Sega's best console

[Kitsunexus]

I'll never understand the Mega Drive fanaticism. Nearly everything on it is fucking brown, and software support was very crap compared to PCE and SFC. The CD added something for sure, but CD added much much more to the PCE.

I swear I've seen this before, I'm experiencing MAJOR déja vu.

But Genesis (Mega Drive) 2 was VERY cool looking, and most of the games are awesome.

[Hobo Xiphas]

But Genesis (Mega Drive) 2 was VERY cool looking, and most of the games are awesome.

You are the first person I've met that prefers the second model Genesis over the superior original Genesis.

Stop violating my aesthetic sense, okay.

[Kitsunexus]

Hey, I like the look but I miss the volume slider and headphone jack, so it's all good.

[Seldane]

I'm the second person then.

And Mega Drive rules. Brown rules, too. That's why Mega Drive rules. Because of the brown. I just couldn't be telling the truth more than that.

In addition, the Mega Drive 1 is ugly and so is the Mega Drive 2. However, they feature brown games, so it's all good.

[Keranu]

Mega Drive sucks, Genesis rules. 

[Kitsunexus]

So you're implying that only U.S. games are good?

[Joe Redifer]

I think he prefers the US box art.

[Kitsunexus]

I think he prefers the US box art.

THAT'S POSSIBLE!? 

[Joe Redifer]

It's Keranu.  He comes from the mirror universe where he likes everything most people hate and hates everything that most people love.

[Keranu]

It's Keranu.  He comes from the mirror universe where he likes everything most people hate and hates everything that most people love.

No that's Seldane. And yes, USA box art kicks ass!

[TR0N]

It's Keranu.  He comes from the mirror universe where he likes everything most people hate and hates everything that most people love.

No that's Seldane. And yes, USA box art kicks ass!

I'm starting to think your are from the bizarro universe 

[Keranu]

No, I just have some respect for my country. 

[MrFulci]

Genesis was a nice system. Though, it lacked in some areas with it's competition (TG-16, SNES) it had some advantages in other areas and was able to hodl it's own pretty well. I've had no issues with the system, other than at times the speech is a bit garbled.

Each of the Genesis systems ahd their pros and cons. As a stand alone unit, the Genesis 1 is nice, Headphone jack is always welcome. For combining with a Sega CD, if it's a bottom loader, yeah, Genesis 1. If it is the top loader, gotta have the genesis 2. Still, if I'm hooking up a Sega CD, I'd rather have an X'Eye so I have one less AC Adapter plugged in.

The Genesis 1 model Doesn't support stereo through it's A/V jack, though it supports it from the headphone out (I think...) Genesis 2 the stereo is through the A/V cable.

[MrFulci]

Oh yeah, the Genesis commercials were very nice... SEGA!

[Hobo Xiphas]

Jesus Christ, you Japanophiles have serious aesthetic issues.

How can you not enjoy the Genesis box art?  The classic striped motif of Genesis game boxes is very nice indeed.

I'm still reeling over the shock that people can prefer the model 2 over the model 1 Genesis.  The model 2 Genesis just looks so generic. 

[runinruder]

The Genesis was a great system, definitely much better than the SNES.

[Seldane]

I prefer the European MD boxes. The later, blue ones. The red american ones aren't bad either though. I want them all, even though most of them are crap games. I think the Japanese boxes generally look pretty boring (the box layout, not the actual picture, which can often be nice). That red/green MD logo is nasty!

/md0030vvo3.jpg
One of the not-crap games in a blue box

[SuperDeadite]

The Saturn wins my vote.  Back at the parents' house in the States, I have three of them:  US Model 2,
Japan Model 2 (White), and a HiSaturn (Model 1).  Whats really odd is that both my Japanese Saturns are modded,
and in both cases the sellers didn't know about them (White Saturn was from GameChoiceClub, HiSaturn was from ebay). 
When they came in the mail, I opened them up for a routine check and dust cleaning, and said "Strange this is modded."
When I bought the HiSaturn and it too came modded I was quite shocked.

Anyone have similar experiences?

P.S.   The HiSaturn has the coolest bootup animation ever 

[Seldane]

I've had a similiar experience... I once bought an untested PSone. Turns out it had a modchip installed. Additionally, I got two matching controllers and a memory card with it, none of which the seller said he'd include. It was a nice deal. I think I paid $10 for it.

[Joe Redifer]

I've had no issues with the [Genesis], other than at times the speech is a bit garbled.

Yes, but the SNES and TG-16 also had similar issues.  The TG-16 had lots of bad/garbled speech.  The SNES had a habit of applying too much reverb into any sound the console made in order to make it sound like the console was built in the future.  When these things happened, none was audibly pleasing.

As far as box art is concerned, I am a big fan of the minimalist Sega Master System box designs.  There was just something really cool about them.  When the Genesis first came out they used the same boxes except black and more space dedicated to artwork and custom fonts.  The instruction manual was also taller.  I thought that was pretty cool.  They eventually went to the RED Genesis boxes with the Cooperplate Gothic Bold Genesis logo font.  I didn't like those as much.  I really liked it even less when the boxes became made out of paper instead of plastic.  People who like paper boxes are complete and total losers who deserve to die by drinking sewer water.

The HiSaturn has the coolest bootup animation ever

Please post a video of it.

[Kitsunexus]

Remember that SEGA VR thing that got canceled due to safety concerns? THAT would have been the best SEGA console. (Think Model 1 with head-tracking in a lightweight helmet...)

[SuperDeadite]

The HiSaturn has the coolest bootup animation ever

Please post a video of it.

I'd be happy too, but my system is in America, and I'm in Japan.  There don't seem to be any online either from my quick google search.  Basically unlike a normal Saturn and V-Saturn's generic gray background boot sequence, the HiSaturn has a gold HiSaturn logo made of polygons, it sort of spins, pans, and zooms for about 2 seconds then fades into a blue background.  Really hard to describe... 

[Joe Redifer]

Is it something like this:

HiSaturn

Regular Saturn (Japanese)

[MrFulci]

Joe, I can't think of too many examples of speech on the TG-16 chips, allt hat really comes to mind is Bravoman, haha. Genesis, at times the speech was alright, the other half of the time it was scratchy and garbled so much that I wondered why they had left it in the game. Then again, speech was "new" at the time, so even if it was a bit scratchy, I can see why they would have left it in there.

Commercials.. A few favs:

- http://gameads.gamepressure.com/tv_game_commercial.asp?ID=876
- http://gameads.gamepressure.com/tv_game_commercial.asp?ID=867
- http://gameads.gamepressure.com/tv_game_commercial.asp?ID=873

Some TG and PC Engine ads there also, http://gameads.gamepressure.com/

[runinruder]

Joe, I can't think of too many examples of speech on the TG-16 chips, allt hat really comes to mind is Bravoman,

Andre Panza, Davis Cup, Blazing Lazers, World Class Baseball, Parodius, the TV Sports games, Vigilante, and quite a few more.

[GUTS]

I also really like Master System and early Genesis game boxes.  The TTI released Duo games had cool art on the cases too, I liked how they used the Japanese art back when everybody else was still using awful western art.

[Joe Redifer]

Ha ha I remember the first boss (I think) in Vigilante saying what sounded like "Heya fucker!" again and again.  Space Harrier on the TG-16 is also pretty bad.  I agree that there are a lot of bad voices on the Genesis, with the Street Fighter games being the prime offenders.  It's like they were routing the voices through the FM channels.  It's too bad, too... because the Genesis is capable of some awesome voice quality:

_{► /crap/GenesisVoiceExamples.mp3}

[MrFulci]

ruin,

It's been quite a while since I've loaded any of those games. Bravoman is impossible for me to forget. When it comes to speech on the TG-16, Bravoman does plenty of it, hahha. Bravo, Bravo, Bravo, Bravo, etc, etc, etc.

Nice genesis MP3. It was hit and miss with the speech on that system. The genesis always stuck out with me with speech, because it seemed to offer speech in more games than the SNES or TG-16. Sometimes the system pulled it off pretty well, other times it had the, "huh?" factor.

[Digi.k]

Joe, I can't think of too many examples of speech on the TG-16 chips, allt hat really comes to mind is Bravoman, haha. Genesis, at times the speech was alright, the other half of the time it was scratchy and garbled so much that I wondered why they had left it in the game. Then again, speech was "new" at the time, so even if it was a bit scratchy, I can see why they would have left it in there.

ya you're right there.  but then the tg-16 wasn't really much supported in the west by 3rd parties so you'll never gonna get the top talented people doing their magic on this machine..

Only game I think has some sampled speech is on Ys games.

The best way you gonna hear stuff like loads of sampled speech is to look to the japanese market.. only game I can think of that uses a LOT more so than maybe any genesis game is download 2 which uses a lot of sampled speech during its cut scenes..

[Seldane]

The games you mentioned are CD games. It isn't much of a problem to include lots of high quality adpcm speech in those games due to the unlimited size of the disc. Cart based games fare a lot worse.

Star Ocean though.... awesome.

[Digi.k]

well the American cover for guardian heroes is one of THE WORST!!!!

[SuperDeadite]

Is it something like this:

HiSaturn

Regular Saturn (Japanese)

Yup thats it alright.  I just did a quick google search and usually YouTube vids pop right up, strange.  Oh well never been good at
these kinds of things.

Here's a nice pic of a Model 1 HiSaturn like I have.  Most people don't seem to know these exist.  Even the Saturn wiki only mentions
the Model 2 (Circle Button) HiSaturn and the HiSaturnNavi.
http://page2.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/b75703240

[Seldane]

What's the meaning of the Hi Saturn?

[NecroPhile]

What's the meaning of the Hi Saturn?

Saturn - Built by Sega
Hi-Saturn - Built by Hitachi
V-Saturn - Built by JVC / Victor

[Hobo Xiphas]

well the American cover for guardian heroes is one of THE WORST!!!!

They are both crap in my opinion, but whatever. 

[Keranu]

I agree with Joe complelely about the boxes he mentioned: Master System and early Genesis ones ruled, the later red Genesis cases (especially the paper) sucked.

EDIT: And oh yeah, I prefer the USA cover art for Guardian Heroes ;) .

[Seldane]

While still incredibly ugly, I think the European artwork looks best:

[termis]

^^ Agreed, though I don't think it's ugly (though it's nothing exceptional either).

Did European Saturn releases get those retarded U.S. plastic shells that always broke & cracked at the slightest nudge?

[OldRover]

Ugh. ALL those "Guardian Heroes" cover arts are crap.

[Seldane]

Did European Saturn releases get those retarded U.S. plastic shells that always broke & cracked at the slightest nudge?

Nah, we got something pretty similiar to DVD cases. Sturdy. Really cool-looking, too.

[Kitsunexus]

Ugh. ALL those "Guardian Heroes" cover arts are crap.

Agreed. Treasure really dropped the ball there, perhaps that's why back then it was a sleeper hit. You had to have great box art back then to entice people to play.

[CrackTiger]

Ha ha I remember the first boss (I think) in Vigilante saying what sounded like "Heya fucker!" again and again.  Space Harrier on the TG-16 is also pretty bad.  I agree that there are a lot of bad voices on the Genesis, with the Street Fighter games being the prime offenders.  It's like they were routing the voices through the FM channels.  It's too bad, too... because the Genesis is capable of some awesome voice quality.

Thats a great tech demo for the Genesis. 

None of the 16-bit consoles sux at digitized sounds. Even the NES has some great voice clips and the Intellivision rocks with the Intellivoice adaptor.


Some good examples of voice samples on HuCards are:

Champions Forever Boxing
TV Sports Football
TV Sports Basketball
Street Fighter II


Some CD examples:

Ys IV has great samples in all the boss fights. Unfortunately the only save file I have fot it is at the end, past the speaking bosses.

Lords is an obvious one, although there aren't any real words spoken.

I think that Gulliver Boy's battle voices were decent enough.

Snatcher's got the screaming guy in the shooting range.

I believe that all the Neo Geo ports have samples about as good as the originals.

Kabuki Itouryoden has good voice samples.

There have been times when I've meant to record some decent speech examples from Turbo/PCE games, but even now, like always, I'm just too lazy. Maybe, I'll get some recorded tonight.

[Kitsunexus]

Some CD examples:

Those don't count, merely being streaming Redbook audio. A normal CD player can sound that good if you use it to play the game disc.

If we were counting CD Audio games, Popful Mail for SEGA CD would CERTAINLY have been brought up by now.

[Keranu]

None of the 16-bit consoles sux at digitized sounds. Even the NES has some great voice clips and the Intellivision rocks with the Intellivoice adaptor.

Dude, Big Bird's Hide n Seek or whatever it's called for NES has some of the clearest digital voice sound effects I have ever heard on a cartridge! I don't think any hardware necessarily has a technical advantage over another in term's of digitized voices, it just depends how well the designer makes it.

[Turbo D]

I don't think any hardware necessarily has a technical advantage over another in term's of digitized voices, it just depends how well the designer makes it.

I agree, I think alot of the time the designers were either lazy or didn't care.

[Digi.k]

Some CD examples:

Those don't count, merely being streaming Redbook audio. A normal CD player can sound that good if you use it to play the game disc. If we were counting CD Audio games, Popful Mail for SEGA CD would CERTAINLY have been brought up by now.

I think he meant samples speech file stored on the game CD format

Its also pretty amazing how the European cover of Guardian Heroes .. they decided to remove the female heroes from the cover and replace them with male baddies... O_o

Anyway back to Download 2.. it runs on the old system card and has a hella lot of sampled speech used during the cut scenes but most of it is is sampled and using the good ol' pce sound card.. warning though that intro has a naked guy on it O_o

[Joe Redifer]

The speech samples from CD games use the ADPCM chip which is not part of the normal Turbo/PC Engine hardware.  That's like attributing all of the voice quality in Sega CD FMV games (which was pretty much perfect) to the Genesis.

[Kitsunexus]

The speech samples from CD games use the ADPCM chip which is not part of the normal Turbo/PC Engine hardware.  That's like attributing all of the voice quality in Sega CD FMV games (which was pretty much perfect) to the Genesis.

I know there's that one Turbo CD game with the infamous "You're too sting-y"...that used Redbook. Popful Mail used Redbook. I guess I'm just misinformed. ._.

[CrackTiger]

The speech samples from CD games use the ADPCM chip which is not part of the normal Turbo/PC Engine hardware.  That's like attributing all of the voice quality in Sega CD FMV games (which was pretty much perfect) to the Genesis.

I thought that the long duration/decent quality digitzed sound in fmv games was streamed like the video.

Are you saying that huge sound files gets dumped into the ADPCM chip during a load?

Because games with real actual (long) dialogue only ever run it over PSG music, its pretty far from perfect*, and stops if you open the CD door...

-while most short voice & sound effects are sparce and low quality like HuCards, play over 'redbook' music, and are still present if you open the CD door. I thought that these sfx were the same as any sfx.

And if the games with a bunch of digitized sfx are only using the ADPCM chip, then why aren't all the sfx in all CD games sampled and clear?



*The dialogue sections in Ys IV that I assumed were streamed are a little popping and hissy like most of that kind(doesn't play off the CD in a music CD player) of in game voice(Snatcher's full of it) in PCE CD games.

But the voice effects in the 3 main villian battles, which use phrases taken from the same speech as the previous rough extended dialogue, is actually cleaner/clearer. I always assumed that these kinds of effects were loaded into the System Card like the graphics.

[Joe Redifer]

You are right, but I am saying that you cannot count streamed ADPCM on Turbo when comparing TurboGrafx games with good/bad voices to Genesis games with good/bad voices since the ADPCM is not part of the TurboGrafx-16 system (it is part of the CD hardware), just as the extra PCM chips in the Sega CD are not part of the Genesis hardware.  Obviously the voices are streamed, there's no way to store all that data in RAM.  Many Sega CD voices (mostly sound effects) are stored in its 512K PCM RAM, though.