Capcom rambling

[Seldane]

Looking at the Gamefaqs website, I noticed today's poll... What's your all-time favorite Capcom series?

Breath of Fire
Darkstalkers
Devil May Cry
Ghosts 'n Goblins
Mega Man
Monster Hunter
Resident Evil
Street Fighter

I realized that I couldn't vote today, because I would never play anything in either of these series even if I would get paid for it. I guess nobody except Keranu will understand me on this. How could Capcom get so popular with all these non-solid series? Are they really worth the massive popularity they've gained? Everybody knows about most of these series and they are considered great, but at the same time they have ALL been accused of being too repetitive, i e all the games in the respective series games are practically identical, etc. Basically, Capcom likes milking. A lot. Moreso than ANY other company, I dare say. Why are these games so successful? Do you like them?

Flame away, please.

[Keranu]

Well I voted anyways even though I do hate a strong hatred for Capcom. Though just because I hate them doesn't mean I can't like some of their games . I voted Street Fighter just because SFII was a huge revolution and I play a couple of other games in the series, though I'm not really a fan of the series in general and pissed about their milking of the series.

I think the reason why Capcom series are so popular is because they have a style that appeals to people, no matter how much the series might suck in general. Now even though I hate Mega Man to death, I can honestly say that he's a great iconic character that looks like could make for a fun game. Same with Resident Evil; it looks really cool because you're killing zombies and stuff and there is all that suspense, but I think that alone is what makes the series so successful despite how crusty some might find the controls.

All Capcom needs to do is think of a style that will appeal to lots of people and focus on that soley to please people and then they can milk it out for every penny it's worth .

[Turbo D]

funny story, my friend named his son after the dude in devil my cry 

[nat]

Wow...

I never really thought about it, but I guess Capcom DOES have a habit of overdoing it when it comes to series.

Not that their games are bad as a general rule, but did we really need 20+ MegaMan games? Milking indeed! I really like MegaMan X4, though.

[Keranu]

Wow...

I never really thought about it, but I guess Capcom DOES have a habit of overdoing it when it comes to series.

Not that their games are bad as a general rule, but did we really need 20+ MegaMan games? Milking indeed! I really like MegaMan X4, though.

You see, it's a big shame to me because I really want to get into games like MegaMan, but there are just some things that I just don't like ab00t it. Megaman 1 - 6 (or 2 - 6 rather) are basically the same game with different levels, just imagine if each one of those games had taken the time to be improved upon instead. We could've seen new gameplay abilities like the ability to shoot up or even diagonally, improved graphics, extra features, etc... and this is just for the NES games. Hell I would've rather seen three Mega Man games made for NES that had better development than six quick titles. When I see game companies do this (including SNK, who I love), I just think it's a sad way of showing how much more they care about profit than games.

[MotoRoaderMike]

Mega Man only made second place?? WHAT THE FUCK??!! It should be #1!!!

[esteban]

OK, I'll be lame and defend Capcom .

I like Capcom, because they made a lot of really great games. I don't care about series, because as soon as you start talking about a series, you are going to talk about the extent to which a franchise is milked (and milked, and milked).

Capcom's titles for NES are the reason I love them. Sure, I love their arcade games, but I think the NES games kick ass!

Bionic Commando (NES). Friggin' great -- why the hell didn't they make another installment? I would be happy if it was the same game with different levels! I'm serious.

19XX -- I like the series in general, but I really liked this installment. Of course, 1943 (NES) kicked ass!

Duck Tales and all the other Disney titles for NES -- good stuff!

Nemo (NES) ....

Section Z (NES) / Sidearms / Forgotten Worlds -- I like these games

Commando (Arcade) -- Yay!

GUNSMOKE kicks ass!

Mercs...

Strider...

Come on, there's a lot to like about Capcom, and I haven't even touched the series listed in the poll...

[PCEngineHell]

I agree with you,the catch is the trend on that is different between arcade and home to a degree. SNK and others use that practice to improve on titles that they know make money,Like FF2,then FF Special. And Real Bout and RB Special or SF2 to SF 2 Champion Edition.Thing is with those they tend to do some very nice updates to a solid game. I can deal with this practice when it comes to arcade games.Its needed. I know its their formula they have used for years,and it works,and it helps them keep money coming in so they can put out completely new titles too that are not considered safe releases typically.the only one to ever really completely abuse this practice was Capcom when they lost alot of their creative staff to SNK. That hit them really hard and they did not cope real well.

You might offer up the argument that this also happened on the AES too,because they share the same titles as the MVS,so SNK was just trying to make more money. The argument would fail however,because the AES was not making SNK much money at all. Their main money maker was the MVS.This is why the bootlegging of MVS carts hurt them so much. It was the most accessible to players and the easiest for them to sell until the bootlegging started. The AES benefited from the selection of titles the MVS had released for it,and it was a method for the hardcore buyers and players out there to get a chance to bring that selection home if they chose to and could afford to. They knew what they played in their arcade is what they got when they got the AES cart. People knew what they were getting into on the AES,and were getting what they expected. Its a arcade system made for home use with  a 3 credit limit.

The practice is sadly used on normal mainstream home system franchises too where it does more harm then good however. To me Mega Man 1-3 were the best,it has been down hill from there. This tends to go with any Capcom series past the year 1992 most def. Doesn't mean all the latter releases suck completely,its just that they rehash alot of the old and don't get creative and risky which is what put the originals in the top spot. Home system series should have at least a 2 year gap in between sequels. This would allow for more programming time. The thing is though is that these series move from the unsafe seller status to a safe bet seller,so they get less creative effort put on them,its all directed toward other things,or they even hire out other groups to handle the game,like RE Code Veronica because they tend to know that the name of the series alone will sell the title.

[SignOfZeta]

Breath of Fire
Darkstalkers
Devil May Cry
Ghosts 'n Goblins
Mega Man
Monster Hunter
Resident Evil
Street Fighter

Well, um, the poll is favorite "series", so therefore there are going to be a lot of games to think about.

I fucking love Street Fighter. I loved it when SFII hit arcades, and I've loved it ever since. Obviously there are some stinkers (the EX series), but for people who actually like Street Fighter, the vast majority of all SF, and SF-related games were eagerly anticipated by fans, so therefore they deserve to exist.

On the other hand, I think even the most die hard Megaman fan would have to admit there are far far too many MM games, and far too many shit ones.

As for milking, I think Bandai has got Capcom beat hands down. Also, any company that makes a WWII FPS at this point needs to have its headquarters burned down. I know WWII isn't an actual series per say, but it might as well be.

[PCEngineHell]

I like SF 2,Champ,Super SF 2 Turbo,Alpha 1-2,SF 3 normal to Third Strike alot.

As long as its a vertical shooter I typically like the WW2 based stuff. I also like to read alot and research that war time period quite a bit via books or film. I always have since I was maybe 11-12 so thats prob part of the reason why I like the Capcom 194x titles and Striker 1945 stuff by Psikyo... I also am a big fan of Return to Castle Wolfenstien and other FPS based on WW2 too. Those are my favorite types of FPS titles.

[Keranu]

I agree with you,the catch is the trend on that is different between arcade and home to a degree. SNK and others use that practice to improve on titles that they know make money,Like FF2,then FF Special. And Real Bout and RB Special or SF2 to SF 2 Champion Edition.Thing is with those they tend to do some very nice updates to a solid game. I can deal with this practice when it comes to arcade games.Its needed. I know its their formula they have used for years,and it works,and it helps them keep money coming in so they can put out completely new titles too that are not considered safe releases typically.the only one to ever really completely abuse this practice was Capcom when they lost alot of their creative staff to SNK. That hit them really hard and they did not cope real well.

You might offer up the argument that this also happened on the AES too,because they share the same titles as the MVS,so SNK was just trying to make more money. The argument would fail however,because the AES was not making SNK much money at all. Their main money maker was the MVS.This is why the bootlegging of MVS carts hurt them so much. It was the most accessible to players and the easiest for them to sell until the bootlegging started. The AES benefited from the selection of titles the MVS had released for it,and it was a method for the hardcore buyers and players out there to get a chance to bring that selection home if they chose to and could afford to. They knew what they played in their arcade is what they got when they got the AES cart. People knew what they were getting into on the AES,and were getting what they expected. Its a arcade system made for home use with  a 3 credit limit.

The practice is sadly used on normal mainstream home system franchises too where it does more harm then good however. To me Mega Man 1-3 were the best,it has been down hill from there. This tends to go with any Capcom series past the year 1992 most def. Doesn't mean all the latter releases suck completely,its just that they rehash alot of the old and don't get creative and risky which is what put the originals in the top spot. Home system series should have at least a 2 year gap in between sequels. This would allow for more programming time. The thing is though is that these series move from the unsafe seller status to a safe bet seller,so they get less creative effort put on them,its all directed toward other things,or they even hire out other groups to handle the game,like RE Code Veronica because they tend to know that the name of the series alone will sell the title.

Good post, I agree with most of that. Some people might think SNK was milking the KoF series by releasing one each year, but I don't agree with this from '94 - '98. From looking at each KoF from '94 - '98, SNK was making some big improvements in those games, especially the '95 to '96 jump and the '96 to '97 jump and by '98, they had the game mechanics just right so they could make the perfect competitive fighter. The series did loose it's charm after '98, but SNK still improved KoF'2000 over '99, even though '99 was a big disaster in my opinion.

[PCEngineHell]

And see with me I love 94-99,don't care much for 2000-2002,and love 2k3. I agree however they did make mistakes with 99. There are things they did well on it,and some things they did not do too hot on,like some of the characters in it. 95-96 are both my top favorites of them all.

[Tatsujin]

for me without any doubts the makaimura/ghosts'n goblins serie! best ever made!!

after that the first gen. of the street fighter II serie.

never played their RPGs (as well a lot of other RPGs).

[Joe Redifer]

What the hell is Monster Hunter?  I  honestly have no clue what that is.  Somehow I feel like I'm not missing out.  Anyway I generally like only one game in each series.  Examples:

Mega Man 2 was clearly the best in every respect, though parts 1 and 3 were almost somewhat decent.  The rest suck ass.  Mega Max X4 is decent, but not great.

Ghouls N' Ghosts was, by far, the best game in that series.  I hate Ghosts N' Goblins and Super Ghouls N' Ghosts quite a bit, probably because they suck.

Resident Evil 4 is the only game in that series that is even remotely worth playing.  The rest can go to hell and burn in a vat of boiling feces.

I didn't know (or care) that there was more than one Breath of Fire game.  I like every Darkstalkers game, though Night Warriors is nearly a clone of the first so I'll take NW over DS.  Devil May Cry sucks ass, I hate it and most other games were I play an emo queer.  I like most Street Fighter games such as Street Fighter 2 Turbo, Street Fighter Alpha 1 & 2 (I like 3 but it seems weird) and Street Fighter 3 2nd Impact.

[PCEngineHell]

Devil May Cry sucks ass, I hate it and most other games were I play an emo queer. 

LOL,Agreed.

[TR0N]

Given how capcom has done rehash so what else is new.

Realy whole industry can take the blame for that beside capcom.

Squarenix,EA,UbiSoft,SNKP,THQ so as long there ppl keep buying them they all ways be rehash's to sell.

I like capcom while there not original these days but i keep coming back to them.

As for my favorites by capcom i list these.

MM 1-3 while MM 4-8 are stale by that point i've them played all.

MMX 1-4 afther that the serise go's down hill if you ask me.

SFII,SF3 Third Strike,SF Alpha 2

Darkstalkers 3/Vampire Savior i still wish capcom would make another DS.

Bionic Commando another forgotten gem by capcom.

1941-19XX still my favorite WWII style shmup by them.

Btw that's all i'll list there's to many any ways.

Also as for breath of fire i never played any of them so no comment.

As for what gamefaqs list list as there top ten.They shouldn't even have the, right in the frist place given what there fanbase is 

[GUTS]

You guys who don't like Capcom must honestly be at least mildly retarded, you should go get that checked out, you could probably get disability money to spend on some new Duo games.  Just tell the goverment official that you don't like Capcom and I'm sure they'll get you signed right up.

[Tatsujin]

i liked capcom the best between '84 and '93. those were the days of great arcade games in which capcom played its greates role as a game manufacturer. nowadays, i can't say about just one game i really desire. but that's kind of a general problem of mine.

[Keranu]

You guys who don't like Capcom must honestly be at least mildly retarded, you should go get that checked out, you could probably get disability money to spend on some new Duo games.  Just tell the goverment official that you don't like Capcom and I'm sure they'll get you signed right up.

This is coming from the racist with the sandcock avatar.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Well, I love milking cows personally.  I can never seem to get enough of a good thing, whether it be Castleroids like the current CV games, or the Mega Man ZX series.  When there's something I love, I love to keep playing sequals that aren't that much different from it.  BTW, I voted Mega Man, as, I love most of the games, with exception to the BN series.  That doesn't mean I love every single game, like X7 is mostly terrible, as is the original MM7.  But in a general sense, I love the entire series minus BN.

[Seldane]

Damn, what an unexpected response. I agree with Joe though, I also like one game in some of Capcom's series, like Mega Man 2 and Resident Evil 4. I also agree with esteban that some of their stand-alone NES titles were really good, like Duck Tales or Gun Smoke.

Well, I love milking cows personally.  I can never seem to get enough of a good thing, whether it be Castleroids like the current CV games, or the Mega Man ZX series.  When there's something I love, I love to keep playing sequals that aren't that much different from it.  BTW, I voted Mega Man, as, I love most of the games, with exception to the BN series.  That doesn't mean I love every single game, like X7 is mostly terrible, as is the original MM7.  But in a general sense, I love the entire series minus BN.

So that's why you like Ys Origin.

[CrackTiger]

I don't see how Capcom can be faulted for putting out the same kinds of popular crap series that everyone else does.

[Ninja Spirit]

To me the day Capcom died is in addition to these Rockman spin-offs I've totally lost track of, the Street Fighter/Final Fight licenses were handed over to Capcom USA.

Come to think of it, I'd rather play FF Revenge for Saturn than Streetwise.

When I go back and think about the FF titles for arcade and Super NES, Streetwise was just out of place with that whole zombie thing and rap music.

[TJ]

Wow, all the hate on Capcom. I'm a fan. And although I do agree that Mega Man has been milked almost dry (I do think they could still go great new things with the franchise if they wanted), what you have to keep in mind is that Capcom, like every developer, is a business. And if churning out Mega Man sequels and Street Fighter rehashes makes Capcom lots of money, then they would be stupid to stop. Meanwhile, they can squeak out the occasional original title like Okami and show that they are still willing to try new things, but let's face it, if stuff like MM and RE sequels were YOUR bread and butter, you'd keep pooping 'em out too.

[Keranu]

Damn, what an unexpected response. I agree with Joe though, I also like one game in some of Capcom's series, like Mega Man 2 and Resident Evil 4. I also agree with esteban that some of their stand-alone NES titles were really good, like Duck Tales or Gun Smoke.

I somewhat agree with that too even though I still don't really like MM2 and I haven't played RE4 yet but I've been interested in it for a couple of years. By the way, I kept thinking Gun Smoke was made by Konami! I love that game !

I don't see how Capcom can be faulted for putting out the same kinds of popular crap series that everyone else does.

I personally think Capcom does it to an extreme that's just downright ridiculous. I can understand a company like SNK making a "Special" version of a game like Fatal Fury 2 which lets you play as the boss characters, even though I think it should've been like that to begin with, but having five (more?) versions of Street Fighter II is insane and most of the versions were released in a very close time period within each other.

Here's another interesting thing I'd like to bring up. Why is that previous generation games that get ported to the Wii get so much crap from people while Resident Evil 4 doesn't? People say it's awesome because it combines the best of the Gamecube and PS2 versions, but isn't this what other ported games to the Wii do as well yet get much more criticism? I understand RE4 was a very successful game, but I still find this interesting.

[CrackTiger]

Keranu, those SFII updates to acade pcbs were just that: updates. The practice is common to this day. Its like adding content to an Xbox 360 game with a download. Its a bonus, not something negative. It still cost a quarter to play.

How publishers decide to put out home ports is a different issue. But the 3 home versions of SFII on SNES offer way more with each version than what is acceptible with sports titles and each one was still the best fighting game as they were released(during history's biggest flood of fighting games).

Mortal Kombat is way worse a series for unnecesary sequels than Street Fighter II. Plus, how many King of Fighters and Metal Slugs are there that recycle elements from previous games?

But even if a company does some things that someone doesn't like, that shouldn't cancel out the good things.

Two of the best releases of the last year or so are Capcom Classics Collection 1 & 2. And while Sega gave us like 5 Sonic games this past year(that most people hated) and Konami pumps out more Metal Gear Solid and Castlevania rehashes... Capcom was making stuff like Phoenix Wright, Lost Planet, Monster Hunter, Dead Rising and Okami.

I think that SFII CE is way more justified than FF Special. Everyone begged for more SFII while most people didn't know what Fatal Fury was.

[Kitsunexus]

Capcom from the 80's to 1998 was awesome.

[Joe Redifer]

OK I think I know what Monster Hunter is now.  Is it that game for the PS2 where you wander around lonely spaces in 3D, fighting an occasional monster while trying to collect stuff?  That's all I remember of it.  I illegally downloaded a game to my PS2 hard drive which I think had that name.  It was pretty boring.

[Kitsunexus]

OK I think I know what Monster Hunter is now.  Is it that game for the PS2 where you wander around lonely spaces in 3D, fighting an occasional monster while trying to collect stuff?  That's all I remember of it.  I illegally downloaded a game to my PS2 hard drive which I think had that name.  It was pretty boring.

Yep, you nailed it. Also had a PSP port, a just as bad sequel, and now it's getting it's own crappy MMO.

[Keranu]

Keranu, those SFII updates to acade pcbs were just that: updates. The practice is common to this day.

I understand they were updates, but I argue that they were obsesive with their updates just for one game. Championship Edition was a great idea, as I said with Fatal Fury Special, it gives the players the chance to play as the boss characters as well and you know there is always a nerd who is gonna choose the bad guys .

But then there was SF2 Turbo, which from all I understand added the option to let you change the speed and if you ask me, that's a ridiculous feature for a seperate update and should've been included with another update. Then there was Super, which I liked becaues it added more characters, albeit silly characters, but a fun feature even though I think this should've already been already included with CE. However Super didn't include the speed adjustments from the "Turbo" verison, so yet that leaves room for another update; SUPER Street Fighter II TURBO. I did like how this game added super moves, but once again I feel this didn't need a seperate update, not to mention it's butchering the title name .

Its like adding content to an Xbox 360 game with a download. Its a bonus, not something negative. It still cost a quarter to play.

Those are just downloads, so it's more understandable for me to see updates like that. However by milking out SF2, this gave Capcom the chance to sell different versions of SF2 to arcades again and again to ensure it would never get old. From a business point of view, it's quite brilliant when you think about it since it creates more exposure for their product and name by having multiple SF2 cabs in an arcade for an extended period of years but from a gamer side, I just see this as a gimmick. Capcom still hasn't stopped milking SF2 as they released a compliation of all the versions in a arcade cab a few years ago which allows arcades to charge more quarters for it since it's a new game. Heck now they are even making SF2 in HD!

How publishers decide to put out home ports is a different issue. But the 3 home versions of SFII on SNES offer way more with each version than what is acceptible with sports titles and each one was still the best fighting game as they were released(during history's biggest flood of fighting games).

I'm not going to argue with you about sports titles like Madden being released every year because those are just as guilty, but I still feel that the home versions of SFII didn't feature all that much of a difference.

Mortal Kombat is way worse a series for unnecesary sequels than Street Fighter II. Plus, how many King of Fighters and Metal Slugs are there that recycle elements from previous games?

Though I'm not a Mortal Kombat fan, I don't really recall the 2D series being milked. There was MK 1 - 3 and they felt like real and improved sequels.

Now I already posted about the KoF series. From '94 - '98, the series made LOTS of improvements and at least SNK actually added years to the end of the title instead of constantly adding new words to an already made title (SUPER STREET FIGHTER II TURBO!). Just compare the gameplay from '94 and '97 and you'll see the big jump in improvement. Not only that, but the games weren't updates like the SF2 series but actual sequels. Each game featured a new story, new characters, new moves/supers (or DMs/SDMs if you prefer SNK lingo ), new backgrounds, and new music (both new compositon and updated songs). I'm sure SNK thought the yearly KoF would make good profit and all too, but unlike games like Madden, they actually made consistent improvements and fulfilling sequels.

Metal Slug 1 - 3 also made big time sequels. Though I didn't like MS2 as much, it was a huge sequel to the first one and MS3 was an absolutely epic sequel. Metal Slug X was totally unnecessary though.

Two of the best releases of the last year or so are Capcom Classics Collection 1 & 2. And while Sega gave us like 5 Sonic games this past year(that most people hated) and Konami pumps out more Metal Gear Solid and Castlevania rehashes... Capcom was making stuff like Phoenix Wright, Lost Planet, Monster Hunter, Dead Rising and Okami.

Once again, I'm not going to argue with you about companies like Konami whoring up their Metal Gear and Castlevania sequels, but I still feel no company has milked series out as bad as Capcom did. You make a good point, Capcom has made quite a few original games recently, but I bet at least some of those games you mentioned will get milked out eventually ;) . Heck, Phoenix Wright is already starting to!

I think that SFII CE is way more justified than FF Special. Everyone begged for more SFII while most people didn't know what Fatal Fury was.

True, but FF2 stopped at Special because that's probably all SNK felt would be reasonable to update. If they wanted to add completely new characters or something, may as well save them for real sequels.

[GUTS]

Nintendo is the worst for rehashing and re-releasing games.  I just bought Yoshi's Island DS thinking it was a sequel, turns out it's the same fucking SNES game I already own, only with some shitty "enhancements" like not being able to see the middle of the screen.  Plus they don't even make their own games anymore, I turned the game on and fucking ARTOON popped up.  God Nintendo has gone down the shit hole, I remember back pre-Gamecube when they were fucking awesome and could do no wrong, now they're just a complete joke.

[Turbo D]

ya, I hate the new nintendo. The new sega is gay too.

[CrackTiger]

But then there was SF2 Turbo, which from all I understand added the option to let you change the speed and if you ask me, that's a ridiculous feature for a separate update and should've been included with another update. Then there was Super, which I liked because it added more characters, albeit silly characters, but a fun feature even though I think this should've already been already included with CE.

SFII Hyper Fighting is a chip that plugs into 'CE to upgrade it just like an Xbox 360 download. There isn't any selectable speed options that I know of. Its faster, re-balances characters, adds new moves like the Yoga Teleport plus midair moves, and has new colors for characters. It was just one more option for people to try while lining up at the row of SFII cabinets back in the day. The only reason Capcom even made it in the first place, is because there was such a demand for something like it that 'illegal' hacks(like Rainbow Edition) had begun showing up everywhere. Hyper Fighting offered similar enhancements to the hacks without ruining the gameplay.

On SNES, all there was was WW. CE was a worthy enough upgrade to get its own release, but Capcom went even further by including Turbo/HF on the same cart. Its a huge leap over WW.

The 'rumour' is that the extra characters from SUPER were suppposed to make it into CE, but they had to put off the extra content when they lost half the development team to SNK. So you can thank the Neo Geo for SUPER SFII. But really, on SNES SUPER was a huge upgrade over Turbo and was once again in a class by itself as far as street fighting games on '16-bit' consoles.

Both the arcade & SNES version added four totally new characters, 8 selectable player colors, a combo counter, recolored bg's with new stuff, new moves, boss endings... even though it was the one version the game mags turned on, its actually the biggest upgrade the series ever saw.

However Super didn't include the speed adjustments from the "Turbo" version, so yet that leaves room for another update; SUPER Street Fighter II TURBO. I did like how this game added super moves, but once again I feel this didn't need a separate update, not to mention it's butchering the title name

SSFIIT's real name is Super Street Fighter II X: Grand Master Challenge. I actually don't like the new super combos the way it was implemented. But once again, this was an arcade upgrade, so whats the big deal? It was the only version on 3DO, so that port certainly wasn't tainting the console.

Virtua Fighter's get upgrades just like Capcom fighters, but no one complains about Sega milking it.

Though I'm not a Mortal Kombat fan, I don't really recall the 2D series being milked. There was MK 1 - 3 and they felt like real and improved sequels.

Don't forget Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3. Its easier to improve on something of lower quality.


Now I already posted about the KoF series. From '94 - '98, the series made LOTS of improvements and at least SNK actually added years to the end of the title instead of constantly adding new words to an already made title (SUPER STREET FIGHTER II TURBO!). Just compare the gameplay from '94 and '97 and you'll see the big jump in improvement.

Yeah, but 11 editions in 11 years, regardless of quality, sounds exactly like what you're accusing Capcom of. I don't think that any other non-sports series has done this as bad. Plus don't they recycle sprites/bgs in every edition? At the very least, I think that SNK is as guilty of 'milking' their franchises as Capcom.

Metal Slug 1 - 3 also made big time sequels. Though I didn't like MS2 as much, it was a huge sequel to the first one and MS3 was an absolutely epic sequel. Metal Slug X was totally unnecessary though.

Just like Megaman 2 is a huge improvement over Megaman 1.

Once again, I'm not going to argue with you about companies like Konami whoring up their Metal Gear and Castlevania sequels, but I still feel no company has milked series out as bad as Capcom did. You make a good point, Capcom has made quite a few original games recently, but I bet at least some of those games you mentioned will get milked out eventually ;) . Heck, Phoenix Wright is already starting to!

I'm glad when we get more of something good. Like Phoenix Wright sequels. I wouldn't mind a real sequel or two to Snatcher. And I don't think there's anything wrong with Policenauts. I'd rather we got FFVI EXE, TM: Kabuki Invades Africa and Ys IV: Origins back in the day instead of FFXII's and FFXIII's today.


Capcom never made SFII updates as a gimmick. All they ever did was respond to their fans. Look at the response to SFII HD. The only injustice Capcom is serving their fans is not getting it out the door fast enough.

I think that you're just not overly familiar with the differences in the SNES SFII ports. Each was more than justifiable. But on Genesis all there was was Special CE and SSFIIT. PCE only got CE. The SNES is the one console that received as many as 3 games and even if they weren't the major updates that they are... its only 3 games. 

Nintendo is the worst for rehashing and re-releasing games.  I just bought Yoshi's Island DS thinking it was a sequel, turns out it's the same fucking SNES game I already own, only with some shitty "enhancements" like not being able to see the middle of the screen.

Was it really the DS game or the GBA version? I know that the GBA version is port of the SNES game, but I thought that the DS game was something new (level wise at least).

Plus they don't even make their own games anymore, I turned the game on and fucking ARTOON popped up.  God Nintendo has gone down the shit hole, I remember back pre-Gamecube when they were fucking awesome and could do no wrong, now they're just a complete joke.

And now they're more successful than ever! 

[Tatsujin]

ya, I hate the new nintendo. The new sega is gay too.

and the new konami, taito, capcom, namco...

[SignOfZeta]

Nintendo is the worst for rehashing and re-releasing games.  I just bought Yoshi's Island DS thinking it was a sequel, turns out it's the same fucking SNES game I already own, only with some shitty "enhancements" like not being able to see the middle of the screen.  Plus they don't even make their own games anymore, I turned the game on and fucking ARTOON popped up.  God Nintendo has gone down the shit hole, I remember back pre-Gamecube when they were fucking awesome and could do no wrong, now they're just a complete joke.

As for other people making their games, that sort of thing happened a lot in the past too. You just didn't know about it because they didn't give credit.

As for doing no wrong pre-GC...did you ever play an N64 game? Like, Yoshi's Story for N64 for example which is fucking horrible?

The new Nintendo still does lots of good stuff, they just don't have quite the track record they used it. Sega has been the real loss. They were on such a roll back in the SS-DC days (and earlier than that in the arcades) but now they produce nearly nothing worth playing whatsoever.

[PCEngineHell]

CrackTiger,The KOF series was more or less a celebration series for the system. You could count on one every year,that was its purpose. They never really recycled the backgrounds.... The characters,yes,but that is simply expected. They are not supposed to change drastically in look. That would have simply pissed the SNK fans of the series off. This is why I do not like 2k1-2k2. I hate the new characters in those and how they look. They don't match the art style at all. The one by SNK I do not really enjoy at all is 2000,because I didn't like the whole cast all that much story wise.Also I hate 2k1-2k2 because Eolith did it and they acted like instead of a SNK celebration it was a Akira celebration.... 2k3 on up has more then made up for those 3.

[CrackTiger]

Black Tiger,The KOF series was more or less a celebration series for the system. You could count on one every year,that was its purpose. They never really recycled the backgrounds.... The characters,yes,but that is simply expected. They are not supposed to change drastically in look. That would have simply pissed the SNK fans of the series off. This is why I do not like 2k1-2k2. I hate the new characters in those and how they look. They don't match the art style at all. The one by SNK I do not really enjoy at all is 2000,because I didn't like the whole cast all that much story wise.Also I hate 2k1-2k2 because Eolith did it and they acted like instead of a SNK celebration it was a Akira celebration.... 2k3 on up has more then made up for those 3.

I think that KoF is a great idea. Although I've never gotten into Neo Geo fighters, I was really glad when KoF '94 came out.

I just think that its the perfect example of the kinda thing Keranu's crying foul about.

[Joe Redifer]

CrackTiger, it's OK when that happens on the Neo Geo.  It's not OK when anyone else does it.  Right Keranu ;)

Anyway, at least the KoF series had different BGs and music (from what I remember) every year.  I did not like what they did with Super Street Fighter 2 when they put in the new announcer who sounded 13 years old at best.

[ParanoiaDragon]

To me the day Capcom died is in addition to these Rockman spin-offs I've totally lost track of, the Street Fighter/Final Fight licenses were handed over to Capcom USA.

Come to think of it, I'd rather play FF Revenge for Saturn than Streetwise.

When I go back and think about the FF titles for arcade and Super NES, Streetwise was just out of place with that whole zombie thing and rap music.

Final Fight Streetwise.......is beyond crap.  It's some kind of wannabe sandbox game, with like you said, all rap music, cussing, ultra violence, the whole game seems pointless.  I'm glad I didn't spend much on it, I think I got more for it, then what I spent

And yeah, Ys Origin rocks, milk that cow Falcom!  Actually, for their next game, I wouldn't mind a new engine, though, I hate having to upgrade my video card when it becomes obsolete, so I hope they don't do anythign too drastic!

Oh, & Yoshi's Island for DS is a new game, it's a sequal, not a remake of the GBA/SNES game.  I have it, I haven't played all the way thru it, but, it IS a new game!  It's obviously similar(which suits me just fine) to the original.

[CrackTiger]

Black Tiger, it's OK when that happens on the Neo Geo.  It's not OK when anyone else does it.  Right Keranu ;)

Anyway, at least the KoF series had different BGs and music (from what I remember) every year.  I did not like what they did with Super Street Fighter 2 when they put in the new announcer who sounded 13 years old at best.

Yeah, I hated that guy. Everything he says is in question form. "Guile?, Win?!"

The Alpha/Zero 3 announcer is also goofy, but in an entertaining cheezy way.    "Go for bro!"  "Try it or die!"


Thats something I forgot about SSFII. It has new voices and music. The SNES version sounds better than the arcade from what I remember.

Also, SFII Turbo SNES has a slightly improved soundtrack over WW SNES plus all new voice.

[PCEngineHell]

Real Bouts announcer is  a joke too.

[Turbo D]

Sega has been the real loss. They were on such a roll back in the SS-DC days (and earlier than that in the arcades) but now they produce nearly nothing worth playing whatsoever.

seriously, everyone do yourself a favor and do not buy rent or play sonic the hedgehog for ps3. Its seriously that bad.

[Joe Redifer]

SSF2 also changed Guile's voice into that of the new announcer.  Guile's Sonic Boom sounded like a polite suggestion.  Ug.

[GUTS]

If Yoshi's Island DS is a sequel, then it's the laziest, shittiest sequel of all time.  Everything looks exactly the same right down to the level layouts.

[Keranu]

The only reason Capcom even made it in the first place, is because there was such a demand for something like it that 'illegal' hacks(like Rainbow Edition) had begun showing up everywhere. Hyper Fighting offered similar enhancements to the hacks without ruining the gameplay.

Or perhaps Capcom just wanted to get a little piece of that action themselves to make some extra dough ;) . Just joking, somewhat at least.

On SNES, all there was was WW. CE was a worthy enough upgrade to get its own release, but Capcom went even further by including Turbo/HF on the same cart. Its a huge leap over WW.

The 'rumour' is that the extra characters from SUPER were suppposed to make it into CE, but they had to put off the extra content when they lost half the development team to SNK. So you can thank the Neo Geo for SUPER SFII.

Interesting rumor, thanks for sharing that, I believe I recall reading about that before. However keep in mind it's a "rumor", not that I really think it matters.

But really, on SNES SUPER was a huge upgrade over Turbo and was once again in a class by itself as far as street fighting games on '16-bit' consoles.

Both the arcade & SNES version added four totally new characters, 8 selectable player colors, a combo counter, recolored bg's with new stuff, new moves, boss endings... even though it was the one version the game mags turned on, its actually the biggest upgrade the series ever saw.

Once again, I consider these to be small updates and I think this should've all been available in CE. I'm not saying these updates aren't cool, but when Capcom makes more than one update for it, I think that's going too far. As I've said, CE is a good and definitely reasonable update and I think the new SF2 in HD update is a great idea since it gives the game a whole new look instead of just small features like extra colored suits. Granted I think the new artwork in the HD version looks a little stupid, I still think a big change like this is what makes for a reasonable update.

SSFIIT's real name is Super Street Fighter II X: Grand Master Challenge. I actually don't like the new super combos the way it was implemented. But once again, this was an arcade upgrade, so whats the big deal? It was the only version on 3DO, so that port certainly wasn't tainting the console.

As I've said, this update still gives Capcom more attention in the arcades hence more money for them, not to mention software to later be released for a console to make even more money off of. This brings up an interesting point though, I am really amazed that SSFIIX didn't get as much console porting as the other versions. For a version of the game that's like the macdaddy of them all, you'd think it get spreaded on more consoles, especially when it's Capcom we're talking about here .

Virtua Fighter's get upgrades just like Capcom fighters, but no one complains about Sega milking it.

I don't really know much about VF's updates, but from the looks of it, VF1-4 had at least one update and from what I read on Wikipedia, the Remix version for the first versions was given away free. VF4 had two updates and that ain't cool with me since I feel a game should really only be given one update. Overall though, this is nothing compared to SF2 or the SF series in general in my opinion.

Don't forget Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3. Its easier to improve on something of lower quality.

Once again, that's only one update, nothing compared to SF2. I don't really know of the differences between Ultimate and the original, but it seems like the same kinda small stuff Capcom added to some of their updates of SF2. And true, it is easier to improve on something of lower quality and it's very good for something of lower quality to get updates, but SF2 was of such high quality that it didn't need all the updates it got. Plus I doubt all of those people in the MK hype back when it came out thought MK was of low quality .

Yeah, but 11 editions in 11 years, regardless of quality, sounds exactly like what you're accusing Capcom of. I don't think that any other non-sports series has done this as bad. Plus don't they recycle sprites/bgs in every edition? At the very least, I think that SNK is as guilty of 'milking' their franchises as Capcom.

They are sequels, not exactly editions. As I said, each KoF made big improvements on various aspects of the game each year while SF2 was only receiving updates for the same game. It's like a miracle how different and improved each KoF game is from '94 - '98 because the average Joe would just expect it to be like Madden where it's just new player stats and KoF is far from that. And as Michael said, no the KoFs didn't recycle backgrounds. Even the sprites weren't recycled, though most of them usually followed the same design for some years, they still got some graphical updates. Heck in fact, Athena gets a new sprite design each game!

Just like Megaman 2 is a huge improvement over Megaman 1.

Now I've said this before in the other Capcom debate thread that I did think Megaman 2 was a good sequel to the first one and actually felt like a sequel, unlike the later Megaman games to follow. While by no means I don't think it's a "huge improvement" like you do, it definitely works well as a sequel.

I'm glad when we get more of something good. Like Phoenix Wright sequels. I wouldn't mind a real sequel or two to Snatcher. And I don't think there's anything wrong with Policenauts. I'd rather we got FFVI EXE, TM: Kabuki Invades Africa and Ys IV: Origins back in the day instead of FFXII's and FFXIII's today.

I'm all for getting more good stuff but I feel to reuse something that's already good is just lazy and developers should always be looking for something new.

Capcom never made SFII updates as a gimmick. All they ever did was respond to their fans. Look at the response to SFII HD. The only injustice Capcom is serving their fans is not getting it out the door fast enough.

I think that you're just not overly familiar with the differences in the SNES SFII ports. Each was more than justifiable. But on Genesis all there was was Special CE and SSFIIT. PCE only got CE. The SNES is the one console that received as many as 3 games and even if they weren't the major updates that they are... its only 3 games. 

You're right, I don't know a whole lot about the differences in the SNES SFII ports since I never really bothered with them much, but from what I do know and what you have said, I still feel all the updates should've been put into one extra version. You say it's only three games, but that's a new $50+ game each time. I feel sorry for any parents that had to buy their kids updates each time one came out .

[Ninja Spirit]

TM: Kabuki Invades Africa

[CrackTiger]

TM: Kabuki Invades Africa

Well, we know he conquered all the women across Eurasia on the way to London and there's already a North American Tengai Makyou...

[ParanoiaDragon]

If Yoshi's Island DS is a sequel, then it's the laziest, shittiest sequel of all time.  Everything looks exactly the same right down to the level layouts.

Yeah, it's pretty similar from what I can tell, but, I don't mind.  But, I do hope that if they do another, it won't be so much more of the same.