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[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Henshin Engine Game for TurboGrafx-16/PC Engine]

Redbook allows for any "feeling" you want. It "just" allows for the best possible music, and that's all I care about and what MOST care about...

As I told, redbook has no feeling. It's just a medium to put what you want on it. There no best possible music. Redbook is not better than PSG, it's just another way to play music for video game.

PSG can't reproduce real instruments, but it has his own feeling. Redbook have it's cons too. Music looping problem, it take full CD drive access and your are unable to load data during playback. Each loading shutdown the music...

Like Bonknuts said "these new development tools aren't geared towards practical music solutions for homebrew or just game development in general"

Or Gredler "Elaborate chiptunes are particularly difficult to do still, but there are also very few people available who can make them with the existing tools."

These is valid points. Making chiptune is dificult thing, I understand that. But do not tell me that the redbook audio is the best way to "make" music on PC-Engine, this totally wrong. Redbook has been dropped even on platforms who used a lot, like Mega-CD or Saturn. The streaming took place over impractical redbook.

I'm not interested in lost causes like purposefully grinding down great music to the blips and beeps of chiptune standards for the sake of capturing the "retroness" of carts or HuCards, etc. It's a CD game and will take full advantage of CD standards, including Redbook audio tracks.

You not grinding down the music when you start to develop on chip directly. I do not speak about possible conversion from redbook to PSG. But make the BGM directly from PSG and use the pro and cons of the chip. ANd you can also use redbook too. One does not prevent the other.

Whatever floats your boat though. The composer and developer are likely not interested in ruining their music, so there's your simple answer. You think Ryo Yonemitsu would've appreciated great Ys tracks like "The Boy Who Had Wings" getting grinded down to PSG style ? I doubt it...

Nonsense ! First, if it's too tricky to develop sound engine to play music through PC-Engine audio processor, the best way still the redbook. Second, PSG does not ruin music if your whole composition is dedicated for it. Your example with Ryo Yonemitsu is not valid, YS use both PSG and redbook. Redbook is used because it offers a good deal at a time where sound synthesis rules the vidéo game music.

Oh noooo, what a crime! Heh. The trade-off is the user will get the best possible music the human ear can process, but less challenge for the hardware...  So the "problem" is what exactly ?? ...

Ok ok... for you the same tune is better on CD than PSG... so the same tune is better on DVD than CD ? And better on bluray than DVD... hummm, and it's me that passionately argue over in a senseless argumentative fashion... 

Dr Wily, when people reference things like "HuC", the point they're making is that homebrew PC Engine development is very challenging and the dev kits licensed developers used bitd are unavailable. Elaborate chiptunes are particularly difficult to do still, but there are also very few people available who can make them with the existing tools.

Good point ! I prefer this argument that approaches the truth.

What?

also, you don't need to just use "90s synths", as games back then also used studio rock bands.

Unless you think I'd need to go buy strictly 1980s musical gear to record a studio rock soundtrack for a game, in order for it to be authentic?

You don't understand. When I told about "90s synths" this was in response to :

"To me, Redbook audio is what captures the true feel of a Turbo/PC Engine CDROM game"

The redbook captures nothing. The real true feel of a PC Engine CDROM game came from japanese video game music style of this time. The vast majority of PC-Engine CD soundtracks are made from typical synth sound from nineties. THIS is the feeling of PC-Engine CD BGM not redbook. Redbook is just a "container".

Also, the Henshin Engine soundtrack isn't chiptunes.

It's "chiptunes".

It's that stuff people started doing recently that sounds chip inspired but is full of all kinds of non-chip things.

It's an ersatz. You can make food with chemical components or you can make it with natural products. Same thing for chiptune.

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Henshin Engine Game for TurboGrafx-16/PC Engine]

-More CPU time required

irrelevant, many game especially shooters use PSG with a lot of scrolling and sprite + BGM music with sometime PCM sounds.

-More work required to get sound effects working; music channels have to be cut temporarily to allow sound effects to play

More work to develop sound engine OK. Channels cut it's not a problem with 6 channels + IFU's PCM. Don't forget that the limitations is a part of the chiptune feeling. If you make a retro game on real hardware push the trip to the bitter end.
 

-More space in RAM required that could be better-used for other things

Hey, I feel here not be honest with yourself. Which System Card Henshin Engine uses ? The System card 3.0 I suppose. There is 2 Megabits of RAM in there + internal RAM, this is not enough to put few kilobyte of sound code ?

These are all important details when using HuC, of which Henshin Engine's code is about 90% (about 10% assembly). On top of that, the overwhelming majority of CD-based games back in the heyday of the PCE used Redbook audio.

The overwhelming majority of CD-based games used redbook only because it's new and surprising at this time compare to chip music + easier to develop than coding music on metal.

Also, "nowadays" is irrelevant; we are still using the same technology as they used "back then"... it's not like the PCE has been upgraded. ;)

You don't understand, it's not tech speaking but historical context speaking. At this time, the majority of music was hardware produced with electronic feeling with beep and blop. When a sound designer chose to put BGM using redbook he uses "real" instruments to make the diference versus "primitive" chiptune. This is a step forward for the gamers side "the music is more realistic" and they understand advantage of audio CD VS chip music.

But nowadays there is no advantage for using CD VS chip music and the fake progress of redbook in video game became irrelevant.

And today, you put chiptune on redbook whereas at the time, nobody would have thought to put chip music on redbook. Because chip music is produced by a chip and "real" music is recorded on redbook. There is a nonsense here no ?

To me, Redbook audio is what captures the true feel of a Turbo/PC Engine CDROM game, as you were getting only chiptune music from every other game console you owned growing up in that era like NES, SNES, N64, Genesis, etc. all the portables, etc.

Redbook has no feeling. Is just a medium. And if you want the true feeling of PC-ENgine CD you must record some 90' synth, not chiptune.

With more than half the games on CD (most of which using at least some redbook tracks if not all), it's stupid to say redbook is 'fake'.  Good music is good music, regardless of whether it's chip generated or not.

Yes your right, good music is good music regardless of whether it produce. But I prefer a singer in live compared to a guy who sings in playback. Redbook is playback and does not use all PC-Engine hardware.

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Henshin Engine Game for TurboGrafx-16/PC Engine]

The only time I was OK with an *exclusively* chip (PSG) soundtrack on a CD-ROM was when (1) all the data was used for Red Book audio accompanying cinemas and/or (2) all the data was used for compressed video...

An other way to think : keep the feeling of the platform. Redbook audio does not uses specifics audio abilities of the hardware. It's just audio CD.

Otherwise, I was always disappointed when a developer didn't take advantage of the opportunity for Red Book soundtrack.

Because sound devellopers kept the feeling of the soundchip. Recent example like Pier Solar. It uses Mega-CD's soundchip or Genesis' YM2610. (Sonic CD or Popful Mail are also good examples) On PC-Engine you can use PCE's sound chip + IFU's PCM sound chip. Redbook is an easiness.
   

In short, the Henshin Engine soundtrack blends the best of both worlds—PSG "inspired" songs that have the chiptune aesthetic at their core, but with composer free to be more creative than a purely PSG soundtrack.

The quality is not the "purity" of the sound but the arrangements, by using abilities of the sound chip. There no good or low quality between redbook and hardware produced music. Just a different approach.

Listen at Magical Chase BGM Magical Chase,

Street Fighter II
 SSF2

or Snatcher Snatcher.

These games have wonderful soundtrack only using sequenced music with the HU6280.
   

I hear you, though... It would be amazing to have a complete Red Book *and* PSG soundtrack that could be switched back and forth "on the fly" (see Vasteel)... But that would be placing a *ridiculous* additional burden on an already-burdened development team.

That is a best argument than "I was always disappointed when a developer didn't take advantage of the opportunity for Red Book"
At the time, redbook was used by the devolopers because it more simple to compose music for than to program directly a sound chip.

But nowadays, the chiptune became acceptable. It's no more a gap between "real audio" and "electronic rendered audio". For preserve the authenticity of the support, you may use real chiptune, not a fake BGM simply recorded on audio CD.

[Localizations, Games, Apps, Docs / Re: Henshin Engine Game for TurboGrafx-16/PC Engine]

Why this game does not use chip music instead redbook audio ?

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: REPAIR GUIDE - TG16 CD/PCE CD laser swap guide (pictorial)]

Hello,

There is a place to find KSS-220a laser ? I have two CD-ROM unit with dead laser and no solution to find replacement. Any tips ?

Thanks

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: CD interface pinout?]

up this thread, I search the pinout too.