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Messages - Michirin9801

#1
Quote from: ParanoiaDragon on 10/08/2017, 03:03 AMHarmony of Dissonance does sound like it uses more instruments, though, that makes me think of Impossamole, which also seemed to use more instruments somehow.  I don't know if whoever did the music on that one somehow overlapped multiple sounds on one channel or what, or maybe it's just my imagination.
There are a few tricks to cram more than one "instrument" on a single channel, for example, you can take two different waveforms, half their heights and add the results together, the resulting waveform would be those two waveforms playing the same note together on the same channel at half the volume, but that of course means that they'll also be tuned the same and have the same pan and volume envelope, so they won't exactly sound like two instruments... But that's not all you can do, if you also half the length of one of the waveforms and repeat it you can have the two waveforms playing at an octave apart! Granted, that also means that it will be playing at half the sample rate, but still...

This is better explained in this image I've made a long time ago:
IMG
(H stands for Height and L for Length)

And here's an example of me using this trick to put 2 square waves on the same channel and changing the octave of one of them by changing the waveform:This can be pretty useful if you need two notes an octave apart... It will never sound as good as just putting two instruments an octave apart on two different channels, but since extra channels are at a premium on the PC engine... I think you get the idea...

And no this trick will not do chords, notes can only be offset by an octave, if you want to put a chord on a single channel you'll have to resort to either arpeggios or samples, but I generally dislike arpeggios and samples take up too much CPU time and memory, but speaking of samples, that's another way of playing two instruments on the same channel!

A sample can be basically anything you can fit within the available memory, and Sunsoft's Batman has proved two things on the PCE, that you can loop samples, and that if you use too many samples at once, making an interesting game is barely feasible, (at least at the time and with their code)

So, if you're gonna do sampled percussion for example, you can have not just a sample for each of the drums, hats and cymbals, but also some samples for drums and hats/cymbals playing together, which takes up more memory, but is very much doable! Here's the thing though, the most CPU-friendly frequencies for PCM samples are 7KHz and 16KHz, and hats and cymbals sound rubbish at 7KHz, so most of the games that use sampled drums at 7KHz either don't have hats or do them with white noise, which you can't play together with a sample... I reckon a lot of them do have sampled crashes though... So if you're gonna do them, do them at 16KHz, and pray that the coder doesn't mind having half the CPU time to code the rest of the game >w>';

You could also have sampled chords, but you'd need a different sample not only for the different chord notes, but for the different types of chords, so if you were to do it that way, your compositions would have to be highly pre-meditated...

I'm sure there are more ways to fiddle around with samples, I mean, there's some software-mixing tricks that I'm not gonna get into because I'm not a coder, I'm just an artist, but going back to the wavetable synth now, another trick you can do to fit more than one instrument on the same channel is simply clever timing of the instruments! Basically, you're not gonna play two instruments on the same channel at the same time, but the channel will indeed play two instruments, and alternate between the two at key times, I like to use this trick to do reverb on a single channel, but that only works when I'm playing a lot of notes in quick succession, I can pick the time halfway in between two of the notes to reverberate the note previous to the last one by playing it again at a lower volume and panned differently, like this:I've also used a bit of a more extreme version of this trick in my Hatsune Miku Po Pi Po cover, that song has an instrument that updates at 480Hz as opposed to the usual 60Hz, which is the Kick, but here's the thing, that Kick is playing on the same channel as the Bass!
The way I did is is that for 16 480Hz ticks (2 60Hz ticks) an overdriven sine wave will play and lower its pitch by 4 notes on every 480Hz tick, and on the very next tick after that it switches to the bass if the bass is playing, and switches off the channel if the bass is not playing...
Here's a little sample of it:
#2
General Gaming / Re: Secret of Mana Remake
08/31/2017, 02:02 AM
Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 08/31/2017, 12:28 AM
Quote*list of games*
A lot of the games you mentioned are not really that much better looking than Zelda 2, if at all.   You even named things I mentioned.   I think if you stick them side by side, you will find that they aren't really any better.

https://youtu.be/8AxUqp9XIM0

This game is awesome.

I also think Skate or Die 2's ramp level is some of the most impressive animation the NES has ever witnessed.   

https://youtu.be/HMDMde6BNdc
Yeah, those games look really friggin' good...
Here, I put together an image with some sprites side-by-side with Link's sprite from Zelda 2:
IMG

Yeah, I do think all of those (and more which I haven't bothered to add) look better than Link's sprite, and most of the games they're a part of I think look much better than Zelda 2 in general...

Just showing the sprites in here makes it look like there isn't much of a difference, most of those sprites are just 3 colours anyway, but the thing about sprites on the NES is that you can't really make them THAT much better without tiling them just right so that you can use more than one palette, or superimposing tricks, which lead to flicker (but some of these games do use superimposing sprites to get more colour and detail)
Those tricks are more worth it on the Game Boy Color where you could fill more of the screen real estate with sprites...

My issue with Zelda 2's graphics has mostly to do with the backgrounds, Zelda 2's sprites aren't "bad", but on top of the backgrounds, which are pretty bad, well, let's just say that the 'badness' of the BGs rubs off on the sprites...

Most of these other games have really good BGs for the NES, particularly the Sunsoft ones, also major props to Shatterhand...

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 08/31/2017, 12:28 AM
QuoteYes, you could crouch and shoot in Metroid 2, which is a different, MUCH better game than Metroid 1 in my opinion... Also, the Game Boy could display 160 pixels worth of sprites in a horizontal line without flickering (10 sprites which can be as wide as 16 pixels each) which btw, is the whole horizontal resolution of the Game Boy, whereas the NES could only display 64 pixels worth of sprites in a horizontal line without flickering (8 sprites which can be as wide as 8 pixels only) so basically you can only have a 16 pixel wide character and 3 16 pixel wide enemies on the same horizontal line at a time...
Samus's "crouching" sprite on the NES game was the first frame of her Jumping animation, when you're "crouching" after you get hit is because you're landing from your knock-back jump animation, so yeah, they could have recycled it in order to make a crouching sprite and allowed you to crouch and shoot to make the game less cheap, but of course they didn't...
I don't know why you can't crouch in Metroid.  It's not a flicker issue.  It's likely a "oh we didn't think of that" issue with the controls and transitioning to morphball.   Welcome to the formative years of the series' that made Nintendo famous.


Quoteand the only thing that "not making a bigger shot sprite" does is save up on a couple of tiles worth of memory, you say it would "look stupid" without even knowing what it could look like...
If they just drew an 8 x 24 sprite which looked like a wave and palette-swapped it, like they already palette-swap the wave beam, it would hardly cause any more flickering than a single 8 x 8 sprite waving around, and it would move faster and hit your enemies more consistently...
Now, if they drew a giant wavy sprite for Metroid.... you realize the wave beam would no longer work like it does, right?  The sine-wave pattern is part of using it.   You would lose the challenge of timing and aiming it and at that point they might as well just let you shoot some big retarded looking Turrican beam from in front of you.  gross

I know what a bigger sprite might look like for a shot.   Do you think it's hard to imagine a bigger sprite?   It's not.  It's proportionate to Samus.   

I highly doubt they made Samus start with a cripplecannon for flicker reasons.  They did it to make the initial game harder, and the progression more challenging.    Case in point:  Link shoots a goddamn projectile across the screen.

Kid Icarus has the same kind of thing with arrow range.  It makes the game what it is. 
I feel obligated to respect Metroid for what it pretty much pioneered, but it's not a well-designed game, not even close...
You need to look no further than the likes of Castlevania, Ninja Gaiden, Contra, Batman and even the Mario games, to see what a good challenge feels like on the NES, one where you're not forced to grind for health pickups for half an hour before you can even bother to try again every single time because the game is too cheap to re-spawn you with more than 30 HP, where you can always consistently hit your enemies instead of the bullets missing half the time, or simply not reaching them, or having enemies which are too short for you to hit...
None of those games do that, all of them have their enemies in places where you can easily dispatch them if you're good enough, the challenge doesn't come from not being able to do basic things, it comes from trying to do them well while taking into account tricky enemy and platform placement...

Metroid 2 is like night and day in comparison, it fixed almost everything that was wrong with the original, you can not only duck and shoot, but also jump and shoot downwards! The map layouts are also MUCH more interesting than corridors and shafts which look the same, the only things Metroid 2 lacks to make it truly great are colour and a map system... I can see why some people take issue with the cramped screen too, but that wasn't an issue to me...

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 08/31/2017, 12:28 AM
QuoteThe problem is that they've put the hardest part of the game right at the beginning, and after you get past it, hardly anything is nearly as much of a challenge anymore, and you no longer being a "walking pudding container" certainly contributes to that...
That's how a lot of old RPGs work.   Once you grind out a bit, you only tend to die when you do something stupid.
Although many of the RPGs I like do require an early-game grind, they're never as aggravating as the beginning of Adventure of Link...

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 08/31/2017, 12:28 AM
QuoteMaybe your problem isn't that you "fail to understand" anything, perhaps I haven't worded myself the best in there, what I think your problem is either that you think in absolutes, or you think that I think in absolutes, that I see no exceptions, that everything that I say is set in stone... It's not, there's no black and white, everything is a gradient, exceptions exist, and not everything needs to be questioned, especially not when the answer is either unimportant, or hiding in plain sight...
You speak in adverb laden absolute-esque statements.   If you have a point, you should just get it out there instead of expecting people to fill in the dots.   Everyone is going to fill them in different.
Even though I state time and time again that it's all my opinion and that I don't expect you (or anyone) to agree, and respect yours, as well as that there are exceptions...

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 08/31/2017, 12:28 AMCan you really not play emulated crap on your 3DS?

I have an AceKard and never had a problem.   Did that change?  I haven't done it in awhile.
I have a DStwo, it's a DS flashcart so it can't take advantage of the 3DS's hardware, so I can only emulate things which work fine on the original DS...
Game Boy/Colour, Game Gear and Master System work A-OK, NES and PCE work somewhat OK, except the DS's resolution is lower so it has to crush the image in order to fit it on the screen so it's not ideal, also, PCE has pretty awful sound emulation (only wavetables with only 4 volume levels and at 4 bit depth, no samples, and the CD ADPCM is too quiet) and there are some graphical issues like no line-interruption (some background detail is lost in games like Magical Chase and Power Drift)

The DStwo has a dedicated GBA emulator that only it can run, but it kinda sucks, it runs at 30fps, I can play Puyo Pop, Final Fight One and KoF EX2 okay, but it's just unusable for any serious play... I tried ALTTP and Final Fantasy IV at it, they worked fine, but it's just not worth it with such a gimped emulation, some sections of FF4 were running at like, 5fps? Unacceptable...

Anything else is a no-go, yes there are emulators for more systems for the DS, but I've tried them, and they're not worth it... I hear good things about Neo Geo emulation on the DS, which I haven't tried yet, but if the system can't even do SNES or MD justice, I don't see Neo Geo being any better...

There's also the issue of the SMS/GG and the PCE emulator not being able to be on the same SD card without corrupting it, I've had issues with that time and time again, so to have to pick between one of my favourite systems with poor emulation and 2 systems I barely care about with decent emulation, I'll pick the former, I mean, at least I can play New Adventure Island on-the-go at full speed, only missing a little bit of detail and the drums...

My plan is to use the Homebrew Launcher, which works just like the Homebrew Channel on the Wii, except on the 3DS, but only when Nintendo stops updating the 3DS, I don't wanna run the risk of bricking my system, I can't afford another one after all...
There's already SNES and GBA emulators for the 3DS, and even a version of RetroArch for it (which hopefully supports PC engine because I could really use a decent PCE emulation on-the-go)
Then, and only then, will I play the rest of the SNES RPGs which I'm still missing, I have a much better time with RPGs on handhelds after all...
#3
Quote from: Digi.k on 04/19/2017, 01:50 PMLegend of Xanadu

IMG
♥~Simply Gorgeous~♥
#4
Quote from: OldRover on 05/15/2017, 10:33 PMThe next stage is certainly loaded with parallax...
~YAAAAYYYYY~
IMG
#5
Looks nice but... Umm... Those are animated tiles right? I think they could look a bit better...
Uhh, are these tiles final? Would you mind if I gave it a shot at making a better animation within the same amount of frames? I'll do it for free, I'm not asking for anything!

Here's a couple of examples of my pixel art for the Mega Drive:
IMG
IMG

For the GBC:
IMG

And one with only 16 colours:
16_color_sunset_by_michiharuruko-d8ixh2q.png
#6
Quote from: kazekirifx on 04/18/2017, 01:41 AMDoes Cho Ren Sha 68k not count as a bullet hell? I'd say it's pretty close at least. The game actually reminds me a bit of FZK.
Close enough...

Quote from: fragmare on 04/18/2017, 02:43 PMIMG

Me waiting for somebody to code Xymati lol
That's pretty sad actually >w>
#8
Quote from: elmer on 04/08/2017, 10:36 PM
Quote from: Michirin9801 on 04/08/2017, 12:06 AMI did a quick and dirty edit here of just that, it could be better and less dithery if I put more time into it but here's what I got:
IMG
Wow, that's much nicer that I expected! Great job!  :dance:

I was going to complain about the resolution for a while, and then I realized that you'd drawn it in 2x2 pixels.  =D>

OK ... so it that graphic can look that good (there's a small loss in the outline shape, but nothing significant, and the colors do make up for it IMHO), then a lo-res port would probably be possible.

The next issue is screen-overdraw.

That's where touko is pointing out that 64 sprites are nowhere near enough for the overdraw that's going on in FZK.

I agree ... I really can't see how to make that game work on a PCE, even with dynamic drawing into the background, without causing a ton of flicker.

As he said ... even the SGX would be pushed at times (IMHO), but in the case of the SGX, we'd use the 2nd background plane to create those full-screen bomb effects, which would save the extra SGX sprites for other things ... like some of the parallax or layered enemies.

But you really don't seem to like the SGX proposal.

No problem ... I understand that I'm one of the few people that really love that PCE variant.

I just can't see how you can get that particular game to look decent on a standard PCE.

Maybe I'm just not being creative-enough.

Back-in-the-day, it was all about doing what-you-could with the hardware that was out-there.

And so compromises were inevitable, and expected, and part-of-the-job.

But these days ... for someone like me anyway, it's all about the quality of the end-result. And I'm just too damned stupid to figure out how to make Kotsujin look really *good* on a regular PCE.  :oops:
I'd be fine with a SGX version so long as it wasn't the only version because, you know, that would really limit the amount of people who can play it >w>

You see, I REALLY LOVE the idea of pushing the weaker hardware and getting as much out of it as possible! Heck, one of the biggest reasons why I love the PCE so much (other than the sound, and the really fun games it has) is because I know (or at least have an idea of) how limited its hardware is, especially in comparison to its contemporaries, and yet I see it pulling off mind-blowing stuff both with and without the CD add-on that compares with, and sometimes (often?) even surpasses its more technically advanced competitors!

So making a good-enough port of a 1996 computer game into a 1987 console, without any add-ons, but taking advantage of some of the add-on features if detected, is a VERY attractive idea to me, not only because it would show off what the system can do, but also because it would maximise the amount of people who could experience it!
Personally I wouldn't mind having less bullets on-screen, or less enemies, or a little bit of flickering here and there, so long as we could somehow capture the essence of the game and put it on a system that I love and where it would feel right at home~♥

Also, I didn't draw at 2x2 pixels, I just took a screenshot at 2x resolution and put it on my sta.sh because I find it easier to look at that way >w>
Oh and, I did this a few months back:
IMG
#9
Quote from: elmer on 04/07/2017, 03:35 PMThe obvious sprite(s) to do as a test case would be the Red Bomb skull animations.

If those can be made to look really good at the 224-horizontal resolution, in PCE colors, then the whole conversion might look decent, even at lo-res.
I did a quick and dirty edit here of just that, it could be better and less dithery if I put more time into it but here's what I got:
IMG

Quote from: esteban on 04/07/2017, 10:32 PMThis damn thread raised my hopes.

Then dashed them.

Suddenly, a flicker of hope appeared....

Smothered.
Sorry >w>
Well, I did put "Hypothetical" in the title, I didn't want to get people's hopes up after all...
#10
Quote from: elmer on 04/06/2017, 08:33 PM
Quote from: Michirin9801 on 04/06/2017, 12:45 AM1 - We could use the 512 pixel mode to do a near-perfect port of the game's graphics (side-bar HUD aside, unless you'd be okay with making it only 64 pixels wide, which honestly, isn't enough), but well, I don't think that would be the best idea, because that would mean more flickering and we'd only be using 16 colours for the graphics, which honestly, sounds like a complete waste of the system's colour potential, not like we need to make it hyper colourful or anything, but with just a few extra colours we could make the PCE version look even better than the PC-98 one at half the resolution, which leads me to:
Why does the 512-pixel mode limit you to 16 colors?  :shock:

Have I missed something ... I thought that we still had all of our palettes in that mode.  8-[
It doesn't, I've only suggested the 512 pixel mode so that we could use the same assets as the original game, and said assets only use 16 colours so... Yeah...

Quote from: elmer on 04/06/2017, 08:45 PM
Quote from: Michirin9801 on 04/06/2017, 08:17 PMYou know, I'd prefer to keep the side bar not only for the sake of being close to the original, but also because of having to render less sprites as parts of the BG horizontally than the game would otherwise need, and also, correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I'm aware, you can only divide the BG layer in stripes in one orientation, either vertical or horizontal ...
I think that you're confusing us with the Megadrive.

The vertical-scroll registers are one of the few nice things about the Megadrive, and allow it to do that side-by-side split-screen thing.

We don't have that hardware capability on the PCE (IIRC the SNES doesn't have it, either).

For us ... you'd want the status bar on the top or bottom.

Displaying a 448-wide playfield on a 512-wide graphics mode would give a nice vertical shmup feel to the game.
So you're telling me that you can't divide a BG vertically on the PCE? Only horizontally?
If that's the case then...

Quote from: elmer on 04/06/2017, 08:33 PMSo we could run the game at 448x200, and still have space underneath for the status panel.

Perhaps something like this ...

IMG


Now ... running in 512-pixel mode would gut the PCE's capability to draw enough sprites to fill the screen ... but ... we do have a solution ... the SuperGrafx!  :wink:

The SuperGrafx should be able to do a pretty-much pixel-perfect, and color-enhanced version of Kotsujin.

Getting a 1996 game running in hi-res on a 1989 console, and potentially showing the SuperGrafx's superiority over the SNES and the Megadrive, that could be ... interesting.  :-k
I suppose that works too, but you know, the fun part would be seeing how we could potentially do this on the less powerful system if you get what I mean >w>

Here's an idea, what if there was a colour-enhanced 256 (or 320) pixel version on the PCE running on a 224 pixel playfield, and a pixel-perfect SuperGrafx version running on a 448 pixel playfield?
#12
Quote from: elmer on 02/11/2017, 11:08 PM... I thought folks might like this screenshot.

It's what you can see by disabling Falcom's sparkle fade-out of the Xanadu 1 logo.

Looks kinda nice, to me.

Thanks to Phase for the logo!  :D

IMG
♥~So pretty~♥
#13
Quote from: fragmare on 02/11/2017, 02:03 AMYou're welcome to download the DMF and try fiddling with it, but I'm about burned out on this track, at this point.
I took a look at your current DMF file and well, let's just say that there's a lot of waste in the channels... If I were to 'tweak' it, I'd honestly want to remake it from scratch, but this does serve as a plenty good enough basis to help me with that...
That said though I'm not gonna remake it from scratch because I have like, a load of other covers on the back-burner that I haven't posted yet because I wanna post them all in a big bundle if you know what I mean >w>
(Also, if I make a new cover of this song based on yours I feel like I'm cheating >~<'; )

But if you don't mind, I have a few suggestions for your future covers:
- Pick a channel to put all of the least important stuff in it, preferably channels 5 or 6, and stick with it for all of your future songs! I like putting my percussion on channel 6 so I pick channel 5, now what do you do with this channel? You use it as little as possible! Avoid using that channel as much as possible so that it can be cut out to play sound effects with as little loss in the song as possible, while still taking somewhat full advantage of the soundchip! It's important that you pick channel 5 or 6 because those are the only two that play white noise, so they're the best channels for synthesising sound effects that use both waveforms and white noise, always keep that in mind when making songs for the PC engine!
In my case, I mostly use channel 5 for de-tuned delay/reverb effects, so whenever a sound effect needs to be played, the reverb is gone, but the song doesn't lose any detail, but you know, sometimes I'm not even using all of the other 5 channels on the song, in those cases I put the reverb in another channel, leaving channel 5 playing nothing, which leads me to my next suggestion:

- Use as few channels as possible! I've noticed that you often use 2 channels to play the same note without even de-tuning them (or at least not to a noticeable extent) you can easily replace that with just a single channel without any loss in quality or detail... Let me put it this way: Never use 2 channels to play the same note unless you're de-tuning them or doing delay-reverb (or both, btw, it's always a good idea to de-tune your reverb) Even if those channels are playing different instruments, avoid using 2 channels for the same note, you can play the same note of 2 different waveforms on the same channel by simply halving the wave resolution of both waveforms and adding them together, thus making a new waveform, kinda like this:
IMG
(In this example I'm taking a sawtooth, halving both its height and length, then repeating the length horizontally, then adding the heights of the two new waveforms together to make an octave saw)

It's always a good idea to free up channels in case you want to play chords or a complex harmonic support, one of the best ways I know to free up a channel is to put the delay/reverb on the same channel as the instrument that's using said delay/reverb, it works best when the instrument that's doing this effect plays a new different note very often, like, every 2 rows, so if you have an instrument playing like that you'll notice that every odd row is empty right? Well, why not fill them up? Here's what I do, I fill every odd row with whatever note played 3 rows before it, only at a lower volume and panned differently, so you'll be adjusting the volume and the pan on that channel constantly, it takes up a lot of memory, but well, memory isn't exactly a problem anymore... I've used this trick prominently on my Fighting Back cover as well as on my Battle Xtasy cover, check'em out:
http://sta.sh/01l3peenzmer
http://sta.sh/01w5meszyjir

Also, don't be afraid to shift an instrument from one channel to another mid-song in order to free up channels to play something else!

- Use the Note Cut (ECxx) effects on the basses, cutting off the bass one tick before the next note gives them a noticeable boost! I've noticed that you're just using Note OFF commands before every bass note, that works too, but you get more control over the Note OFF with the Note Cut effect, they're pretty much the same thing, but with the Note Cut you get to pick in which tick of the current row the Note OFF effect gets triggered...

- You can use NEZplug to rip waveforms from PC engine games! Just go download NEZplug, then go on Zophar domain and download .hes versions of whatever PC engine soundtrack you want (so long as it's not on CD, unfortunately they don't have any CD PSG soundtracks), then you just listen to the songs you want, click the CH button to turn on and off channels, and to rip the instruments you want click the DMP button, then select DEV_HuC6230 (I know it's HuC6280, but it's just numbered wrong in the software) and click on the channel you want to rip, you're gonna get a string of Hex numbers that represent the wavetable currently in-use in that particular channel in the song you're listening to, just convert them all to Decimal and you've got your wavetable! I know you like making your own waves based on the waves of the song you're listening to, but it's a wise idea to use the wavetables from PCE games you like as well!

That's about as much as I can think of right now... Mind you, I'm telling you these things from experience, you've got a lot of talent you know, more than me perhaps, but it just seems like you need a little bit of guidance before you can achieve great heights!
Either way, keep up your great work ^^
#14
Quote from: elmer on 01/31/2017, 03:19 PM
Quote from: Michirin9801 on 01/31/2017, 02:53 PMAnd a screen-cap of an animation I'm currently working on:
IMG
I love the style, and the detail ... Beautiful!  :D
Quote from: touko on 01/31/2017, 03:30 PM
QuoteI love the style, and the detail ... Beautiful!  :D
i agree .
Thank you very much ^^
#15
Quote from: orby on 01/31/2017, 02:40 PM
Quote from: Michirin9801 on 01/31/2017, 01:59 PMI wouldn't mind contributing with a piece of art, so long as you don't mind cutesy 90s anime art of course...
That sounds interesting. We haven't decided on a theme yet, but an anime styled theme could be very cool. Post some of your stuff :)
Here's a 2bpp artwork for the GBC I did a while back:
IMG
(Note: The sprites have 6 colours as opposed to the usual 3 because they're 2 sprites on top of one another)

A fanart for Henshin Engine I did:
/yuki_shirokawa__henshin_engine__by_michiharuruko-darxbjv.jpg

The cover of my album that I also drew:
IMG

And a screen-cap of an animation I'm currently working on:
IMG

I can easily draw 4bpp artwork too btw, I just don't have anything presentable that reflects what I can currently do...
#16
Why haven't I come across this thread before? It's amazing!!
You know, this stuff is one of the reasons why I love the PC engine so much, all of these sweet visual effects impress the heck out of me! I mean seriously, we're talking about a 1987 game system with an 8 bit CPU and a single Background Layer doing all of this! Scaling, Stretching, line-scrolling, overlapping parallax scrolling, holy crap, this is witchcraft! And I LOVE it!

This effect in particular:
IMG
I don't remember who originally posted it, but it left me at awe, my jaw literally dropped, this is some Super Castlevania IV / Axelay stuff!
I kinda know how it's being done but holy s*** seeing it in action, actually being done in a playable game... I'm at a loss of words... And I didn't even catch what game it was, can someone tell me?
#17
Quote from: guest on 01/13/2017, 08:09 PMIMG
Oh I thought you were talking about the new challengers, my bad...
#18
The thing about the MSX is that it needs expansion soundchips to really sound 'good'...
Don't get me wrong the MSX PSG can put out good music if used right (USAS anyone?) But that's some "Not as good as NES" kind of good, and I'm the kind of person who doesn't even think the NES is THAT good... (Game Boy though is MUCH better because DAC)
In my personal opinion, expansion soundchips cheapen the value of the soundtrack while at the same time making the game more expensive... Yeah, the soundtrack is gonna be better with an expansion, but the system couldn't do that soundtrack without the expansion...

Personally, I'm more interested in what the system can do out of the box, which is why one of my Famitracker rules is "No expansions! Raw NES only!" and I'm all for pushing the limits of the system which is why I'm such a big fan of the Sunsoft DPCM bass and why I'm that much more impressed when I see parallax scrolling on the PC engine, the NES and the GB/GBC than when I see it on the SNES or on the MD for example... Those systems already have 2 or more BG layers out of the box, parallax for them is like, no sweat, in fact, all the more reason to be disappointed with them when they don't do it (except on top-down games, those don't really need parallax other than some very specific instances)
And that's also why I asked about wave-phasing, that was meant to be an easy-on-the-CPU way to get sample-like instruments on the PC engine! (Kind of)

With all that in mind it's no wonder I'm so excited about Bonknuts' sampler driver, it's gonna pretty much break the limits of the PCE without the need for any expansions!
Now don't get me wrong, it's not like there aren't any exceptions, I was the one wanting to use the CD ADPCM to play percussion samples and free up a PSG channel to play something else on a HuCard game, and I've made it no secret that I'm a huge fan of the SNES, and the system uses a f***ton of expansion chips!
(But you know, none of them are 'sound expansions', the SNES didn't need any sound expansions because it already sounds better than real life ;3)

Quote from: elmer on 01/10/2017, 10:22 PM
QuoteMaybe not for HuC, but assembly (and for games, not demos) - it's doable. RPGs with SNES sampler style string leads on the PCE? Not interested? I am.
Then do it!  :)

You've found a musician who's raring to go ... get on with it!  :D
If you're talking about me, you're absolutely correct ;3
I am VERY interested...
(But first I gotta finish dat gaem...)

P.S. I also make Grafx in case someone didn't catch it, check out this example I did within the MD's limitations:
IMG
There's 3 overlapping layers, the tree in the middle layer is a sprite, I think you get how it works from just looking...
#19
Quote from: elmer on 01/09/2017, 04:31 PMErrr ... I thought that the idea was to get rid of the noise frequency in the pattern itself, and just make it a part of the instrument definition (better drums, less clutter in the pattern).
That's exactly the idea!
Look at this screen-cap, it shows how I do my drums:
IMG
As you can see, I'm only really putting C notes on channel 6 because whatever note I put there doesn't really matter as I'm using the arpeggio macro to do my note-changes with the "Fixed Arpeggio" box checked.
The example shown in the screenshot is for the snare drum, it's the one that requires changing from wave to noise on-the-fly, pay attention to the parts that look like this:
[C-2|-] [1|11 00]
[ ---|-] [- |11 01]
That's the effect that is changing between noise mode and wave mode, (00 is wave mode and 01 is noise mode)
The idea is to eliminate those [11 00]s and [11 01]s, because as you can see, I have to rely on the song's tempo to change between wave and noise modes, which while not exactly hard, it's a little limiting with the kinds of PSG drums I can make because I can't make a drum that changes from wave to noise and back in a per-tick basis, only in a per-row basis, so I have to pay attention to my 'ticks-per-row' counter, but with a noise mode envelope I could potentially do something like this:
IMG
Which is how the exact same snare drum would work if you did it like I suggested!
Look at the wave macro now, before it was just one 00, because that's the wavetable it uses before it changes into noise mode, but in the second picture it is 00 00 32, with the suggestion I gave you it would play that wavetable for 2 ticks and in the 3rd tick it would switch to noise mode, so I'd be able to not only eliminate those 11xx effects, but also save this drum instrument like that and use the same drum consistently in a variety of songs without worrying about the song's tempo, which is defined by the ticks-per-row counter!
But the way it works right now I have to pretty much make a different PSG snare drum for each tempo...

Quote from: elmer on 01/09/2017, 04:31 PMI'd hadn't considered that you could use the Arpeggio Macro for noise frequency ... but that *could* work out nicely, it would just be a case of deciding how to map the +/-12 range of the arp onto the 1..31 range of the noise frequency.

And that would make any potential change to the Deflemask UI even easier!
Deflemask already has that mapped, pretty much every song I make with the PSG drums (which is most of them) already has all of the desired noise frequencies in place in the arpeggio macro, so that's pretty much good to go, all that I really need is that "on/off" switch for the noise mode in an envelope...
#20
Quote from: guest on 01/09/2017, 01:51 AMPaula is hard panned L/R out of stupidity, kind of like how they voluntarily picked that shit tier palette for the C64.  They chose those colors willingly.    Someone sat down and said "yes, we need two shades of olive, and 3 shades of gray.  that is what will make this fucker look great!"

IMG

Amiga music with headphones SUCKED:  https://youtu.be/K0FaAs4M3d0
Agreed, it just seems like Commodore had a habit of making s*** design choices for their computers, even if the computers themselves turned out good in the end... Kinda like how the Nintendo had technically 64 colours in its palette, but 10 of them are black and 2 shades of grey and white are pretty hard to distinguish from one another, and thus could have been replaced with different colours (Maybe more yellows?)

But to some people those s*** design choices are what gives the respective systems their charm, which I understand even if I don't agree... (Seriously, I hate that hard-panning on the Amiga)

Quote from: guest on 01/09/2017, 01:51 AMWhat kind of MD game are you making?  That sounds interesting.
I'll talk about it when I have something more presentable to show...
I'm currently in the process of remaking all the background graphics pretty much from scratch in order to squeeze some very needed extra colour and detail out of the limited palettes on the MD...
But since I'm too lazy and get distracted too easily and grow more of a distaste for the MD the more I work with it I'm doing PC engine music, playing Galaxy Fraulein Yuna and drawing fanart of Yuna on my 3DS instead of actually working on the game... Shame on me I guess...
#21
Quote from: fragmare on 01/09/2017, 10:32 AMHah!  Now, I'm interested in this wave-phasing shenanigans.  If it can be done without that hideous pop I can replicate that HARD knock at the beginning of each bassline beat from the Genesis version of my SoR1St1 cover... which would probably sound great!
Umm, maybe? If you've heard my examples you've probably noticed that this effect is better off used on very specific situations which exclude lower-pitched instruments such as baselines, it's on those that the effect is at its worst...
Now yeah, if it can be done without the popping sounds then it would work wonders for a more bassy sound, especially on a song covered from the Genesis, but if the popping problem can't be solved, which it's proving hard to, then I'd suggest you to stay away from wave-phased basses...
However there are some other trick to get a 'Hard knock' at the beginning of a bass sound, it's probably not what you're looking for, but the trick is to use the arpeggio effect, on which in the very first tick you put the note an octave above (or below depending on what you want) the note you're currently playing, and then in the second tick you switch to the proper note you meant to play an hold on it...
It's not gonna sound good for a lot of songs, but a fair few of them can benefit from this trick...

IMG
^Here's what the envelope looks like

https://web.archive.org/web/20190510000057/https://sta.sh/01g5r8e9ukot
"Flame Zapper Kotsujin - Sky is well supplied with"

^And here's an example of a song that I made that uses it, it's incomplete, and I don't know if I'll ever complete it, and yeah it has no drums because the original has no drums, it's the reason the bass in it is so heavy...
#22
Quote from: elmer on 12/27/2016, 12:30 AMMichirin9801's "Misty Blue" cover is the one that I really want to get working in order to read from deflemask files, and to add whatever enhancements are practically-needed to the driver.
Oh gosh, hearing that one in a proper rom would make me so happy!
(even happier if you can emulate this look)

IMG

Some people love the chunky pixels and drab palette of the C64, what I love is the tall pixels and vibrant (if few) colours of the NEC PCs, and while the resolution might be a little off, I think you can do it with the 512 pixel mode on the PCE... Not saying you have to do it, but... Just a little suggestion ;3
You did an Amstrad CPC prompt for the Game Boy song after all...

Quote from: elmer on 12/27/2016, 12:30 AM
QuoteI'd like to hear this song done in a more PCE style setup instead of the SID esque warbleystuff.
Me, too.

I'm not a musician, and I know that I've messed-up the sound balance with my crappy gameboy-emulation volume envelopes, and lack of decent waveforms, and terrible doubling-of-the-channels, etc.

It could be done so much better if someone wanted to.

I just suspect that nobody would be interested-enough to try.  :cry:
Well, I could TRY to do it, but I can't guarantee I'll actually finish it >w>
But hey, there's no harm in trying right?

Quote from: guest on 12/27/2016, 12:46 AMIt's rare to find a track that uses them well, honestly.
This is one of the only ones I can think of that does something good with them.  They used them as upstroke sounding chords, and then a reasonably not-over-powering background noise.

Last Ninja did OK too.
Bomberman '93!
What's good about this song is that it uses arps sparingly, and in this case I think that they actually enhance the song and I couldn't possibly imagine it with proper chords when these arps are that good!
But yeah, it really is rare to find good arps...
#23
Quote from: guest on 12/23/2016, 05:39 PMYou can do this in MML as we've mentioned before just by changing the waveforms in succession.

You'll just have to be careful while doing it, and it will probably look a little messy.   You could define notes as patterns though, and play the patterns instead of notes.  It's a bit cheating, but would let you not have to keep redoing work.

It would definitely be good for PWM'd lead sounds like the C64, without the arps. https://youtu.be/HTbOO7dEIEo I did this stuff with a bit of C64 in mind.  I made a sort of SID sounding lead with PC Engine flare.  I'm not doing any phasing though.   IIRC, it's two channels combined with a bit of detuning.
I would if I could but I don't know MML yet... I think I'll wait for elmer's DMF2PCE thing to be complete before I really dabble into it >w>

Also, the soundtrack is pretty good, but you'd get a better C64 effect if you used a sawtooth in one channel and a reverse-sawtooth in the other and play those two slightly out of phase...
Kinda like this:

Waves:
IMG
Result:
Quote from: Windcharger on 12/23/2016, 09:24 PM
Quote from: Michirin9801 on 12/20/2016, 02:36 PMHello everyone, I'm new here...
Hey!  I didn't know you were on the forums too...  Too cool, and welcome!   :D

Quote from: Gredler on 12/20/2016, 02:57 PMWelcome to the boards! Another musician has been revealed! Hooray!
Indeed!  Seems like we're making some good and much needed PCE audio progress as of late!  whoo hoo!
Thank you very much ^^
#24
Quote from: ccovell on 12/22/2016, 10:50 PMI don't know how much this will help, but if you have a PCE/Turbo flash cartridge, you can try out wave phasing* on real hardware easily enough using my never-finished PCE sound tool:

IMG IMG
chrismcovell.com/data/PCMgine_b1.zip

In the top-right of the first image, you can see a "WF Cycle" function that ping-pongs between up to 7 different waveforms in memory at selectable speeds.  You can at least test things out this way.

*or a crude facsimile
That's the tool you've used in your last video right?
It's a pretty good tool but I still don't have a real PC engine to use it on... But I'll get one eventually!
Also, the fact that this tool can even do that is already proof enough that it can be done in real hardware!
#25
Quote from: Gredler on 12/22/2016, 09:07 PM
Quote from: elmer on 12/22/2016, 09:04 PMThat would be my goal.  :wink:

I don't know if I'll get there ... but at-a-minimum, I should be able to read deflemask files and turn them into some sort of simplistic MML that could then go into Squirrel.
IMG
Honestly, if you can make this happen I would be mind blown.
So would I!
That's just what I need~♥♥
Even a simplistic MML would already help a lot! (But an MML with all the envelopes and wavetable information would be even better of course ;3)