Franchises that refuse to give people what they want.

GUTS · 05/16/2007, 02:06 PM

The new Mana game sucks shit, so I was thinking of other franchises where they just flat out refuse to give people the type of game they want and instead keep making games that are nothing like the originals that made them famous. A few came to mind-

Mana (of course)- Yeah the SNES version is antiquated shit now, but part 1 on GB and 3 on snes were good. Why does square keep making these rogue style dungeon games that nobody likes? Seriously if you're going to use an RPG genre that barely anyone still likes, at least make them first person dungeon RPGs like Wizardry so that I'll like them. Rogue type games suck and only fat pasty nerds who use linux still play them.

Shining Force- Despite the fact that the newer Shining games are actually good (unlike the new mana games), people have been whining for a new strat-rpg Shining Force for almost a decade. What's the hold up with Sega? They can't possibly think a strat-rpg would sell any less than those diablo clones did, so why not give their dedicated fans what they want? Fucking baffling.

Castlevania- The super metroid rip-offs are getting old, time for a good old fashioned action game on a real system (shitty portables like the PSP don't count). Hell just port the Drac X psp remake to PS2, that'll work for now.

Hobo Xiphas · 05/16/2007, 03:15 PM

Quote from: GUTS on 05/16/2007, 02:06 PMShining Force- Despite the fact that the newer Shining games are actually good (unlike the new mana games), people have been whining for a new strat-rpg Shining Force for almost a decade. What's the hold up with Sega? They can't possibly think a strat-rpg would sell any less than those diablo clones did, so why not give their dedicated fans what they want? Fucking baffling.

I came in this thread to post that but you beat me.

Seldane · 05/16/2007, 03:30 PM

You mean you think Shining Force Neo and/or Exa is good?

Anyway, you pretty much nailed it with that list. It's not quite complete though.

One word: Ys.

Keranu · 05/16/2007, 04:29 PM

I can't see how Secret of Mana is antiquated these days when it plays just as well as any 2D action RPG of today really.

I would add Final Fantasy and Zelda to this list.

Seldane · 05/16/2007, 04:51 PM

I would not. Final Fantasy and Zelda are two of the rare popular game series that keeps getting better and better by each release. Sales numbers are enough proof of this.

offsidewing · 05/16/2007, 05:33 PM

I don't know about you guys, but I can't believe MS is putting the Deep Blue Franchise on the xbox 360. The Previous 6 Deep Blues have all sucked!

Deep Blue (TG-16) We've all seen this crap shump
Deep Blue - Eternal Deep (PCE-SCD) Thank Godness this was released the same week as LOT and forgotten.
Deep Blue - The Atlantis Saga (SS) - Wow, I could have swore this was just a release of the original with the same PSG music! Ooo, six button control!!
Deep Blue - Resurrecting the Edmund Fitzgerald (PSX) Wow. A lame turn-based RPG that pretty much stole everything but the title from Wild Arms. I'm glad this never came to America.
Deep Blue - Posiedon Tactics (PSX) - Sadly in the wake of the "tactics" games, this far miss made it to US soil. If it wasn't for the Burger King kid's meal it came in, I'd never known they made this game.
Deep Blue - Neptune's Fury (PS2) How do we make a miserable franchise worse after two failed cross overs? Go back to the original foul tasting formula. It's a better shit shooter because this time you're a mollusk!

What will the Xbox 360 version be like?? Anyone heard of the working title yet??

nat · 05/16/2007, 05:42 PM

Quote from: offsidewing on 05/16/2007, 05:33 PMI don't know about you guys, but I can't believe MS is putting the Deep Blue Franchise on the xbox 360. The Previous 6 Deep Blues have all sucked!

Nice.

NecroPhile · 05/16/2007, 06:01 PM

Quote from: offsidewing on 05/16/2007, 05:33 PMWhat will the Xbox 360 version be like?? Anyone heard of the working title yet??

The official title will be Deep Blue Melange: That's Right Bitch, I Said Deep - Mother Fucking - Blue. It's rumored that they will also include the previously unreleased Deep Blue vs. Ecco - Aquatic Rage originally for the Dreamcast. This was clearly an attempt by Sega to revive one of their popular mascots, and was completed and ready for release. Unfortunately it was canceled due to waning consumer interest in the Dreamcast and the falling popularity of 2D fighters.

CrackTiger · 05/16/2007, 07:29 PM

Quote from: Seldane on 05/16/2007, 04:51 PMI would not. Final Fantasy and Zelda are two of the rare popular game series that keeps getting better and better by each release. Sales numbers are enough proof of this.

So by your logic, 50 Cent Bulletproof is gaming perfection?

Some series that haven't turned out how I want:

Zelda
Metroid
Final Fantasy
Ys
Sonic
Contra
Tengai Makyou
Bomberman
Shining Force
Phantasy Star
Gradius
Megaman
Grandia
Lunar
Street Fighter(soon to be fixed?)
Virtua Fighter needs online play, even if its technically flawed...
Beat 'em ups like Final Fight...
RPG's in general...

...I guess it'd be easier to compile a short list of the few that aren't broken.

Seldane · 05/16/2007, 07:53 PM

Not really, but I mean that Zelda and Final Fantasy are getting more popular by each release. And I've played them. They ARE better than their predecessors.

Gradius
Grandia

Shocking! I consider Grandia 1 and early Gradius games crap, but I absolutely LOVE Grandia 2-3 (3 in particular) as well as Gradius 5.

GUTS · 05/16/2007, 09:06 PM

The difference is that Zelda is basically the same game it's always been, there haven't been any radical departures since Zelda II (going 3D doesn't count since Ocarina still followed the same formula). Same with FF up until XII, same stuff that fans love.

Phantasy Star is a good addition though, the online games were great but everybody wants a real turn-based RPG.

Kitsunexus · 05/16/2007, 09:38 PM

Star Fox and $onic.

Hobo Xiphas · 05/16/2007, 09:46 PM

Quote from: Seldane on 05/16/2007, 07:53 PMShocking! I consider Grandia 1 and early Gradius games crap, but I absolutely LOVE Grandia 2-3 (3 in particular) as well as Gradius 5.

You have an odd taste in Grandia games (but I haven't played 3 yet). I agree with you about Gradius (especially Gradius 5).

Keranu · 05/16/2007, 11:30 PM

Quote from: Kitsunexus on 05/16/2007, 09:38 PMStar Fox and $onic.

Great choices! That new Star Fox for DS is pretty good, but I still want a traditional Star Fox game, damn it!

Kitsunexus · 05/16/2007, 11:49 PM

I only liked Star Fox Adventures.

CrackTiger · 05/17/2007, 08:31 AM

Quote from: GUTS on 05/16/2007, 09:06 PMThe difference is that Zelda is basically the same game it's always been, there haven't been any radical departures since Zelda II (going 3D doesn't count since Ocarina still followed the same formula). Same with FF up until XII, same stuff that fans love.

Phantasy Star is a good addition though, the online games were great but everybody wants a real turn-based RPG.

I guess it all depends on what each person likes about a series. To me, everything that made Zelda fun has been ruined, its more linear than ever and you spend more time running across the planet than Dragon Slayer II.

Same with Final Fantasy. The early games may have experimented with different styles/systems, but FFVII up rasically changed the gameplay/design a lot more than the Castlevania'sa going 'metroid'.... at least for me.

BonkThis · 05/17/2007, 08:43 AM

whats the deal with "Street Fighter(soon to be fixed?)"

Is this XBox arcade thing with the HD?

Seldane · 05/17/2007, 09:08 AM

Quote from: Keranu on 05/16/2007, 11:30 PM
Quote from: Kitsunexus on 05/16/2007, 09:38 PMStar Fox and $onic.
Great choices! That new Star Fox for DS is pretty good, but I still want a traditional Star Fox game, damn it!

I agree completely. Star Fox and Star Fox 64 were amazing games, but the sequels have been crap. Same goes for Sonic. I liked the first two games, but the rest hasn't interested me at all.

NecroPhile · 05/17/2007, 11:43 AM

Quote from: BonkThis on 05/17/2007, 08:43 AMwhats the deal with "Street Fighter(soon to be fixed?)"

Is this XBox arcade thing with the HD?

http://press.capcom.com/release.asp?i=26

According to the press release - Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix will be the original game engine with redrawn art in high definition. It's planned for release on both Xbox Live and Playstation Network.

BonkThis · 05/17/2007, 11:52 AM

Quote from: guest on 05/17/2007, 11:43 AM
Quote from: BonkThis on 05/17/2007, 08:43 AMwhats the deal with "Street Fighter(soon to be fixed?)"

Is this XBox arcade thing with the HD?
http://press.capcom.com/release.asp?i=26

According to the press release - Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix will be the original game engine with redrawn art in high definition. It's planned for release on both Xbox Live and Playstation Network.

since I do not have a xbox i could be wrong but that basically means there is no physical disk right? you just download and play it?

offsidewing · 05/17/2007, 01:23 PM

Diddy Kong.

And I quote Austin Powers: "Why won't you die!"

NecroPhile · 05/17/2007, 01:48 PM

Quote from: BonkThis on 05/17/2007, 11:52 AMsince I do not have a xbox i could be wrong but that basically means there is no physical disk right? you just download and play it?

Correct - but it will undoubtedly end up on later compilation discs too.

GUTS · 05/17/2007, 02:32 PM

Awesome, Starfox and Sonic are great examples. I haven't liked a Sonic game since the first Sonic Adventure on Dreamcast, and everything after Starfox 64 has been total crap.

JoshTurboTrollX · 05/17/2007, 03:09 PM

How about Mario?

What was the last good Mario game? Mario 64?

C'mon bring us some GOOD CONSOLE mario games!!!

I have both New Super Mario Bros. and Super Paper Mario- and those are good games, so I guess They aren't totally refusing to give us what we want....

But damn it I still want a REAL Super Mario Bros. 4!!

Doesn't everyone?

nat · 05/17/2007, 04:34 PM

Quote from: turbo_sage on 05/17/2007, 03:09 PMHow about Mario?

What was the last good Mario game? Mario 64?

C'mon bring us some GOOD CONSOLE mario games!!!

I have both New Super Mario Bros. and Super Paper Mario- and those are good games, so I guess They aren't totally refusing to give us what we want....

But damn it I still want a REAL Super Mario Bros. 4!!

Doesn't everyone?

C'mon, Super Mario World is Super Mario Bros. 4 in everything but name. In fact, for a long time before it came out and even to a less extent to this day I still think of it as SMB4.

Seldane · 05/17/2007, 05:45 PM

Super Mario World is called Super Mario Bros. 4 in Japan. End of story.

PS: New Super Mario Bros ROCKS, so I don't have anything to complain about there. Sure, Sunshine was pretty horrible, and Galaxy or whatever will most definitely suck, but whatever.

GUTS · 05/17/2007, 11:12 PM

I hear New Super Mario is ultra easy so it's not that great. I have no problem with Mario games, sure Sunshine was pretty lame but the Paper Mario series has more than made up for it. Hell Super Paper Mario is almost a traditional Mario game.

Keranu · 05/18/2007, 03:07 AM

New Super Mario Bros. is a good game, but yeah definitely way, way too easy. It's an outstanding step to an old skool direction and while it captures the feel of Super Mario Bros. 1 - 3 pretty darn well, it's still not quite as old skool as I would've wanted it to be. Never the less, it's certainly a game worth playing.

Seldane · 05/18/2007, 05:40 AM

I must suck, but I actually found New Super Mario Bros. quite challenging! Much harder than SMB 1-3. In fact, I've never finished it.

CrackTiger · 05/18/2007, 08:13 AM

Quote from: Keranu on 05/18/2007, 03:07 AMNew Super Mario Bros. is a good game, but yeah definitely way, way too easy. It's an outstanding step to an old skool direction and while it captures the feel of Super Mario Bros. 1 - 3 pretty darn well, it's still not quite as old skool as I would've wanted it to be. Never the less, it's certainly a game worth playing.

I'm pretty sure that my girlfiend got to the final world the first day she played it.

Of course, she's not as handicapped as the average girl(or boy) with games or anything.

Keranu · 05/18/2007, 03:50 PM

Me and my brothers all beat it in practically one sitting.

CrackTiger · 05/18/2007, 08:18 PM

Quote from: Keranu on 05/18/2007, 03:50 PMMe and my brothers all beat it in practically one sitting.

I haven't played more than a few levels. But my girlfriend got stuck once or twice and before she figured it out, I grabbed the DS and blazed through each area without understand all the controls.

I still prefer easy good-games over cheap hard good ones.

kenomac78 · 05/19/2007, 08:54 PM

i feel that the only true withholden franchise is sonic. nothing has been good since sonic 3. the adventures 1 and 2 were ok but really the series has been in the toilet for 10 years.

mario series is close 2nd but they do take their time on making sure the game is great, then waiting an extra year to release it. if you think about it mario bros came out in 1983 and smb in 85, which ever you want to count first. super mario galaxy would only be super mario bros. 8 or 9, depening on if you count new smb, personally i dont. so thats 8 or 9 games in 22 years! look at mega man, sonic, final fantasy and others, more games in less time or the same number of games in less time. instead there were 90 spinoffs of games you didnt need like mario tennis and baseball and 8 damn mario partys! but kart and smash bros series are good.

also nintendo has still never given us a true sequal to kid icarus, which i know makes many people mad, and now we have gone past the nes, snes, 64, and game cube waiting. the kind of game we missed out on! hopefully there will be one for wii.

after that theres a lot of different games with no sequels i would like to see

Seldane · 05/20/2007, 10:10 AM

You count stuff like Mario Sunshine and Galaxy but not New Mario? Why?

esteban · 05/20/2007, 12:53 PM

Well, my list doesn't really count because these series are dead, but I'd like to add:

1. Rygar -- The PS2 version was an unexpected gift, but it just made me lust for a true sequel to Rygar NES. Yes, that's right, I know I'm probably in the minority, but as much as I love Rygar Arcade (& Lynx), the NES Rygar had so much more going for it (exploration, depth, obtaining items to progress, etc.). Personally, Rygar PS2 really didn't satisfy my desire for a new Rygar game. Even though I want Neo-Rygar-NES, I'd love to play a new game that was a direct descendent of the arcade, in 2D with multiple branching paths and tons of hack-n-slash fury. OK, I don't know what the new Wii Rygar game is gonna be like, but I have my doubts...

2. Ninja Gaiden -- I actually love the Xbox game (despite the fact that it kicks my ass)... it is was of the turning points for me in how I looked at the Xbox. That said, I really don't consider it part of the Ninja Gaiden series (sorry!). Yes, I want an old-skool Ninja Gaiden game in 2D with over-the-top action that demands platforming skills, first and foremost. Then, hack-n-slash. Hmmmm, it seems as if there is a theme to my top 2 picks. I know it sounds corny, but I would love a great story to be part of a new NG 2D game -- something that revisits the old games and really incorporates some of the old storylines. You know, I wouldn't mind a prequel or a NG 1.5 as far as storylines go...

3. Contra -- COME ON! I'm sorry, but I really wanted more from the recent entries. You know what I am talking about. I want 100% action, non-stop. I want creativity. But no, I don't want to feel as if I am spending a lot of time merely watching the game, waiting to play it. MOST OF ALL, I want the atmosphere to go back to the brooding, scary Alien-esque atmosphere of the original game. I don't care if they are lazy and blatantly rip-off Aliens, so long as they get they conjure up a convincingly spooky atmosphere. Of course, it would be better if they simply use Aliens (and Predator) as a starting point and add some bizarre, unique twists to the Contra universe. I mention Predator because I realized that Contra had lush tropical jungles and was set on Earth...

Kitsunexus · 05/20/2007, 03:58 PM

Contra wasn't supposed to be spooky, dude. It was supposed to be like an 80's action movie, otherwise they wouldn't have NES progressive rock music for every stage.

This being said, all Contras after 1 (excluding HardCorps) suck.

GUTS · 05/20/2007, 10:57 PM

Super C was amazing, I like it better than the original. The gameboy version was pretty sweet too.

TR0N · 05/20/2007, 11:04 PM

Simple a castlevania in 2d for the current consoles.

No more of this keeping them on handheld only bs.

Still i guess konami is too retarded to get the hint. Yet... they keep forceing the 3d ones out and, fail every time at some level.

esteban · 05/20/2007, 11:13 PM

GUTS is quite right, Super C was (is) a phenomenal game.

Quote from: Kitsunexus on 05/20/2007, 03:58 PMContra wasn't supposed to be spooky, dude. It was supposed to be like an 80's action movie, otherwise they wouldn't have NES progressive rock music for every stage.

This being said, all Contras after 1 (excluding HardCorps) suck.

Maybe you don't like the word spooky, perhaps I should choose a better word: I want tension, a thrilling experience that is scary. Spooky even. When I played Contra arcade, and Contra NES, I was *scared*: partly because I didn't know what to expect next, and partly because the setting / theme was sci-fi with a dash of horror. I'm sorry if you don't think that Aliens / Predator was sci-fi with a dash of horror, but that is how I always felt about the movies and the games.

I want Contra w/ two extra servings of sci-fi horror. That's what I want. Maybe I am not asking for the orginal formula (which only hinted at things), maybe I want something else.

This is a thread about fantasies, isn't it?

Kitsunexus · 05/20/2007, 11:39 PM

Contra was more Rambo/Predator than it was Aliens/Predator, dude.

And after reading this thread, I've come to the realization that you could change the title from "Franchises that refuse to give people what they want" to Franchises that refuse to DIE!!", and no one would care, possibly most would agree.

esteban · 05/20/2007, 11:46 PM

Quote from: Kitsunexus on 05/20/2007, 11:39 PMContra was more Rambo/Predator than it was Aliens/Predator, dude.

And after reading this thread, I've come to the realization that you could change the title from "Franchises that refuse to give people what they want" to Franchises that refuse to DIE!!", and no one would care, possibly most would agree.

Sorry, Contra will always be Aliens / Predator for me.

CrackTiger · 05/21/2007, 12:16 PM

Quote from: stevek666 on 05/20/2007, 11:46 PM
Quote from: Kitsunexus on 05/20/2007, 11:39 PMContra was more Rambo/Predator than it was Aliens/Predator, dude.

And after reading this thread, I've come to the realization that you could change the title from "Franchises that refuse to give people what they want" to Franchises that refuse to DIE!!", and no one would care, possibly most would agree.
Sorry, Contra will always be Aliens / Predator for me.

Kitsunexus, Aliens is the one where they send in the marines to a remote base, who end up battling a large Alien at the end.

offsidewing · 05/21/2007, 12:45 PM

Yeah, Contra, isn't that the game with the two Hudson/Hicks lookin' dudes AND a giant Alien on the Box art?

The top of the Waterfall level (Level 3 I think??) you battle a giant alien beast. Level 2 boss is vampire looking dudes. The end boss it simply a giant alien. I remember the music been exceedingly creepy in a couple parts. I dunno, It's been almost 20 years since I played it at the neighbors, so I could be wrong.

Rush'n Attack was straight up Rambo-esqe. Ikari Warriors was all kinds of crazy.

Keranu · 05/21/2007, 07:55 PM

Rush n' Attack kicks so much ass!

CrackTiger · 05/23/2007, 07:37 PM

Quote from: Keranu on 05/21/2007, 07:55 PMRush n' Attack kicks so much ass!

In Soviet Rush, ass kicks you!

Kitsunexus · 05/23/2007, 11:37 PM

IN ZERG RUSH, PROTOSS AND TERRAN ALL DIE!

/here's hoping StarCraft 2 is AWESOME.

kenomac78 · 06/04/2007, 05:55 AM

Quote from: Seldane on 05/20/2007, 10:10 AMYou count stuff like Mario Sunshine and Galaxy but not New Mario? Why?

i only dont consider new SMB as part of the main series because it is on the DS and not on a main console like the others. if it mustbe counted then so shouldnt all the mario/wario lands and etc? i dont think that monst of those games are up to the standard of the other games. plus all the advnce serie are just remakes, it ets into a tricky way of classifying things

ParanoiaDragon · 06/05/2007, 02:09 AM

I count all NSMB as part of the regular series, as it's deffinitly more like the original games, rather then the gameboy games.

Turbo D · 06/05/2007, 06:36 AM

New SuperMarioBros. kicks ass!! I think alot of people dislike it because they suck at it

Kitsunexus · 06/05/2007, 12:20 PM

New Mario should at least be credited with being the only GOOD thing to come out of the franchise in a while.