Glad that bastard got it finally however i'm sure some one will replace him.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110502/ap_on_re_us/us_bin_laden
(http://i51.tinypic.com/15p3nme.jpg)
Can I have my rights back now?
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 05/02/2011, 02:01 AMCan I have my rights back now?
Pre 911 hmm i don't know not !! :roll:
Wait, so people still believe that theory about Islamic extremists conspiring to bring down the WTC towers?
Awesome clip, tr0n.
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 05/02/2011, 02:01 AMCan I have my rights back now?
Stand up and fight, Joe.
Quote from: guestWait, so people still believe that theory about Islamic extremists conspiring to bring down the WTC towers?
Just the ones who don't own any tin foil hats.
(https://i.imgur.com/KDssc.jpg)
(http://www.20min.ch/dyim/885add/B.M600,1000/images/content/2/5/7/25714863/4/topelement.jpg)
Leave it up to Fox to fuck it up. :)
Well I believe that theory and I'm glad they killed that bastard on he spot
. Thing is though, now its their move.
I now once again feel a little
More unsafe when I get off the subway at times square on my way to work. So even when he's dead he's still terrOrizing. He changed my world for gooD. And like 911 he won't be forgotten.
he didn't do'h teh 911.
I wish Bonk had gotten him instead...
I've personally stated thoughts on Facebook, but I can share here as well.
Of course something needed to get done. Justice, I hope, was served. For what he did, he deserved probably more pain... but this at least puts him away for good. I now worry about what will be done in retaliation by this terrorist group. No doubt someone will rise up and take his place. I fear this may only get worse. I also don't understand the celebrating of someones death. Seeing the video and pictures of people singing and dancing with signs that say "He's finally DEAD!" and "OSAMA is in Hell", only reminds me of the Palestinians singing and dancing in their streets when the Twin towers were destroyed... just makes no sense. Gang Warfare. They kill our guy, they party. We kill their guy, we party. When does this end?
One thing I did feel good about, was the Philly's/ Mets game on Sunday Night Baseball on ESPN. When word started spreading through the stands of the news of Osama's Death, the announcers and the teams just paused for a moment and 50,000 plus people just started chanting USA USA for a sold 10 minutes! It was a really great moment that I choose to stick into my memory banks for the rest of my life.
Yeah I don't agree w celebrating his death either. We didn't win anything we just upset a bee hive. All we did was close a chapter and got revenge. Its their turn now
I doubt Osama ever made plans. More of a figure head, a face for the world to see.
The real terrorist leaders don't show their faces.
Finally I can go outside!
Rejoicing over someone's death is perverse, in this case even from a perspective of pure math. "The war on terror" has killed 500 times as many arabs as the Trade Center attacks killed Americans. Hell, more Americans have died (from road side bombs, friendly fire, suicide, etc) in the attempt to carry out this revenge killing than were killed in the Trade Center. You have to have a really fucked up sense of justice to think that makes any sense.
Quote from: guest on 05/02/2011, 05:19 AMWait, so people still believe that theory about Islamic extremists conspiring to bring down the WTC towers?
I hope that's a joke.
People that think it's inappropriate for American's to be celebrating this bastards death can go fuck themselves.
This is absolutely good news and it should be celebrated.
then I guess I'm fucking myself. We dance the night away in celebration of this. Then later something terrible happens on US soil, and they dance the night away!
Woo, Street gang warfare mentality FTW!
Quote from: Senshi on 05/02/2011, 11:50 AMQuote from: guest on 05/02/2011, 05:19 AMWait, so people still believe that theory about Islamic extremists conspiring to bring down the WTC towers?
I hope that's a joke.
I dont think it's a joke really, because the WTCs never were brought down by the planes only.
Quote from: Raizen1984 on 05/02/2011, 12:04 PMPeople that think it's inappropriate for American's to be celebrating this bastards death can go fuck themselves.
This is absolutely good news and it should be celebrated.
So why aren't you celebrating on the streets right now?
Because I have a job. :) Believe me, I was celebrating last night when I heard the news.
It's not a street gang warfare mentality. It's being happy that an evil man who has killed many innocent Americans is now dead.
I can't believe I even need to explain this. Would you have said the same thing when Hitler died if you were around then?
Ha ha ha that bomb theory is crap!! Its siumply impossible for that not toi be detected. How could they have all those bombs go off in sequence with over a hundred stories in both buildings with people in those buildings 24 hours a day having to run tens of thousands of feet of wire connecting to each bomb plus some of the boimbs would of had to of been visibly mounted to columns. Give me a fuckin break. And who placed the bombs??
Most of those floors are completely open I've done commercial audio video in both towers
Quote from: Raizen1984 on 05/02/2011, 12:04 PMThis is absolutely good news and it should be celebrated.
Why? He was but one twat among many; his death will change absolutely nothing.
Granted. I am still happy he is dead, and I find no fault in other people feeling the same way.
Quote from: Raizen1984 on 05/02/2011, 12:31 PMI can't believe I even need to explain this. Would you have said the same thing when Hitler died if you were around then?
I can see the death of Bin Laden as being Symbolic, but its true, they will just pop another leader in and continue their business. Comparing the death of Hitler and Nazi's to the death of Bin Laden and Al Qaeda isn't quite accurate. When Hitler died, we had nearly the entire Nazi army in our possession. This is one member of a terrorist group that we have NO idea where the rest are, or how many their could be.
Quote from: Senshi on 05/02/2011, 11:50 AMQuote from: VestCunt on 05/02/2011, 05:19 AMWait, so people still believe that theory about Islamic extremists conspiring to bring down the WTC towers?
I hope that's a joke.
Just a reminder that the official story is also a conspiracy theory.
Yeah and these same lame fuckin assholes will say bin laden is still alive even though they did a dna test. You can say the sky is blue and they would say its not. Grow the fuck up.
Hga ha yeah its a conspiracy theory that santa claus is real. Ye yea its true!!! Santa is real ut jesus got jealous cause santa was taking up the limelight so jesus banished him to the south pole for life cause santa was a bad boy!!!!!! - find these theorys disrespetful to this country and to the people trhat dies and gave their lives. What happen and what they cvlaim is solidf proof. Wherte is there solid evidence in these theories? That's wehy they are theories
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 05/02/2011, 10:52 AMRejoicing over someone's death is perverse,
I suppose you're sad that Hitler is also dead?
Bottom line: we spent ten years and billions of dollars for this 'win'. Bravo.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/overwhelming_hostility/Random%20crap/GIFS/obama-dealwithit.gif)
Quote from: guest on 05/02/2011, 03:29 PMBottom line: we spent ten years and billions of dollars for this 'win'. Bravo.
Maybe if we'd had Obama in office from the get-go instead of Bush it wouldn't have taken so long.
<ducks>
I am going on vacation this weekend, and now there is a "terror alert" for flights. Although the odds of something happening are pretty slim, I don't like that this "victory" now has to put me on edge when I go on vacation.
The only good thing was a temporary drop in metal prices, so I could scoop up some more. Hyperinflation, here we come.
Quote from: turbogrfxfanYeah and these same [swell folks] will say bin laden is still alive
Yup. And that Obama's birth certificate is still fake. That Elvis is still alive... same with Saddam. And that we didn't land on the moon. Everything is a conspiracy, NOTHING is the truth. I have a friend like that and he is very entertaining to listen to.
Quote from: Opethian on 05/02/2011, 07:01 AM(https://i.imgur.com/KDssc.jpg)
And again... For effect.
(http://i51.tinypic.com/15p3nme.jpg)
Quote from: turbogrfxfan on 05/02/2011, 03:06 PMYeah and these same lame fuckin assholes will say bin laden is still alive even though they did a dna test. You can say the sky is blue and they would say its not. Grow the fuck up.
They would also say that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, so we need to go in an kill him and all his children,at great cost to Iraqi civilians and it could turn out to be nothing but a lie.
Quote from: Raizen1984 on 05/02/2011, 12:31 PMBecause I have a job. :) Believe me, I was celebrating last night when I heard the news.
It's not a street gang warfare mentality. It's being happy that an evil man who has killed many innocent Americans is now dead.
I can't believe I even need to explain this. Would you have said the same thing when Hitler died if you were around then?
Hitler was defeated, at the cost of 50 million dead (https://youtu.be/XUBYI97cUgU). Was it really necessary to firebomb civilian targets in Germany and Japan, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people living under dictatorships? Was it necessary to drop atomic bombs on two Japanese cities, again killing hundreds of thousands?
Means to an end you may say, but I'm sure Hitler would say the same, so in the end what's the difference?
Quote from: rag-time4 on 05/03/2011, 12:49 AMQuote from: turbogrfxfan on 05/02/2011, 03:06 PMYeah and these same lame fuckin assholes will say bin laden is still alive even though they did a dna test. You can say the sky is blue and they would say its not. Grow the fuck up.
They would also say that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, so we need to go in an kill him and all his children,at great cost to Iraqi civilians and it could turn out to be nothing but a lie.
Quote from: Raizen1984 on 05/02/2011, 12:31 PMBecause I have a job. :) Believe me, I was celebrating last night when I heard the news.
It's not a street gang warfare mentality. It's being happy that an evil man who has killed many innocent Americans is now dead.
I can't believe I even need to explain this. Would you have said the same thing when Hitler died if you were around then?
Hitler was defeated, at the cost of 50 million dead (https://youtu.be/XUBYI97cUgU). Was it really necessary to firebomb civilian targets in Germany and Japan, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people living under dictatorships? Was it necessary to drop atomic bombs on two Japanese cities, again killing hundreds of thousands?
Means to an end you may say, but I'm sure Hitler would say the same, so in the end what's the difference?
Let's not forget our "ally" Stalin that was responsible for more deaths than Hitler ;)
Have you ever read about both the civilian, and soldier death estimates of a mainland Japan invasion? While the atomic bombs can be debated forever, a direct invasion would have been catastrophic on a MUCH higher bodycount. War has def changed in the last 60+ years...many things done in the past are no longer "acceptable/necessary."
Quote from: turbogrfxfan on 05/02/2011, 03:06 PMYeah and these same lame fuckin assholes will say bin laden is still alive even though they did a dna test. You can say the sky is blue and they would say its not. Grow the fuck up.
We have some different opinions and different views. No big deal. It's good to talk about these things. I'm not un-patriotic and you're not brainwashed. We both have logical reasons for believing what we do. We all care about our troops. We all like the Turbografx.
9/11 theories are hard to debate because they touch on our core beliefs about the integrity of our entire country.
Here's a little personal story that contributed to my current beliefs. I like this one because it doesn't rely on statistics or the veracity of particular media sources:
My grandpa flew a B17 bomber over Germany in WWII. On their maps was the location of a Ford automobile plant. Everyone was certain that it had been retooled to manufacture German tanks, tanks that were killing our troops. However, because Ford was a U.S.-based corporation, my grandpa and all of the other pilots were told to stay well away from that Ford plant.
The end.
Take what you want from this story. For me, this story alone doesn't make me certain of anything, but it's one indication that there are private interests in our country who don't give two shits about me, you, or our troops, and that they've been able to exercise considerable influence for at least the last seventy years.
Rather would've seen him captured alive. I think the end result that way would've been better than satiating vengeance mentality. That said, if he wasn't willing to surrender right away, I see no foul in sending him a bullet.
Either way, I hope this brings some sense of closure to the families of 9/11 victims.
Quote from: rag-time4 on 05/03/2011, 12:49 AMWas it really necessary to firebomb civilian targets in Germany and Japan, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people living under dictatorships?
Innocent how? In both cases, the women/children/elderly were the ones producing weapons and ammo and they'd attack allied troops when given half a chance.
It went down like this:
(https://i.imgur.com/j3GIu.jpg)
Quote from: blueraven on 05/03/2011, 12:00 AMQuote from: Opethian on 05/02/2011, 07:01 AM(https://i.imgur.com/KDssc.jpg)
And again... For effect.
(http://i51.tinypic.com/15p3nme.jpg)
wow. Great pictures!!!!!!!! :)
In the future war should be played with a TG and Military Madness.
Quote from: RagtimeWas it necessary to drop atomic bombs on two Japanese cities, again killing hundreds of thousands?
It's easy to sit back and ask questions like that these days when hindsight is 20/20. But the fact of the matter is that the Japanese were warned of our atomic bomb. After we dropped the first one, their pride would not allow them to surrender even though we told them to or face another a-bomb dropping. After the 2nd, they finally gave in.
Yes, war is bad and I am not saying how great it is that people die. But people do die in wars, lots of them. It's what people do (go to war). I'm at the point where I almost think it is kind of natural for man to war to keep the population in check. Of course, I'm pulling that out of my ass, but we've gone to war ever since we were able to do so and I don't think it's a switch that can just be turned off cold turkey.
Look at teh drama that happens on this and many forums. When a conflict occurs, it attracts a lot of people and "dealing" with said conflict you are involved in can be very hard to resist.
Very good point
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 05/03/2011, 05:45 PMQuote from: RagtimeWas it necessary to drop atomic bombs on two Japanese cities, again killing hundreds of thousands?
It's easy to sit back and ask questions like that these days when hindsight is 20/20. But the fact of the matter is that the Japanese were warned of our atomic bomb. After we dropped the first one, their pride would not allow them to surrender even though we told them to or face another a-bomb dropping. After the 2nd, they finally gave in.
Yes, war is bad and I am not saying how great it is that people die. But people do die in wars, lots of them. It's what people do (go to war). I'm at the point where I almost think it is kind of natural for man to war to keep the population in check. Of course, I'm pulling that out of my ass, but we've gone to war ever since we were able to do so and I don't think it's a switch that can just be turned off cold turkey.
Look at teh drama that happens on this and many forums. When a conflict occurs, it attracts a lot of people and "dealing" with said conflict you are involved in can be very hard to resist.
I appreciate your comments on war, but the one thing I will retort with is this: I disagree with your lumping all of 'the Japanese' together rhetorically. The other fact of the matter is that the Japanese government at that time was a dictatorship, and the civilians targeted by the U.S. atomic bombs (and the U.S. firebombings) had nothing to do with the dicision making process.
Quote from: nectarsis on 05/03/2011, 12:56 AMQuote from: rag-time4 on 05/03/2011, 12:49 AMQuote from: turbogrfxfan on 05/02/2011, 03:06 PMYeah and these same lame fuckin assholes will say bin laden is still alive even though they did a dna test. You can say the sky is blue and they would say its not. Grow the fuck up.
They would also say that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, so we need to go in an kill him and all his children,at great cost to Iraqi civilians and it could turn out to be nothing but a lie.
Quote from: Raizen1984 on 05/02/2011, 12:31 PMBecause I have a job. :) Believe me, I was celebrating last night when I heard the news.
It's not a street gang warfare mentality. It's being happy that an evil man who has killed many innocent Americans is now dead.
I can't believe I even need to explain this. Would you have said the same thing when Hitler died if you were around then?
Hitler was defeated, at the cost of 50 million dead (https://youtu.be/XUBYI97cUgU). Was it really necessary to firebomb civilian targets in Germany and Japan, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people living under dictatorships? Was it necessary to drop atomic bombs on two Japanese cities, again killing hundreds of thousands?
Means to an end you may say, but I'm sure Hitler would say the same, so in the end what's the difference?
Let's not forget our "ally" Stalin that was responsible for more deaths than Hitler ;)
Have you ever read about both the civilian, and soldier death estimates of a mainland Japan invasion? While the atomic bombs can be debated forever, a direct invasion would have been catastrophic on a MUCH higher bodycount. War has def changed in the last 60+ years...many things done in the past are no longer "acceptable/necessary."
To be honest Nec, no, I don't think I have ever read anything on death estimates of a mainland Japan invasion. I can, however, tell you that in the upper division U.S. history course I took on the period, an entire lecture and discussion day was dedicated to the debate about the atomic bombing, so I'm well aware of the argument.
Have you ever read anything on the Hague conventions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Conventions_(1899_and_1907)), which were international treaties governing the laws of war through World War II, which were used as the legal basis for the war crimes trials of captured Nazi leaders? In 1963, a Japanese court ruled (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryuichi_Shimoda_et_al._v._The_State) that the atomic bombings in Japan were violations of international law at the time they took place.
My point with all of this is that vilifying people like Hitler and Osama Bin Laden while at the same time giving war profiteers based in the U.S. and her allies a free pass is extremely hypocritical. I think that celebrating the death of Osama Bin Laden, when it's common knowledge that he was actually propped up by U.S. support in the first place, is unwise at best, because it reflects a lack of wisdom concerning the real movers and shakers that are behind military actions around the world.
The left-leaning regime in Afghanistan that Osama Bin Laden was so violently opposed to seemed like it was doing some very positive things, particularly with regards to the role of women in society, education, etc. None of that matters, however, because they were going to give the Soviet Union more access to their strategic territory and natural resources, leaving our big mega corporations out of the loop. Therefore, supporting Osama Bin Laden was in line with "U.S. strategic interests," which to me, is merely propaganda speak for "The interests of the rich and mega-rich in the U.S."
Quote from: termis on 05/03/2011, 09:10 AMRather would've seen him captured alive. I think the end result that way would've been better than satiating vengeance mentality. That said, if he wasn't willing to surrender right away, I see no foul in sending him a bullet.
Either way, I hope this brings some sense of closure to the families of 9/11 victims.
The Nazis killed millions of people, yet when possible, their leaders were captured and put on trial. I think a trial of Osama Bin Laden would have been very productive, particularly because it may have led to more transparency with regard to 9/11. I think that if in fact Osama Bin Laden was guilty of masterminding 9/11, and convicted, it would be beneficial to the U.S.' image abroad.
Well I heard Bin Ladle was reaching for his gat, so they capped him.
Its a thugs life, niggas.
Quote from: guest on 05/08/2011, 04:46 PMWell I heard Bin Ladle was reaching for his gat, so they capped him.
Its a thugs life, niggas.
That was what President Obama said at first, but new reports are saying that Osama Bin Laden was unarmed (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/osama-bin-laden-resisted-assault-but-was-unarmed-us-officials-say/2011/05/03/AFpKmdhF_story.html)
Denis Leary tweeted it best:
"Michael Moore thinks we should have captured Bin Laden. Yeah - like he was a fucking butterfly."
Anyway, it may be easy for you to armchair quarterback this one,Ragtime, but you weren't there.
Quote from: rag-time4 on 05/08/2011, 04:51 PMQuote from: Psycho Arkhan on 05/08/2011, 04:46 PMWell I heard Bin Ladle was reaching for his gat, so they capped him.
Its a thugs life, niggas.
That was what President Obama said at first, but new reports are saying that Osama Bin Laden was unarmed (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/osama-bin-laden-resisted-assault-but-was-unarmed-us-officials-say/2011/05/03/AFpKmdhF_story.html)
its stupidity like that that gets you shanked when you aren't looking, or blown up.
Hes some kind of terrorist dickhead. Assume hes armed. I dont care if hes reaching for a frigging breath mint. He could have it laced with explosives. The tic-tac box could be wired to torch the place.
If the guy didn't see troops rolling in and immediately throw his arms up and then lay face down on the dirt, he was probably asking to get blasted. I wouldn't take any chances seeing if the shmuck is going to comply.
Quote from: rag-time4 on 05/08/2011, 04:37 PMIn 1963, a Japanese court ruled (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryuichi_Shimoda_et_al._v._The_State) that the atomic bombings in Japan were violations of international law at the time they took place.
LOL I'm sorry this made me LMAO. REALLY...you're going to use a JAPANESE court case as "proof"? The country that to this day warps history they teach, and denies/downplays most of the atrocities, etc. THEY committed in WWII. Even now (and even more so in 1963) there is NO way they would EVER rule in any way that it was legal/"they had it coming", etc.
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 05/08/2011, 04:51 PMDenis Leary tweeted it best:
"Michael Moore thinks we should have captured Bin Laden. Yeah - like he was a fucking butterfly."
Anyway, it may be easy for you to armchair quarterback this one,Ragtime, but you weren't there.
I don't think it's fair to say that I'm armchair quarterbacking. I'm not all up in arms about it, but I do feel that it's right to be critical about whether or not they did the right thing. I do think that capturing him and putting him on trial would have been a superior outcome.
Quote from: nectarsis on 05/08/2011, 05:15 PMQuote from: rag-time4 on 05/08/2011, 04:37 PMIn 1963, a Japanese court ruled (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryuichi_Shimoda_et_al._v._The_State) that the atomic bombings in Japan were violations of international law at the time they took place.
LOL I'm sorry this made me LMAO. REALLY...you're going to use a JAPANESE court case as "proof"? The country that to this day warps history they teach, and denies/downplays most of the atrocities, etc. THEY committed in WWII. Even now (and even more so in 1963) there is NO way they would EVER rule in any way that it was legal/"they had it coming", etc.
Nec, if you're advancing the argument that Japanese courts are inferior to U.S. courts, I disagree with you. Furthermore, based on my understanding of the Hague conventions, I agree with the ruling of the Japanese court on the matter of the legality of the atomic bombing of civilians. I would take it a step further and add that the firebombings were also violations of international law.
I agree with you though when it comes to the presentation of history in Japan. However, I would point out that right-wing elements in our own society are trying to eliminate diversity in our own presentation of history. The same as in Japan, where study of Japan's true history is not universally encouraged, the argument is advanced that ethnic studies in the U.S. "promotes resentment" (http://articles.cnn.com/2010-05-13/living/in.america.conversation.ethnic.studies_1_ethnic-studies-resentment-schools?_s=PM:LIVING) towards white people. So while you're right that Japan has her own issues with teaching history, so does the U.S.
By the way, I graduated from UC Davis with a minor in African-American studies, and overall it was my favorite part of my time there.
My stance on the whole thing:
Whatever.
One tyrant down, seventy million still remain... including most of the leaders of the "free world". And by leaders, I don't mean figureheads, I mean the ones actually making the decisions and giving the orders... these are almost never actual public figures.
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 05/08/2011, 04:51 PMDenis Leary tweeted it best:
"Michael Moore thinks we should have captured Bin Laden. Yeah - like he was a fucking butterfly."
Yeah, human rights are a hassle. Fuck 'em.
QuoteAnyway, it may be easy for you to armchair quarterback this one,Ragtime, but you weren't there.
Neither were you; don't pretend your argument is more valid just because you're siding with the prevailing belief (or at least the loudest one in mainstream U.S. media, everyone I've talked to in Belgium and Germany this week is shocked that we simply shot him in the head). Discussion and analysis of conflicting news sources is a good thing.
Quote from: rag-time4 on 05/08/2011, 04:51 PMQuote from: Psycho Arkhan on 05/08/2011, 04:46 PMWell I heard Bin Ladle was reaching for his gat, so they capped him.
Its a thugs life, niggas.
That was what President Obama said at first, but new reports are saying that Osama Bin Laden was unarmed (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/osama-bin-laden-resisted-assault-but-was-unarmed-us-officials-say/2011/05/03/AFpKmdhF_story.html)
The military or whoever has already said that they wouldn't have considered him unarmed and arrested him unless they found him completely naked. Sure enough, if you believe anything that the government has said, they found a couple phones and cash sewn into his clothing.
If you believe
anything about what Al Qaeda has done, whether the U.S. governemt, Al Qaeda, Bin Laden or anyone else has claimed it, then the soldiers had every reason to assume that Bin Laden in particular could've detonated explosives or set off any other kinds of traps at any second with as little as the push of a button on a phone or any number of other ways. The building was clearly setup to anticipate an invasion.
It wasn't just because they thought that the guy was evil and deserved to die, or because they were just following orders, or anything else. The soldiers who moved in on him had to believe that every second he remained alive they could all die. He was much more dangerous and a legitimate threat, naked or not, without a gun in his hand
in the middle of his own fortress than any kind of random "combatant" armed with a gun in the middle of a battlefield. Bin Laden had spent years convincing people of this. This wasn't some anti-government cult with some rifles holed up in a barn within America somewhere. This was a a group of suicidal terrorists/freedom fighters. Whether you're rooting for one side or the other.
It's unfortunate that any fighting or killing has ever happened between anyone throughout history. But unless you believe that the U.S. was unjust to kill in any way, any time, in any shape or form for any reason, then there's no reason to question why they admit to killing someone like Osama Bin Laden.
Sociopaths are not dangerous people by themselves... they are dangerous because they command the loyalty of sometimes thousands or even millions of violent people who are willing to die for whatever cause it is. Martyrdom is a huge bonus for these people... "my legacy will live on even after I join my God in the afterlife".
The photos of the aftermath are not available to the public because the US government fears backlash from the Islamic extremists. However, I can tell you that he was shot more than once. From what I was able to find out, Osama bin Laden was hit with at least seven bullets from multiple shooters. There were other casualties as well, though not a single US soldier was even bruised, and there were no civilians harmed whatsoever. It was about as exacting as it gets... not once during GWB's reign of terror was a mission carried out with such surgical precision... not since the Clinton-commanded raid of a bunker in the former Czechoslovakia in his seventh year as President was a mission planned out and executed so flawlessly. I wasn't able to get any further information though, so I don't know if there were any prisoners taken or what else happened; it was a DOA mission and ended up with the former option multiple times. I'll keep trying to get more information, if anyone wants it.
Quote from: CrackTiger on 05/08/2011, 06:39 PMThis was a a group of suicidal terrorists/freedom fighters.
Word. If someone's wife lunged at me and my eighty commandos, I'd shoot him in the head too.
Quote from: The Old Rover on 05/08/2011, 05:30 PMMy stance on the whole thing:
Whatever.
lol, isn't that your stance on like every debate/loldrama we talk about? :D
Quote from: rag-time4I don't think it's fair to say that I'm armchair quarterbacking. I'm not all up in arms about it, but I do feel that it's right to be critical about whether or not they did the right thing. I do think that capturing him and putting him on trial would have been a superior outcome.
Who said life is fair? I agree with that but I am not sad that he is dead.
Quote from: vescoatNeither were you; don't pretend your argument is more valid just because you're siding with the prevailing belief
That's right, I wasn't. But where did I say what my beliefs are? The best you could do is the Denis Leary quote which I thought was funny. The point I am trying to make is that shit happens, none of us were there and NONE of us can say "Hey, you should have done this or that" or even "Hey, you did exactly what you should have done". I'm not sure if I've mentioned it in this particular thread, but I found it very distasteful that people were celebrating in the streets about the news of his death. Hindsight is 20/20. People always seem to demand 100% perfection from those in the military, police and other authoritative services and really get their panties in a wad if something bad happens. People forget that those units are comprised of people, too.
Quote from: guesteveryone I've talked to in Belgium and Germany this week is shocked that we simply shot him in the head
No, we shot him in the chest first. But again, "everyone" in Belgium and Germany wasn't there. Isn't anyone surprised that the information has come out about Osama being unarmed? That info came straight out of the US Government themselves. Why would they let this be known? If they screwed up, you think they'd keep that secret... you know... like the aliens they are hiding? Or that they destroyed the World Trade Center themselves? Or that Elvis is alive and playing poker with Jimmy Hoffa?.. or that the moon landings were faked?
Quote from: guest on 05/08/2011, 07:31 PMlol, isn't that your stance on like every debate/loldrama we talk about? :D
Yep... pretty much. :D
I've got an argument you might care about, Old Rover:
If God doesn't exist, and Dinosaurs were real, how did they have sex?
Atheists - 0
Christians - 1
I WOULD HAVE SEX WITH A DINOSAUR.
Joe, that's not even a properly formed question; the first point is irrelevant to the second... and neither is relevant to the question.
I know, it is a troll question.
HAHAHAHA
Quote from: VestCunt on 05/08/2011, 07:16 PMQuote from: CrackTiger on 05/08/2011, 06:39 PMThis was a a group of suicidal terrorists/freedom fighters.
Word. If someone's wife lunged at me and my eighty commandos, I'd shoot him in the head too.
Like I said, this wasn't just some random place they happened to come across some unidentified people. This was Big Boss holed up in Outer Heaven.
Whether you think that they were in any way affiliated with Al Qaeda or not, many women, sometimes with children have carried out public suicide bombings in Afganistan. Are women some how less threatening than men? Al Qaeda has taken credit for and promised to so many things at least as bad. Is it okay to behead journalists, missionaries or any other non-combatants?
There have been many reports of U.S. Soldiers doing far worse things in Iraq and Afganistan. I'm not glad that Bin Laden or any one else was executed. I just don't see how anyone can be surprised that the U.S. carried out its plans to kill Osama Bin Laden. What did you expect them to do? Two wrongs don't make a right, but what do you think that Bin Laden would gave done if the roles were reversed?
Most people would say that he was already respinsible for much more killing of defenseless innocents.
What was the last thing to go through Osamas mind before he died?
BULLETS
Does anyone honestly believe we ever had any intention of capturing him? Bottom line is this was a political assassination and a violation of human rights. I guess it can be argued that it was worth it in this one instance, but, as much as I hate to grant lunatic, death machines like Bin Laden their rights, if we start drawing lines in the sand some Christianist, Tea Party zealot is going to take things a step further.
Besides stirring up a hornets' nest in Pakistan and enraging tons of Muslims, stunts like this and waterboarding suspects also break down the Geneva Convention and endanger our troops when they fall into enemy hands.
Furthermore, assassinating this SOB doesn't change shit. We're still fighting a faceless, international enemy, and, just as we trained, funded, and created Bin Laden and Hussein, we're still supporting murdering dictatorships in Ethiopia, Honduras, and god-knows-where else.
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 05/08/2011, 07:32 PMyou know... like the aliens they are hiding? Or that they destroyed the World Trade Center themselves? Or that Elvis is alive and playing poker with Jimmy Hoffa?.. or that the moon landings were faked?
Don't lump differing opinions in with a bunch of unrelated topics and absurdity. There's probably a logical fallacy about that somewhere.
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 05/08/2011, 07:32 PMBut where did I say what my beliefs are?
Prefacing quotes with "said it best" will lead reasonable people to summarize your opinion.
Quote from: guest on 05/09/2011, 09:03 PMBesides stirring up a hornets' nest in Pakistan and enraging tons of Muslims, stunts like this and waterboarding suspects also break down the Geneva Convention and endanger our troops when they fall into enemy hands.
Honest question. Do you think that if those things weren't done, that the terrorists would be more peaceful/not decapitate REPORTERS (non combatants), take hostages, bomb embassies, etc.?
Vestcunt for president! He has it all figured out. He knows what to do.
In all seriousness, though, shit like this happens a lot. There is no "non-evil" country in the world. I am not arguing that we can do no wrong.
Quote from: nectarsis on 05/09/2011, 09:18 PMHonest question. Do you think that if those things weren't done, that the terrorists would be more peaceful/not decapitate REPORTERS (non combatants), take hostages, bomb embassies, etc.?
Sounds like a rhetorical question to me - of course not.
Antagonistic question: Do you think we should throw out human rights and international conventions every time someone commits an atrocity?
EDIT: Sorry about that "antagonistic question" bit. Obviously, I think the answer is "no"; the end does not justify the means and if we don't raise the bar no one will.
I really enjoy reading in this thread :)
OMG!!!!!!!!!!
BRUCE LEE IS DEAD!
AND SO IS HIS SON!
1111323123!~2@(*U!@EQHADOQ@I!
Quote from: guest on 05/10/2011, 06:50 AMQuote from: nectarsis on 05/09/2011, 09:18 PMHonest question. Do you think that if those things weren't done, that the terrorists would be more peaceful/not decapitate REPORTERS (non combatants), take hostages, bomb embassies, etc.?
Sounds like a rhetorical question to me - of course not.
Antagonistic question: Do you think we should throw out human rights and international conventions every time someone commits an atrocity?
EDIT: Sorry about that "antagonistic question" bit. Obviously, I think the answer is "no"; the end does not justify the means and if we don't raise the bar no one will.
In that case everyone needs to get rid of the dead or alive warrants. I don't see that ever happeneing. IMO there was PROBABLY no way he was going to get "taken alive" anyways (which in many cases is WHY they are listed dead or alive). The danger to the troops going into "Outer Heaven" (as BT stated) was extremely high. IF the plan was to simply take him out I would have opted for a HEAVILY armed Predator...the worst that could happen would be carpal tunnel for the "pilot."
Quote from: SuperDeadite on 05/10/2011, 08:07 AMOMG!!!!!!!!!!
BRUCE LEE IS DEAD!
AND SO IS HIS SON!
1111323123!~2@(*U!@EQHADOQ@I!
:cry: :cry:
The plan wasn't simply to take out ObL, they also had to account for his death after the fact. That's why it was required to recover the body... to send a message to the "enemy" that we wiped out their figurehead, and to assure the American people that "the enemy was defeated". If the objective was to simply eradicate his ass, they could have just dropped a bomb on his head like they did with Ghadafi's son. But this was more about "war trophies" than anything else.
I understand what you are saying about human rights, Vestcunt. But keeping everyone prisoner costs money. There would have been a huge security detail guarding Osama for the rest of his life if we kept him alive in a maximum security prison. That's money we don't really have to spend. And before you say something like "human life is more important than money", stop. Money is far more important than any human life. Just look at how the world is. Money talks much louder. I'm not saying it's right, of course, but I'm saying that's the way it is.
Staying off the issue of money, the other problem with playing judge, jury, and executioner is that there's never any way to be 100% certain we have the right guy. In 2002 the FBI wasn't certain of anything. After that some really crappy video footage of a confession conveniently appeared. It would have been a logistical nightmare, but he should have had a trial.
if we kept him prisoner, HELLO ATTEMPTED RESCUE MISSIONS.
more suicide bombers and idiots being idiots to save Captain Osamabamalama.