Over rated, under appreciated?

[lord_cack]

I hear alot of "Dracula X, man thats over rated. Great but over rated." Same with a ton of games. I mean we go out of our way to buy them, play them, own them. Then complain about certain aspects of our hobby. Its kind of self defeating in a way.

Anyway, on with the question. What is the most overrated and the most under appreciated games. I don't really have an asnwer because I don't think many of the games I have played are over rated. I like the entire line up of Turbo/PC Engine games I have played....OK not all of them...Ballistic sucked...and others....but they down right sucked. So I am not talking about bad games....anyway what do you think....

[OldRover]

I don't believe DraculaX was very overrated, honestly...I think it really does earn every ounce of praise it gets because I can't think of a more solid production with such high replay value.

I can think of a couple of underappreciated titles though, and here they are, and why:

Dead Moon: not a lot of people like this game because they say it's "uninspired"...sure, simple level names and your basic shooter gameplay. But it's a very fun game with a great soundtrack for a card and from a technical point of view, the graphics effects are awesome for this console (not many PCE games pull off this kind of parallax).
Cosmic Fantasy 2: while the US version might have been stripped down in terms of gameplay (like enemies without magic, wtf??), CF2 is a shining example of how to write an RPG storyline: the characters were very "real" and the story was flawlessly told (Square could learn a thing or two here). Play it for the story if not for anything else; it's well worth it.

[D-Lite]

I don't believe DraculaX was very overrated, honestly...I think it really does earn every ounce of praise it gets because I can't think of a more solid production with such high replay value.

I can think of a couple of underappreciated titles though, and here they are, and why:

Dead Moon: not a lot of people like this game because they say it's "uninspired"...sure, simple level names and your basic shooter gameplay. But it's a very fun game with a great soundtrack for a card and from a technical point of view, the graphics effects are awesome for this console (not many PCE games pull off this kind of parallax).
Cosmic Fantasy 2: while the US version might have been stripped down in terms of gameplay (like enemies without magic, wtf??), CF2 is a shining example of how to write an RPG storyline: the characters were very "real" and the story was flawlessly told (Square could learn a thing or two here). Play it for the story if not for anything else; it's well worth it.

I completely agree with you on all counts.

I love Dead Moon.  It's the HuCard I always use to test my region mods because it's fantastic.  Somewhat uninspired to be sure, but the graphics are great and the control is spot-on.

And Cosmic Fantasy 2 is probably my favorite RPG on the system.  Not Ys I&II *gasps*

[jlued686]

CF2 was the first RPG I ever played all the way through.  I thought it was brilliant at the time with a great story.  I tried playing through it again a few months back (see the TG forum), but got midway through the Babette part and lost interest.  

As far as "over rated" goes, dare I say Bonk's Adventure?  Don't get me wrong, it's one of my favorite games of all time.  But when it's compared to other certain platformers of its day (especially ones starring Italian plumbers), it seems slightly...shallow.  I know!  I'm a blasphemer!

But seriously, I love Bonk.

[esteban]

As far as "over rated" goes, dare I say Bonk's Adventure?  Don't get me wrong, it's one of my favorite games of all time.  But when it's compared to other certain platformers of its day (especially ones starring Italian plumbers), it seems slightly...shallow.  I know!  I'm a blasphemer!

But seriously, I love Bonk.

Yeah, I love Bonk, but it wouldn't make the list of super-duper platformers.  Personally, I wish the Bonk games were much more difficult... then they'd fare better, IMO.

OVER-RATED:
Kaze-Kiri -- well, opinion is usually split down the middle on this one...
Shubinman III -- sorry. i want to love it...

UNDER-APPRECIATED:
Wonderboy III: Monster Lair -- this game is friggin' amazing: perfect blend of platformer / cute-em-up / run-n-gun hybrid with a kick-ass soundtrack. Fans of Adventure Island and the first wonderboy should give this another chance!  Excellent 2-player co-op insanity!
Why it fails to attract fans: It suffers because folks tend to prefer the established genres and this game only appeals to folks who really like all three genres.

Somer Assault -- awesome puzzle - action - shooter hybrid. We need more games like this!
Why it fails to attract fans: Again, this trangresses a few genres and turns most folks off.  BUT it is really a perfect balance of puzzle-solving, shooting, and "platforming" (you need good reflexes and timing to do what you need to do).
 
Veigues Tactical Gladiator -- powering-up your mech, the punch / gun / chest cannon, hovering ability, minimalistic soundtrack that is still catchy... i love this game.
Why it fails to attract fans: Old-skool gameplay lacks appeal... seems kinda boring to most folks?  Boss fights are somewhat uninspired.

Sidearms Special CD -- I know folks think this is generic gameplaywise (same thing is often said about Veigues), but I really dig old skool shooters. Plus the CD version has a kool special mode!
why it fails to attract fans: the power-up system is straight out of 1943, which folks today might find annoying (I must admit it worked better in 1943). Bosses are somewhat uninspired and recycled.

[lord_cack]

Somer Assault -- awesome puzzle - action - shooter hybrid. We need more games like this!
Why it fails to attract fans: Again, this trangresses a few genres and turns most folks off.  BUT it is really a perfect balance of puzzle-solving, shooting, and "platforming" (you need good reflexes and timing to do what you need to do).
 
Veigues Tactical Gladiator -- powering-up your mech, the punch / gun / chest cannon, hovering ability, minimalistic soundtrack that is still catchy... i love this game.
Why it fails to attract fans: Old-skool gameplay lacks appeal... seems kinda boring to most folks?  Boss fights are somewhat uninspired.

I love Somer Assault, it is a bit to shallow on the shooter end for me. I would have liked alittle more bang. But the Puzzel and Platform aspects were very well balanced. I would say its a little underrated for sure...

Veigues was just to clunky for me. I liked the large sprites and all (although that in and of itself hampers the game). I alike alot of the aspects of the game, but to me what brought the whole thing down wasn't the Old Skool Play, its what the clunky play....

[esteban]

yes, i can see how veigues might be clunky... but when I play it, the big pile of junk moves gracefully!  i'm serious!  I think I've played this game way too much over the years.

Keranu, didn't I convince you to check out Veigues? Or was that someone else?  Anyway, they weren't too impressed with it.

VEIGUES RULES, you bastards

[CrackTiger]

I don't have the time to list what immediately comes to mind off the top of my head, but how about these-

OVER-RATED:


Kaze-Kiri: if it were as common as Keith Courage everyone would be asking where the gameplay is. Bravoman also has a number of moves, but his game is still way better than this... -and the aesthetics are nothing special.

Shubinman III: I've mentioned before or elsewhere how underwhelmed I was with this game. I did only first try it within the last few years, but the gameplay appears non-existent, the sound jumbled & almost buggy and the visuals consist of lame art with a decent transfer.

Cosmic Fantasy 2: I liked it back in the day and still appreciate it since it is a Turbo game and WD's awful "translation" actually fits here(but nowhere else). But the game needs to have the hour-long turn-taking boss fights fixed at the very least. If I remember correctly, WD fucked this game by "fixing" it like they "fixed" Eternal Blue. Still, this game would be in this list if everyone didn't rate it so high.

Magical Chase: it doesn't feature 256 colors onscreen(no Turbo/PCE game does) but it is a more or less a Super Deformed Lords Of Thunder. Another game few would care much about if it was packed in with the original TG16 and given a crappy american comic. Again, I still love it like pretty much all PCE/Turbo games, but its way too over rated.

Beyond Shadowgate: Now this is the KING of over rated Trurbo games. Again, it not only doesn't feature 512 or 256 simultaneous colors, it actually has only 16 colors or less in the bg's and the worst amature sprites and ugly english art around(except the bg's). Its short, side scrolling and has some of tthe worst endings of any Turbo games. Still worth playing through once as a Turbo game, but don't believe any of the crazies who tell you that it defies the specs of the system.

Sapphire: Similar to Beyond Shadowgate in crazy rumours, but is actually a good solid game, but not really great. First of all, although we here the stories less frequently now that the Internet has caught on, it does not use the processing power of the Arcade Card to push realtime 3D graphics that rivals early Playstation & Saturn games. The '3D' portions are a poor-man's DK Country. Stills looks nice enough and is moderately fun as a CD2 or SCD game. I don't know where the 18 Megs of RAM is being used though and once again, if Forgotten Worlds traded publishing places with this game, it'd just be another shhoter.

Macross 2036: Another decent shooter that was blown out of proportion more so back in the day. Take away the Macross license and we'd have never heard of it.

Air Zonk: I love it as much as anyone but the gameplay isn't very good.






UNDER-APPRECIATED:


Golden Axe: it's not the greatest game ever made nor the best port, but not nearly as bad as most people who turn it on once and condemn it after 5 minutes will tell you. And it's greatest shortcoming is the limited gameplay of the original.

Final Lap Twin: A fun arcade racer and great little RPG. The last race is still too tuff though.

Tengai Makyo Series, particularly Kabuki Den: Even if these games received the praise out side Japan as they do inside, they'd still be under rated.

Farjius Neo Metal Fantasy: Such an amazing RPG with unbelievably boss graphics. It big, fun, aesthetically great, but even with my walkthrough on GameFAQs, am I the only outside of Japan to actually play this game through?

Side Arms & Side Arms Special: One of the better(or my fav) Capcom arcade games in it's time. Afterplaying the original on MAME again the other day, it actually looks arcade superior with it's scrolling stars versus the arcade's static bg's. Plus, like Golden Axe, you get another redone arcade CD soundtrack.

Super Darius: Even though the gameplay suffers from the cut from 3 screens to one, in that you don't have much room to dodge many of the screen filling attacks, its still awesome and otherwise arcade perfect. The real kind of arcade perfect, graphics and sound(and gameplay). Also one of the best game soundtracks ever.

Strider: More so than Golden Axe, its not that bad a port. Also more so than Golden Axe, the original version was limited gameplay wise. What we do get is graphics translated from the arcade instead of the Genesis/Megadrive's simplified completely redrawn bg's. If all you care about is graphics, then I don't know why you'd get so excited about the original in the first place.  But this one still looks good and plays as good as a Strider port can. Plus another classic arcade soundtrack boosted by CD.

Conan Boy Of Future: Even I haven't taken the time to play through it, but from what little I've seen it looks like a great platformer on a system severely lacking platformers.



I love the games that I seem to be taking jabs at as over-rated, and only point out potential shortcomings in such a context.

[lord_cack]

Cosmic Fantasy 2: I liked it back in the day and still appreciate it since it is a Turbo game and WD's awful "translation" actually fits here(but nowhere else). But the game needs to have the hour-long turn-taking boss fights fixed at the very least. If I remember correctly, WD fucked this game by "fixing" it like they "fixed" Eternal Blue. Still, this game would be in this list if everyone didn't rate it so high.

Magical Chase: it doesn't feature 256 colors onscreen(no Turbo/PCE game does) but it is a more or less a Super Deformed Lords Of Thunder. Another game few would care much about if it was packed in with the original TG16 and given a crappy american comic. Again, I still love it like pretty much all PCE/Turbo games, but its way too over rated.

Beyond Shadowgate: Now this is the KING of over rated Trurbo games. Again, it not only doesn't feature 512 or 256 simultaneous colors, it actually has only 16 colors or less in the bg's and the worst amature sprites and ugly english art around(except the bg's). Its short, side scrolling and has some of tthe worst endings of any Turbo games. Still worth playing through once as a Turbo game, but don't believe any of the crazies who tell you that it defies the specs of the system.

I agree with Cosmic Fantasy 2 not to mention that if you take out the cinematics, the game is bearly 16 bit quality, atleast I think.

Magical Chase, I would probably say that this game is the MOST overrated game out ther. People pay incredible amounts of money for a game that looks like Zonk and plays like Lords of Thunder. I mean really, get those 2 games and save yourself about $500...(I think this game changes my original post about me not having an opinion...this game is way overrated...)

Beyond Shadowgate hmmmm...Most of the things you brought up were cosmetic. But, the real reason this game is special is that it does a good job at telling its story and the game is funny as hell. There are few games, across the board, that pull off funny without crossing the line into cheesy....I mean come on...You can beat the final boss with a Paddle Ball...THATS GREAT!! I admit it looses a little due to the short playtime. Of course, I can say its not overrated, cause I got my copy back when it came out and I don't have to pay $110-$140 for a copy so...yeah factor in that price...I see your point....

UNDER-APPRECIATED:


Final Lap Twin: A fun arcade racer and great little RPG. The last race is still too tuff though.

Tengai Makyo Series, particularly Kabuki Den: Even if these games received the praise out side Japan as they do inside, they'd still be under rated.

Farjius Neo Metal Fantasy: Such an amazing RPG with unbelievably boss graphics. It big, fun, aesthetically great, but even with my walkthrough on GameFAQs, am I the only outside of Japan to actually play this game through?

Conan Boy Of Future: Even I haven't taken the time to play through it, but from what little I've seen it looks like a great platformer on a system severely lacking platformers.

Final Lap Twin, if you look at the other racing games at the time this game was great, also the RPG element raises it to another level.....and yeah, I never could beat that last guy....

I think that alot of import titles are way overlooked (but seeing how I did post this in the PC Engine/SuperGraphx section... ) but I don't know if I would say they are underrated....I can't speak/read/write japanese so a game like that is underrated to me...its impossible to know (until I either learn Japanese or its Translated that is   )

As for Conan Future Boy, I have had the chance to buy this game and never have because....well I don't want to buy crap and I know nothing about this game, so without changing the subject...can someone who has played this game tell me if it is good or not?

[lord_cack]

To comment on my last post, I think that the price of most "hyped" games is way out of preportion and make a large number of titles "overrated". Dungeon Explorer II (I mean take out the cinematics you got Dungeon Explorer...would you pay over $100 for that...), I mentioned Magical Chase, US Bomberman '93...get a copy of Bomberman '94 for way less and its way better, the amount of japanese required is very minimul, US Bonk III and Air Zonk...I mean when a game still costs $50+...for just the card, thats crazy (to me anyway )...

So I guess that when you factor in current cost, a lot of games are overrated, but take at original cost, games like Sapphire, Beyond Shadowgate, Magical Chase don't quite seem so overrated...

[GUTS]

Conan Boy of Future sucks, it's a weak ass platformer with weak graphics and bad control.  Get Blood Gear instead and prepare for ultimate righteousness.

[dj898]

As for Conan Future Boy, I have had the chance to buy this game and never have because....well I don't want to buy crap and I know nothing about this game, so without changing the subject...can someone who has played this game tell me if it is good or not?

as a general rule of thumb, any anime/tv series based title is bound to be crap/sh!t with only few exceptions... :p
I loved mirai syounen conan when it was aired though...

[OldRover]

The last race in Final Lap Twin's Quest mode is very difficult but certainly not impossible. You just have to pretty much be a flawless driver to pull it off. It helps to NOT use the most powerful engine (so your tires have more control). But I totally forgot about that game...it is one of the most underrated out there. What a unique concept it has in it.

[xolik]

Golden Axe: it's not the greatest game ever made nor the best port, but not nearly as bad as most people who turn it on once and condemn it after 5 minutes will tell you. And it's greatest shortcoming is the limited gameplay of the original.

Hey! It gave it a good seven minutes before writing it off!  





 

[GUTS]

Oh man I remember it taking me the better part of a day to finally beat that damn last boss in Final Lap Twin.  I had to retry that race SO many times.  Good times though, that was definitely one of the coolest games ever.

[Keranu]

yes, i can see how veigues might be clunky... but when I play it, the big pile of junk moves gracefully!  i'm serious!  I think I've played this game way too much over the years.

Keranu, didn't I convince you to check out Veigues? Or was that someone else?  Anyway, they weren't too impressed with it.

VEIGUES RULES, you bastards

I'm not sure, I just know you talk ab00t the game a lot. I have had the game for a year or so and try to enjoy it as much as you do, but I just can't get into it that much. I remember I found it much more fun the first time I played it. I do really dig the powering up different parts of your robot in that game along with some pretty decent graphics and music. I just can't tolerate the feel of the game too much though. I'll have to try beating this game sometime because I tend to enjoy games more after I beat them so I can look back at them .

[PCEngineHell]

Yea,I nod my head in agreement that Sapphire was not that special.It was good,but not perfect,wonderful,awe-inspiring,jaw dropping perfect.
Strider is however really good.The flicker was the only bad thing to me,and it wasnt that bad.Even the Genesis version has flicker.
I have a burned bin/cue copy of both,as I will not pay more then 80 bucks for a game like Sapphire,and it goes for over 300 usually,but Strider I do plan to buy in July.These 2 are the only games I have that are not originals,so I dont list them in my collection list.
On the Genesis,Robocop vs Terminator.
Hardly anyone talked about this game,yet it was fantastic.The graphics and sound set the mood,the blood was nice,there was a code for more and lady killers,The bosses were very cool.
I place this one at the top/best of my Genesis games.

[ParanoiaDragon]

I love Sapphire, & Kaze Kiri, & Veigues, & Beyond Shadowgate, & lots of games that are considered underated, or overated.  Yes, some of those games are overated, but, I couldn't care less, I love what I love.  Sapphire is a solid 2 player shooter with a great soundtrack & some neat effects you don't really see on the Turbo.  Beyond Shadowgate kicks arse, one of my favorite all time games!  Veigues is just a great solid game, get's a little too tuff for my blood.  Final Lap Twin rocks, especially the rpg, I've wanted to do something similar, maybe someday with the Fronzen Utopia team   I didn't think that the last boss was so hard, it's been awhile since I played it, I remember giving my car the ultimate of everything.

Kaze Kiri, is overated, but I still love the game, sure, I wish they did more with it, but, whatever, it's still great!  Strider is great, not as good as it could of been on the Turbo, but it's still great.  I've seen pictures side by side & the Turbo version is deffinitly more detailed.

Conan is an ok game, especially since I only played 10 bucks for it, I would be willing to pay more.  Oh, on Sapphire, I'd pay around 100 US at most for it, so I'll probably never own it.  As for DE 2, it's a great game, far greater then the first game, so even without the cinemas, I love it.  Cosmic Fantasy 2, great game, by a great team, I get sick about people bashing WD, I couldn't care less what they changed, I've loved everything they put out, & atleast we get these games.  I'd rather get the games they've given us, chopped up into pieces, then nothing at all!  I love their humor as well.  I just want to enjoy games in english, even if they are badly acted or whatever.  Sure, I'd love for the games to be translated better, but, oh well, that's life.  If the worst company in the world brought over the Far East of Eden series, I'd be greatful for the fact that we got them in english, with horrible artwork, horrible voice acting, etc, etc.  I'm a very tolerant gamer

Air Zonk, one of my favorite shooter series, yes, I said series, the sequal is great too, it's not the best, but it's still a great game.  Macross 2036 is a great game, with or without the liscense.  I actually hated Robotech back in the day(I was a Transformers guy, but I have the whole Robotech series on DVD now), so the Macross & Robotech, meant nothing to me at the time, it was just a great game.  I didn't even bother getting ELS, cuz at the time, Macross just didn't do it for me, things change over time ofcoarse

[akamichi]

One game I think is suprisingly fun and interesting is Emerald Dragon.  From what I understand, it is/was a highly regarded RPG in Japan back in the day.  Apparently it was a big deal that it was ported to the PCE.  It was initially released on PC (not sure which platform, but probably the major ones back in the day).

Anyway, I got the game fairly cheap and when I started playing it, I found that I just couldn't put it down.  I know RPGs are hard to get into when there's the language barrier, but I really like this game.  Emerald Dragon usually isn't mentioned when people talk about PCE RPGs, but I think people who can handle Tengai series or Startling Odessey can play through this game just fine.

I don't think there ever was an English version (official or fan translated).  But it would be cool if this was translated.

The game starts out with a tribe of dragons spotting a wrecked ship off the coast.  A little girl (about 5 years old) was rescued from the ship by one of the dragons.  You play a child dragon who befriends the girl.  The girl lives with the dragons for about 10 or so years when she decides to return to her land.  The main char tells her that if she's ever in trouble to call him and he'll come to help.  Well, guess what happens.

That description doesn't do the game justice.  I also left out a number of details to get people interested.  The graphics are pretty good and colorful.  The game also uses the arcade card to reduce load times between areas.  It's not really noticeable unless you go between two areas frequently.

Great game.  Good story.

[lord_cack]

.
On the Genesis,Robocop vs Terminator.
Hardly anyone talked about this game,yet it was fantastic.The graphics and sound set the mood,the blood was nice,there was a code for more and lady killers,The bosses were very cool.
I place this one at the top/best of my Genesis games.

I have this game as well, the controls are sloppy and the animation is stiff so I think that game isn't very good. OK graphics though.

[Keranu]

I agree with you about Emerald Dragon, Akamichi, although I haven't played through the game yet. I played over an hour of it a few years ago and thought it was awesome. I have a copy of the game now and I am thinking about playing through it sometime. A person I talk to on the internet has this page up somewhere that was translating some of the game. I'll have to look for the page again or ask him for it.

[PCEngineHell]

.
On the Genesis,Robocop vs Terminator.
Hardly anyone talked about this game,yet it was fantastic.The graphics and sound set the mood,the blood was nice,there was a code for more and lady killers,The bosses were very cool.
I place this one at the top/best of my Genesis games.

I have this game as well, the controls are sloppy and the animation is stiff so I think that game isn't very good. OK graphics though.

Did you expect it to be as fluid as lets say SF Alpha/Zero in the frames department?I never had a problem with the controls.And during my stint of running a game store,I have never heard of anyone complaining about the controls or anim. frames.Collectors and gamers alike like to buy it.The Snes version however did suck.

[akamichi]

I agree with you about Emerald Dragon, Akamichi, although I haven't played through the game yet. I played over an hour of it a few years ago and thought it was awesome. I have a copy of the game now and I am thinking about playing through it sometime. A person I talk to on the internet has this page up somewhere that was translating some of the game. I'll have to look for the page again or ask him for it.

Cool.  I did a quick Google search and this page is about the only one I could find.  I managed to snag the SFC version and I've been playing that one recently.  I only played about an hour to two into it and it seems to be pretty much the same as the PCE ver except the town and locations seem to be laid out differently.  So far the story is pretty much the same.

If I'm not mistaken, the SFC version came out after the PCE version because it seems the SFC ver has some extra stuff in it.  Nothing particularly big, but in the PCE ver, when you travel to the land of humans, you just show up near a town.  No transition at all.  In the SFC version, there's a cutscene that shows you flying as a ball of light to the land of humans.  Then you land at a place that looks like it was a portal.

It was kinda weird when I played the PCE version the first time because I wasn't sure what I was supposed to do, but luckily you're pretty much right outside of the first town.

[lord_cack]

.
On the Genesis,Robocop vs Terminator.
Hardly anyone talked about this game,yet it was fantastic.The graphics and sound set the mood,the blood was nice,there was a code for more and lady killers,The bosses were very cool.
I place this one at the top/best of my Genesis games.

I have this game as well, the controls are sloppy and the animation is stiff so I think that game isn't very good. OK graphics though.

Did you expect it to be as fluid as lets say SF Alpha/Zero in the frames department?I never had a problem with the controls.And during my stint of running a game store,I have never heard of anyone complaining about the controls or anim. frames.Collectors and gamers alike like to buy it.The Snes version however did suck.

It could have been better, thats all I'm saying, goodness everything seems so defensive. I doubt that anyone would say that Robocop versus Terminator was the picture of excellent controls and the animation.

[PCEngineHell]

Alien Soldier. One of my friends bought it for over 200 bucks,he thinks it was worth it,do any of you?

[RCduck7]

Alien Soldier. One of my friends bought it for over 200 bucks,he thinks it was worth it,do any of you?

No.

You can get the pal version on Ebay for half the price.

Myself i bought the game about 3 years back for peanuts and didn't even realise it was worth that much back then.

[PCEngineHell]

He didnt buy the Pal UK cart,he bought the Japan one because of the title screen being different or something,with some kind of message about the Burning 68000 heart of fire.

[doomfarer75]

Crucify me...but TV Sports Basketball has supplied my friend and I an endless 15 year rivalry...you learn to appreciate its deficiencies and accept them....Plus, its not "NBA-certified"  which you can't get anymore.  If only I had convinced Mindrec to do a SCD version with some updates....

[lord_cack]

Damn you to the depths of hel....wait, I played the shit out of TV Sports Basketball and it never bothered me, I don't like sports games that much so I didn't care about the little things....

[RCduck7]

He didnt buy the Pal UK cart,he bought the Japan one because of the title screen being different or something,with some kind of message about the Burning 68000 heart of fire.

I can only give more money on something more expensive as the Japanese version if i have to much money.
If it's the same in gameplay and graphics i guess it's not worth it.

[monads]

How does TV Sports Basketball stack up against Taken it to the Hoop?  My friend had the latter so we played the crap out of it as kids and loved it.

[akamichi]

A couple more games I think are underrated are Download 2 and Valis 4.  I don't know how well known those two are, but I usually don't hear much about them (especially Download2).  Valis of course is a known series, but Valis 4 never made it out of Japan afaik.

Download 2 impressed me with colorful graphics and cool intermissions.  It's pretty detailed for a horizontal shooter.  Lots of speech in the intermissions which is done via hardware rather than mixed into the audio track beforehand.  The stages are umm... interesting.  Basically, the game takes place in the "real world", then there are stages when you jack into the network.  These inside-the-network stages are unusual to say the least.  IIRC the game has 9 stages and the last boss fight is cool.  Music is good too IMO.  Guitar rock kinda stuff.

Valis 4 is a fun game.  It took me a little while to get used to using three characters at the same time but usually you can stick to one character most of the time.  Telenet did a pretty good job on smoothing out the graphics on this one.  The previous Valis's had some pretty jagged graphics.  Anyway, this game is pretty long but fun.  I think it has 9 stages too and there's a code to unlock some weird "dreamland" stage.  The music is OK.  Some tracks I really like but don't remember exactly which ones right now.

What's interesting about these two games is that they are both plain CD-ROM games.  They stand up well even to the SCD games, and in my mind surpass them in some ways.

They should be fairly cheap to pick up (~$20 or so I'd guess), but I'm sure others would know better than me.

[pixeljunkie]

How does TV Sports Basketball stack up against Taken it to the Hoop?  My friend had the latter so we played the crap out of it as kids and loved it.

I like TV Sports Basketball a lot. Everyone hates on the series...I like all of them personally

[Paladin]

I'm fairly new here but I've been playing PC Engine games for a while on Magic engine. I finally couldn't stand it any longer an purchased a Duo-RX off of D-Lite not too long ago. I can't wait till it gets here. Anyway I guess I should post something on topic.

Overrated games:

Ys 1&2: Don't get me wrong I love the game to death. It was the first CD game I owned for the system. I just think it gets talked up a little too much. I'm also a little baised by the fact that I'm one of those Dawn of Ys fanboys .

Air Zonk: The game is fun, but I heard people say that if it had been released earlier it would have saved the system. I like Soldier Blade better. I think it has better gameplay and music, though the stage designs in Zonk may be better; they certainly are more original.

Valis III: Another game I love but I like IV alot better. IV has better controls and is alot more fair than III is about platforming. I did like the different spells you could pick up in III though. I guess I'm just miffed about III always getting the glory when I thought IV was the better game.

Underrated games:

Blood Gear: I love this game. I can't do it justice by describing it. Its like Front Mission Gun Hazard, but about two or three times as fun. There is just something about dealing death from a decked out Mech that you tuned up yourself. That and the game didn't need a whole lot of Japanese knowledge since the cut scences do a fair job of telling important parts of the story. I was certainly glad for the cutscences since my knowledge of Japanese is pretty much limited to vocal aspects. The only real complaint I have about it is that the controls need some getting used too. Its not that they are bad you just have to get the timing down.

Sol Moonarge: Fun RPG I picked up off ebay for about $30 at the same time I got Blood Gear. The graphics aren't much, but it had a unique style. I wouldn't mind seeing it translated as I can't get very far into it and nobody has a walkthrough for it. Still its a fun change of pace when I get tired of CF2 and Ys 4. On a side note has anyone else played it? It would go alot easier if I could get some help in spots. I hate not knowing where to go next or what to do.

Legend of Xanadu: when you think Falcom the first thing that pops into your mind is Ys, followed shortly by Dragon Slayer. I love both of those series but I don't hear too much about Xanadu. On a side note Sorcerian is another great Falcom game that doesn't get enough credit. Heck I still have the Sierra verison with its 3 5 1/2" Floppy disks. I'm thinking of buying the Dreamcast port but I don't know how it is. Anyone played it?

[esteban]

A couple more games I think are underrated are Download 2 and Valis 4.  I don't know how well known those two are, but I usually don't hear much about them (especially Download2).  Valis of course is a known series, but Valis 4 never made it out of Japan afaik.

Download 2 impressed me with colorful graphics and cool intermissions.  It's pretty detailed for a horizontal shooter.  Lots of speech in the intermissions which is done via hardware rather than mixed into the audio track beforehand.  The stages are umm... interesting.  Basically, the game takes place in the "real world", then there are stages when you jack into the network.  These inside-the-network stages are unusual to say the least.  IIRC the game has 9 stages and the last boss fight is cool.  Music is good too IMO.  Guitar rock kinda stuff.

Valis 4 is a fun game.  It took me a little while to get used to using three characters at the same time but usually you can stick to one character most of the time.  Telenet did a pretty good job on smoothing out the graphics on this one.  The previous Valis's had some pretty jagged graphics.  Anyway, this game is pretty long but fun.  I think it has 9 stages too and there's a code to unlock some weird "dreamland" stage.  The music is OK.  Some tracks I really like but don't remember exactly which ones right now.

What's interesting about these two games is that they are both plain CD-ROM games.  They stand up well even to the SCD games, and in my mind surpass them in some ways.

They should be fairly cheap to pick up (~$20 or so I'd guess), but I'm sure others would know better than me.

Shooter fans dig Download 2... it's a decent shooter with a bunch of neat "trivial"elements that elevate it above the average shooter:

1. HITLER is in it (he morphs into a bio-beast monster towards the end of the game).
2. Several kool songs on the soundtrack
3. The involved cinema scenes are unusual for the shooter genre, though you don't want to keep rewatching them...

NEW RECOMMENDATION: Be sure to check out Download (HuCard) for some more fun (another underappreciated game!).

Valis IV is kool... you'll find that there are a bunch of Valis fans here. I still like Valis III the best,though, since it was such a huge leap from Valis II and I was really, really happy that the series improved.

[GUTS]

I have the Dreamcast port of Sorcerian, it's not too good.  It's impossible to play unless you can read Japanese, and the graphics are pretty clunky.  I thought since I have the original Sierra version also that I'd be able to understand some of it, but it's just too Japanese intensive and even knowing your way around the original doesn't help much.  Did I mention the graphics suck?  Yeah they look like polished PSOne graphics, definitely not Dreamcast caliber stuff.

[Paladin]

Thanks for the info on the Dreamcast port. I love the PC verison, but I can't play it any longer since I have XP. All my attepmts at getting it to work with Dosbox have failed. The PCE verison also turns into a bloody mess without at least a fair amount of Japanese knowledge; which I don't possess. It does have better music however. I wonder if the Dreamcast verison has added scenarios though. If its a straight port of PCE verison then I'll probably leave it alone. If does have extra stuff I might have to pick it up anyhow; I'm a sucker for new goodies .

I thoguht of a couple more underrated games.

Since I saw a genesis game mention I guess I can mention one NES game. Anyone remember Kickmaster by Taito? The RPG experience system, the different kicks, and over a dozen different spells made for some awsome gameplay. The soundtrack wasn't half bad either for an NES game.

I think Shapeshifter deserves a better rep. Sure its tough as nails sometimes, but when you beat the game it gives you a sense of accomplishment. Besides I've always liked the harder games (though some prefer to call it cheap). Its soundtrack isn't bad and the graphics aren't shabby either. All in all I just don't see it mentioned much when people ask for games to play.

[VestCunt]

what does everyone think of Shadow of the Beast?
i think the gameplay is terrible and no fun at all but when it comes to graphics and music the game is completely overlooked.
the opening screens/music when you put the disc is are spooky as hell and about the best i've seen on any Turbo game.  i'd say the game is worth $10 bucks just for that, the soundtrack and the title screen with the Beast running across the field.

I'd put Super Air Zonk in the over-rated department.  The original air zonk was futuristic, fast-paced and rockin'.  Super air zonk, on the other hand, has a stupid rockabilly theme (and i like rockabilly music), a power-up system that doesn't make any sense to me, and at many points the game slows to a crawl.  i barely play it anymore, put i remember some underwater level where the screen changes direction and starts taking you upwards and it seems like the action slows so you're killing about one enemy a minute.  also, for a SCD game it doesn't do anything that a turbochip couldn't.

[pixeljunkie]

I'd put Super Air Zonk in the over-rated department.

Totally agree, that game disappointed the hell outta' me.

Currently playing Download 2, and it is pretty amazing for a 1991 CD...very polished.

Also, for some reason or another....I can never stop playing Batman. That is a very fun pick-up-and-play game for me.

[Emerald Rocker]

I agree with you about Emerald Dragon, Akamichi, although I haven't played through the game yet. I played over an hour of it a few years ago and thought it was awesome. I have a copy of the game now and I am thinking about playing through it sometime. A person I talk to on the internet has this page up somewhere that was translating some of the game. I'll have to look for the page again or ask him for it.

That would be me!  The page is at:
http://www.shadatannis.com/glodia/emdr/index.html

I haven't updated it in a millennium though.  You can also check out my Emerald Dragon Review, which gives a brief history of the introduction without spoiling the rest of the game.

Anyways, I'd be hard-pressed to call it under-appreciated since everyone who plays it loves it... it's just that most people haven't played it.

OVER-RATED:
Kaze Kiri.  I dig it, but this is more in Shadow Dancer's league than Shinobi 3's... if even that.  Judging by this thread, it probably isn't over-rated any more =P
But it still gets a lot of nice press, so why not.

Ys 4.  Really good, but both the original and Ys 6 smash it across their mighty knees.

Flash Hiders.  I'm just not feeling this one.  It's supposed to be one of the best 2D fighters on the system, but it just feels old and clunky to me.  Gimme Asuka 120%!

Gradius 2.  Nice game, better than I'd expect, but... not that nice.

UNDER-APPRECIATED:
Kiaidan 00.  Maybe this belongs in the "unknown" column, since I've barely seen ANYthing on the internet about it, but there's this guy named Nemo who played it and didn't like it.  Therefore it's under-appreciated.

Efera and Jiliora.  Despite what the translator for Gude Crest would tell you, this game is pretty darn good.  Not earth-shattering, but it's got a lot of neat encounters.

Shadow of the Beast.  So what if every other version of the game is blah?  This one RULES.  It's actually playable, it's got sweet graphics, and the music is to die for.  After the Amiga and Genesis versions, I never expected this to be any fun at all, but I dig it big time.

[Nemo]

Underrated:

Mystic Formula - A fun, little overhead shooter, nothing particularily amazing about it, but for some reason I just find it to be awesome.  Maybe it's the great music or charming graphics, but this game deserves more recognition than it gets (i.e. none).  I've never played a bad MicroCabin game though, they remind me of Falcom in that they subscribed to the idea that less is more.  

Xak I&II - Another MC game, and my favorite at that.  This game is seriously the next best thing to Ys I&II.  So much subtle brilliance that probably only someone like me that enjoys things for cute details can really love it.  

Exile II: Wicked Phenomenon - Most people seem to hate on this game for some reason, but I think it's great.  It essentially improved over the original in every way (which was a nice game itself) and added some needed challenge, though some bosses do take way too long.  I also like games that culminate with a huge labyrinth, and this game has a pretty good one.

[Emerald Rocker]

Microcabin kicks ass, too bad they're gone now.  I need to get Mystic Formula, I've always wanted that even though most people seem meh on it.

[esteban]

UNDER-APPRECIATED:
Kiaidan 00.  Maybe this belongs in the "unknown" column, since I've barely seen ANYthing on the internet about it, but there's this guy named Nemo who played it and didn't like it.  Therefore it's under-appreciated.

ha! I've wanted to play this ever since you mentioned it (seems like a long time ago) on another forum. i recently re-read your review (honestgamers? or something like that)... it was superb. I had no idea this game was an anime license (mostly because I'm clueless on anime)... I love finding out stuff like that.

Shadow of the Beast.  So what if every other version of the game is blah?  This one RULES.  It's actually playable, it's got sweet graphics, and the music is to die for.  After the Amiga and Genesis versions, I never expected this to be any fun at all, but I dig it big time.

Yes, this game rules on the three platforms you listed. But the SCD soundtrack is friggin' insane. No joke: it's worth buying this game simply as a "soundtrack".  Truth be told, however, I've never gotten too far in the either the Amiga or Genesis versions.  

I was determined to beat the Genny version when it came out... but damn, I'd always choke when I'd get to a new area.  I think it was billed as  the first "XX megabit" cartridge for the U.S. market. 8- 12- 20-bit? Can't remember, but it's a shame that most folks didn't see 95% of that Genny cart.

[esteban]

Mystic Forumla - A fun, little overhead shooter, nothing particularily amazing about it, but for some reason I just find it to be awesome.  Maybe it's the great music or charming graphics, but this game deserves more recognition than it gets (i.e. none).  I've never played a bad MicroCabin game though, they remind me of Falcom in that they subscribed to the idea that less is more.

Thanks for the scoop on this game.  It was never high on my want list and other (lesser) games have distracted me.  Mystic Formula has now been elevated to my "get it sooner rather than later" section of my want list.

[OldRover]

Exile II: Wicked Phenomenon - Most people seem to hate on this game for some reason, but I think it's great.  It essentially improved over the original in every way (which was a nice game itself) and added some needed challenge, though some bosses do take way too long.  I also like games that culminate with a huge labrynth, and this game has a pretty good one.

I think what most people hate about it is the fact that the play mechanics are all kinds of screwed up...the far-side screen scrolling, which not only brings about cheap hits but is also a simple no-no when it comes to game design, is the major factor...bad collision plays a major role too. The game is also severely unbalanced, with enemies being way too strong and your characters being way too weak...even at max level with the best equipment for the time. Having to spend almost 2 hours in the Spire Of Eternity building up levels just to get past Crully and then the mountain after it is completely bogus. On the bright side, the cinemas are great (shows how much better cinemas can be made with 256kb as opposed to only 64kb) and the music is more accurate in terms of where the game takes place (Exile II was based on many actual areas as opposed to the original which was almost completely fictional, with a few exceptions). Blake Dorsey IS Sadler as far as I'm concerned and it's almost blasphemy to hear him play other characters.

A game is considered challenging when it is legitimately difficult to beat. A game is considered cheap when it is difficult to beat for technical reasons, such as poor control, a lack of game balancing, or "cheap hits"...all of which Exile II is unfortunately guilty of.

[Nemo]

I think what most people hate about it is the fact that the play mechanics are all kinds of screwed up...the far-side screen scrolling, which not only brings about cheap hits but is also a simple no-no when it comes to game design, is the major factor...bad collision plays a major role too. The game is also severely unbalanced, with enemies being way too strong and your characters being way too weak...even at max level with the best equipment for the time. Having to spend almost 2 hours in the Spire Of Eternity building up levels just to get past Crully and then the mountain after it is completely bogus. On the bright side, the cinemas are great (shows how much better cinemas can be made with 256kb as opposed to only 64kb) and the music is more accurate in terms of where the game takes place (Exile II was based on many actual areas as opposed to the original which was almost completely fictional, with a few exceptions). Blake Dorsey IS Sadler as far as I'm concerned and it's almost blasphemy to hear him play other characters.

A game is considered challenging when it is legitimately difficult to beat. A game is considered cheap when it is difficult to beat for technical reasons, such as poor control, a lack of game balancing, or "cheap hits"...all of which Exile II is unfortunately guilty of.

I agree with what you're saying (I have the JP version too though I can't recall if it suffers from the same flaws), and while these things are an issue, I personally was able to overcome them rather quickly so that they didn't hinder my experience.  Just exploring the levels and knowing what enemies are where was enough for me to offset most techincal issues.  The only thing I felt was cheap was the boss battle with Lawrence since his main method of attack was to run into you which causes more damage than anything, but every other boss was so patternized that they could be beaten without getting hit.  I also think people make the last dunegon harder than it really is, the best strategy is knowing when to fight and knowing when to simply run past enemies.  The last boss is a total cakewalk too.  The game's biggest flaw IMO was the fact that combining two herbs would produce unpredicatble results, so at times when you're in dire need of health you would either get a huge refill or a speck.  Even this, however, wasn't a major hindrance because I usually had more herbs in stock than were needed.

[OldRover]

The last boss of Exile II was a real disappointment IMO. Do-Tar was a joke...Shimbatha was way harder to beat the first time through but still not really much of a challenge either. I too overcame the technical difficulties of Exile II but regardless, I feel this still hurt it as a whole. It could have been a much better game...

The tonic combination thing was stupid, I thought. You could even get HP reductions from using two in sequence.

[Nemo]

Heh, I almost forgot about that, that was definitely lame.

[Sinistron]

From the games I own-
I'd say

OVERRATED:
Dragon Saber
     I actually find this poorer than Dragon Spirit- I was expecting a big upgrade in everything but to me it just feels cruddier.
New Zealand Story
     I don't find this playable whatsoever.  yeah- it's cute- but not much else.  Liquid Kids and Bonze Adventure are leagues better.
Ninja Spirit
     I LIKE it- don't get me wrong- but too short and too easy for me to hail as great.
Sidearms
     I know this game has its fans- I'm not one.  I hate running into all the speed power-ups and having my guy ludicrously fast.
Splatterhouse
     Same as Ninja Spirit.
Steam Hearts
     Eh.  Paid a lot of money for this one and was really disappointed.  Also not enough hentai to satisfy my inner and outer now that I think about it pervert.
Turrican
     To me probably the most craptastic game ever.  Even with an invinvibility code I can't beat this.  Insanely hard and devoid of fun.

UNDERRATED:
Doraemon Arabian Nights
     I LOVE this game and am surprised I don't read more about it.  Closer to a Bonk game to me than say Dracula Boy.  And the music in some stages sounds like the same team that made Bonk music.
Hani on the Road
     Love this one too.  It's like a berserk bastardized Frogger with two-player.  What's not to love?
TaleSpin
     Ain't THAT bad.  Has a lot of variety for a game that isn't great.
Time Cruise
     No- not Devil's Crush- but pretty awesome.
Image Fight
     Everytime I play this it screams "classic" to me.  Yeah- it's hard.  But I can't beat R-type either.
Veigues Tactical Gladiator
     To me this is the most underrated of the hucards.  So much stylized gameplay going on for a game in which you use a two-button controller.

[Tatsujin]

Ninja Spirit....but too short and too easy for me to hail as great.

you must be the holy uber gamer send from heaven not that it isn't beatable, but it is anything else than easy to do that, especialy when you're new to the game.