Comparing the 16-bit Homebrew...

Started by jlued686, 12/13/2013, 12:00 PM

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jlued686

Honest question: out of the big 16-bit rivals (Genesis, SNES, TG16), is it fair to say that the Turbo has the most active and prolific homebrew scene? Granted, I don't pay much attention to what the other communities have going on. But I was thinking that over the past couple years we've seen a fair number of independent games that have resulted in actual manufactured releases, and there are a bunch more in the making.

Yay/Nay?

If so, I think it's pretty cool that the console that was the unquestioned loser in the console wars (sales-wise), is the one with the longest legs.

PS: Thanks to you guys for continuing development. As long as you keep making 'em, I'll keep buying 'em.

Nando


Arkhan Asylum

Yes.

At one point I would've said Genesis, even though most of the stuff is just unreleased stuff that is finally published.


But, we've got the most productive scene. 

Sure, people may call Insanity shovelware, but for what it set out to do, I say, Mission Accomplished.

IMG
This "max-level forum psycho" (:lol:) destroyed TWO PC Engine groups in rage: one by Aaron Lambert on Facebook "Because Chris 'Shadowland' Runyon!," then the other by Aaron Nanto "Because Le NightWolve!" Him and PCE Aarons don't have a good track record together... Both times he blamed the Aarons in a "Look-what-you-made-us-do?!" manner, never himself nor his deranged, destructive, toxic turbo troll gang!

OldRover

I only know of a couple of physical homebrew releases for the Genesis... everyone knows Pier Solar, and there's also Frog Feast. Beggar Prince does not really count as a homebrew release, since it's just a translation that Brandon Cobb rubbed his nutsack all over. Repros are pretty common in Genesisland but they don't really count either.

I know of absolutely zero SNES homebrew releases on actual carts aside from the compilation that Piko Interactive is doing (and even then, is it homebrew? I'm not sure). I'm sure there's at least one other... somewhere... that isn't a repro...

Both of those consoles have homebrew releases, but very few of them seem to have been released on nicely-made physical media.
Turbo Badass Rank: Janne (6 of 12 clears)
Conquered so far: Sinistron, Violent Soldier, Tatsujin, Super Raiden, Shape Shifter, Rayxanber II

touko

I think genesis scene is more active, 1985alternativo, a spanish team released 2 commercial games, oh mummy ,and uwol, and a new shmup to come (antarex) .
Some 8bit pc adaptation was made in basic(crazy cars,and babarian) ..
The genesis scene is also more active in term of developpement tools and tech doc,demo .

Arkhan Asylum

Quote from: touko on 12/13/2013, 02:06 PMI think genesis scene is more active, 1985alternativo, a spanish team released 2 commercial games, oh mummy ,and uwol, and a new shmup to come (antarex) .
Some 8bit pc adaptation was made in basic(crazy cars,and babarian) ..
The genesis scene is also more active in term of developpement tools and tech doc,demo .
Aetherbyte released two commercial games, a free game, and has more games on the way.... and that's just one group.   There are other PCE groups, lol.

All they have on us is better devtools.
This "max-level forum psycho" (:lol:) destroyed TWO PC Engine groups in rage: one by Aaron Lambert on Facebook "Because Chris 'Shadowland' Runyon!," then the other by Aaron Nanto "Because Le NightWolve!" Him and PCE Aarons don't have a good track record together... Both times he blamed the Aarons in a "Look-what-you-made-us-do?!" manner, never himself nor his deranged, destructive, toxic turbo troll gang!

touko

yes in a commercial games point of view, pce scene is better (not by far), but genesis scene is more active in general, many guys have worked on the genesis technical aspects, like fm chip, quality samples with and without z80, 3d rendering etc, or very accurate emulator for devs .

The Pce technical doc, is not as good as genesis one IMO.

Arkhan Asylum

Yeah we don't have as good of tech docs/etc.  for sure.

The PCE's "tech demo" phase seems to have died off a few years ago.   I'd prefer to see real games come out instead of tech demos, anyway.
This "max-level forum psycho" (:lol:) destroyed TWO PC Engine groups in rage: one by Aaron Lambert on Facebook "Because Chris 'Shadowland' Runyon!," then the other by Aaron Nanto "Because Le NightWolve!" Him and PCE Aarons don't have a good track record together... Both times he blamed the Aarons in a "Look-what-you-made-us-do?!" manner, never himself nor his deranged, destructive, toxic turbo troll gang!

CrackTiger

There are more demos, hacks and misc pirate games for Genesis, plus stuff like Rick Dangerous and the upcoming Wolfenstein 3D game. PCE is definitely tops for new complete games, if you don't count all those Rusian MD games.
Justin the Not-So-Cheery Black/Hack/CrackTiger helped Joshua Jackass, Andrew/Arkhan Dildovich and the DildoPhiles destroy 2 PC Engine groups: one by Aaron Lambert on Facebook, then the other by Aaron Nanto!!! Him and PCE Aarons don't have a good track record together! Both times he blamed the Aarons and their staff in a "Look-what-you-made-us-do?!" manner, never himself nor his deranged/destructive/doxxing toxic turbo troll gang which he covers up for under the "community" euphemism!

touko

#9
You'r right arkhan, but tech demos are a good way to make more impressive games .

It is through the demos that SGDK, the genesis C dev kit,allows you to play up to 4 samples at same time with good quality, or direct color dma for 512 colors on screen, etc ...

I don't want to minimize the pce effort, but it's mathematical, more devs you have,more chances to have games  :mrgreen:

@CrackTiger: there is also the port of wolfenstein 3d .

Tatsujin

adding the NG in, i think it would win in terms of highest production and developement cost, as well commercial releases. altough it's only one team really doing for it.
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TurboXray

The Genesis/Megadrive scene is very active (I even coded for a bit on the Genesis). There have been a number of free releases and such for the sega 16-bitter. And as far as released games on cart/cd/etc, there are a handful that touko mentioned. Sik is supposedly finished up his platformer: Project MD (everything was done, he was just tweaking the level layouts and enemy AI, etc). He teamed up with another coder/musician they released that Overdrive sega demo:
Overdrive by Titan (Sega Mega Drive/Genesis Demo)

 I'd also consider ports part of the homebrew scene and that SMB1 port to the Gen/MD in that category.

 There are numerous other coders/dabblers that have contributed to the dev scene too. ~Overall~, (as of the moment) - I'd say the sega 16bitter homebrew/dev scene is bigger than the PCE. But that's kind of to be expected; Sega 16bit machine has a huge following. Once Arkhan and the Old Rover release some games, PCE will be in the lead IMO.

 SNES dev scene seems to have died off. Even then, most of the dev scene for SNES was in relation to translations and hacks. I can think of only one homebrew game that got released on cart for the SNES.

Xak

Thank you for  Pier Solar my Russian friends!

It was last years Christmas gift. Waiting for a larger HDTV to enjoy it on since the graphics are rather small.
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CrackTiger

Quote from: Xak on 12/14/2013, 08:42 AMThank you for  Pier Solar my Russian friends!

It was last years Christmas gift. Waiting for a larger HDTV to enjoy it on since the graphics are rather small.
You bought a bootleg?
Justin the Not-So-Cheery Black/Hack/CrackTiger helped Joshua Jackass, Andrew/Arkhan Dildovich and the DildoPhiles destroy 2 PC Engine groups: one by Aaron Lambert on Facebook, then the other by Aaron Nanto!!! Him and PCE Aarons don't have a good track record together! Both times he blamed the Aarons and their staff in a "Look-what-you-made-us-do?!" manner, never himself nor his deranged/destructive/doxxing toxic turbo troll gang which he covers up for under the "community" euphemism!

FraGMarE

That Titan demo is ah-fucking-mazing... Wish there was some flashy, eye-catching stuff like that on the PCE  :/

touko

#15
@fragmare: Yes it is, but needs a pal console to work,ntsc ones are not enough powerful.

CrackTiger

Quote from: fragmare on 12/18/2013, 07:54 AMThat Titan demo is ah-fucking-mazing... Wish there was some flashy, eye-catching stuff like that on the PCE  :/
There's the Punk Floyd demo for SuperGrafx, which couldn't be pulled off on Genesis, SNES or PCE.
Justin the Not-So-Cheery Black/Hack/CrackTiger helped Joshua Jackass, Andrew/Arkhan Dildovich and the DildoPhiles destroy 2 PC Engine groups: one by Aaron Lambert on Facebook, then the other by Aaron Nanto!!! Him and PCE Aarons don't have a good track record together! Both times he blamed the Aarons and their staff in a "Look-what-you-made-us-do?!" manner, never himself nor his deranged/destructive/doxxing toxic turbo troll gang which he covers up for under the "community" euphemism!

Nando

Quote from: TurboXray on 12/13/2013, 10:33 PMSNES dev scene seems to have died off. Even then, most of the dev scene for SNES was in relation to translations and hacks. I can think of only one homebrew game that got released on cart for the SNES.
I've been wondering about this, with as much "love" as this console gets, one would think there would be more Homebrew on it.

Any standout Homebrews for the SNES/Super Fami?

CrackTiger

Quote from: Nando on 12/18/2013, 12:26 PM
Quote from: TurboXray on 12/13/2013, 10:33 PMSNES dev scene seems to have died off. Even then, most of the dev scene for SNES was in relation to translations and hacks. I can think of only one homebrew game that got released on cart for the SNES.
It's supposed to be a nightmare to develop for. If it was as easy to orogram as the Genesis, there would be a steady stream if new games.


I've been wondering about this, with as much "love" as this console gets, one would think there would be more Homebrew on it.

Any standout Homebrews for the SNES/Super Fami?
Quote from: Nando on 12/18/2013, 12:26 PM
Quote from: TurboXray on 12/13/2013, 10:33 PMSNES dev scene seems to have died off. Even then, most of the dev scene for SNES was in relation to translations and hacks. I can think of only one homebrew game that got released on cart for the SNES.
I've been wondering about this, with as much "love" as this console gets, one would think there would be more Homebrew on it.

Any standout Homebrews for the SNES/Super Fami?
Justin the Not-So-Cheery Black/Hack/CrackTiger helped Joshua Jackass, Andrew/Arkhan Dildovich and the DildoPhiles destroy 2 PC Engine groups: one by Aaron Lambert on Facebook, then the other by Aaron Nanto!!! Him and PCE Aarons don't have a good track record together! Both times he blamed the Aarons and their staff in a "Look-what-you-made-us-do?!" manner, never himself nor his deranged/destructive/doxxing toxic turbo troll gang which he covers up for under the "community" euphemism!

roflmao

Quote from: TurboXray on 12/13/2013, 10:33 PMOverdrive by Titan (Sega Mega Drive/Genesis Demo)
Man, every time I see that demo, I'm impressed.  I wish those folks were doing awesome stuff for the pce/tg.

TurboXray

#20
Quote from: guest on 12/18/2013, 08:28 PM
Quote from: TurboXray on 12/13/2013, 10:33 PMOverdrive by Titan (Sega Mega Drive/Genesis Demo)
Man, every time I see that demo, I'm impressed.  I wish those folks were doing awesome stuff for the pce/tg.
Maybe. You need a more PCE centric coder, or at least for the main coder. Someone that knows the system in and out. I actually have pretty big bag of tricks/effects that haven't been done on the PCE (at least publicly). Some of them are very specific to the PCE hardware and can't be done the same way on other consoles. I just never got a team together, or rather interested in the PCE, to put out a nice demo. I recently asked a chiptune artists that does MD and Famicom musics, if he wanted to help in doing a 'music' demo for the PCE. Something simple graphically/presentation, but focus on just pushed PCE sound limits. Got declined. Nothing new. Oh well :/

 None of the PCE 'demos' (in the traditional meaning) are impressive. Ccovell did some impressive stuffs, but not really in the traditional demo style (IMO). But speaking of which, here's a recent 'invite' made on the PC-Engine:
 
 DATASTORM 2014 Invitation (PCE) by Up Rough
(mooz did the graphic effects). Download link: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=62012


 Edit: I broke down and bought a Turbo Everdrive. My tototek card suck and my turbo rom board is limited to 8megabits. Tototek card also doesn't work with the SuperCDROM^2 addon and accessing BRAM of CD functions (I had a few demo ideas that used a hucard and 64k CDROM ram). Still waiting for that sucka (been almost a month now since I ordered it). Krizz or whatever is name is, said that he thinks the SF2 mapper supports up to 4megabytes (32megabites). Not the full 8.5megabytes that Mednafen supports, but better than nothing (assuming what he says is true).

touko

I agree with you, we needs some specific demo coders ..
Two sides in PCE dev could be fine, one for GAMES, and one for demos .

TurboXray

Quote from: touko on 12/20/2013, 03:51 AMI agree with you, we needs some specific demo coders ..
Two sides in PCE dev could be fine, one for GAMES, and one for demos .
I agree. And demos can also help on the game dev side too. Demo coders are always figuring out new tricks to do on the system, that can be applied to game development as well. Either partially or fully.

 Case in point; I have a special horizontal line fill routine for the PCE that doesn't require any local buffer in ram (which is expensive cpu cycle wise). You write directly to the VDC. It's fast too. I created it for a demo, but you could easily use it for a game. Polygons aren't the only thing you can do with it ;)

 Another case scenario; raster bars. The PCE actually has a second BG layer all to its self. A raster interrupt to change color #0 in the BG palette can be used to create a simple layer of parallax - in a game (and yes, not just stupid raster 'bars'). Etc. Actually, there are many examples. I create a whole thread about it (don't worry, I won't).

ccovell

Quote from: TurboXray on 12/24/2013, 04:13 PMEtc. Actually, there are many examples. I create a whole thread about it (don't worry, I won't).
Please do!  ;-D  Actually, there are probably a couple threads with tech/effect analysis on the PCE already.

touko

Some efficient 3D routines exist for C64, and why PCE with it's powerful processor would not be able to do it better ???

Arkhan Asylum

Quote from: touko on 12/25/2013, 06:36 AMSome efficient 3D routines exist for C64, and why PCE with it's powerful processor would not be able to do it better ???
Which 3D routines?   

I think some of those use the C64's bitmap mode, which is something we don't exactly have the same kind of access to on PCE.

Alot of the 3D stuff you see in games runs like shit, anyway.  The Sentinel was kind of neat, at least.

but, it's been awhile since I've looked into C64 stuff.   I haven't looked since 2007 or so.

This "max-level forum psycho" (:lol:) destroyed TWO PC Engine groups in rage: one by Aaron Lambert on Facebook "Because Chris 'Shadowland' Runyon!," then the other by Aaron Nanto "Because Le NightWolve!" Him and PCE Aarons don't have a good track record together... Both times he blamed the Aarons in a "Look-what-you-made-us-do?!" manner, never himself nor his deranged, destructive, toxic turbo troll gang!

touko

keep in mind that C64 have a CPU at less than 1mhz, and bitmap mode or not this machine is widely less powerful than pce ..

when i spoke of efficient 3D routines, it was for demos of course not for games, arkhan you didn't expect to have realtime textured 3D in C64 games ??? ;-)

Arkhan Asylum

Quote from: touko on 12/26/2013, 04:41 AMkeep in mind that C64 have a CPU at less than 1mhz, and bitmap mode or not this machine is widely less powerful than pce ..

when i spoke of efficient 3D routines, it was for demos of course not for games, arkhan you didn't expect to have realtime textured 3D in C64 games ??? ;-)
C64 - M.O.O.D.
This "max-level forum psycho" (:lol:) destroyed TWO PC Engine groups in rage: one by Aaron Lambert on Facebook "Because Chris 'Shadowland' Runyon!," then the other by Aaron Nanto "Because Le NightWolve!" Him and PCE Aarons don't have a good track record together... Both times he blamed the Aarons in a "Look-what-you-made-us-do?!" manner, never himself nor his deranged, destructive, toxic turbo troll gang!

touko

#28
 :lol:

eh is not in bitmap mode, but caracters .
If C64 can, pce can do it far better .

CrackTiger

Justin the Not-So-Cheery Black/Hack/CrackTiger helped Joshua Jackass, Andrew/Arkhan Dildovich and the DildoPhiles destroy 2 PC Engine groups: one by Aaron Lambert on Facebook, then the other by Aaron Nanto!!! Him and PCE Aarons don't have a good track record together! Both times he blamed the Aarons and their staff in a "Look-what-you-made-us-do?!" manner, never himself nor his deranged/destructive/doxxing toxic turbo troll gang which he covers up for under the "community" euphemism!

Nando

Quote from: guest on 12/18/2013, 02:18 PM
Quote from: Nando on 12/18/2013, 12:26 PM
Quote from: TurboXray on 12/13/2013, 10:33 PMSNES dev scene seems to have died off. Even then, most of the dev scene for SNES was in relation to translations and hacks. I can think of only one homebrew game that got released on cart for the SNES.
It's supposed to be a nightmare to develop for. If it was as easy to orogram as the Genesis, there would be a steady stream if new games.


I've been wondering about this, with as much "love" as this console gets, one would think there would be more Homebrew on it.

Any standout Homebrews for the SNES/Super Fami?
Quote from: Nando on 12/18/2013, 12:26 PM
Quote from: TurboXray on 12/13/2013, 10:33 PMSNES dev scene seems to have died off. Even then, most of the dev scene for SNES was in relation to translations and hacks. I can think of only one homebrew game that got released on cart for the SNES.
I've been wondering about this, with as much "love" as this console gets, one would think there would be more Homebrew on it.

Any standout Homebrews for the SNES/Super Fami?
Que?

TurboXray

#31
Depends what you count as 'homebrew'. PCE/TG16 have a handful of a little/tiny games for it. Public stuff too. Some of the stuff B_T listed for the Genesis, is too small to really can't as homebrew games IMO. But that's just me, because technically they are 'games'. And not just something unfinished/uncompleted.

Nando: Que paso. Que un juengo homebrew por snes, no es bueno. IMO, anyway. It's some German game. I forget, but it was released on cart and did have 4 simultaneous players IIRC.

 Yeah, snes isn't as clean an architecture as say the PCE/TG16 (video side), or more so - the Gen/MD (video/main cpu side). But that's kind of irrelevant. Once you learn a system, you know the system. You get used to all the quirks and convoluted-ness. The c64 is pretty convoluted, for what they do with it now (and since the past 15 years). They have to write some really complex code/structure to do a lot of the stuff - compared to when it was first released. Same with the Atari 8bit small computer line (even the 7800). And yet those systems are currently getting development love (though atari systems seem to be on the rise will the c64 is on the decline, for new games). Having looked over all the registers and what it takes to do the stuff they are doing nowadays, on those systems, I would say the SNES is less complicated than either of those system.

 I think a good example (IMO) is the PCE with HuC. HuC needs a decent amount of support to get some speed back out of it. That makes it more complex, than say just a simple ASM environment. And yet, look at what Old Rover and Arkhan are doing with it.

Nando

Go figure. Them Nintendo fanboys are lacking on the homebrew scene...

TurboXray

True, but man.. you should see the translation scene. I'm not sure who has the largest scene; NES or SNES. But either way, it's a close race there. I mean, hey - it's like having a brand new game (for those that don't understand japanese and didn't play those softs BITD). It's still pretty good. But, it's limited to RPGs mostly. Where as homebrew gives you other types of games than just RPGs.

 Funny that NES has both the translation scene (mostly because it's quite easy to translate in comparison to other systems) and a decent homebrew scene/active dev scene.

esteban

Quote from: TurboXray on 12/27/2013, 12:47 PMFunny that NES has both the translation scene (mostly because it's quite easy to translate in comparison to other systems) and a decent homebrew scene/active dev scene.
...because FC/NES = best console ever.
IMGIMG IMG  |  IMG  |  IMG IMG

Nando

Quote from: TurboXray on 12/27/2013, 12:47 PMTrue, but man.. you should see the translation scene. I'm not sure who has the largest scene; NES or SNES. But either way, it's a close race there. I mean, hey - it's like having a brand new game (for those that don't understand japanese and didn't play those softs BITD). It's still pretty good. But, it's limited to RPGs mostly. Where as homebrew gives you other types of games than just RPGs.

 Funny that NES has both the translation scene (mostly because it's quite easy to translate in comparison to other systems) and a decent homebrew scene/active dev scene.
Not at all what I would expect that's for sure.

So what are some good NES homebrew games? LOL

Psycho Punch

This Toxic Turbo Troll & Clone Warrior calls himself "Burning Fight!!" on Neo-Geo.com
For a good time, reach out to: aleffrenan94@gmail.com or punchballmariobros@gmail.com
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He also ran scripts to steal/clone this forum which blew up the error logs!
I had to delete THOUSANDS of error log entries cause of this nutcase!
how_to_spell_ys_sign_origin_ver.webp

TurboXray

#37
Quote from: Nando on 12/30/2013, 11:07 AM
Quote from: TurboXray on 12/27/2013, 12:47 PMTrue, but man.. you should see the translation scene. I'm not sure who has the largest scene; NES or SNES. But either way, it's a close race there. I mean, hey - it's like having a brand new game (for those that don't understand japanese and didn't play those softs BITD). It's still pretty good. But, it's limited to RPGs mostly. Where as homebrew gives you other types of games than just RPGs.

 Funny that NES has both the translation scene (mostly because it's quite easy to translate in comparison to other systems) and a decent homebrew scene/active dev scene.
Not at all what I would expect that's for sure.

So what are some good NES homebrew games? LOL
Good is subjective, lol. But here's a few that I thought were decent:
Alter Ego by Shiru, Kulor, Denis Grachev
Blade Buster (NES/Famicom Homebrew Shoot 'Em Up)
(^- there's a 2 and 5 minute version)
NES Longplay [179] Zooming Secretary (Homebrew)
(^- this game is hilariously fun. Also, read the manual for this; it's hilarious!)
The two Battle Kid games are pretty good, too. There's actually a lot of homebrew for the NES - too much to remember. And I haven't played them all. Some are difficult to find, because the homebrew scene started back in 2003/4 for NES. Some are incomplete/canceled, some are still WIP and only released as demos (Super Bat Puncher!).

 And of course there are extensive hacks that have large parts of the gameplay mechanics added or expanded on, which all new story, enemies, AI, levels, etc. Typically in the Castlevania, SMB, and Megaman based areas. Not exactly homebrew, but are new games per se (and have ASM hacking). These are more rare(er) than your simple sprite/tile/level hacks.

 Edit:
Forgot about this one (couldn't remember the name of it). It's also a full game (homebrew):
Nomolos: Storming the Catsle - NES Homebrew by Gradual Games

Nando

Nice, some interesting titles for sure.

Thanks for the info and videos!

Still can't quite get over the anemic states of SNES homebrew. At least those look like some fun NES games.

I have seen some of the mods for SNES and NES, mainly the SMB and Megaman stuff.  Haven't played those yet.

ccovell

Quote from: TurboXray on 12/30/2013, 12:56 PMThere's actually a lot of homebrew for the NES - too much to remember. And I haven't played them all. Some are difficult to find, because the homebrew scene started back in 2003/4 for NES.
:-(

Tony Young had stuff out much earlier...  And I released Solar Wars in 1999 (even made some carts for it.)

TurboXray

Quote from: ccovell on 12/30/2013, 08:13 PM
Quote from: TurboXray on 12/30/2013, 12:56 PMThere's actually a lot of homebrew for the NES - too much to remember. And I haven't played them all. Some are difficult to find, because the homebrew scene started back in 2003/4 for NES.
:-(

Tony Young had stuff out much earlier...  And I released Solar Wars in 1999 (even made some carts for it.)
That far back, huh? Wow :D