix what isn't broken.  Unless you have to keep your budget up for next year :wink:

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/26/2008, 02:29 PMI notice a lot of PCE-related threads in the Turbo forum right now, like "10 Favorite CD games".  Should they only be allowed to list US games?  Should we ban anyone who lists a Japanese game?  Should we move it to the PCE section?   What if someone puts Bonk 3 in their list once it is moved, or the US version of ANY game for that matter?  Ban?

The fact of the matter is, there really are already two PCE forums, one of which occasionally gets a smattering of Turbo talk.

Beat dead horses much?  I don't care one way or the other, but like nat said, the masses have spoken; if you (the mods) don't care about opinions contrary to your own, then this thread shouldn't have been made.

Oh, who declared this thread finished?  Why is it a dead horse?  We only have 27 members here?  I'd just like my questions answered by someone who likes the separation.  It seems like we lose either way, IMO.

OK, since there's too much heated arguing going on:


Is there any way that we could do a trial run of the forum revision for like a week, one that could be easily reverted if we didn't like it? That way if things didn't work out, no harm no foul, just revert it. If it's a success, well then congrats!

I'm pretty sure phpBB can do that, but can SMF do that?

That's not a bad idea, but I'm not sure how much work would be involved with that. That's Aaron territory. I don't know if he would be keen to doing a trial or not. It might be more trouble than it's worth. I remember in the past when he was trying to tweak things it was a real pain for him.

Still, not a bad idea.

MANNN You clannish mother fuckers for segregating- it's straight up RACISM!!!  :P

I agree with nat that it might be too much trouble, especially if things need to be reverted back.  Merging forums is pretty easy, but separating them back again?  Man.  You'd have to go in and mark each individual thread that moves and then mass-move them.  Or you might even have to move them one by one.  Oh man!  I like the idea, but don't know if SMF would make that easy.

Quote from: Kitsunexus on 02/26/2008, 03:13 PMOK, since there's too much heated arguing going on:


Is there any way that we could do a trial run of the forum revision for like a week, one that could be easily reverted if we didn't like it? That way if things didn't work out, no harm no foul, just revert it. If it's a success, well then congrats!

I'm pretty sure phpBB can do that, but can SMF do that?

It is really messy to revert a forum as far as I know without loosing a lot of posts, because everything will be mixxed up.  I am against even trying it unless we somehow had 2 different versions of the board available during that week.  So far more people are against this change than for it and I don't think the board should ever make changes unless a clear majority of the regular number of people who post here votes one way. Any poll like this even 50%/50% or 60/40 should not be a passing resolution because it shows that the proposed solution is not the most acceptable one.  Any acceptable change I feel would have a 75% or higher percent of the people for it.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/26/2008, 03:08 PMOh, who declared this thread finished?  Why is it a dead horse?  We only have 27 members here?  I'd just like my questions answered by someone who likes the separation.  It seems like we lose either way, IMO.

Five different posts from the same person stating the same idea is beating a dead horse.

Maybe because nobody can provide answers?  Only Missa even attempted it, but her idea was to create a 3rd forum.

Beating a dead horse would be about issues already resolved and in the past.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/26/2008, 03:48 PMMaybe because nobody can provide answers?  Only Missa even attempted it, but her idea was to create a 3rd forum.

Beating a dead horse would be about issues already resolved and in the past.

I don't know if we are on the same page with a 3rd forum, unless you mean a new area to these forums.  I am glad though than you understand I am arguing with you, rather than at you or against you Joe. :D

Yeah, the "Cross talk" idea would have to be a 3rd forum.  It couldn't be anything else.

I feel more like you're arguing your case rather than simply arguing with me, and that's totally cool so no worries.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/26/2008, 04:03 PMYeah, the "Cross talk" idea would have to be a 3rd forum.  It couldn't be anything else.

I feel more like you're arguing your case rather than simply arguing with me, and that's totally cool so no worries.

Yeah, that too.  But since people are talking about the arguments being heated, I am just making sure it isn't people reading what we are saying and taking it as something that it isn't.  By arguing with you I mean that I am involved in a discussion in which you and I seem to be in nearly polar opposite camps.

Quote from: guest on 02/26/2008, 03:04 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/26/2008, 02:29 PMI notice a lot of PCE-related threads in the Turbo forum right now, like "10 Favorite CD games".  Should they only be allowed to list US games?  Should we ban anyone who lists a Japanese game?  Should we move it to the PCE section?   What if someone puts Bonk 3 in their list once it is moved, or the US version of ANY game for that matter?  Ban?

The fact of the matter is, there really are already two PCE forums, one of which occasionally gets a smattering of Turbo talk.

Beat dead horses much?  I don't care one way or the other, but like nat said, the masses have spoken; if you (the mods) don't care about opinions contrary to your own, then this thread shouldn't have been made.

Yea I am kinda going,huh? Our opinion was asked if we would be for or against the change,but those against it,the majority,seem to be taking flak and Joe especially is expecting everyone to defend their opinion in  a almost attack dog manner.

We were asked to vote,we did so,should be left at that. Its kinda crude to attack us or our reasoning by demanding we make up reasons you find acceptable,for simply stating we like things the way they are.

True, reasoning be damned.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/26/2008, 01:51 AM

Quote from: PCEngineHellAlso keeping it separate is especially important for people like me who only interest themselves with either the US or Japanese side of things and not both. I don't pay as much attention to the TG discussions as I do the Pc Engine ones

This is exactly what I'm getting at.  Many games appeared in both regions.  What if I want to talk about Splatterhouse and I posted it in the Turbo forum instead of the PCE one?  You'd likely miss the chance to add some Mike Helgeson-ness to the thread and contribute to the discussion.  Where do I post my thread so it gets the most exposure?  If you say the PCE forum, then it all comes down to everybody posting everything in just the PCE forum just to get the most exposure for their threads.  Region is irrelevant to the discussion of most games.

As for the sales forums, I usually don't visit them, but I don't think it would be that big of a problem.  We're not eBay.  People who come to this place have to know at least something about the system in order to find the site.

Joe, if you're really concerned about exposure, post the thread in both forums...

But you are pointing out a weakness of separated boards... for someone who wants to discuss something relevant to both the American TurboGrafx 16 and the Japanese PC-Engine...

I have an idea... why not leave the board as is, and add another forum category for mixed TurboGrafx  PC-Engine discussion if it really floats your boat.

Personally, I like the idea of having the boards separate for emotional reasons. I like the fact that it's a bit quirky and a bit of a pain... but so is the system. Just about everywhere else on the internet, TurboGrafx and PC-Engine are thrown together in one forum... here they are separate, and I kinda get a kick out of it.

As a compromise, you could always have a combined discussion area for TurboGrafx-16 and PC-Engine, but separate sale threads for TurboGrafx and PC-Engine sales.

As things are, I voted no, because I really enjoy this website as it is.

I hope this isn't part of some master plan to get a Sega Genesis area added....  :-k

Dammit you've discovered my master plan!  Foiled again!  I will have the dedicated Genesis section someday and it will be ON TOP of the PCE forums (which will require at least 100 posts in the Genesis forum to enter)!

Quote from: rag-time4Personally, I like the idea of having the boards separate for emotional reasons.

This rules.

Anyway I'd never cross post the same thread.  I'd just hope enough people wander into both forums to see it and create a worthwhile discussion.  I don't think another forum would be worthwhile.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/26/2008, 09:24 PMDammit you've discovered my master plan!  Foiled again!  I will have the dedicated Genesis section someday and it will be ON TOP of the PCE forums (which will require at least 100 posts in the Genesis forum to enter)!

Quote from: rag-time4Personally, I like the idea of having the boards separate for emotional reasons.

This rules.

Anyway I'd never cross post the same thread.  I'd just hope enough people wander into both forums to see it and create a worthwhile discussion.  I don't think another forum would be worthwhile.

I cross posted a sale thread once because I was selling stuff for both the Turbo and the PCE. Keranu decided to lock one of them.

If there was only one sale thread I wouldn't have had that problem...

But at the same time if there is only one sale forum then people with specific interest in either US Turbo or PCE won't have easy access to the games of their choice...

speaking of exposure, here's a reason to keep 'em separated:

when I go away for a day, there are usually a screen full of threads with new activity in both the pce and turbo forums. if they were combined, the amount of threads with new activity would likely be much higher in that forum, and some of them would get pushed off the front page. and threads that get occasional, but not daily, activity (like, say, the SFIV thread) might dissapear altogether.

I think the fewer boards, the better. For general conversation, we should have ONE TG-16/PCE water kooler. If folks desire, they can label their posts as (PCE only!) or something like that. This strikes me as the best solution.

No, I didn't take the time to re-read everything in this thread :)

Guyjin, I understand what you are saying, but why would there ever be a SFIV thread in the PCE or Turbo section (assuming, of course, that by SFIV you mean Street Fighter IV )?    8)

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/26/2008, 10:22 PMGuyjin, I understand what you are saying, but why would there ever be a SFIV thread in the PCE or Turbo section (assuming, of course, that by SFIV you mean Street Fighter IV )?    8)

Because Street Fighter IV is coming out on PCE ACD!  :dance:

but srsly, it was the first thread of that kind that i could think of.

Quote from: Missa on 02/26/2008, 03:55 PMI am glad though than you understand I am arguing with you, rather than at you or against you Joe. :D 

OMG MISSA IS KIRBY! AAAAAAAHHHHHH! :P

Quote from: Kitsunexus on 02/26/2008, 11:57 PM

Quote from: Missa on 02/26/2008, 03:55 PMI am glad though than you understand I am arguing with you, rather than at you or against you Joe. :D 

OMG MISSA IS KIRBY! AAAAAAAHHHHHH! :P

Huh??

Quote from: Missa on 02/27/2008, 12:38 AM

Quote from: Kitsunexus on 02/26/2008, 11:57 PM

Quote from: Missa on 02/26/2008, 03:55 PMI am glad though than you understand I am arguing with you, rather than at you or against you Joe. :D 

OMG MISSA IS KIRBY! AAAAAAAHHHHHH! :P

Huh??

Your sentences had proper diction and affection for the moderators.

Quote from: Kitsunexus on 02/27/2008, 01:24 AM

Quote from: Missa on 02/27/2008, 12:38 AM

Quote from: Kitsunexus on 02/26/2008, 11:57 PM

Quote from: Missa on 02/26/2008, 03:55 PMI am glad though than you understand I am arguing with you, rather than at you or against you Joe. :D 

OMG MISSA IS KIRBY! AAAAAAAHHHHHH! :P

Huh??

Your sentences had proper diction and affection for the moderators.

I assure you it's a phase, not a lifestyle choice.

Quote from: Missa on 02/27/2008, 01:42 AM

Quote from: Kitsunexus on 02/27/2008, 01:24 AM

Quote from: Missa on 02/27/2008, 12:38 AM

Quote from: Kitsunexus on 02/26/2008, 11:57 PM

Quote from: Missa on 02/26/2008, 03:55 PMI am glad though than you understand I am arguing with you, rather than at you or against you Joe. :D 

OMG MISSA IS KIRBY! AAAAAAAHHHHHH! :P

Huh??

Your sentences had proper diction and affection for the moderators.

I assure you it's a phase, not a lifestyle choice.

l0l u ha|) m3 \/\/0rRi3d

I want to thank everyone who has chimed in about their forum preferences.  Changes will be happening, however I can't say at the moment what they will be.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/25/2008, 03:48 PMThe forum listing would look something like this:

THE PC ENGINE FX WORLD
 -Pcenignefx.com - The NEC Console Resource Site
 -The Pcengnefx Network - Your Worldwide Connection to NEC Console Info
 
NEC VIDEOGAME CONSOLES
 -TurboGrafx-16, TurboDuo, PC-Engine and SuperGrafx Discussion
 -PC-FX Discussion
 -NEC Console Repair/Mod Discussion
 -High Scores
 -Sales & Trades
 
HOMEBREW DEVELOPMENT
 -Turbo/PCE Development
 -PC Game Development
   
OTHER DISCUSSION
 -Chit-Chat
 -Console Chat

This pretty much exactly how I would do it.

Quote from: Pcenginefx on 02/27/2008, 01:00 PMI want to thank everyone who has chimed in about their forum preferences.  Changes will be happening, however I can't say at the moment what they will be.

Wait, so failwin or winfail? 0_o

In your case it would be winfail.  In mine it would be failwin.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 03/04/2008, 11:20 PMIn your case it would be winfail.  In mine it would be failwin.

Well I was on your side (no changes).

I was all for changes!

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 03/04/2008, 11:38 PMI was all for changes!

OH. ok.

I bet you'll vote for Hillary.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 03/04/2008, 11:48 PMI bet you'll vote for Hillary. 

I don't R0X0R T3H \/0T3, sorry. :(

meh, you democrats are screwed, lol.

Ron Paul will win!

QuoteRon Paul will win!

I don't know why, but his name reminds me of a wrestler's name.

Anyway, I find the site pretty easy to get around, but a little condensing couldn't hurt. I like Joe's idea above. My two cents would be to make some of the repair threads in the "TG/PCE/PC-FX/Duo" forums (especially if they get merged into one forum) into stickies. Specifically the threads where the cause and solution to the problem is laid out, i.e. D-lite's Duo audio issue fix thread. Just makes it easier for people who have the problem find out how to solve it.

Um...is it shameful that I only just noticed this thread?

Quote from: guest on 01/16/2009, 06:28 PMUm...is it shameful that I only just noticed this thread?

Uhm...yes... :P  :wink:

Quote from: ceti alpha on 01/17/2009, 02:07 AM

Quote from: guest on 01/16/2009, 06:28 PMUm...is it shameful that I only just noticed this thread?

Uhm...yes... :P  :wink:

To be fair, I'd just started my massive site overhaul when this was first posted so was a bit busy :)

More important is: which way did you vote? Wait, don't tell me. I already know.

Next time, let's not revive a thread so old ;)