PCEngine-FX.com

I've been trolling facebook pretty hard tonight as a result.

It always gets me when it takes someones death for people to give a shit.

and even then its the same prepackaged doom and gloom sadness bullshit and/or clueless goons trying to sound like revolutionaries with their STEVE JOBS CHANGED THE WORLD WITH HIS INVENTIONS crap.  and their OMG HE MADE THE IPOD WITH HIS BAREHANDS AND NOW HES GONE THANK YOU STEVE FOR ALL THE MUSIC. crap.


I thought Steve Jobs was an annoying douche.  He was going to die eventually, obviously.  It sucks he died the way he died.  It doesn't make me think hes any less of a dickbag though.

WHATS EVERYONE ELSES THOUGHTS?

I give him credit where it's due for his work, but the man himself was a major dickhead and everyone hated him except the top executives at Apple. But we all knew the crocodile tears were coming.

This is the first thread title about this that has given me a chuckle.  Steve should be commended for his strong vision in the past, though I don't agree what he has been doing with Apple recently.

I hate these threads. Every single famous person who dies gets their own thread on every forum I go to. Its almost as hollow as a Facebook "happy birthday" barrage once a year.

It's better than Happy Birthday threads, that's for sure. 

Steve Jobs Wikipedia Entry (https://i.imgur.com/ZrOZd.png)

Since we're on a video game forum, how many people know the story of when Steve Jobs worked at Atari and how he made people think he had actual engineering skills.
http://classicgaming.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Articles.Detail&id=395

Quote from: DragonmasterDan on 10/06/2011, 08:16 AMSince we're on a video game forum, how many people know the story of when Steve Jobs worked at Atari and how he made people think he had actual engineering skills.
http://classicgaming.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Articles.Detail&id=395

yeah.

'HEY, WOZ, DO THIS FOR ME ILL GIVE YOU 5... I MEAN 50% OF THE MONEY"

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 10/06/2011, 08:31 AMyeah.

'HEY, WOZ, DO THIS FOR ME ILL GIVE YOU 5... I MEAN 50% OF THE MONEY"

Yep, it's a great story and tells you a lot about Steve's character. I'm very bothered by the fact that there is a small sect of people out there to whom Apple is a religion and Steve Jobs was their messiah.

iPhone4s  was so disappointing that it turk our jerbs!

Quote from: DragonmasterDan on 10/06/2011, 08:44 AM

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 10/06/2011, 08:31 AMyeah.

'HEY, WOZ, DO THIS FOR ME ILL GIVE YOU 5... I MEAN 50% OF THE MONEY"

Yep, it's a great story and tells you a lot about Steve's character. I'm very bothered by the fact that there is a small sect of people out there to whom Apple is a religion and Steve Jobs was their messiah.

I was never a fan of Steve Jobs. His personality annoys me, and he didn't do any of the real work.

Jobs was a cunt who profited off the hard labor and creativity of others. Glad hes dead. I did expect him to die before Winohouse, but meh, whatever, either way, his death is a success story as far as I'm concerned. Got to add, near the end it really was like watching Skeletor go up on stage to present and talk about his latest weapon.

Aside from that he also treated everything he did as some kind of earth shattering new device.  Really, most of it was just a bunch of rehashed crap over and over again in shiny white casings.

No more keynotes with him standing up there with that smug grin, preaching about his revolution.

Thank God.

Now PC reigns supreme because Bill Gates is IMMORTAL.

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 10/06/2011, 11:34 AMNow PC reigns supreme because Bill Gates is IMMORTAL.

Of course Gates is immortal... he's only the Anti-Christ after all. :lol: That's what some people claim anyway. :-k

Quote from: PCEngineHell on 10/06/2011, 11:15 AMJobs was a cunt who profited off the hard labor and creativity of others.

Thats' the way she goes my friend, its us guys in the trenches making these guys look good, but they can have the stresses and the dealings of the f@cking corporate ladder as it will end your life early. He is no different than anyone else in that position, but dieing of cancer is no way to go.

Meh.  Seems like Jobs is the kind of guy I would've hated if I met him in person.  His early video game stories and his apparent lack of true technical skills also make me think he's given more credit than he should receive too.

Though I will agree with those who said it before me, cancer sucks.

I don't know who does Apple's advertising, but that's the true king of that company.

Quote from: TheClash603 on 10/06/2011, 10:14 PMMeh.  Seems like Jobs is the kind of guy I would've hated if I met him in person.  His early video game stories and his apparent lack of true technical skills also make me think he's given more credit than he should receive too.

Though I will agree with those who said it before me, cancer sucks.

I don't know who does Apple's advertising, but that's the true king of that company.

He stomped around Atari barefoot being a dirty hippy, calling people dumbasses or whatever.

and then Wozniak did all the real work for him. 

All steve did was find the people who knew how to do shit, and conned them into doing it for his LSD revolution horse shit.

1 BUTTON MICE MAN, IM CONDUCTING CLASSICAL MUSIC.

I didn't care for Steve Jobs, but I sure as shit didn't want the man to die of cancer.  I find it kind of fucked up people here wish harm on someone that they've never met.  What I want to know though is if people are going to make as big of a fuss when Wozniac ever passes on?

Quote from: geise on 10/07/2011, 07:09 AMI didn't care for Steve Jobs, but I sure as shit didn't want the man to die of cancer.  I find it kind of fucked up people here wish harm on someone that they've never met.  What I want to know though is if people are going to make as big of a fuss when Wozniac ever passes on?

Wozniac is a far more likable figure in my opinion. But far too many people fell for Steve Jobs reality distortion field and bought into the hype around the man. So I suspect Wozniac won't be as fondly remembered.

Woz used to have the high score for Gameboy Tetris for years. If anyone has any old Nintendo Powers, check it out. I'll remember him for that, because that was the first place I ever saw him.

Quote from: grahf on 10/07/2011, 08:31 AMWoz used to have the high score for Gameboy Tetris for years. If anyone has any old Nintendo Powers, check it out. I'll remember him for that, because that was the first place I ever saw him.

They quit taking his scores so he started submitting them as Evets Kainzow, his name backwards.

Haha that's great!   :lol:

Holy shit that went way past my head.  I remember that!  I feel like a dumbass now.

Quote from: grahf on 10/07/2011, 08:31 AMWoz used to have the high score for Gameboy Tetris for years. If anyone has any old Nintendo Powers, check it out. I'll remember him for that, because that was the first place I ever saw him.

I'll remember Woz as the genius that created the variable speed floppy disk controller that was able to provide access to the entire 800k storage capacity of a DS/DD 3.5" disk.

It always pissed me off that DS/DD disks in the PC world were limited to 720k.

Quote from: nat on 10/07/2011, 10:28 PM

Quote from: grahf on 10/07/2011, 08:31 AMWoz used to have the high score for Gameboy Tetris for years. If anyone has any old Nintendo Powers, check it out. I'll remember him for that, because that was the first place I ever saw him.

I'll remember Woz as the genius that created the variable speed floppy disk controller that was able to provide access to the entire 800k storage capacity of a DS/DD 3.5" disk.

It always pissed me off that DS/DD disks in the PC world were limited to 720k.

Even before that stroke of genius, Disk II is one of the greatest feats of engineering ever made. 

Yknow, Apple started sucking when Wozniak stopped engineering the crap. The stuff from the glory days of 8 bit computing by Apple was pretty badass.

He's what I think of when I think of Apple.

When I think of Steve Jobs, I think of turtlenecks, douchebags, and stupid hardware that should be thrown against a wall.

I think the only pieces of Apple hardware I've owned were a 4th gen (b&w) 20GB iPod, which was fucking awesome. Got it used for $175, and that thing lasted me about 3 years. Since then I've just used my phone for music.  The other piece of Apple hardware I've owned was a bluetooth Mighty Mouse. It was great at first, mostly because it was the first wireless mouse I every owned. After a while though I realized it was a piece of shit. What a terrible design.

I do think most Apple hardware is OK. The Mac mini is a cool little machine, for example. But for the most part it's all just too overpriced.

You're paying for the douche-factor of owning a mac, and all of the appliance like shiny white trim on everything.  It's not like you're paying for top notch hardware.  You can get an IBM compatible for less that does more.  Crazy.

the iMac is a ripoff anyways.  I had a PC that looked like that back when Pentium 1 was state of the art.  Back then, Apple was still cranking out creamy towers/desktops.

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_04kZGR_ltmE/TTAb5kn6FPI/AAAAAAAAI7Y/PGlVxPTeQUs/s1600/Monorail-All-In-One-First-Flat-Screen-Computer.jpg)

I had one of these back when I was in 4th grade (1997),and played the shit out of D&D/M&M/Wizardry games on it.

Most of Apples innovations in the outward appearance department are ripoffs.  Jobs would just use his cult status/money/douchefactor marketing to make people think it was fresh and new, and that everyone needs to have it.

The real innovation was what was INSIDE the thing.  Once Wozniak left, that went out the window though.

Apple is responsible for Ultima's success (Akalabeth was done on an Apple II), but what's funny is right when Wozniak left Apple (late 80s) is about when OSI stopped with the Ultima for Apple.  Ultima VI never hit the Apple II, but it hit the C64! ;)

granted, it blew dick on the C64, it still reached it.  late 80s/early 90s DOS is awesome. 

OK Arkhan you appear perhaps a bit too butthurt about Apple.  Not liking their shit is one thing, but DAMN dude, did they piss in your Cheerios or something?  You seem obsessed.  Apple has obviously affected you a great deal.

Like their products or not, they sell quite well which is the goal of any company.  You cannot fault them for having amazing sales figures.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 10/10/2011, 01:30 PMOK Arkhan you appear perhaps a bit too butthurt about Apple.  Not liking their shit is one thing, but DAMN dude, did they piss in your Cheerios or something?  You seem obsessed.  Apple has obviously affected you a great deal.

I'm guessing it's because he's going to college right now.  It really sucks being surrounded by idiots with fifteen-hundred-dollar fashion accessories...*ahem* - I mean MacBook Pros, especially if you actually know anything about computers.

Amazing sales figures = Marketing, and nothing more.

The power of propaganda is an amazing thing.  Just got done watching Ken Burns' Prohabition, which was a great look at historical propoganda.  When people look back at Apple in business classes 50 years from now, what will be discussed is their marketing machine.

Quote from: TheClash603 on 10/10/2011, 03:01 PMAmazing sales figures = Marketing, and nothing more.

I'm anything but an Apple zealot, but I'll give credit where it's due: there's more to 'em than marketing.  OSX is a fine OS (arguably better than Windows in many respects), much of their hardware is very well designed and easy to use, and price isn't terribly ridiculous as long as you're comparing apples to apples (pun not intended) for of both hardware specs and design.  The only place where Apple really falls down is that they have nothing that competes with entry level desktops/laptops and they offer meager customization options.

Quote from: NecroPhile on 10/10/2011, 03:41 PMI'm anything but an Apple zealot, but I'll give credit where it's due: there's more to 'em than marketing.  OSX is a fine OS (arguably better than Windows in many respects), much of their hardware is very well designed and easy to use, and price isn't terribly ridiculous as long as you're comparing apples to apples (pun not intended) for of both hardware specs and design.  The only place where Apple really falls down is that they have nothing that competes with entry level desktops/laptops and they offer meager customization options.

From a business standpoint they're a nightmare to support. When I was younger I worked for a video game magazine that ran a nearly entirely Mac environment, getting simple things like shared printing to work were hellish tasks, even with OSX (though this was far worse under mac classic). The biggest problems with Macs are as widely mentioned the high entry level cost, the fact that they are by no means better hardware (back in the day an argument could be made that Power PC at least as an architecture was better than X86, but since the switch to Intel that's not been the case) and you're paying a premium to legally use OSX, which in 2011 has very few advantages over Windows as it has caught up with many of the publishing and multimedia utilities that kept the Macintosh platform alive for so many years.

Quote from: DragonmasterDan on 10/10/2011, 03:51 PMWhen I was younger I worked for a video game magazine...........

wait what?

Quote from: JoshTurboTrollX-16 on 10/10/2011, 04:36 PMwait what?

I'm surprised you didn't know that.

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff85/DragonmasterDan/100_1959.jpg)
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff85/DragonmasterDan/100_1758.jpg)

Quote from: NecroPhile on 10/10/2011, 03:41 PMI'm anything but an Apple zealot, but I'll give credit where it's due: there's more to 'em than marketing.  OSX is a fine OS (arguably better than Windows in many respects), much of their hardware is very well designed and easy to use, and price isn't terribly ridiculous as long as you're comparing apples to apples (pun not intended) for of both hardware specs and design.  The only place where Apple really falls down is that they have nothing that competes with entry level desktops/laptops and they offer meager customization options.

I despite Apple for many reasons.  I thought they were pretty great until all this iBullshit complete with everything turning shiney white.  It's like an aryan computer race.

My PC cost less than the cheapest Macbook.

The cheapest Macbook can't run WoW on full settings, or FFXIV at all. 

My PC can.  What kind of comparison are we supposed to be doing here?  I am playing FFXIV in glorious 1920x1080 fullscreen on highest settings.  Gogling the comtents.

I hate Apple for reasons along the lines of what Vestcoat said.  They allow the LCD of computer users to think they know stuff.  When I hear someone say "I want a mac, its more versatile than a PC" and I know that person is a complete moron and can't even run a spyware scanner (because I had to de-retard their Windows XP computer multiple times.  Stop clicking Yes to everything on the internet.), I get annoyed.  I know it's just them repeating crap they saw in a commercial or advertisement online.  They don't know dick about computers.

Tons of dipshits running around with glowing Apples, acting like they're all computer engineers because they connected with Steve Jobs on a cosmic level while listening to Arcade Fire in a dark room on their iPod while reading Jobs' quotes on Wikipedia.  Hipsters flock to Apple and repeat all the crap in the commercials.  I've heard countless people do the "it just works" shit.   The one guy in IS at my work is an Appletard and he tries telling people to use OSX for everything.  "If it can't be done in OSX, it shouldn't be done at all".  I pointed out that the software we make is for Windows and asked how that made him feel.

A Mac is not more versatile.  I've yet to find someone tell me something their mac can do that a PC can't.  I don't think I ever will. I'm open to suggestions.

But, a PC can play tons of games, and do all the media design photo video hoojoo music crap OSX can! :).  I prefer FruityLoops over the Mac's music program options...  If you have the right know-how, you can use legacy hardware even!  Far more customizable.  You won't see any fuckin iMac computers with sweet blue LED fans all over the thing.  You COULD use a mac to do stuff like C64/PCE/NES development, but you'll be gooning around with USB to Serial/Parallel cables since the Mac doesn't have those ports and has no other means to getting them.

the plastic Macbook casing is trash also.  I went through 2 batteries in a year with my brandnew Macbook.  The power cable for it broke in under 6 months.  The "Super drive" had to be replaced in 8 months.  I'm glad I drowned that fucker in Pepsi and sold it broken on eBay for like 800 bucks.  I put the hard drive in my PS3.  Suck on that, Jobs.

Insanity was burned on a 1x SCSI CD Burner.  What's that tell you?  Mac's aren't built to last anymore.  They used to be.  Power Macs were awesome.

and, Windows 7 is the greatest OS I have ever used.  It installs in under 30 minutes and is ready to go the second you boot to the desktop.  That rules.  There are a huge list of awesome things in Windows 7.  Windows 8 on the other hand, that shit is going to suck.  I don't want it.

I used OSX for about 2 years and was underwhelmed by it.  If I want that kind of environment, I'll use Linux.  I used to use Linux w/ a OSX theme and confuse people.  'HOW DID YOU GET OSX ON THAT NEC LAPTOP BRAH? WHATS AN NEC ? IS THAT FOREIGN"  Direct quote from some scarf-wearing-in-90-degree-weather idiot.

It looks sterile.  I can't stand the silvery gunmetal look to it.  The dock is one of the most annoying things on the planet.  The amount of useful software for someone like me can be counted on 2 hands with spare fingers left over. 

oh, and Apple mice are retarded.  The newest one looks like a friggin electric shaver.

Sure, I will recognize that OSX is nice and that it is stable.  It's snappy/responsive (but I sure crashed it constantly.  Just works my ass!)... but it's not really for me.  I need more than it can offer.  Apple wants you to treat your computer like an appliance.  Steve Jobs thought that early on.  He even looked at various household appliances for design ideas for the hardware.  They aren't made for power users.  Development for Apple platforms is irritating too.  Objective C is special ed and XCode is trash on a stick.

PC4Lyfe.  w/ some Linux if I feel like being an extra-douchey douche.

If Apple didn't charge out the ass for their products, I could maybe see myself liking them more.  I get more bang for my buck building my own PCs.  Then, I can blow more money on things that matter, like PCE games and guitars.

The "it just works" shit is something they stole from FreeBSD, which is what OSX is largely based on. FreeBSD just works. OSX just breaks and their hardware is shitty. I don't understand how you can take a nearly-perfect system like FreeBSD and goon it up so fucking badly.

Quote from: The Old Rover on 10/10/2011, 06:32 PMThe "it just works" shit is something they stole from FreeBSD, which is what OSX is largely based on. FreeBSD just works. OSX just breaks and their hardware is shitty. I don't understand how you can take a nearly-perfect system like FreeBSD and goon it up so fucking badly.

See OpenBSD or NetBSD

I'm not sure where this "OS X breaks" stuff is coming from.  That's clearly user error.  Shared printing is incredibly easy to set up, took me like 10 seconds and it works flawlessly.  As for Macs being more versatile, well, you can run OS X, Linux and Windows all on the same machine (either by direct boot or running multiple OSes simultaneously).  That's a lot harder to accomplish on a Windows machine.  Hackintosh environments aren't the most stable things known to man.  OSX is super cheap compared to Windows and there aren't 1,000 different versions of varied crippled-ness to pick from, but I know most of you likely pirate the software anyway.

As for the hardware, yeah it is easier to change shit out on a self-made non-Mac machine (don't try to tell me that computers built by Dell or whoever are better.  Bullshit.  ALWAYS build your own).  I don't give a rat's ass about laptops.  My Mac Pro can have any of its components changed out, including the processors.

I use OSX because of Final Cut Studio.  There is nothing else that compares in my opinion.  Adobe Premiere is good but it's certainly not as good (though it is about a billion times better than Final Cut Pro X which is just a joke).  But I don't bitch and whine about PCs and Windows like some here like to bitch and whine like babies about Macs.  I know how to use Windows.  I have nothing against it.  I don't even run any virus software on my Windows machines and I have never gotten a virus.  It's all about common sense where you go what what you download.  I think you guys must be jealous that Apple has so much money or something.  If you truly didn't care about Apple, you'd just brush it off with something like "Who cares?  I don't need that shit".  But instead Apple has hurt you.  And like a wounded dog you make a lot of noise, but nobody will come to help you.  So the lowest Mac laptop won't run shitty games like WoW at full settings... so don't buy one!  Why are you bitching about it if you didn't buy one?

I can understand any hatred for the "Apple culture".  The Apple commercials reek of elitism.  I hate that, too.  If I had a laptop and was forced to use it in a shitty place like Starbucks, I'd put electrical tape over that damn Apple logo because I wouldn't want to be one of those douches.  But this doesn't mean that everyone who owns or uses an Apple product is a douche.  Steve Jobs turned the company around from certain disaster and his abilities to be commended.  Nobody is saying that you need to like Apple or their products, but it was impressive from a business point of view.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 10/10/2011, 07:00 PMI'm not sure where this "OS X breaks" stuff is coming from.  That's clearly user error.  Shared printing is incredibly easy to set up, took me like 10 seconds and it works flawlessly.  As for Macs being more versatile, well, you can run OS X, Linux and Windows all on the same machine (either by direct boot or running multiple OSes simultaneously).  That's a lot harder to accomplish on a Windows machine.  Hackintosh environments aren't the most stable things known to man.  OSX is super cheap compared to Windows and there aren't 1,000 different versions of varied crippled-ness to pick from, but I know most of you likely pirate the software anyway.

I'll answer the first part. OSX breaks when you try running X-windows programs on it, at least it did up to OSX 10.4 or so which was the last version I was using. OSX has a Unix backbone but isn't very usable for someone who is really into using flavors of Unix (FreeBSD, Solaris even Linux).

QuoteAs for the hardware, yeah it is easier to change shit out on a self-made non-Mac machine (don't try to tell me that computers built by Dell or whoever are better.  Bullshit.  ALWAYS build your own).  I don't give a rat's ass about laptops.  My Mac Pro can have any of its components changed out, including the processors.

I use OSX because of Final Cut Studio.  There is nothing else that compares in my opinion.  Adobe Premiere is good but it's certainly not as good (though it is about a billion times better than Final Cut Pro X which is just a joke).  But I don't bitch and whine about PCs and Windows like some here like to bitch and whine like babies about Macs.  I know how to use Windows.  I have nothing against it.  I don't even run any virus software on my Windows machines and I have never gotten a virus.  It's all about common sense where you go what what you download.  I think you guys must be jealous that Apple has so much money or something.  If you truly didn't care about Apple, you'd just brush it off with something like "Who cares?  I don't need that shit".  But instead Apple has hurt you.  And like a wounded dog you make a lot of noise, but nobody will come to help you.  So the lowest Mac laptop won't run shitty games like WoW at full settings... so don't buy one!  Why are you bitching about it if you didn't buy one?

Also it depends on why people dislike Apple. My three biggest problems with Apple are the lack of enterprise applications, the significant price difference from comparable hardware and what we'll get to in the next paragraph. For things like multimedia and publishing they're still a bit better than PCs if you're willing to spend the money. It's just that very few people are, and many people are upset to buy a Macintosh at a huge premium over a PC only to find it's not capable, even when using bootstrap loader and Windows of doing the same tasks as a cheaper PC.

QuoteI can understand any hatred for the "Apple culture".  The Apple commercials reek of elitism.  I hate that, too.  If I had a laptop and was forced to use it in a shitty place like Starbucks, I'd put electrical tape over that damn Apple logo because I wouldn't want to be one of those douches.  But this doesn't mean that everyone who owns or uses an Apple product is a douche.  Steve Jobs turned the company around from certain disaster and his abilities to be commended.  Nobody is saying that you need to like Apple or their products, but it was impressive from a business point of view.

This is most peoples biggest problem with Apple, it's not just the culture of elitism among diehards. It's the fact that to many of their diehards Apple is not a computer, phone and portable media player vendor, it's a social movement bordering on a religion.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 10/10/2011, 07:00 PMWhy are you bitching about it if you didn't buy one?

Quote from: Arkhanthe plastic Macbook casing is trash also.  I went through 2 batteries in a year with my brandnew Macbook.  The power cable for it broke in under 6 months.  The "Super drive" had to be replaced in 8 months.  I'm glad I drowned that fucker in Pepsi and sold it broken on eBay for like 800 bucks.  I put the hard drive in my PS3.  Suck on that, Jobs.

I try every computer platform and every operating system before making bold, hate-filled remarks about them.  Don't knock it til you try it, :).  I tried it.  I loled.

There was no user error while using my Macbook and sitting waiting for the pinwheel to stop spinning before I got bored and rebooted it.  Systems crash.  There is no such thing as a system that doesn't crash.  My Windows machines crash less than my Mac machine did.  A macbook with a C2D shouldn't crash/screw up while doing trivial shit like running a few emulators and programming stuff in XCode.   But, it did.  The fucker bottomed out daily while using Paralolz to try and do Windows-only things while still enjoying my justworksOSX.  What a trainwreck.

Why would you honestly want to run OSX if you have an IBM compatible that can run Linux, FreeBSD, and Windows.  The hell are you going to do on OSX that you cant do there besides Final Cut Studio?  Isn't that crap like 1000$ new?  If that's your thing, cool.

That seems to be what Macs do.  Video/Film crap.  I hate that shit, so it's no wonder I hate Macs.

I'm not really jealous about their money.  That's a stupid reason to not like someone.  I mean, I hate the white trash in trailer parks on the way downtown, and they're poor as fuck.

I use VMWare here to run some Linux VMs to do some retarded open-source related shit.  Past that I have never seen a purpose for running two OSes at once.  What is the point?  Someone has to have a good answer. 

also, I don't pirate Windows.  I get it for free from school.  \o/

GIVE ME DOS OR GIVE ME DEATH.

I hate this. I hate that.  You sure use the word "hate" a lot.  You just need somebody to love.

I can hate whatever I want.  If I don't like it, I hate it.

:)

What's funny is, I love the Apple II.  That thing rules.  Anything from the Apple II line was pretty awesome. 

Nothing is mediocre?  Nothing is worth indifference towards?  Not even the Game Gear?

I can't be indifferent towards something that breeds douches that float around my school repeating commercials and sipping on Starbucks.  The only solution is rage.

LOL, you couldn't be more wrong.  Those guys would be douches without Apple or even Starbucks.  Those types of douches latch on to Apple products.  Apple does not create douches. I thought you were smarter than this.  They latch onto something like Apple because it gives them an identity which they clearly don't have becuase they suck as individuals.  If not for Apple, they'd latch onto something else like Unix or TurboGrafx-16.

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 10/09/2011, 11:16 PMHe's what I think of when I think of Apple.
When I think of Steve Jobs, I think of turtlenecks, douchebags, and stupid hardware that should be thrown against a wall.

Funny you should say that, reminded me of something. Every time I think of Commodore, I think of this:

video_c64_training_tape_jim_butterfield.webp
http://youtu.be/J9WnHuGjZ38

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 10/10/2011, 09:52 PMLOL, you couldn't be more wrong.  Those guys would be douches without Apple or even Starbucks.  Those types of douches latch on to Apple products.  Apple does not create douches. I thought you were smarter than this.  They latch onto something like Apple because it gives them an identity which they clearly don't have becuase they suck as individuals.  If not for Apple, they'd latch onto something else like Unix or TurboGrafx-16.

Oh you misunderstand.  If they were latched onto something like that, it wouldn't have a glowing Apple, it wouldn't be all over my Computer science classrooms, pissing me off constantly, and I wouldn't have to hear stupid ass commercials repeated constantly! :).  It breeds douches means, it feeds the idiots crap to repeat like mindless drones in order to spread the word about the product.

Plus Unix latcher-onners are socially retarded and can be shutup by simply telling them shut the fuck up, or by beating them with their fannypacks.  If they were latched onto a retro console, there would be no hipster marketing bullshit to repeat constantly.  Apple is socially current.  It's happening now.  there is no TurboPhone, no PCEPa... oh wait. bad example...

:)

and, lol, Jim Butterfield.  As hokey as that shit right there is, at least Butterfield knew his shit!

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 10/10/2011, 09:52 PMLOL, you couldn't be more wrong.  Those guys would be douches without Apple or even Starbucks.  Those types of douches latch on to Apple products.  Apple does not create douches. I thought you were smarter than this.  They latch onto something like Apple because it gives them an identity which they clearly don't have becuase they suck as individuals.  If not for Apple, they'd latch onto something else like Unix or TurboGrafx-16.

Exactly my point.  Apple is exploiting the lowest common denominator in society.  So many people believe these products are great, because they were told they were great so many times.

It's the reason the Tea Party is successful, just like Triumph of the Will pumped up a nation a long time ago.  People like to get pumped up and follow the masses.  If you are not with the masses, you are generally considered weird.  "What's that Sansa MP3 player?  It must suck."

We are on a TG16 fan site...  if anything, our system's death has a lot to do with this group think mentality.  Apple is the latest in line, there have been many before, and there will be many if the future.

Remember when Starter jackets costs $150 because they were the best?  Now North Face cost $200 because they are the best.  Are either of these things actually the best?

The majority of what we spend money on as Americans is advertising.  When you buy a product, how come companies only make 20% margins on something that cost $3 to make and they sell for $80 (here's looking at you Nike, another great example).  It is because even though their slave laborers make $1 a week to make the shoes, it costs them $50 a pair to market.

Long rant, maybe got off point...  but anyway, Apple is overrated hardware, period.

Apple convinces dumbasses that they know how to operate a computer as good as programmers/engineers.

If anyone actually thinks that because they own an Apple, they have far, far bigger problems in life.

Anyway, Macs aren't tremendously popular.  You see a lot of their laptops, but that is about it.  They have less than 5% of the market I think.  The average "Apple user" is an iPhone or iPad-totin' fool.  I have an iPod Touch and I do think it is cool, but I don't think I am cool because of it.  I do not like how the device is closed in the sense that you cannot move things off of it.  That is why I have apps like Pod to Mac and iPhone Explorer (there are also PC versions) which let me treat the thing like a USB drive like it should be.  I have pointed this out to Apple people in Cupertino or wherever the hell they are when we were screen sharing.  The guy was trying to get me to press certain things in iTunes that would, of course, delete everything on my iPod.  I didn't fall for it.  He kept insisting that I use iTunes to sync my shit.  Screw that!

Anyway, my point is that as afraid of Apple as everyone is, you have nothing to fear from them.  Your trusty, cheap-as-dirt PC is in no danger of going away.  But I think the Mac Pro market is.  I think Apple wants to dumb down their target audience, get away from professional users (ie people who actually use their computers to create stuff for their livlihood) and only appeal to grandmas who surf the net.  At least that was where it was headed with Jobs behind the wheel.

Yeah a co-worker of mine forked out about $8k for his mac desktop!  I looked at the specs on it and it's some insane shit!  I priced it out in PC parts that would equal what he just spent.  It was actually $3k cheaper.  He stands by the fact that it's made better and the two 27" mac monitors he has are better displays, but holy fuck it's $8k.  He does a shit ton of freelance though and wrote the $8k mac off as a business expense.  So, he said that paid for a good bit of it.  He wanted a machine that could last him at least 4 years.

I dont think any mac manufactured 4 years ago can run OSX Lion today ...

Oh he just built the thing before Tax season.  it's some 6 core intel desktop workstation. 

Im not really afraid of Apple.  It's more like extremely frigging annoyed by them.  Maybe once I finish my masters up (in 1 or 2 semesters!) and I am no longer on a college campus full of dingbats with Macbook air/pro's, I will be less annoyed.  Every day on campus is like an iPod commercial.  They might as well all be black silhouettes, flailing around in the halls.

Quote from: geise on 10/11/2011, 07:10 AMHe wanted a machine that could last him at least 4 years.

Then why did he buy a Mac?

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 10/10/2011, 05:48 PMA Mac is not more versatile.  I've yet to find someone tell me something their mac can do that a PC can't.  I don't think I ever will. I'm open to suggestions.

I've yet to find a Windows laptop that handles multi-touch gestures on the touchpad in a competent manner.  They say that they're multi-touch, but, oh man, are they ever awful.  I also haven't found a good solution in Windows for having multiple workspaces/desktops (although Linux handles this beautifully).

Who needs multitouch gestures when you have a right mouse button? :)

Theres a few options for multi workspacing (I've used Crystal Desktop).

There is also some dock nonsense that mimics OSX.  I think it was called Stardock.  I forget, since docks serve no purpose for me.

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 10/11/2011, 10:04 AMWho needs multitouch gestures when you have a right mouse button? :)

I would honestly only use them for window management (three finger swipe up for Expose, three finger swipe down for show Desktop, etc).  The "pinch" gestures are so incredibly unintuitive to me, so I don't mind losing them at all.

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 10/11/2011, 10:04 AMTheres a few options for multi workspacing (I've used Crystal Desktop).

I haven't tried that one, but the handful that I did try all seem to work minimizing/restoring windows as you switch desktops.  It always ends up being buggy.  Either the windows don't show up properly, or if they do the wrong program has focus.  Maybe this one is better, but all that I've tried has been so hacky that I don't care to try anymore.  I'm using Win7's keyboard shortcuts and two monitors to handle things, and it's working well enough.

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 10/11/2011, 10:04 AMThere is also some dock nonsense that mimics OSX.  I think it was called Stardock.  I forget, since docks serve no purpose for me.

Stardock is the company, Objectdock is the product.  I agree that the dock is totally useless.  Of course, I'm a guy who always sets the taskbar to auto-hide, so maybe I'm a bit biased.  Stardock makes quality software, though.  I use Fences on just about every Windows installation that I have.

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 10/11/2011, 09:37 AMIm not really afraid of Apple.  It's more like extremely frigging annoyed by them.  Maybe once I finish my masters up (in 1 or 2 semesters!) and I am no longer on a college campus full of dingbats with Macbook air/pro's, I will be less annoyed.  Every day on campus is like an iPod commercial.  They might as well all be black silhouettes, flailing around in the halls.

Quote from: geise on 10/11/2011, 07:10 AMHe wanted a machine that could last him at least 4 years.

Then why did he buy a Mac?

Do a lot of freelance graphic design and video editing and you'll know why.

Quote from: geise on 10/11/2011, 10:36 AMDo a lot of freelance graphic design and video editing and you'll know why.

but I thought he wanted it to last for 4 years.

Quote from: UglyJoeI would honestly only use them for window management (three finger swipe up for Expose, three finger swipe down for show Desktop, etc).  The "pinch" gestures are so incredibly unintuitive to me, so I don't mind losing them at all.

I use keyboard shortcuts where I can.  Mac keyboard shortcuts annoyed me.  Mostly because that swirly thing that I call "The Akalabeth Town" is goony.  It was used as the town icon in Akalabeth, so that's what it is to me.  It shouldn't be on my keyboard!

QuoteI haven't tried that one, but the handful that I did try all seem to work minimizing/restoring windows as you switch desktops.  It always ends up being buggy.  Either the windows don't show up properly, or if they do the wrong program has focus.  Maybe this one is better, but all that I've tried has been so hacky that I don't care to try anymore.  I'm using Win7's keyboard shortcuts and two monitors to handle things, and it's working well enough.

I've been doing the same and like it. But Crystal Desktop didn't suck when I used it.  The other one did.  I forget it's name, since it sucked.  

QuoteStardock is the company, Objectdock is the product.  I agree that the dock is totally useless.  Of course, I'm a guy who always sets the taskbar to auto-hide, so maybe I'm a bit biased.  Stardock makes quality software, though.  I use Fences on just about every Windows installation that I have.

Stardock definitely makes nice stuff, but it's mostly stuff I have no use for. :)

It's funny though that most of the things on a mac that make it "different", can be done on a PC because someone made the software for it.

Quote from: Opethian on 10/11/2011, 08:43 AMI dont think any mac manufactured 4 years ago can run OSX Lion today ...

LOLOLOL my Mac Pro is from 2006 and it runs OS X like a boss.  It's still faster than many of the models released today.  Yeah, the video card it came with is ancient, but I swapped that out with an ATI Radeon 5770 or some such shit a while ago.  I tried Lion on it and it worked fine, but I felt it was a rather shitty OS compared to Snow Leopard so I moved back.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 10/11/2011, 12:44 PM

Quote from: Opethian on 10/11/2011, 08:43 AMI dont think any mac manufactured 4 years ago can run OSX Lion today ...

LOLOLOL my Mac Pro is from 2006 and it runs OS X like a boss.  It's still faster than many of the models released today.  Yeah, the video card it came with is ancient, but I swapped that out with an ATI Radeon 5770 or some such shit a while ago.  I tried Lion on it and it worked fine, but I felt it was a rather shitty OS compared to Snow Leopard so I moved back.

Youre forgetting the average mac user can't even open a pack of gum, let alone a computer.

Well, since the Mac "just works", the gum is supposed to open and chew itself.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 10/11/2011, 07:40 PMWell, since the Mac "just works", the gum is supposed to open and chew itself.

Any company can make a pack of gum, but Apple did it right.

My friend just bought a new $2000 Mac because he couldn't upgrade to Pro Tools 9 on his $2000 G5.  When I asked why not, he said, "because PT9 requires the new OS and the new OS isn't compatible with my processor."  I said "why don't you just upgrade your processor, it's really easy."  He said, "I can't.  It's a Mac."

Fuck that.

actually he could upgrade the processor if it's the same socket set, unless they put a really shitty power supply in there.

Quote from: TheClash603 on 10/11/2011, 12:34 AM"What's that Sansa MP3 player?  It must suck."

Wow, so I'm not the only one out there that thought the Sansa line of MP3 players were downright awesome?! :P

Xeons (which Mac Pros use) have their own weird-ass socket.  He might be able to use a different processor but I've never heard of anyone doing it.  The Intel Macs are much more "serviceable" in this regard than the old G5s.  The G5 may have been $2000 when he bought it, but that's like saying you replaced your $25,000 car with another $25,000 car therefore "fuck that".  Or maybe that you replaced your $100 graphics card with another $100 graphics card, therefore fuck that.  That argument doesn't hold a lot of weight.  He's obviously willing to pay the price. Does he deserve to be berated for it?  No.  It's his money and he can buy what he wants.  You see, the mindset of an average Apple user may be douchey, but the average mindset of a PC user (from what I've seen on the internet) certainly isn't better.  Psycho Arkhan comes off as a foul human being with his rants.  And similar diatribe doesn't really help anything.  Let people spend money on what they want.  Who gives a fuck?  You're no better than they are.  I don't hear this same bitchiness from people who spend $30,000 on a car when a $500 Yugo could get them to the same place just as well.

The argument holds plenty of weight. He's not griping that the *other* guy spent such a ridiculously stupid amount of money on a disposable machine, he's saying that he himself would never do something so ridiculously stupid. It's this kind of "can't upgrade it so we have to throw it away" attitude that led to the rise of the Walmart society, where everything is disposable and no one gives a shit about anything anymore. Because of this, companies stopped caring and now only produce cheap, low-grade products that are tossable rather than creating stuff that lasts.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 10/11/2011, 11:06 PMI don't hear this same bitchiness from people who spend $30,000 on a car when a $500 Yugo could get them to the same place just as well.

You've obviously NEVER been in a Yugo.  Good/well will never enter that equation LOL

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 10/11/2011, 11:06 PMYou see, the mindset of an average Apple user may be douchey, but the average mindset of a PC user (from what I've seen on the internet) certainly isn't better.  Psycho Arkhan comes off as a foul human being with his rants.  And similar diatribe doesn't really help anything.  Let people spend money on what they want.  Who gives a fuck?  You're no better than they are.  I don't hear this same bitchiness from people who spend $30,000 on a car when a $500 Yugo could get them to the same place just as well.

You call it being a foul human being, I call it being brutally honest and not sugar coating it.  I am far better than the Appletard Cult.  I don't repeat lame commercials and use them to form the basis for my love of the platform, and I don't talk about how Bill Gates is the messiah and a huge inspiration, and all of that bullshit.  And you know what?  Apple started all of the bullshit.  They're the morons that chose to "be different" by basically flaming the other party.  They asked for it every time they released a HULLO IM A HIP MAC, and I'm a boring PC commercial. 

Sorry, my clear blue computer with blue LEDs all the fuck over it, hooked up to a tron keyboard and mouse, playing games at max settings is a lot more hip and cool than a toaster looking machine with a screen on it that can't do shit except Photoshop and cut up videos.  Guess what, my bluebox of doom can run the entire Adobe line, and probably runs it better because I have SLI'd GTX 480s in the fucker right now. 

I just loves me some IBM compatibles and love being able to do whatever the fuck I want to them without needing some special, retarded screw driver just to get into the thing.  Ever try opening a Macbook?  Its a real punch in the cock. 

I stated my reasons for dislike pretty bluntly.  You won't hear me *only* giving the typical anti PC (Apple computers are PCs, lolol)/M$ propaganda nonsense like the iCultists.  All they can do is repeat commercials and have no idea what they're talking about.  The blind leading the blind.  At least my "diatribe" has valid reasoning.  I'm not just hating to hate.  There are reasons.  I tried Mac, I tried putting up with the morons, I gave it all a shot.  And the results are in: The stuff blows.  I even performed an experiment.  I successfully talked 5 people into buying Macbooks by simply repeating the commercials after buying my Macbook.  All I did was repeat all of the crap, and putz around on the thing.  Before I knew it, everyone went and took out Apple credit cards and got Macbooks.  3 of those 5 people regret the living shit out of it.

I don't care if they're buying the stuff.  Go ahead.  It just gives me more reasons to call the people complete dumbfucks.  *shrug*. 

wayback.gawker.com/what-everyone-is-too-polite-to-say-about-steve-jobs (https://web.archive.org/web/20180815231932if_/http://gawker.com/5847344/what-everyone-is-too-polite-to-say-about-steve-jobs)
/300234_1853445276504_1851974134_1278155_571045484_.jpg

Insanity was programmed on a 1ghz NEC (fuck yeah) laptop w/ Linux for about 70% of it, and then moved to an HP w/ Vista/Win7.  Suck it, Apple.  No turbob for you.

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 10/11/2011, 11:39 PMwayback.gawker.com/what-everyone-is-too-polite-to-say-about-steve-jobs (https://web.archive.org/web/20180815231932if_/http://gawker.com/5847344/what-everyone-is-too-polite-to-say-about-steve-jobs)

Quote from article:

QuoteHe has no public record of giving to charity over the years

HA HA, what the hell? They devoted three paragraphs in that article to discussing this. Who gives a flying fuck?

He must be an awful guy, there is no "public record" of any donations to charity. People are really worried about this? Please.

There is no "public record" of any (albeit small) donations I've made to charities in my life. Anyone who is worried about what someone else is doing with their own money, the money they earned, ought to take a long, hard look at their own life and perhaps reconsider their priorities.

I bet there is no public record of him helping little old ladies cross the street, either. What a fucking DICK.

Quote from: natThere is no "public record" of any donations I've made to charities in my life.

What?  No charity?  I hate you.  I am going to waste my time and emotions on hating you.  I don't know why everyone else thinks you're god.

I think the reason they focused on that is because typically when big businesses/famous people make donations, they are well, big.  They don't fly under the radar.  Maybe he did, but I wouldn't be shocked if he didn't donate to charity. 

He spent his early years being a tool for various personal/business reasons, and spent his later years going off the deep end.  Oh well.

When I go, I want people to exclaim that I was a dick.  trollface.jpg better be on the little cards at the funeral, lol.

Those donations don't fly under the radar because usually the person doing the donating doesn't want them to fly under the radar.  They want it known how great of a person they are.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 10/12/2011, 12:40 AMThose donations don't fly under the radar because usually the person doing the donating doesn't want them to fly under the radar.  They want it known how great of a person they are.

So true. But in cases like this, you'd assume scumsuckers like Pat Robertson would be all over this... except he's never given to charity either.

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 10/12/2011, 12:26 AMI think the reason they focused on that is because typically when big businesses/famous people make donations, they are well, big.  They don't fly under the radar.  Maybe he did, but I wouldn't be shocked if he didn't donate to charity. 

You're missing my point.

Who cares if he donated to charity or not? Donations are nobody's business but the person who is making the donation.

I'm guessing he probably did donate, quietly, but even if he didn't, what difference does it make? What bearing does it have on ANYTHING?

These people are making it out like a lack of charitable donations somehow belittles any of the man's life accomplishments. I find it hilarious.

I think it's because it tends to show a lack of humanitarianism. A person who makes a shitload of money and sits on their wealth is only interested in their own selfish desires and doesn't give a rat's ass about their fellow humans. One might argue that his products helped others, but it wasn't altruistic in nature and therefore it wasn't as "worthy" as someone who does "something for nothing". I have no opinion on this either way so I'm not making a judgment, just outlining the way I'm interpreting the various viewpoints.

A self centered guy like Jobs would've probably made a spectacle about his donation.  He likes everyone to see what great thing he is doing so he can stand there with that smug grin on his face and take in the applause and religious-caliber worship.

He'd call it iCharity and tell everyone they need to do the same thing.  There'd be an app for that.

The guy has about as many dick-moves as he does great "inventions" (read: recycled crap).  He started off by screwing people over.  then there is the whole kid thing. 

I could care less if he donated or not, but I see the point of why it was mentioned.  Maybe they're running a bit too far with it, but I see what they're getting at.  I sure hope a rich prick like Jobs donated money to something useful at some point in his career.  Wozniak did.  Maybe Jobs just figured "hey, Woz already did it for me, so I'm good to go!", and suited up for another turtleneck filled day at Apple.

Even if he did donate to charity, he'd still be a polesmoker in my book. :)

Why do you care?  He's dead.  Let others still worship him if they want too, it sure doesn't bother me.  They can buy Mac's all they want as it probably suits their form over function needs.  Not everyone knows what you know about computers.  They most likely never will.  That's where these companies make their "business".  I don't like Jobs but I have to  =D> him for the business sense.  He obviously did something right if he's pissing off a PC user so well.  Most Mac users could care less about using it as a gaming machine.  They just want to buy a computer, turn it on, then do whatever they want without having to install extra stuff.  That was the whole point of a mac.  An easy to use computer out of the box.  I think their great well built machines that (yes) are overpriced.  They still are nice, but I don't own one cause I need more than what a Mac offers.

Quote from: VestCunt on 10/11/2011, 07:59 PMMy friend just bought a new $2000 Mac because he couldn't upgrade to Pro Tools 9 on his $2000 G5.  When I asked why not, he said, "because PT9 requires the new OS and the new OS isn't compatible with my processor."  I said "why don't you just upgrade your processor, it's really easy."  He said, "I can't.  It's a Mac."

Whether or not he could upgrade the CPU is irrelevant (where would one even buy a PowerPC CPU?), as Pro Tools 9 is built for x86 processors.  Those that bought the last PowerPC systems kinda got screwed on the update path, but at least Apple made PowerPC versions of OSX for a couple releases.  Would MS do the same thing?  I doubt it; they still support all-but-dead IA-64, but enterprise stuff is kinda apples and oranges.

In any case, it's a five or six year old computer; try upgrading a PC of similar vintage and you'll find that it's just not worth it (the best LGA775 processors are three years old, and it's even worse if it's entirely hopeless if it's a 478).  Sure you could upgrade the mobo on the PC, but the hdd, memory, and video card are also slow and outdated; change it all out and you end up saving the case, dvd drive, and maybe the power supply.  Big fucking deal.

---

As for donations, who the fuck cares?  I don't know if Jobs personally opened his wallet to lend a hand, but I know that Apple has donated millions to one of the AIDS groups and recently started a donation matching program for its employees; and while it wasn't money directly out of Jobs's pocket, the bulk of his wealth was in company stock and therefor it did affect his bottom line.  Besides, his biggest charity was obvious - look at all the kids in China that have jobs thanks to Jobs!

Quote from: geise on 10/12/2011, 10:19 AMWhy do you care?  He's dead.  Let others still worship him if they want too, it sure doesn't bother me. 

Try going to a college campus full of hipster mactards.  You will change your tune very quickly.  Some professors (who use Macs for lecture power point nonsense) cancelled classes for the week.  Give me a break.  I remember when Snow Leopard came out "YO BRAH, YOU GONNA UPGRADE YOUR MAC? IM SO STOKED.  WERE ALL GONNA GO DOWN TO ELEMENTS AND UPGRADE".  FFS.

Elements is a sweet cafe on Euclid Ave.  Get it? Euclid's Elements? mathnerd ftw.  lol.

I had a few doofs in my one programming class that were sitting with Ubuntu on their MBP's, talking about how they downloaded stuff at "4megs a second because Macs are better at the internet".

4mb/second downloads aren't even possible on our campus WiFi.  I think they downloaded <4mb files, and it happened really fast and the calculation in FireFox didn't really get started right.  lol

QuoteHe obviously did something right if he's pissing off a PC user so well.

Macs are PCs.  Stop that.  And, that's part of the problem.  Jobs' marketing scheme was designed to attack and annoy.  IF YOURE NOT WITH US, YOURE A LOSER.  That sort of thing.  That's dumb marketing.  Then again, most people are dumb.  If your marketing requires you to make the person feel uncool until they're a part of it, your product probably sucks.  You notice how the ads never talk about the power/performance?  It's all fluffy stuff.
 

QuoteMost Mac users could care less about using it as a gaming machine. 
 

Sucks to be them.  I remember when Macs had games.  My old-ass Mac has Wolf3D, Starcraft, Warcraft, and some other stuff.  What happened?
 

QuoteThey just want to buy a computer, turn it on, then do whatever they want without having to install extra stuff.  That was the whole point of a mac.  An easy to use computer out of the box.  I think their great well built machines that (yes) are overpriced.  They still are nice, but I don't own one cause I need more than what a Mac offers.

You can do that with a Windows machine too, it just doesn't come with the cult experience that makes you feel like you're doing something special and revolutionary by buying one.  A fresh install of Windows 7 results in lots of magical computer adventures for everyone.

the only thing I liked about Macs is the packaging.  They also smell really nice when they're new. 

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 10/11/2011, 11:06 PMThe G5 may have been $2000 when he bought it, but that's like saying you replaced your $25,000 car with another $25,000 car therefore "fuck that".  Or maybe that you replaced your $100 graphics card with another $100 graphics card, therefore fuck that.  That argument doesn't hold a lot of weight.  He's obviously willing to pay the price. Does he deserve to be berated for it?  No.  It's his money and he can buy what he wants.  You see, the mindset of an average Apple user may be douchey, but the average mindset of a PC user (from what I've seen on the internet) certainly isn't better.  Arkhan comes off as a foul human being with his rants.  And similar diatribe doesn't really help anything.  Let people spend money on what they want.  Who gives a fuck?  You're no better than they are. 

My first computer was a Mac back in '94 and there's still a lot of things I like about them.  They're user friendly, stable, and you don't have to slow them down running a bunch of anti-virus stuff.  Every time I see someone wait ten minutes for their five-year-old, infected Dell laptop to boot and download Vistas updates I shake my head and think "damn, this guy needs to buy a Mac!"  For a lot of people, especially people with money to throw around, they're perfectly good computers.  On the other hand, there are people like my ex-roommate, whose friend convinced him to buy a $1500 Mac Book Pro:  he uses it to surf the net and listen to CDs and wonders why he doesn't have a "good typing program."  He could have done fine with $200 netbook.   

Personally, I like getting under the hood and wrenching on PCs.  Also, the limited upgrade potential on Macs (AND Dells and other brands) is one step closer to the planned obsolescence than I'm comfortable with.

Anyway, don't get so bent out of shape about Arkan's comments.  Unlike the average troll, he has both valid objections and humor underneath all of that bluster.

I can understand people liking to tinker and the such with their own self-built computers.  I have a self-built computer myself but it is pretty old.  I originally built it to run projectors in movie theaters back in the late 90's.  It had Windows 2000.  It is now my home computer and I have done a few upgrades on it and now it is Windows XP SP2 or 3.  I don't want to game on it and I use it mainly for audio recording because it has a fantastic full duplex Yamaha sound card (though no digital inputs).  It's also a fantastic machine to surf for porn on.  No viruses and no virus protection.  :)

Quote from: geiseMost Mac users could care less about using it as a gaming machine.

Very true. I have game consoles for that.  Games on computers rarely appeal to me.  Granted I do have Steam and downloaded Portal 1 and 2 since they were free.  They can be run on full resolution, max settings on my 5 year old Mac Pro.  It's pretty cool to play but I usually am using the computer for other reasons.  Also, Steam is intrusive and I had to disable it from starting up every time my computer boots.

Will my next computer be a Mac?  Well that depends on the direction they take.  This 64-bit, 5 year old computer still has at least 2 or 3 good years left on it.  If Apple goes the direction where I think Steve Jobs wanted to take it, hell no, I will build a PC and go touch-screen crazy with the absolutely fabulous Windows 8.  Oh wait, it is not absolutely fabulous, but oh well.  Once Apple ruins their pro apps, there would be no reason for me to stick with them.

good read-

wayback.oudaily.com/2011/oct/column-grieving-steve-jobs-becoming-overdone/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20111016052924if_/http://www.oudaily.com/news/2011/oct/13/column-grieving-steve-jobs-becoming-overdone/)

QuoteCOLUMN: Grieving for Steve Jobs becoming overdone
_{By Jacob Oller, The Oklahoma Daily
Published: October 13, 2011}

By now, I assume you know Steve Jobs died. I'll also assume you witnessed the torrent of mourning after his death was announced. Across the Internet, especially on my Facebook news feed for some reason (seriously guys, he's dead, he can't see those), the surprising love for a giant corporate CEO surged. Really? In the midst of Occupy Wall Street, America really needs to make up its mind. Do you actually love the mega-capitalist who immediately canceled all philanthropic activities as soon as he helmed Apple?

Apple actually inhibits consumers from philanthropy with Apple products. The company won't allow applications for donations and hasn't publicly said why. If I'm really going to mourn a businessman's passing, it'll be someone who's improved the world such as Bill Gates.

Gates, who has worked to eradicate malaria, provided clean drinking water to third-world countries, improved America's school system and pledged to donate 95 percent of his wealth to charity, has personally enriched the world. Yet the public's opinion on Bill Gates is something like "Man, screw that rich guy." Jobs found corporate success by marketing "If you don't have one of these, you're a second-class citizen" to people.

In fact, Jobs exploited a loophole in the United Network for Organ Sharing registration system to get a transplanted liver before other people on the list. By having a private jet, Jobs could register for a liver transplant in every clinic in America. As the loophole's been closed, having what scientists are calling "basically infinite money" will now be .01 percent less useful in cheating the system.

The point is yes, Steve Jobs died. And while he was alive, he created and saved from disaster a company that is very popular now. The man knew how to make money. Death is sad and mourning him is warranted, but let's not overdo it people.

Damn straight its a good read!

BILL GATES IS THE REAL MESSIAH.

I think he is a cyborg.

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 10/13/2011, 12:01 PMDamn straight its a good read!

BILL GATES IS THE REAL MESSIAH.

I think he is a cylon.

:mrgreen:

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 10/13/2011, 12:01 PMDamn straight its a good read!

BILL GATES IS THE REAL MESSIAH.

I think he is a cyberman.

:mrgreen:

Yeah, Bill Gates has probably done more for the world.  But mourning even his death would be a bucket full of hypocrisy for the OWS protesters which supposedly represent 99% of all the USA.

nah its only hypocrisy if you mourn one tool and hate on mourning another.

Bill Gates isn't a tool.

I wouldn't call Jobs a tool, either.  Fucker definitely knew what he was doing, even if it did make him an asshole.  But the hypocrisy is that they are mourning mega-capitalists and protesting for the US to become more communist/less capitalist at the same time.

OK, now let's get down to the nitty-gritty.  I want an honest answer here.  Approximately how much would it cost me to build the following Windows machine with these specs:

-Two 2.93 Ghz 6-core processors (or better)
-8 GB DDR3 ECC SDRAM (or better)
-At least 1 TB hard drive.
-ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB (or better)
-Phuggin' wicked-ass sound card (full duplex with digital in and out... can be on motherboard)
-DVD or Blu-ray burner
-Case
-Power supply
-Internal LED lights that let everyone know I am a class-A douche
-Mouse
-Keyboard
-Appropriate motherboard, CPU fans/heat sink, etc
-Windows 7 64-bit (not the shitty home version, the full thing)

Guesstimate price?

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 10/13/2011, 08:05 PMOK, now let's get down to the nitty-gritty.  I want an honest answer here.  Approximately how much would it cost me to build the following Windows machine with these specs:

-Two 2.93 Ghz 6-core processors (or better)
-8 GB DDR3 ECC SDRAM (or better)
-At least 1 TB hard drive.
-ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB (or better)
-Phuggin' wicked-ass sound card (full duplex with digital in and out... can be on motherboard)
-DVD or Blu-ray burner
-Case
-Power supply
-Internal LED lights that let everyone know I am a class-A douche
-Mouse
-Keyboard
-Appropriate motherboard, CPU fans/heat sink, etc
-Windows 7 64-bit (not the shitty home version, the full thing)

Guesstimate price?

Just last week I built almost that exact same setup (only had one 3ghz 6-core processor and used an onboard video - ATI 4250) and it came out to about $550.  The 5770 goes for $100 (after rebate) at newegg.  So I would guess you'd be looking at maybe $850-$950 to build that machine?  I'm not going to go through the trouble of researching it, but add $100 for a video card, maybe $150 for a motherboard than can support 2 physical cpus (I think I'm overestimating there) and $160 for the extra cpu.  Round it up to a grand to be safe.

Way more than 1000$.

A Mac version of similar specs is over $6,000, so I just want to see what the difference is.  Obviously the PC will cost less, I just want to know how much less.  The prices for Macs seem to have gone up in recent years as well.  They've always been more expensive, but not THAT much more expensive.

Well, last I remember, the board alone is around 250$ and the CPUs are like, 1000$ each.  Something like that.  Those CPUs are crazy expensive. (and I have one in my computer at work! =P)

So to be safe, like 2500$ for the board + CPU.

The rest of it is probably around 800$ depending what brands you get for RAM/Lights/drives. 

So, probably about half as much for the same functionality.   Par for the course with mac vs. pc pricing...

what exactly is shitty about the home version? If you dont need to connect to a domain but you still need media center why waste money on ultimate? seriously does any one on a home machine use drive encryption?

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 10/13/2011, 08:05 PMApproximately how much would it cost me to build the following Windows machine with these specs:

Prices culled from newegg:

$2884 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117229)  -Two 2.93 Ghz 6-core processors
$115 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139268)  -12 GB DDR3 ECC SDRAM ¹
$55 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148697)  -At least 1 TB hard drive.
$120 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102873)  -ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB (or better)
$200 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132014)  -Phuggin' wicked-ass sound card (full duplex with digital in and out... can be on motherboard) ²
$20 (take your pick) (http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=5&name=CD-DVD-Burners)  -DVD or Blu-ray burner ³
$580 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188070)  -Appropriate motherboard, CPU fans/heat sink, etc
$140 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116992)  -Windows 7 64-bit (not the shitty home version, the full thing) ⁴
$300 and up  -Case, power supply, mouse, and keyboard ⁵

---

$4114 grand total

So Apple is charging you nearly $2000 to put it all together for you.  Is it overpriced?  Perhaps, but not any worse than other workstation manufacturers; a comparably equipped Dell T5500 is $5969, an HP Z600 is $7206 , and a Xi workstation is $5433 (all three rape you on the processors and memory).

¹ - 8GB can't be done unless you want to forgo the speed benefit of DDR3 (requires groups of three).
² - Do you mean two digital ports?  This one has just one in/out port, and I don't know of any cards that have a pair; if there are any, they're probably not any more expensive than this beast.
³ - Bluray's about $70 more.
⁴ - If you want bitlocker (does OSX have such a feature?), add $50 for Win7 Ultimate.
⁵ - The sky's the limit here, but that price will get you a decent aluminum case, smallish power supply, and basic wired mouse/keyboard.

Sure... you're buying Intel processors. That will fuck you every time. Isn't there a comparable AMD version?

Quote from: Opethian on 10/14/2011, 11:29 AMwhat exactly is shitty about the home version? If you dont need to connect to a domain but you still need media center why waste money on ultimate? seriously does any one on a home machine use drive encryption?

You have RAM capacity limits in Home.  iirc.   I have Pro Ultimate, so I didn't look too far into it , lol

AMD ftw. Screw Intel! :D

Quote from: The Old Rover on 10/14/2011, 12:25 PMSure... you're buying Intel processors. That will fuck you every time.

That's only true when you're buying one of their flagship processors, as they're price competitive for equally performing processors and blow AMD's doors off when overclocking capabilities are factored in.

Quote from: The Old Rover on 10/14/2011, 12:25 PMIsn't there a comparable AMD version?

The fastest six core Opteron is $640 for a pair, but it'd get thumped bad by the Xeons listed.  The only way Opterons can compete is with more cores, but those get pricey and lose clock speed - it'd take a pair of 6174s (12 cores at 2.2ghz) at a cost of $2560 to even approach the Xeons.

Thanks for doing that, Necro.  I find the sound card interesting.  It only has one set of inputs/outputs.  You can't have inputs and outputs connected at the same time?  My Mac has two digital TOS-link optical connections, one for in, one for out.  It also has line in and line out but I don't think it has any of that microphone nonsense (who needs that any more?)

The cases never have to be fancy, just good enough to allow for the needed air flow.  And honestly, no internal lights because I am not a complete tool.  The keyboard and mouse can be pretty standard.  Don't need to game on this thing.

And now I'm reminded why I never buy top of the line stuff :lol:  Still running my old cheap intel Q6700 cpu here with two radeon 6850s, plays everything just fine except when I run on the triple screen at 3840x1024, but that's.. excessive :P

In other news, I picked up my friends old iphone 4 on the cheap (since he got the new one of course  :roll:)  and so far, comparing it side by side with my droid x... I'll stick with the droid thank you :D