PCEngine-FX.com

Quote from: Mathius on 03/29/2015, 12:41 AMI think it's a little early to start throwing out judgements. We'll see what the future holds. :)

• How much is it going to cost an indie to produce each cart
• How many do you have to order at a time
• How long is it going to take to get them
• How big is the market

• How much are they going to take from each sale
• How big is the market

Quote from: poponon on 03/29/2015, 02:28 PMOnly way this could be interesting is if they limit the hardware  to 4th or 5th gen stuff. Especially if they released free + intuitive development tools alongside it.

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 03/29/2015, 04:36 PMlisten to this podcast with mike  why he decied to use jag cases. and other stuff and then decide if you should diss it or not. http://www.allgengamers.com/home/2015/3/3/episode-190-the-retro-vgs.html (http://www.allgengamers.com/home/2015/3/3/episode-190-the-retro-vgs.html)

all you guys are putting it down before it starts

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 03/29/2015, 03:48 PMAnd using a Jag case...I'd have to see the specifics but this doesn't make much sense to me. The advantages should be few if any. The PCB should be a fraction of the size of the Jag's, so it'll need to be designed, unnaturally, to stretch to to the mounting points inside the case. You could retool the case or produce an in-between riser peg system or something, but if you're doing this at a level of mass production needed for a machine like this then it seems extremely unlikely that using old Jag molds would be cheaper than just drawing up a new case. This is 2015 after all. Then there is the stigma of having your brand new machine look exactly like one of the shittiest excuses for a console to ever be built, which is considerable. It's not that the Jag shape is bad or anything, in fact it looks great in alternate colors, but a pragmatically thinking person would have to wonder why you, as a console manufacturer, would be cool with reminding people about the Jag with your new machine. It's quite likely that this guy ACTUALLY THINKS THE JAG WAS GOOD, and do you want to buy a machine from a maniac like that?

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 03/29/2015, 06:03 PMnone at all, just love that its retro (and despite the system name it has no connection with my show)
retro is what started video games before it was retro,  if it wasn't for the likes of atari,intellivision or nes, we wouldn't have next generation systems.

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 03/29/2015, 06:03 PMnone at all, just love that its retro (and despite the system name it has no connection with my show)
retro is what started video games before it was retro,  if it wasn't for the likes of atari,intellivision or nes, we wouldn't have next generation systems.

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 03/29/2015, 04:36 PMlisten to this podcast with mike  why he decied to use jag cases. and other stuff and then decide if you should diss it or not.  (http://www.allgengamers.com/home/2015/3/3/episode-190-the-retro-vgs.html)

Quote from: Mathius on 03/29/2015, 09:14 PMI remembered a quote by RJ Mical regarding the 3DO where he states that when something stinks it continues to stink forever.

Quote from: Mathius on 03/29/2015, 09:14 PMWith all that's being said though I'd still hate to see general pessimism ruin the machine early.

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 03/29/2015, 08:38 PMthey can't clone any internals to the jaguar something about atari I think even though it open market.
again listen to the podcast he tlaks about the cost wise of making a new mode and getting the jag mold.
the system is new but the games it self are based on retro games.
the fact all games go back to retro: ie tempest evolved to tempest 2k to tempest 3k and so on.

Quote from: guest on 03/29/2015, 10:29 PMThis isn't just plain old pessimism Mathius

Quote from: TurboGrafx on 03/30/2015, 06:29 AMCurious to see the price when it's finished.

Quote from: Desh on 03/30/2015, 01:05 PMI honestly have no clue why a major manufacturer (especially Nintendo) hasn't made brand spanking new games for their old consoles.  I know it is still sort of a niche market but anything Nintendo shits out these days is gold.  Even if the "actual" market isn't large enough the resellers and scalpers will buy up the rest of the releases anyways.

Quote from: MotherGunner on 03/29/2015, 05:48 PM

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 03/29/2015, 04:36 PMlisten to this podcast with mike  why he decied to use jag cases. and other stuff and then decide if you should diss it or not. http://www.allgengamers.com/home/2015/3/3/episode-190-the-retro-vgs.html (http://www.allgengamers.com/home/2015/3/3/episode-190-the-retro-vgs.html)

all you guys are putting it down before it starts

No disrespect was intended by me at least, but I need to ask:  What's your dog in this fight? 

Quote from: galam on 03/30/2015, 05:36 PMHe has money in the project someplace

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 03/30/2015, 11:33 AMwhat ever dudes all hear is complaining so this my last post on this topic

Quote from: galam on 03/30/2015, 06:47 PM

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 03/30/2015, 11:33 AMwhat ever dudes all hear is complaining so this my last post on this topic

I didnt really think you did, i just wanted to prove this post wrong.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 03/30/2015, 09:30 PMI listened to his whole appearance on the Podcast. He's a guy who is annoyed by the same aspects of modern gaming that drive me crazy too: constant updates, games that are garbage when shipped and only get fixes if enough people buy the game, never ended saving/loading screens, etc. He strikes me as %100 genuine and very optimistic. I agree %100 that the fact that it takes an hour or more to get a WiiU up and running out of the box is total horseshit.

QuoteNow, a lot of Kickstarter ideas start out this amorphous and still end up being decent products in the end. The creators simply learn how to do it once they're responsible for the $200k someone donated to them. However, his part of the project is currently "resident dreamer" and by no means designer, creator, CEO, or anything like that.

QuoteI wish him the best of luck because if he nails it then I probably want one, but I have zero confidence it will happen.

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 03/30/2015, 10:50 PMits called marketing, getting the attention of the public before the release . movie companies been doing it for ages (trailers) not mention game companies been doing as well announce the product before the release ( a certain company comes to mind did a 10-10-10 ad for its system)
Wrestling promotions been doing it as well for big events ( JJ's Global Force Wrestling announced a show vegas even before they got the whole roster set or a tv deal)

Quote from: Mishran on 03/31/2015, 05:45 AMIs it just a coincidence that this is all popping up so close to April 1st? :-k

I know I can't be the only one who thought about this. People have gone to great length for April Fool's jokes in the past, so who knows. Guess we'll know tomorrow.

Quote from: Mishran on 03/31/2015, 05:45 AMIs it just a coincidence that this is all popping up so close to April 1st? :-k

I know I can't be the only one who thought about this. People have gone to great length for April Fool's jokes in the past, so who knows. Guess we'll know tomorrow.

Quote from: elmer on 03/30/2015, 02:03 PM

Quote from: Desh on 03/30/2015, 01:05 PMI honestly have no clue why a major manufacturer (especially Nintendo) hasn't made brand spanking new games for their old consoles.  I know it is still sort of a niche market but anything Nintendo shits out these days is gold.  Even if the "actual" market isn't large enough the resellers and scalpers will buy up the rest of the releases anyways.

Let's imagine some rough figures ...

A pro-developer is going to cost you around $100,000 per year, more for a really good one. Take a small team of 5, and give them 2 years (to produce a high enough quality game that Nintendo would put their name on - this is a very low estimate for a Nintendo game) ... that's $1,000,000.

Let's add in say, another $500,000 in part-time management, office, HR, and other costs ... and in Miyamoto-san flying in a couple of times to steer the project.

Getting the cart manufacturing back up for a smallish run ... say another $1,000,000.

Throw in some marketing ... it's Nintendo, after all ... say $1,500,000 to round out the figures.

The carts/box/manuals themselves ... let's be really generous and go with the Retro VGS figure of $8 cost.

We've already decided that it's a niche market, so let's go for a small production run of 60,000 carts ... that's another $500,000.

So that's a $4,500,000 spend ... so you'd want to project at least $9,000,000 to have a reasonable ROI.

That gives us $9,000,000/60,000 = $150 per game.

That's Nintendo's wholesale selling price. Add in a 20% distribution markup and a 30% retail markup ... and that's $235 per game to the buyer.

Are there 60,000 people out there willing to pay $235 for a new Nintendo SNES game?

I don't know ... there could be ... would you?

Quote from: Opethian on 03/31/2015, 09:19 AMthe long con...

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 03/30/2015, 11:33 AMwhat ever dudes all hear is complaining so this my last post on this topic

Quote from: mickcris on 03/30/2015, 09:45 PMIf they didn't want people to speculate about the console, they should not have announced it so early without giving any details.  I don't really see it succeeding, but I could be wrong.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 03/31/2015, 08:09 PMIf you'd rather play the stuff on a bigger screen, that's what the Playstation TV is, a consolized Vita.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 03/31/2015, 11:18 PMTheir business model is terrible. They've been losing money like an oil fire for several years now. They've sold their headquarters. They're completely fucked.

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 03/30/2015, 08:40 PMdon't judge the book by its cover.

Quote from: PCEngineHell on 04/01/2015, 10:38 AM

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 03/30/2015, 08:40 PMdon't judge the book by its cover.

Do you even read books? Your English is so bad it's giving me a migraine. Looking over your post I get the impression you don't read or write much of anything. That or you said fuck all in regards to basic grammar skills and just decided to put post together using a tablet with one arm tied behind your back.

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 04/01/2015, 11:37 AMat times I get excited and do pron to mistakes.

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 04/01/2015, 11:37 AM

Quote from: PCEngineHell on 04/01/2015, 10:38 AM

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 03/30/2015, 08:40 PMdon't judge the book by its cover.

Do you even read books? Your English is so bad it's giving me a migraine. Looking over your post I get the impression you don't read or write much of anything. That or you said fuck all in regards to basic grammar skills and just decided to put post together using a tablet with one arm tied behind your back.

if you can't say any thing nice don't say any thing at all.
is it necessary to drop f bombs I have find it rude.
at times I get excited and do pron to mistakes.
I have a cousin with downs and he types as bad as he speaks ,but I don't put him down for it.

Quote from: guest on 04/01/2015, 11:44 AM

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 04/01/2015, 11:37 AMat times I get excited and do pron to mistakes.

2 Dans 1 Convention?

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 04/01/2015, 12:02 PM2 dans but 2 conventions

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 04/01/2015, 11:37 AMif you can't say any thing nice don't say any thing at all.

Quote from: PCEngineHell on 04/01/2015, 10:38 AM

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 03/30/2015, 08:40 PMdon't judge the book by its cover.

Do you even read books? Your English is so bad it's giving me a migraine. Looking over your post I get the impression you don't read or write much of anything. That or you said fuck all in regards to basic grammar skills and just decided to put post together using a tablet with one arm tied behind your back.

Quote from: esadajr on 04/13/2015, 06:47 AMTiny Knight adv looks promising.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 03/29/2015, 03:48 PMThen there is the stigma of having your brand new machine look exactly like one of the shittiest excuses for a console to ever be built, which is considerable. It's not that the Jag shape is bad or anything, in fact it looks great in alternate colors, but a pragmatically thinking person would have to wonder why you, as a console manufacturer, would be cool with reminding people about the Jag with your new machine. It's quite likely that this guy ACTUALLY THINKS THE JAG WAS GOOD, and do you want to buy a machine from a maniac like that?

Quote from: NightWolve on 04/13/2015, 07:46 AM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 03/29/2015, 03:48 PMThen there is the stigma of having your brand new machine look exactly like one of the shittiest excuses for a console to ever be built, which is considerable. It's not that the Jag shape is bad or anything, in fact it looks great in alternate colors, but a pragmatically thinking person would have to wonder why you, as a console manufacturer, would be cool with reminding people about the Jag with your new machine. It's quite likely that this guy ACTUALLY THINKS THE JAG WAS GOOD, and do you want to buy a machine from a maniac like that?

ROFLMAO! I have to hand it to ya, quite honestly, I don't think I've ever run into someone better at sarcasm than you.

So, I just learned about these plans for such a console via PD's late-to-the-party thread (https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=18914.0) and think I'll just leave Zeta's quote to also pretty much speak for my opinion on it. That is all. ;)

Quote from: TurboGrafx on 04/13/2015, 06:37 AMThere is a video from gamester81 on youtube that shows some gameplay. I am definitely intrigued by it.

http://youtu.be/NbFjBmVT_J4&feature=player_embedded

Quote from: Lost Monkey on 04/13/2015, 09:35 AM

Quote from: NightWolve on 04/13/2015, 07:46 AM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 03/29/2015, 03:48 PMThen there is the stigma of having your brand new machine look exactly like one of the shittiest excuses for a console to ever be built, which is considerable. It's not that the Jag shape is bad or anything, in fact it looks great in alternate colors, but a pragmatically thinking person would have to wonder why you, as a console manufacturer, would be cool with reminding people about the Jag with your new machine. It's quite likely that this guy ACTUALLY THINKS THE JAG WAS GOOD, and do you want to buy a machine from a maniac like that?

ROFLMAO! I have to hand it to ya, quite honestly, I don't think I've ever run into someone better at sarcasm than you.

So, I just learned about these plans for such a console via PD's late-to-the-party thread (https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=18914.0) and think I'll just leave Zeta's quote to also pretty much speak for my opinion on it. That is all. ;)

Sarcastic or not - he speaks the truth.  The biggest reason I have for doubting these guys is the looming specter of the Jaguar fan-base.  It reeks of failure and disillusion.

We don't need another "Uncle Rico" console.

(https://efcb7d2337-custmedia.vresp.com/e253b4da9a/rico.jpg)

Quote from: Lost Monkey on 04/13/2015, 07:40 AM

Quote from: esadajr on 04/13/2015, 06:47 AMTiny Knight adv looks promising.

It does - I just wish they would drop the Jaguar case...

Quote from: elmer on 04/13/2015, 11:10 AMI'm going to channel Arkhan here, and say that Tiny Knight itself looked like a low-quality game-school-project Western wannabe copy of a Japanese game.

Quote from: MotherGunner on 04/13/2015, 01:39 PM

Quote from: Lost Monkey on 04/13/2015, 09:35 AMWe don't need another "Uncle Rico" console.

(https://efcb7d2337-custmedia.vresp.com/e253b4da9a/rico.jpg)

Dude, you made my day!!

(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a59/MotherGunner/RicoJaguar_zpsfv04oopq.png)

Quote from: wildfruit on 04/13/2015, 05:38 PMWaiting to see how long an unlicensed game takes to appear. I hope its codemasters doing micro machines like they did to Nintendo. Or dizzy 😵

Quote from: TurboGrafx on 04/13/2015, 06:37 AMThere is a video from gamester81 on youtube that shows some gameplay. I am definitely intrigued by it.

http://youtu.be/NbFjBmVT_J4&feature=player_embedded

Quote from: esteban on 04/13/2015, 08:22 PMI'd play Tiny Knight based on the demo alone.

:)

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 04/13/2015, 10:16 PMYou probably won't, since it probably won't ever come out.

Quote from: guest on 04/13/2015, 07:45 PM

Quote from: wildfruit on 04/13/2015, 05:38 PMWaiting to see how long an unlicensed game takes to appear. I hope its codemasters doing micro machines like they did to Nintendo. Or dizzy 😵

LOL, almost no one will want to develop for the system, imagine if they actually restrict developers from developing games for the system with "licensing". Which I wouldn't doubt that could happen since the small amount of info about the console in public already points to a horribly mismanaged project full of wishful thinking.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 04/15/2015, 02:56 PMIt's less real than the Phantom was because at least the Phantom had specs and sorta ran.

Quote from: ParanoiaDragon on 04/14/2015, 01:32 AMAs would I.  Personally, the only thing I know that bugs me, is the idea of it using Jag carts, I HATE those things!  I have all mine stacked....very carefully, with little guarantee that they'll stay that way.  A fly buzzing by would knock them off the shelf.

Quote from: guest on 04/15/2015, 03:43 PMI'd guess their idea of "made in the usa" would be more like "final assembly", where a chinese made pcb (fully populated) would be inserted into their jagwire cases and packaged here.

Quote from: TurboGrafx on 04/13/2015, 08:57 PMhaters gonna hate, but I will probably get this.

Quote from: NightWolve on 04/15/2015, 11:38 PM

Quote from: TurboGrafx on 04/13/2015, 08:57 PMhaters gonna hate, but I will probably get this.

Yeaaah, riiight... Haters gonna hate, riders gonna riiiide... Except that the "haters" here actually articulated rational, logical, honest, etc. arguments/points as to why this is such a boneheaded/absurd idea... "Cheerleaders gonna cheerlead" is more like it...

Sorry, but one side is clearly far more blind here than the other... Enjoy your "console" should the idea for it ever materialize into a solid product that honors a previous failed console. ;) This begs to be lambasted and some of us don't like seeing gullible people hand over their money to lost causes.

Quote from: NightWolve on 04/15/2015, 11:38 PM

Quote from: TurboGrafx on 04/13/2015, 08:57 PMhaters gonna hate, but I will probably get this.

Yeaaah, riiight... Haters gonna hate, riders gonna riiiide... Except that the "haters" here actually articulated rational, logical, honest, etc. arguments/points as to why this is such a boneheaded/absurd idea... "Cheerleaders gonna cheerlead" is more like it...

Sorry, but one side is clearly far more blind here than the other... Enjoy your "console" should the idea for it ever materialize into a solid product that honors a previous failed console. ;) This begs to be lambasted and some of us don't like seeing gullible people hand over their money to lost causes.

Quote from: guest on 04/16/2015, 01:18 AMagain, I am still curious.

Why waste time on this when we're already making games for the retro systems we like?

I won't stop NEC/MSXing for some Jaguar jive bullshit.  There aren't even that many retro developers that are coherent/competent.

They might as well call it the Bright Eyed Naive Developer Box.

BEND Box.

IM GONNA MAKE LEGEN OD ZELDA / FINAL FANTSY CROSSOVER GAME WITH HINTS OF CHRONO TRRGR AND F ZERO.

Quote from: TurboGrafx on 04/16/2015, 06:19 AM

Quote from: TurboGrafx on 04/13/2015, 08:57 PMhaters gonna hate, but I will probably get this.

I never said that I didn't agree with points being made by everyone on here. I am just willing to give the console a chance. Sorry if others don't agree with me.

Quote from: NightWolve on 04/16/2015, 07:23 PM

Quote from: TurboGrafx on 04/16/2015, 06:19 AM

Quote from: TurboGrafx on 04/13/2015, 08:57 PMhaters gonna hate, but I will probably get this.

I never said that I didn't agree with points being made by everyone on here. I am just willing to give the console a chance. Sorry if others don't agree with me.

You dismissed "others" as "haters" which implies blind hate or hate just for the hell of it as if the criticism levied against this dumb idea wasn't well thought out and defended... Maybe don't throw dumb, dismissive shit around in the form of overused slogans like "haters gonna hate" against critics (AKA those that don't agree with you).

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 04/16/2015, 08:57 PMThe term "hater" was designed by and used exclusively by total pieces of shit for so long that it would never occur to me to reason with someone using it "incorrectly". People who are so horrible that they have the ultimate final horrible human attribute: the inability to take responsibility or to even acknowledge their own horribleness to such an extreme extent that they actually see all of their critics as the cause of all the commotion.

Suge Knight has "haters", surely the reason he's on trial for murder AGAIN can't be his own murderous self. That dead guy's family are just haters.

Using the term "hater" in a non-ironic fashion is the fastest way to tell people you are a total cunt, that you have no interest in fairness, logic, history, etc, and I fully appreciate people like this using it so that there is no confusion.

Quote from: NightWolve on 04/16/2015, 09:23 PMOh OK, always an easy escape with, "Hey, was just a joke... Why so serious ?"

Quote from: NightWolve on 04/16/2015, 09:36 PMDo I have to know you well to find slogans like "haters gonna hate" dumb, dismissive, annoying, etc. ? I criticize/mock its use and other forms like "riders gonna ride..." I wouldn't go as far as Zeta did, so take that up with him.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 04/16/2015, 10:19 PMOH MY GOD IT WAS SO HILARIOUS!!!

THANKS FOR ALL THE LAUGHS!!!

Quote from: elmer on 04/17/2015, 11:51 AMThe more that I think about the Retro VGS ... the less that I'm against it.

I've come to realize that it just isn't aimed at me, or at 90% of the people here.

I no longer believe that there's any real intention to try create a new commercially-competitive retro-hardware 2d-console to go up against Sony/Microsoft/Steam/Goole/Apple.

It's the lunacy of that idea that most of the posts here have been ragging on.

I now believe that it's intended to be a limited-lifespan toy ... just like the Jakks Atari-Classics/Namco-Classics controllers or the NeoGeoX.

Listening to the podcast again ... it's about opening up the box, plugging in a big cartridge, turning the console on, and being able to play immediately. Then flipping the switch and putting in the other pack-in cartridge and trying that.

It's about a "retro" feeling ... not about real "retro" hardware or games.

Michael Katz even mentioned pack-in games ... I suspect that there will be 2 cartridges in the box because the act of switching between the 2 is part of the "retro" experience.

It's the kind of thing that grandparents will buy for their kids because they remember that that's what games used to be like.

I don't believe that it's really meant for the serious PCE/SNES/Genesis/PSX/Saturn game fan ... except as a pure "collectable".

With the Jaguar background, Katz will probably try to pay Jeff Minter to do a new "Tempest 4000" game for it ... which would probably get every Jaguar fan to buy the Retro VGS.

Half-a-dozen modern Steam "retro" developers will probably get subsidized to put their games on cartridges (which they'll love for the novelty) ... and then the whole thing will fade away ... just like happens with any fad.

Quick check ... who still has a Razor Scooter or a set of Poker Chips stuck in a closet somewhere?

Quote from: guest on 04/17/2015, 09:58 AMThis is the first time I've checked this thread since Iacovelli deleted his account.

Quote from: guest on 04/17/2015, 01:54 PMSo basically, it's a quick cashcow for a nimrod.

Quoteand it's in a Jagtard case.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 04/17/2015, 03:16 PMBeing for or against it isn't the issue. It doesn't exist. The guy has NOTHING. There is no Retro VGS.

I'll form an opinion on it when some details, ANY details, are revealed.

Quote from: MotherGunner on 04/17/2015, 04:54 PMWhat's a snigger?

Quote from: MotherGunner on 04/17/2015, 04:54 PMWhat's a snigger?

Quote from: Nulltard on 04/17/2015, 09:58 AMThis is the first time I've checked this thread since Iacovelli deleted his account.  I didn't read back beyond page 8 where the "new post" button led me... and I give no shits about the dramas either way, but I have to point out one damning piece of evidence:

Quote from: TurboGrafx on 04/16/2015, 09:13 PMIt was a joke. It's in the Taylor Swift song Shake it off lol. Geez

Taylor Swift? :lol:

bruh0.jpg

Quote from: cr8zykuban0 on 04/20/2015, 02:32 AM

Quote from: guest on 04/17/2015, 09:58 AMThis is the first time I've checked this thread since Iacovelli deleted his account.  I didn't read back beyond page 8 where the "new post" button led me... and I give no shits about the dramas either way, but I have to point out one damning piece of evidence:

Quote from: TurboGrafx on 04/16/2015, 09:13 PMIt was a joke. It's in the Taylor Swift song Shake it off lol. Geez

Taylor Swift? :lol:

bruh0.jpg

wait, do i look like taylor swift? how did you get a pic of me eating a fry? lol that's awesome but man my acne looks terrible in that pic. glad its nowhere what it used to be

Quote from: esteban on 04/26/2015, 06:03 AMI don't want acne fries. No.

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 06/29/2015, 03:11 AMLove that Pier Solar is going to be whored onto it.

A surefire sign that the thing is gonna tank.

Quote from: guest on 06/29/2015, 08:34 AM

Quote from: guest on 06/29/2015, 03:11 AMLove that Pier Solar is going to be whored onto it.

A surefire sign that the thing is gonna tank.

I knew you would say that. 😂

I forgot to mention, ng.dev.team is bringing some of their games to the console. Idk which ones.

Quote from: guest on 07/15/2015, 01:32 AMI just don't see the need for this thing anywhere.

Quote from: BigusSchmuck on 07/15/2015, 12:14 PMI mean do they really want to equate their system to the toilet that was the Jaguar?

Quote from: BigusSchmuck on 07/15/2015, 12:14 PMHate to be a boner killer here, but there is a reason why we don't see any new cartridge based system nowadays (unless you count the DS line). Wouldn't it be more economical to release them on a sd card or a variant of? Or CD based? I'm pretty sure if it gets the AES treatment ($200 per game yikes) it'll likely fail.. BTW, I'm still confused why they chose to use a shell of a failed system. I mean do they really want to equate their system to the toilet that was the Jaguar?

Quote from: guest on 07/15/2015, 01:56 PMWhat they're really asking for is for the already converted collectards to gush to one another about how amazingly collectible this fantasic new collectible product is.

Quote from: Steve WoitaWhat's going on under the hood?

Specifically, and at this current time, it's an FPGA and ARM system. If a developer wants to make a Neo Geo game, they would include an HDL (Hardware Description Language) file that configures the FPGA to operate like a Neo Geo.
...
We'll be supplying the validated cores for developers to choose from and you don't have to know how to program an FPGA to make a game, it just gives us a lot of hardware flexibility, I didn't want to lock us in to a specific ASIC design.

Quote from: BigusSchmuck on 07/15/2015, 12:14 PMHate to be a boner killer here, but there is a reason why we don't see any new cartridge based system nowadays (unless you count the DS line). Wouldn't it be more economical to release them on a sd card or a variant of? Or CD based? I'm pretty sure if it gets the AES treatment ($200 per game yikes) it'll likely fail.. BTW, I'm still confused why they chose to use a shell of a failed system. I mean do they really want to equate their system to the toilet that was the Jaguar?

Quote from: esteban on 07/15/2015, 03:25 PM

Quote from: BigusSchmuck on 07/15/2015, 12:14 PMHate to be a boner killer here, but there is a reason why we don't see any new cartridge based system nowadays (unless you count the DS line). Wouldn't it be more economical to release them on a sd card or a variant of? Or CD based? I'm pretty sure if it gets the AES treatment ($200 per game yikes) it'll likely fail.. BTW, I'm still confused why they chose to use a shell of a failed system. I mean do they really want to equate their system to the toilet that was the Jaguar?

Supposedly, recycling the Jag mold cuts down on development and manufacturing hiccups (which would force further iterations of design and further prototyping of shell --> more $$$$).

I am the minority, but I think it is awesome that the Jaguar mold is being used.

The people who hate the Jaguar design are just haters.

The Genesis was an ugly wart, too, but that wouldn't stop me from appreciating it if it was reincarnated as a Blue-Ray player. YES, IT IS A NOVELTY, but that is the point, as far as I am concerned. Yes, I am intrigued by a Blue-Ray in a Genesis form factor. Total novelty. If it used the genuine molds of the Genesis, I'd feel it would be kinda neat (the FEKA LEGACY continues!)

Like I said, a novelty, but at least it is rooted in real video game history.

Also, co sided the alternative: a new, original design. Let's assume a modest budget for designing/prototyping new shell.


DO YOU REALLY THINK A NEW 2015 DESIGN WOULD BE INTERESTING? IT WOULD BE SHITE. LOOK AT ALL CONSUMER ELECTRONICS and consoles. Bland. Lame. Silly. Uninspired.

The Jaguar is far better than the bland shite you'd get today (remember, this kickstarter is on a budget, so the new shell design would be utilitarian at best, and ugly/impractical at worst).

JAG DESIGN:
It is meant to be a novelty, but the fact that it is not a reproduction, but the *actual* mold makes it seem more viscerally connected to a real piece of video game history (dare I say video game *infamy* ...which makes it EVEN BETTER).

BOTTOM LINE: I would not be surprised if the REAL MOTIVE  for using the Jag Design is to funnel money to the guy who owns the molds. I am not a scammer, but if I was, I can think of countless ways to structure a project where expenses seem 100% legit.

Quote from: esteban on 07/15/2015, 03:25 PMThe people who hate the Jaguar design are just haters.

Quote from: esteban on 07/15/2015, 03:25 PMThe Genesis was an ugly wart, too, but that wouldn't stop me from appreciating it if it was reincarnated as a Blue-Ray player. YES, IT IS A NOVELTY, but that is the point, as far as I am concerned. Yes, I am intrigued by a Blue-Ray in a Genesis form factor. Total novelty. If it used the genuine molds of the Genesis, I'd feel it would be kinda neat (the FEKA LEGACY continues!)

Quote from: guest on 07/15/2015, 04:30 PM

---

TL;DR - the only Jag design worth replicating with modern hardware is the E-Type.  :mrgreen:

Quote from: wildfruit on 07/15/2015, 04:54 PMY u no love F type?

Quote from: NecroPhile on 07/15/2015, 04:30 PMTL;DR - the only Jag design worth replicating with modern hardware is the E-Type.  :mrgreen:

Quote from: esteban on 07/15/2015, 03:25 PMI am the minority, but I think it is awesome that the Jaguar mold is being used.

The people who hate the Jaguar design are just haters.

Quote from: guest on 08/17/2015, 03:59 PMA better money making scheme would be to not even bother with the console. Just make limited edition packaged collectible game carts with foil, iridescent and holographic accents and packed-in randomized sticker sets and crap. The games being not actually playable on anything would keep the collectibles from being ruined by game openers.

Quote from: ctophil on 09/07/2015, 03:55 PMJust imagine Square Enix, Konami, and Capcom jumping on board to revive their classic Secret of Mana & Final Fantasy titles, Castlevania, or even Mega Man?  If they find the HD Remasters working out, maybe they will even develop original content.

Quote from: ctophil on 09/07/2015, 03:55 PMI believe the RETRO VGS will be more than just a system for indie titles.  It could be a home for old classics receiving HD Remasters, a breath of fresh air for budding game developers to achieve their dream of developing for a classic system like the SNES, Genesis, or even the Neo Geo, and you can even develop new games that take advantage of the full capabilities of the RETRO VGS.

Just imagine Square Enix, Konami, and Capcom jumping on board to revive their classic Secret of Mana & Final Fantasy titles, Castlevania, or even Mega Man?  If they find the HD Remasters working out, maybe they will even develop original content.

QuoteAnd, RVGS will be a great system to play all the new and upcoming homebrew titles for Atari 2600, Intellivision, Colecovision and NES (possible 16-bit consoles in the future, however, no reliable cores for these have been made yet) giving you all lots of new games to play on RVGS from day one!

QuoteI think it will make a statement to the mainstream console manufacturers.

Quote from: ctophil on 09/07/2015, 03:55 PMJust imagine Square Enix, Konami, and Capcom jumping on board to revive their classic Secret of Mana & Final Fantasy titles, Castlevania, or even Mega Man?  If they find the HD Remasters working out, maybe they will even develop original content.

I haven't heard anything about the system's price yet until the Kickstarter next week.  I wouldn't judge its price just yet until the official announcement.  Please support the RETRO VGS if you can.  I think it will make a statement to the mainstream console manufacturers. 

Quote from: ctophil on 09/07/2015, 03:55 PMI think the RETRO VGS is a great idea.  I've bought reproduction carts of classic games for the past 3 years, as well as homebrew games.  I love buying old NES, SNES, or Sega Genesis games that never got an English translation and then finding new life in a repro cart complete with box, manual, and poster fully in English.  I believe the RETRO VGS will be more than just a system for indie titles.  It could be a home for old classics receiving HD Remasters, a breath of fresh air for budding game developers to achieve their dream of developing for a classic system like the SNES, Genesis, or even the Neo Geo, and you can even develop new games that take advantage of the full capabilities of the RETRO VGS.

Just imagine Square Enix, Konami, and Capcom jumping on board to revive their classic Secret of Mana & Final Fantasy titles, Castlevania, or even Mega Man?  If they find the HD Remasters working out, maybe they will even develop original content.

Frankly, I'm tired of the "digital revolution," where everything is downloadable to your hard drive.  Sure, it's convenient.  But I WANT a physical instruction manual, collectible maps & posters, and decent artwork on my game box.  Mike Kennedy knows his RETRO business because he is developing a console that is striving to stay away from the digital world (no internet connection for updates and such).  20 years from now, I want the RETRO VGS to still function without needing some patch from the Internet, unlike the Xbox One where it tries to connect to the Internet for every little thing.  I can't even play Killer Instinct on Xbox One without it saying, "The Console needs to go online for a game update."  You can't even save the game without the update?!?

I haven't heard anything about the system's price yet until the Kickstarter next week.  I wouldn't judge its price just yet until the official announcement.  Please support the RETRO VGS if you can.  I think it will make a statement to the mainstream console manufacturers. 

Quote from: ctophil on 09/07/2015, 03:55 PMPlease support the RETRO VGS if you can.  I think it will make a statement to the mainstream console manufacturers. 

Quote from: guest on 09/07/2015, 09:19 PM

Quote from: ctophil on 09/07/2015, 03:55 PMPlease support the RETRO VGS if you can.  I think it will make a statement to the mainstream console manufacturers. 

You're hilarious. Have you heard of the Ouya?

It tried to make a statement exactly like the one you said. And it failed miserably.

How many units did the damn thing sell anyway? About 50,000? The Ouya company was so embarrassed, they couldn't even reveal their sales numbers.

This thing is targeting an even smaller audience, with far less power and 3-4 times the price.

I mean, at least Ouya got a mobile port of Sonic CD. This thing could barely get Shovel Knight.

Quote from: glazball on 09/09/2015, 12:47 AMI don't mind being called an idiot.  It's a pretty idiotic idea, I'm quite aware of that.  Vinyl lovers still have their vinyl because the small minority spoke with their money over the years, and perhaps us cart lovers can do the same.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 09/09/2015, 12:14 PMThere is no reason to compare what NG:DEV does with this thing. Yes their Geo carts are hundreds of dollars, but their Dreamcast ports are like $60 because that's the production cost difference between CD-ROM and carts build of mutiple 24 pin ROMs when you start talking about games that big, much bigger than any cart SNK ever made, IIRC.

QuoteAnd frankly, if there was a snowball's chance in hell that the VGS would get even a single title as interesting as something from NG:DEV (who's games aren't even that great) even if it were $400, the system would be much more appealing. I don't see anything like that happening though.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 09/09/2015, 03:13 PMDo we have any solid info on the NG:Dev thing? I ask because that would be a huge deal.

Quote from: guest on 09/09/2015, 04:18 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 09/09/2015, 03:13 PMDo we have any solid info on the NG:Dev thing? I ask because that would be a huge deal.

Obviously they can't reveal specifics yet, but on their facebook page...

"NG:DEV.TEAM contacted us about developing games for the RETRO VGS! Yes, that get's us EXCITED! And it should get YOU excited too!"

https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/posts/831382946930977 (https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/posts/831382946930977)

In addition, NG.Dev.Team liked the Retro VGS facebook page, as well as Marvelous (who owns the Data East catalog), and DotEMU, who made those R-Type ports for Android and iOS.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 09/09/2015, 05:55 PM

Quote from: PukeSter on 09/09/2015, 04:18 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 09/09/2015, 03:13 PMDo we have any solid info on the NG:Dev thing? I ask because that would be a huge deal.

Obviously they can't reveal specifics yet, but on their facebook page...

"NG:DEV.TEAM contacted us about developing games for the RETRO VGS! Yes, that get's us EXCITED! And it should get YOU excited too!"

https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/posts/831382946930977 (https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/posts/831382946930977)

In addition, NG.Dev.Team liked the Retro VGS facebook page, as well as Marvelous (who owns the Data East catalog), and DotEMU, who made those R-Type ports for Android and iOS.

Hmm, that's not very impressive.

Quote from: Lost Monkey on 09/12/2015, 08:45 PMDid anyone catch the cardboard printed prototype they posted a few days ago?  Gettin' excited!

Quote from: guest on 09/12/2015, 07:29 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 09/09/2015, 05:55 PM

Quote from: guest on 09/09/2015, 04:18 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 09/09/2015, 03:13 PMDo we have any solid info on the NG:Dev thing? I ask because that would be a huge deal.

Obviously they can't reveal specifics yet, but on their facebook page...

"NG:DEV.TEAM contacted us about developing games for the RETRO VGS! Yes, that get's us EXCITED! And it should get YOU excited too!"

https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/posts/831382946930977 (https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/posts/831382946930977)

In addition, NG.Dev.Team liked the Retro VGS facebook page, as well as Marvelous (who owns the Data East catalog), and DotEMU, who made those R-Type ports for Android and iOS.

Hmm, that's not very impressive.

It's now official.

Gunlord coming to Retro VGS...Last Hope Pink Bullets will come out later too.

https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS?fref=ts (https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS?fref=ts)

Quote from: guest on 09/13/2015, 02:17 AMNG:Dev likes to cash in on AESholes, so what. Yay another game available for actual retro consoles that I can buy literally right now and play to the end, before the Retro VGS hits the market.

Now if NGDEV starts developing NEW games to it, that's another story.

Quote from: glazball on 09/14/2015, 01:17 PM

Quote from: Psycho Punch on 09/13/2015, 02:17 AMNG:Dev likes to cash in on AESholes, so what. Yay another game available for actual retro consoles that I can buy literally right now and play to the end, before the Retro VGS hits the market.

Now if NGDEV starts developing NEW games to it, that's another story.

Fixed that for you.  And who's to say the RVGS Gunlord won't be improved or expanded somehow?  And BT to answer your question: no.  I would like to play it but don't have it on DC.  Believe it or not, some of us can't buy every game we want when we want.

Guess we'll see if they put up or shut up this week when they launch their KS.

Quote from: NecroPhile on 09/14/2015, 03:50 PMWhen it comes to NG:Dev, the Dreamcast is a non-issue, as they've said flat out that they're done with Dreamcast due to poor sales vs. downloaded torrents.  I'm not at all surprised that they're going after a more secure delivery system, though targeting the xbone or ps4 makes more sense.

Quote from: CGQuarterly on 09/14/2015, 04:38 PMI don't really understand why they are bringing Gunlord to the RetroVGS, unless they are somehow packaging the Neo-Geo ROM with Neo-Geo emulator and sticking a front-end on it so that it's not obvious. 

Quote from: guest on 09/07/2015, 09:19 PM

Quote from: ctophil on 09/07/2015, 03:55 PMPlease support the RETRO VGS if you can.  I think it will make a statement to the mainstream console manufacturers. 

You're hilarious. Have you heard of the Ouya?

It tried to make a statement exactly like the one you said. And it failed miserably.

How many units did the damn thing sell anyway? About 50,000? The Ouya company was so embarrassed, they couldn't even reveal their sales numbers.

This thing is targeting an even smaller audience, with far less power and 3-4 times the price.

I mean, at least Ouya got a mobile port of Sonic CD. This thing could barely get Shovel Knight.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 09/14/2015, 04:31 PMThat just doesn't make any sense.  The Neo Geo X was from Tommo, and I think NG:Dev has proven that they're more than willing to make games at prol pricing. What else do you call porting all your stuff to Dreamcast and selling the games for hundreds less than the Geo versions?

Quote from: CGQuarterly on 09/14/2015, 05:19 PMNG:Dev better hope that people don't figure out how to extract the game ROM out of the RetroVGS app, then.

Quote from: guest on 09/14/2015, 03:50 PMWhen it comes to NG:Dev, the Dreamcast is a non-issue, as they've said flat out that they're done with Dreamcast due to poor sales vs. downloaded torrents.  I'm not at all surprised that they're going after a more secure delivery system, though targeting the xbone or ps4 makes more sense.

Quote from: esteban on 09/14/2015, 07:52 PMProles on parade

Quote from: esteban on 09/14/2015, 07:52 PMI am still waiting for it to be cancelled, but I fear ego and hubris will prevent this silly thing from dying gracefully.

Quote from: CGQuarterly on 09/14/2015, 10:30 PM

Quote from: esteban on 09/14/2015, 07:52 PMI am still waiting for it to be cancelled, but I fear ego and hubris will prevent this silly thing from dying gracefully.

It's death will come in the form of a failed KickStarter campaign.

Edit: In case you weren't aware, they want MILLIONS of dollars in KickStarter funds.

Quote from: guest on 09/14/2015, 11:40 PMMillions? Plural?  :roll:

Quote from: RetroVGSWill YOU be one of the first 500 backers to score an Early Bird Black Retro VGS for $299? Or go for one of the exclusive colors for $349? Decisions that will need to be made in the coming days! The countdown has officially begun.

Quote from: crazydean on 09/15/2015, 12:05 AMWhile on facebook, looking for some info about the kickstarter, this is the first comment I read:

"I'm hope I'm in the first 500. I'm going for the exclusive but will there be a bigger bundle that'll include launch titles ir other things? I'm going with whatever the best package ends up being whatever the price. I'm selling old gaming stuff to raise the money so the sooner I know how much I need the sooner I can start raising the money."

Somebody please tell me this is a shill account started by the makers of the RVGS to make their product look appealing.

Quote from: guest on 09/15/2015, 01:15 AM

Quote from: crazydean on 09/15/2015, 12:05 AMWhile on facebook, looking for some info about the kickstarter, this is the first comment I read:

"I'm hope I'm in the first 500. I'm going for the exclusive but will there be a bigger bundle that'll include launch titles ir other things? I'm going with whatever the best package ends up being whatever the price. I'm selling old gaming stuff to raise the money so the sooner I know how much I need the sooner I can start raising the money."

Somebody please tell me this is a shill account started by the makers of the RVGS to make their product look appealing.

Sounds more like a troll than a shill.

Quote from: CGQuarterly on 09/15/2015, 01:05 AMI'm curious to see if KS will end up pulling the campaign, since the RetroVGS folks are violating the rules by not having a working prototype.

Quote from: glazball on 09/15/2015, 01:41 PMAnd that's IF they even use Kickstarter.  If they really don't have a working prototype, they may use some other site to raise money.

Quote from: CGQuarterly on 09/14/2015, 10:30 PM

Quote from: esteban on 09/14/2015, 07:52 PMI am still waiting for it to be cancelled, but I fear ego and hubris will prevent this silly thing from dying gracefully.

It's death will come in the form of a failed KickStarter campaign.

Edit: In case you weren't aware, they want MILLIONS of dollars in KickStarter funds.

Quote from: BlueBMW on 09/17/2015, 02:46 PMNot sure if someone pointed this out yet, looks like they're going to use indiegogo instead of kickstarter.  Probably because of the whole prototype issue people were mentioning.

QuoteHow can I buy a console and games when they're available?

The RETRO VGS will be sold initially via a Summer 2015 Indiegogo campaign.  At the conclusion of the campaign we will continue to take pre-orders on our website and on FunStock.co.uk. More retail options to be announced.  Finished consoles will be delivering in the order purchased beginning mid 2016.

Quote from: BlueBMW on 09/17/2015, 02:46 PMNot sure if someone pointed this out yet, looks like they're going to use indiegogo instead of kickstarter.  Probably because of the whole prototype issue people were mentioning.

Quote from: BlueBMW on 09/17/2015, 02:46 PMNot sure if someone pointed this out yet, looks like they're going to use indiegogo instead of kickstarter.  Probably because of the whole prototype issue people were mentioning.

Quote from: CGQuarterly on 09/17/2015, 06:09 PMI wouldn't be surprised if they fail to reach $10,000.  Unless someone can't point me to some (because admittedly I am an out-of-touch old person) I haven't really seen any hype for this system anywhere.  I feel like Mike thinks that there are thousands of gamers champing at the bit to pre-order this thing as soon as the campaign goes live.  Are there?  He wants to raise a couple of million dollars, and at $300 each, he's going to need over 6,500 pre-orders.

Quote from: CGQuarterly on 09/17/2015, 06:09 PMI wouldn't be surprised if they fail to reach $10,000.  Unless someone can't point me to some (because admittedly I am an out-of-touch old person) I haven't really seen any hype for this system anywhere.  I feel like Mike thinks that there are thousands of gamers champing at the bit to pre-order this thing as soon as the campaign goes live.  Are there?  He wants to raise a couple of million dollars, and at $300 each, he's going to need over 6,500 pre-orders.

Quote from: guest on 09/17/2015, 06:28 PMThey might also use IndieGoGo for that thing where they get funds regardless of meeting goals..

Quote from: elmer on 09/17/2015, 12:22 PMHahaha ... it just keeps on getting weirder!  :lol:

Now they've dropped the s-video output and added a large "expansion" connector to the back.

It looks like a pretty huge connector ... I wonder what kind stresses on the motherboard they're going to get from people plugging and unplugging all their RETRO VGS "old cartridge" expansions.

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 09/17/2015, 06:28 PMThey might also use IndieGoGo for that thing where they get funds regardless of meeting goals..

Quote from: NecroPhile on 09/18/2015, 09:39 AM

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 09/17/2015, 06:28 PMThey might also use IndieGoGo for that thing where they get funds regardless of meeting goals..

They have a fixed funding model as well, where you only get paid if the goal is met.  They say that's the way theirs will be set up.

QuoteA prototype is not required to use Indiegogo; however, it is highly encouraged.

Quote from: guest on 09/19/2015, 12:35 PMI didn't see any kind of disclaimer that the RVGS indiegogo is opting to not keep everyone's money if it doesn't meet the minimum requirement of $2 million and they worded it very specifically that if they don't get that, it's not happening.

So I think that in the end, it will be much more profitable for them than anyone speculated.

Quote from: guest on 09/19/2015, 12:35 PMI didn't see any kind of disclaimer that the RVGS indiegogo is opting to not keep everyone's money if it doesn't meet the minimum requirement of $2 million and they worded it very specifically that if they don't get that, it's not happening.

Quote from: elmer on 09/19/2015, 01:17 PM

Quote from: CrackTiger on 09/19/2015, 12:35 PMI didn't see any kind of disclaimer that the RVGS indiegogo is opting to not keep everyone's money if it doesn't meet the minimum requirement of $2 million and they worded it very specifically that if they don't get that, it's not happening.

It's using the "Fixed Funding" option on IndieGogo, it says so right at the top of the page. They only get the money if they reach their $2M goal.

BUT ... now they're shifting the goalposts again. There's no confirmation of the hardware specs, it's all been left vague, and there's now mention that they'll need to hit $4M in order to put in the full-sized FPGA that they've been promising.

The FAQ on their own website now says "System Specifications: Pending Revision".

I can't believe that anyone would be stupid enough to put down money on this with not only no protoype, but now without even clear specs of what they'll be buying!  #-o

What a disaster!  ](*,)

QuoteMore smoke and mirrors:
(http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/mvsphotos/Screen%20Shot%202015-09-19%20at%2011.18.44%20AM.png)
 
Their "prototype controller" playing a game on hardware that doesn't exist sure looks a lot like this:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61UUSNUSm2L._SL1000_.jpg)

Quote from: guest on 09/19/2015, 01:52 PMNail in the coffin, folks.

Quote from: elmer on 09/19/2015, 01:17 PMBTW ... nice of them to say that the 3 "creators" will get paid $240,000 each out of the funding to pay them for their time.

Quote from: SuperGrafx on 09/19/2015, 02:47 PM

Quote from: elmer on 09/19/2015, 01:17 PMBTW ... nice of them to say that the 3 "creators" will get paid $240,000 each out of the funding to pay them for their time.

And that right there is reason for me to not ever fund this.
No way are these douchebag hipsters getting any of my money.

Quote from: johnnykonami on 09/19/2015, 02:06 PMJust wow.  I don't know why they thought they could get away with that.  Between this, having "Retro" as part of the moniker, and using the Jag shell (seriously, how hard would it be to sculpt an original mold), this thing was doomed to fail.  Ouya part 2.

Quote from: guest on 09/19/2015, 03:53 PMEDIT: This is my favorite part. If you pay $500 you get a Retro VGS with a low serial number starting with 1. LOL. 6 people have already bought that.

Quote from: ctophil on 09/07/2015, 03:55 PMI think the RETRO VGS is a great idea.  I've bought reproduction carts of classic games for the past 3 years, as well as homebrew games.  I love buying old NES, SNES, or Sega Genesis games that never got an English translation and then finding new life in a repro cart complete with box, manual, and poster fully in English.  I believe the RETRO VGS will be more than just a system for indie titles.  It could be a home for old classics receiving HD Remasters, a breath of fresh air for budding game developers to achieve their dream of developing for a classic system like the SNES, Genesis, or even the Neo Geo, and you can even develop new games that take advantage of the full capabilities of the RETRO VGS.

Just imagine Square Enix, Konami, and Capcom jumping on board to revive their classic Secret of Mana & Final Fantasy titles, Castlevania, or even Mega Man?  If they find the HD Remasters working out, maybe they will even develop original content.

Frankly, I'm tired of the "digital revolution," where everything is downloadable to your hard drive.  Sure, it's convenient.  But I WANT a physical instruction manual, collectible maps & posters, and decent artwork on my game box.  Mike Kennedy knows his RETRO business because he is developing a console that is striving to stay away from the digital world (no internet connection for updates and such).  20 years from now, I want the RETRO VGS to still function without needing some patch from the Internet, unlike the Xbox One where it tries to connect to the Internet for every little thing.  I can't even play Killer Instinct on Xbox One without it saying, "The Console needs to go online for a game update."  You can't even save the game without the update?!?

I haven't heard anything about the system's price yet until the Kickstarter next week.  I wouldn't judge its price just yet until the official announcement.  Please support the RETRO VGS if you can.  I think it will make a statement to the mainstream console manufacturers. 

Quote from: mickcris on 09/19/2015, 06:31 PMinteresting post by kevtris:
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/?p=3325199 (http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/?p=3325199)

Quote from: elmer on 09/19/2015, 07:08 PM

Quote from: mickcris on 09/19/2015, 06:31 PMinteresting post by kevtris:
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/?p=3325199 (http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/?p=3325199)

Now that, I'd buy! I may have to create an account on AtariAge just to say that.  :wink:

Isn't it funny that he's competent enough to actually have working versions of his hardware designs all done on a shoestring budget, but the RETRO VGS guys seem more interested in going to conventions and taking pictures of themselves.  :-k

Quote from: esteban on 09/19/2015, 05:31 PMSeeing how well-thought-out the RVGS is, I am sure the "no system updates" stance will never come back to haunt them.

Quote from: Mathius on 09/19/2015, 07:49 PMHoly Harry Truman this looks bad! I envision future law suits by idiot mouth breathers who backed the thing without anything to show for their misplaced trust.

Quote from: grolt on 09/19/2015, 08:11 PM

Quote from: Mathius on 09/19/2015, 07:49 PMHoly Harry Truman this looks bad! I envision future law suits by idiot mouth breathers who backed the thing without anything to show for their misplaced trust.

Judging by the first day funding, this will never even come close to reaching the $2m goal, so they won't have to worry about any lawsuits.

Quote from: guest on 09/19/2015, 08:37 PM

Quote from: grolt on 09/19/2015, 08:11 PM

Quote from: Mathius on 09/19/2015, 07:49 PMHoly Harry Truman this looks bad! I envision future law suits by idiot mouth breathers who backed the thing without anything to show for their misplaced trust.

Judging by the first day funding, this will never even come close to reaching the $2m goal, so they won't have to worry about any lawsuits.

I'm not saying it's going to make the goal, but if they replicate today's pledges every day until time's up, they will have reached $2.2M.

Quote from: esteban on 09/19/2015, 09:00 PMThe RVGS would need a lot of media exposure from popular TubeYou folks to reach 2 mil, I reckon.

Funding depends upon (1) savvy social media skills (2) lucky viral randomness (3) influential sites/personalities championing your cause...

Does RVGS have any of these?

Quote from: grolt on 09/19/2015, 08:49 PM

Quote from: guest on 09/19/2015, 08:37 PM

Quote from: grolt on 09/19/2015, 08:11 PM

Quote from: Mathius on 09/19/2015, 07:49 PMHoly Harry Truman this looks bad! I envision future law suits by idiot mouth breathers who backed the thing without anything to show for their misplaced trust.

Judging by the first day funding, this will never even come close to reaching the $2m goal, so they won't have to worry about any lawsuits.

I'm not saying it's going to make the goal, but if they replicate today's pledges every day until time's up, they will have reached $2.2M.

If we're to use Shenmue III as a benchmark, and perhaps that's being generous considering it had massive E3 exposure, a built-in fanbase and an excellent marketing campaign with rewards and feedback directly from Yu Suzuki, but that one made $2.2m in its opening 8 hours and then $4.1m for the remaining 31 days of the Kickstarter.  If we apply Shenmue's trajectory to RetroVGS, it would close with $140,000.  Crowdfunding campaigns of this sort tend to be incredibly front-loaded, so it would really be a miracle if it reached $2 million, or anything remotely close to that, really.

Quote from: esteban on 09/19/2015, 09:00 PM(2) lucky viral randomness

QuoteMeet the RVGS social media team.

(https://i.imgur.com/0BaqAhu.jpg)

Quote from: BlueBMW on 09/19/2015, 10:02 PMReading the comments on their Facebook page kind of gives me the same vibe I'm hearing everywhere.  People are interested but want more concrete information on what exactly it will be.  Right now its too vague to be worth throwing money down on.  Also most people seem to be noting that it is too expensive.

In my opinion, the fact that these guys want such a big chunk for their "salaries" is a big turn off.  If its a new business venture then maybe they should scrape by on a minimal stipend until the product starts to turn a profit and then go ahead and pay themselves more.  Paying themselves big on the front end seems to reminiscent of the dot com bubble... lots of funding, big salaries for hopes and dreams that turned into nothing.  Companies went belly up and all the money was gone but the people who were in charge got big paychecks while it lasted.

Quote from: BlueBMW on 09/19/2015, 10:02 PMIn my opinion, the fact that these guys want such a big chunk for their "salaries" is a big turn off.  If its a new business venture then maybe they should scrape by on a minimal stipend until the product starts to turn a profit and then go ahead and pay themselves more.  Paying themselves big on the front end seems to reminiscent of the dot com bubble... lots of funding, big salaries for hopes and dreams that turned into nothing.  Companies went belly up and all the money was gone but the people who were in charge got big paychecks while it lasted.

Quote from: Mathius on 09/19/2015, 10:14 PM

Quote from: BlueBMW on 09/19/2015, 10:02 PMReading the comments on their Facebook page kind of gives me the same vibe I'm hearing everywhere.  People are interested but want more concrete information on what exactly it will be.  Right now its too vague to be worth throwing money down on.  Also most people seem to be noting that it is too expensive.

In my opinion, the fact that these guys want such a big chunk for their "salaries" is a big turn off.  If its a new business venture then maybe they should scrape by on a minimal stipend until the product starts to turn a profit and then go ahead and pay themselves more.  Paying themselves big on the front end seems to reminiscent of the dot com bubble... lots of funding, big salaries for hopes and dreams that turned into nothing.  Companies went belly up and all the money was gone but the people who were in charge got big paychecks while it lasted.

Their front-end salaries won't mean anything when they get sued for product infringement for the 3rd party Wii U pad.

Quote from: PukeSter on 09/19/2015, 11:56 PM

Quote from: Mathius on 09/19/2015, 10:14 PM

Quote from: BlueBMW on 09/19/2015, 10:02 PMReading the comments on their Facebook page kind of gives me the same vibe I'm hearing everywhere.  People are interested but want more concrete information on what exactly it will be.  Right now its too vague to be worth throwing money down on.  Also most people seem to be noting that it is too expensive.

In my opinion, the fact that these guys want such a big chunk for their "salaries" is a big turn off.  If its a new business venture then maybe they should scrape by on a minimal stipend until the product starts to turn a profit and then go ahead and pay themselves more.  Paying themselves big on the front end seems to reminiscent of the dot com bubble... lots of funding, big salaries for hopes and dreams that turned into nothing.  Companies went belly up and all the money was gone but the people who were in charge got big paychecks while it lasted.

Their front-end salaries won't mean anything when they get sued for product infringement for the 3rd party Wii U pad.

They actually worked out a licensing deal for the controller.

It's a cheap, third party controller that is notoriously shitty.

That's why it's only $25.

Quote from: guest on 09/19/2015, 11:01 PMThey're still asking for half of what they claim their salaries are to work on this "full-time", but does anybody believe that these guys won't be doing any other kind of work to maintain their income?

Quote from: guest on 09/19/2015, 11:59 PM

Quote from: guest on 09/19/2015, 11:56 PM

Quote from: Mathius on 09/19/2015, 10:14 PM

Quote from: BlueBMW on 09/19/2015, 10:02 PMReading the comments on their Facebook page kind of gives me the same vibe I'm hearing everywhere.  People are interested but want more concrete information on what exactly it will be.  Right now its too vague to be worth throwing money down on.  Also most people seem to be noting that it is too expensive.

In my opinion, the fact that these guys want such a big chunk for their "salaries" is a big turn off.  If its a new business venture then maybe they should scrape by on a minimal stipend until the product starts to turn a profit and then go ahead and pay themselves more.  Paying themselves big on the front end seems to reminiscent of the dot com bubble... lots of funding, big salaries for hopes and dreams that turned into nothing.  Companies went belly up and all the money was gone but the people who were in charge got big paychecks while it lasted.

Their front-end salaries won't mean anything when they get sued for product infringement for the 3rd party Wii U pad.

They actually worked out a licensing deal for the controller.

It's a cheap, third party controller that is notoriously shitty.

That's why it's only $25.

You can't call that a "prototype" controller then.

Quote from: guest on 09/19/2015, 11:59 PM

Quote from: guest on 09/19/2015, 11:56 PM

Quote from: Mathius on 09/19/2015, 10:14 PMTheir front-end salaries won't mean anything when they get sued for product infringement for the 3rd party Wii U pad.

They actually worked out a licensing deal for the controller.

It's a cheap, third party controller that is notoriously shitty.

That's why it's only $25.

You can't call that a "prototype" controller then.

Quote from: NightWolve on 09/20/2015, 12:08 AM

Quote from: guest on 09/19/2015, 11:59 PM

Quote from: guest on 09/19/2015, 11:56 PM

Quote from: Mathius on 09/19/2015, 10:14 PMTheir front-end salaries won't mean anything when they get sued for product infringement for the 3rd party Wii U pad.

They actually worked out a licensing deal for the controller.

It's a cheap, third party controller that is notoriously shitty.

That's why it's only $25.

You can't call that a "prototype" controller then.

Hah, glad somebody updated the info on that... OK, so there was an explanation, but yet calling it a prototype as if to take credit for the design is strange. Should we expect better from the guys that wanted the Atari Jaguar shell ??  :lol:

Quote from: mickcris on 09/20/2015, 07:32 AMIirc they already covered the cost of the moulds. They sold clear console and cart shells over at Atari age earlier this year.

Quote from: mickcris on 09/20/2015, 07:32 AMIirc they already covered the cost of the moulds. They sold clear console and cart shells over at Atari age earlier this year.

Quote from: guest on 09/20/2015, 10:12 AMIf the RVGS doesn't pull off a miracle and get off the ground, the guy with the mold can make decent money continuing to sell plastic shells in various colors.

Quote from: guest on 09/20/2015, 04:09 PMhttp://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/page-60#entry3325199 (http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/page-60#entry3325199)

Even Kevtris is kicking them in the tip of their peepees.

lol

Quote from: Grant-Davidson McVittieThink I have to cancel my contribution. Been reading in the forums, looks like there's quite a bit of stuff going on behind the scenes, and that last minute lack of proper FPGA implementation (that is what was being advertised all along) unless stretch goal is made kinda ruined it for me. Also I hear that Kevtris is no longer involved, which is disheartening for sure. Sorry guys. If it gets off the ground I'll be first in line to buy one from your online shop, no doubt.

Quote from: BlueBMW on 09/20/2015, 05:42 PMI wont lie its an awful lot of fun watching this trainwreck.

Quote from: CGQuarterly on 09/20/2015, 05:51 PM

Quote from: BlueBMW on 09/20/2015, 05:42 PMI wont lie its an awful lot of fun watching this trainwreck.

Agreed.  I feel like a bad person for enjoying it so much.  Initially I thought this was a cool idea, but it has been so badly mismanaged that it doesn't deserve to succeed.

Quote....bringing you a piece of hardware that you will be proud to own and display next to the other great gaming consoles in your collection.

Quote from: elmer on 09/20/2015, 06:27 PM

Quote from: CGQuarterly on 09/20/2015, 05:51 PM

Quote from: BlueBMW on 09/20/2015, 05:42 PMI wont lie its an awful lot of fun watching this trainwreck.

Agreed.  I feel like a bad person for enjoying it so much.  Initially I thought this was a cool idea, but it has been so badly mismanaged that it doesn't deserve to succeed.

It's fascinating to watch.

The thing is ... it didn't have to go this badly. It really is just a case of total mismanagement.

The idea was never going to work long term, because the economics for their potential developers are just wrong.

But I truly believe that if they could have kept the whole thing under some form of control, then they'd probably have got to the point of being funded and then producing a console and a couple of cartridges before the whole thing collapsed.

But it's been terribly bungled from the start. Mike Kennedy is definitely going to be one of the first candidates to get on the Golgafrincham "B" Ark.

The new "update" on the IGG page is an absolute joke.

To paraphrase ... "Everything is going well. Ignore the doomsayers, they're just misinformed. Trust me."  :shock:

That's it ... no new information about the hardware and the developers, just "Trust me and my team ... we're awesome!".  #-o

Quote from: johnnykonami on 09/20/2015, 06:57 PM... exclusive games that you couldn't get anywhere else. 

Quote from: guest on 09/20/2015, 07:36 PM

Quote from: johnnykonami on 09/20/2015, 06:57 PM... exclusive games that you couldn't get anywhere else. 

It was hard for the original Atari Jaguar to court game devs, and that was back when there was some prayer of success, as the console at least was running on similarly powered hardware to the rest of that Console Generation. (It was, however, 64 bits, if you did the math! :D ) Even with that, the Atari Jaguar's library was an entire 44 games, only about half of which were exclusives.

Now you have this Jaguar-wannabe, which is under-powered compared to the Xbone, PS4 and WiiU, has no market penetration what-so-ever, and doesn't even have prototype hardware or a dev kit? The chance of someone willing to sign up as an exclusive dev is nill.

In short, its the right idea, but they don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting someone to develop exclusive games.

Quote from: wildfruit on 09/20/2015, 06:42 PMMmmm Schadenfreude. Delicioso.

Quote from: Lost Monkey on 09/20/2015, 04:57 PMCan we get Dan to come back now?

Quote from: elmer on 09/20/2015, 06:27 PM

Quote from: CGQuarterly on 09/20/2015, 05:51 PM

Quote from: BlueBMW on 09/20/2015, 05:42 PMI wont lie its an awful lot of fun watching this trainwreck.

Agreed.  I feel like a bad person for enjoying it so much.  Initially I thought this was a cool idea, but it has been so badly mismanaged that it doesn't deserve to succeed.

It's fascinating to watch.

The thing is ... it didn't have to go this badly. It really is just a case of total mismanagement.

The idea was never going to work long term, because the economics for their potential developers are just wrong.

But I truly believe that if they could have kept the whole thing under some form of control, then they'd probably have got to the point of being funded and then producing a console and a couple of cartridges before the whole thing collapsed.

But it's been terribly bungled from the start. Mike Kennedy is definitely going to be one of the first candidates to get on the Golgafrincham "B" Ark.

The new "update" on the IGG page is an absolute joke.

To paraphrase ... "Everything is going well. Ignore the doomsayers, they're just misinformed. Trust me."  :shock:

That's it ... no new information about the hardware and the developers, just "Trust me and my team ... we're awesome!".  #-o

QuoteKevtris, on 20 Sept 2015 - 5:24 PM, said:

Quotetcdev, on 20 Sept 2015 - 7:16 PM, said:
But what you forget Kevtris is that they have guys with decades of experience in the games industry. So they must know what they're doing - right? ;)

Yeah their HW guy knew more than me.  He thought that videogame systems of the era outputted 480i/30fps video and that the RVGS was ONLY going to output 480i on all the interfaces (RGB, NTSC, S-vid, HDMI(!)).  I had to tell 'em that videogame systems all outputted 240p/60fps.   That's the point I knew the project was in deep stuff. :-/   I have only been making FPGA videogame systems for 11 years, so I don't have much experience I guess.

Quote from: guest on 09/21/2015, 11:10 AMIt seems like they're all 'idea guys' with zero notion of reality. It's the hardware equivalent of a kid who wants to program Grand Theft Auto as his first game. "Our games are going to be bug free and if a bug is found in manufactured cartridges we will recall them and fix all of them! :)" yeah right buddy.

(https://web.archive.org/web/20161023223807im_/http://savygamer.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/bugs.png)

lol this just keeps getting better and better.

Quote from: guest on 09/21/2015, 01:09 PMThe VGA part was a joke, right?

Quote from: Lost Monkey on 09/21/2015, 02:05 PM

Quote from: guest on 09/21/2015, 01:09 PMThe VGA part was a joke, right?

That was my one embellishment...

Quote from: elmer on 09/21/2015, 10:55 AMMore wood for the funeral pyre ...

http://savygamer.co.uk/2015/09/21/please-do-not-give-retro-vgs-any-of-your-money/ (http://savygamer.co.uk/2015/09/21/please-do-not-give-retro-vgs-any-of-your-money/)

QuoteThey are appealing to the nostalgia factor of a console that calls back to an era of gaming familiar to Twenty-and Thirty-Somethings with disposable income. People have fond memories of these times, and romanticism for the memories of youth is a valuable commodity when it comes to crowdfunding. They are pitching a console with no networking capabilities, no frontend that appears before loading your game, no digital distribution, no optical media and no patches. I'm positing that this is also going to mean "no games".

QuoteThere's so many platforms that do not have this requirement. Having to pay up front for inventory and then hope you are able to sell it with a decent margin on top is a return to the dark ages. These kind of market conditions are the exact reason that the early Sega and Nintendo consoles shut out so many of the smaller developers. Developers that today are making the kind of games Retro VGS are alluding to would have been unable to exist within the market conditions they are attempting to resurrect. The very reason we have so many small studios independently creating and releasing games with a retro aesthetic and design is because of the democratizing effect of digital distribution, because of a wide variety of easily accessible tools with broad industry support, because of the scale of the install base and userbase of today's network capable platforms and marketplaces. I can't see many developers even being curious enough to buy the hardware to test/develop their game in the first place, never mind investing in a physical release for a platform with a tiny install base.

Quote from: elmer on 09/21/2015, 10:55 AMMore wood for the funeral pyre ...

http://savygamer.co.uk/2015/09/21/please-do-not-give-retro-vgs-any-of-your-money/ (http://savygamer.co.uk/2015/09/21/please-do-not-give-retro-vgs-any-of-your-money/)

Quote from: wildfruit on 09/21/2015, 06:06 PM

Quote from: elmer on 09/21/2015, 10:55 AMMore wood for the funeral pyre ...

http://savygamer.co.uk/2015/09/21/please-do-not-give-retro-vgs-any-of-your-money/ (http://savygamer.co.uk/2015/09/21/please-do-not-give-retro-vgs-any-of-your-money/)

Best part of that article was "funded by patreon" at the end. I thought it was a joke.
It wasn't.

Quote from: Gredler on 09/21/2015, 08:22 PMI keep thinking, how stoned were they when they sat down and planned this thing out. The system that will play all games, and be retro but modern, never patch, and cost as much as leading market competitors.

then I saw this pic on the indie go go go site,

TheWinningTeam1.jpg

Really stoned, apparently. Should've not hit the blunt before taking these promo pics and movie, I mean holy shit at least get some eye drops or something.

Quote from: guest on 09/21/2015, 10:26 PMThis post from Kevtris today about his own unit and his talks with the Retro VGS folks almost gave me a lolgasm:
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/page-74#entry3326949 (http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/page-74#entry3326949)

I think the Retro VGS will probably go down in history as the thing that gave us the Kevtris machine.

Quote from: Kevtris* You and your jag mold are like a mule with a spinning wheel.   Damned if anyone knows how he got it, and damned if he knows how to use it. (sorry Simpsons).

Quote from: guest on 09/21/2015, 10:26 PMThis post from Kevtris today about his own unit and his talks with the Retro VGS folks almost gave me a lolgasm:
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/page-74#entry3326949 (http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/page-74#entry3326949)

I think the Retro VGS will probably go down in history as the thing that gave us the Kevtris machine.

Quote from:  "pixelboy on AA"It's like the tech guys Mike associated himself with said "You got the Jag molds, and you want to put new hardware in Jag casings. That's cool, and we can help you with that, but we ain't working for free. Gather some money to pay us and then we'll start working on the hardware full time."

Quote from: guest on 09/22/2015, 07:24 AMAs bad as everything has been handled from the start, I still can't believe that they publicly attacked kevtris and started spewing specific bullshit against an established expert.

Quote from: Lost Monkey on 09/22/2015, 11:19 AMThe ring came off my pudding can...

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 09/21/2015, 10:38 PMThey are liars, big dreamers, and idiots. I don't think they've ever been high more than once in their life. Carl Sagan, Jimmy Hendrix, and Shakespeare got their ideas while smoking weed. These guys...sniffing Trix, maybe.

The thing with weed is, no matter how fucked up you get, when you wake up the next day you know if it was in fact a great idea you had or just something stupid. These guys still seem to think this stupid idea makes sense. You can't get actually that high and stay that way for months. People have certainly tried. It's not possible.

Quote from: DragonmasterDan on 09/22/2015, 09:27 AMSlick salesman with a hat:The name's Lanley, Lyle Lanely, and I've got the greatest idea you've ever..

Well, it's not for you. It's really more of an AtariAge idea.

Rube: What's it called?

Slick salesman with a hat: VGS

Rube: How's it spelled?

Slick salesman with a hat: V G S

Crowd chants VGS, VGS, VGS, VGS

Smart consumer: That thing looks like a fucking mess!

Slick salesman with a hat: You don't mean the VGS?

Miss Hoover: I hear those things are awfully loud,

Slick salesman with a hat: it plays as softly as a cloud

Convenience Store Owner: Is there a chance the company could fold?

Slick salesman with a hat: Not from what the kickstarter told

Drunk: What about us collectards?

Slick salesman with a hat:  you'll be given plastic carts

Grandpa: Were you sent here by the Devil?

Slick salesman with a hat:  No good sir I'm on the level

I swear it's gaming's only choice, the throw up your cash, and waste your joy.

Crowd chants VGS, VGS, VGS, VGS

Mom: The games all look like crap and broken!

Bob: Sorry mom the mob has spoken

Crowd chants VGS, VGS, VGS, VGS

Quote from: Opethian on 09/22/2015, 03:09 PMI don't get it how can this be retro unless they build a time machine?

Quote from: Opethian on 09/22/2015, 03:09 PMI don't get it how can this be retro unless they build a time machine?

Quote from: guest on 09/22/2015, 11:50 PMOnly by thoroughly butchering the English language and erasing 2 thousand years of linguistic history can retro just mean "old", and we need to stamp out that barbarism now.

Quote from: DragonmasterDan on 09/22/2015, 09:27 AMSlick salesman with a hat:The name's Lanley, Lyle Lanely, and I've got the greatest idea you've ever..

Well, it's not for you. It's really more of an AtariAge idea.

Rube: What's it called?

Slick salesman with a hat: VGS

Rube: How's it spelled?

Slick salesman with a hat: V G S

Crowd chants VGS, VGS, VGS, VGS

Smart consumer: That thing looks like a fucking mess!

Slick salesman with a hat: You don't mean the VGS?

Miss Hoover: I hear those things are awfully loud,

Slick salesman with a hat: it plays as softly as a cloud

Convenience Store Owner: Is there a chance the company could fold?

Slick salesman with a hat: Not from what the kickstarter told

Drunk: What about us collectards?

Slick salesman with a hat:  you'll be given plastic carts

Grandpa: Were you sent here by the Devil?

Slick salesman with a hat:  No good sir I'm on the level

I swear it's gaming's only choice, the throw up your cash, and waste your joy.

Crowd chants VGS, VGS, VGS, VGS

Mom: The games all look like crap and broken!

Bob: Sorry mom the mob has spoken

Crowd chants VGS, VGS, VGS, VGS

Quote from: elmer on 09/23/2015, 12:06 AM

Quote from: guest on 09/22/2015, 11:50 PMOnly by thoroughly butchering the English language and erasing 2 thousand years of linguistic history can retro just mean "old", and we need to stamp out that barbarism now.

It's just so "retro" of you to be so hung up on "definitions" and "meanings" and irrelevant crap like that.

"Retro" is a "feeling" ... and if you don't get that, you're just so ... so ... "square"; man!  :wink:

Quote from: DragonmasterDan on 09/22/2015, 09:27 AMSlick salesman with a hat:The name's Lanley, Lyle Lanely, and I've got the greatest idea you've ever..

Well, it's not for you. It's really more of an AtariAge idea.

Rube: What's it called?

Slick salesman with a hat: VGS

Rube: How's it spelled?

Slick salesman with a hat: V G S

Crowd chants VGS, VGS, VGS, VGS

Smart consumer: That thing looks like a fucking mess!

Slick salesman with a hat: You don't mean the VGS?

Miss Hoover: I hear those things are awfully loud,

Slick salesman with a hat: it plays as softly as a cloud

Convenience Store Owner: Is there a chance the company could fold?

Slick salesman with a hat: Not from what the kickstarter told

Drunk: What about us collectards?

Slick salesman with a hat:  you'll be given plastic carts

Grandpa: Were you sent here by the Devil?

Slick salesman with a hat:  No good sir I'm on the level

I swear it's gaming's only choice, the throw up your cash, and waste your joy.

Crowd chants VGS, VGS, VGS, VGS

Mom: The games all look like crap and broken!

Bob: Sorry mom the mob has spoken

Crowd chants VGS, VGS, VGS, VGS

Quote from: guest on 09/23/2015, 12:51 AMGood thing it's hip to be square.

Quote from: guest on 09/23/2015, 12:49 AMMeanwhile, in Japan

http://youtu.be/ont1iRQAz1A

Quote from: guest on 09/23/2015, 02:02 AMLess perv?

http://youtu.be/-k1s2DP_Tqk

NAILED IT.

Quote from: guest on 09/23/2015, 02:33 AMsomething cooler than the RetroVGS, that's for sure.

Quote from: guest on 09/23/2015, 03:01 AMhttp://youtu.be/8GGWRAT-W7o

Quote from: elmer on 09/23/2015, 02:57 AMSeriously ... the RETRO VGS is dead, and all the discussion/hopes of Kevtris's new potential FPGA retro board is going on at AtariAge.

Quote from: guest on 09/23/2015, 03:01 AMhttp://youtu.be/8GGWRAT-W7o

Quote from: elmer on 09/24/2015, 11:17 AMYou know that the RETRO VGS campaign is really off the rails when somebody produces such a brilliant parody of their sizzle video ...

http://youtu.be/yH76tRLVTQw

Quote from: CGQuarterly on 09/24/2015, 06:39 PMApparently Gary Kitchen, who the Retro VGS folks bragged about having as a backer, got his $1000+ pledge refunded.

Quote from: MikeKennedyHey Everyone,

We have confirmed, according to our IGG rep that Paypal is canceling some pledges for no reason(having to do with something triggering their fraud dept), and we are discussing with them now. We found out when one large backer said his pledge was reversed and he told us about it. Have any of you had this happen? If so let us know as we don't know if it's an isolated incident or happing frequently.

We will keep on keepin' on!

Mike

Quote from: elmer on 09/24/2015, 09:40 PMBut not for much longer!  :wink:

Quote from: elmer on 09/24/2015, 11:17 AMYou know that the RETRO VGS campaign is really off the rails when somebody produces such a brilliant parody of their sizzle video ...

http://youtu.be/yH76tRLVTQw

And yet another "ouch" ...

Quote from: PCEngineHell on 09/24/2015, 11:51 PMI mean, you know, why would I even want this hunk of shit? The price is crap. The games are not classics or even groundbreaking. There is no killer ap announced for this thing, and they are trying too hard with the hype buildup, so hard it is not even remotely convincing me that they can and will deliver everything they say they will. And I mean, for the asking price, there is all sorts of classic systems waiting to be bought with hundreds of legit classic titles available at better prices.

Quote from: PCEngineHell on 09/25/2015, 12:29 PMYou know when this campaign fails they will toss the blame on the different communities and naysayers, etc, and not at all on their flimsy but overly hyped ponzi scheme built upon an Atari Jaguar shell, or their terrible past track record with the Retro magazine.

QuoteUnlike many of the people who are infesting this project with negativity, people who have never written a line of code or developed any marketable hardware of any sort, Steve Woita and John Carlsen have been actually making successful and fun gaming software and hardware for a few decades for companies like Apple, Atari, Sega, Nintendo, Tengen, Activision, Iguana Entertainment, etc.

Quote from: elmer on 09/24/2015, 08:23 PM

Quote from: CGQuarterly on 09/24/2015, 06:39 PMApparently Gary Kitchen, who the Retro VGS folks bragged about having as a backer, got his $1000+ pledge refunded.

As damning as that would be, there's still the possibility that it's just a mistake ...

Quote from: MikeKennedyHey Everyone,

We have confirmed, according to our IGG rep that Paypal is canceling some pledges for no reason(having to do with something triggering their fraud dept), and we are discussing with them now. We found out when one large backer said his pledge was reversed and he told us about it. Have any of you had this happen? If so let us know as we don't know if it's an isolated incident or happing frequently.

We will keep on keepin' on!

Mike

Quote from: PCEngineHell on 09/25/2015, 12:29 PMYou know when this campaign fails they will toss the blame on the different communities and naysayers, etc, and not at all on their flimsy but overly hyped ponzi scheme built upon an Atari Jaguar shell, or their terrible past track record with the Retro magazine.

Quote from: guest on 09/25/2015, 01:06 PMt

Quote from: PCEngineHell on 09/25/2015, 12:29 PMYou know when this campaign fails they will toss the blame on the different communities and naysayers, etc, and not at all on their flimsy but overly hyped ponzi scheme built upon an Atari Jaguar shell, or their terrible past track record with the Retro magazine.

You don't have to wait for the campaign to fail, they have already planted that seed. This is from their facebook post from last weekend:

QuoteUnlike many of the people who are infesting this project with negativity, people who have never written a line of code or developed any marketable hardware of any sort, Steve Woita and John Carlsen have been actually making successful and fun gaming software and hardware for a few decades for companies like Apple, Atari, Sega, Nintendo, Tengen, Activision, Iguana Entertainment, etc.

Quote from: CGQuarterly on 09/25/2015, 02:20 PM

Quote from: elmer on 09/24/2015, 08:23 PM

Quote from: CGQuarterly on 09/24/2015, 06:39 PMApparently Gary Kitchen, who the Retro VGS folks bragged about having as a backer, got his $1000+ pledge refunded.

As damning as that would be, there's still the possibility that it's just a mistake ...

Quote from: MikeKennedyHey Everyone,

We have confirmed, according to our IGG rep that Paypal is canceling some pledges for no reason(having to do with something triggering their fraud dept), and we are discussing with them now. We found out when one large backer said his pledge was reversed and he told us about it. Have any of you had this happen? If so let us know as we don't know if it's an isolated incident or happing frequently.

We will keep on keepin' on!

Mike

So then why hasn't he re-backed it?

Quote from: Mathius on 09/25/2015, 02:26 PM

Quote from: PCEngineHell on 09/25/2015, 12:29 PMYou know when this campaign fails they will toss the blame on the different communities and naysayers, etc, and not at all on their flimsy but overly hyped ponzi scheme built upon an Atari Jaguar shell, or their terrible past track record with the Retro magazine.

It's not too bad of a mag. I enjoy it for what it is. I do agree though that it is a little bit more collectardy than when it began.

Quote from: PCEngineHell on 09/25/2015, 03:48 PM

Quote from: Mathius on 09/25/2015, 02:26 PM

Quote from: PCEngineHell on 09/25/2015, 12:29 PMYou know when this campaign fails they will toss the blame on the different communities and naysayers, etc, and not at all on their flimsy but overly hyped ponzi scheme built upon an Atari Jaguar shell, or their terrible past track record with the Retro magazine.

It's not too bad of a mag. I enjoy it for what it is. I do agree though that it is a little bit more collectardy than when it began.

The main problem with the mag is they did not deliver the product they said they would. The mag has had constant delays, and the quality and content is not where it should be really. A lot of people who backed it have been pretty unhappy with the results. Knowing that, for me its like, if these guys cant even manage to put out a classic game mag on a semi regular basis at a consistent quality, what makes anyone think they can deliver an actual game console, and actual games for that matter? Only the extremely naive would buy into this thing. The same types that buy into absurd time sharing deals, donate to the 700 Club, buy "AS SEEN ON TV" products, etc. Basically the same kinda fools that can be talked into buying anything.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 09/25/2015, 05:57 PMAre we talking about that UK mag that thinks the Spectrum is an significant as the SNES or some new thing? I assume it's something else, but I thought the UK one was "Retro" or something.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 09/25/2015, 05:57 PMAre we talking about that UK mag that thinks the Spectrum is an significant as the SNES or some new thing? I assume it's something else, but I thought the UK one was "Retro" or something.

Quote from: guest on 09/25/2015, 07:47 PMOh god, an hour long gamester81 video with these guys. Can anyone summarize this? :)

Quote from: Mathius on 09/25/2015, 08:37 PM

Quote from: guest on 09/25/2015, 07:47 PMOh god, an hour long gamester81 video with these guys. Can anyone summarize this? :)

This

Quote from: guest on 09/25/2015, 09:53 PMI can't watch gamester81. I hate to say it, but he annoys me more than metal Jesus.

Quote from: esteban on 09/25/2015, 10:19 PM

Quote from: guest on 09/25/2015, 09:53 PMI can't watch gamester81. I hate to say it, but he annoys me more than metal Jesus.

Metal Jesus I can stomach.

This gamester81 guy, I want to like him, but it has yet to happen. 

I really do try to give folks a chance, even when I know I will never "love" them.

Quote from: JohnCarlsonThe true visionary behind this project is Mike Kennedy. He's also a marketing person with a big heart, and he wants to reciprocate the enthusiasm our followers show us by being totally open and sharing everything. I get it, and I admire him for that. But he talks, and he talks about everything I show or tell him. Again, he's a marketing person, and that's what marketing people do.

Knowing this about Mike (and about marketing people in general), causes me (as an engineer) to be very cautious in choosing what I share with him. The reason for this is very simple: our inventions are valuable, and premature public disclosure of our inventions would cause us to lose the ability to protect them with patents.
For most of this year I've been working crazy long startup hours on this project. I've drained my own savings to pay for both my living expenses and building prototype circuits. I have invested a lot of time and money, I have a lot to show for it.

The problem is: I can't patent what I share publicly. As a result, I've been protecting my inventions as if they were my own children.

Quote from: elmer on 09/26/2015, 02:11 AMI'm still scratching my head trying to figure out how this could possibly have got even weirder
than before.

RETRO VGS first quick demo
http://youtu.be/Pi10cm1pQXM

Quotehttp://youtu.be/Pi10cm1pQXM

Quote from: elmer on 09/26/2015, 02:11 AMRETRO VGS first quick demo
http://youtu.be/Pi10cm1pQXM

Quote from: crazydean on 09/26/2015, 05:11 AM

Quote from: elmer on 09/26/2015, 02:11 AMRETRO VGS first quick demo
http://youtu.be/Pi10cm1pQXM

Uhh...that video doesn't tell me anything about the product. Also, that is no workbench. I have very limited electronic repair experience but even my paltry setup is not that crowded. I couldn't begin to test or repair anything with shit everywhere, like that guy has. Surely, this guy knows what he is doing, right?

Quote from: PCEngineHell on 09/26/2015, 06:28 AMLol all I see in the video is a kitchen table with some gear hastily thrown onto it to make it look like a test station. Better still is the Jaguar shell, only the top of a shell rather, laid on top of some kinda ITX looking computer board. I mean nothing is actually really being shown to prove its a real prototype.

QuoteKirkland James Hrabik No PR campaign could fix the underming of this project (from the beginning) from the haters in the world in this hobby. We've all seen it countless times before and this is just another one one of those times. These same haters are there dissing anyone that wants to go out there and make the gaming hobby a more fun place and I can't for the life of me see where their motives lie. One thing PR people would do is ban people and keep these public attacks at bay, and that is one mistake we've made in the beginning to show transparency. Big mistake and one we are learning from.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 09/26/2015, 01:55 PMThat video...holy shit. That can't possibly impress anyone, right?

Quote from: TrevorSwaimI have been one of the more critical voices over the last week and agree COMPLETELY. This is the kind of info that should have been out there a month or so ago. If your marketing guy can't communicate information that needs communicated and then keep his mouth shut when he needs to keep his mouth shut then you need a new PR guy. Sorry.

Anyway, THIS has helped immensely. I am back in, I will be supporting the IGG. PLEASE have John keep us up to date though no more Mike.

Quote from: ByronWellburnYea someone pointed out the shape of the mainboard. He was wanting to buy a clear one and was concerned it would look ugly. I agree.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 09/26/2015, 01:55 PMWTF could possibly be patentable on a project like this even if the guy did know what he's doing, which he doesn't.

Quote from: elmer on 09/26/2015, 02:11 AMRETRO VGS first quick demo
http://youtu.be/Pi10cm1pQXM

Now their tech guy is claiming that there is a prototype, but he's not told his "boss" because he's afraid that it would spoil his ability to patent all the new inventions ... that he's already started to patent ... without telling his boss ... and so presumably by himself ... meanwhile leaving his partners flapping in the wind for a week with a failing crowdfunding campaign.

What a f**king great guy to go into business with!

Quote from: esteban on 09/26/2015, 05:04 AMI am sorry, but everything on that table looks like a prop.

He elaborated on irrelevant things (the power supply? The power supply?), but did not provide much beyond these gems:
(1) we are working with some of the best attorneys in Silicon Valley
(2) we must protect our patents
(3) no cooling fans necessary!
(4) did you see how I carefully arranged all the props on my table? Doesn't it look "organic" like an actual workbench, where actual work is conducted? Yeah, I cut a few cables. I really did.

Quote from: PCEngineHell on 09/26/2015, 11:03 PMThe bigger issue with the video is the guy himself. There is a point where you can see someone believes in their product. They are passionate, serious, and convincing. This guy, I mean, this could have just as easily been some comedy skit on Tim and Eric Great Job. This guy looks and sounds like every fake tech asshole I have ever seen on any given parody tech video or similar strange infomercial parody shit.

http://youtu.be/XQLdhVpLBVE

Quote from: PCEngineHell on 09/26/2015, 11:03 PMThe bigger issue with the video is the guy himself. There is a point where you can see someone believes in their product. They are passionate, serious, and convincing. This guy, I mean, this could have just as easily been some comedy skit on Tim and Eric Great Job. This guy looks and sounds like every fake tech asshole I have ever seen on any given parody tech video or similar strange infomercial parody shit.

http://youtu.be/XQLdhVpLBVE

Quote from: Desh on 09/27/2015, 11:41 AMHahahaha!  After watching that last video I am seriously waiting for these guys to reveal that this was all a big joke all along and that they really fooled us.

Quote from: guest on 09/27/2015, 04:21 PMI haven't watched that video, but perhaps that guy really doesn't know anything about making hardware, there is no prototype or even a design and their plan since the beginning is to secure a couple million dollars and then hire someone to "just make one", based on their simple idea.

Kinda like the idiot who bought the rights to publish Doom for 3DO.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 09/26/2015, 01:55 PMThat video...holy shit. That can't possibly impress anyone, right? What is that scope there for? Why is the "prototype"* in one of their dumb Jag shells? WTF could possibly be patentable on a project like this even if the guy did know what he's doing, which he doesn't. 

These guys are legit crazy. I almost feel bad a of shitting on them because there are diagnosable issues in those dudes' heads for sure.


* not actually a prototype of anything, but rather other people's finished work.

Quote from: guest on 09/27/2015, 04:44 PMThe jag shell is there to obscure the Raspberry PI.

Quote from: JohnCarlsenYou have a good eye for the market. Keep in mind this is just the "minimum" configuration that we will use in a final product: The processor is indeed a Rockchip RK3188. I'm using it on a module supplied with 1 GiB mounted to an eval board. (Our finished product may have more RAM, but we don't need a lot of RAM to load into because the cartridge interface is pretty fast.) This allows me to quickly build up a circuit around it with the least amount of cost, effort, and risk. (Why re-invent the wheel, right?) It's a great part, but the best part of RETRO VGS really is what goes around it.

Quote from: Gentlegamer on 09/27/2015, 09:48 PM
LOL I knew what it was before pressing play. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1&v=HU0HPsw31-E%5B/quote)

Quote from: guest on 09/27/2015, 10:44 PM

Quote from: Gentlegamer on 09/27/2015, 09:48 PMhttp://youtu.be/Vtso_HLe80k

LOL I knew what it was before pressing play.

Quote from: esteban on 09/27/2015, 08:59 PMThe Ian? guy makes a good point: the RVGS is more concerned about collectors than players:

Part #1: http://youtu.be/CPn7r3tg8I8
Part #2: http://youtu.be/MZa4Pw75bdc

Quote from: Gentlegamer on 09/27/2015, 09:48 PMhttp://youtu.be/Vtso_HLe80k

Quote from: esteban on 09/27/2015, 08:59 PMThe Ian? guy makes a good point: the RVGS is more concerned about collectors than players:

Quote from: guest on 09/28/2015, 02:54 PM

Quote from: esteban on 09/27/2015, 08:59 PMThe Ian? guy makes a good point: the RVGS is more concerned about collectors than players:

Interestingly, the Retro VGS guy called it a "drunken rant" on his facebook page, simply because Ian was drinking a beer.

Quote from: guest on 09/28/2015, 02:54 PM

Quote from: esteban on 09/27/2015, 08:59 PMThe Ian? guy makes a good point: the RVGS is more concerned about collectors than players:

Interestingly, the Retro VGS guy called it a "drunken rant" on his facebook page, simply because Ian was drinking a beer.

Quote from: Bloufo on 09/28/2015, 03:06 PM

Quote from: guest on 09/28/2015, 02:54 PM

Quote from: esteban on 09/27/2015, 08:59 PMThe Ian? guy makes a good point: the RVGS is more concerned about collectors than players:

Interestingly, the Retro VGS guy called it a "drunken rant" on his facebook page, simply because Ian was drinking a beer.

MikeKennedyWinningTeam.webp

Quote from: JoshTurboTrollX-16 on 09/28/2015, 05:08 PMI must say, this Retro VGS story isn't much at all like the Ouya.  The Ouya actually delivered what they said they would and has actually entertained a few of the people that went to bat for them (Me included!).

Quote from: elmer on 09/28/2015, 05:38 PM            RETRO VGS                        OUYA
CPU         1.6GHz Quad Core ARM Cortex-A9   1.7GHz Quad Core ARM Cortex-A9
RAM         1GB DDR3-800                     1GB DDR3-800
PROTOTYPE   Manufacturer's SoC eval board    Manufacturer's SoC eval board
OS          We won't have one (NetBSD?)      Android
CONTROLLER  Yes                              Yes
CARTRIDGE   Yes                              No
COST        $300                             $100

Quote from: elmer on 09/28/2015, 05:38 PM

Quote from: JoshTurboTrollX-16 on 09/28/2015, 05:08 PM            RETRO VGS                        OUYA
CPU         1.6GHz Quad Core ARM Cortex-A9   1.7GHz Quad Core ARM Cortex-A9
RAM         1GB DDR3-800                     1GB DDR3-800
PROTOTYPE   Manufacturer's SoC eval board    Manufacturer's SoC eval board
OS          We won't have one (NetBSD?)      Android
CONTROLLER  Yes                              Yes
CARTRIDGE   Yes                              No
COST        $300                             $100

I love that they still think Cartridges are an actual benefit.

The Ouya is not that great, but still has dozens of games worth playing, even for free if you sideload.

And it is a great emulation box.

A single Retro VGS cartridge will cost $20 at least, and even the emulation part of it is crap.

Quote from: NightWolve on 09/28/2015, 05:53 PM

Quote from: elmer on 09/28/2015, 05:38 PM            RETRO VGS                        OUYA
CPU         1.6GHz Quad Core ARM Cortex-A9   1.7GHz Quad Core ARM Cortex-A9
RAM         1GB DDR3-800                     1GB DDR3-800
PROTOTYPE   Manufacturer's SoC eval board    Manufacturer's SoC eval board
OS          We won't have one (NetBSD?)      Android
CONTROLLER  Yes                              Yes
CARTRIDGE   Yes                              No
COST        $300                             $100

Hahahaha! The last line, it just... says it all, I guess. Somebody should put together a collection of the best roasting posts from elsewhere and here, I would be interested to see how much better of a job the public can roast this thing than us. :P

Quote from: Bloufo on 09/28/2015, 03:06 PMMikeKennedyWinningTeam.webp

Quote from: Gentlegamer on 09/28/2015, 08:35 PMThere's a 120+ page thread on Atari Age where you can find the genesis of most of these.

Quote from: SuperGrafx on 09/28/2015, 09:24 PMHe looks like an OLD drunken sot that you'd see at the local bar.

Quote from: elmer on 09/28/2015, 09:29 PMI've never seen 3 people, who seem to have so little capability to actually run a business, go out there and ask total strangers for millions of dollars.

Quote from: elmer on 09/28/2015, 09:29 PMI've never seen 3 people who seem to have so little capability to actually run a business, go out there and ask total strangers for millions of dollars.

Quote from: DildoKKKobold on 09/29/2015, 01:06 AM

Quote from: elmer on 09/28/2015, 09:29 PMI've never seen 3 people who seem to have so little capability to actually run a business, go out there and ask total strangers for millions of dollars.

Mike Kennedy is an interesting piece of work. Game Gavel is a miserable failure. For example, there are SIX SNES games on the site right now, total. And all 6 are sports games. I've read somewhere (it might have been here) that RETRO magazine has delivered a total of 10 issues over two years, when it was supposed to be monthly.

The thing I'm curious about, is if he's super passionate about retro stuff, but just not that bright, or is he just trying to cash in on the retro fad, and not very good at it? Either he's a lovable loser, or an incompetent villain. I don't know which.

Quote from: guest on 09/29/2015, 01:06 AM

Quote from: elmer on 09/28/2015, 09:29 PMI've never seen 3 people who seem to have so little capability to actually run a business, go out there and ask total strangers for millions of dollars.

I've read somewhere (it might have been here) that RETRO magazine has delivered a total of 10 issues over two years, when it was supposed to be monthly.

QuoteHey Everyone! It's clear, in its current state the RETRO VGS Indiegogo campaign is dead in the water and thusly will be shut down early. Once the Indiegogo team explains to us how we can do this, the plug will be pulled and all of you who have contributed will receive a refund post haste. Or you can go in and request a refund from Indiegogo right now.

The good news is we aren't giving up and have made some adjustments to our hardware team, which includes the involvement of... other hardware gurus who were part of our venture in the very beginning. We will also be lowering the price while maintaining most of the cool features you all want.

We will be back in the near future with a prototype RETRO VGS system, front-and-center playing our games on our cartridges and with our USB controller. Sit tight, be patient and RETRO VGS will return.

Thanks again for your support, patience and understanding while we regroup and prepare for the relaunch of a new crowdfunding campaign.

Mike Kennedy

Quote from: Mathius on 09/29/2015, 01:00 PMMaybe they'll get their act together for the next run. Maybe Kevtris is back in the fold?

Quote from: NightWolve on 09/29/2015, 02:26 PM

Quote from: Mathius on 09/29/2015, 01:00 PMMaybe they'll get their act together for the next run. Maybe Kevtris is back in the fold?

Doubtful, on both points. With the bad blood that gets created with how Kevtris publicly joined in on the roasting, they wouldn't want him back on principle, and for Kevtris to have done what he did, he was probably already very sure the prospects for any kind of partnership was permanently over.

Quote from: esteban on 09/29/2015, 04:19 PMIt's not over. It's just beginning. Retro VGS.

Quote from: esteban on 09/29/2015, 04:19 PMIt's not over. It's just beginning. Retro VGS.

Quote from: Opethian on 09/29/2015, 04:36 PMRetro VGS
the future was then

Quote from: NightWolve on 09/29/2015, 02:26 PMDoubtful, on both points. With the bad blood that gets created with how Kevtris publicly joined in on the roasting, they wouldn't want him back on principle, and for Kevtris to have done what he did, he was probably already very sure the prospects for any kind of partnership was permanently over.

Quote from: guest on 09/29/2015, 08:11 PM

Quote from: NightWolve on 09/29/2015, 02:26 PMDoubtful, on both points. With the bad blood that gets created with how Kevtris publicly joined in on the roasting, they wouldn't want him back on principle, and for Kevtris to have done what he did, he was probably already very sure the prospects for any kind of partnership was permanently over.

Maybe they ate some crow, groveled to him,  and he forgave them for being fucktards. Its a possibility.

QuoteThat said, I think that they totally misjudged everything about this release, and if they think they'll get even half of the response they got in the re-do, then they are still smoking crack.

Quote from: guest on 09/29/2015, 02:42 PMAgreed. I would imagine that these guys have burned through any goodwill they may have had. What sucks is they've probably made it harder for anyone who wants to take on a similar project in the future as well. I'd absolutely consider backing a $100-$150 cart-based console if it had a few killer exclusive games and, you know, some hint of a working prototype. These guys, though? Not a chance. My bullshit detector went on overdrive the moment I saw them speak.

QuoteBumbling Bumblers

Quote from: SephirothTNH on 09/29/2015, 09:52 PMHAHA! someone backed this for $1 three hours ago.  From what I understand of IGG you can't cancel a campaign once it's made any money.  It would be hilarious if they got everyone to ask for a refund but that $1 pledge stayed until the very end.

Quote from: guest on 09/29/2015, 07:41 PMAwww man! The lulz were just getting good. I hope there's a final Nostalgia SHIT video

Quote from: NightWolve on 09/30/2015, 12:18 AMHa, the head of "Nostalgia Industries" came back for a finisher to conclude this debacle!  :lol:

Quote from: NightWolve on 09/29/2015, 09:04 PMBut here's the thing, why would game developers wanna give an exclusive to something like this ?? Exclusives are already something that should be happening less and less.

QuoteI take pride in knowing that we created a good design and offered it at a fair price through an honest campaign, and made many friends in the process.
 
Sincerely yours,
John Carlsen

Quote from: Bloufo on 09/30/2015, 11:58 AMSo the hardware guy Carlsen is out. Not too surprised by that.

End part of his Facebook message:

QuoteI take pride in knowing that we created a good design and offered it at a fair price through an honest campaign, and made many friends in the process.
 
Sincerely yours,
John Carlsen

Yeah? No, I'm kinda thinking you guys did the opposite.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 10/02/2015, 12:35 PMHe seems to be saying the same thing every other sane person has said all along.

Even he dismisses carts though. That I don't get. The most profitable system on the planet right now (that isn't running iOS) runs on carts. It's called the 3DS. Vita also uses carts. They aren't dead or a thing of the past, not yet anyway. They are $40 games that sell as many as ten million copies. They are flash based (that's really really hard to avoid now) and they "load" the same as if they were CD, but they are carts for sure. I don't see this being a problem for a project like this.

Quote from: GreatBlueSwirlof99 on 10/04/2015, 08:14 AMWasn't  this thing supposed to  Be kickstarted on Septembr 14?!? It's October 3 and I'm getting impatient to see it bomb! 😀

Quote from: guest on 10/04/2015, 09:24 AM

Quote from: GreatBlueSwirlof99 on 10/04/2015, 08:14 AMWasn't  this thing supposed to  Be kickstarted on Septembr 14?!? It's October 3 and I'm getting impatient to see it bomb! 😀

So impatient that you haven't read any of this this thread or anything else online for a very long time.

Quote from: elmer on 09/26/2015, 02:11 AMI'm still scratching my head trying to figure out how this could possibly have got even weirder
than before.

Quote from: JohnCarlsonThe true visionary behind this project is Mike Kennedy. He's also a marketing person with a big heart, and he wants to reciprocate the enthusiasm our followers show us by being totally open and sharing everything. I get it, and I admire him for that. But he talks, and he talks about everything I show or tell him. Again, he's a marketing person, and that's what marketing people do.

Knowing this about Mike (and about marketing people in general), causes me (as an engineer) to be very cautious in choosing what I share with him. The reason for this is very simple: our inventions are valuable, and premature public disclosure of our inventions would cause us to lose the ability to protect them with patents.
For most of this year I've been working crazy long startup hours on this project. I've drained my own savings to pay for both my living expenses and building prototype circuits. I have invested a lot of time and money, I have a lot to show for it.

The problem is: I can't patent what I share publicly. As a result, I've been protecting my inventions as if they were my own children.

RETRO VGS first quick demo
http://youtu.be/xzJb22Buvbk

Now their tech guy is claiming that there is a prototype, but he's not told his "boss" because he's afraid that it would spoil his ability to patent all the new inventions ... that he's already started to patent ... without telling his boss ... and so presumably by himself ... meanwhile leaving his partners flapping in the wind for a week with a failing crowdfunding campaign.

What a f**king great guy to go into business with!

Apart from which ... what the heck is patentable!!!! All that he's got to show is basically a Raspberry PI stuffed under a Jag-Wire shell, running X-Windows ... or maybe even less!!!!

I just don't know how to deal with this particular level of crazy sh*t!!!!  :shock:  ](*,)  :shock:

Quote from: guest on 10/04/2015, 02:40 PMNo idea why you guys don't already have him on ignore. He's not even so dumb that he's funny.

Quote from: NightWolve on 10/04/2015, 09:16 PM

Quote from: elmer on 09/26/2015, 02:11 AMI'm still scratching my head trying to figure out how this could possibly have got even weirder
than before.

Quote from: JohnCarlsonThe true visionary behind this project is Mike Kennedy. He's also a marketing person with a big heart, and he wants to reciprocate the enthusiasm our followers show us by being totally open and sharing everything. I get it, and I admire him for that. But he talks, and he talks about everything I show or tell him. Again, he's a marketing person, and that's what marketing people do.

Knowing this about Mike (and about marketing people in general), causes me (as an engineer) to be very cautious in choosing what I share with him. The reason for this is very simple: our inventions are valuable, and premature public disclosure of our inventions would cause us to lose the ability to protect them with patents.
For most of this year I've been working crazy long startup hours on this project. I've drained my own savings to pay for both my living expenses and building prototype circuits. I have invested a lot of time and money, I have a lot to show for it.

The problem is: I can't patent what I share publicly. As a result, I've been protecting my inventions as if they were my own children.

RETRO VGS first quick demo
http://youtu.be/xzJb22Buvbk

Now their tech guy is claiming that there is a prototype, but he's not told his "boss" because he's afraid that it would spoil his ability to patent all the new inventions ... that he's already started to patent ... without telling his boss ... and so presumably by himself ... meanwhile leaving his partners flapping in the wind for a week with a failing crowdfunding campaign.

What a f**king great guy to go into business with!

Apart from which ... what the heck is patentable!!!! All that he's got to show is basically a Raspberry PI stuffed under a Jag-Wire shell, running X-Windows ... or maybe even less!!!!

I just don't know how to deal with this particular level of crazy sh*t!!!!  :shock:  ](*,)  :shock:

FYI folks, but these Retro VGS guys attempted to deny us the experience to occasionally go back and enjoy their embarrassing "working prototype" demo video! That's right, they deleted it (those bastards!) which invalidated elmer's original link above and would've denied the future the full retro experience of this event, BUT, someone else saw this unjust attempt to deny the lulz our beloved Internet so craves and thwarted it! Having captured it when it was live, he was able to reupload it to his own account along with a brief intro to provide some context to the great debacle that is the now Retro VGS. The Internet applauds his efforts!

Oh, and before watching, if you're not up-to-speed about how "premature" ejaculation disclosure could lead to a loss of patent rights and why the Retro VGS team was a bit "shy" with revelations of tech specs earlier on, a quick web search should bring you up to speed on this matter...  :roll:

With that said, presenting, once again, the not-so-great John Carlsen:

John Carlsen's deleted "RETRO VGS first quick demo" (http://youtu.be/xzJb22Buvbk#)
Another interesting video on Retro VGS from the same reviewer that has followed it since its inception. He made some interesting points about Mike Kennedy's "Retro Land," as he coins it, a place that can only ever mostly exist in Mike's head and the past:

Mike Kennedy or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Retro VGS (http://youtu.be/_gz727LyMiI#)

Quote from: guest on 10/05/2015, 01:58 PMI love how the RVGS was hyped as being backed by big name industry types and that they got quotes from much bigger names saying how excited they were for it and that it was an entire console which would open up a whole new library of software, blah, blah, blah...

Quote from: ctophil on 09/07/2015, 03:55 PMI think the RETRO VGS is a great idea.  I've bought reproduction carts of classic games for the past 3 years, as well as homebrew games.  I love buying old NES, SNES, or Sega Genesis games that never got an English translation and then finding new life in a repro cart complete with box, manual, and poster fully in English.  I believe the RETRO VGS will be more than just a system for indie titles.  It could be a home for old classics receiving HD Remasters, a breath of fresh air for budding game developers to achieve their dream of developing for a classic system like the SNES, Genesis, or even the Neo Geo, and you can even develop new games that take advantage of the full capabilities of the RETRO VGS.

Just imagine Square Enix, Konami, and Capcom jumping on board to revive their classic Secret of Mana & Final Fantasy titles, Castlevania, or even Mega Man?  If they find the HD Remasters working out, maybe they will even develop original content.

Frankly, I'm tired of the "digital revolution," where everything is downloadable to your hard drive.  Sure, it's convenient.  But I WANT a physical instruction manual, collectible maps & posters, and decent artwork on my game box.  Mike Kennedy knows his RETRO business because he is developing a console that is striving to stay away from the digital world (no internet connection for updates and such).  20 years from now, I want the RETRO VGS to still function without needing some patch from the Internet, unlike the Xbox One where it tries to connect to the Internet for every little thing.  I can't even play Killer Instinct on Xbox One without it saying, "The Console needs to go online for a game update."  You can't even save the game without the update?!?

I haven't heard anything about the system's price yet until the Kickstarter next week.  I wouldn't judge its price just yet until the official announcement.  Please support the RETRO VGS if you can.  I think it will make a statement to the mainstream console manufacturers. 

Quote from: CrackTiger on 10/05/2015, 01:58 PMI love how the RVGS was hyped as being backed by big name industry types and that they got quotes from much bigger names saying how excited they were for it and that it was an entire console which would open up a whole new library of software, blah, blah, blah...

But it failed hilariously while a non-existent game based on a relatively obscure cartoon from the 90's is so successful getting funded. :)

Quote from: guest on 10/05/2015, 05:07 PM

Quote from: ctophil on 09/07/2015, 03:55 PMI think the RETRO VGS is a great idea.  I've bought reproduction carts of classic games for the past 3 years, as well as homebrew games.  I love buying old NES, SNES, or Sega Genesis games that never got an English translation and then finding new life in a repro cart complete with box, manual, and poster fully in English.  I believe the RETRO VGS will be more than just a system for indie titles.  It could be a home for old classics receiving HD Remasters, a breath of fresh air for budding game developers to achieve their dream of developing for a classic system like the SNES, Genesis, or even the Neo Geo, and you can even develop new games that take advantage of the full capabilities of the RETRO VGS.

Just imagine Square Enix, Konami, and Capcom jumping on board to revive their classic Secret of Mana & Final Fantasy titles, Castlevania, or even Mega Man?  If they find the HD Remasters working out, maybe they will even develop original content.

Frankly, I'm tired of the "digital revolution," where everything is downloadable to your hard drive.  Sure, it's convenient.  But I WANT a physical instruction manual, collectible maps & posters, and decent artwork on my game box.  Mike Kennedy knows his RETRO business because he is developing a console that is striving to stay away from the digital world (no internet connection for updates and such).  20 years from now, I want the RETRO VGS to still function without needing some patch from the Internet, unlike the Xbox One where it tries to connect to the Internet for every little thing.  I can't even play Killer Instinct on Xbox One without it saying, "The Console needs to go online for a game update."  You can't even save the game without the update?!?

I haven't heard anything about the system's price yet until the Kickstarter next week.  I wouldn't judge its price just yet until the official announcement.  Please support the RETRO VGS if you can.  I think it will make a statement to the mainstream console manufacturers. 

Quote from: guest on 10/05/2015, 05:09 PM

Quote from: CrackTiger on 10/05/2015, 01:58 PMI love how the RVGS was hyped as being backed by big name industry types and that they got quotes from much bigger names saying how excited they were for it and that it was an entire console which would open up a whole new library of software, blah, blah, blah...

But it failed hilariously while a non-existent game based on a relatively obscure cartoon from the 90's is so successful getting funded. :)

80s

Quote from: Psycho Punch on 10/05/2015, 05:07 PM

Quote from: ctophil on 09/07/2015, 03:55 PMI think the RETRO VGS is a great idea.  I've bought reproduction carts of classic games for the past 3 years, as well as homebrew games.  I love buying old NES, SNES, or Sega Genesis games that never got an English translation and then finding new life in a repro cart complete with box, manual, and poster fully in English.  I believe the RETRO VGS will be more than just a system for indie titles.  It could be a home for old classics receiving HD Remasters, a breath of fresh air for budding game developers to achieve their dream of developing for a classic system like the SNES, Genesis, or even the Neo Geo, and you can even develop new games that take advantage of the full capabilities of the RETRO VGS.

Just imagine Square Enix, Konami, and Capcom jumping on board to revive their classic Secret of Mana & Final Fantasy titles, Castlevania, or even Mega Man?  If they find the HD Remasters working out, maybe they will even develop original content.

Frankly, I'm tired of the "digital revolution," where everything is downloadable to your hard drive.  Sure, it's convenient.  But I WANT a physical instruction manual, collectible maps & posters, and decent artwork on my game box.  Mike Kennedy knows his RETRO business because he is developing a console that is striving to stay away from the digital world (no internet connection for updates and such).  20 years from now, I want the RETRO VGS to still function without needing some patch from the Internet, unlike the Xbox One where it tries to connect to the Internet for every little thing.  I can't even play Killer Instinct on Xbox One without it saying, "The Console needs to go online for a game update."  You can't even save the game without the update?!?

I haven't heard anything about the system's price yet until the Kickstarter next week.  I wouldn't judge its price just yet until the official announcement.  Please support the RETRO VGS if you can.  I think it will make a statement to the mainstream console manufacturers. 

Quote from: guest on 10/05/2015, 07:25 PMI think that physical releases of the new original games, as well as new translations for 8 and 16-bit gen consoles is a great idea.  I've bought carts and CDs of homebrew games for the past 15 years, as well as played homebrew roms.  I love playing old NES, SNES, or Sega Genesis games that never got localized and then finding new life in an English translation and it would be nice to have official carts and CDs complete with box, manual, and poster fully in English.  I believe that classic consoles are much more lucrative to develop for than poorly faked "retro" games.  Publishers could make a lot of money even just re-releasing old classics that are currently gouged out of reach of actual game fans. It would also be a breath of fresh air for budding game developers to achieve their dream of developing for a classic system like the SNES, Genesis, or even the Neo Geo, instead of the antithesis of classic gaming that is the RETRO VGS idea.

Just imagine Square Enix, Konami, and Capcom jumping on board to revive their classic Secret of Mana & Final Fantasy titles, Castlevania, or even Mega Man?  If they find that sequels to classic series working out, maybe they will even develop original content.

Frankly, I'm tired of the faux "retro" scene, where everything is inauthentic to both the hardware running it and the hardware inspiring it.  Sure, it's close enough for young casual game collectors.  But I want REAL 8 & 16-bit games. A physical instruction manual, collectible maps & posters, and decent artwork on my game box is a wasted if it's packaged around a soulless game out of time.  Mike Kennedy knows his RETRO magazine business is floundering, yet he is developing a console that is striving to stay as far away from real hardware and games as possible. (no game-playing enthusiast would waste their time on a fake platform for shovelware fake games).  20 years from now, I want the 8 & 16-bit generation consoles to still receive new original games, without needing to play them through emulation, unlike the RETRO VGS which strictly emulates everything.  I wouldn't be able play a game on a fake piece of shit like the RETRO VGS without saying, "I feel nothing for this Emulation Box nor its emulated games."  You can't even hook it up to a CRT and play games in 240p?!?

Please avoid the RETRO VGS and encourage others to do so.  I think it will make a statement to the mainstream and indie game publishers that we aren't interested in fake games or fake consoles.


Feel free to quote me so that I can't try to change it later.

QuoteI said I was not going to come back into this thread, but as you all can agree, AtariAge and this thread are a hard habit to break.  Anyway, I wanted to chime back in on a few things in light of our current situation.  Unlike the So Cal Mike from the past, I will try and be a bit more concise:

 

1)  As you have heard (and discussed) in our most recent team interview there was discord among the team.  Since bringing John on board this product started becoming incredibly expensive.  It was actually up to $450-$500 (selling price at one point).  Obviously, that was NEVER going to fly so Steve and I did what we could to try and work with John to understand why the cost and selling price became to excessive.  Once we decided to eliminate the need for RVGS to "handle" Neo Geo size cores/games (coming through the FPGA), the price then lowered a bit, but not nearly enough.  We then went back and forth amongst the team to include or not include an FPGA big enough to handle the existing 8-Bit cores thinking without it the price would come down even more, but at the expense of losing the magic of the FPGA.  But even after removing the FPGA or using a small one for other "housekeeping" applications (John's words) the price just never came down to a price point Steve and I were comfortable with (it bottomed out at the $299-$350 you saw on the IGG campaign).

 

2)  Regarding Kevtris (and PIKO too).  Honestly, since we had been waffling on whether or not to include the FPGA leading up to a crowdfunding campaign, I didn't want to waste any more of their time.  In the end, Kevin did understand that we would contract with him to license his existing 8-bit cores and also help finance his creation of 16-bit cores for our use and the community's use ONLY if we had a successfully funded campaign that included a capable FPGA.  We didn't toss him out in any way, shape or form and I apologize to Kevin for how I handled his comments, which took our team by surprise and were a bit out of the blue.  And, should RVGS have a successful ending, I hope we can work with him to license his cores in the future.  In the end, I do believe our products will be two completely different kinds of machines and can exist together if the two of us are able to make our machines a reality.

 

3)  Regarding PiperCub (Scott Schreiber).  Yes, he was a confidant, friend and podcast co-host with me for years when I came to him with my idea to create a new cartridge based console.  I valued his input and advice and he also knew Curt Vendel, someone who I initially wanted to design the hardware.  Scott hooked us up and Curt and I discussed this very early on and he indicated he didn't have the time (and was also battling for his life) so he had to bow out of the running as lead engineer.  I then moved on to two other very capable hardware guys who worked with Steve and I in the beginning, even to the point of having an operating prototype.  This was all before Steve had the idea of integrating an FPGA (and also before a few other additions like the various output methods and 9-Pin controller ports (all things we are striving to include should it not break the bank).

 

4)  Fast forward to the present.  Yes, we pulled the IGG campaign and agree it should have NEVER been turned on in the first place.  Prior to pulling the campaign John took it upon himself to light up his famous table prototype video (without any heads up to Steve or myself).  At first, Steve and I were taken by surprise, but his attempt at showing a prototype did garner some positive sentiment among the natives so I thought we dodged a bullet there.  In the end, I think it did more harm than good and wish it never got posted.  But John is a very good guy and very capable engineer.  But somehow this product grew into a three headed monster with him at the hardware helm.  And I am not saying this was all his fault.  John did his best to engineer the machine Steve and I had envisioned from the start.  It just got completely out of hand on many accounts and we all take the blame for that.

 

5)  Steve Woita.  Steve is awesome ( I hope you can all agree with that) and he and I are on great terms and want to see RVGS to a positive end, whether that means a successfully funded campaign with a cool product you all might want OR if it dies out gracefully after given a true chance to succeed.  Only time will tell where this story will end.

 

6)  Back to #3.  So we have begun folding back in part of the team we were working with between Curt Vendel and John Carlsen.  They have obviously been following this downward spiral and contacted us to help remind us (mainly me) about my original vision for this system and that the time and work spent with us early on was not wasted.  The good news is that we all still agree that having the FPGA in its fullest form is a good thing and are doing what we can to continue to include that bit of hardware in the design.  Our "new" hardware team is working hard to complete the prototype that was begun early on in this venture and I am trying to stay out of the hardware side of things at this point so they can do their job and engineer some cool tech that doesn't cost you all an arm and a leg.  That was never our intention with RVGS.  If and when you hear from us again it will be with a playable prototype in hand.

 

7) Apologies.  Hey, I think we can all agree this thread had both constructive criticism, which my team and I welcomed and also personal attacks which we didn't.  I didn't mean to group everyone into any negative comments I made with regards to AA or its members.  But there were a few comments that really rubbed me the wrong way and I let my emotions get the best of me.  For what it's worth, I am sorry and certainly didn't mean any ill will toward the majority of the people here or on any other forum (or on Facebook) for that matter.  Much of the criticism was valuable and I think we now know how to bring a viable product to market with a price point that most will agree with.  But again, it's a balancing act trying to please as many people as possible while also trying to keep the price affordable.

 

Now all I ask is that you give my team a fair shot to win back your trust with our second effort that will go long way to address the concerns from the final weeks leading up to the IGG campaign.  We will have a playable prototype and it will be on Kickstarter.  Will there be some changes to the game lineup?  Sure, we will be working on fleshing out the initial game launch list once we have all agreed on the hardware and the price point.

 

Carry on . . . . .

 

- Mike

 

EDIT:  Oh, one other thing.  I've discussed with our campaign rep at IGG about ending the campaign and they said they would look into it but for now it's still live.  If you happen to still have your money tied up there, please go in and demand a refund asap.  Here is a link discussing how and where to request this:  https://support.indi...t-my-money-back-

Quote from: Mike KennedyNow all I ask is that you give my team a fair shot to win back your trust with our second effort that will go long way to address the concerns from the final weeks leading up to the IGG campaign.  We will have a playable prototype and it will be on Kickstarter.  Will there be some changes to the game lineup?  Sure, we will be working on fleshing out the initial game launch list once we have all agreed on the hardware and the price point.

Quote from: Bloufo on 10/07/2015, 04:31 AMHe's putting it all on Carlsen. That's mostly what I'm seeing here.

Something like "I apologize but it really wasn't my fault".

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 10/07/2015, 10:17 PM

Quote from: Bloufo on 10/07/2015, 04:31 AMHe's putting it all on Carlsen. That's mostly what I'm seeing here.

Something like "I apologize but it really wasn't my fault".

Disgusting. After a flop this huge he still can't see reality...and selling out Carlsen is bullshit. The reason he couldn't deliver a workable spec is because there is no design directive. This dick STILL doesn't know WTF he wants. STILL!

Amazing.

Quote from: Bloufo on 10/08/2015, 02:30 AM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 10/07/2015, 10:17 PM

Quote from: Bloufo on 10/07/2015, 04:31 AMHe's putting it all on Carlsen. That's mostly what I'm seeing here.

Something like "I apologize but it really wasn't my fault".

Disgusting. After a flop this huge he still can't see reality...and selling out Carlsen is bullshit. The reason he couldn't deliver a workable spec is because there is no design directive. This dick STILL doesn't know WTF he wants. STILL!

Amazing.

I don't know him, and previous to this whole RVGS thing I didn't know of him. So maybe it's just me but I'm thinking this Kennedy guy would make for a great used car salesman.

But yeah I agree, he seems to have no problem in dishing out backhanded comments in that "apology", and throwing the Carlsen dude under the bus.
From what I've read, he did a similar thing to that Kevtris guy.

Is this a person to trust with your money? I'll take a flyer here and go with "No" :lol:

Quote from: FaceBookRVGS parts are in and a "breadboard" is coming together, which means we are getting closer to having a playable prototype.

Quote from: elmer on 10/15/2015, 02:51 PMThe gift that keeps on giving ...

Quote from: FaceBookRVGS parts are in and a "breadboard" is coming together, which means we are getting closer to having a playable prototype.

Hahahaha ... that was quick!  :shock:

The IGG campaign was only "killed" 16 days ago (and still has another 20 days to run).

I wonder what direction they're going in this time.  :roll:

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 10/15/2015, 07:22 PMDo people actually breadboard something as complicated as a game system? I genuinely don't know the answer to this.

Quote from: guest on 10/15/2015, 08:13 PMAt least 30 years ago they did. That's an Apple ][ proto.

Quote from: elmer on 10/15/2015, 09:54 PM

Quote from: Psycho Punch on 10/15/2015, 08:13 PMAt least 30 years ago they did. That's an Apple ][ proto.

Didn't John Carlsen do that ... I thought that I saw it on his resume!  :-k

No ... wait ... now I remember ... he was just trying to brag that he attended the same university as Woz.

Isn't that almost the same thing?  :roll:

Quote from: Psycho Punch on 10/15/2015, 08:13 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 10/15/2015, 07:22 PMDo people actually breadboard something as complicated as a game system? I genuinely don't know the answer to this.

(https://web.archive.org/web/20110716073748im_/http://www.cpmuseum.com/Exhibits/Apple%20Lane/7603/images/THM_017%20Apple-1%20Prototype%20Board%20RAM%20Close-up.jpg) (https://web.archive.org/web/20110716073748im_/http://www.cpmuseum.com/Exhibits/Apple%20Lane/7603/images/THM_018%20Apple-1%20Prototype%20Board%20CPU-PIO-ROM%20Close-up.jpg) (https://web.archive.org/web/20110716073748im_/http://www.cpmuseum.com/Exhibits/Apple%20Lane/7603/images/THM_011%20Apple-1%20Prototype%20Board%20Bottom.jpg) (https://web.archive.org/web/20110716073748im_/http://www.cpmuseum.com/Exhibits/Apple%20Lane/7603/images/THM_014%20Apple-1%20Prototype%20Board%20Bottom%20Angle%202.jpg)

At least 30 years ago they did. That's an Apple ][ Apple 1 proto.

wayback.cpmuseum.com/Exhibit.aspx?address=7603 (https://web.archive.org/web/20110716073748/http://www.cpmuseum.com/Exhibit.aspx?address=7603)

Quote from: guest on 10/15/2015, 10:13 PM

Quote from: elmer on 10/15/2015, 09:54 PM

Quote from: guest on 10/15/2015, 08:13 PMAt least 30 years ago they did. That's an Apple ][ proto.

Didn't John Carlsen do that ... I thought that I saw it on his resume!  :-k

No ... wait ... now I remember ... he was just trying to brag that he attended the same university as Woz.

Isn't that almost the same thing?  :roll:

Wait, seriously?

Quote from: JohnCarlsenJohn Carlsen, Co-Founder, VP Operations and Platform Development– As a principal hardware engineer, John created a Sony PlayStation for emerging foreign markets and co-founded Iguana Entertainment, where he created powerful low-cost software-development interfaces for SNES, Saturn, PlayStation, and Jaguar.

John contributed to the development of system software for PlayStation 3, the first computer with AMD 64-bit processors, most flash-based MP3 players (including iPod Shuffle), Altera programmable logic semiconductors, Media Vision's high-quality PC sound cards, and the first TV input device for personal computers. John has also worked for Atari, Atari's former president and co-founder Nolan Bushnell, and Activision, and has taught college courses in game development.

John has degrees in computer science and management from St. Edward's University in Austin, and five degrees from De Anza College in Cupertino—where Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak studied.

Quote from: elmer on 10/15/2015, 10:46 PMShameless resumé-padding at it's best!  :wink:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/retro-vgs#/story (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/retro-vgs#/story)

Quote from: JohnCarlsenAs a principal hardware engineer, John created a Sony PlayStation for emerging foreign markets and co-founded Iguana Entertainment, where he created powerful low-cost software-development interfaces for SNES, Saturn, PlayStation, and Jaguar.

John has also worked for Atari, Atari's former president and co-founder Nolan Bushnell, and Activision, and has taught college courses in game development.

John has degrees in computer science and management from St. Edward's University in Austin, and five degrees from De Anza College in Cupertino—where Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak studied.

Quote from: TheOldMan on 10/16/2015, 01:27 AMWhen I read that closely, I have to ask myself "How does software developement make you a hardware engineer?"

Quote from: John Carlsen SpecsAs a principal hardware engineer, John created a Sony PlayStation for emerging foreign markets

Quote from: guest on 10/15/2015, 11:58 PMActually, name dropping like that is a major red flag. I get that he wants to trumpet his school, but he's not doing himself any favors with that. As someone in academia, pulling something like that would just about be an automatic disqualifier from any job. I can only imagine in industry it's equally frowned upon.

Quote from: guest on 10/05/2015, 07:25 PMJust imagine Square Enix, Konami, and Capcom jumping on board to revive their classic Secret of Mana & Final Fantasy titles, Castlevania, or even Mega Man?  If they find that sequels to classic series working out, maybe they will even develop original content.

Quote from: NightWolve on 10/21/2015, 11:20 AMWell, there's not much to lampoon here. :)

Quote from: AtariAgeI don't know how I can be expected to treat this "Kevtris" guy seriously when all that he has to show is years of experience, working boards, working cores, a protoype, and a plan to keep costs manageable ... but yet, there's not a single picture of what laboratory POWER SUPPLY he's using!

Quote from: AtariAgeI want to believe Kevtris can make this happen. It looks like he knows his stuff.

But honestly, I don't think he knows what color shell to use, and that is very, very disturbing.

Quote from: AtariAgeYeah; it's like he's not even halfway there!

Quote from: NightWolve on 10/16/2015, 01:52 AM

Quote from: John Carlsen SpecsAs a principal hardware engineer, John created a Sony PlayStation for emerging foreign markets

Well, depends on what "created a Sony Playstation for emerging foreign markets" means... What are they trying to claim by that anyway?

Quote from: guest on 10/15/2015, 11:58 PMActually, name dropping like that is a major red flag. I get that he wants to trumpet his school, but he's not doing himself any favors with that. As someone in academia, pulling something like that would just about be an automatic disqualifier from any job. I can only imagine in industry it's equally frowned upon.

Quote from: NightWolve on 10/15/2015, 11:22 PM

Quote from: JohnCarlsenAs a principal hardware engineer, John created a Sony PlayStation for emerging foreign markets and co-founded Iguana Entertainment, where he created powerful low-cost software-development interfaces for SNES, Saturn, PlayStation, and Jaguar.

John has also worked for Atari, Atari's former president and co-founder Nolan Bushnell, and Activision, and has taught college courses in game development.

John has degrees in computer science and management from St. Edward's University in Austin, and five degrees from De Anza College in Cupertino—where Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak studied.

But anyway, that resume is silly in its "Hey, I happened to attend the same university as an Apple co-founder once did!" unnecessary padding... It was already a respectable resume objectively for a videogame software/hardware developer, but he ruins his credibility by adding something unnecessary like that.

Quote from: guest on 10/16/2015, 08:54 AMIt boils down to these guys are clowns, desperately trying to pass off a poorly planned idea, with a unsustainable business model, in the hopes of achieving riches and greatness so they can pull themselves out of their normal mundane lives.

Quote from: elmer on 10/21/2015, 09:42 PM

Quote from: NightWolve on 10/21/2015, 11:20 AMWell, there's not much to lampoon here. :)

Hahaha ... it's like you're not even trying!  :wink:

How about (from AtariAge) ...

Quote from: AtariAgeI don't know how I can be expected to treat this "Kevtris" guy seriously when all that he has to show is years of experience, working boards, working cores, a prototype, and a plan to keep costs manageable ... but yet, there's not a single picture of what laboratory POWER SUPPLY he's using!

Quote from: AtariAgeI want to believe Kevtris can make this happen. It looks like he knows his stuff. But honestly, I don't think he knows what color shell to use, and that is very, very disturbing.

Quote from: AtariAgeYeah; it's like he's not even halfway there!

Quote from: RetroVGSRETRO VGS
October 24 at 4:42pm ·

Just a note we are making great progress with a newly engineered RVGS. The good thing is that RVGS is going to be better and less expensive for going through all this. Please hang loose and we will make sure it will be worth the extra wait. In the meantime what's everyone playing this weekend?

Quote from: elmer on 10/26/2015, 03:54 PMIt's good to know that it will be both "better" and "less expensive" ... and that they really want to be chatty and friendly as they gently reach around to lift your wallet out of your pocket.  :)

Quote from: Sarumaru on 10/26/2015, 04:31 PMPreordered! Can't wait to experience a true retro experience!! Experiencing! !!

Quote from: guest on 10/26/2015, 06:55 PMRetro VGS, relive the days where magazines would give false blurbs about PCE games coming to the US, today.

Quote from: guest on 10/26/2015, 06:55 PMRetro VGS, relive the days where magazines would give false blurbs about PCE games coming to the US, today.

Quote from: elmer on 10/26/2015, 03:54 PMYes, I know that I should just let this all go ... but, tough!  :wink:

From Facebook ...

Quote from: RetroVGSRETRO VGS
October 24 at 4:42pm ·

Just a note we are making great progress with a newly engineered RVGS. The good thing is that RVGS is going to be better and less expensive for going through all this. Please hang loose and we will make sure it will be worth the extra wait. In the meantime what's everyone playing this weekend?

It's good to know that it will be both "better" and "less expensive" ... and that they really want to be chatty and friendly as they gently reach around to lift your wallet out of your pocket.  :)

Quote from: guest on 10/27/2015, 09:17 AMThe mere fact that it is already less expensive speaks volumes to how incompetent the team actually is. If they could make it better and less expensive in less than a month, why the hell did they not wait another month!

Quote from: RetroVGSWe are now working with a new lead hardware engineer and have been successful reengineering a good chunk of cost out of our initial design by simplifying our PCB architecture.  We will be back by the end of the year with a playable prototype, a lower purchase price and a significantly lower minimum campaign goal.  We appreciate your support and hope we can count on it again when we bring RETRO VGS to Kickstarter this winter.

Thanks again,

- Mike & Steve

Quote from: Lost Monkey on 10/27/2015, 07:16 AMSo Mike hasn't learned the biggest lesson in all of this - that he needs to keep his mouth shut....

Can he not see how ridiculous it is that the first (failed) IGG campaign isn't even over, yet he is spouting that they have gone back to the drawing board and already have "better" and "less expensive"?

Quote from: RetroVGSWe are waiting to have the hardware nailed down before approaching or reappoaching dev's at this time so not to waste anyone's time. It is my hope they will get back on board once they see a playable prototype.

Quote from: guest on 10/27/2015, 09:17 AMThe mere fact that it is already less expensive speaks volumes to how incompetent the team actually is. If they could make it better and less expensive in less than a month, why the hell did they not wait another month!

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 10/28/2015, 12:47 AM7 days left on the Indiegogo. I think we can do it. C'mon guys only 1.88 million dollars left to go!

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 10/28/2015, 12:47 AM7 days left on the Indiegogo. I think we can do it. C'mon guys only 1.88 million dollars left to go!

Quote from: NightWolve on 11/03/2015, 10:35 AMHeh, you're gonna squeeze every last possible lulz out of these guys, aren't ya John ?? ;)

Quote from: Gentlegamer on 12/17/2015, 12:03 PMA new development

http://www.retrovgs.com/f.a.q..html (http://www.retrovgs.com/f.a.q..html)

(https://web.archive.org/web/20180221045712im_/http://nebula.wsimg.com/62033aff7f0f4c31610fa1eb7152f28a?AccessKeyId=E647432F0367AB6020A0&disposition=0&alloworigin=1)

QuoteTrabuco Canyon, CA (PR) – December 17, 2015 Video-game industry pioneer COLECO re-enters the market, partnering with Retro Video Game Systems, Inc., to introduce a new, modern-day video-game system called the COLECO Chameleon.

COLECO Chameleon is a versatile new video-game system that serves as a modern day take on the classic game console and will accurately play classic games from the past.  The COLECO Chameleon also has the ability play brand-new games in the 8-, 16- and 32-bit styles, a growing and popular genre in today's game scape.

Chris Cardillo, a partner in COLECO said, "Mark [Thomann] and I are excited to work hand-in-hand with Retro Video Game Systems, Inc. in the launch of the COLECO Chameleon.  It's ironic that a new 'retro' video-game system would actually revolutionize and revitalize the COLECO brand."

And, for the first time in nearly 20 years, the COLECO Chameleon will once again play brand new games on long-lasting, durable cartridges that can be played, traded, and collected for a lifetime.  And all game cartridges will include high quality, plastic clamshell cases with illustrated instruction manuals and game developer liner notes.

Retro Video Game Systems, Inc. President Mike Kennedy adds, "The COLECO Chameleon is a love-letter to all the classic cartridge based gaming systems that came before it and we love the fact it will succeed COLECO's successful Telstar and Colecovision product lines.  It will take gamers and their families back to a simpler time where games were all about great gameplay and fun factor."

The COLECO Chameleon will launch in early 2016 and will also be demonstrated at Toy Fair New York 2016, February 13-16.

Quotedurable cartridges that can be played, traded, and collected for a lifetime.

QuoteHigh-quality boxes, instruction manuals, and other supplemental materials that make each title a collector's item worthy of a space on your shelf.

QuoteCOLECO Chameleon is a versatile new video-game system that serves as a modern day take on the classic game console and will accurately play classic games from the past.

Quote from: guest on 12/17/2015, 12:43 PMIf they pick a certain set of specs and forget about trying to emulate existing hardware, this makes more sense.

I still don't see the point, though, not when you could accomplish the same goals on a PSTV, PC, etc.

QuoteMakes less sense than the Coleco Flashback they've already released! (Which despite still having my actual Coleco, I considered,

Quote from: TheOldMan on 12/17/2015, 08:52 PMDon't bother with the coleco flashback, unless you get it really cheap (ie, < $20).
It feels like an emulator, the controllers are the wrong size (and you can't use real coleco controllers), and there are only 2-3 decent games on it.

Yeah, I'm a geek. I have the flashbacks sitting by their respective machines. Haven't played any of them in months. (Though comix zone on the sega one was good.)

Quote from: johnnykonami on 12/17/2015, 08:29 PMOh, man it's back...  this time taking a big sweaty dump on my very first game console that I ever owned!  I don't know how much clout the Coleco name even has anymore.  But yeah, as others have already pointed out, it's a Jaguar console shell, with a Nintendo Wii Pro controller, and now with Coleco stamped on the front...  Makes less sense than the Coleco Flashback they've already released! (Which despite still having my actual Coleco, I considered, but my sister got me an Atari Flashback 4 a couple years ago and it was easy to see the problems with these despite coming with extras like cool numpad overlays.)

Guess we'll see where they are going with this, probably having the name brand also means they have some financial backing from the Coleco license holders.

QuoteI've owned a Coleco but I've never even played Intellivision, and I always wanted to... know anything about that one?

Quote from: TheOldMan on 12/17/2015, 11:27 PM

QuoteI've owned a Coleco but I've never even played Intellivision, and I always wanted to... know anything about that one?

Got the intellivison one for my nephew. I never had an intellivision, but his comment was it was "meh". Not as laggy as the coleco one, and actually had a lot of the 'real' intellivision games. Iirc, he was a bit disappointed the talking games he liked weren't on there. Not sure if it was just favorite games missing, or if the speech module didn't work.

Fwiw: I think the intellivision one was $30 after xmas, so wait and look for it then :)

Quote from: TheOldMan on 12/17/2015, 11:27 PMGot the intellivison one for my nephew. I never had an intellivision, but his comment was it was "meh". Not as laggy as the coleco one, and actually had a lot of the 'real' intellivision games. Iirc, he was a bit disappointed the talking games he liked weren't on there. Not sure if it was just favorite games missing, or if the speech module didn't work.

Fwiw: I think the intellivision one was $30 after xmas, so wait and look for it then :)

Quote from: Mathius on 12/17/2015, 11:46 PMFrom what I remember reading the Int Flashback had the voice module games. I was kind of interested in getting the Coleco Flashback but not anymore. I'd still like to find a real one.

Quote from: elmer on 12/17/2015, 01:59 PMIt's an early Christmas present for all of us mean trolls!   :wink:

So the "creators" of the Retro VGS team up with the current rights-holders of the old Coleco brand to bring us a "new" system with all the careful hardware design of the famous Coleco Adam!  :lol:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleco_Adam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleco_Adam)

(Read the "problems" section if you're not familiar with the machine.)

Quote from: johnnykonami on 12/17/2015, 09:01 PM

Quote from: TheOldMan on 12/17/2015, 08:52 PMDon't bother with the coleco flashback, unless you get it really cheap (ie, < $20).
It feels like an emulator, the controllers are the wrong size (and you can't use real coleco controllers), and there are only 2-3 decent games on it.

Yeah, I'm a geek. I have the flashbacks sitting by their respective machines. Haven't played any of them in months. (Though comix zone on the sega one was good.)

Yeah, in general I know they are just kind of a letdown.  I've owned a Coleco but I've never even played Intellivision, and I always wanted to... know anything about that one?  Same deal?  Both of these systems sucks to emulate due to many games reliance on the number pad, especially in a tv/gamepad situation.  I guess if you were sitting in front of your PC with a keyboard you have either the number keys or the numpad to choose from.

Oh, and the Colecovision controllers have always been kinda bad, I remember even as a kid how stiff they were.  Makes me wonder when I get it back out again if I can open up my controllers and do some mod to improve them, y'know, lube them puppies up.  Or, I could just plug in a genny controller after I start up a game!

Quote from: johnnykonami on 12/17/2015, 09:01 PMI've owned a Coleco but I've never even played Intellivision, and I always wanted to... know anything about that one?  Same deal? 

Quote from: TheOldMan on 12/17/2015, 11:27 PM... actually had a lot of the 'real' intellivision games. Iirc, he was a bit disappointed the talking games he liked weren't on there. Not sure if it was just favorite games missing, or if the speech module didn't work.

Quote from: ParanoiaDragon on 12/18/2015, 03:24 AMI know there have been mods in the past for Atari Flashbacks so you can play ye old carts in em'.

Quote from: ParanoiaDragon on 12/18/2015, 03:24 AMWhat'd be great is if all the Flashbacks had cart ports.  I think only the Genesis ones have ports IIRC.  I know there have been mods in the past for Atari Flashbacks so you can play ye old carts in em'.

Quote from: wilykat on 12/18/2015, 06:53 PM

Quote from: ParanoiaDragon on 12/18/2015, 03:24 AMWhat'd be great is if all the Flashbacks had cart ports.  I think only the Genesis ones have ports IIRC.  I know there have been mods in the past for Atari Flashbacks so you can play ye old carts in em'.

Genesis hand held system has SD card slot for loading games.  Not all games worked, no SMS support and obviously no 32x support without cart connector and video pass through support.  All of the Genesis FB has shit sound.  At Games can't get the official Yamaha sound chip detail and the POS clone they are using don't even come close.  It's too bad they never thought of including a solder spot for us who has access to real Yamaha sound chip to install it and disable built in sound chip.  The whole thing is under epoxy blob so it's not directly hackable either.

Quote from: Lost Monkey on 12/18/2015, 08:47 AMI have controllers with a bypass adapter built in.  Basically, you plug this arcade style joystick into the CV's controller port and the wire has a Y in it with a place to plug in your CV controller.  They were mass manufactured but I never saw them at retail BITD. I got mine at a surplus store in the 90's. It was called the Prostick III.  (The buttons are on the front BTW)

Quote from: majors on 12/18/2015, 09:02 AMI'm not expert on INTV, but in the past two years I've had a interest and got 4 systems(I A/V modded 2 so far), handful of carts, the DS release of Intellivision Lives and a the Flashback. The best thing I feel is good on the FB is the pads. Regardless if you love or hate the disc controller, it is truth. Finding a perfect working 1978 INTV pad that works is laughable...with the FB, you get NEW controllers. I have no issue with the EMU that is running the ROMs, and they are the real ROMs from what I understand (unlike the NoaC, plug-in TV pads that came out earlier). If you have any interest in learning more about Intellivision, the Flashback is a cheap, easy start.

PS: I can't play any of more complicated games yet. I stick with Thunder Castle, Night Stalker, Astro Smash, Shark Shark and my current fav: Chip Shot Golf! (shout outs to Jodi for the hook up!). Eventually I'll read the manuals to figure them out.

Quote"It's ironic that a new 'retro' video-game system would actually revolutionize and revitalize the Coleco brand," said Coleco partner Chris Cardillo, in a press release. The project's a collaboration between Coleco and a company called Retro Video Game Systems.

Quote from: guest on 12/20/2015, 09:01 PMColleco is back and "making" a new console!

http://toyland.gizmodo.com/old-school-video-game-maker-coleco-is-making-a-new-cart-1748546892 (http://toyland.gizmodo.com/old-school-video-game-maker-coleco-is-making-a-new-cart-1748546892)

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 12/21/2015, 01:05 AMHeh. That somehow makes sense. IIRC he has a mega Jersey accent, sure to win over investors. People listen to guys that are basically character actors.

Quote from: Gentlegamer on 12/17/2015, 12:03 PMA new development

http://www.retrovgs.com/f.a.q..html (http://www.retrovgs.com/f.a.q..html)

http://nebula.wsimg.com/62033aff7f0f4c31610fa1eb7152f28a?AccessKeyId=E647432F0367AB6020A0&disposition=0&alloworigin=1 (http://nebula.wsimg.com/62033aff7f0f4c31610fa1eb7152f28a?AccessKeyId=E647432F0367AB6020A0&disposition=0&alloworigin=1)

Quote from: NightWolve on 12/31/2015, 10:47 PM

Quote from: Gentlegamer on 12/17/2015, 12:03 PMA new development

http://www.retrovgs.com/f.a.q..html (http://www.retrovgs.com/f.a.q..html)

http://nebula.wsimg.com/62033aff7f0f4c31610fa1eb7152f28a?AccessKeyId=E647432F0367AB6020A0&disposition=0&alloworigin=1 (http://nebula.wsimg.com/62033aff7f0f4c31610fa1eb7152f28a?AccessKeyId=E647432F0367AB6020A0&disposition=0&alloworigin=1)

I wondered what I was gonna still find here after being away from the forums and having forgotten all about this thread... Would it just be elmer still milking this for every last possible lulz from where it left off ? Nope, instead a new chapter has opened, the "Coleco Cameleon..."

I honestly thought they were poking fun of themselves, but no, this looks like it's a serious Hail Mary retro reboot... So apparently attaching yourself to the name Coleco, another failed console-maker, while still using the shell of another failed console-maker, is the "winning formula" they were missing before ??? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

I love these guys, I can't think of another thread in my viewing history that has brought so much lulz!!

Quote from: NightWolve on 12/31/2015, 10:47 PMSo apparently attaching yourself to the name Coleco, another failed console-maker, while still using the shell of another failed console-maker, is the "winning formula" they were missing before ???

Quote from: ctophil on 09/07/2015, 03:55 PMI think the RETRO VGS is a great idea.  I've bought reproduction carts of classic games for the past 3 years, as well as homebrew games.  I love buying old NES, SNES, or Sega Genesis games that never got an English translation and then finding new life in a repro cart complete with box, manual, and poster fully in English.  I believe the RETRO VGS will be more than just a system for indie titles.  It could be a home for old classics receiving HD Remasters, a breath of fresh air for budding game developers to achieve their dream of developing for a classic system like the SNES, Genesis, or even the Neo Geo, and you can even develop new games that take advantage of the full capabilities of the RETRO VGS.

Just imagine Square Enix, Konami, and Capcom jumping on board to revive their classic Secret of Mana & Final Fantasy titles, Castlevania, or even Mega Man?  If they find the HD Remasters working out, maybe they will even develop original content.

Frankly, I'm tired of the "digital revolution," where everything is downloadable to your hard drive.  Sure, it's convenient.  But I WANT a physical instruction manual, collectible maps & posters, and decent artwork on my game box.  Mike Kennedy knows his RETRO business because he is developing a console that is striving to stay away from the digital world (no internet connection for updates and such).  20 years from now, I want the RETRO VGS to still function without needing some patch from the Internet, unlike the Xbox One where it tries to connect to the Internet for every little thing.  I can't even play Killer Instinct on Xbox One without it saying, "The Console needs to go online for a game update."  You can't even save the game without the update?!?

I haven't heard anything about the system's price yet until the Kickstarter next week.  I wouldn't judge its price just yet until the official announcement.  Please support the RETRO VGS if you can.  I think it will make a statement to the mainstream console manufacturers. 

Quote from: NightWolve on 02/02/2016, 04:15 AM(https://s5.postimg.cc/sxqi77ndz/The_Winning_Team_Retro_VGS.jpg)

Quote from: esteban on 02/02/2016, 08:29 PMUNRELEASED TG-16 games will be released with Coleco Chameleon:
Marble Madness
Off the Wall

Quote from: Mathius on 02/02/2016, 09:24 PM

Quote from: esteban on 02/02/2016, 08:29 PMUNRELEASED TG-16 games will be released with Coleco Chameleon:
Marble Madness
Off the Wall

Seriously?

Quote from: esteban on 02/02/2016, 11:03 PM

Quote from: Mathius on 02/02/2016, 09:24 PM

Quote from: esteban on 02/02/2016, 08:29 PMUNRELEASED TG-16 games will be released with Coleco Chameleon:
Marble Madness
Off the Wall

Seriously?

Hell no.

But a bunch of unreleased Sega Genesis/MD games will be included. Stuff that Piko Interactive put out on carts...

Quote from: elmer on 02/02/2016, 08:19 PM

Quote from: NightWolve on 02/02/2016, 04:15 AM(https://s5.postimg.cc/sxqi77ndz/The_Winning_Team_Retro_VGS.jpg)

But what are they thinking? Perhaps something like this ...

"God, I hope that nobody sees this. I'm only here because these idiots paid me to take the photos!"

"My butt-plug tickles!"

"God, I miss being a High School jock. Everyone used to love me. Please let me go back in time and do it again!"

"Who are these guys again? Crap, who cares anyway ... Good weed, man!"

Quote from: Mathius on 02/02/2016, 11:57 PMDidn't think so. That Marble Madness guy is pretty much holding that proto for ransom.

Quote from: guest on 02/02/2016, 04:24 PMThe guy on the right is trying to channel his inner Sam Axe Jason Bly.

Quote from: elmer on 02/13/2016, 12:57 PMIt all gets weirder!  :shock:

So the new Coleco Chameleon "prototype" is now on-display the the New York Toy Fair, and it's looking suspiciously like what they're showing is a SNES-clone motherboard, and that the "prototype" cartridge is actually an SD2SNES or a Super Everdrive.

The new KickStarter campaign starts in 2 weeks.

I didn't think that there was any way that this whole saga could possibly get any stranger!  :wink:

Quote from: elmer on 02/13/2016, 12:57 PMIt all gets weirder!  :shock:

So the new Coleco Chameleon "prototype" is now on-display the the New York Toy Fair, and it's looking suspiciously like what they're showing is a SNES-clone motherboard, and that the "prototype" cartridge is actually an SD2SNES or a Super Everdrive.

The new KickStarter campaign starts in 2 weeks.

I didn't think that there was any way that this whole saga could possibly get any stranger!  :wink:

Quote from: guest on 02/13/2016, 02:44 PMLost Monkey the target audience is clearly NintendoAge style collectards which buy anything and everything "limited edition". They are trying to cash in on the collectard craze and it shows.

LOL if you think they have the same target audience as the folks behind Atari Flashback or something like that. It's a console not to be played, with games not to be opened.

Quote from: Lost Monkey on 02/13/2016, 02:17 PMIt was just embarrassing enough already  - this is just leaving me almost speechless...

If it isn't obvious to the folks here and at Atari Age and elsewhere who have been following this, I will state it here: "You are not the target audience for this product."

This is a product for the grocery store end cap for someone who currently owns no classic gear, to wax nostalgic for a few minutes, and make an impulse purchase.  That is all...