Anybody using a stepdown converter 120/100v and a surge protector?

[dq333]

Hello Folks,

I am using a PC Engine here in the States and have a step-down converter from 120v to 100v.  I've check this forum/net and there is hardly anything on the matter of adding surge protection.  Anybody actually using a step-down together with a surge protector in the States?  I'm worried about getting a power surge....

[NecroPhile]

Welcome aboard!

No troubles here and mine's plugged into a run o' the mill strip surge protector (no step-down).  The difference between US and Japan power isn't enough to necessitate a step-down converter.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Hello Folks,

I am using a PC Engine here in the States and have a step-down converter from 120v to 100v.  I've check this forum/net and there is hardly anything on the matter of adding surge protection.  Anybody actually using a step-down together with a surge protector in the States?  I'm worried about getting a power surge.... 

you don't need to step down at all.  I've got like 9 things plugged into 2 power strips daisy chained together, and it's been this way for like 3 years.  You're fine dude.

[dq333]

You guys are fast, thanks for the responses.  Yeah I know the difference is small..... but I'm worried   I'm also running a Japanese Neo Geo AES and Japanese Sega Saturn, but I did notice the SS getting a little hot without the step-down...  I'm surprised that I haven't found much info on using step-downs and surge protectors together besides one website that states not to....  ONE.  The stepdown IS fuse protected but I doubt it will protect as much as a surge protector.

[SignOfZeta]

Well made systems don't care. Many, such as the DC, and I *think* the Saturn actually have the same power supply anyway so a step down is irrelevant. The power in most homes varies more than the theoretical %10 difference between US and JP houses. I've been using my white Saturn for 12 years or so with zero issue.

As for surge protectors...typically this isn't worth it with any system that has an external power supply since the lighting storm or whatever will only fry the power supply, if that. So...use an American PS for PCEs in America and you'll be fine.

[Arkhan Asylum]

It's seriously not worth the effort. 

You're better off using a surge protector and no step down at all.  The step down just complicates things, and if you use a janky step down, I could see that causing issues.   I watched a friend torch a european computer with a shitty step up convertor.

Though, I shove my Japanese stuff straight into wall outlets sometimes. 

[dq333]

I've been using both the step-down and surge protector without any problems so far.  Here's the converter:

http://www.voltagetransformers.com/products/Power-Bright-100W-Step-up-%26-down-Japan-Transformer.html

It seems pretty well built.  I would be hesistant if I were using European appliances but I don't feel worried with Japanese stuff.  My SS definitely felt cooler though after playing for three hours.  Man I don't know what to play sometimes I have too many games (mainly shoot 'em ups).

[Arkhan Asylum]

I have one of those to Step Up for European crap

It worked great when I had it, but it was European crap, so it got boring fast.

you really shouldn't have any problems with that thing.

Some people buy those janky wall-wart step up/down convertors.  Those are a bad idea.  They over heat and pop.  They smell horrible upon doing so.  It's like burnt plastic/metal/bacon.

[VestCunt]

I've been using both the step-down and surge protector without any problems so far.  Here's the converter:
http://www.voltagetransformers.com/products/Power-Bright-100W-Step-up-%26-down-Japan-Transformer.html

I use one of these for my Supergrafx & SCD.  I don't know if I actually need it, but it's always worked well.

[RegalSin]

Nope just the same extension cord to my television. Including those early 1970's game systems. They all work, with no problems. Just a hint, Japan is only as real as the comic books we read.

Also lighting has struck the place I lived in, many times, and their is a fuse box obviously. What you should worry about if somebody comes and live with you who likes to play with the power box, and uses a blow-drying
every often. I have stuff from 1950-70 plugged in my walls, no problems.

[thesteve]

WTF was that.....LOL

equipment running (switching) power supply's wont care at all if you use a slightly higher voltage (case in point my PCFX)
if the power-supply is old-school (transformer) things will run warmer but for most things 10% wont be an issue

[soop]

As Zeta says, it doesn't really matter with an external PSU.  My friend was telling me a story about an imported DC (in England) being plugged in without a stepdown and white smoke pouring out.  I didn't get it until he pointed out the DC has an internal PSU.

Over here, I just use a MD PSU or a multi voltage multi connector PSU, and it's fine.

I did blow a Core Grafx PSU though when I plugged it into a socket converter... *pop*

[thesteve]

its not about internal vs external.
in Europe your pushing twice the voltage.
running JP equipment in the us is only 10%-15% high and well within design tolerance for most supply's.

[soop]

its not about internal vs external.
in Europe your pushing twice the voltage.
running JP equipment in the us is only 10%-15% high and well within design tolerance for most supply's.

It is, because if you blow an internal PSU, it's going to be a lot more difficult and expensive to replace.  There's no point in getting a surge protector to protect a $5 power supply

[thesteve]

in that your right, but in the PCE the +10% passes right through to the system, making the risked parts the 7805's and the motor drive chips in the cd section.
newer supplys (switching supplys) that are typically internal dont pass the over voltage on to the board, the system is better protected.

[kazekirifx]

I bought one for my X68k, since the power supplies on that system are known to fail, and mine still has the original unmodded power supply.

For PCE and all other systems, I've never bothered. I think unplugging the systems when not in use is precaution enough.

[thesteve]

thats true of most things

[dq333]

After using the step-down for a couple of months now, I am pretty happy.  PCE is definitely running cooler as is my Saturn.

[TheClash603]

I have fried two Twin Famicoms, so apprently there is one system that goes against the "you dont need to use it" rule.

[BlueBMW]

I bought one for my X68k, since the power supplies on that system are known to fail, and mine still has the original unmodded power supply.

For PCE and all other systems, I've never bothered. I think unplugging the systems when not in use is precaution enough.

Let me know which X68k you have and I can probably send you a cap kit for the power supply if you need it.  Definitely refurb that PSU soon!

Also good to know there are more x68k owners out there!

[kazekirifx]

Let me know which X68k you have and I can probably send you a cap kit for the power supply if you need it.  Definitely refurb that PSU soon!
Also good to know there are more x68k owners out there!

ACE. No one ever has the ACE one on Yahoo auctions, so...
I'd really just as soon keep using the original until it breaks, then worry about it.
Not sure why people are all in such a rush to change theirs. Does the whole system die along with the power supply?

[BlueBMW]

No but if you wait until it fails completely then youll end up having to replace a lot more components in your power supply than just the caps.  If you can recap / clean off the leaked fluid before it pops then you can avoid having to replace diodes etc.

Or wait til it pops and shoehorn an ITX supply in there.  As long as you dont use an internal hard drive it fits nicely. I can give you the model number of the power supply I installed in an expert HD unit.

[kazekirifx]

No but if you wait until it fails completely then youll end up having to replace a lot more components in your power supply than just the caps.  If you can recap / clean off the leaked fluid before it pops then you can avoid having to replace diodes etc.

Or wait til it pops and shoehorn an ITX supply in there.  As long as you dont use an internal hard drive it fits nicely. I can give you the model number of the power supply I installed in an expert HD unit.

Recapping and cleaning off the leaked fluid sounds like a good option. Is it possible to get the correct caps for the ACE?

[thesteve]

its possible to replace old caps with better caps, or OE Spec

[kazekirifx]

its possible to replace old caps with better caps, or OE Spec

Yeah. By 'correct' I meant ones that will work with the ACE. Don't have to be the same as the original.

[BlueBMW]

I believe the ACE uses the same "tetris block" power supply as the Expert does.  Here's a chart I made showing the values / locations of the caps:

/x68kPSU.jpg

Alternately, let it fail and replace later with an ITX unit like this:

/PSU2.jpg


Thats an Apevia ITX-AP250W

More details on the swap can be found on gamesx.com and here's the thread detailing my replacement: http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=4785.0

[nat]

I've never even considered using a stepdown here in the US to run JP stuff.

The chances of your stepdown malfunctioning and damaging your system/PSU are far greater than the chances of the system being damaged when plugged right into the wall without a stepdown.

It's like people that are afraid to fly in airplanes because they're afraid the plane will crash and they'll die. Fact is, the chances of dying in a car crash are exponentially higher than the chance you'd be involved in a plane crash.

The only thing you'd have to worry about being plugged straight into the wall is power surges, which would affect all your electronics, JP or not. Get a high quality surge protector and turn it off when you aren't playing and you'll be better off than you'd be with any stepdown converter.

(European members disregard everything written above.)

[kazekirifx]

Thanks for the info, BMW. I don't have the system with me now, but I'll keep this info handy.

[SignOfZeta]

After using the step-down for a couple of months now, I am pretty happy.  PCE is definitely running cooler as is my Saturn. 

Um...neither the PCE or SS should produce any detectible heat whatsoever. I've been running an JP Saturn for about 13 years without issue. I also have a Duo R (running Radio Shack PSU) and an IFU set-up with the original 22+ year old PSU. If your SS and PCE are actually getting hot...somethings is wrong. Probably your medication needs to be adjusted.

The power supply inside a JP Saturn is almost certainly identical to a US model with the only difference I know of being the usual unpolarized power cord. The PCE's power supply is external so that makes even less sense. Any excess heat would be in the PSU.

Honestly, it would be interesting to see exactly what voltage these things are putting out...

[NecroPhile]

...somethings is wrong. Probably your medication needs to be adjusted.

Ha!  Perhaps he's having hot flashes?

[esteban]

...somethings is wrong. Probably your medication needs to be adjusted.

Ha!  Perhaps he's having hot flashes?

kHahahhahahdskjfkshjskdjhf .

[thesteve]

After using the step-down for a couple of months now, I am pretty happy.  PCE is definitely running cooler as is my Saturn. 

Um...neither the PCE or SS should produce any detectible heat whatsoever. I've been running an JP Saturn for about 13 years without issue. I also have a Duo R (running Radio Shack PSU) and an IFU set-up with the original 22+ year old PSU. If your SS and PCE are actually getting hot...somethings is wrong. Probably your medication needs to be adjusted.

The power supply inside a JP Saturn is almost certainly identical to a US model with the only difference I know of being the usual unpolarized power cord. The PCE's power supply is external so that makes even less sense. Any excess heat would be in the PSU.

Honestly, it would be interesting to see exactly what voltage these things are putting out...

on the PCE the 7805 regulator would be where the added heat is generated.
I wouldnt know on the saturn

[dq333]

  Oh boy...... what more can we expect from a forum with such riffraff.  Hot flashes? Stick a rag in it. As for you Sherlock, I would suggest staying off your meds as you are clearly in a delusional world of your own for thinking your word is law.  What did you do, empirical research during those 13 years? Ahem..  If you haven't been using these systems in conjunction with a step-down then how can you even give an opinion?  I've actually got 3 years over you with my Saturn and believe otherwise.  Moreover when did I suggest that not using a converter will definitely cause issues? I use it as a precaution as it may very well prolong components. Not to wish it on you, but your SS may bite the dust tomorrow, mine might too, but taking the extra effort by using a system in optimal conditions is not illogical.

[esteban]

Oh boy...... what more can we expect from a forum with such riffraff.  Hot flashes? Stick a rag in it. As for you Sherlock, I would suggest staying off your meds as you are clearly in a delusional world of your own for thinking your word is law.  What did you do, empirical research during those 13 years? Ahem..  If you haven't been using these systems in conjunction with a step-down then how can you even give an opinion?  I've actually got 3 years over you with my Saturn and believe otherwise.  Moreover when did I suggest that not using a converter will definitely cause issues? I use it as a precaution as it may very well prolong components. Not to wish it on you, but your SS may bite the dust tomorrow, mine might too, but taking the extra effort by using a system in optimal conditions is not illogical.

Hey, let me be the first to say this: we were having some fun at your expense. Sorry

But, seriously, don't worry about it. We all love PCE/Turbo, so let's focus on that

[SamIAm]

The power supply inside a JP Saturn is almost certainly identical to a US model with the only difference I know of being the usual unpolarized power cord.

Don't hold me responsible if you blow up your system testing this, but I seem to remember reading from a knowledgeable source that the polarized power cord for the US model is not actually critical, and that the system can handle reverse-polarization just fine. I read up about it when I was trying to find a cord for my US Saturn that I brought to Japan (forgot the stinkin' thing back home). I still follow the proper polarization, but I seem to remember finding out later that that wasn't necessary.

It would be very interesting if the power supply was indeed identical.

Also, for the record, my US system runs just fine in Japan.

[dq333]

I guess that's how these forums are.  It's kind of like a brotherly thing huh?  My first topic and i'm cyber bullied  , jk.  Sorry guys if I went on a rant. This is the only forum I come to for the PCE.  I love the PCE and it's one of the only two things I would actually lick the slot on    I'll admit, I love my games way more than I should; i'm thirty years old, marr........  I feel like an open can now, damn 

[nat]

I guess that's how these forums are.  It's kind of like a brotherly thing huh?  My first topic and i'm cyber bullied 

If you think that's cyber bullying, you're in for a shock.

[SignOfZeta]

Oh boy...... what more can we expect from a forum with such riffraff.  Hot flashes? Stick a rag in it. As for you Sherlock, I would suggest staying off your meds as you are clearly in a delusional world of your own for thinking your word is law.  What did you do, empirical research during those 13 years? Ahem..  If you haven't been using these systems in conjunction with a step-down then how can you even give an opinion?  I've actually got 3 years over you with my Saturn and believe otherwise.  Moreover when did I suggest that not using a converter will definitely cause issues? I use it as a precaution as it may very well prolong components. Not to wish it on you, but your SS may bite the dust tomorrow, mine might too, but taking the extra effort by using a system in optimal conditions is not illogical.

I'm going to give you a pass here since you obviously have an underdeveloped sense of humor and I shouldn't discriminate against disabled people.

Regarding the topic at hand, a step-down transformer, and you now wanting to be scientific and analytical, you are saying that your systems run "noticeably cooler" with one. This claim brings up a few questions:

How did you measure the temperature? Did you install thermocouples or use an infrared scope? I ask because the things put out almost no detectible heat even running without a step down (as anyone here can tell you because none of us use one except people living in 220V regions) so its not like a PC or a system with a fan or anything that just gets hot to the touch. If my system is sitting there at room temperature and yours is at room temperature with a step down, how do you know which is cooler?

What power supply are you using for the PCE? Which PCE?

What voltage is your step-down actually putting out under load?

What model of step-down transformer have you been using for the past 16 years?

It would be interesting if someone compared power supplies for Saturns. I have one JP system and one US one, but they are of different generations and the power supplies are quite different. Considering how many variations of Saturn there are (probably a dozen or more) it might be difficult to learn this info without a huge stack of the things.

Regarding polarization: Yeah, you don't need to worry. In US nearly every power cord has terminals designed to preserve polarization, but most of the time its useless or impossible to actually gain anything from it. If the first thing AC sees in a device is a DC power supply with significant voltage reduction and the entire case is plastic and it has no external grounding...then there isn't any point is polarization. If this were a medium duty drill or a toaster or something, sure.

Regarding PCEs specifically, and PSUs for them: My Duo R's PS gave up the ghost before it was ever even imported. The guy before me was using a Sega CD PSU, but I didn't like it so I used the Radio Shack shack one, 273-1771. Anyone using a US power supply should know that a step-down is beyond stupid in your case. So this makes step-downs basically useless for nearly everything pre-3DO. You're better off just buying a US power supply since if you don't have one already you'll probably need one soon as they don't last forever.

Regardless of all this technical stuff, there is a metric assload of anecdotal evidence suggesting that step down transformers are not needed for JP systems in the US. I've known many people with all sorts of imported systems from Famicoms to Saturns, PCE, PS2, Gamecube, etc etc, none of these people used a step-down transformer and none showed any sign of issue. Therefore, while you *may* be protecting your system, I think these devices amount to nothing more than snake oil. If it makes you feel comfortable then also make sure you use Slick 50, ginseng, chakra crystals, and avoid gluten while you are at it because you obviously respond very well to bullshit. If you order enough crap from infomercials you and your imported game systems might just live forever!

For what its worth, NTSC-J is also slightly different from standard NTSC. NTSC-J uses a black level of 0 IRE whereas the standard NTSC uses one of 7.5. Does anyone here recalibrate their TVs for different regions of systems? Fuck no, because nobody can even see the difference. Most people are running their PCE's stretched on 16:9 LCDs which makes everything look like ass regardless of any minor tweakings like that. Similarly the caps in your black Duo are all leaking at this point no matter what voltage its been operating with for the past 20 years.

[dq333]

  hold on.  Give me a pass? You ain't nothing but a pompous bigot.  Considering that I actually work with disabled people, you are quite the twonk for saying that.  Again not wishing anything here but I'd hate to see your face if your child is born disabled or your children's children.  

Anyway as far as temperature; you ever touch something hot and something not so much? Not much to it really.

[SignOfZeta]

Seriously, your sense of humor really is broken. That was another joke. Even retarded kids know how to laugh. Loosen up.

My point is...I'll try to spell this out as simply as possible so that my future children will understand it even with the extra chromosome you so badly feel they deserve...My systems are room temperature. So if yours are "noticeably cooler" then they must have refrigeration systems hidden inside of them or something? This claim of yours makes no sense. How can they be cooler than not hot at all?

[dq333]

Tunnel vision thinking much?

[SignOfZeta]

Tunnel vision thinking much?

I'm asking you to explain your claim, if not empirically at least logically, and I refuse to be distracted by your "how dare you"s. If that's tunnel vision, then...oh well.

If you aren't going to back up your claim, then you have no grounds to be bothered by my dismissal of it.

[dq333]

That's not what I meant by saying that....... You are thinking much too hard on this temp thing from one angle....

Backup my claim?  ....   I can only give you direct observation--using my hand. For instance today, I played Adventure Island for two hours straight. The system was not even warm to the touch.  Before using the converter, my PCE felt rather hot.  I had been using the PCE for about a year without a converter and didn't care until the day I actually felt the left side after a gaming session.  Anyway, i could care less about explaining anymore, i'm pretty happy 

[SignOfZeta]

Yeah, you don't care. That's why you keep making useless posts to get the last word in.

"Not even warm to the touch" is exactly how my PCEs are and always have been. Same with the Saturn. Systems with a peak power consumption of 9 watts (only seen while the laser sled is seeking from the far end of travel to the begining, less than 4W while in HuCard mode) don't usually put out a great deal of heat.

Again, what power supply are you using?

[esteban]

Zeta, I love you, but we don't have to be this nurturing to a newcomer, do we? Save some of your tenderness for the other folks, too!

[dq333]

Lighten up Zeta.... Pointless posts? I don't care?  Now you are sounding like a spoilt youngin'  .  Good point Esteban  but I want to be like Zeta when I grow up and smoke a pipe, JK lol.

I'm using this power supply:

imgur.com/p7UvF.png

Anyway, if I can somehow prove it with a thermometer device or something I will.  My PCE and SS (Model: HST-0005L; original power, bought brand new) run a little hot without it.  Your SS really does not even run warm as you say?  That's hard to believe.  Have you touched it on the left  ....  I mean the frigging thing has a fan and all but it must run some what warm.  One question to whomever knows, could it be possible that my sockets are giving out more than they should; does electricity run the same in every home?         

[thesteve]

if thats your power supply its a 120V input supply anyway

[nat]

Oh man, that's pure gold right there.

[kazekirifx]

Um...neither the PCE or SS should produce any detectible heat whatsoever.

Wow. Electronics that run without producing any heat? That is some amazing technology. I didn't know that was even possible.

I'm using a PCE with CD-rom attachment in Japan, and it does certainly heat up noticeably after a long session of gaming... even when playing a hucard.

[SignOfZeta]

if thats your power supply its a 120V input supply anyway

Yep.

Meaning that if you are using a step down, and it's actually doing anything, then you are potentially current starving the system. This is almost certainly not happening, but you definitely don't have any use for the stepdown.

Also, Saturns don't have fans.

Ignorance is bliss, and totally forgivable, but the difference between someone who is unaware and someone who is full of shit is their ability to understand that we don't know one millionth of one percent of anything.