Turbo Everdrive 2 as a Super System Card

[elmer]

I've got a patch for the US Super System Card that should allow the TED2 to be used as a Super System Card on a US TurboGrafx or a PCE briefcase.

Unfortunately, I don't actually have a TurboGrafx CD setup to test this.

I'm looking for a volunteer with a TED2 and a TurboGrafx CD to do a test.

Any volunteers?

[ginoscope]

I've got a patch for the US Super System Card that should allow the TED2 to be used as a Super System Card on a US TurboGrafx or a PCE.

Unfortunately, I don't actually have a TurboGrafx CD setup to test this.

I'm looking for a volunteer with a TED2 and a TurboGrafx CD to do a test.

Any volunteers?

Wow if that works that would be fantastic seeing how much the US system card 3.0 goes for.

[Stingray]

If I had a TED2 I'd volunteer.  I've been on the fence about buying one, if this patch works that may push me over 

[mickcris]

I have a TED2 and a PCE briefcase if that will help.

[elmer]

If I had a TED2 I'd volunteer.  I've been on the fence about buying one, if this patch works that may push me over 

This patch also acts as a 512KB RAM expansion that can be used for translations/homebrew, and it means that you can just leave the TED2 inserted all the time and play pretty-much-all the HuCard and CD games (except for Arcade Card games).

It seems to be working OK on my DUO, DUO-R, SuperCDROM and PCE Briefcase ... but it needs more people to test it, on all the different systems.

It is possible that I would be better off basing the patch on the Japanese Super System Card instead of the US version, but we won't know without having more people test it.

I have a TED2 and a PCE briefcase if that will help.

Thanks, I'll PM you.

[mickcris]

works great so far on my pce briefcase.  tried both a 2.2 and 2.4 version everdrive.  only had time to load up the dracula x intro but it plays flawlessly.

[elmer]

Thanks for doing the test, I'm glad that it worked. 

I've looked around a bit more and found this old thread ...

"Couple of system card questions"
https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=4064.msg64037#msg64037

It suggests that there are a couple of games that don't work well with the US System Card, so I'll get the patch working on the Japanese System Card too, so that people will have a choice of what to use.

[grache]

Wow if that works that would be fantastic seeing how much the US system card 3.0 goes for.

US 3.0 card price is based on it being rar3z. This is just a convenience so that you don't have to take the TED out when you want to play CD games.

When it does the Arcade card, I'll lift my head up. Best solution ATM is one turbob with the everdrive in for Hu games and next to it another with an Arcade card for CD games.

And if you don't have 2 turbobs, you should go buy another or 7 right now. And/or not bother with Arcade games coz there's hardly any good games for it, and certainly not for cheap.

[HuMan]

Yeah, going with the Japanese Super System Card makes more sense, PC Engines seem a lot more common.

Whenever that new patch gets posted, I could test it with a Turbo Everdrive 2.4 and PCE Duo-R (assuming the Turbo Everdrive makes it here).

[Vimtoman]

No point on a Duo-R Duo or Super cdrom2 as they are already have V3.00.
If you load up the original bios onto a V2 everdrive it works, the rams already there.
I use it like this all the time as it saves taking the Everdrive out.

I guess this is only worth doing for any setup that is not native V3.00.

I have a briefcase and V2.4 card to test.

[NecroPhile]

It's also needed for future homebrew/translations that need access to the extra ram on a TED, stupid card, etc., so testing is useful across all hardware configurations.

[TurboXray]

No point on a Duo-R Duo or Super cdrom2 as they are already have V3.00.
If you load up the original bios onto a V2 everdrive it works, the rams already there.
I use it like this all the time as it saves taking the Everdrive out.

I guess this is only worth doing for any setup that is not native V3.00.

I have a briefcase and V2.4 card to test.

Actually, all systems need to be tested. This isn't just a 3.x bios - this gives the system more ram than SCD 3.0. 512k vs 192k.

[CrackTiger]

Wow if that works that would be fantastic seeing how much the US system card 3.0 goes for.

US 3.0 card price is based on it being rar3z. This is just a convenience so that you don't have to take the TED out when you want to play CD games.

When it does the Arcade card, I'll lift my head up. Best solution ATM is one turbob with the everdrive in for Hu games and next to it another with an Arcade card for CD games.

And if you don't have 2 turbobs, you should go buy another or 7 right now. And/or not bother with Arcade games coz there's hardly any good games for it, and certainly not for cheap.

This is an exclusive format which will likely support many future translations.

Arcade Card games are cheap and the DUO card is too. Especially compared to Turbo games.

[elmer]

No point on a Duo-R Duo or Super cdrom2 as they are already have V3.00.
If you load up the original bios onto a V2 everdrive it works, the rams already there.
I use it like this all the time as it saves taking the Everdrive out.

I guess this is only worth doing for any setup that is not native V3.00.

NO!!! Please do NOT do this!!!

Some information has come to light recently that strongly suggests that doing this is a VERY-BAD-THING™.

All indications are that running an un-modified Super System Card image on the TED2 will cause bus-fighting between the TED2 and the built-in 192KB of SCD RAM.

It looks like the SCD RAM wins the fight, and that it works ... but you are putting unusual stresses on both the built-in RAM chip and the TED2's RAM/level-shifters.  That is a bad thing, and may well lead to premature failure of either the TED2 or the console itself.

The patch that I've done fixes the problem so that there is no bus-fighting, and so that it is safe to use the TED2 to run CD games.

It is actually more important for DUO/DUO-R/SuperCDROM owners to use the patch than it is for Briefcase owners to take advantage of the ability to use it as a Super System Card.

See this thread in the Development Section for details of the problem ...

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=20009.msg433149#msg433149

And this thread for the patch itself (now for both Japanese and USA Super System Cards) ...

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=20120.msg436169#msg436169

I have a briefcase and V2.4 card to test.

That would be great, I'll PM you.


P.S. It is possible that KRIKzz worked-around this issue in his hardware ... but all the indications lead to the conclusion that he's not done this. After all ... the card was never designed for, or meant for, running CD games.

[mj9123456]

No point on a Duo-R Duo or Super cdrom2 as they are already have V3.00.
If you load up the original bios onto a V2 everdrive it works, the rams already there.
I use it like this all the time as it saves taking the Everdrive out.

I guess this is only worth doing for any setup that is not native V3.00.

NO!!! Please do NOT do this!!!

Some information has come to light recently that strongly suggests that doing this is a VERY-BAD-THING™.

All indications are that running an un-modified Super System Card image on the TED2 will cause bus-fighting between the TED2 and the built-in 192KB of SCD RAM.

It looks like the SCD RAM wins the fight, and that it works ... but you are putting unusual stresses on both the built-in RAM chip and the TED2's RAM/level-shifters.  That is a bad thing, and may well lead to premature failure of either the TED2 or the console itself.

The patch that I've done fixes the problem so that there is no bus-fighting, and so that it is safe to use the TED2 to run CD games.

It is actually more important for DUO/DUO-R/SuperCDROM owners to use the patch than it is for Briefcase owners to take advantage of the ability to use it as a Super System Card.

See this thread in the Development Section for details of the problem ...

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=20009.msg433149#msg433149

And this thread for the patch itself (now for both Japanese and USA Super System Cards) ...

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=20120.msg436169#msg436169

I have a briefcase and V2.4 card to test.

That would be great, I'll PM you.


P.S. It is possible that KRIKzz worked-around this issue in his hardware ... but all the indications lead to the conclusion that he's not done this. After all ... the card was never designed for, or meant for, running CD games.

Does this apply for v1 as well?

[Vimtoman]

No point on a Duo-R Duo or Super cdrom2 as they are already have V3.00.
If you load up the original bios onto a V2 everdrive it works, the rams already there.
I use it like this all the time as it saves taking the Everdrive out.

I guess this is only worth doing for any setup that is not native V3.00.

NO!!! Please do NOT do this!!!

Some information has come to light recently that strongly suggests that doing this is a VERY-BAD-THING™.

All indications are that running an un-modified Super System Card image on the TED2 will cause bus-fighting between the TED2 and the built-in 192KB of SCD RAM.

It looks like the SCD RAM wins the fight, and that it works ... but you are putting unusual stresses on both the built-in RAM chip and the TED2's RAM/level-shifters.  That is a bad thing, and may well lead to premature failure of either the TED2 or the console itself.

The patch that I've done fixes the problem so that there is no bus-fighting, and so that it is safe to use the TED2 to run CD games.

It is actually more important for DUO/DUO-R/SuperCDROM owners to use the patch than it is for Briefcase owners to take advantage of the ability to use it as a Super System Card.

See this thread in the Development Section for details of the problem ...

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=20009.msg433149#msg433149

And this thread for the patch itself (now for both Japanese and USA Super System Cards) ...

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=20120.msg436169#msg436169

I have a briefcase and V2.4 card to test.

That would be great, I'll PM you.


P.S. It is possible that KRIKzz worked-around this issue in his hardware ... but all the indications lead to the conclusion that he's not done this. After all ... the card was never designed for, or meant for, running CD games.

Thanks for the info elmer.

Going to stop using it.

I have a copy of  V3.01 would that be helpful?

[HuMan]

I'm new to PCE, sorry. Does the Duo still need some sort of system card to run CD games? I bought a TED2 in the hope that it could be a System Card (and run games).

[CatPix]

The Duo consoles doesn't need any System card for CD-ROM² and Super CD-ROM² games. It need an Arcade Duo card for Arcade games, but those aren't the most common so you don't need to hunt one right now to enjoy your console.

[CrackTiger]

Vimtoman: 3.01 is the TurboGrafx Super CD system card.


Hu-Man: There are 3 PC Engine CD formats (from oldest to newest): CD-ROM2 (green spine), Super CD (hot pink spine) and Arcade Card (orange spine).

System cards are required to play CD games, but each fornat's system card supports the earlier formats.

The Super CD-ROM hardware and Duo systems have the Super CD system card built-in and can play 97% of the CD library.

The Arcade Card system card comes in the cheaper "DUO" format for Duo system and the Super CD-ROM hardware, and "PRO" for the white PC Engine Interface Unit combo. If you wind up with a PRO, it will still work on Duo/SCD systems because the system card rom is still there.

Most CD games are Super CD, but there are still a lot of CD2 games. There are only around 15 dedicated Arcade Card games, plus several SCD games with improvements when played using the Arcade Card. The newer the CD format, the larger the space is fir game segments. It's the equivalent of larger cart games. So some of the Arcade Card games are some of the most impressive of the generation.

The Interface Unit has the memory used by CD2 games built-in, so you can technically play CD2 games on one of these combo sets using a System Card <2.2 rom. But after what elmer said about the TED v2+ causing hardware issues, I'd hold off on running any system card roms until every combination of TED version/system card format/hardware configuration is confirmed safe or dangerous.

[HuMan]

Thanks for the clarification. The compatibility guide on the main site didn't really explain the system cards. Nice to know my TED2 can be strictly for games now.

[elmer]

Does this apply for v1 as well?

I don't know ... I traded out my TED v1 before anyone here was aware of this issue.

It all depends upon how KRIKzz designed the different Everdrive models.

It's easy to write a test CD or HuCard that will show if there is likely to be a problem ... but I can't think of a way to show that there absolutely isn't a problem.

The difficulty is because if KRIKzz is erasing the top 512KB of FLASH when he writes a cartridge image, then it's going to look the exactly the same as if he just doesn't map the FLASH into that region.

But if it is still mapped, then there will be a bus-fight when the SCD RAM is enabled.

We know that the TED v1 works as a Super System Card when run in a DUO/etc ... I tried that myself, and I think that a bunch of people do it. We just don't know if it's causing bus-fighting and potential long-term problems.

I'll have to ask KRIKzz on his forum.

I have a copy of  V3.01 would that be helpful?

Thanks, but AFAIK I've got all the different System Card images. I used this thread for reference.

Minor system card differences

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=4336.0

But after what elmer said about the TED v2+ causing hardware issues, I'd hold off on running any system card roms until every combination of TED version/system card format/hardware configuration is confirmed safe or dangerous.

There's no problem with TED v1 or TED v2 running System Card 1 or System Card 2 games (i.e. regular old CD2 games).

Those only use the 64KB of RAM that's mapped into banks $80-$87, which doesn't conflict at all with either TED version being mapped into bank $00-$7F.

It's running SuperCD games that use the 192KB RAM that's mapped into the HuCard space at $68-$7F where there's a potential problem.

There wouldn't be any problem at all if KRIKzz restricted the TEDs to just banks $00-$3F when they're running a HuCard smaller than 512KB ... but that doesn't appear to be the case on the TED v2 from my testing.

The TED v1 may be different.

Either way ... it's not a problem at all when running HuCard games, which is what KRIKzz designed the card for.

[Vimtoman]

Most CD games are Super CD, but there are still a lot of CD2 games. There are only around 15 dedicated Arcade Card games, plus several SCD games with improvements when played using the Arcade Card. The newer the CD format, the larger the space is fir game segments. It's the equivalent of larger cart games. So some of the Arcade Card games are some of the most impressive of the generation.

Thanks Black Tiger.

What SCD games take advantage of the AC card?

[IvanBeavkov]

Most CD games are Super CD, but there are still a lot of CD2 games. There are only around 15 dedicated Arcade Card games, plus several SCD games with improvements when played using the Arcade Card. The newer the CD format, the larger the space is fir game segments. It's the equivalent of larger cart games. So some of the Arcade Card games are some of the most impressive of the generation.

Thanks Black Tiger.

What SCD games take advantage of the AC card?

There is a list of SCD/ACD games in this thread. It also list what games can use certain accessories, like the 6 button controller.

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=764.0

[Vimtoman]

Cheers will check that thread out.

Tested the new Bios by elmer and works great with Turbo Everdrive V2.4 but not with V1.1.

Brilliant work mate.

[elmer]

Tested the new Bios by elmer and works great with Turbo Everdrive V2.4 but not with V1.1.

I'm glad that it worked for you. It's a minor patch ... it really shouldn't cause any problems.

But there may be some other games (apart from Gate of Thunder) that write to the System Card memory that will need specific handling, so if anyone finds a game that crashes, I'd like to know so that I can find a fix.

The current patch definitely won't work with a TED v1 ... the TED1 doesn't have any RAM, so this patch will just cause any SuperCD games to fail if it is used on a TED1.

We'll have to wait for KRIKzz to respond to the message on his forum before anything can be done (if needed) for the TED1.

[mj9123456]

Cheers will check that thread out.

Tested the new Bios by elmer and works great with Turbo Everdrive V2.4 but not with V1.1.

Brilliant work mate.

Wondering if that means it's not necessary on v1.

[CrackTiger]

Cheers will check that thread out.

Tested the new Bios by elmer and works great with Turbo Everdrive V2.4 but not with V1.1.

Brilliant work mate.

Wondering if that means it's not necessary on v1.

The v1 doesn't have the extra memory.

[mj9123456]

Tested the new Bios by elmer and works great with Turbo Everdrive V2.4 but not with V1.1.

I'm glad that it worked for you. It's a minor patch ... it really shouldn't cause any problems.

But there may be some other games (apart from Gate of Thunder) that write to the System Card memory that will need specific handling, so if anyone finds a game that crashes, I'd like to know so that I can find a fix.

The current patch definitely won't work with a TED v1 ... the TED1 doesn't have any RAM, so this patch will just cause any SuperCD games to fail if it is used on a TED1.

We'll have to wait for KRIKzz to respond to the message on his forum before anything can be done (if needed) for the TED1.

Sounds good. Please keep all of us v1 users posted!

[Groover]

I was reading on krikzz message board and they where saying not to load up the OG System Card 3.0. They recommended to use a patched System Card 3 file. I didn't look at the dates perhaps it was an older conversation that has been outdated. Good to know it is an option if/when I get a SuperGrafx and CD-ROM2 addon with RGB. Someday maybe next year.

[Vimtoman]

You need to look at this thread by elmer.

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=20120.0

[blueraven]

Vimto, there is a complete list of ACD card games that appeared recently, and it includes the games with SCD enhancement (that run better with the ACD)

just do multiple searches, or maybe someone will remember which thread it was and post a link.

[Vimtoman]

Thanks Bluehaven.
Ive found one thread with a list and looks like most just load up quicker.
Emerald dragon is mentioned which is one translation I'm waiting to be finished.

[mj9123456]

Elmer, any word from Krikzz on the information you need?

[elmer]

Elmer, any word from Krikzz on the information you need?

Nothing back from KRIKzz on his forums, and he hasn't decided to just send me a PM instead.

As I've said, I no longer own a TED1, so I can't do any tests myself, but I can create a test ROM that will let you know if there's a "serious" problem ... if someone wants to run it.

At this point, from what I've seen (without the evidence to be certain), I'm guessing that the TED1 doesn't have any way to map out the top 512KB of cartridge space, and so will have the some kind of bus-fighting going on when you run a Super System Card image.

For clarity ... this is ONLY when you run a Super System Card image, and all the time afterwards until you turn the power off.

From my 30+ year old half-remembered knowledge of electronics, the bus-fighting may not be too bad if the top 512KB of TED1 flash-ROM is cleared to $FF (which is the default when it is cleared).

You'd need someone with real electronics training to say if that's really the case with the CMOS electronics on the PC Engine.

Either way ... there's not much that DUO/DUO-R/SuperCDROM owners with a TED1 can do.

You either take the risk of running the unmodified Super System Card image, or you remove the TED1 before you play any SCD games.

Stone Age Gamer specifically warns against removing/inserting the TED1/TED2 too much because it is just slightly thicker than original HuCards and constant removal/insertion may damage your cartridge slot.

That's another reason why I wanted a "safe" version of the Super System Card to run on my TED2 ... I just want to leave it plugged-in, and only remove it to run Arcade Card games (i.e. Sapphire).

[SamIAm]

Shoot, I could do that. Beam the test ROM my way any time.

[mj9123456]

Elmer, any word from Krikzz on the information you need?

As I've said, I no longer own a TED1, so I can't do any tests myself, but I can create a test ROM that will let you know if there's a "serious" problem ... if someone wants to run it.

What will running it entail? Will I risk damaging my system or Everdrive?

[seieienbu]

Vimto, there is a complete list of ACD card games that appeared recently, and it includes the games with SCD enhancement (that run better with the ACD)

just do multiple searches, or maybe someone will remember which thread it was and post a link.

I don't remember the thread, but I have the list.  At risk of being redundant:

ACD Games:
Art of Fighting
Battlefield '94
Fire Pro Female Wrestling
Fatal Fury 2
Fatal Fury Special
Ginga Fukei Densetsu Sapphire
Jong Shin Densetsu
Kabuki Itouryodan
Mad Stalker Full Metal Force
Madou Monogatari
Strider
World Heroes 2

SCD+ACDs Games:
3 x 3 Eyes Sanjiyan Hensei
Atlas Renaissance Voyager
Brandish
Eikan Wa Kimini
Flash Hiders
Formation Soccer '95
Gulliver Boy
J. League Tremendous Soccer '94
Linda Cube
Mahjong Sword Princess Quest
Popful Mail   
Princess Maker 2
Private Eye Doll
Sexy Idol Mahjong Fashion   
Sotsugyou II Neo Generation
Super Real Mahjong P II & III
Super Real Mahjong P V Custom
Tanjou Debut
Vasteel 2   
Wrestling Angels Double Impact

If I missed any let me know.

[elmer]

What will running it entail? Will I risk damaging my system or Everdrive?

Haha ... of course, not!

It'll just be loading up any 1MB HuCard game, and then reset the TED1 and load up a test image.

I just need to see if KRIKzz is clearing out the remains of an old ROM image when you load up a new one.

If he's not, then you really shouldn't run an unmodified Super System Card image on the TED1, and the only possible "fix" for the TED1 will be to make an expanded 1MB Super System Card image that will force the upper memory to be cleared to $FF.

If KRIKzz doesn't actually map out the top 512KB on the TED1 (which I doubt), then that's the only thing that can be done to reduce (but not completely avoid) any "bus-fighting" when using a Super System Card image on the TED1.

[ginoscope]

What will running it entail? Will I risk damaging my system or Everdrive?

Haha ... of course, not!

It'll just be loading up any 1MB HuCard game, and then reset the TED1 and load up a test image.

I just need to see if KRIKzz is clearing out the remains of an old ROM image when you load up a new one.

If he's not, then you really shouldn't run an unmodified Super System Card image on the TED1, and the only possible "fix" for the TED1 will be to make an expanded 1MB Super System Card image that will force the upper memory to be cleared to $FF.

If KRIKzz doesn't actually map out the top 512KB on the TED1 (which I doubt), then that's the only thing that can be done to reduce (but not completely avoid) any "bus-fighting" when using a Super System Card image on the TED1.

I have a TE1 and would not mind running that test.

[mj9123456]

I have a v1, so let me know how I can help.

[grendelrt]

Any update on the V1 question? I load super system card 3 on my duo using the v1 to prevent pulling it out and in all the time.

[elmer]

Any update on the V1 question? I load super system card 3 on my duo using the v1 to prevent pulling it out and in all the time.

No update, yet. I still need to write the test program, but I've been a bit busy with Xanadu.

[SamIAm]

As well you should be!

*cracks whip*

[elmer]

As well you should be!

*cracks whip*

Hahaha, yes boss! 

We're getting really, really close to the next major milestone in Xanadu ... then I'll take a short break and write the test for the TED1.

Just as an FYI ... I really don't expect it to tell us anything incredibly significant.

[ginoscope]

As well you should be!

*cracks whip*

Hahaha, yes boss! 

We're getting really, really close to the next major milestone in Xanadu ... then I'll take a short break and write the test for the TED1.

Just as an FYI ... I really don't expect it to tell us anything incredibly significant.

Great to hear about the Xanadu progress.

 Let me know if you want me to test the TED1 when you write the test for it.

[grendelrt]

As well you should be!

*cracks whip*

Hahaha, yes boss! 

We're getting really, really close to the next major milestone in Xanadu ... then I'll take a short break and write the test for the TED1.

Just as an FYI ... I really don't expect it to tell us anything incredibly significant.

Cool thanks for the update!

[mj9123456]

Any updates on v1? Is it likely affected in the same way as v2? Thanks.

[Johnpv]

First let me say thanks for making this patch, this is awesome stuff.  I just had a quick, maybe dumb question.  Would it be ok to use the US System Card 3.01 on my Japanese Duo.  Or do I always have to use the Japanese one?  The only reason I ask is because it would be nice to have English menus for accessing save files that are on the system.

[NecroPhile]

There's a game or two that don't like the US system card, but generally you'll be okay.

[CrackTiger]

First let me say thanks for making this patch, this is awesome stuff.  I just had a quick, maybe dumb question.  Would it be ok to use the US System Card 3.01 on my Japanese Duo.  Or do I always have to use the Japanese one?  The only reason I ask is because it would be nice to have English menus for accessing save files that are on the system. 

You don't need to run a game to use the game save management menus. Whenever you want to delete files, just use a TurboGrafx-CD System Card rom or this special patched rom.