save ram for duos

[termis]

Anyone know of a program that shows you how much room each save file is taking up within your save ram (either built in to any games or a homebrew utility)?  I thought I saw something like this, but I can't recall where...

Reason why I'm asking is I only have 4 save files from my last rpg KO Seiki Sanjuushi, but my memory is already full!  I can't quite grasp that only 4 of these files filled up my whole bank.  I'm actually suspecting that there's some corrupted data that's clogging it up, but I can't quite verify any of that without any of the aforementioned programs above.

In fact, I don't even know how big the save ram is for the duo - anyone know off hand?

[runinruder]

When I started playing Cosmic Fantasy 4 Chapter 2 the other day, I didn't have enough room to save so it brought up a screen displaying the game files I already had saved and I think it showed how much room they were taking up.  I didn't pay much attention to the screen, honestly; I just deleted my Chapter One file and got on with things.  But if you have CF4C2, try it.

[ccovell]

If you have a flash cartridge, you could use the BRAM tool that I made here.  Valis IV also has a hidden menu that can show BRAM file sizes and let you delete files.

The PCE/Duo's BRAM size is 2KBytes on all systems.

[Seldane]

Hey ccovell, I'm just wondering whether it would be easy to "port" your program to the cd format (excluding the backup part of course). I'm not asking you to do it, I'm just curious how much work that it would involve.

[termis]

Ah, thanks folks.  I'll try out some of those solutions.  Dang, I knew I saw that page of yours somewhere Chris.  There is was...

I really want a flash ram card now...  I think I'll start shoppin.  Anyone know a good site?

[ccovell]

Hey ccovell, I'm just wondering whether it would be easy to "port" your program to the cd format (excluding the backup part of course). I'm not asking you to do it, I'm just curious how much work that it would involve.

I really have no idea how easy it would be, since I still haven't looked into anything about the CD format technically.  If there's a CD loader that'll just load 128K or 256K of a HuCard ROM (adjusted for CD RAM) into memory, and jump to its reset routine, then I guess that would be useful for all my demos and my game.

The "backup part" would still be possible on the CD, since it uses the BRAM for backup storage as well.

[VestCunt]

Reason why I'm asking is I only have 4 save files from my last rpg KO Seiki Sanjuushi, but my memory is already full!  I can't quite grasp that only 4 of these files filled up my whole bank. 

Some of those RPGs will fill up your bank fast!  Later releases like Might and Magic 3 and Dragon Slayer will take up most of your bank by themselves.

I don't know anything about flashcards, but I bookmarked this site when people were talking about them last year:
http://www.neoflash.com/
I remember the PCE flashcard on this site cost something like $150 at the time and I kind of wrote it off.

If you don't have CF4 p2 or some of those others games, Order of the Griffon will show you how much room your files are taking.

If I were you I'd just pick up a Tennokoe Bank.  It should give you all of the room you need for the time being.

[termis]

Reason why I'm asking is I only have 4 save files from my last rpg KO Seiki Sanjuushi, but my memory is already full!  I can't quite grasp that only 4 of these files filled up my whole bank. 

Some of those RPGs will fill up your bank fast!  Later releases like Might and Magic 3 and Dragon Slayer will take up most of your bank by themselves.

I don't know anything about flashcards, but I bookmarked this site when people were talking about them last year:
http://www.neoflash.com/
I remember the PCE flashcard on this site cost something like $150 at the time and I kind of wrote it off.

If you don't have CF4 p2 or some of those others games, Order of the Griffon will show you how much room your files are taking.

If I were you I'd just pick up a Tennokoe Bank.  It should give you all of the room you need for the time being.

Yeah, you may be right about it just filling it up with only 4 save files if the ram is only 2048 bytes.  I didn't think the duo had megabytes of save ram, but I would've guessed at least 64-128k or so.  I guess I was waaay off.  I saved all my saves from Ys I-IV & Gulliver Boy on one bank (each game taking an avg. of taking 2 slots or so), so I thought it was weird that only 4 files filled up a whole bank.

I do have a tennokoe card, but with all the RPGs I've still yet to play, I may need to invest a couple more, or just delete my old ones - which I hate doing, though I never bother ever loading them ever again. 

Edit: I d/l'ed Cosmic Fantasy 4 to get this ram editor, so I popped it in, and yup.  Each of those dang files took up 503Bytes, so 4 of them filled it up. 

BTW, did Cosmic Fantasy series go to a digital comic series more so than a traditional RPG after part 3?  That's what it seemed to be for the first 5 minutes of play...

[runinruder]

BTW, did Cosmic Fantasy series go to a digital comic series more so than a traditional RPG after part 3?  That's what it seemed to be for the first 5 minutes of play... 

It's only like that for the first few minutes.  Then it's back to traditional play. 

Same thing in CF4 Chapter 2.

[OldRover]

I find it strange that the bram's actual size is 2k yet the hardware seems able to use up to 8k.

[ccovell]

Kinda like how the PCE has address space for 128K of graphics memory but only has 64K equipped.   

[OldRover]

Maybe there were plans for expansion as memory prices dropped? Dunno...

Hrm...whatsaythen...the SGX has two VDCs, I wonder if it'd be possible to equip both VDCs with 128k of ram?

[VestCunt]

Hey nodtveidt, could you please shed some light on what that expansion port on the front of the SGX was made to handle?

[Joe Redifer]

Yes, if you press SELECT at the title screen of Valis IV, the following screen appears:



I just want to know what the 5 selections at the top of the screen mean.  Most give YES/NO choices.

Also, WTF is XZR ?  I don't remember what game that is and I'm afraid to delete it.

[ccovell]

The 5 commands are:
Initialize, Delete, Revive (1 file), Restore, End.

Initialize is self-explanatory, revive un-deletes 1 file IIRC, and restore restores all the files to the way they were when you entered the screen.  Changes to BRAM are not saved until you choose end.

XZR is probably "Exile", its name on the MegaDrive.

[nat]

Why the fuck does Bubble Bobble III take up so much space? Isn't it just a high score list?

[Joe Redifer]

Thanks.

Yeah XZR probably is Exile.  I'm surprised Working Designs didn't translate the save file name into something like "Poop Squish" or something else amazingly hilarious like that.

[OldRover]

XZR is Exile.

Bubble Bobble III's save contains far more than a high score list...it contains a huge list of event switches and variables that are stored for later games. That's how it manages to have such widely varied games in terms of item placement.

[GUTS]

Hey I have a question for you guys about Bubble Bobble III.  When I was a kid I did the "reset 99 times" trick to get the necklace, but all I had was a regular Turbo with no save memory.  How the hell did the game keep track of having the power turned off and on 99 times?

[JoshTurboTrollX]

That Valis IV trick seems like the best one to see all the saves and how much space they take up!  But I don't own that game(yet)...

Anyway's on US Duo's you could use Order of the Griffon(Chip) to see all the saves also.  I'm not sure but I think you could even erase some of those saves from that screen also-


hmmm, I'll go try it and see if thats the case.

[nat]

Anyway's on US Duo's you could use Order of the Griffon(Chip) to see all the saves also.  I'm not sure but I think you could even erase some of those saves from that screen also-

If you're just looking to see/erase individual save files, you can use any System card. Press SELECT at the main screen. The drawback of this method is that it doesn't show you the file sizes, just the filenames.

[Seldane]

Hey I have a question for you guys about Bubble Bobble III.  When I was a kid I did the "reset 99 times" trick to get the necklace, but all I had was a regular Turbo with no save memory.  How the hell did the game keep track of having the power turned off and on 99 times?

Because you used reset and not power off. Reset is not the same thing as turning the system off and then on again, there's still data left in the system.

[JoshTurboTrollX]

If you're just looking to see/erase individual save files, you can use any System card. Press SELECT at the main screen. The drawback of this method is that it doesn't show you the file sizes, just the filenames.

Wow!  A select button with a purpose- NEC knew what they were doing!

Is there a way to see the file sizes AND erase/see the save files?  If I desperately needed to erase something, and had to chose between two save files it would be nice to know how much room I am freeing up with just one save.

[Joe Redifer]

Yes, the Valis 4 screen on the previous page will let you as will Cosmic Fantasy Stories 4-2 or something like that.

[nat]

Old school text regarding save files on the Turbo:

http://turbo.mindrec.com/files/gamesave.faq

[GUTS]

Seldane no here's the deal though, I didn't have to do it 99 times, the game somehow kept track of how many times a new game was started.  Once I learned about the trick I actually only had to do it like 30 or 40 times since I had already played the hell out of the game for a year or so.  I remember this blowing me away back then because I couldn't figure out how it happened since I knew no turbo chip games had any kind of save memory, but somehow Parasol Stars kept track of how many games had been played on it or something like that.

[termis]

Seldane no here's the deal though, I didn't have to do it 99 times, the game somehow kept track of how many times a new game was started.  Once I learned about the trick I actually only had to do it like 30 or 40 times since I had already played the hell out of the game for a year or so.  I remember this blowing me away back then because I couldn't figure out how it happened since I knew no turbo chip games had any kind of save memory, but somehow Parasol Stars kept track of how many games had been played on it or something like that.

Parasol Stars is one of those chip games that keep a save file.  But that is strange if you didn't have a CD-ROM or an AV Booster+ attachment like you said above.

[VestCunt]

Old school text regarding save files on the Turbo:

http://turbo.mindrec.com/files/gamesave.faq

Thank you Nat!  I think Steve666 mentioned the existence of this document a year and a half ago when we were talking about the MB128 or something.  I was afraid I'd never see this text.

[Joe Redifer]

The link nat posted is interesting if incomplete.  But the FAQ's file sizes definitely seem to skew lower than the actual file size.  The FAQ says Ys takes up something like 45 when in actuality it takes up 61.  I've noticed this on many of his examples.

[nat]

Also note it states that Parasol Stars doesn't keep any kind of save file.

I thought it might at least be of some interest from a historical standpoint, if nothing else.

[A Black Falcon]

The link nat posted is interesting if incomplete.  But the FAQ's file sizes definitely seem to skew lower than the actual file size.  The FAQ says Ys takes up something like 45 when in actuality it takes up 61.  I've noticed this on many of his examples.

I know I'm bumping a pretty old thread, but I just got that Turbo CD and modded TG16 back yesterday, and have been playing the import and CD games I'd purchased in the interim, of course.  And yeah, the numbers in that FAQ are all too low.  I wonder, how did that happen... http://turbo.mindrec.com/files/gamesave.faq

That list has lots of detail... but on my system, all of the games I have are listed in Valis IV as having larger save file sizes as appear on this list.  Does anyone know why this would be?  Here's what I mean.

First though, in that FAQ, the guy says that he used Order of the Griffon to view the file sizes.  Do file sizes appear different in that game, versus Valis IV?  I can't imagine why that would be, but it WOULD be an explanation.  I don't have Griffon, though, so I can't test this myself.  Anyway though, in Valis IV, this is what I get:

HuCards
--
Bomberman '93 (J ver.) - 32 blocks per file (also has passwords) (can save only at Continue menu.  Three files allowed.) (listing page said 16 blocks, but it's 32 on my Turbografx.)
Tiger Road (U ver.) - 56 blocks (listing site said 40 blocks, but it's 56 on my Turbografx.)
Doraemon Meikyuu Daisakusen (J ver. of Cratermaze) - 18 blocks (also has passwords) (only saves at Continue menu) (this number is what's reported in my Japanese copy of the game.  The listing page says that the game [US version] takes up only 1 block.)
Final Soldier (J) - 34 blocks (listing page says 18 blocks, but it's 32 on my Turbografx.)

KickBall (J) - 18 blocks (this one isn't listed on the list above, but it does save, with the file that size on my system.)


CDs
--
Cosmic Fantasy 2 (U ver.) - 354 blocks per file, 2 files required (CD) (so 708 blocks required) (listing page says 336, so 676 blocks required, but on my TG16 it's 354/708.)
Last Alert (U ver.) - 48 blocks (CD) (listing page says 32, but it's 48 on my Turbografx.)
Splash Lake (U ver.) - 78 blocks (CD) (listing page says 62 blocks, but it's 78 on my Turbografx.)
Ys Books I & II (U ver.) - 61 blocks per file (CD) (listing page said 45 blocks per file, but it's 61 on my Turbografx.)
Road Spirits (J) - 149 blocks (listing page said 138 blocks, but it's 149 on my Turbografx)

Valis IV (CD) - 48 blocks (listing page didn't have a file size for this one)

[cabbage]

And yeah, the numbers in that FAQ are all too low.  I wonder, how did that happen... http://turbo.mindrec.com/files/gamesave.faq

That list has lots of detail... but on my system, all of the games I have are listed in Valis IV as having larger save file sizes as appear on this list.  Does anyone know why this would be?

There is a difference of 16 bytes for each file. This just happens to be the size of the header for a save file:
2 bytes for the size of the save data
2 bytes for checksum
2 bytes for "unique" ID
10 bytes for the save file name

gamesave.faq lists the size of the actual game save data stored by each game--without the save file header.

so I assume Order of the Griffon just gets the "size of save data" in each file's header and lists the results but does not add the additional 16 bytes consumed by the header itself...whereas Valis IV reports header+data size. (Note-I don't have either of these games so forgive me if I'm mistaken)

[A Black Falcon]

And yeah, the numbers in that FAQ are all too low.  I wonder, how did that happen... http://turbo.mindrec.com/files/gamesave.faq

That list has lots of detail... but on my system, all of the games I have are listed in Valis IV as having larger save file sizes as appear on this list.  Does anyone know why this would be?

There is a difference of 16 bytes for each file. This just happens to be the size of the header for a save file:
2 bytes for the size of the save data
2 bytes for checksum
2 bytes for "unique" ID
10 bytes for the save file name

gamesave.faq lists the size of the actual game save data stored by each game--without the save file header.

so I assume Order of the Griffon just gets the "size of save data" in each file's header and lists the results but does not add the additional 16 bytes consumed by the header itself...whereas Valis IV reports header+data size. (Note-I don't have either of these games so forgive me if I'm mistaken)

That's a good theory, but looking at those examples, the difference in block size varies between 11 and 19, so it's not 16 in every case... still though, one thing that's interesting is that the gamesave.faq page says that Griffon says the TG16 has a total of 1726 blocks, but Valis IV says that the total is, I believe, 2048.