TurboGrafx-16 covers are rubbish

Spector · 05/14/2007, 03:40 PM

I've just seen the US cover art of Ordyne. What a dreadful cover, and vaguely racist too. The way that they've changed the hairstyles and widened the eyes to make all trace of the Orient absent is a bit tasteless. On a simpler level, it's offensive because it's utter crap.

I realise this could be in the turbografx forum, but the first paragraph might annoy the diehards. I'd like to ask the PC Engine owners - don't they agree that if they had actually released the games with the Japanese cover art, they could have sold just as well, if not better? I think it's a bit patronising to suggest that the Americans wouldn't buy anything whiffing of Nippon. I mean, there's no excuse for something like Ordyne. A bad cover is a bad cover, and widening the eyes doesn't change a bloomin' thing.

Does anyone dare disagree with me? Eh???

NecroPhile · 05/14/2007, 04:38 PM

What's racist about changing the characters to more closely resemble most of the people in the intended market? I doubt that the slight changes had any effect on sales - just as I doubt that Japanese sales would have been affected if the US cover had been used instead. Both covers are fitting for a light hearted shmup like Ordyne.

Some of the PC Engine covers are better than the TG-16 covers. Some of the TG-16 covers are better than the PC Engine covers. Most of them are good enough either way and not worth thinking about. There are a few Turbo covers that are vastly superior to their Japanese counterparts: Beyond Shadowgate, The Addams Family, Order of the Griffon, It Came From The Desert, Bonk 3 CD, John Madden Football, Camp California, and the three soft core porn discs.

termis · 05/14/2007, 05:15 PM

Quote from: Spector on 05/14/2007, 03:40 PMI've just seen the US cover art of Ordyne. What a dreadful cover, and vaguely racist too. The way that they've changed the hairstyles and widened the eyes to make all trace of the Orient absent is a bit tasteless. On a simpler level, it's offensive because it's utter crap.

I realise this could be in the turbografx forum, but the first paragraph might annoy the diehards. I'd like to ask the PC Engine owners - don't they agree that if they had actually released the games with the Japanese cover art, they could have sold just as well, if not better? I think it's a bit patronising to suggest that the Americans wouldn't buy anything whiffing of Nippon. I mean, there's no excuse for something like Ordyne. A bad cover is a bad cover, and widening the eyes doesn't change a bloomin' thing.

Does anyone dare disagree with me? Eh???

I think you're reading a bit too much into it.

First of all, there really isn't that much difference between the TG16 cover and the PC Engine cover. Certainly not enough to warrant me changing my mind about the first impression that I'd get from the game. They're neither that good.

If you wanna get nickpicky. Look deeper into the "slightly racist" thing. The Japanese cover is the one with the slanty-eyed Chinese guy with buck-teeth. If that were a Japanese character with a samurai-getup, what's the chance that the Japanese guys at Namco would've given their own countryman with slanty eyes & buck-teeth? (Not very high). If anything, I can see the execs in the US side deciding to give that slight-makeover in order to cover their own asses from allegations of mildly racist tone on the original cover.

I agree that for the most part, changes in art covers were made for the worse, but there are definitely covers that wouldn't have been as appealing to western (not just American) markets.

_Paul · 05/14/2007, 05:30 PM

I find most western covers of games in that period to be vastly inferior to the Japanese ones. I was very much into the import scene at the time of the PC Engine and was always very impressed by the Japanese covers and manual artwork, whereas domestic released just looked unimaginative, poorly executed and amateurish.

Keranu · 05/14/2007, 05:31 PM

Even though I am a biased, hardcore American cover lover, I don't think Turbo sales out here would've increased if the covers were the same as the Japanese counterparts. The reason being is that most games back then had similar cheesy artwork and still sold well, just look at Megaman's notorius bad cover

. The main thing that killed the Turbo out here was the lack of third party support because of Nintendo's wacky policy back then.

nat · 05/14/2007, 05:31 PM

Quote from: thumpin_termisFirst of all, there really isn't that much difference between the TG16 cover and the PC Engine cover.

BUSTED!!!

Seldane · 05/14/2007, 05:49 PM

No hotlinking allowed. When will people learn to not hotlink?

Anyway, I believe the Turbo Grafx must feature the worst selection of game covers for any console. At least along with the Master System.

_Paul · 05/14/2007, 05:55 PM

Quote from: Keranu on 05/14/2007, 05:31 PMI don't think Turbo sales out here would've increased if the covers were the same as the Japanese counterparts.

As the PCE wasn't released in the UK I'll talk from a Mega Drive perspective. Given the choice, I would always purchase the Japanese over the UK versions because the Japanese games were uncensored, not renamed badly and had better artwork. And I'm certainly not the only one who felt like that. So from that point of view, domestic sales would have been better if the covers were, albeit marginally

In those days, the Japanese style of art was not that widespread, I even bought some games purely because of the anime style in them (Schbibin Man being an example) and the cover art did play a part in influencing my purchases.

termis · 05/14/2007, 06:00 PM

Quote from: nat on 05/14/2007, 05:31 PM
Quote from: thumpin_termisFirst of all, there really isn't that much difference between the TG16 cover and the PC Engine cover.
BUSTED!!!

At the time I thought that was just for embedding the actual image in the post, but now that I think about it, I suppose from the other sites perspective, that doesn't really matter!

offsidewing · 05/14/2007, 06:16 PM

Quote from: guest on 05/14/2007, 04:38 PMWhat's racist about changing the characters to more closely resemble most of the people in the intended market?

Holy cow, can you imagine the blow back circa 1990 to leaving the original Ordyne cover on the US release?!?! That was a time when every mascot, trademark, and logo was getting away from anything that could possibly be misconstrued as socially insensitive to any ethnic group. Have we forgotten the Political correctness craze of the early 90's?

Geeze, maybe the negative press would have been the one good piece of marketing the Rocket Surgeons at NEC ever did.

2X4 · 05/14/2007, 06:25 PM

What you are referring to is localization. Every video game company does it. While the small grouping of folks on this forum have a broader palett for Japanese culture, you have to remember that they were trying to get every kid in the U.S. to buy games. Unfortunately, the Japanese did not see the need for a big marketing budget stateside, hence the crappy, slapdash artwork (not to mention the demise of the TurboGrafx), although in most cases I prefer them because I didn't grow up in Japan and I really don't give a crap about anime, which is what every japanese cover looks like and it all looks the same. There, I've baited the hook, but it's true!

NecroPhile · 05/14/2007, 06:28 PM

Quote from: offsidewing on 05/14/2007, 06:16 PMHoly cow, can you imagine the blow back circa 1990 to leaving the original Ordyne cover on the US release?!?! That was a time when every mascot, trademark, and logo was getting away from anything that could possibly be misconstrued as socially insensitive to any ethnic group. Have we forgotten the Political correctness craze of the early 90's?

Umm, yeah..... so how do you explain those greasy 'stache wearing plumber brothers? I don't see how it is racist for the characters to look Caucasian rather than Asian. They're just characters and no derogatory statements are made about them. Like 2x4 said - it's just localization.

Joe Redifer · 05/14/2007, 06:41 PM

Somebody post the covers. I want to see them, but I can't since thumpin_thermous pulled a "Keranu".

CrackTiger · 05/14/2007, 06:46 PM

Quote from: Spector on 05/14/2007, 03:40 PMI've just seen the US cover art of Ordyne. What a dreadful cover, and vaguely racist too. The way that they've changed the hairstyles and widened the eyes to make all trace of the Orient absent is a bit tasteless. On a simpler level, it's offensive because it's utter crap.

Sounds almost as racist as all those japanese games, manga and anime that draw all races as looking 'asian' and darker skinned people like minstrel performers who are almost always portrayed as violent thugs.

SignOfZeta · 05/14/2007, 07:49 PM

Yeah, back then marketing idiots loved to mask the Japanese aspects of games thinking that it would turn people off. Of course time has proven them to be incredibly wrong with just about anything even slightly Japanese selling like crazy nowadays, and with tons of American stuff being designed in a Japanese style ala: Teen Titans, Totally Spies, whatever.

Many people would say "that was then, this is now" or whatever but I really think it was just a bunch of xenophoboc white guys in marketing that gave us crap like that in the 90s...like, I don't know, the US cover to Street Fighter Alpha 1 because as far back as I can remember anime has been popular with American kids. My friends and I loved Battle of the Planets as kids (this was about 1979), and later Voltron, Kinnikuman, and Mysterious Cities of Gold, and kids older than me loved Speed Racer and Marine Boy, and whatever.

GUTS · 05/14/2007, 09:54 PM

The US cover is way better, who wants to play as a bucktoothed chink? Player 2 really got the shaft in the japanese version.

Spector · 05/15/2007, 02:51 AM

Quote from: guest on 05/14/2007, 06:46 PM
Quote from: Spector on 05/14/2007, 03:40 PMI've just seen the US cover art of Ordyne. What a dreadful cover, and vaguely racist too. The way that they've changed the hairstyles and widened the eyes to make all trace of the Orient absent is a bit tasteless. On a simpler level, it's offensive because it's utter crap.
Sounds almost as racist as all those japanese games, manga and anime that draw all races as looking 'asian' and darker skinned people like minstrel performers who are almost always portrayed as violent thugs.

I never saw that in anime, to be honest, but maybe I've not seen enough of it.

The point of "localization" is true I suppose, but it's just the idea of a committee in the US somewhere saying "right, get rid of the slitty eyes, because the kids won't buy it if we keep them in".

I see the westernisation of Japanese games as a sort of diluted version that can never be as good as the original. Keeping it Japanese makes it much more interesting - as long as the instructions are in English of course

offsidewing · 05/15/2007, 08:29 AM

Yeah, why even bother with the language translation then.

That way when I want to play as an effemiate hero, or butch heroine, I'll have to do it in Japanese!

You've got to localize to be successful, a la an old American Express commercial. I found my days in stand up comedy unsuccessful because no one in Tokyo got my Ringette or Hurling jokes.

Kaminari · 05/17/2007, 11:15 AM

Quote from: Spector on 05/14/2007, 03:40 PMDoes anyone dare disagree with me? Eh???

I always thought the TurboChip covers were in an artistic league of their own. Point in case.

Spector · 05/17/2007, 12:43 PM

You've got to be joking, surely! That isn't a real cover...

ccovell · 05/17/2007, 01:08 PM

Wow! I'd forgotten about that. That is definitely a mastery rivaling that of Seurat's.

_Paul · 05/17/2007, 01:14 PM

Quote from: Kaminari on 05/17/2007, 11:15 AM
Quote from: Spector on 05/14/2007, 03:40 PMDoes anyone dare disagree with me? Eh???
I always thought the TurboChip covers were in an artistic league of their own. Point in case.

Case well and truly closed.

offsidewing · 05/17/2007, 01:20 PM

The Dungeon Explorer Box Art is the crown jewel of the TG-16.

They're radioactively decaying. It must be a good game.

Anyone know the half-life of the fighter in Dungeon Explorer?

Seldane · 05/17/2007, 02:09 PM

I've always found the DE cover pretty fascinating. It doesn't really fit the title of the game though.

GUTS · 05/17/2007, 02:22 PM

Yeah DE has an awful cover, but it's an interesting awful. I like it mutch better than the usual cartoony awful stuff.

kenomac78 · 05/17/2007, 05:38 PM

i think all the early covers totally sucked. trying to use the TG font for all the titles doesnt work. and many of them had that late 80s tough syle to them. and most of them look like the were done on the same day by the same artist. i didnt like it at all. but i was able see past that. they should have gone the route of early NES games and put a mock screenshot on the box, it might have fared better. of course if anime had gone mainstream here 10 years before i did, the TG might have had a chance by bringing out some of those series's games to cash in on it.

of course stuobborn japanese people dont want to be told what is right in fron of their face, and that if people were into nintendo and ninja movies and etc then we must have some fondness for japan, and would like to welcome it more. hence why anime finally started to creep onto american tv without disguising it as something else only after a lage number of trurly japanese styled games hit the saturn and ps1 and it slowly went off from there.

if only they had ditched the water color art and just shown cut scenes from Ys and said 'this is what our machine can do' things might have gone different

2X4 · 05/17/2007, 07:56 PM

Quote from: ccovell on 05/17/2007, 01:08 PMWow! I'd forgotten about that. That is definitely a mastery rivaling that of Seurat's.

Is that Saturday in the Park?

TurboXray · 05/17/2007, 08:34 PM

Heh. Dungeon Explorer US cover doesn't look as bad as some of the others. My over all impression of the US covers: they just look ghay-ass. Back then, I always preferred the anime style artwork over whatever embarrassing artwork they decided to use in place of.

On a side note: I've seen people complain or rant about anime in games. I know some people don't like anime, but IMO if you don't like anime in your game(s) then why even play games that originated in japan in the first place? It was part of the game and part of the culture from which it came from. Go play some non-japanese computer games instead.

Joe Redifer · 05/17/2007, 09:40 PM

Good way to stereotype. I shall now stereotype as well: Most Americans who like anime are usually overweight, wear glasses and have had little experience with the opposite sex.

MrFulci · 05/17/2007, 10:05 PM

Many of the US covers had that, "hmmmmm" thing going. Dungeon Explorer is definitely one of them. Another one was Legendary Axe. A unique set of artwork on some of those boxes. I'd be curiouse to know how they went about putting the artworks together for certain early releases.

offsidewing · 05/17/2007, 10:44 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 05/17/2007, 09:40 PMGood way to stereotype. I shall now stereotype as well: Most Americans who like anime are usually overweight, wear glasses and have had little experience with the opposite sex.

Speak for yourself! I've banged a least 15 different chicks while watching robot carnival during my early 20's. At least 14 of those girls where hot! Okay, maybe nine. Anyways, Robot Carnival is like Spanish Fly. For some reason chicks just want to get busy when it's on. My wife included. (I hope she never reads these posts!)

Just Beware, don't expect the same results with Venus Wars, Akira, or Golgo 13.

GUTS · 05/17/2007, 11:04 PM

Who was complaining about anime in games? People complain about effiminate main characters and stupid cliched japanese stereotype characters, but anime is perfect for video games when it's used creatively, I don't think you'd find anybody on this board who would argue against that.

esteban · 05/17/2007, 11:29 PM

You guys are far too harsh on the North American artwork. At this point, you should be able to appreciate it on some level. Back in the day, I did not like it at all because it was breathtakingly lame and not very inspiring.

Now, of course, I am grateful that NEC/TTi/WD didn't recycle the Japanese cover art. The North Amercian coverart is our own unique contribution to the PCE world.

Also, I am fairly certain that a small band of artists created a bulk of the artwork -- this creates a cohesiveness across the entire TG-16 library (things changed towards the end, especially with TTi). I think this is pretty neat, since it is so unusual: it was as if they asked one artist to give his / her interpretation of each game in the TG-16 library.

Don't get me wrong, it was only when the TG-16 was dying that I began to truly appreciate the gift that we were given: a gallery of glorious art!

Sure, I like kitschy stuff, but it goes beyond simply laughing at how inept some of the covers are.... there's something truly magical about the art.

Keranu · 05/18/2007, 03:15 AM

Steve is absolutely right, there is a special feeling the American cover art gives. Anime covers can look nice and all, but those cheesy American covers seem to give more emotion and capture the enviroments of the game in a more realistic way. When I think about this "magic", Vigilante is the first game that comes to mind. The artwork does a fantastic job recreating level 2 (I think) and really presents the area like the game did, only with more detail to make the surrounding look even dirtier for the enemy's turf.

offsidewing · 05/18/2007, 09:59 AM

Can we really compare the PCE to TG cover art ex-post-facto?

We're talking the conceptual differences of two diverse cultures in a small entertainment/electronics segment of almost 20 years ago. Japan was the far off fantasy land that got all the hot electronic (and related items) years before we in the colonies did. There was no interenet, no fanboys, and a handful of resouces committed to video games. I wish I had a nickel for every time I heard: "In Japan, I heard they have this..."

Anime/Manga was(is) mainstream in Japan. Here in the states, no matter how much we love it, the best it Anime will ever achieve is cult status. Toonami is the best we can ever expect. So saying the casual American video game player won't appreciate an Anime cover is accurate, but that doesn't in any way discount the artistry of Anime or the intellegence of the US buyer. Amine was a great platform to base games off of in Japan, and games were a great platform to base Anime/Manga from.

Can any one fault NEC USA for electing to illustrate the cover are the way they did? Big eyes, big guns, giant open mouths, and machine gun jubblies was, um, well, foreign in the early 90's. I think the TG cover are opened up my imagination a bit more to the game. Of course I was an early impressionable teen then, but that was the target audience of the US videogame industry at the time.

kenomac78 · 05/18/2007, 12:26 PM

joe

you maybe only half right on that sterotype. i would say thats true for guys, but for girls the steroetyp is of someone who littlers their myspace pace with anime icons until the damn thing crashes and they do it bcause they think they are some cute angel princess or some bs like that.

esteban · 05/19/2007, 11:29 AM

Quote from: Keranu on 05/18/2007, 03:15 AMSteve is absolutely right, there is a special feeling the American cover art gives. Anime covers can look nice and all, but those cheesy American covers seem to give more emotion and capture the enviroments of the game in a more realistic way. When I think about this "magic", Vigilante is the first game that comes to mind. The artwork does a fantastic job recreating level 2 (I think) and really presents the area like the game did, only with more detail to make the surrounding look even dirtier for the enemy's turf.

Well, I don't know if Vigilante is the best example to bring up

, because it is pretty static and flat... but actually I do like the Vigilante cover for some reason (it's gotta be the way he holds his knife... that's gotta be it!), even though the Japanese cover art has received the HIGHEST PRAISE POSSIBLE. I gotta find the old thread where I compared the covers... but I don't think I have the images saved anywhere...

EDIT: Here is the old thread where Vigilante's PCE cover is deemed THE BEST COVER ART IN THE UNIVERSE. No, I wasn't joking about that. I'll see if I still have the images, but I doubt it (I'm on my second or third laptop since then).

OK, I fixed the links in the old post... but I remember the SMS cover art as being slight different. There must be a few variations of it for SMS, because the one I remember was more minimal (IIRC, anyway).

GUTS · 05/19/2007, 02:34 PM

I forgot how cool the Master System cover for Vigilante was, awesome. Covers with guys getting clocked in the face are always the shit, I love them.

Keranu · 05/19/2007, 04:56 PM

Quote from: stevek666 on 05/19/2007, 11:29 AM
Quote from: Keranu on 05/18/2007, 03:15 AMSteve is absolutely right, there is a special feeling the American cover art gives. Anime covers can look nice and all, but those cheesy American covers seem to give more emotion and capture the enviroments of the game in a more realistic way. When I think about this "magic", Vigilante is the first game that comes to mind. The artwork does a fantastic job recreating level 2 (I think) and really presents the area like the game did, only with more detail to make the surrounding look even dirtier for the enemy's turf.
Well, I don't know if Vigilante is the best example to bring up , because it is pretty static and flat... but actually I do like the Vigilante cover for some reason (it's gotta be the way he holds his knife... that's gotta be it!), even though the Japanese cover art has received the HIGHEST PRAISE POSSIBLE. I gotta find the old thread where I compared the covers... but I don't think I have the images saved anywhere...

Oh yes I forgot about the Japanese cover and I agree it's way better (in fact, it looks like the cover you would see to an American movie from the 80's). I'm also aware the Vigilante isn't the best American cover to show off, but it just really sticks out to me for some reason.

CrackTiger · 05/19/2007, 09:45 PM

Quote from: Keranu on 05/19/2007, 04:56 PMOh yes I forgot about the Japanese cover and I agree it's way better (in fact, it looks like the cover you would see to an American movie from the 80's). I'm also aware the Vigilante isn't the best American cover to show off, but it just really sticks out to me for some reason.

The best pencil crayoned Turbo cover, which is also better than the PCE version, is Legendary Axe.

Aside from the actual art, its also cool how the axe pokes inbetween the logo.

I imagine that the artist got the job after proving themself with this piece and then phoned in the rest once they were hired.

OldRover · 05/19/2007, 09:48 PM

The Japanese one is better, but only because it's got a topless chick on it.

CrackTiger · 05/19/2007, 10:06 PM

Quote from: OldRover on 05/19/2007, 09:48 PMThe Japanese one is better, but only because it's got a topless chick on it.

Maybe if it showed the front. You still see more boob on the North American cover.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 05/14/2007, 06:41 PMSomebody post the covers. I want to see them, but I can't since thumpin_thermous pulled a "Keranu".

The kids on the North American Ordyne cover look like Alex Kidd from the North American cover of 'Miracle World.

OldRover · 05/19/2007, 10:08 PM

Both Ordyne covers are retarded.

esteban · 05/19/2007, 10:44 PM

Quote from: OldRover on 05/19/2007, 10:08 PMBoth Ordyne covers are retarded.

Personally, I like both covers. The composition is spot-on perfect, IMO: I wouldn't change a thing. Well, actually, they should have allowed the artwork to take center-stage and prevent the logos from blocking parts of the illustration. Otherwise, good stuff.

I'd love to have an Ordyne poster, and I'm not even a fan of the game (I've barely played it).

Perhaps it has something to do with the righteous, clenched-fist, outstreched-arm hero on the cover of Ordyne... I tend to like that sort of thing:

Also: CrackTiger, I totally agree with you! The US Legendary Axe cover is far superior. The perspective the artist used is perfect, whilst the Japanese cover has a more awkward composition (and the artwork has a childish quality to it):

That said, of course I love the Japanese cover! It's totally goofy, gorgeous.

Gogan isn't holding his axe as if it is a weapon, instead, he appears to be using his breasts as a weapon. His nipples simply couldn't get any closer to that spider -- and he knows it! Bravo, Gogan. Bravo!

Keranu · 05/20/2007, 02:49 AM

Wow, great Legendary Axe comparison. I never observed the cover for LA much before, but I love the mouth drooling claw on the spider!

GUTS · 05/20/2007, 03:54 AM

Order of the Griffon had a badass cover too, but I think they reused that art from something else. I remember seeing it on a book or some other game way back before Order came out.

Kaminari · 05/20/2007, 06:03 AM

Quote from: ccovell on 05/17/2007, 01:08 PMThat is definitely a mastery rivaling that of Seurat's.

Indeed, the artsy TGX cover is clearly influenced by neo-impressionism

Seldane · 05/20/2007, 10:20 AM

Wow, the Legendary Axe NA cover was great! Too bad about the "logo" though, I think that's what ruins a lot of the cover pictures.