Golden Axe CD

[nat]

I got the jump attack down pretty good yesterday.

[spenoza]

I think it's just that the female character isn't as good as in previous games.

[Kitsunexus]

I think it's just that the female character isn't as good as in previous games.

She has actual physics modelling (after your mom).

[spenoza]

I'm not sure I want my mom to be that hot (or pixellated).

[OldTurboBastard]

Multiplayer was removed because due to system limitations at the time, the system could only hold one player. The second player would have to stream directly from disc, and considering 90's console CD access times, it would be unplayable and thus was scrapped.

This of course is 100% bullshit but sounds more logical than anything anyone else has put out so far.

Its probably as simple as the console could'nt handle the extra sprites.

[spenoza]

It couldn't handle them loading them from CD where it could loading them from cartridge? Nope, that ain't it. Try again. I think it was just laziness on the part of the programmers, either that or limitations in how much game data they could store in system RAM at any given time.

[OldTurboBastard]

It couldn't handle them loading them from CD where it could loading them from cartridge? Nope, that ain't it. Try again. I think it was just laziness on the part of the programmers, either that or limitations in how much game data they could store in system RAM at any given time.

Actually, What I'm refering to is the maximum of 64 on-screen sprites that the turbo GPU can handle simultaneously. I don't think the transfer of data from media to RAM has much to do with it - the GPU could'nt handle the sprites regardless of whether the data for them could be stored in RAM.  The turbo could handle larger sprites, but not as many as the genesis (which I believe could handle 80 smaller sprites).  Hence the two player mode on the Genesis port. Could it be that the hardware just could'nt handle it on our beloved turbo??? GASP!!!

Programmers get "lazy" when hardware limitations make things difficult to pull off..... If i have to come up with some ingenious algorithm every time I want to get around the hardware limits i am gonna be less likely to do it. Having said that i've seen the golden axe port and i'm sure a better job could have been done on the PC engine port. Two Players??? I'm sure it could have been done by sacrificing other in game sprites or using some other compromising method.

[Joe Redifer]

Hence the two player mode on the Genesis port.

But not the Sega CD version of the same game, which is what we're trying to figure out.

[nat]

It couldn't handle them loading them from CD where it could loading them from cartridge? Nope, that ain't it. Try again. I think it was just laziness on the part of the programmers, either that or limitations in how much game data they could store in system RAM at any given time.

Actually, What I'm refering to is the maximum of 64 on-screen sprites that the turbo GPU can handle simultaneously. I don't think the transfer of data from media to RAM has much to do with it - the GPU could'nt handle the sprites regardless of whether the data for them could be stored in RAM.  The turbo could handle larger sprites, but not as many as the genesis (which I believe could handle 80 smaller sprites).  Hence the two player mode on the Genesis port. Could it be that the hardware just could'nt handle it on our beloved turbo??? GASP!!!

Programmers get "lazy" when hardware limitations make things difficult to pull off..... If i have to come up with some ingenious algorithm every time I want to get around the hardware limits i am gonna be less likely to do it. Having said that i've seen the golden axe port and i'm sure a better job could have been done on the PC engine port. Two Players??? I'm sure it could have been done by sacrificing other in game sprites or using some other compromising method.

You're nuts. I remember this shit from the Genesis vs. Turbo thread a few months back. You have some whacky preconceptions about the Turbo hardware.

Golden Axe barely has any sprites on screen at all at any given time. Not even close to the limit. The Turbo is fully competent to handle a few sprites in a two-player version of Golden Axe with plenty to spare. One more wouldn't make an ounce of difference. If you think this is due to some inherent hardware limitation, you're living in la-la land.

I think the "laziness" in the case of the Turbo version is just that-- pure laziness. When you see how lazy they were with the in-game graphics, it's no small wonder.

It's a much bigger mystery why the SEGA CD version of the game lacks the two-player mode, considering a 2 player version of the game had already been created for the system. Laziness was obviously not the issue-- it would take far more work to remove the 2 player functionality than to just leave it in.

[CrackTiger]

You're nuts. I remember this shit from the Genesis vs. Turbo thread a few months back. You have some whacky preconceptions about the Turbo hardware.

Golden Axe barely has any sprites on screen at all at any given time. Not even close to the limit. The Turbo is fully competent to handle a few sprites in a two-player version of Golden Axe with plenty to spare. One more wouldn't make an ounce of difference. If you think this is due to some inherent hardware limitation, you're living in la-la land.

Although anyone familiar with a few Turbo/PCE games should know that Golden Axe would not be a challenge sprite-wise, a good example would be Riot Zone, another 2 player beat 'em up.

[Joe Redifer]

It's the law against two-player Golden Axe games on CD, I'm tellin' ya!  But no one believes me.   

[CrackTiger]

It's the law against two-player Golden Axe games on CD, I'm tellin' ya!  But no one believes me.   

What about Golden Axe The Duel?

[Joe Redifer]

That's Golden Axe The Duel, not Golden Axe!!!!!!

[ParanoiaDragon]

You're nuts. I remember this shit from the Genesis vs. Turbo thread a few months back. You have some whacky preconceptions about the Turbo hardware.

Golden Axe barely has any sprites on screen at all at any given time. Not even close to the limit. The Turbo is fully competent to handle a few sprites in a two-player version of Golden Axe with plenty to spare. One more wouldn't make an ounce of difference. If you think this is due to some inherent hardware limitation, you're living in la-la land.

Although anyone familiar with a few Turbo/PCE games should know that Golden Axe would not be a challenge sprite-wise, a good example would be Riot Zone, another 2 player beat 'em up.

Uh, are you being serious, or are you joking   Riot Zone is 1 player.  Double Dragon 2 is 2 player however, as is, I believe, Galaxy Detective Gayvan...I think.  And River City Ransom!

Oh, might I add, I have never been able to play Golden Axe: The Duel.  No copy works in my Saturn, I've tried multiple copies

[Kitsunexus]

Once again:

R0X0RStan > Golden Ass


 

[OldRover]

It couldn't handle them loading them from CD where it could loading them from cartridge? Nope, that ain't it. Try again. I think it was just laziness on the part of the programmers, either that or limitations in how much game data they could store in system RAM at any given time.

While it might be laziness, it would certainly not be unfeasible to say that it couldn't be done on the CDROM due to lack of memory. There's not as much memory available when you use a CDROM, since data has to be loaded into RAM. With ROM, all the memory of the ROM is available at once, so if you have an 8MB ROM, you can access it all at any given time. The same can't be said for a CDROM, since you only have a limited amount of RAM available (256KB on the Duo, 768KB on the Sega CD).

Riot Zone could have been made two-player with ease. I have no idea why they decided to kill off one of Riot City's best features. I mean damn, the game is pretty lame anyways, but they could have at least made it fun. Riot Zone is pretty stale without two player support.

[CrackTiger]

Uh, are you being serious, or are you joking   Riot Zone is 1 player.  Double Dragon 2 is 2 player however, as is, I believe, Galaxy Detective Gayvan...I think.  And River City Ransom!

Oh, might I add, I have never been able to play Golden Axe: The Duel.  No copy works in my Saturn, I've tried multiple copies

I've never played Riot Zone.

[OldTurboBastard]

You're nuts. I remember this shit from the Genesis vs. Turbo thread a few months back. You have some whacky preconceptions about the Turbo hardware.

Golden Axe barely has any sprites on screen at all at any given time. Not even close to the limit. The Turbo is fully competent to handle a few sprites in a two-player version of Golden Axe with plenty to spare. One more wouldn't make an ounce of difference. If you think this is due to some inherent hardware limitation, you're living in la-la land.

I think the "laziness" in the case of the Turbo version is just that-- pure laziness. When you see how lazy they were with the in-game graphics, it's no small wonder.

It's a much bigger mystery why the SEGA CD version of the game lacks the two-player mode, considering a 2 player version of the game had already been created for the system. Laziness was obviously not the issue-- it would take far more work to remove the 2 player functionality than to just leave it in.

OK - so what are those whacky preconcieved notions? not sure I said anything inaccurate. As for the number of sprites-  I may be wrong here but I believe a complex character model will take more than just a few sprites - it's not just two sprites for two characters.

[ccovell]

I just checked a couple of screenshots from Golden Axe arcade, and the player characters' sizes range around 32x50 to 50x60...  which quite literally is only 2 sprites on the Turbo!   

[OldTurboBastard]

I just checked a couple of screenshots from Golden Axe arcade, and the player characters' sizes range around 32x50 to 50x60...  which quite literally is only 2 sprites on the Turbo!   

well in that case, maybe they WERE just lazy, hell i don't know.

lazy bastards were probably browsing gaming fan sites when they should have been working hard on the job 

[Ceti Alpha]

lazy bastards were probably browsing gaming fan sites when they should have been working hard on the job  Whistle

hehe. I won't tell if you don't. 

[Keith Courage]

Just played through this for the first time. The playable character sprites look like crap. What's weird is when the main character performs a dash run attack it looks good and to me the enemies look good. Why not put the time into making the payable characters not look like a cardboard cutout? Oh, also the slow down gets pretty annoying at times.

I did like the music but that was about it. If the sprites had been done better the game would definitely be good enough to play through. I can live with the backgrounds not being so hot considering they were never much to look at in the first place.

[soop]

Nah, the game is far more broken that crappy sprites.

The main problem I saw was that the hit detection only targets one enemy at once.  In the original, If you were attacking one enemy and a second walked into your sword, he'd get nailed.  Now however, they can just walk through your sword and start attacking. That's the most game breaking aspect in my eyes, but there are of course, many.

[esteban]

NOTE TO SELF: I gotta re-read this thread when I get a chance.

[sonikthehedgehog]

Thanks for the review. I've been eying it for a while since it's relatively cheap but I think I'll just pass on it.

[CGQuarterly]

Golden Axe for the Genesis is one of my all-time favorites, so the PCE version was definitely not enjoyable for me.  I can't say it was a disappointment because I wasn't expecting much.  At least the music is cool...

Chris