Here and there i heard and read the pc engine is mostly known for it's good shoot' em ups.
From my experience it certainly felt that way, but what do you think?
The genesis has also a lot of wonderfull shmups like thruxton, the thunder force series,...
The saturn has radiant silvergun which is one of the most loved and lots of others.
In it's late years the Dreamcast still keeps pumping out shmups now and then, trigger heart excelica, ikagura, zerogunner 2, castle shikigami, borderdown,...
It depends on the type of shooter you like. If you prefer bullet hell shooters then the Dreamcast or Saturn is Lord almighty, if you prefer old school shooters then the PC Engine is the king (with Genesis coming in a close second). Personally, I prefer old school shooters so PCE is the definitive platform.
The Saturn, Genesis, PCE all seemed to have a good selection of shooters.
If I had to pick a favorite, I'd choose the Genesis between the three.
A bullet rain shooter like on the dreamcast can be fun but can feel in my opinion a bit soulless sometimes i guess.
I like the feeling like you can avoid any attack when your good in a game.
So, maybe we can count dreamcast or saturn out as the definitive shooter platform??
These 2 types of shmups are not really comparable eh?
I think the fight is between genesis and PCE in my opinion. :)
Naw, X68000 wins this one. :P
catch'em all!! :D
Like GUTS said - PCE for old school shmups, Saturn (or Dreamcast) for bullet hell shmups.
Turbo for me.
PCE without question, and that's not brand loyalty either. While the Genesis did get a few, most were pretty bland and uninspired. I think Lords of Thunder was the only shooter I enjoyed on the Genesis, and hell, it doesn't even compare to the PCE original by a long shot. If the Genesis had gotten games the caliber of Gate of Thunder, Dead Moon, Soldier Blade, or even Blazing Lasers, then it might have something to show for...
The PC Engine has quantity of quality as well as quantity in general.
Whether you only like to play good shooters or like me, you can appreciate less than perfect games, the PCE wins either way.
People are really shortchanging the Genesis here. Thunder Force 2+4, Wings of Wor, Elemental Master, MUSHA, Bio-hazard Battle, Gaiares, and Sagaia are all good shooters, and some of them are just as good as anything the Duo has. If you include CDs and imports, you have even more quality entries, like Robo Aleste and Gleylancer. Yes, the Duo kills it by virtue of outnumbering it by a vast margin, but the Genesis is a more-than-respectable second.
Yeah, the Genesis is underrated in this thread. Here's some awesome Genesis shooters:
Thunder Force 2 - (I don't care what any of you pusses say, I like the overhead stages!)
Thunder Force 3
Thunder Force 4 - (Got balls?)
Gaiares - (I can beat this. Bet you can't).
Elemental Master
MUSHA - (Hell yeah!)
Bio Hazard Battle - (Weird but still great)
Wings of Wor - (Almost qualifies as "bullet hell")
Gleylancer
Robo Aleste - (Sega CD, spiritual successor to MUSHA)
Super Fantasy Zone - (oh HELL yeah!)
Some honorable mentions:
Fire Shark
Task Force Harrier EX
Verytex
Whip Rush
My fave shooters on the TG-16 are:
Gate of Thunder
Lords of Thunder
Aero Blasters
and I guess Blazing Lazers, even though that gets boring really fast.
Quote from: runinruder on 06/29/2007, 05:46 PMPeople are really shortchanging the Genesis here. Thunder Force 2+4, Wings of Wor, Elemental Master, MUSHA, Bio-hazard Battle, Gaiares, and Sagaia are all good shooters, and some of them are just as good as anything the Duo has. If you include CDs and imports, you have even more quality entries, like Robo Aleste and Gleylancer. Yes, the Duo kills it by virtue of outnumbering it by a vast margin, but the Genesis is a more-than-respectable second.
Only one person said anything bad about the Genesis and one other picked it over the PCE. :wink:
Although I haven't played through most Genesis shooters(
or most of any other non-PCE console's), I'd pick it as second best since I prefer shooters from that era and like how the hardware compliments the genre.
Quote from: guest on 06/29/2007, 09:55 PMOnly one person said anything bad about the Genesis
Oh, yeah.
But it was one too many! :wink:
The Genesis was for platformers and sports games. End of story. :P It is not now, nor will it ever be, renowned for its wide selection of quality shooters. Yes, more than respectable second amongst its generation and generations prior, but second nonetheless, and the topic of this thread is about whether or not the PCE is the definitive platform for shmups, not whether the Genesis is or not.
I love Genesis shooters (TF series can massage my e-balls though), I wouldn't place them far behind Turbo ones. I even think SNES shooters are underrated, but it's definitely behind Turbo and Genny.
Quote from: Nödtveidt on 06/30/2007, 12:22 AMThe Genesis was for platformers and sports games. End of story. :P It is not now, nor will it ever be, renowned for its wide selection of quality shooters.
Uh, maybe not in whatever circle you run with, but the Genesis is definitely known as being a great system for shooters. Games like the Thunder Forces, MUSHA, and Gaiares are definitely well known among (and revered by) most fans of old-school shooters.
And while I like Dead Moon, I'm afraid there's no way in hell it's of the same caliber as games like Lightening Force and Wings of Wor. Put forth that assertion in a conversation among knowledgeable shooter players and you'd be considered insane. DM probably wouldn't even crack my top 25 PCE/Turbo shooters and is hardly an exemplary representative of what the system has to offer in the genre.
It's all about the cliques, ain't it? :roll: You took what I said out of context, completely ignoring what I said afterwards. Nice. That irritates the hell outta me. :P Now go back and read it again!
Personally, I found the Thunder Force games to be extremely boring. MUSHA isn't bad, Gaiares is decent but I wouldn't be writing home about it. But I could care less what a bunch of so-called "old-school" geeks think. I much prefer to play Dead Moon over any Genesis shooter I've ever played, and I don't give a damn if the swab-geeks think I'm insane.
Yeah...I'm cranky right now. :P Don't mind me.
I agree with nod and I generally don't hear the Genesis being regarded as a system known for shooters, but like I said I love the it's library for them. When I hear people talking about Genesis' software strengths, it's always platform and sports, or less specifically "action games".
Quote from: Nödtveidt on 06/30/2007, 02:25 AMBut I could care less what a bunch of so-called "old-school" geeks think. I much prefer to play Dead Moon over any Genesis shooter I've ever played, and I don't give a damn if the swab-geeks think I'm insane.
You're the one who used the term "renowned," chief.
If I could only have 3 "shmup consoles" they would be:
1. PCE
2. Saturn
3. PS2
The PCE is the best due to its arcade ports AND exculsive shmups. Next comes the Saturn with all those great arcade shooters from the '90's. It totally lacks any real exclusive shmups though. Finally the PS2 is the system to have for your modern day manic bullet hell arcade shmups.
I like the Dreamcast, but its shooter library is vastly overated. Most of the better shooters on Dreamcast have superior versions on other consoles. Also it completely lacks games made by Cave, which is sadly the only really good shooter developer left these days. :(
The Dreamcast, Genesis, NeoGeo, and PS1 all have some great shooters on them, but they are greatly outclassed by a PCE-Sat-PS2 combo. The Windows PC is also home to some great exclusive shmups such as the "Touho" series (www.shrinemaiden.org (http://www.shrinemaiden.org)).
Quote from: guest on 06/29/2007, 10:28 AMLike GUTS said - PCE for old school shmups, Saturn (or Dreamcast) for bullet hell shmups.
don't forget about the PSX.
What's up with this? Not a single shooter-maniac in the world ever shuts up about the Mega Drive! It's most certainly famous for its shooters. Very famous. I'd say the Mega Drive is most famous for shooters, RPGs second.
Are there any shmups for the Neo geo? I can't remember any off the top of my head...
Quote from: guyjin on 06/30/2007, 02:35 PMAre there any shmups for the Neo geo? I can't remember any off the top of my head...
I thought it had a few decent ones -- the later Aero Blasters, Ghost Pilots, Strikers 1945, and the one I really liked was Last Resort.
I'm sure there's a couple more, though I dunno if anything else is good.
I love PCE & Mega Drive shoot-em-ups. MD is a close second to PCE.
That said, I think that the venerable famicom had a bunch of great shoot-em-ups as well. I speak the truth.
I've yet to play even a decent Famicom shooter. I've tested many.
Quote from: Seldane on 06/30/2007, 08:34 AMWhat's up with this? Not a single shooter-maniac in the world ever shuts up about the Mega Drive! It's most certainly famous for its shooters. Very famous. I'd say the Mega Drive is most famous for shooters, RPGs second.
I guess that the euro Mega Drive got some majorly different releases than the North American Genesis, because over here, its definitely never been known mainly as an RPG console, let alone for shooters(
not that people think that its lacking them either).
It seems to me that the Genesis started out as a console known for arcade ports and went on to gain a wide ranging library dominated by various style action oriented games and sports.
After the PCE CD-ROM took off, regardless of all the great games for the console, its always been known for shooters and RPGs. Not every console gets labelled for being strong in a particular genre, but the PCE did.
I'm pretty sure Seldane is just pulling our chain with the RPG comment because that's a genre the Genesis is commonly regarded as weak in and it's library proves it too :D .
No I'm not pulling anything. I'm serious. And you're the FIRST person I've EVER heard say the Mega Drive is weak for RPGs. FIRST! I'm also going to say: you're crazy. :P
Well I'm serious and you're the FIRST person I've EVER heard say the Genesis is strong for RPGs :mrgreen: .
By weak, I don't mean the quality isn't good, but rather the quantity of RPGs for the console is weak, at least compared to some other consoles of the time. Usually when people mention RPGs for Genesis, it's usually goes "Phantasy Star II - IV and uh..." :D
RPGs and action adventure games, all of which are PERFECT GAMES:
Phantasy Star II
Phantasy Star III
Phantasy Star IV (probably the best real RPG released in the 16-bit era)
The Story of Thor (Oasis-something in America)
Soleil (Crusader of Centy in America) (the best action adventure game ever produced- PERIOD!!)
Landstalker (2nd best action adventure. Um, period too.)
Light Crusader (more of a puzzle game, but still awesome)
Shining in the Holy Ark (better than most 1st person dungeon crawlers!)
Shining Force
Shining Force 2
Traysia
Sword of Vermilion
Wonder Boy in Monster World (original=better)
Ys III: Wanderers From Ys (best console port, all fanboyism aside)
Xin Qi Gai Wang Zi "Beggar Prince" (buggy, but still a DAMN solid game)
Then there's many ÜBER-QUALITY RPGs released for the Mega-CD. These must be counted, but I will not do it because I am lazy/don't care.
These are just some English games I can think of. There are like a million of them in Japanese. I will not be listing those.
Among others the Neo Geo has Pulstar and Blazing Star. They are both quite good, Blazing Star is a must play. Probably one of the few games to really utilize the Neo's power. Give it a try on MAME, its really fun and looks fantastic. NeoGeo also has Viewpoint, a nice looking game that's not for the easily frustrated. :mrgreen:
Quote from: Seldane on 06/30/2007, 07:14 PMRPGs and action adventure games, all of which are PERFECT GAMES:
Phantasy Star II
Phantasy Star III
Phantasy Star IV (probably the best real RPG released in the 16-bit era)
The Story of Thor (Oasis-something in America)
Soleil (Crusader of Centy in America) (the best action adventure game ever produced- PERIOD!!)
Landstalker (2nd best action adventure. Um, period too.)
Light Crusader (more of a puzzle game, but still awesome)
Shining in the Holy Ark (better than most 1st person dungeon crawlers!)
Shining Force
Shining Force 2
Traysia
Sword of Vermilion
Wonder Boy in Monster World (original=better)
Ys III: Wanderers From Ys (best console port, all fanboyism aside)
Xin Qi Gai Wang Zi "Beggar Prince" (buggy, but still a DAMN solid game)
I was referring to standard turn-based RPGs, but I think even with action RPGs it doesn't have many. Also I strongly consider Shining Force and SF2 as strategy RPGs. And I assume you meant Shining in the Darkness instead of Holy Ark, both of which are great games by the way.
The best shooter system, IMO, is probably Saturn. Not just because of RS, but also DoDonPachi, the Gradius, Salamander, and Parodius packs, Thundeforce V, Batsugun, etc.
The DC shooters are nice, but most of them are all from the same era, and have the same bullet hell style. The PCE has a lot of shooters, but they are also from the same era for the most part. The Saturn has the best range of shooter styles, IMO.
Certainly any shooter fan will have all three systems though.
Quote from: SuperDeadite on 06/30/2007, 07:24 PMAmong others the Neo Geo has Pulstar and Blazing Star. They are both quite good, Blazing Star is a must play. Probably one of the few games to really utilize the Neo's power. Give it a try on MAME, its really fun and looks fantastic. NeoGeo also has Viewpoint, a nice looking game that's not for the easily frustrated. :mrgreen:
I can recomend those shmups as well for the neo i have them.
Pulstar:One of the best r-type clones i've ever played beside being pattern based.
Blazeing Star:Pretty good shooter not to hard to beat.. with it's unlimted continues unless your trying to 1cc it.
View Point:One of the hardest shmups i've ever played on my, NeoGeo. Still i keep trying since, it has a great soundtrack beside the way the game is set.
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 06/30/2007, 07:52 PMThe best shooter system, IMO, is probably Saturn. Not just because of RS, but also DoDonPachi, the Gradius, Salamander, and Parodius packs, Thundeforce V, Batsugun, etc.
in that case, it have to be the PS2, since it not just plays its own shooters, but also the whole and huge PSone repertoire!!
Quote from: guyjin on 06/30/2007, 02:35 PMAre there any shmups for the Neo geo? I can't remember any off the top of my head...
Pulstar and Blazing Star are both amazing. They need to be seen to be believed. I like the Areofighters games quite a bit, and also Prehistoric Isle too. Last Resort is very good, although probably too hard to actually play.
Quote from: SuperDeadite on 06/30/2007, 07:13 AMIf I could only have 3 "shmup consoles" they would be:
1. PCE
2. Saturn
3. PS2
PS2? Seriously? Well I guess the Cave factor is huge, but does it make up for the fact that the number of shooters on PS2 isn't very large, and most of them are on DC?
Bump! I can't beleave nobody recomend Twinklestar Sprites for the Neo.
Sure it can be found on the, Saturn and the DC.. but least it's in english for the NeoGeo.
http://youtu.be/qdIVWY0mK48
Still TSS is more fun when it's a 2p match.
I'd like to say that Aero Blasters is not a Neo Geo game.
I'd also like to say that magazines like EGM and GamePro used to BITCH CONSTANTLY back in the day with quips like "Another shooter for the Genesis" or "I wish the Genesis would release a game that wasn't a shooter" (I'm paraphrasing, but they really did bitch about the Genesis having too many shooters, and this was before games like Lightening Force came out).
Lastly I'd like to say that Wings of Wor is vastly underrated. This game kicks ass!
Quote from: SuperDeadite on 06/30/2007, 07:24 PMAmong others the Neo Geo has Pulstar and Blazing Star. They are both quite good, Blazing Star is a must play. NeoGeo also has Viewpoint, a nice looking game that's not for the easily frustrated. :mrgreen:
Yes and yes.
BTW, the ultimate system for SHMUPs is the PC, because if you name it, it's most likely emulated.
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/01/2007, 01:17 AMLastly I'd like to say that Wings of Wor is vastly underrated. This game kicks ass!
Hell yeah, it's definitely one of my favorite shooters. Brilliant soundtrack, LOTS of bullets, and stage 5 is absolutely freakin' unforgettable.
Blazing Star is the greatest horizontal shooter ever created. That game is pure brilliance in every possible way.
i really don't like its to much use of pre-render objects and BGs.
I'd love to play through Blazing Star, but I agree that I don't like pre-rendered graphics like Donkey Kong Country.
Is stage 5 of Wings of Wor the inside of that thingy where it's moving and convulsing and the like? I played through it about 6 months ago and can't remember if that was stage 5 or 6. The boss designs in that game are insane! A train/boat with a head? Awesome!
I love Wings of Wor, but I hated that damn body level and that's the highlite for most people. It looked cool, but it made things way too hard for me to see. The bosses in that game are so awesome.
If the game was exactly like that on the Turbo you'd love that level!
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 07/01/2007, 01:06 AMQuote from: SuperDeadite on 06/30/2007, 07:13 AMIf I could only have 3 "shmup consoles" they would be:
1. PCE
2. Saturn
3. PS2
PS2? Seriously? Well I guess the Cave factor is huge, but does it make up for the fact that the number of shooters on PS2 isn't very large, and most of them are on DC?
Here's the lineup of the two systems:
DC: PS2:
1. Bangai-oh 1. Baldr Force EXE
2. Baldr Force EXE 2. Do Don Pachi Dai Ou Jou
3. Chaos Field 3. Espgaluda
4. GigaWing 4. Ibara
5. GigaWing II 5. Mushihimesama
6. GunSpike/Cannon Spike 6. Psyvariar Complete
7. Gun Bird II 7. Psyvariar II Ultimate Final
8. Ikaruga 8. Homura
9. Last Hope 9. Gradius V
10. Mars Matrix 10. GigaWing Generations
11. Psyvariar 2 11. Twinkle Star Sprites: La Petite Princess (includes the AES version too)
12. Radiligy 12. Raiden III
13. Rainbow Cotton 13. Shikigami No Shiro
14. Rez 14. Shikigami No Shiro II
15. Trizeal 15. Rez
16. Twinkle Star Sprites 16. Trizeal
17. Zero Gunner II 17. Chaos Field: New Order
18. Border Down 18. Radiligy Precious
19. Shikigami No Shiro II 19. R-Type Final
20. Karasu 20. Gunbird 1 & 2
21. Trigger Heart Excelica 21. Strikers 1945 Parts I & II
22. Under Defeat 22. Sol Divide & Dragon Blaze
23. Macross M3 (only certain levels) 23. Star Soldier
24. Sengoku Aces & Sengoku Blade
So as you can see they are about equal in numbers. I'm probably missing some more PS2 games. I'm also not counting things like Metal Slug, Contra Shattered Soldier and all the retro releases like Sega Ages (I can't wait for the Galaxy Force 2 release) and Taito Memories.
And as already stated the PS2 plays PS1 games, so Raiden Project, R-Type Delta, Zanac X Zanac, Gradius Gaiden, Geppy-X, Einhander, and many more are also available.
Quote from: Kitsunexus on 07/01/2007, 01:20 AMBTW, the ultimate system for SHMUPs is the PC, because if you name it, it's most likely emulated.
I can only assume you were joking (?) when you posted this. Good bye.
Quote from: esteban on 07/01/2007, 08:20 AMQuote from: Kitsunexus on 07/01/2007, 01:20 AMBTW, the ultimate system for SHMUPs is the PC, because if you name it, it's most likely emulated.
I can only assume you were joking (?) when you posted this. Good bye.
My thoughts exactly. :p
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/01/2007, 03:24 AMIs stage 5 of Wings of Wor the inside of that thingy where it's moving and convulsing and the like?
Yep, that's the one.
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/01/2007, 03:24 AMThe boss designs in that game are insane! A train/boat with a head? Awesome!
Have you played Choaniki for PCE, Joe? It also has insane bosses (including a train with a head!) and lots of bullets, and it was made by those same NCS/Masaya folks. It's not nearly as awesome as WoW, but few PCE games are.
Yea, i remember an online game store advertised cho aniki for the pc engine as super wings of wor obviously due to its better grafx and sound.
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/01/2007, 06:20 AMIf the game was exactly like that on the Turbo you'd love that level!
Nah, unless they changed the color of the bullets or something. Even some of the technical effects in Terraforming kinda pissed me off, though not as bad.
I read that the same guy who did enemy designs for Chew on Nikki or whatever it's called did the designs for Wins o' Wor. I've never Chewed on Nikki, but I'd like to try one of those games.
ah..now i know about what game you guys talking about. wings of wor..ROLF never heard that title before.
It be called "Gynoug" in Japan yo.
you are telling me. but i really never heard that worsimproved title before. i swear O:)
Quote from: Tatsujin on 07/01/2007, 11:13 PMwings of wor..ROLF never heard that title before.
Same here, haha, seems like we are too focused on the OMG japan titles!
Quote from: elnino on 07/02/2007, 06:31 AMQuote from: Tatsujin on 07/01/2007, 11:13 PMwings of wor..ROLF never heard that title before.
Same here, haha, seems like we are too focused on the OMG japan titles!
sure enough coz we're the well knowers with a good portion of taste.
Ahaa, Gynoug! I had no idea what "Wings of Wor" was until now. :P
Slightly off-topic but oh well...
Tatsujin: you will soon have a new shooter to collect. :D
Quote from: Nödtveidt on 07/07/2007, 08:23 PMSlightly off-topic but oh well...
Tatsujin: you will soon have a new shooter to collect. :D
Two if his list includes platform shooters ;) .
Quote from: Keranu on 07/07/2007, 08:29 PMQuote from: Nödtveidt on 07/07/2007, 08:23 PMSlightly off-topic but oh well...
Tatsujin: you will soon have a new shooter to collect. :D
Two if his list includes platform shooters ;) .
oh what the hell?? PLZ clear me up guys :shock: :D
I assume nod was referring to MindRec's new shooters in development, Xymati (http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=6344) and PC Gunjin (http://forums.magicengine.com/en/viewtopic.php?t=1536).
ahh yes, i see. waiting for those since almost a small infinity :mrgreen:
Me too :) . Frag shows me some of his latest work every now and then on IRC, both games look so awesome.
can't wait to see them in action!! fabulous work, for a small indy :D
Holy ****! Who drew the graphics for PC Gunjin? It looks really really good! :o
wow, I can't wait to get mah paws on those shiznits!
Quote from: Seldane on 07/08/2007, 08:54 AMHoly ****! Who drew the graphics for PC Gunjin? It looks really really good! :o
FraGMarE of course since he's the only graphic artist for MindRec and draws everything :mrgreen: .
Can we expect those games sometime this decade?
I dunno man, he's still working on the first level of Xymati from what I know, which is going to be a really massive level by the way.
I was actually referring to Frozen Utopia's "secret" project, but Xymati is another one...
PC Gunjin isn't a shooter, it's a run-and-gun. It's hard to consider such a game a shooter, it's more of a platformer where you shoot stuff instead of jumping on stuff of hacking stuff to pieces (kinda like Contra). Xymati is definitely a shooter though.
I'd have to say that the Genesis is by far the definitive platform for shooters. As for shmucks, I'm not sure what platform that would be.
As much as I love the PCE, I'd have to say that the Mega Drive/Genesis edges it out in the shooter category, especially if you count run n' gun games like Gunstar Heroes, Alien Soldier, Battle Mania, and Contra Hard Corps.
Battle Mania isn't a run and gun. It would best be described as Forgotten Worlds for girls.
The Genesis isn't the definitive platform for anything but crappy sports games and FMV garbage.
Yeah, lots of FMV on the Genesis. FPS and MMO, too.
i'm going to have to say sega saturn for quality, and sega dreamcast for quantity.
and i'm going to have to say the vcs2600 kicks'em all in the ass! quality and quantity wise.
Quote from: Tatsujin on 07/18/2007, 08:14 PMand i'm going to have to say the vcs2600 kicks'em all in the ass! quality and quantity wise.
Space Jockey is so awesome. It's all about twitch reflexes! I once got a huge score in it and wrote it down, but I don't know where it is now :( .
I bet that my high score in that same game is at least 1 point higher than yours.
Arrr, CRAP! I hate it when people one-up me!
I recently played a not to popular but great horizontal shooter on the msx2 called "space manbow".
It's a shooter from konami and looks very good to for an msx game.
msx might not be the ultimate system for shooters but still worthwhile looking into. :)
Quote from: RCduck7 on 07/19/2007, 04:26 PMmsx might not be the ultimate system for shooters
That's something of an understatement.
Saturn trumps the Genesissy in shmup supremacy.
TG wins cause its the greatest console on earth!
The PC-FX is a waaaaaaaaay better console than the wimpy TG-16 or Duo. Look at the banner at the top of this page. It features the massively popular chicky who represents the PC-FX. I mean god damn! The TG-16 can go to hell. Look at the banner again. Anything TG-16 related is blurry. That means the TG-16 sux. Only the PC-FX has massive gameplay adictability and intense worlds to enthrall players with copious amounts of replayability and genius game design.
Not to mention the PC-FX would smash a Turbo system in a fight.
Pffft... the Turbo wouldn't even show up. Fucking Turbo. What a lump of complete horse crap!
I don't know, I've seen U.S. Turbografx-16 + CD player attachments take down grown men after they take shits :wink:
But the PC-FX could rape an entire army! The PC-FX could have been the most successful console ever, with sales numbers at least 100 times what the PS2 sold. It just didn't feel like it. That's how awesome it was.
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/21/2007, 12:55 AMThe PC-FX could have been the most successful console ever, with sales numbers at least 100 times what the PS2 sold. It just didn't feel like it. That's how awesome it was.
It was too awesome to be released on US shores. Or anywhere in the world other than Japan. The Japanese are clearly more hardcore than us American pussies.
Not releasing the PC-FX in the US was Japan's revenge for us bombing the hell outta them in WW2. Looks like they got the last laugh... and the upper hand!
Those bastards :lol:
It'd be nice to see a list of all PCE and MD shooters - yes, the japanese systems (no run-n-gun, please). Maybe the snes, too, I guess.
For US systems, I've remember thinking the Genesis was a shooter system in the early days, but when it gained more popularity the ratio widened.
Gaiares was the best shooter overall on the MD. Some of my favorite music on the genesis, too.
TF4 had some really cool effects, but the game just lack the fun of TF3. After the wow of the effects wore off, I didn't play it much. I also remember some of the scratchy audio got annoying after a while. The best areas were the ocean/mountain level and the space station/city level (desert level was nice), then the game starts to gets blah after that.
TF3.... <3!
Thunder Force 3 is probably my favorite to play, even though it is extremely easy for me. I like Thunder Force 4 a lot, but it does get a bit fatiguing. So does Thunder Force 5, which was less fun than part 4. It just tried to be too "hardcore". I really, really enjoy Thunder Force 2. It had the perfect difficulty level. And yes, I enjoy the overhead stages.
For a list (and descriptions) of all the shooters for the Genesis/Mega Drive (no run and guns), CLICK HERE. (http://www.sega-16.com/Genre%20Spotlight-%20Shmups%20Extravaganza.php)
I don't know of any similar lists for the PCE or SNES.
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/21/2007, 04:04 PMI don't know of any similar lists for the PCE or SNES.
That's because such a list for the PCE would take approximately 6 millenia to compile at the same level of detail that the SEGA-16 Genesis list has.
So you're saying that fans of the TG-16 and PCE are just lazy?
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/21/2007, 04:04 PMFor a list (and descriptions) of all the shooters for the Genesis/Mega Drive (no run and guns), CLICK HERE. (http://www.sega-16.com/Genre%20Spotlight-%20Shmups%20Extravaganza.php)
Man, screw that list for dissing Insector X and saying how the arcade version is much better (WTF?). Gadget Twins looks awesome though.
ya, screw that shit
Yeah, fuck it all to hell. Let's go murder their family for daring to type such a list! I mean, HOW DARE THEY!
Quote from: TurboXray on 07/21/2007, 01:34 PMIt'd be nice to see a list of all PCE and MD shooters - yes, the japanese systems (no run-n-gun, please). Maybe the snes, too, I guess.
for jap. PCE shmups i only can help out with my unoffical list which you people already know about, i guess.
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/21/2007, 05:31 PMSo you're saying that fans of the TG-16 and PCE are just lazy?
No, we're saying that Mr. Horowitz is one of the most productive, tireless workhorses in the goddam world!
after reading all those pre-reviews, once again i'm glad to be a pce shmuper. will not mean i didn't know a lot of those shmups. almost played or owned most of them in the past. but the poor quality/quantity ration compared to the PCE library is proven once again.
Quote from: esteban on 07/22/2007, 07:11 AMQuote from: Joe Redifer on 07/21/2007, 05:31 PMSo you're saying that fans of the TG-16 and PCE are just lazy?
No, we're saying that Mr. Horowitz is one of the most productive, tireless workhorses in the goddam world!
Unforunately, he also can't put his fanboyism behind him enough to give reasonably fair opinions on inter-console issues. His articles are like the Sega Genesis version of what I've been led to believe that Fox News(or CNN?) is.
I think that I counted 77 totles in that list. Although I don't personally count Afterburner/Galaxy Force-type games as shmups and wouldn't count 32X games, I would've included Monster Lair.
Quote from: guest on 07/22/2007, 01:04 PMI think that I counted 77 totles in that list. Although I don't personally count Afterburner/Galaxy Force-type games as shmups and wouldn't count 32X games, I would've included Monster Lair.
I glanced at PCECP.COM and counted 140 PCE shooters. Some of those are probably US/Japan duplicates, so maybe 110-120 total?
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/21/2007, 04:04 PMThunder Force 3 is probably my favorite to play, even though it is extremely easy for me. I like Thunder Force 4 a lot, but it does get a bit fatiguing. So does Thunder Force 5, which was less fun than part 4. It just tried to be too "hardcore". I really, really enjoy Thunder Force 2. It had the perfect difficulty level. And yes, I enjoy the overhead stages.
For a list (and descriptions) of all the shooters for the Genesis/Mega Drive (no run and guns), CLICK HERE. (http://www.sega-16.com/Genre%20Spotlight-%20Shmups%20Extravaganza.php)
I don't know of any similar lists for the PCE or SNES.
Thunder Force 3 happens to be one of my favorites to... and thruxton...
Propably also a lot to do with the fond memories i had on them.
I'm glad i made lots of good choices when i bought games as a kid as otherwise i might say different.
Anyways, i only just discovered (a week ago) thunder force 3 was released on the snes named "thunder spirits".
Not sure it was called that way in all regions though.
Played it on my snes emulator.
It's not exactly a straight port from the genesis version, it is more difficult from my experience.
Backgrounds are a bit different and maybe more detailed but it seems as a result end bosses seem to stand out a bit less, but that's maybe something to do with the fact that the first boss is yellow instead of red.
The music is a bit smoother but doesn't come true to be as emotional as the genesis version to.
Haven't put that much playtime in the snes version but it seems i still prefer the genesis version.
Quote from: RCduck7 on 07/22/2007, 02:50 PMQuote from: Joe Redifer on 07/21/2007, 04:04 PMThunder Force 3 is probably my favorite to play, even though it is extremely easy for me. I like Thunder Force 4 a lot, but it does get a bit fatiguing. So does Thunder Force 5, which was less fun than part 4. It just tried to be too "hardcore". I really, really enjoy Thunder Force 2. It had the perfect difficulty level. And yes, I enjoy the overhead stages.
For a list (and descriptions) of all the shooters for the Genesis/Mega Drive (no run and guns), CLICK HERE. (http://www.sega-16.com/Genre%20Spotlight-%20Shmups%20Extravaganza.php)
I don't know of any similar lists for the PCE or SNES.
Thunder Force 3 happens to be one of my favorites to... and thruxton...
Propably also a lot to do with the fond memories i had on them.
I'm glad i made lots of good choices when i bought games as a kid as otherwise i might say different.
Anyways, i only just discovered (a week ago) thunder force 3 was released on the snes named "thunder spirits".
Not sure it was called that way in all regions though.
Played it on my snes emulator.
It's not exactly a straight port from the genesis version, it is more difficult from my experience.
Backgrounds are a bit different and maybe more detailed but it seems as a result end bosses seem to stand out a bit less, but that's maybe something to do with the fact that the first boss is yellow instead of red.
The music is a bit smoother but doesn't come true to be as emotional as the genesis version to.
Haven't put that much playtime in the snes version but it seems i still prefer the genesis version.
Its a port of the arcade version of TFIII, which was made after the Genesis game.
Thunder Spirits is an awful port.
Quote from: nat on 07/22/2007, 02:18 PMQuote from: guest on 07/22/2007, 01:04 PMI think that I counted 77 totles in that list. Although I don't personally count Afterburner/Galaxy Force-type games as shmups and wouldn't count 32X games, I would've included Monster Lair.
I glanced at PCECP.COM and counted 140 PCE shooters. Some of those are probably US/Japan duplicates, so maybe 110-120 total?
109 :)
Quote from: Tatsujin on 07/22/2007, 08:33 PMQuote from: nat on 07/22/2007, 02:18 PMQuote from: guest on 07/22/2007, 01:04 PMI think that I counted 77 totles in that list. Although I don't personally count Afterburner/Galaxy Force-type games as shmups and wouldn't count 32X games, I would've included Monster Lair.
I glanced at PCECP.COM and counted 140 PCE shooters. Some of those are probably US/Japan duplicates, so maybe 110-120 total?
109 :)
#-o Of course, should have just looked at your signature.
Quote from: Tatsujin on 07/22/2007, 08:02 AMafter reading all those pre-reviews, once again i'm glad to be a pce shmuper. will not mean i didn't know a lot of those shmups. almost played or owned most of them in the past. but the poor quality/quantity ration compared to the PCE library is proven once again.
You are obviously a fanboy. Why do you care if the PCE library of shooters is superior? Why not just enjoy all of the good shooters on both systems? But you limit yourself to only the PCE? If you have indeed played most of the Genesis/Mega Drive shooters, you'd know that the quality of quite a few of them are sky high. Every game can't be a winner no matter the console, but I have a feeling that if the same games were on the PCE in the same exact form (and were never on the Mega Drive), you'd like them more than you do since they are on the Mega Drive.
I never even gave this issue a thought until this thread popped up.
Games like Zaxxon absolutely deserve to be on Sega-16's list. And the games like After Burner and whatnot were on a page called "Best of the rest" or similar. He wasn't trying to pile them with the other shooters. And as far as the CNN/FOX comment goes, it's usually people who are biased to one side who find bias faults in other places since they feel their views are being under-represented.
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/22/2007, 09:33 PMIf you have indeed played most of the Genesis/Mega Drive shooters, you'd know that the quality of quite a few of them are sky high.
yeah, exactly. and exactly those "quite a few" ones i kept to play or looking for to buy. my space is limited. i focused to collect any pc engine related things, software in the first place. and yes, even the MD/genny has some really nice shooter (eliminate down, gley lancer, TFIII, Musha aleste, gynoug..) the PCEs library is still superior!
may be i can call my self a PCE fanboy, yes. but there're quite a lot good reason for.
i love the SFC as well the MD in 2nd and 3rd place. but the winner overall is decided a long long time ago.
You can list all the Thunder Forces and Mushas you want, but all the Genesis needs is Insector X to be the best shooter console of all time 8) .
Quote from: RCduck7 on 07/22/2007, 02:50 PMQuote from: Joe Redifer on 07/21/2007, 04:04 PMThunder Force 3 is probably my favorite to play, even though it is extremely easy for me. I like Thunder Force 4 a lot, but it does get a bit fatiguing. So does Thunder Force 5, which was less fun than part 4. It just tried to be too "hardcore". I really, really enjoy Thunder Force 2. It had the perfect difficulty level. And yes, I enjoy the overhead stages.
For a list (and descriptions) of all the shooters for the Genesis/Mega Drive (no run and guns), CLICK HERE. (http://www.sega-16.com/Genre%20Spotlight-%20Shmups%20Extravaganza.php)
I don't know of any similar lists for the PCE or SNES.
Thunder Force 3 happens to be one of my favorites to... and thruxton...
Propably also a lot to do with the fond memories i had on them.
I'm glad i made lots of good choices when i bought games as a kid as otherwise i might say different.
Anyways, i only just discovered (a week ago) thunder force 3 was released on the snes named "thunder spirits".
Not sure it was called that way in all regions though.
Played it on my snes emulator.
It's not exactly a straight port from the genesis version, it is more difficult from my experience.
Backgrounds are a bit different and maybe more detailed but it seems as a result end bosses seem to stand out a bit less, but that's maybe something to do with the fact that the first boss is yellow instead of red.
The music is a bit smoother but doesn't come true to be as emotional as the genesis version to.
Haven't put that much playtime in the snes version but it seems i still prefer the genesis version.
Yeah, that was a port of the Arcade version of TF3 - though they added or replaced some additional stuff. Either way, whatever team did the port, did a really shoddy job. The music is lacking, but the worst part is the game shutters every time you shoot. At first I thought this was an emulation issue, but after buying the cart for $2 and playing it on the snes - I found out it was for real!
Quote from: Keranu on 07/23/2007, 12:30 AMYou can list all the Thunder Forces and Mushas you want, but all the Genesis needs is Insector X to be the best shooter console of all time 8) .
now that's one of those typical keranu sentences. the cheesier the game the better it is!! :mrgreen:
;)
(https://web.archive.org/web/20070210070342im_/http://www.nantwichshow.co.uk/images/cheese_hall.jpg)
Keranu, I rented and beat Genesis Insector X the first time I played it. I'm not even sure if I used a continue or not. What does this game have that fascinates you so? I'll agree that it is better than the arcade, though. The arcade seemed almost unplayable to me.
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/22/2007, 09:33 PMQuote from: Tatsujin on 07/22/2007, 08:02 AMafter reading all those pre-reviews, once again i'm glad to be a pce shmuper. will not mean i didn't know a lot of those shmups. almost played or owned most of them in the past. but the poor quality/quantity ration compared to the PCE library is proven once again.
You are obviously a fanboy. Why do you care if the PCE library of shooters is superior? Why not just enjoy all of the good shooters on both systems? But you limit yourself to only the PCE? If you have indeed played most of the Genesis/Mega Drive shooters, you'd know that the quality of quite a few of them are sky high. Every game can't be a winner no matter the console, but I have a feeling that if the same games were on the PCE in the same exact form (and were never on the Mega Drive), you'd like them more than you do since they are on the Mega Drive.
I never even gave this issue a thought until this thread popped up.
Games like Zaxxon absolutely deserve to be on Sega-16's list. And the games like After Burner and whatnot were on a page called "Best of the rest" or similar. He wasn't trying to pile them with the other shooters. And as far as the CNN/FOX comment goes, it's usually people who are biased to one side who find bias faults in other places since they feel their views are being under-represented.
I never said that those misc shooting like games
shouldn't be on the list, just that I don't count them as shmups myself. But like I said, I'd count a game like Monster Lair as a shooter'ish enough, which means that by my personal standards the MD probably has more shootery games and if counting the Afterburner types, so does the PCE.
I understand how biased people can feel, but I've read some clear cut biased articles of
his, mainly the earlier ones. But it may have had more to do with ignorance, since there are some pretty out there comments.
I personally love the Genesis and have been playing it longer than the TG-16 and definitely do not assume that anything on both MD & PCE must always be better on PCE since its 'of course' better hardware.
Here are some specific comments I came across recently in the Dungeon Explorer comparison-
"After spending some time with the two of them, however, it becomes evident that the limits of the TurboGrafx hardware kept the game from reaching its full potential."
"Graphics: The first difference you're likely to notice, and it's where the Sega CD's better hardware is most apparent."
"Where the Sega CD blows the Turbo out of the water here is via its support of s-video. If you're lucky enough to have a Genesis modded for such output, there is simply no comparison. The quality of the visuals is so much better than through the Turbo's RF or composite cable that it's an easy choice."Other than the occasional comment like that, some of KH's articles(
like other fanboy's), seem to stretch to favor the Genesis and diminish the competition. From recent articles I've read, its not usually reduced to a simple line or so, but here's one crazy knock against DE-
"You are forced to resort to copying long passwords that can be a pain to manage. The longer a password, the greater the chance of messing it up, thereby losing your game forever."But at least he usually mentions being a 'Sega nut' in some articles, so you know where he's coming from. Where as there are many losers out there stating things more as fact.
And its still far from the true crazies calling Nintendo and/or SNES 'evil' and/or 'the enemy'. Not that haven't read some pretty crazy stuff on these boards as well. :wink:
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/23/2007, 01:23 AMKeranu, I rented and beat Genesis Insector X the first time I played it. I'm not even sure if I used a continue or not. What does this game have that fascinates you so? I'll agree that it is better than the arcade, though. The arcade seemed almost unplayable to me.
CHEEEEZ. :dance:
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/23/2007, 01:23 AMKeranu, I rented and beat Genesis Insector X the first time I played it. I'm not even sure if I used a continue or not. What does this game have that fascinates you so? I'll agree that it is better than the arcade, though. The arcade seemed almost unplayable to me.
Well this article (http://lazerdorks.org/stunningarticles/keranu_insectorx/index.html) I wrote sorta explains my love for it, but it is a defensive article. Insector X was a game I grew up with and only learned to fully love just some years ago after replaying it from years. However, here is a list of what attracts me to the game:
- MUSIC!
- Sound effects
- Sage's Creation name
- Insects (because they rule)
- Bosses (the designs are really incredible)
- Graphics
- Weapon system (nice and simple and doesn't have you going through a list of gazillion weapons like Thunder Force)
- The joy of killing a bunch of those littles nats and then dodging the bullets that torpedo at you when they die
- Kait
- Levels (stage 3 was my favorite with how fly through a city with gigantic clocks and towers and move into a sewer system)
- Relaxing ending
- The awesome title screen!
- Box and instruction art
- Kait's obsessive compulsive nature of how he has to position himself just right before moving onto the next part of a stage
Interesting. I will get this game if I ever see it (I would have, anyway). But a couple things:
-The large majority of Genesis games at this time did indeed have parallax scrolling. So Insector X was the odd man out. However I believe it was trying to be more faithful to the arcade version, and that's why it didn't have it.
-I think the game does indeed use two background layers... they just both scroll at the same exact speed. Sometimes if you look closely, you can see them wobble apart ever-so-slightly. I guess it is easier to do this than to create special blocks in the background at edges and stuff. Kind of like Photoshop layers... It's easier to insert a graphic behind the main layer and call it a day than it is to work on one layer and try to create the graphics on one level. Hard to explain.
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/23/2007, 04:35 AMHard to explain.
not that hard. i could've seen that effect on other games as well. but then again my question was "why the hell they spending effort on creating TWO LAYERS, but do scroll them on the exact same speed??" fools!!
I can understand using a still bg with a scrolling layer in front...
I'm guessing that it was just an easier way to layout the graphics and they either had no plans to program in seperate scrolling or didn't get to finish it.
Quote from: guest on 07/23/2007, 08:23 AMand they either had no plans to program in seperate scrolling or didn't get to finish it.
oh yes, that dumb ass crew. i'm not a progammer nor coder, but if you work is already done to that point, it probably would take you about further 10 minutes to finish a beautiful and nice looking 2-layer parallax scrolling.
Quote from: Tatsujin on 07/23/2007, 09:15 AMoh yes, that dumb ass crew. i'm not a progammer nor coder, but if you work is already done to that point, it probably would take you about further 10 minutes to finish a beautiful and nice looking 2-layer parallax scrolling.
Emphasis added to prove your own comment. ;)
Quote from: Nödtveidt on 07/23/2007, 10:18 AMQuote from: Tatsujin on 07/23/2007, 09:15 AMoh yes, that dumb ass crew. i'm not a progammer nor coder, but if you work is already done to that point, it probably would take you about further 10 minutes to finish a beautiful and nice looking 2-layer parallax scrolling.
Emphasis added to prove your own comment. ;)
but say it isn't true, say it!! :mrgreen:
I know of only two reasons for combining two layers as a single (same scroll speed and what not).
1) It'll increase the color count per tile from 16 to 31(not 32) if overlaid correctly, but this cost double the space for tiles. Sega actually mentions this in there SEGACD dev manual for when doing FMV.
2) You can add graphic effects to other tiles without having a whole new set of tiles - this saves space. Think of them as effects tiles like cracks or grass or other such detail like clipping a tile in an unusual place to make it look for natural and less tile-y. Final Fantasy 1 remake for GBA does this, but it does this with 3 layers.
Quote from: Tatsujin on 07/23/2007, 12:00 PMbut say it isn't true, say it!! :mrgreen:
It isn't true, actually. :) The point I was making is that since you are not a programmer or a coder, you wouldn't know what kind of work it would involve. ;) Parallax adds a whole new level of graphical difficulty, especially if the original content wasn't designed to have independent scrolls. For starters, you have to make sure you have enough graphics to keep the display fluid and not "tear" when the end of the map is reached. And that's just the beginning of your problems! :D
Actually all you'd have to do is make layer two scroll more slowly. Since it is moving slower, it won't run out of graphics.
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/23/2007, 04:35 AMInteresting. I will get this game if I ever see it (I would have, anyway). But a couple things:
-The large majority of Genesis games at this time did indeed have parallax scrolling. So Insector X was the odd man out. However I believe it was trying to be more faithful to the arcade version, and that's why it didn't have it.
I understand a lot of Genesis games had parallax back then, but my point was more that parallax at that time was just starting to get really common, so Insector X wasn't in the worst time slot to not have parallax. If it was made in like 1993, then it would've been less forgiving. But yeah I agree with you, it was probably just because the arcade version didn't have parallax (the backgrounds look nearly the same).
Quote from: Joe-I think the game does indeed use two background layers... they just both scroll at the same exact speed. Sometimes if you look closely, you can see them wobble apart ever-so-slightly. I guess it is easier to do this than to create special blocks in the background at edges and stuff. Kind of like Photoshop layers... It's easier to insert a graphic behind the main layer and call it a day than it is to work on one layer and try to create the graphics on one level. Hard to explain.
Wow, thanks for telling me this! I never noticed this before and now I am definitely going to have to keep my eye on this next time I play!
Also I'd just like to comment that the arcade version of Insector X is pretty good too. Each version has it's pros: the arcade version has extra backgrounds, a slightly better weapon system, and lots more challenge while the Genesis version has cooler sprites (though some may prefer the cutesy cartoony look of the arcade, I myself definitely prefer the awesome realistic mechanical insect designs!), way better music, and better sound effects.
Not to derail this riveting Insector X commentary, but what do you guys think of Terra Cresta II? I got a copy today in the mail and it seems pretty cool so far. I played through the third level or something and the graphics just keep getting better. The tunes are really good too, but the instruments used have an NES-like quality to them. But it works.
For someone who's played through, how does the game play out overall? I'm intrigued with the ability of designing my own craft formations but I'm not quite sure what to do with it yet.
terra creast II is nice. what did you pay for?
$70
Good price? I seem to remember this game went for like $200 a couple of years ago.
$200? really?
$70 seems to be an OK price. bought mine for about $55 @ super potato 2y ago.
yeah it was eBay i saw those high prices... back in the day. still, a typical BIN price for it is like $100+ even today.
damn ebay :x