Xak III: The Eternal Recurrence Localization Project!

[NightWolve]

This project began around Dec 15, 2001 after I gave up on Legend of Xanadu. In the 2-3 weeks prior, I gained a great deal of experience with hacking LoX, began development of Translation Station (a big part of the success of all my projects!), but soon realized 2 major difficulties that I wouldn't be able to overcome (You'd have to become as good as Bonknuts or EsperKnight to do so). So, I had to search for a more easier title to translate and Xak III was the lucky Action-RPG find. Since 2004, it stands at 100% complete for script/text work, but 0% on dubbing - it would need a translator to listen and transcribe all the voice acting and go from there, actor recruitment and so forth. Although, I do have the first cut-scene transcribed, it was in the game ROM oddly enough.

The developers of Xak III, thankfully, were lazy in conserving space within the game ROM & didn't use a text codec (compression) scheme - that's what you hope for primarily... Clear S-JIS DBCS (Double-Byte Character Encoding) per the standard of PCE CDs is used without codec tricks!! The 2nd quality that also made this game a prime candidate for easy hacking was that 1-byte ASCII/ANSI was supported for English characters. A working 8x16 font is already there, so by replacing 2-byte Japanese characters with 1-byte English characters, we double the available string length originally allocated!!! Of course that's not enough, but string pointers come into play and it worked out to where I never really trimmed translations because of the size of text blocks (with rare exceptions)! The quality of Paul England's translated results is another matter, however.

While the project is old, mostly complete minus dubbing, I made the thread here realizing I never had one for marketing and because I'm doing minor things I might release in the future. Am also open to someone revamping the script work if they take an interest, it could use lots more proofing and sprucing up. So yeah, the thread might help for new people who have no idea about the English patch and see this for the first time, plus, might as well have a spot to collect occasional feedback on an active forum.








The basic before/after magic of translation projects:





Downloads

* Xak III English Patch v1.00 (XakIII(US)v100.cab) - The latest release as of 2004. Text/Script = 100%, Dub = 0%.

* XakIII-Jap2EngScript.zip and XakIII-Script.zip - Entire Xak III script in HTML view for proof-reading, rewrites, etc.

* The Xak Hack - A Perl script to hack a saved state file to make your gold = 65,536 & EXP = 8,388,607!!! It works with saved state files from both YAME & MagicEngine. For ME, make sure compress_state_file=n in the PCE.INI otherwise it won't work. To use it, simply copy it & the saved state file to a separate directory, double click the Perl file, then copy the saved state file back to it's original location & reload it while playing the game. That's all there's to it - when gold runs low, do it again!!! Make sure you run it on a saved state file after you've started the game & actually have control of the main character in the beginning city. Also, you'll need to install the ActivePerl runtimes by activestate.com

Links

ysutopia.net/projects/xakiii/ - My Project Pages
ysutopia.net/projects/xak3/
retro-type.com/xyz/xak.htm - The Xak Series Tribute by SkyeWelse
http://www.pcengine.com.br/Xak3/xak_iii.htm - Review

[NightWolve]

PlaceHolder - History Log

1/19/2015

Finally made a home thread for this old project on PCEFX!

[NightWolve]

PlaceHolder - Tests/Tweaks

1/21/2015
ysutopia.net/images/xak3/font.html
10 fonts to choose from. Pick the best, lemme know, find more 8x16 fonts if you can!

1/19/2015

I've been playing with using a different font for the game and this is related to the Emerald Dragon project. Would be cool, if I can do it sometime, to make an font selector app for all my patched games of Xak III, Ys IV and eventually ED that lets you pick your own preferred font when pointed to the ISO/WAV/CUE image file set. So am looking to see what others think so far about some of these samples. The link has all of them so far.

ysutopia.net/images/xak3/font.html

SNES Lufia 8x16	SNES Lagoon 8x16

[seieienbu]

I like the snazzy look of the Lagoon font.  The script-like look of many characters, particularly for 'f', seems to have a good fit with respect to the mood of most RPGs.

[esteban]

DAMN.

THIS IS DAMN FINE.

It was inspiring to see this resurrected and read all of your comments (most of which seem promising).

[Dicer]

I like the snazzy look of the Lagoon font.  The script-like look of many characters, particularly for 'f', seems to have a good fit with respect to the mood of most RPGs.

Seconded...

[Lochlan]

I really like the Lufia font, but the Lagoon one is good too.

It would be amazing if this received a dub.

[esteban]

My vote: Lufia font.

[seieienbu]

It would be amazing if this received a dub.

Very much agreed on the dubbing.

With all the projects going on right now it's a very good time to be a PC Engine fan.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Hmm, I'm torn on the font, but I think I lean more towards Lufia.

[technozombie]

I like the Lufia font also, although it might be just out of nostalgia as I enjoyed that game as a kid.

[cjameslv]

I think the Lufia font looks alot smoother and fits nicer.

[NightWolve]

ysutopia.net/images/xak3/font.html

Alright guys, if you refresh the link, you'll now find 11 fonts (more to come) to choose from, including clean 8x16 rips from Neutopia and Ys Book I & II. So far, like most, I'm pretty set with the Lufia font as the default (ideally, with an app, you could pick the others) unless I or someone else can find something better. I thought Lagoon would be great when I inserted it, but the padding of the messagebox (or lack of padding) ruins it! That's the problem! Lufia font is a bit smaller, that's why it looks better.

DAMN.
THIS IS DAMN FINE.
It was inspiring to see this resurrected and read all of your comments (most of which seem promising).

Speak of the devil, esteban esteban!!! Just the man I was looking for.

Say, what if you used those whacky writing skills of yours to spruce up a script or two, Ys IV, Xak III, etc. ? Lemme elaborate - here are examples of my many disappointments with the script:

Ratok:Hey Bobby, what're you
doing here given your<\n>
distaste of weaponry?<\p>
<cls>
Bobby:Weapons can only be<\n>
used to kill people once one
can use them.<\p> Yes, only if<\n>
one can use them.<\0>
Ratok:I see.<\p>
<cls>
Bobby:I've grown up a bit,<\n>
even though it's nothing<\n>
compared to you.<\0>

So Bobby is sitting in a weapons shop, is known to be against weapons, and Ratok asks the question in surprise. The translation failed to be *localized* to what we know it should be. Think pacifist anti-gun/violence people. He wants to say something to the effect of guns don't kill people, people kill people, hence I changed my mind and don't mind sitting here with the owner of the weapons shop, etc. How should this be fixed in the general sense to get it properly localized to what he really means instead of the literal translation which doesn't quite cut it ? See the problem?

Here's the next one:

Ratok: ...Well, I gotta get going...<\0>
Mayor:I see...<\p> So, what<\n>
happened this time? Some<\n>
huge crap appeared?<\0>

OK, once again, Paul England did a failed localization by doing a literal translation. The mayor was pestering Ratok about getting married, yet Ratok is in a hurry having received a message that Farland Castle is under attack - this by a messenger (Tipero) that just died in his home with his mother... OK, naturally there's urgency in the air, he wants out of this conversation. The mayor senses this, and in a joking fashion is trying to convey "What's the rush ?", etc. You get the idea.

Thus, I localized it to "So, what happened this time? Some giant monster showed up?", but what would YOU do as far as picking a better expression for the joke he's trying to make to convey that he senses Ratok is in a hurry and wants to run off somewhere ?? THAT is the question!

Next:

Old Man:Hey, if it isn't<\n>
Grandma! You're still alive?<\p><brk>
Ratok:No, it's ME, Ratok!<\p><\n>
You've lost it completely lately...<\0>

So Ratok randomly runs into an old-timer in the town/city of Fearless and makes that kind of rude remark. Paul's literal translation once again. The set up is that the old-timer is blind as a bat and/or senile, thinks the person in front of him is his grandma and Ratok sarcastically facepalms/flames/owns/pwns him for it, you get the idea.

So yeah, Ratok's rude and curt voice just doesn't seem appropriate and so I tried to think of how he could convey that the old-timer is losing it a bit (his vision or mind), but somewhat more lighthearted so I changed it to a joke, this:

Old Man:Hey, if it isn't<\n>
Grandma! You're still alive?<\p><brk>
Ratok:No, it's ME, Ratok!<\p><\n>
You may not have lost all of
your marbles, but there sure
is a hole in the bag...<\0>

OK, so that may get some laughs, but I still think it may be too rude for that character and it's just unlikely he would be walking around his town/village disrespectfully speaking to his elders like that, so once again, WHAT WOULD YOU DO, ESTE ??

I always wanted to have a Working Designs feel to the scripts, but my role would be so tiring just post-editing, managing, programming, website work, etc. that I really had to rely on the translators. Paul England wasn't great as you can see, the criminal DeuceBag was better and I wouldn't have had results like this at least, but was himself a WD hater and so you weren't gonna get that kind of liberties-taking script out of him.

So, just a thought, este, now could be YOUR chance to make some history, get some of that great, whacky writing style of yours into these boring scripts and help bring them alive!!! WHAT SAYETH YOU, BROTHER ??? SHOW VICTOR IRELAND HOW IT'S DONE! HOW ABOUT IT ???

And all this is just a taste of the first town/city I looked over the past couple of days and was reminded why I found this to be the worst (and boring!) script/translation of all of my projects...

[Dicer]

Hmmm, I like that Semi font.

SHOW VICTOR IRELAND HOW IT'S DONE!

Do eeet este! 

It is nice and clean, that and Lufia still hold my vote.

[Daria]

I really like the Lufia font, but the Lagoon one is good too.

It would be amazing if this received a dub.

Lagoon has that funky italicized f though...

[esteban]

https://www.ysutopia.net/images/xak3/font.html

Alright guys, if you refresh the link, you'll now find 11 fonts (more to come) to choose from, including clean 8x16 rips from Neutopia and Ys Book I & II. So far, like most, I'm pretty set with the Lufia font as the default (ideally, with an app, you could pick the others) unless I or someone else can find something better. I thought Lagoon would be great when I inserted it, but the padding of the messagebox (or lack of padding) ruins it! That's the problem! Lufia font is a bit smaller, that's why it looks better.

DAMN.
THIS IS DAMN FINE.
It was inspiring to see this resurrected and read all of your comments (most of which seem promising).

Speak of the devil, esteban esteban!!! Just the man I was looking for.

Say, what if you used those whacky writing skills of yours to spruce up a script or two, Ys IV, Xak III, etc. ? Lemme elaborate - here are examples of my many disappointments with the script:

Ratok:Hey Bobby, what're you
doing here given your<\n>
distaste of weaponry?<\p>
<cls>
Bobby:Weapons can only be<\n>
used to kill people once one
can use them.<\p> Yes, only if<\n>
one can use them.<\0>
Ratok:I see.<\p>
<cls>
Bobby:I've grown up a bit,<\n>
even though it's nothing<\n>
compared to you.<\0>

So Bobby is sitting in a weapons shop, is known to be against weapons, and Ratok asks the question in surprise. The translation failed to be *localized* to what we know it should be. Think pacifist anti-gun/violence people. He wants to say something to the effect of guns don't kill people, people kill people, hence I changed my mind and don't mind sitting here with the owner of the weapons shop, etc. How should this be fixed in the general sense to get it properly localized to what he really means instead of the literal translation which doesn't quite cut it ? See the problem?

Here's the next one:

Ratok: ...Well, I gotta get going...<\0>
Mayor:I see...<\p> So, what<\n>
happened this time? Some<\n>
huge crap appeared?<\0>

OK, once again, Paul England did a failed localization by doing a literal translation. The mayor was pestering Ratok about getting married, yet Ratok is in a hurry having received a message that Farland Castle is under attack - this by a messenger (Tipero) that just died in his home with his mother... OK, naturally there's urgency in the air, he wants out of this conversation. The mayor senses this, and in a joking fashion is trying to convey "What's the rush ?", etc. You get the idea.

Thus, I localized it to "So, what happened this time? Some giant monster showed up?", but what would YOU do as far as picking a better expression for the joke he's trying to make to convey that he senses Ratok is in a hurry and wants to run off somewhere ?? THAT is the question!

Next:

Old Man:Hey, if it isn't<\n>
Grandma! You're still alive?<\p><brk>
Ratok:No, it's ME, Ratok!<\p><\n>
You've lost it completely lately...<\0>

So Ratok randomly runs into an old-timer in the town/city of Fearless and makes that kind of rude remark. Paul's literal translation once again. The set up is that the old-timer is blind as a bat and/or senile, thinks the person in front of him is his grandma and Ratok sarcastically facepalms/flames/owns/pwns him for it, you get the idea.

So yeah, Ratok's rude and curt voice just doesn't seem appropriate and so I tried to think of how he could convey that the old-timer is losing it a bit (his vision or mind), but somewhat more lighthearted so I changed it to a joke, this:

Old Man:Hey, if it isn't<\n>
Grandma! You're still alive?<\p><brk>
Ratok:No, it's ME, Ratok!<\p><\n>
You may not have lost all of
your marbles, but there sure
is a hole in the bag...<\0>

OK, so that may get some laughs, but I still think it may be too rude for that character and it's just unlikely he would be walking around his town/village disrespectfully speaking to his elders like that, so once again, WHAT WOULD YOU DO, ESTE ??

I always wanted to have a Working Designs feel to the scripts, but my role would be so tiring just post-editing, managing, programming, website work, etc. that I really had to rely on the translators. Paul England wasn't great as you can see, the criminal DeuceBag was better and I wouldn't have had results like this at least, but was himself a WD hater and so you weren't gonna get that kind of liberties-taking script out of him.

So, just a thought, este, now could be YOUR chance to make some history, get some of that great, whacky writing style of yours into these boring scripts and help bring them alive!!! WHAT SAYETH YOU, BROTHER ??? SHOW VICTOR IRELAND HOW IT'S DONE! HOW ABOUT IT ???

And all this is just a taste of the first town/city I looked over the past couple of days and was reminded why I found this to be the worst (and boring!) script/translation of all of my projects...

I am actually scared to try to tackle something like this. No joke.

I can at least try, though. But it seems like so much work just to understand the context...I don't know.

I have to think about it. Even if I were to say yes, I would have to finish up some stuff at my job first, before I could make time commitment.

Damn!

[SamIAm]

I have plenty on my plate as it is, but out of curiosity, I would love to see some of the original Japanese lines.

[NightWolve]

I have plenty on my plate as it is, but out of curiosity, I would love to see some of the original Japanese lines.

ysutopia.net/projects/xakiii/download/XakIII-Jap2EngScript.zip

Already in the Downloads section - Full/Total HTML view of script. Plenty of literal doozies in there for ya that I never fixed (nor translators). ;)

[SamIAm]

At a glance, the translating looks quite accurate most of the time, if a bit awkward and literal like you were saying. Is this a version that you've "punched up" a bit? I see some lines that aren't literal, but that fall within the realm of understandable liberties. Here's a curious example:

Japanese line: 大いなる災厄の予感がする。　ラトクよ、ファーランドへと急ぐのだ！
My straight literal version: I sense a great disaster...Ratok! [We/You] must hurry to Farland!
Paul England's translation: There's something in the air... Ratok, something is wrong at Farland Castle!

Make of that what you will.

Here's one of the examples you posted above. As I suspected, there's a mistake, although the Japanese original is an unusual kind of sentence and I can totally get why Paul was confused.

ラトク: ボビー、武器嫌いの君が、何だってこんな所に？
ボビー: 武器も使い方次第で、役にも立てば、人殺しの道具にもなる
ラトク: 「なるほど」
ボビー: 「僕だって、君ほどじゃないにしても、少しは成長したんだぜ」

My normal translation:
Ratok: Bobby? What are you doing here? You hate weapons!
Bobby: Weapons can be tools for murder, but they can also be used for good. It all depends on how they're used.
Ratok: Indeed, Bobby.
Bobby: I may not be as grown up as you, but I'm getting there.


Paul England's translation:
Ratok:Bobby, what're you doing here, even when you hate weapons and all?
Bobby:Weapons can only be used to kill people once one can use them. Yes, only if
one can use them.
Ratok:I see.
Bobby:I've grown up a bit, even though it's nothing compared to you.


My excessively literal translation:
Ratok: Bobby, what brings you, who hates weapons, to such a place?
Bobby: According to the way of using them, weapons can serve a purpose, and also they can be tools to kill people.
Ratok: So it is.
Bobby: Even I have grown up a little, regardless that it is not to your extent.


I'll check out some of the other lines later.

[NightWolve]

My normal translation:
Ratok: Bobby? What are you doing here? You hate weapons!
Bobby: Weapons can be tools for murder, but they can also be used for good. It all depends on how they're used.
Ratok: Indeed, Bobby.
Bobby: I may not be as grown up as you, but I'm getting there.

Aha! That's what it should be! Much better!!! That's a proper English localization!!

No Sam, only the last couple of days did I change a few lines like what you see in the screenshots. The HTML file you're looking at is mostly Paul England's work, exactly what's in the English patch now. I've always wanted more editors to spruce up the script, but none ever volunteered to seriously consider it.

I'm gonna save the translation you just did there above. You kinda know what Bobby is wanting to say, you must've seen it a million times in pop culture, but it's amazing how when put to the test, you can't quite recall exactly how it should be to repair the literal or failed translation when you know it's wrong somehow, but can't do much with it or it's too frustrating so you just move on.

[SamIAm]

Thanks. Yeah, I thought that line was funny. I've played a lot of RPGs in Japanese and there are a lot of patterns in the dialogs. When I see a literal translation, I can often sense the original Japanese lying behind it, but that one line just seemed off.

Here's my stab at that mayor's joke. Ratok has just said that he's leaving on a journey:

町長: 「・・そうか・・。で、今度はなんじゃ、でかい蟹でも現れたか？」

My translation:
You are, eh? What is it this time? 50-foot crabs? HAR!

Paul's translation:
Mayor:I see...So, what happened this time? A huge crab appeared?

Hyper-literal translation:
Mayor: I see...So, what is it this time. Did giant crabs appear or something?

(The HAR! is the kind of thing I'd only add if it matched the tone of the game itself.)


Hmm. By the way, the line after that is wrong:

ラトク: 「分からない。分からないから確かめたいんだ。   

My translation:
I don't know what it is. That's why I want to go see it for myself.

Paul's translation:
Ratok:I don't know and I'm certain that you don't either.

Hyper literal translation:
I don't know. Because I don't know what it is, I want to make certain of it.


This is also wrong:
町長: 「お前さんとお似合いの娘に心当りがあるでな・・・<\p>

My translation:
I know one young lady who might be just your type...

Paul's translation:
There's certain to be a bride befitting of you.

Hyper literal translation:
I have an idea for a girl who will suit you...

[NightWolve]

This is also wrong:
町長: 「お前さんとお似合いの娘に心当りがあるでな・・・<\p>

My translation:
I know one young lady who might be just your type...

Hyper literal translation:
I have an idea for a girl who will suit you...

Paul's translation:
There's certain to be a bride befitting of you.

Yeah, the mayor's referring to Ellis. Paul's expression is pretty wrong/off...

[technozombie]

This thread is full of awesome, I like seeing this back and forth about the script. Seeing Sam's translations I'm looking forward to seeing more your work in actual games.

[NightWolve]

I had a professional touch up some of the dialogue:

Ratok: ...Well, I gotta get going...<\0>
Mayor:Guess what?.<\p> I just pooped my pants!<\n>
Nice and squishy.<\n>
<\0>

So I didn't know what to make of BT here, but I was randomly peeking back into the Legend of Xanadu II thread and saw a minor debate about Working Designs which explained things. That poop joke actually is from Magic Knight Rayearth. Heh-heh. I take it BT was letting us know what he thinks about the Working Designs "style" in not so much words.

[SamIAm]

Well, I haven't had to think about editors very much. While I've completed four scripts, none of my translation projects have actually reached the final-beta stage due to hacking difficulties.
 

When it comes to editing and polishing, I'm pretty exhaustive myself, and I'm stubborn, too. It seems that each translation I do winds up going through three main phases, which I'll go ahead and explain. Keep in mind that I also make it a rule to play a game before I translate it.

1. J-E rote translation phase:
Here, I don't worry too much about anything other than just getting the damn lines into English. Trying to perfect things so early turns into a waste of time, anyway. Only the stuff that simply can't be translated in a direct way do I really mull over. While I don't leave things in a super literal state, I also don't take too much poetic license unless I have a really good idea. The point is that after this phase, I don't want to have to look at the Japanese very much.

2. Plain text editing phase:
Before any text gets inserted, I go through all the script files in the translation again to make sure that the English sounds natural, flows well, and is consistent. During this time, I don't look at the Japanese much unless I change something significantly. I also make doubly sure of the context of each scene as I edit, which is not always easy given how many scenes there typically are. In the end, this phase actually takes almost as much time as the first one.

3. In-game editing phase:
I play-test the game itself with the English inserted and edit according to how it actually looks. Believe it or not, I wind up changing a lot here, too. I think most people would be surprised at how different dialogue can look when it's actually displaying in a game compared to when it's in a plain text file. The movement of the characters and the way they're staged, the place of the scene in the game's structure, and even things like the music all contribute to how I think the dialogue should play out. I suppose the biggest thing that I change here is the length of the lines, since it's only in this phase that I can get an accurate sense of each scene's "rhythm".

So, on one hand, I agree that it's generally a good idea to have someone edit and proofread your writing. I have bad habits and limitations like anyone else, after all. I also agree that two heads can be better than one when it comes to thinking up good solutions for tough spots in translations. I may be stubborn, but when someone comes up with an idea that I like, I don't have any qualms about using it (and giving credit, too).

On the other hand, though, I think that for translation projects like these, recruiting a ground-floor editor is likely to cause more problems than it fixes. If you don't know Japanese, there's not much you can do in the first phase, and if you don't know the game, there's not much you can do in the second phase. Unfortunately, if you don't know Japanese, you probably don't know the game either, and so there's a really big barrier right from the start. Not to mention, if you know Japanese and you know the game and you want to write for it, then why aren't you translating the game yourself right now? This is definitely part of why fan translators go solo most of the time.

If someone wants to help in the third phase, that's great, but like I said, I'm stubborn. I'm not married to my lines, and I'll replace them if I like someone's suggestion more. However, if I don't like the suggestion, I'm going to flatly say "no", and that sounds like a recipe for drama to me. This may sound arrogant, but I don't want to spend time arguing about nuance when I'm pretty confident in my ability to understand the Japanese and translate it into "localized" English dialogue. Frankly speaking, if I do get an editor, it would have to be someone who would be fine with only ever making suggestions and me getting my way pretty much all the time.

Don't get me wrong, I take it way seriously when someone tells me something I wrote sucks. I mean, I stop just short of sobbing in the bathroom. It's just that after all the work of the first two phases, I still want executive control, especially if the editor doesn't know Japanese.

What I have had in mind is to recruit a few people to play-test my translations before they're released, and to invite them to let me know about any lines they think are flat/awkward/yucky/whatever. Of course, if they have any really killer suggestions, that's cool, too.

Princess Crown and Spriggan MK2 are the two games I've done where I've been able to play-test them, thereby completing all three phases. I'm pretty happy with the results. They aren't perfect, but I think that they are well above average for fan translations.

[SkyeWelse]

Wow, nice to see Xak III getting looked at again. I'm no font expert when it comes to what works best in games, but so far I think I like the Lufia font examples the most as they are the easiest to read. This translation project always seemed kind of unfinished to me since most of what happens in the Ending sequence is an animated fmv with Japanese voices that were not translated in a script file as far as I can remember. I remember being a pretty important ending, because it doesn't just end Xak III, it ends the entire Xak series spanning roughly 5 games if you include Tower of Gazzel and Fray in Magical Adventure, and ultimately explains what happens to their world and what is going to change for everyone going forward.

In any case, I think an English dub in the same vein as the Ys IV dubbing project would work well for this. I don't think there were too many voiceover cutscenes in the game so it wouldn't be as large of an undertaking as the Ys IV: The Dawn of Ys project. I was cast for that project as Lefance, but I probably put everyone who ever heard it to sleep, ha!

As far as the script goes, Nightwolve do you think it would be possible still to change the area location name of Mt. Fuji to (Mt. Ginganul / Ginganuru Mountain) ギンガヌール山 ? This was one that always stood out to me as needing to be corrected. I think you told at one time that it might bave been changed to a smaller word because of space contraints, but I could be wrong.

SamIAm, I just checked out the Princess Crown translation project. That's very cool to learn that there is an open project for that. I've always wanted to play it and I have the original game sitting on my shelf doing absolutely nothing and waiting for a time (yes, it has become self-aware) to be used again.

Good luck for both of these projects!

-Thomas

[esteban]

Well, I haven't had to think about editors very much. While I've completed four scripts, none of my translation projects have actually reached the final-beta stage due to hacking difficulties.
 

When it comes to editing and polishing, I'm pretty exhaustive myself, and I'm stubborn, too. It seems that each translation I do winds up going through three main phases, which I'll go ahead and explain. Keep in mind that I also make it a rule to play a game before I translate it.

1. J-E rote translation phase:
Here, I don't worry too much about anything other than just getting the damn lines into English. Trying to perfect things so early turns into a waste of time, anyway. Only the stuff that simply can't be translated in a direct way do I really mull over. While I don't leave things in a super literal state, I also don't take too much poetic license unless I have a really good idea. The point is that after this phase, I don't want to have to look at the Japanese very much.

2. Plain text editing phase:
Before any text gets inserted, I go through all the script files in the translation again to make sure that the English sounds natural, flows well, and is consistent. During this time, I don't look at the Japanese much unless I change something significantly. I also make doubly sure of the context of each scene as I edit, which is not always easy given how many scenes there typically are. In the end, this phase actually takes almost as much time as the first one.

3. In-game editing phase:
I play-test the game itself with the English inserted and edit according to how it actually looks. Believe it or not, I wind up changing a lot here, too. I think most people would be surprised at how different dialogue can look when it's actually displaying in a game compared to when it's in a plain text file. The movement of the characters and the way they're staged, the place of the scene in the game's structure, and even things like the music all contribute to how I think the dialogue should play out. I suppose the biggest thing that I change here is the length of the lines, since it's only in this phase that I can get an accurate sense of each scene's "rhythm".

So, on one hand, I agree that it's generally a good idea to have someone edit and proofread your writing. I have bad habits and limitations like anyone else, after all. I also agree that two heads can be better than one when it comes to thinking up good solutions for tough spots in translations. I may be stubborn, but when someone comes up with an idea that I like, I don't have any qualms about using it (and giving credit, too).

On the other hand, though, I think that for translation projects like these, recruiting a ground-floor editor is likely to cause more problems than it fixes. If you don't know Japanese, there's not much you can do in the first phase, and if you don't know the game, there's not much you can do in the second phase. Unfortunately, if you don't know Japanese, you probably don't know the game either, and so there's a really big barrier right from the start. Not to mention, if you know Japanese and you know the game and you want to write for it, then why aren't you translating the game yourself right now? This is definitely part of why fan translators go solo most of the time.

If someone wants to help in the third phase, that's great, but like I said, I'm stubborn. I'm not married to my lines, and I'll replace them if I like someone's suggestion more. However, if I don't like the suggestion, I'm going to flatly say "no", and that sounds like a recipe for drama to me. This may sound arrogant, but I don't want to spend time arguing about nuance when I'm pretty confident in my ability to understand the Japanese and translate it into "localized" English dialogue. Frankly speaking, if I do get an editor, it would have to be someone who would be fine with only ever making suggestions and me getting my way pretty much all the time.

Don't get me wrong, I take it way seriously when someone tells me something I wrote sucks. I mean, I stop just short of sobbing in the bathroom. It's just that after all the work of the first two phases, I still want executive control, especially if the editor doesn't know Japanese.

What I have had in mind is to recruit a few people to play-test my translations before they're released, and to invite them to let me know about any lines they think are flat/awkward/yucky/whatever. Of course, if they have any really killer suggestions, that's cool, too.

Princess Crown and Spriggan MK2 are the two games I've done where I've been able to play-test them, thereby completing all three phases. I'm pretty happy with the results. They aren't perfect, but I think that they are well above average for fan translations.

Intriguing to hear about the workflow and the process that you follow.

[NightWolve]

As far as the script goes, Nightwolve do you think it would be possible still to change the area location name of Mt. Fuji to (Mt. Ginganul / Ginganuru Mountain) ギンガヌール山 ? This was one that always stood out to me as needing to be corrected. I think you told at one time that it might bave been changed to a smaller word because of space contraints, but I could be wrong.

Yeah, the text block for locations in the game was pretty packed I recall, so I used a well-known mountain name that was only 4 letters.

Good to have ya aboard! I didn't think you'd register so soon, if ever, after I mentioned this recent activity here. I got D (AKA D-BOY/Derrick) registered here too now!

[SkyeWelse]

If it has to be a 4 letter word, hmm, I guess I would go with "Ging" or "Gnul / Gnur" short for Ginganul / Ginganuru rather than Mr. Fuji, if only for the reason that it stands out in a bad way and draws attention to itself as not being a correct translation.

But anyhow, yep! I'm here. I don't usually join too many communities, just hang around the old haunting grounds of Ancient Land of Ys for the most part, but this seems like a nice place for anything PC-Engine and I do enjoy this system a lot. I own a Duo RX and I hope to get it modded one of these days to do some extra stuff. : )

That reminds me I need to play Frozen Utopia's Mysterious Song one of these days. I do own a copy of that. I'm still hoping that they finish Neutopia III as well as I'd LOVE to play that the most. : )

-Thomas

[NightWolve]

Well, as a favor, I finished preparing an ISO/WAV/CUE image file set of Xak III for someone with 1) the Lufia font and 2) some fixes of dialogue for the first town (Sam's included). If anybody else wants the download link, you can PM me. Alright, so I'm back to work on Emerald Dragon, looking at the text codec right now and am consulting with David about it, etc. The codec is almost the same as Ys IV, except for minor differences because the compressed text blocks don't have 3 header bytes to indicate compression type (1 byte) and size of block (2 bytes).

[ParanoiaDragon]

If it has to be a 4 letter word, hmm, I guess I would go with "Ging" or "Gnul / Gnur" short for Ginganul / Ginganuru rather than Mr. Fuji, if only for the reason that it stands out in a bad way and draws attention to itself as not being a correct translation.

But anyhow, yep! I'm here. I don't usually join too many communities, just hang around the old haunting grounds of Ancient Land of Ys for the most part, but this seems like a nice place for anything PC-Engine and I do enjoy this system a lot. I own a Duo RX and I hope to get it modded one of these days to do some extra stuff. : )

That reminds me I need to play Frozen Utopia's Mysterious Song one of these days. I do own a copy of that. I'm still hoping that they finish Neutopia III as well as I'd LOVE to play that the most. : )

-Thomas

I wouldn't expect Neutopia 3 anytime soon if ever unfortunately.  At the moment, I'm working on music for Mega Man 1, & then will probably go back to Dragon Warrior next if not Jungle Bros.  Just depends on timing on when we are able to start doing more with FU projects.