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[Off-Topic / Re: Michirin's PCE Music Thread]

Here's some more Miku music on the PC engine, enjoy!

[Off-Topic / Re: Michirin's PCE Music Thread]

In order to commemorate the release of the Super Mario Land 2 DX Colour romhack, which you can check out here:

I took it upon myself to covering one of my favourite songs from the game on the PC engine! I hope you like it ^^

[Off-Topic / Re: Michirin's PCE Music Thread]

I hope you like this!
Merry Christmas!

[Off-Topic / Re: Michirin's PCE Music Thread]

Bought it weee.

Ditto.



The opening tune (Cyberblock Metal Orange) is my fave, I think.

But the Bomberman 5 (SNES) track remains catchy as hell.

So many great songs....

Thank you very much ^^
Glad you guys like my covers!

[Off-Topic / Re: Michirin's PCE Music Thread]

I made another album!
Get it here: https://michirin9801.bandcamp.com/album/best-of-michirin-vol-2

[Off-Topic / Re: Michirin's PCE Music Thread]

Here's a song I've covered from a SNES fighting game that's a bit of a 'hidden gem' if you will...
I hope you like it!

Also, glad you like my songs turboswimbz and ParanoiaDragon ^^

[Off-Topic / Re: Michirin's PCE Music Thread]

New cover from an old favourite, hope you like it!

[General Gaming / Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it]

As I said again and again, and will say as many times as I have to, what matters is the games, my experience was different, but it's still valid, because I've played the games and have something to say about them, and so I will!

Yeah, so remember how I said it's clear you don't care about the machine, and care about the games, and you said:

and you can't tell me how much I can or cannot appreciate something, or how interested in it I am, because you can't see inside of my mind, and by trying to do that you make an arse of yourself...

lol.

You missed the point entirely...
To me, playing the games is more important than replicating a certain experience, but even though I say that, I still want to have that experience, but having it is not as high in my priority list as getting to play the games, I'll get to it when I can, I'll tell you what I think when I get to have said experience, whether my perspective changes or not we'll see...

Your horizons aren't truly expanded until you play these things the right way.  It's just a cut/dry fact.  No amount of enthusiasm will change this.  Right now, you're having a valid invalid experience.

You also miss the point of the validity of my experience, I never even pretended to say that I was having the same experience as you, in fact, I made it clear long ago that I wasn't, you know how I said I wasn't having an authentic experience? Yes, I recognised that, from the very beginning...
But the point is that even though my experience wasn't the same, it was still a valid and worthwhile way of experiencing the games I did, there's no "one true way" of experiencing a game, you just fail to recognise that because you think in absolutes...

You are missing out.  There are atmospheric things about video games that you are completely hosing yourself from experiencing, all because you've convinced yourself all that matters is the games themselves.   This is one of those times where having access to everything via emulation is a bad thing.

Yes, I'm missing out on having the same experience you did, but I'm not missing out on playing the games, because I've played them...

Yes, and redesigning the game changes the game from the expected setup, and often sucks.  So when you're dealing with a changed game AND a probably shitty dpad, it can suck doubly.  Especially in HandheldLand(TM) where you can't change the controller.

Again, only if you do it wrong, and the GBA fighters did it right...

The correct comparison would be to use Gameboy/GB Color games, and those Street Fighter/MKs/etc. games are all complete horseshit.  The only reason you played those ever is because you didn't buy a NGPC, and didn't want to be seen with a fuckin Tiger handheld in public.

In the case of the NGPC and Wonderswan fighters, they were both dialed down to handheld land fine.  Where Wonderswan falls apart though, is it's controls suck by comparison to it's direct competition. 

Again, this is why the NGPC was awesome.   The best handheld fighting you're going to get is the NGPC/Wonderswan stuff.  The best handheld experience you're actually going to get, is the NGPC one.

(Note: I say this WRT to fighting games.  Outside of fighting games, neither machine is better than the other except for at the time, you had to import a Wonderswan, so you weren't playing that shit probably)

I only brought up the GBA fighters because someone else brought them up...
I never said the GBC/GB had better fighters than the NGPC, heck I even agree that it doesn't...
This whole discussion only started because I said I thought the NGPC was underwhelming, allow me to better explain what I meant:
The games themselves are perfectly fine, what I don't like about the system are its often bland colours in sprites, which btw, is a problem that someone who actually played on the real handheld also had:

Aside from the buttons, the only thing that ever bugged my about the NGPC fighters was that you generally had black, white, clear, and 1 accent color per sprite.

and the poor sound, which is by far my biggest gripe with the system and is something that's not gonna go away even if I play on the real thing...
But again, even if I do have these problems with the system, I still think the games are good! I just feel that these bland graphics and crappy sound makes the game feel like it's less than the sum of its parts... If you don't feel that way, that's perfectly fine, don't let my opinion take away from your enjoyment from the games or the system...

The reason why I brought up specs was to justify why I think NGPC games generally don't look any better than GBC games... I was talking about graphics, not about gameplay!
But the GB/GBC is always gonna have better sound because it can do more waveforms than just square waves...

lol, you say this with idiotic confidence, considering you just had to have the whole "hardcore fighting game" thing explained to you like 45 seconds ago.

Then tell me, why do you, or whoever you're in agreement with, can get away without spelling out stuff that you're implying, but I have to spell out everything that I mean?

The games are more important than the hardware, I admit. However when the games and hardware were designed together to do something no other hardware can, then it becomes impossible to separate the two.

I get why a game that was designed to be played on a specific system might be better enjoyed if played on the real thing, that said though, if you DO separate the two, and the game still holds up on its own, (like a lot of the Wonderswan stuff does) then hey ho! The game held up well over time, and that's a good thing!

[General Gaming / Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it]

If you think playing a handheld without ever holding said handheld in your hand isn't a less valid experience, you're kind of a dipshit.  Plain and simple.

It's great how you forego common sense to staunchly defend your basically nonsense stance on validity while still admitting its "unauthentic", lol.

I guess on the brightside, you can save tons of money on amusement parks by going and riding those virtual rollercoasters instead. 

As I said again and again, and will say as many times as I have to, what matters is the games, my experience was different, but it's still valid, because I've played the games and have something to say about them, and so I will!

As I said anyways, emulating isn't that big of a deal for the game aspect, but you completely misunderstand the handheld and it's experience without having touched the real ones.  You're playing a bunch of well-back-lit-crap on nice screens, with a controller you can choose yourself (or already like, on the DS).   

another good way to illustrate this is when people think emulating arcade games gives the same experience as being in an arcade.

There's an atmospheric effect that you're completely missing.  Sure, you're playing the game, but there's something missing.   You just don't realize it yet.

I'd laugh really hard if you get NGPC and Wonderswans and flip which you like more.  What sucks though, is having done these via emulation, you're going into the handheld experience with a bias view point.   Kind of a bummer.

I'm not playing these games to try and replicate a very specific experience, I'm playing them because I want to expand my horizons and play things that I hadn't before! This is a valid experience to be had, even if it's different from "what was intended" or "what you had"

I'm not trying to see inside your mind.  You're talking about appreciation with regards to things on things you haven't physically touched.  It's so backwards.  Do we need to start a GoFund me to get you a NGPC and Wonderswan so you can hold them and pet them, and see how they are? lol

Like no joke if I see one in my area cheap enough I will 100% buy the thing and mail you it.   I'd mail you mine if I hadn't sold it.  I kind of regret it sometimes. 

No need, I'll get it on my own when I can...

I'd play the SNES Street Fighters over the PCE one.  The PCE one isn't anything spectacular, lol.

I thought 3DS could do PS1 now. 

PS1 on the 3DS is too slow to be playable, and my 3DS isn't hacked, I'll hack it whenever Nintendo stops updating the system, I don't wanna risk bricking mine... Hopefully by the time I do it there will be a decent PCE emulator for it, I know there's already a lot of SNES and GBA support, not sure about Genesis but I'm not exactly desperate for it...
I can only emulate what's available for the original DS, and while there are emulators for more advanced stuff than the PCE on it, pretty much none of it is playable from my experience...

I've been using d-pads longer than you've been alive.  That doesn't mean I don't recognize the importance of a competent control stick.  The GBA's dpad sucks.  SPs was OK, but, really, for the motions of a fighting game, dpads have always sucked.   You and I can do it just fine because we've been at it forever, but it's far from optimal.  You'd be surprised how much more fluid a fighting game feels once you get used to the sticks.   I had to forcibly work at it and break d-pad intuition.  It was kinda worth it.

You just need to not use a garbage stick.  Most people say they hate using joysticks.  What they mean is, they hate using poverty garbage joysticks, and have never used a sweet one.  One day you're going to touch a sweet control stick and go "goddamn, this is sweet".

Even arcade sticks themselves suck when you're playing a gunked up one that isn't properly maintained. 

I understand and respect your opinion, but until I get to experience an arcade stick that's "not garbage" enough to convince me that joysticks are better than D-pads, I'll gladly pick a D-pad over an arcade stick...

You know what though?  It generally feels wrong.  Sometimes jarring even, to play handheld games not-on-a-handheld.  even super gameboy as a kid was weird sometimes.  You get this highcolor border surrounding a 4 color game.  It was kind of cool, but also kinda like "well is this really that much better?"

You're saying that because you're expecting to have this specific experience with handhelds that you're familiar with, but since I'm not expecting that, I don't have the same problem as you...
I can't say whether or not playing these games on emulators is better than the real thing, but I can say that I've played the games, and I've enjoyed what I played... I didn't need my screen to look a certain way or the buttons to feel a certain way to play a good game and have fun, and that's ultimately what I want from video games, to have fun, not to "recreate a very specific experience that someone else is imposing on me"

We shouldn't have to bringup/point out the "competitive fighting game" part.  It's implied.  You needing it spelled out shows that you aren't a hardcore fighting game person.  It's not like it's a bad thing. 

Competitive fighting game scenes are some of the finnickiest fucktards in gaming. 

The point isn't designing a game with 2/4/6/whatever buttons.   The point is that when games go from 6 to 2 or whatever, you've now changed the entire dynamic of a game.  People's expectations of a Street Fighter aren't met when the buttons and gameplay isn't consistent.  That's why handheld fighters sometimes suck/piss people off. 

and at the time, the NGPC having a nice stick was an actually-important-thing.  This was back in the time when you could still walk into this thing called an arcade, put money in a machine, and play a fighting game (with joysticks as they were intended) with other people.

Rolling into Aladdin's Castle to play Marvel vs. Capcom on an actual machine was a great time.  The Dreamcast version is fucking great, but yknow what?  The Dreamcast controller's D-Pad fucking sucks a huge penis when you try to play it on there.   
The joystick matters.

If porting a 6 button game to a 4 button or a 2 button doesn't work, that's when you redesign the game to fit a 4 button or a 2 button control scheme! It is going to be consistent if the controller motions do what you're expecting them to do, and on the GBA, Wonderswan, and even NGPC, they do!

What I don't understand is this double-standard you have about saying that handheld fighters suck because they have fewer buttons but excusing the NGPC because it had a mini arcade stick on it, even though it still has fewer buttons, even fewer still than the GBA...

Also, """hardcore""" fighting gamers aren't gonna bother with handheld versions!!
These versions aren't for them, they're for people like me, who enjoy playing fighting games and wanna play some while out and about... Arguing that handheld fighters are bad because hardcore fighting gamers don't wanna play them is basically pointless, there's nothing you can tell them to convince them to play anything that isn't gonna be on the next EVO, they're not gonna care...
Handheld fighters should be first and foremost fun to play, no need to pander to the hardcore demographic that isn't gonna bother with them... If these handheld fighters are good games on their own accord, I'm going to play them! Even if there are "better" versions that I could be playing instead...

Also, the controller only matters if you don't like it, if you do like what you're using, and I sure as hell like using the GBA SP for controlling my games, then no, it doesn't matter...

Put it short, how many buttons you have isn't important, Game Design is important!

Kind of.  1 button joystick setups suck and hamper game design. Saying "game design is important!" is such a copout with regards to shit control schemes.  Sometimes, controllers just suck.   See: Intellivision.   No amount of game design saves you from having to put up with that stupid shit.

1 button joysticks are definitely a pain to work with and design something around... But if you manage to make something that only uses 1 directional and 1 button, and it feels good and is fun to play, I'll be impressed! Which is why Shadow Fighter impresses me, I'm not gonna say that it's on-par with the other fighters of the time, but I don't think it's bad at all... You don't like it? Sure whatever, but I think it's pretty alright, I've certainly played worse fighters, and those did have more buttons...

Don't you have like a PS3 or something?  You can play online.  I can't promise that it will be fun, though.   It's a completely different game when you're playing with someone else. 

Nope! Just the 3DS... I can play Super Street Fighter IV online on it though...
I think you can't play online on the Wii anymore, but even if it could, who the hell is playing Tatsunoko vs. Capcom anymore? (I sure as hell wish I was)

[Off-Topic / Re: Michirin's PCE Music Thread]

"Michirin covered a song from a mainstream game? What gives?!?!"
Yeah, I just felt like it you know?
It's a good song, and I felt I could do it justice on the PCE... Whether or not I've managed to is up to you...

[General Gaming / Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it]

Michirin if you've ever used a neo geo CD controller, the "microswitch" stick on the pocket is similar except smaller. It's really comfy!

You mean that controller that looks more like a proper Gamepad rather than an Arcade stick? I've used it once a little bit... I don't remember it being very good though, but I'm under the impression that the particular controller I used wasn't in its top shape...

[General Gaming / Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it]

You are having a less valid experience with the NGPC and Wonderswan.   You even said yourself it was unauthentic.  You agree with me while also trying to disagree with me. 

What I agree with is that I've had a different experience than you, as in not having played the real physical thing, what I disagree is that it was less valid, it was not, and there is NOTHING you can say that will change that...

But you know what? I WOULD pick those systems up if I could! You think I don't want to play the actual systems? Here's the thing though, do you have any idea how much animators, let alone beginner/young animators who are still really low in the ranks get paid?
Answer: It's not even enough to pay for my college! Let alone importing a handheld from Japan and a flash cart, the only disposable income I have is what little I make through Bandcamp...
Until I can buy a Wonderswan or an NGPC, I'll simply keep on emulating them, because the games are fun, and I like them, but as I've said before, I liked the Wonderswan games better...

You can't better appreciate any of it because you literally have no idea what these handhelds were actually like.   You're just throwing specs out there and comparing/complaining about them, completely out of context.

It's obvious you're not interested in the handheld machine itself.   You're interested in another batch of games, tech specs, and chiptunes to compare to the SNES, lol.

I was comparing the specs of the NGPC to the GBC in order to justify why I think NGPC games generally don't look any better than GBC games, and besides, I like talking about specs, and you can't tell me how much I can or cannot appreciate something, or how interested in it I am, because you can't see inside of my mind, and by trying to do that you make an arse of yourself...

*eye roll*.  So it's your favorite watered down Guilty Gear game because you've admittedly basically only played handheld ones.  Dang.  You got me.

I said most of them were handheld titles, but I've also played the first game on PlayStation, and I even said in a previous post that I would pick Petit 2 over the original on PS1...

If you're emulating, why even play the PCE one?  You could play better versions of SF2 at that point.  Why even debate the Supaboy thing if you're carrying around a fucking 3DS with emulators.

Because the DS can't emulate anything more powerful than the PCE...
In that comment I was talking about being able to play Street Fighter II on-the-go, and my 3DS isn't hacked yet so I can only emulate whatever I can put on my DS flash cart, and the PCE is about as high as it goes... So it's either the PCE one or the GBA one, and you know, "better" is subjective, Hyper Fighting on the SNES is my go-to version even if Ultra SF2 HD edition or whatever else is available...

Again, playing out of context and ignoring that the NGPC had a better control stick, likely playing on a handheld emulator where backlighting and such makes the GBA's visuals look way better.

and still making me wonder why you don't just play a better version instead.  lol

And what I just said about "better being subjective" applies to this, as it does to basically everything...
You may think the NGPC has a better control stick, that's fine, I'll see about it whenever I get the chance to play one, but as I've said before, I've been using D-pads my entire life, and I always like them better than arcade sticks, so I'm not very confident about a thumb-sized arcade stick winning me over...

Well, you aren't actually playing them, so yes, you are playing them wrong... lol.   I don't get why this is such a controversial concept.
[...]
The only thing fucked is trying to say emulated handheld experiences are the same as playing the real handhelds.  It's not.   Just accept it and move on.  Stop being upset about it like it's going to change it.

Yes, I AM playing the games! I'm not playing on the same machine that you did, but these are still the same games, and I didn't even try to say that it's the same thing, I said time and time again that I know it's different, but once again, just because it's a different experience, doesn't mean it's less valid, nor does it mean it's wrong!

I said you're not a HARDCORE fighting game fan.   Try f*u*c*k*i*n*g reading before you do your "reeeeeehururuuuuu don't invalidate me #triggered SJW I can do stuff too" bullshit.

You demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding of fighting game intricacies if you don't care about buttons, and only want it to be A LOT OF FUN TO PLAY.   

I figure you only play them buy yourself and have not actually delved that far into the fighting game rabbit hole, outside of playing a bunch of them, and comparing/contrasting them.

I'm not even that hardcore of a fighting game fan anymore.  I hate competitive environments, and the way things carry on in those circles.

However, I am fully aware of various details / intricacies of fighting games that you COMPLETELY miss if you only play against AI.   It's like playing a different game completely when you're playing these things in that elevated scene.

like, watch people toss in Street Fighter Alpha 2 to kill some time.   They'll have fun.  It'll be cool.  They like fighting games.

Now watch two people with autism rainman fighting game stuff play SFAlpha 2 after they pull out their bigdick joysticks,  put on gloves with special fingertips, powder everything so no sweat is involved, get out protractors to make sure all the angles are correct with their seating/hand placement, and you'll see what I mean.

It's enthusiasm vs. "holy shit you really like fighting games".

Enthusiasts can go "oh this is OK.  The controls are all stupid now but it's OK I guess.  I'm having fun."

Hand a hardcore fighting game wacko a crapped up fighter on a handheld, and you're going to see it getting punted into a trashcan.

Your "good enough", is a more seasoned persons "Fuck this shit", and I am not sure you understand this.   You're comparing fighters in their "i had fun with it" capacity, basically ignoring all of the intricate details.

Which is shocking, honestly, given how much you start rambling about fuckin sound chip/sprite/color/electron stuff when talking about games.

Neither you nor Zeta brought up "Being competitive at fighting games" as a factor until now, but if you're gonna do that, then no, I'm not competitive, but to me this is less of a question about "competitive intricacies" and more of a "game design" one, and if you're a game designer, and you can't make your fighting game work within 2 or 4 buttons, then I question how good of a designer you actually are... Not saying that I can design a fighting game, I haven't put in the time to do that yet, but I have played plenty of good (and deep) fighters that don't need 6 buttons, including within the Street Fighter series, and as far as I'm concerned, the intricacies don't come from how many buttons your game has, but from the game's design, as I've seen in videos about competitive fighting, a pro fighting game player is still gonna beat your arse even if the game only has a Jump button and a Dropkick button...

Put it short, how many buttons you have isn't important, Game Design is important!
In fact, if the game is good enough, competitive players will find their own intricacies even if they were not intended by the devs, just look at Super Smash Bros. Melee and what its competitive players do...

Also, I couldn't be competitive even if I wanted, the very rare opportunities that I get to play with someone else, it's always either with people I know, who can't beat me because they don't play as much as I do, or with strangers who I can't beat because they're actually competitive at it so I don't stand a chance, and who said they're gonna coach me or anything?

I guess you could simply call me a "fighting game enthusiast" that label fits me well enough...

[General Gaming / Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it]

Some years ago, using only a meager crappy cell phone I made a video comparing the three Wonderswan models after having just obtained a SwanCrystal at the time.

Here is the result.

Wow... The difference between the Swan Crystal and the Swan Colour is stunning!

[General Gaming / Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it]

I wasn't speaking in the abstract. You need six buttons to play a port of a six button game.

No you don't

If the game is properly redesigned for fewer buttons (ie: all NGP fighters) then it works fine.

Because of that exactly!
Pocket Fighter and the GBC port of Street Fighter Alpha managed to translate Street Fighter's Control scheme to two buttons, you might be missing some move variants, but they both still work as very decent fighters, and since the GBA has 4 buttons you can get even more move variants in there!

Unfortunately, as much as you don't like it and are trying to justify otherwise, your experience with these machines IS less valid, because you are not actually playing the systems.   You damned yourself while trying to justify it by admitting it is unauthentic.

No, it's NOT less valid, it's different, but I've played the games, therefore I can have an opinion about them.

You're not "breathing new life" into them by emulating them.    You're basically just playing shittier versions of games when you don't need to be.   

We were playing Gameboy/NGPC and downgraded games because Supaboys and shit weren't invented yet.   If we had the option to take SNES portably around, we would have.

I don't have to "need" to play a handheld version of a console or arcade game to be interested in it and enjoy playing it, and if the game is good, but trapped on a handheld that has an unlit screen, a crappy speaker and wonky buttons, you ARE breathing new life into it by emulating it, because you can then better appreciate the game for what it is! It served its purpose on being a handheld version of a "better" game back then, but if it's still good, there's still reason to play it!

Also, this notion completely undermines the system exclusives, here's an example, Guilty Gear Petit 2 is an original Wonderswan Colour game, and it's already become my favourite in the series thus far! Granted I've only played 5 other games in the series, most of them on handhelds, so I could still maybe find another game in the series that I like even better whenever I get around to playing more, but right now, I like that game better than the others in the series that I've played...

Downsizing control schemes of 6 button fighters is pretty lacking.

If you do it wrong... But if you do it right, as mentioned above, it can work, and the GBA version of Street Fighter II DID work! Will I pick it over the SNES version? I'll pick it over The New Challengers, but not over Hyper Fighting, but I can't take the SNES on-the-go now can I? (No, the Supaboy is too big and bulky and you look like an idiot carrying it around)

Thankfully I can play the PCE version with 6 buttons on my 3DS, even if the sound is crippled by a bad emulator, so there's still a reason for me to play SF2 Turbo Revival...

Yeah, with less buttons it's not gonna be the same, but it doesn't have to be the same, it just has to be good, and to me, not only are the GBA (and Wonderswan) fighters good, they're better than the NGPC ones...

Also, those 1 button fighters are dogshit.   That stuff is for potatoes.  Most experiences on the Amiga are basically dogshit compared to anything else at the time.  Generally, the people who talk about how great that stuff is are actually just talking about how the visuals and sounds were, because the games themselves play pretty piss-poor almost always.

lol.

Yeah sure, throw in the bad ports of SF2, but omit the GOOD fighters that were designed for 1 button...
Again, see Shadow Fighter:

Honestly, with this whole argument you guys just sound like: "REEEEE! You've not played the systems the same way I did, so you're playing it wrong!"
And THAT is what I call a "slightly f***ed outlook"
Neither do you know how I played it, nor is it important, what's important is that I've played the games, and I have something to say about them, nothing more, nothing less... I can accept that you don't agree with what I'm saying, and I respect your opinion on whatever the subject matter is, but what I CANNOT accept is you telling me that I'm having a "less valid" experience just because it's not the same one that you had...

Also: "REEEE! You're not a real Fighting Game Fan because you like playing with less buttons!"
You can't judge fandom like that... First of all, I don't dislike the NGPC fighters, I just think the WS and GBA ones are better...
I could care less about how many buttons a game has, what I care more about is whether or not the game is fun to play, and I think Fighting Games are a LOT of fun to play, regardless of how many buttons they have! And yeah, they put Street Fighter II and Alpha III on the GBA, and they were still good! They were still fun to play! I'm less fond of Alpha III because the PSP has a much better version, so I mostly stick to SFII and KoF EX2 on the GBA...

[General Gaming / Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it]

???? but they don't exist?

Check out Shadow Fighter on the Amiga...

[General Gaming / Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it]

The GBA doesn't even have enough buttons to play Street Fighter. The idea is a joke.

The only idea that's a joke is this notion that "you need X amount of buttons to play Y kind of game"
As you know, there are plenty of excellent fighters that only use 2 buttons, and heck even only ONE button, the game just has to be designed for this kind of control scheme, and Street Fighter can absolutely work with only two buttons, let alone 4, yes it's not going to be the same as the 6 button version, but it can work, and as the GBA proves, it can work REALLY well...

[General Gaming / Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it]

Why do you assume I've plown through the library and played just each game for 5 minutes before deciding whether it's good or bad? I've been playing the NGPC for quite a while now, I've played many of its titles multiple times, I'm fairly familiar with what they're like, and yeah, the fighters are mechanically sound and well-made, but due to its poor sound, low bit depth graphics and almost monochrome sprites, I've generally felt rather underwhelmed by the system...

And yes, the NGPC has better fighting games than the GBC, I never said otherwise, and I love fighting games as well, but the quality of fighting games aside, I don't feel that the NGPC is any more technically or graphically impressive than the GBC, even if it is more capable...

And honestly, as good as the NGPC fighting games may be, I still thought Guilty Gear Petit 2 and Pocket Fighter on the Wonderswan were better than pretty much everything the NGPC had to offer, and I didn't even have to play them for over a week to form that opinion...
And the GBA fighters, SF2 Revival and KoF EX2 in particular, wipe the floor with the NGPC... If you prefer the NGPC's control stick, that's fine, but I've been playing on D-pads my entire life, and the GBA SP has one of my favourite D-pads ever, I like it because it's clicky so it's more precise and I can consistently pull off my special moves in it, and I sure as hell can't say that about an arcade stick because I'm not a fan of them...

[General Gaming / Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it]

@CrackTiger, sure, if you think that way it's fine, but gameplay footage or images speak louder than words, show me an NGPC game that looks better than Wacky Racers, Lucky Luke or Cannon Fodder...

Heck, I'll even throw in Dragon Quest III, although this is not the ideal version of the game, and the sprites are just black, white and an accent colour (which makes it look more like an NGPC game) the overworld backgrounds look brilliant! They look almost 16 bit! And in the battles, while there are no backgrounds, which is a real bummer IMO and what ultimately turns me off of this version, they've still managed to animate all of the enemies, and with more than one animation per enemy!

(There's a battle at 27:46)

Dragon Quest I + II also looks pretty good, DQ1 even has backgrounds during battles (because it only has to render 1 enemy per battle so it can use the rest of the layer to put something interesting in there for you to look at) it doesn't animate the enemies, but I think the sprites look even better because they're more colourful, and the overworld backgrounds still look pretty good! Even if not quite as good as III's...

I always thought that a game could look Really cool if instead of one sprite you would layer two sprites on top of each other to make for 6 colors per dude.  If SNK had taken a fighter with a smaller roster (say, Last Blade perhaps?) and thrown extra effort into making everything have more colors then that would have been pretty cool.

That would have been sick!

[General Gaming / Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it]

If you don't like fighters then the NGP isn't really for you.

I bloody LOVE fighting games! I've played practically every colour fighting game the NGPC has to offer (but not the black and white ones) and while they certainly have bigger and more smoothly animated sprites than the GBC, and a 2nd BG layer (which was often just used on the HUD so there was no parallax) those were the only real advantage they have, at least from a hardware perspective... What really drags it down to me is the fact that every single character in every single one of them is just black, white and a 3rd custom colour... While it is true that GBC fighting games aren't as good, it's really not that hard to find GBC games which look better than NGPC games due to having more colourful characters, and since the tiles are still only 2bpp, the colour density in the backgrounds isn't any higher than the GBC...
What really drags the NGPC down to me though is the sound, I just can't stress how much of a difference having varied waveforms makes, and the NGPC doesn't have that, it's all just square waves and white noise, that's weak! It's this weak sound that makes it truly underwhelming to me...

Now, I haven't played on a real GBC, so I don't know how bad its screen was, I've played those games on the GBA SP and on the 3DS, so maybe the NGPC looked better back then because it had a better screen, but if we look at the games for what they are, not necessarily having to compare the actual handhelds, NGPC games look about on-par with GBC games, maybe a little better sometimes, sounds are definitely worse, but the GBC had the fortune of having its hardware pushed to hell and back by some very smart devs, (probably because it was so much more popular) so it has a lot of games that are really impressive-looking...

So these are some impressive looking games which look to be made probably further into the lifespan of the GBC than the NGP even existsed but I have to ask, which of these GBC games would you actually want to play?

I play all of them ;3
They're actually really fun! Except for Lucky Luke using B to jump and A to attack, that's just rubbish...

Didn't you just agree it was "kinda crap" , and say it was "underwhelming", lol.

Maybe you just mean the hardware is OK, and the games suck?    I don't know. 

I mean the games are fine but the hardware is kinda crap... The thing about the NGPC is that its weaknesses are much more pronounced than the GBC's, at least in emulation...

In any event, I find that comparing any handheld crap in emulators is kind of stupid.   You need to be comparing the real-things. It's like people playing Virtual Boy games in an emulator and going OH I DIDN'T GET A HEADACHE.

Lucky you, lol.

Half this crap, if you're playing it an emulator, you're literally playing a watered down version of a different game you could also be emulating.

The magic was in the fact that this thing was in your pocket, and you could play it at holiday functions instead of listening to your weird cousins talk about dumb shit.   It's rare that I ever used SuperGameboy or GBA player for anything outside of an RPG at home. 

The modern equivalent of that is how I plug my PSP into my TV so I don't have to sit staring at my crotch for 12 hours while I play an RPG on that thing.   otherwise, I'm probably just playing a PS3/4 game. 

I get this point, but I'm enthralled by less capable hardware, anything more powerful than a GBA pretty much ceases to impress me, at least when it comes to 2D...
For example, you'd think I'd hate playing the GBC version of Donkey Kong Country, but I think that version, while not ideal because of its wonky controls, is thoroughly fascinating! They've put Donkey Kong Country on an 8 bit handheld! And it looks the part, it kinda sounds the part, and it's pretty much feature-complete! That's awesome! Will I pick this version over the SNES original? Nope... But I will pick Guilty Gear Petit 2 on the Wonderswan over the original game on PlayStation ;3
And perhaps even Pocket Fighter as well, even if it's in black and white, but that version sounds nice~

(You don't need 2 BG layers for parallax.  Parallax and layered scrolling aren't the same thing.  They just go together nicely.)

I know, but when you have 2 BG layers to work with, and you don't do parallax, then unless you have a damn good reason (like having a top-down view for example) then I think you're not doing your game any favours...

All handhelds basically had goony sound until the GBA.  The Wonderswan was a bit exceptional but still not like it was mindblowingly better than even the regular Gameboy. 

Lynx and GameGear sounded blerpy too.  It all sounded blerpy.  Even Wonderswan's sorta ho-hum.

When you're hearing this stuff blaring out of a handheld speaker without headphones, this stuff mostly doesn't matter.

The Game Gear and the NGPC have basically the same sound, but the Game Boy was like a whole step and a half above those two, and the Wonderswan was yet another step and a half above the Game Boy, yeah the difference from the WS to the GB isn't mind-blowing, especially not when so many games insisted in using just square waves, but the few games that really took advantage of the sound hardware managed to sound pretty good!
I'm not too sure about the Lynx but I think that one is capable of playing samples, so that's nice...

The screens were tiny, not backlit, and often played in poorly lit living rooms or cars, or outside in direct sunlight.   The things you are complaining about are things you only notice when you sit and compare them in an emulator.   

I think if you had these in your hands, you'd barely give two shits either way and would mostly care about which games were better.    You'd probably be unimpressed with all of it compared to an SP.   

The fighting games on NGPC , and stuff like cardfighters clash had really clean, contrasty, nice looking visuals on those screens.   It definitely had a nice visual pop to it while playing, and ultimately, that was really important.   Later games and stuff on the GBA actually became more difficult to see because it was still not backlit, but now you have more shading and such.   The pop went away.

Yeah, I didn't have that experience, but that doesn't mean that my own experience with these systems, as 'unauthentic' as it may be, is not any less valid... I think emulating systems like these helps breathe new life into them, especially if you're like me and you're more interested in more limited hardware, emulating these systems helps you better appreciate the games for what they are, without having to deal with an unlit screen, a low-quality speaker and crappy buttons...

however, ultimately, everything generally fell back to the original gameboy.  Everything came and went, the original Gameboy somehow kicked everything's ass, and then the GBA showed up, wasn't backlit, we all still bought them with Xmas/Birthday money like the dumbfucks that we were, and it was fun even though we could barely see these new fancy graphics.

and then, you put it in your pocket and scratch the screen and go "ah shit", and then you see the SP release and want to lay down on a freeway.

The Gameboy Color was stupid.  I bought that thing the day it came out, and it was stupid.  I shoved Final Fantasy Adventure in and went "This is it?".  Links Awakening DX ?  "Why did I buy this, this is stupid", lol.   

but then I sat and played it for hours. and hours. and hours.   It was fun.  It was also small.  and it was that cool clear purple stuff.

I do not understand how/why the Gameboy+Pocket+Color basically annihilated everything in it's path.   It just did.  It didn't look or sound the best, but it won.   I think it was mostly because of the sheer number of available games that satisfied people's need for some kind of coherent action / whatever game on the go.  The library had it all (except fighters, lol).

The Game Boy won because of Tetris and Pokemon... In my opinion these are FAR from the best games on the system, but these two really helped cement the Game Boy's place as the most popular handheld... True, it may not have looked or sounded the best, but everyone had it, everyone wanted to play Tetris in its early days, and Pokemon in its later days, but the system was still good enough to play Mario, Zelda, Final Fantasy, Mega Man and what not, so why not put out games on the system that everyone already had? Some of us will buy and play all of the game systems, but most people will just stick with the first one they get, and for most people that was the Game Boy...

[General Gaming / Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it]

To be quite frank, both the NGPC and WSC may have had 16-bit CPUs and dual-layer playfields, but the low-bitplane graphics for both BGs and sprites in many games let the side down.  Music too.  Plus unimaginative game libraries and licensed dreck for the most part.  People rave about fighting games on the NGP, and for the WS.... er, Gunpey... but I never liked either and that was about it.  Libraries & systems were long ago sold off or given away as curios.

The only dedicated portable prior to the GBA that WOWed me was, of course, the Atari Lynx.

While I don't think the NGPC is a bad handheld by any means, I think it's not quite as good as it could (or should) be... The fighting games are nice, I like them, but the bland graphics with almost monochrome sprites really drag it down to me... The 2nd BG layer is nice, but instead of wowing me whenever there is parallax, I just get more disappointed whenever there isn't, and there often isn't...
And again, the soundchip, why so weak? Why only square waves? Give me a more robust sound!

The Wonderswan on the other hand, while the unit itself may not be of the highest quality, and the library is small and filled with licensed games, it does have its fair share of quality games! And the fighting games there are on the system, few as they may be, far surpass the NGPC's offerings! Honestly, I think the Wonderswan is what the NGPC should have been, I mean, what good is a 16 bit CPU when your graphics are still only 2bpp and your sound isn't any better than the SMS?
Show a less-informed gamer a Game Gear and an NGPC and ask them "Which one do you think is 8 bit and which is 16 bit?" and chances are they'll say the Game Gear is the 16 bit one, because at least that one has the 4bpp graphics to back it up, even if the colour count is actually lower and it lacks a 2nd scrolling plane...

And the Wonderswan's sound is good! The speaker may not be, but the sound hardware itself is, and games like Pocket Fighter and Star Hearts really show off how much better the WS sounds than even the Game Boy!

Also, the Lynx is another one that I haven't tried, but of all the Atari systems that one looks like the most interesting one, I mean, it does a lot of scaling and that's cool!

[General Gaming / Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it]

FMV intros and line scrolling roads? Is that what have to beat? No problem.

I don't know how to embed Youtube videos here though...

Just remove the S from "https"

And it's not just the FMV or the line-scrolling roads, check out just how many scanline interrupts we've got going on in Wacky Races! Basically, one for every scanline, so it can not only do an Amiga-style gradient in the background, but also do high-colour sprites in the character selection screen, smoothly transition between different road types, fade in and out sprites from view as if there was actually fog on the roads, and make highly-colourful and detailed backgrounds by being able to use every palette on it before they even bother to draw the road, also the smoothly scaling big sprites with little-to-no noticeable flickering that use a much more varied palette than the regular NGPC sprites...

And Cannon Fodder also has pre-rendered pre-stage screens that look real nice, and the game itself looks pretty good as well... I'd also throw in Donkey Kong Country which looks pretty good on GBC, but that game just isn't impressive enough, Lucky Luke on the other hand is:

^This one has parallax scrolling in spots, highly colourful sprites, and some pretty smooth animations as well!

[General Gaming / Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it]

But hey, did you just say the Neo Geo Pocket was "crap"? Are you suffering from a massive head injury or something? Doesn't look any better than the GBC?!? You're nuts. Nuts. If its 1999 and you're buying games for both systems every month the difference is like chocolate and shit. I loved the GBC, but comparing it to NGP is...like I said, nuts. Its like comparing Genesis to Neo Geo. A subtle difference if any to the novice but very obvious to the game literate.

Find me an NGPC game that looks as good as this:

Or this:

And I'll eat my words... And then play it... (The GB will always sound better though)

[General Gaming / Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it]

It was one of the first systems that the local place around me imported games for... And I think they lasted for maybe 3 months before the neo geo pocket color came out and everyone traded them in.

People traded the Wonderswan in for the NGPC? Wow... I'd have done the opposite, but then again, I have hindsight (and emulation) in my favour >w>';

[General Gaming / Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it]

Wonderswan Color is great with a nice balance of aesthetics that appeals to 16-bit fans. It's worth getting just to play the Final Fantasy games, particularly I & II.

At least those two were fan-translated! I'd say it's worth it for more than just that though, see the original post...

[General Gaming / Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it]

I love the Wonderswan. I just wish it was backlit.

I know how it is... I also wish the original GBA model was... At least I got an SP AGS-101 ;3

[General Gaming / Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it]

@HuMan I see... Well, thankfully I found some stuff on the system that I like, and my impressions are very positive thus far ;3

[General Gaming / Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it]

Interesting, I'd never heard about these educational hardware variant things before...
You know, to be fair, I'm emulating the system, so I'm not having the most 'authentic' Wonderswan experience, but the games I have played on the system are pretty good for the most part! Shame the system itself doesn't seem to be of such high quality...

Although I kind of agree with the NGPC being kinda crap, I've played it quite a bit, and I found it to be rather underwhelming... The thing is that it's a supposed to be a "very capable" handheld for its time, and while it can put big sprites on-screen, and animate them pretty well, the graphics are pretty bleh for the most part, only 2bpp, most sprites are just black, white and a 3rd custom colour, so it generally doesn't look any better than what you can do on the GBC, even with its two BG layers, in fact, I've seen a few GBC games that look way better and are far more impressive than NGPC games, and the sound is weak, only square waves! It sounds like a Master System, the Game Boy sounds way better, and the Wonderswan even better than that! (Emulated at least)

Also

Wonderswan is 32-bit, btw.

I looked it up, it has a 16 bit NEC V30 MZ @ 3.072MHz ;3

[General Gaming / Re: Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it]

Wonderswan is 32-bit, btw.

Is it? Oh well... It does have 4bpp graphics though, and again, similar sound to the PCE, so even if it isn't 16 bit, like the PCE itself isn't, it still has that '16 bit appeal', you know what I mean...

But yeah, I've yet to play its version of FF1, but I've seen it so I know what to expect, I've played a LOT of Magical Drop on the SNES so this version sounds appealing enough to me!

[General Gaming / Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it]

I'll assume you already know what a Wonderswan is and what it looks like, if not just look it up...

You know, what first attracted me to the Wonderswan was its sound, it's basically the same kind of sound as the PC engine's PSG, except with only 4 channels instead of 6 and the waveforms are only 4 bit as opposed to 5 bit, but it still sounds fairly close, and I'm just glad to be able to play more 16 bit games that I hadn't played before with a similar sound to the PCE!

The first game I've played on the system was Guilty Gear Petit 2, which if you know me wouldn't be surprising at all, and oh my gosh what a start! My first impression was: "I should have tried this sooner!"
Needless to say I loved it! The controls are very responsive, it's really easy to combo in this game, but it's still fairly challenging, and the CPU will catch on if you spam the same move over and over and act accordingly! I've managed to beat it a few times and I'll definitely be playing this again and again!
The only problems I've had with this game are that the music isn't great, but it's passable, and the backgrounds are kind of ugly with an excessive use of dithering... The sprites are pretty nice though, I think they could be better-animated, but they're pretty cute!
This is an uncommonly good handheld fighter, very much worth playing if you're a fan of the genre!

After that I've played the first Guilty Gear Petit, and let's just say that it's basically the same game as the second, but worse in almost every way, it's not bad at all, but the sound effects are weaker, the controls are stiffer, it's harder to combo, but it's somehow a much easier game than the second because the CPU AI isn't as good... I'll give it this though, the backgrounds in this version are better than in the 2nd game! They've used dithering more sparingly so it looks much cleaner and more pleasing to the eyes, it's still there but its use makes much more sense now... Just stick with the 2nd game...

The next game I tried was Gunpey EX, which is the colour variant of the most famous game on the system, and you know, I'm not a big fan of puzzle games, but this one is pretty fun and very addictive! The concept is so simple, you just have to connect the two sides of the screen with lines by swapping tiles around, but the tiles move up and you have to keep them from reaching the top of the screen, you get extra points by connecting the two sides with multiple lines, this is one of the games that you have to play with the system in portrait mode, nice music too, even if it's all just pulse waves...

I'll try to keep the next few impressions brief for the sake of not bloating this post too much:

Pocket Fighter: Another quality fighter on the system! Shame it's not in colour... This is also one of the better-sounding games on the system, very nice music! (Even if it often relies on square waves) Loved it!

Rainbow Islands: It's played in Portrait mode, and it's not in colour (kind of ironic considering the title)
It's basically what you'd expect gameplay-wise, except you play as an anime girl instead of Eric Cartman, and there's a lot of dialogue that I can't read in between stages... Not bad! But they could have used more waveforms than just Square waves...

Makaimura: It's not a straight port of Ghosts and Goblins, it's its own original game in the series, and it's pretty good! It's only in black and white though, and the music could be better... It has parallax scrolling though! Did I mention the system has 2 BG layers? Yeah, but they often used the 2nd layer for the HUD so you still don't see parallax very often...

Rockman & Forte: Again, not a straight port of the SNES game, it's another original game in the series, and it's fine I guess... I'll certainly pick it over the NES games but I don't see myself returning to this one anytime soon... If you like Megaman though, you might like this one! B&W only, and it has parallax as well...

Star Hearts: A beautiful-looking and very nice-sounding Zelda clone where you control a native-american-looking boy or girl, there's a little too much dialogue for my liking, but I could still find my way to the first dungeon even without reading any of it... I wish the screen scrolled though, yeah it's flip-screen kinda like Zelda 1 and Neutopia, but it's still pretty good!

Mr. Driller: This was my introduction to the series, it's pretty nice! You just drill downwards as much as you can while trying not to run out of air or get crushed by falling blocks...

One Piece Grand Battle Swan Colosseum: It's an one-on-one platforming fighting game with VERY smooth animations! Very well-done graphics, don't remember the sound very well... It's fun enough, I'd rather it be a traditional fighting game, but it's not bad at all...

Beat Mania: No, I'm not kidding, they've ported this to the WonderSwan, and it's actually really damn impressive! They're playing relatively high quality PCM audio on the WonderSwan, and it sounds good! This is another one that's played in portrait mode, B&W only, I sucked at it, but yeah, it's a thing that exists, and I like it!

Final Lap Special: Impressive graphics, amusing for 2 minutes... If you like Final Lap Twin you might get a kick out of this, I don't think there's an RPG mode though... No music during gameplay, what a bummer!

Golden Axe: Sucks... But then again, I've never liked Golden Axe so I might not be the best person to judge this one...

Final Fantasy IV: This is basically the closest we've got to Final Fantasy IV on the PCE, everything you'd expect from a PCE port of that game is in here, it's only in Japanese though so of course, I couldn't go very far, but the music is nice! (Not SNES nice, but then again, what is?)

CardCaptor Sakura: OMG THEY MADE A CHIPTUNE VERSION OF CATCH YOU CATCH ME~♥
Not just that song, a lot of the show's soundtrack was covered, which means I had an unhealthy amount of fangasms, eargasms and nostalgiagasms in quick succession... Can you blame me though? This was my childhood anime! I just LOOOOVE Sakura~♥
Anyway, the game is basically Galaxy Fraulein Yuna but with a (black and white) Cardcaptor Sakura coat of paint, in other words, a text/graphic adventure game with barely any meaningful interactions where you just play to see the characters that you loved from the show doing their thing, except you can't read anything if you don't know Japanese, and you're gonna win anyway because the closest thing to a fail-state is losing a battle, which I haven't yet... I still love it though, but for the same reason why I love the Yuna games, not because it's a good game, but because I get to see more of the characters I was already attached to, and hear awesome music while I'm at it~♥

I've played some more games, but none that are note-worthy as of the time I'm making this post... I'd post some videos with soundtracks as well but there's barely any Wonderswan soundtracks on YouTube...

Oh well, just check these videos if you wanna see the thing in action:

So yeah, I've only just had a couple of days with the WonderSwan, but I feel that I've just found my new favourite non-Nintendo handheld! Not like there was much competition anyways... (No, I'm not counting the Nomad and the TurboExpress, those are a different can of worms)
For the record, I've also played the Game Gear, the Neo Geo Pocket Colour and the PSP, and of those the PSP was far and away the best one, but you know, the Wonderswan has that 16 bit appeal that I love so much~

[PCE/TG-16|CD/SGX Discussion / Re: SOTN on PC Engine]

Yeah true, Konami's PSG soundtracks on the PCE weren't their best, I was mostly thinking of their SCC tunes when I commented that... Which as we've seen from ccovell's recent music disk, translate pretty well onto the PCE!

But seriously, if converted by the right person, the Contra soundtrack could sound pretty great on the PCE PSG!

(Don't look at me, if I am to do some Konami music I'll do more Twinbee...)

When it comes to NES, I'm a sunsoft tunes man myself.

Agreed whole-heartedly ;3

[PCE/TG-16|CD/SGX Discussion / Re: SOTN on PC Engine]

Oh man, can you imagine if Konami had given Contra the SCD treatment akin to Dracula X?!?

That would have been great! But I think Contra on the PCE would have been just as great even if it was just on HuCard, I mean, imagine that soundtrack on the PCE PSG ;3
The SCC proves that Konami knew how to work with wavetables~

[PCE/TG-16|CD/SGX Discussion / Re: The story behind Keith Courage]

According to this article with interviews: https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/225466/stalled_engine_the_turbografx16_.php
which is a pretty good read might I add,  they've done it to appease their big boss at the time, whose name was Keith... Not sure about the extra details you ask about though...

[Off-Topic / Re: Michirin's PCE Music Thread]

Another soundtrack that I'll probably never stop covering is Carat Magical Blocks for the PC-98!
I just REALLY LOVE these songs, they're so cheery and happy-go-lucky, just the way I like it ^^

I hope you like this cover as much as I liked making it ;3

[Off-Topic / Re: Michirin's PCE Music Thread]

It's very nice, Not my cup of tea but I appreciate it none the less.

Oh don't worry, there will be more in the future, with varying styles, so there's bound to be something that you'll like better ^^

[Off-Topic / Re: Michirin's PCE Music Thread]

Thought I was done covering music from Valkyrie the Power Beauties? Well think again!

[PCE/TG-16|CD/SGX Discussion / Re: SOTN on PC Engine]

It might look like Double Dragon 2600 but...

Either that, or you put the entire hardware inside of the cartridge and have the NES provide only the power and the input, and thus making you have to have a cable sticking out from your cartridge and connecting it to the TV, therefore completely defeating the purpose of "porting" it to the NES...

[PCE/TG-16|CD/SGX Discussion / Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?]

Just suffer through one or two levels and you're good.

Or do the sensible thing and listen to it outside of the game

[PCE/TG-16|CD/SGX Discussion / Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?]

-The best soundtrack among the ones Michirin quoted is Silver Surfer. Too bad it is sooo short. I wonder if its seemingly high fidelity contributed to keeping it short, due to space constraints?

I don't think it's short because it's too big, it uses no samples what-so-ever, everything you hear in it is just the regular old NES sound, just very well used... Granted, its sheer complexity might have swollen the file size, but I don't know about that either...

-Turbo/PCE Dragon Spirit's soundtrack is better than any soundtrack in the SNES. This is not opinion, it's fact, and if you disagree, you are wrong.

Yeah right =w=';

[PCE/TG-16|CD/SGX Discussion / Re: SOTN on PC Engine]

And to the peeps who are porting Shovel Knight to NES, the question is, why the NES?!? Is it just because of a bigger audience and it's Nintendo? Because that game would fit a million times better on the PCE, with its "fake" parallax and all.

I don't think there's anyone porting Shovel Knight to the NES, it's just that I hear a lot of people saying stuff like: "I wanna see this game on the real NES" or something like that...

Oh and, you'd probably need at least a Saturn in order to do a perfect port of Shovel Knight, and even that one wouldn't be in wide-screen... And it's not because of the assets or animations, those could probably work fine on the PC engine, except for maybe some of the bigger sprites which are still a little too smoothly animated, no, it's because of the layers upon layers of overlapping Parallax Scrolling in every single stage, and of the 8 channel soundtrack not counting sound effects (which could just be on CD or maybe be re-arranged on the PCE's PSG which would probably sound even better anyway)
There are also a ton of little effects too, particularly in the text, that would easily take up too many sprites in order to reproduce...

[PCE/TG-16|CD/SGX Discussion / Re: Favorite Systems of All Time]

Honourable mentions: Wii, 3DS, Mega Drive, X68000, Game Boy/Colour, NES, PSP.

Don't fall victim to lumping computers in with consoles!

Umm, the thread says: "Favourite Systems", it doesn't specify they have to be consoles...

[PCE/TG-16|CD/SGX Discussion / Re: Favorite Systems of All Time]

My 3 favourites are the GBA, the SNES and the PCE.

The SNES was not only my childhood passion, it still is my passion to this day! There's just so much good stuff on the system that I'm still discovering new things to play and love on it! I also find that so many of its games have aged beautifully, with 2D graphics that look so good that you could release a SNES game today and it wouldn't look any worse than it did back in the day, and the sound is the perfect middle-ground between chiptunes and real music, it's still limited enough that it sounds like chiptunes, but it also sounds more advanced than its predecessors and competitors! Love it!

The GBA is like a handheld SNES on-steroids! It can do practically everything the SNES can, and then some, but without any slow-down, and you can play it anywhere you want without having to worry about your battery dying so soon! cough3DScoughSwitch
As if playing excellent conversions of some of my favourite SNES games anywhere I want isn't already good enough, the system is chock-full of original titles that are just as good as, if not better than some of the best 3rd and 4th gen classics! I've also made it no secret that I LOVE GBA sound, I know a lot of people don't, but I can't help but to find its unique mix of bit-crushed samples with GB chiptunes to be absolutely delightful! I like to say that it was the last game system to have its own "sound identity" because of that, but I guess to most people that's for the better...

The PCE is one I've discovered later, (Thanks Wii!) but it's blown me away with the sheer quality of so many of its titles! I'm a big fan of games that push hardware limits, and the PCE is the perfect middle-ground to have limits being pushed left and right while still managing to make games that look, sound and play great! Because of that, I like to think of the PCE as the most impressive game system that I've played... And of course, I can't not mention the sound! The CD audio was good and all, but the chiptunes are where it's at! They're kinda like NES and GB tunes, but taken to the next level! Having the ability to make your own waveforms, as well as more sound channels not only opens so many possibilities, but it's also MUCH easier to work with and get the sounds that you want than, say, the FM synth you get on the Mega Drive... I'm proud to be a dedicated PCE chiptuner ;3

Honourable mentions: Wii, 3DS, Mega Drive, X68000, Game Boy/Colour, NES, PSP.

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Binary Star, a musicdisk for the PCE with SCC (MSX) tunes!]

This is great! It's always nice to have more music to listen to on the PCE ;3
Thanks for this ccovell ^^
Also, nice visual effects!

[PCE/TG-16|CD/SGX Discussion / Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?]

Yeah, but if you were to go to a concert, would you seriously rather go to a chiptune recording?

Because that's just a nightclub at that point, lol.

I'd probably only go if it was either an Eurobeat one or a Vocaloid one...
I mean, I've never gone to a concert, but given your aforementioned experience with chiptune concerts, that sounds like it just wouldn't be worth it...

[PCE/TG-16|CD/SGX Discussion / Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?]

I guess I should me more specific more often? Here's the thing though, my taste is really broad and eclectic, and it's hard to be specific when you like so many things that are so different from one another... Here's an example:

If you just say I like Capcom's SNES music, we can't get a good handle on what you like.  Demon's Crest sounds nothing like Street Fighter 2 sounds nothing like MegaMan X sounds nothing like Knights of the Round.

and Super Ghouls and Ghosts just sounds like a toy piano in a store on demonstration mode.   

Yeah, they sound nothing alike, but I like all of them...
Even if they "sound like a Toy Piano", but to me, that's only part of the charm!

Also, I sometimes wonder if you're actually serious when you say that you'd rather listen to chipstuff over real stuff or however it was you worded it.

I actually do listen to chiptunes on my MP3 player all the time, while going to work, while going to college, while waiting in lines, while drawing, I've got lots of soundtracks from SNES, GBA, PCE, DS, X68000 and PC-98 games, among others, that I've either recorded or downloaded somewhere, and I actually do enjoy it more than "real music"...
How can I say it... I guess the less real it sounds, the more it appeals to me, but when it starts to sound primitive then it also starts to lose part of said appeal...

Heck, the majority of the music with lyrics I even listen to are sung by Vocaloids! (And UTAU and CeVIO) Anything else is either Eurobeat (because it's HYPE) or some old anime music...

[PCE/TG-16|CD/SGX Discussion / Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?]

On the other hand, Arkhan, if you're trying to get more info out of Michirin as to WHY she has the opinions she does, beating her over the head is not going to do it. That's not friendly engagement. That's aggression. Being "right" doesn't excuse it. An opportunity to explore why we like what we like is wasted because now everyone's defensive and ready to punch.

*shrug*,  the info came out.  I don't really think the first post was so bad, and received a defensive  self righteous reply.   It's not really out of line with the tone other people use, including michirin.

Besides, If I didn't ask, nobody else sure as fuck was going to bother.    There'd just be people scrolling by going yepyepyep opinions yepbrblrbrlrbyep because this forum has practically devolved into a circle jerk where nothing cool gets talked about anymore most of the time.

The problem is that you pretty much always come across as a jerk, at least when answering to me...

It's harder to pin-point why I don't like something than it is to say why I like something, and saying "I like so and so more" still makes sense, I don't need your agreement, your approval, or even your understanding, all I want is to express my opinion without being harassed for it... And I DO say why I like the things that I do, and it's not just the "adverb-laden praise" you take it as, did I not say that I like Final Fight 3's music because I like its instrumentation, because it's very layered, because pretty much every instrument plays its own melody and it somehow fits in together like clockwork, because there's a lot of variety in the sound and because it's geniusly composed? Is that not explaining why I like it? Same with the games from the other companies I've mentioned, I like Sunsoft's music not only because it's well-composed, but because it really takes advantage of the NES's sound hardware without having to use extra soundchips in the cartridge, and I like several other NES soundtracks because of their more nuanced instrumentation than whatever Capcom did on the NES...

I'll give Capcom this much though, it's not their fault that I've grown a distaste for their NES music style, it's just that said style is SO overused and overexposed that I'm sick of hearing it, everyone and their moms wants to make music like they did... I guess that just goes to show how popular they are...

Also, mentioning the names of a few companies is easier than name-dropping god-only-knows how many games they've put out on the system in question, and being a retro-gaming-connoisseur you should have an idea of what I'm talking about when I name-drop said companies...

[PCE/TG-16|CD/SGX Discussion / Re: SOTN on PC Engine]

because porting a retro throwback to a vintage console is an oxymoron.

are we about to get in an infinite loop here.

Tell that to the people who want to see Shovel Knight on the NES...
But I don't see anything wrong with either...

[PCE/TG-16|CD/SGX Discussion / Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?]

I don't think I should have to explain why I have an opinion in order to have and express it, but since you demand it...
Other than having occasional detuned reverb and triangle toms, which a lot of other non-Capcom games also do on the NES, what does NES Capcom music do to stand-out? It's really well-composed, sure, but it does nothing else, their instruments are just straight pulses, they don't really do any interesting effects, no vibrato/tremolo, no changing the duty-cycle or octave mid-instrument, no samples, barely any volume manipulation, no splitting percussion duties between the noise and triangle or pulse channels (other than the aforementioned Toms, which don't even have noise backup, and I personally think are a little too high-pitched) as spenoza said:

Capcom always focused solely on composition and did very little custom programming and manipulation with the NES sound hardware.

They basically rely entirely on composition to make their music interesting, and the compositions are often good! But the instrumentation isn't at all interesting to me... Is it lazy? Perhaps that was a little harsh, but I still think that most of the best-sounding NES games aren't from Capcom, and that's because they took better advantage of what the system can do... They can have put god-only-knows how much effort into making their instruments sound the way they do, but what came out of it still doesn't match up to what some other NES games managed to pull off...

And it's not like you need samples to make NES music sound good (although that helps a lot) just listen to what Tim Follin did, and I'm not talking about the arps, I'm talking about how he managed to make really great-sounding percussion by splitting its duty between the Noise and the Triangle, and he also often backed the triangle up with a pulse in order to give it even more punch and bass!

Need examples? Sure!
First off, some Sample-tastic Sunsoft Tunes:

^You can't get much better than this on the NES! (Without using extra-soundchips at least)

But you can get close:

And that's just the tip of the iceberg...

Also, neither Final Fight 1 nor 2 have bad soundtracks, I never said that,

Other than the first two Final Fight games their SNES soundtracks are all amazing!

   Nice one, dummy.

Tell me, where is there an instance of me clearly stating: "Final Fight 1 and 2 have bad soundtracks" or something like that?
Barring them from "amazing" and saying "They're bad" is not the same thing, dummy...
They serve their in-game purpose well, but unlike FF3, MMX, MM7, SF2 and Demon's Crest, among others, they're not something I'd go out of my way to listen to outside of the game...

Also, "Yes, your opinion can be wrong, because this article by a person with an opinion said so"
You wanna discuss music taste? Everything is subjective, but of all the subjective things nothing is more so than music taste, you can ask somebody "Why do you like Pop music?" they may not be able to pin-point why, but just telling them that it's s*** and showing them some metal bollocks and telling them: "You should be listening to this! THIS is real good music, the music you like sucks because blahblahblah, and this music is good because blahblahblah" that's not gonna change their mind, that's only gonna make them want to dislike whatever you're showing them, and make them like the music they already like even more, even though you still think it's s***...

And guess what? They're not "wrong" for liking it, they'll never be, and their opinions don't "suck" because they're different from yours, or from a pre-established consensus, anyone can like whatever they want, and that's their own business, and if they can't explain why, SO WHAT? Why should they have to?

[PCE/TG-16|CD/SGX Discussion / Re: SOTN on PC Engine]

you should probably say that instead next time, then, or use a better example.

like putting Bloodlines on PCE, or CV3.

Perhaps? But I love Rebirth so why not?

[PCE/TG-16|CD/SGX Discussion / Re: SOTN on PC Engine]

Looks fine, but I'd rather see Castlevania Rebirth on the PCE...

Putting a throwback on a vintage console is an oxymoron.

No.

The point is that if it is to put another Castlevania game on the system, I'd rather it be a Classic-style one rather than a Metroidvania one...

[PCE/TG-16|CD/SGX Discussion / Re: Favorite Namco PCE game?]

I'm sorry, you're wrong and need to tell your ears to try harder.

I can't be wrong about having an opinion.
The only "wrong" thing is dismissing someone else's opinion as "wrong" because it's different from yours...

Yes, I'm enamoured by lo-fi samples, and there's nothing wrong with that, I'll take lo-fi rock/orchestral instrument samples over real rock or "NES chipwank" any day, and that's my honest-to-goodness opinion that you can't simply say "you're wrong" and hope to change my mind...

Also, neither Final Fight 1 nor 2 have bad soundtracks, I never said that, I said they were the exception to the whole "Capcom had good instruments on the SNES" thing, yes, I know they've reused some instruments from other games, pretty much all devs do that sometimes, but the way they were used in other games like Street Fighter and Mega Man X just pleased my ears more than they do in Final Fight 1 and 2...

And the thing about Final Fight 3's soundtrack is that it's just SO layered and has SO much stuff going on at once, they basically have each instrument playing its own melody at once, and it all ends up somehow fitting so neatly together like clockwork! That soundtrack is not only GENIUSly composed, it's also got some of the best instrumentation they've used on the system! (Which to me means "ever" because to my ears nothing sounds better than the SNES ;3)

You disagree? Fine! Have your opinion, unlike you I'll not give you s*** for it, you can like and dislike whatever you want...