Golden Axe CD

nat · 01/18/2008, 02:30 PM

So I got the CD port yesterday.

I just thought I'd post a few comments on one of the most often-panned arcade ports on the system (alongside Altered Beast) seeing as how I played through a good majority of the game on my first try. Unlike Altered Beast, which IMHO is unjustly criticized because of it's difficulty, GA doesn't fare so well.

First, the good. The music is great. Awesome. I love it. I challenge anyone to find any shortcomings in this category. The game also has cinemas and intros unique to this port. They remind me quite a bit in style of the Valis III cinemas, and it's no small wonder seeing as how they were done by the same group. They are of good quality, I don't know, maybe even better than the Valis III cinemas. The title screen. Looks really nice, pretty much like the Genesis version. Yeah I know it's a weird thing to comment on, but I'm really grapsing at anything here. Up until this point you think the game is gonna be awesome. You've seen the intro cinema, you've seen the title screen, heard the music... What could possibly be so bad?

Well, let's get into it. Let's start with the in-game graphics. I'd heard rumors the graphics in this game looked like a Master System game. Well that's an exaggeration as they are too good to be found on the SMS. Too many colors, that kind of thing. But just barely. Believe it or not the graphics in this game have fewer colors than the Genesis port which, as runinruder put it, is inexcusable. The detail level is atrocious. The backgrounds are so bland it's not even funny. Everything is in shades of brown or tan, EVERYTHING. Except the green leaves on the trees. Sprites are small and pretty ugly for the most part. Imagine the nicely detailed and superbly shaded sprites in Keith Courage. Now, imagine the opposite of that and that's what you will find in Golden Axe. Better yet, just imagine the sprites found in the sidescrolling-view (the "distant perspective") parts of Genpei Toumaden and run with that idea. While the graphics are pretty bad, the graphics in GT are worse overall, so it's not the worst that I've seen. I might even be able to give the game a pass in this regard if the scrolling and animation didn't blow donkey nuts. This game scrolls more roughly than any other game I've ever played. They would have been better off going the Energy route and just changing the scene when you reached the edge of the screen. What the fuck happened here? The animation is also horrendous- when you jump the animation of your character flying through the air must have a framerate of about 2 FPS.

For some reason I was expecting the gameplay to suck, which it actually didn't for the most part. All negatives aside, the game is very playable. Much more so than something like Genpei. It's not "perfect" and probably not as good as the Genesis port but once you get past the jittery scrolling and framerate from Hell you get into the groove. I played through quite a bit of the game before I got a Game Over at which point I got hungry so I turned it off and made dinner. I do, however, plan to go back today and play it some more. It's probably worse than any other console port, although I've only played the Genesis one so I can't really make that statement. If a SMS port exists, this version might actually be better. If you're a fan of classic SEGA arcade games however, then GA CD is a must-buy for the cinemas and music alone. Just be prepared for the shockingly bad graphics and scrolling. Although if you're like me, you'll probably find a small piece of yourself become attached to it.

When all is said and done though, I wish NEC Avenue had handled the reprogramming of this one.

Kitsunexus · 01/18/2008, 02:35 PM

There is a Golden Axe for SMS, but it's not what you think:

GUTS · 01/18/2008, 02:39 PM

I was always disappointed with Golden Axe on Genesis because of how much smaller everything was (I used to play the arcade game like a mother fucker when I was a kid), while Altered Beast seemed a lot closer to the arcade version, retaining the huge sprites. I almost bought the PCE version more than once, thank God I never did.

Not to get off subject, but Nat did you ever play Golden Axe III? That one gets terrible reviews from retards all the time, but I loved it and thought it was miles ahead of the first two (Genesis versions, not arcade).

Tablet · 01/18/2008, 03:08 PM

Quote from: Kitsunexus on 01/18/2008, 02:35 PMThere is a Golden Axe for SMS, but it's not what you think:

That is Golden Axe Warrior.

This is the SMS port, i find it too choppy to actually play but hey it was the SMS

td741 · 01/18/2008, 03:12 PM

It's been a while since I played the SMS port (of Golden Axe, not Golden Axe Warrior) but from what I remember:
-single player
-can only play the male warrior. (Instead of selecting your character, you select the magic you can use.)
-controls were decent (many SMS games are plagued with lousy controls)
-graphics were very good for the SMS (magic worked okay, backgrounds were pixelly but decent, animation was fine but some moves might be missing)
-sound was relatively okay for an SMS game (music was a good approximation, no yelling.)

Aside from the Arcade, I think the VGA PC (DOS) version of Golden Axe ended up being best. 2 Player, In tact Graphics, music was okay (with sound card), yelling was done via the PC Speaker but was intact. I was disappointed by Amiga Version (hampered mostly by single-fire-button)

NecroPhile · 01/18/2008, 03:27 PM

PCE Golden Axe is single player as well, isn't it? That alone is enough to turn me off.

PCEngineHell · 01/18/2008, 04:25 PM

Yea I had the Master System version. If you ignore the fact the other 2 characters are missing its not a big deal,as you get a Conan style ending on the game which is worth it.It does move a little choppy,but visually still looks closer to the arcade then the Pc Engine one. The Pc-Engine one was obviously created from the ground up,everything looks reworked. They seem to be missing trow on Pc-Engine too,or at least I have not managed to trow anyone. I like all 3 ports though,each has something different to offer.

Kitsunexus · 01/18/2008, 04:39 PM

Quote from: GUTS on 01/18/2008, 02:39 PMNot to get off subject, but Nat did you ever play Golden Axe III? That one gets terrible reviews from retards all the time, but I loved it and thought it was miles ahead of the first two (Genesis versions, not arcade).

I had that game before my Sega Classics Collection disc went bad. LOVED THAT GAME.

nat · 01/18/2008, 04:40 PM

Quote from: GUTS on 01/18/2008, 02:39 PMNot to get off subject, but Nat did you ever play Golden Axe III? That one gets terrible reviews from retards all the time, but I loved it and thought it was miles ahead of the first two (Genesis versions, not arcade).

No I avoided it because everyone hated on it all the time.

I think it's available on the VC. If it is I'll download it and give it a try.

OldRover · 01/18/2008, 04:57 PM

You know, nat...you posted this in the wrong forum.

nat · 01/18/2008, 05:04 PM

Quote from: OldRover on 01/18/2008, 04:57 PMYou know, nat...you posted this in the wrong forum.

Actually that was intentional.

It's part of my ongoing campaign that the two forums are redundant and need to be merged.

guyjin · 01/18/2008, 05:12 PM

Golden Axe 3 has some interesting features, but it's nowhere near as good as the original. an average beat-em-up.

gekioh · 01/18/2008, 05:26 PM

I agree w/ Guts about Golden Axe III. I think its killer. Love it to death, my personal favorite GA.

WoodyXP · 01/18/2008, 07:26 PM

Golden Axe CD could have kicked some major ass. I wonder if SEGA paid the developers to
sabotage the game... it's that horrible, IMO.

And yeah.. Golden Axe III kicks ass.

CrackTiger · 01/18/2008, 07:28 PM

Golden Axe PCE will always be one of my favorite PCE titles, since it was the first CD game I saw and of the first I owned. The cinemas and other non-gameplay elements made me appreciate all versions of Golden Axe all the more.

Its ironic that its the textbook example of how to do a CD version of a classic arcade game right... except for the core game itself. Too many CD games are basically a cart/card port with CD music added.

Some of the background art/graphics is alright on its own(its shaded better than many other PCE games), but like Strider ACD the various flaws combine to tarnish the overall experience. The actual gameplay isn't too far off of the shallow original.

Since its cheap, its worth buying even just to watch the cinemas using the debug trick, let alone for the cool soundtrack.

nat · 01/18/2008, 07:43 PM

Quote from: guest on 01/18/2008, 07:28 PMThe actual gameplay isn't too far off of the shallow original.

That's right, I found the gameplay mostly intact.

While I don't hold the same nostalgic feelings for it like you do, it sounds like you have similar feelings about it overall.

Joe Redifer · 01/18/2008, 08:06 PM

I wonder if it is against some law to have a two-player version of Golden Axe on CD. When they took the two player Genesis version and put it on the Sega Classics disc, they purposely made it single player only, probably to obey the laws at the time. Damn Republocrats!

ParanoiaDragon · 01/18/2008, 08:58 PM

The problem is, that this game was done by Renovation(not Laser Soft, who were resposible for the Turbo CD version of Valis 3, Reno did the Gen Valis 3). More often then not, atleast on the Turbo, Renovation games tend to suck. Exile is probably their best game, as it's pretty damn clean, & nice to look at(note, that Exile 2 was by Riot). Final Zone 2 was also done by Reno, & it's ok, nothing spectacular. There are others that aren't even worth mentioning, like Death Bringer.

Keranu · 01/18/2008, 10:54 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 01/18/2008, 08:06 PMI wonder if it is against some law to have a two-player version of Golden Axe on CD. When they took the two player Genesis version and put it on the Sega Classics disc, they purposely made it single player only, probably to obey the laws at the time. Damn Republocrats!

Whoa, what the hell? I never realized that, what's the point?

WoodyXP · 01/19/2008, 12:38 AM

Quote from: Keranu on 01/18/2008, 10:54 PM
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 01/18/2008, 08:06 PMI wonder if it is against some law to have a two-player version of Golden Axe on CD. When they took the two player Genesis version and put it on the Sega Classics disc, they purposely made it single player only, probably to obey the laws at the time. Damn Republocrats!
Whoa, what the hell? I never realized that, what's the point?

My only guess is they cut out the second player to make room for ghey-ass, CD-Quality SFX. "OUCH!!"

nat · 01/19/2008, 12:40 AM

I actually don't have a problem with no 2 player option in the Turbo version. 95% of the time I play games I play by myself, the other 5% of the time is with my wife and she wouldn't be into something like Golden Axe. It's usually Bubble Bobble, Mario Party, Bomberman, that sort of thing.

Kitsunexus · 01/19/2008, 12:43 AM

Multiplayer was removed because due to system limitations at the time, the system could only hold one player. The second player would have to stream directly from disc, and considering 90's console CD access times, it would be unplayable and thus was scrapped.

This of course is 100% bullshit but sounds more logical than anything anyone else has put out so far.

Joe Redifer · 01/19/2008, 12:54 AM

Quote from: WoodyXPMy only guess is they cut out the second player to make room for ghey-ass, CD-Quality SFX. "OUCH!!"

Bad guess.

WoodyXP · 01/19/2008, 01:18 AM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 01/19/2008, 12:54 AMBad guess.

Let's hear yours.

PCEngineHell · 01/19/2008, 01:37 AM

Quote from: WoodyXP on 01/19/2008, 01:18 AM
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 01/19/2008, 12:54 AMBad guess.
Let's hear yours.

My only initial guess is they were not sure how to manage the systems ram well.This disc is after all one of the first.

WoodyXP · 01/19/2008, 02:10 AM

Quote from: PCEngineHell on 01/19/2008, 01:37 AMMy only initial guess is they were not sure how to manage the systems ram well.This disc is after all one of the first.

I want to hear what Mr. Redifer has to say, unless you're the same person of course. So, Joe Redifer.. bring your bitch
ass out here and let's hear it.

PCEngineHell · 01/19/2008, 02:29 AM

Surely more then Joe are allowed to guess though ?

I'm sure Joe's will be the most awesome though,it usually is.

WoodyXP · 01/19/2008, 02:45 AM

Quote from: PCEngineHell on 01/19/2008, 02:29 AMSurely more then Joe are allowed to guess though ?

Of course, your guess was appreciated.

Quote from: PCEngineHell on 01/19/2008, 02:29 AMI'm sure Joe's will be the most awesome though,it usually is.

I hope so... I'm rolling out the red carpet and handing an invitation to this little cunt. It better be good.

Joe Redifer · 01/19/2008, 04:03 AM

It was a bad guess to assume that having two players takes up more memory on the disc. The only other things that were changed about the game were the redbook music (which would actually free up memory since chip music wouldn't need to be loaded into RAM) and some better sound effects that were taken from the arcade. Streets of Rage (also on the same disc) had this same treatment with the voices but remained two players. So I really don't think the sound had anything at all to do with it.

Michael's guess is a little bit better (about not knowing how to mess with the RAM properly, etc)... but then again Streets of Rage has two players intact. I don't think it was a technical issue. Either someone fucked up when porting over the game to the CD (they had to slice it up for the RAM banks) and forgot to set it right or they turned it off due to the "No two player Golden Axe on a CD" law.

Kitsunexus · 01/19/2008, 04:09 AM

I think it's because Golden Axe fucking sucks, and they KNEW it fucking sucks, so they made the obvious choice of doing a half-ass port and still making enough for drinks and pizza.

And in the end, that's what counts right?

Rastan > Golden Axe.

Joe Redifer · 01/19/2008, 04:50 AM

rASStan 1 is pretty good. I prefer the SMS version over the arcade as far as actual gameplay is concerned. The arcade is a bitch. rASStan 2 sucks doggy balls.

Kitsunexus · 01/19/2008, 04:52 AM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 01/19/2008, 04:50 AMrASStan 2 sucks doggy balls.

It has great music though.

Joe Redifer · 01/19/2008, 05:08 AM

Yeah it has some nice shit goin' on wit da audio and all that.

Kitsunexus · 01/19/2008, 05:12 AM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 01/19/2008, 04:50 AMrASStan 1 is pretty good. I prefer the SMS version over the arcade as far as actual gameplay is concerned. The arcade is a bitch.

The C64 version is unfinishable due to a glitch in one level with a pit you can't cross.

I also found this same kind of glitch in Rastan II arcade...

WoodyXP · 01/19/2008, 06:09 AM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 01/19/2008, 04:03 AMIt was a bad guess to assume that having two players takes up more memory on the disc.

Now now.. you're a not mind reader my friend. I didn't assume that. But yeah.. you're pretty much on point, IMO. You notice
that the system doesn't access the CD when the SFX play.. so you know those files are getting stored somewhere in memory. Poor
memory management more than likely lead to the game not having a second player.

Then there's the theory that the folks who put this CD together didn't have access to the final build of Golden Axe... blah blah blah...yeah..
it's hard to tell what the fuck really happened. But it's all good, really.. since nobody wants to play Golden Axe with me anyway... ahahahah..

OldRover · 01/19/2008, 09:44 AM

The voice samples are probably stored in the ADPCM buffer.

nat · 01/19/2008, 10:37 AM

Rastan, in any incarnation, sucks. A lot. I will not have Rastan bullshit polluting my GA thread.

_Paul · 01/19/2008, 12:49 PM

Rastan was one of my fave arcade games (despite how bloody hard it was) and the SMS version is fantastic. Don't be dissin' Rastan.

nat · 01/19/2008, 01:15 PM

In all fairness, I've never played the SMS version, so I'll give you a pass.

CrackTiger · 01/19/2008, 01:32 PM

Quote from: Kitsunexus on 01/19/2008, 04:52 AM
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 01/19/2008, 04:50 AMrASStan 2 sucks doggy balls.
It has great music though.

Yeah, those tunes are thumpin'.

nat · 01/19/2008, 04:22 PM

I got Golden Axe III today on the VC. GUTS is right, it's pretty good!

I got to the Gate of Fate then I got a Game Over. I must have been close to the end, though. Or maybe not. Who knows.

I really like the music in GA III. It's not abrasive like a lot of Genesis sound.

Joe Redifer · 01/19/2008, 07:15 PM

Golden Axe 3's music is pretty quiet and mellow, but it has some really well constructed melodies in there. I have an arrangement of one of the tunes on my hard drive somewhere. It is great!

CrackTiger · 01/19/2008, 08:45 PM

Quote from: nat on 01/19/2008, 04:22 PMI got Golden Axe III today on the VC. GUTS is right, it's pretty good!

I got to the Gate of Fate then I got a Game Over. I must have been close to the end, though. Or maybe not. Who knows.

I really like the music in GA III. It's not abrasive like a lot of Genesis sound.

I'm no beat 'em up/hack 'n slash expert, but I've always felt that most games in the genres are centered around decent, ranging from okay to good and that there aren't too many unbelievably good or terrible titles.

Which is why I've wondered over the years how Golden Axe III MD could really be so bad, since it seems easier to make an average beat em up/hack n slasher than it is to make a real hunk of garbage.

Ceti Alpha · 01/19/2008, 08:47 PM

QuoteGolden Axe 3's music is pretty quiet and mellow, but it has some really well constructed melodies in there. I have an arrangement of one of the tunes on my hard drive somewhere. It is great!

Agreed. If you find that arrangement send it over.

SNKNostalgia · 01/19/2008, 10:57 PM

I guess a lot of people didn't like it so much because it is very different than the first two GA games. It does have a different BG style with a lot of moving parallax. It plays really different as well from the moves, control etc.... Also, GA3 never made it to the US other than the SEGA Channel. I played it on the Genesis Collection for PS2 and enjoyed it somewhat, but not nearly as much as GA 1 and 2. I still like to play my 4-in-1 Sega CD Classics Collection with SOR 1, GA 1, Columns, and Revenge of Shinobi.

CrackTiger · 01/19/2008, 11:22 PM

Quote from: SNKNostalgia on 01/19/2008, 10:57 PMI guess a lot of people didn't like it so much because it is very different than the first two GA games. It does have a different BG style with a lot of moving parallax. It plays really different as well from the moves, control etc.... Also, GA3 never made it to the US other than the SEGA Channel. I played it on the Genesis Collection for PS2 and enjoyed it somewhat, but not nearly as much as GA 1 and 2. I still like to play my 4-in-1 Sega CD Classics Collection with SOR 1, GA 1, Columns, and Revenge of Shinobi.

I didn't realize that it was on the Sega Genesis Collection. I'm going to have to try it out now.

Ceti Alpha · 01/19/2008, 11:28 PM

QuoteRastan, in any incarnation, sucks. A lot. I will not have Rastan bullshit polluting my GA thread.

LMFAO!!

Joe Redifer · 01/20/2008, 12:58 AM

Here is the Golden Axe 3 tune. I think it is an OverClocked ReMix arrangement, but I don't know who did it. Gets a bit lame with the synth-sax after about halfway through, but gets better again.

Download - 3.36MB

Ceti Alpha · 01/20/2008, 11:56 AM

QuoteGets a bit lame with the synth-sax after about halfway through

haha. Gotta love the cheesy midi synth sax.

spenoza · 01/20/2008, 02:34 PM

Golden Axe 3 is a little cheap. The timing on the jump attack is a little odd but the enemies get it right every time. Fun game, but meaner than the earlier ones.