Messages

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Analog vs Dig ground and RGB noise..]

Just completed an RGB mod to my IFU-30 using the popular THS7374 RGB amp. on my PVM, it looks flawless but on xrgb mini slight jailbars. When I turn on LPF (GAME1 mode) they go away.

From experience, this is a ground issue. So I started probing around and trying to solve the issue. I noticed that expansion port has 2 types of ground - digital and analog. The audio jacks in IFU-30 get their ground from digital gnd!!  I tried moving gnd to amp and din port to analog gnd and the jail bars got much much worst.

The least jailbars are when rgb amp is next to expansion port with gnd from digital gnd and din out gets gnd from audio port port next to it.

thoughts? why 2 types of gnd and they are not connected!

oh. the pc engine of course had tim's jailbar cap fix done.

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: REPAIR GUIDE - Laseractive NEC PAC-N1 / N10: Total capacitor replacement chart]

there's a good flow diagram in service manual (full pdf on console5 wiki) that shows initialization logic. It's interesting that any failure resilts in "eject tray". ;)

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: REPAIR GUIDE - Laseractive NEC PAC-N1 / N10: Total capacitor replacement chart]

As per service manual, its part of its initialization routine. Laser sees CD first but then doesnt see it anymore. timer runs out and ejects tray.

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: REPAIR GUIDE - Laseractive NEC PAC-N1 / N10: Total capacitor replacement chart]

OMG! I FIXED IT! BY MISTAKE I FIGURED OUT WHAT IT IS!!! THIS MIGHT EFFECT OTHERS AND HAS NOT BEEN DOCUMENTED BEFORE!!

Background:

On the body of the laser unit, between the laser lens and front of the system, is a copper tab sticking out.  Between that copper tab and towards the middle of the system is a thin copper wire.  On this thin copper wire is a small piece of square copper just hanging there.

Problem:

The laser moves all the way to the spindle, and detects it's a compact disc.  But that copper tab and square should go UNDER the hub of the CD spinner.  If they are bent a bit up, they hit the side/face of the hub.  This causes the entire laser lens to twist almost 30 degrees to the disc!  The laser no longer sees the surface of the disc, player thinks something is wrong, and ejects the disc.

Solution:

Very carefully, push down on the copper tab so it's more parallel/level.  The tab has to go UNDER the hub (black circle that spins the disc).  If it's kept flat, laser detects the disc and motor will start spinning the CD and all will be fine.

Solution 2:

Replace the entire laser assembly.

I wonder how many good lasers were thrown out because of this flaw!

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: REPAIR GUIDE - Laseractive NEC PAC-N1 / N10: Total capacitor replacement chart]

sorry. No laserdisc and motor does spin freely.

Can you email me pics and I'll upload them? I'm leonki@gmail.com

I was originally thinking it has to be something in the PSU. 14/-14V go to main video board. There an op amp uses the 14V under directions from a processor to spin up and run the main motor. If 14/-14V is mission, I think most of the system will still work (as it mostly uses 5V)

I could be down the wrong path. But then again, solid state devices don't tend to fail from shipping. Loose parts makes more sense!!

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: REPAIR GUIDE - Laseractive NEC PAC-N1 / N10: Total capacitor replacement chart]

More testing .. more results.

- I tested every fuse on the power board.  All good.
- The boot process is as following:

No disc:
- laser rail comes up
- laser moves to track 1 position
- laser detects no disc
- moves back down

With CD:
- laser rail comes up
- laser moves to track 1 position
- laser white eye moves up down and stops
- Tv shows "Compact Disc"
- after a few seconds the disc ejects!

At no point did the CD ever spin!!  On some rare cases (once every 20 tries or so) the disc does spin! But then stops and ejects.  So I can't imagine it's any of the fuses (fuse either blown or not blown)

NOTE: This is the Japanese LA being plugged into USA mains.  But that should not be a problem as it worked this way for YEARS (I think the first thing after the fuse is it runs into a transformer that converts it to DC power).  The only thing that recently changed was it got shipped to me across the country and I have video of it working before shipping.   

So the problem is either bad motor or something else.  I believe the motor gets its power from the main power supply board (red/green wire that plugs into 2 pin molex closest to back of LA). 

I get the same behaviour when that molex is unplugged.  So I put my voltmeter on in.  Always reads 0V.  On the rare case it spun, it read up to 8V, but never steady voltage (a lot of bouncing around). and then down to 0V and tray ejected.

At this point, I'm thinking it's once of the power regulators on the power PCB under that shield.  I traced one of the pins on that connector to a cap, resistor, and then regulator there.

I've made a youTube video showing the problem:

Thanks for any suggestions you guys might have.

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: REPAIR GUIDE - Laseractive NEC PAC-N1 / N10: Total capacitor replacement chart]

More info:  Tested F101 / F102 on main power board (under silver cover) and they're good

The CD spinner drives plugs into power board (red/green wire) Once in a while it actually does spin (not always) and voltage goes up to 8V on it but tray still ejects.

Is this a sign of a bad laser?  Is it possible for laser to see disc but not play it?

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: REPAIR GUIDE - Laseractive NEC PAC-N1 / N10: Total capacitor replacement chart]

Hi. I got my laseractive today. The seller showed me video of it working but of course it doesn't now. PAC games work fine but I got no spin on CD.

When I put in music CD, the laser moves to the first track and screen says "compact disc" and CD light is on. When I press play, the disc just ejects. At no point does it ever spin.

With PCE CD games (with super system card in hu slot) the laser mech cycles a few times, disc never spins and eventually I see "set disc" error.

suggestions?

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: PC Engine Duo - No disc spin: not pots and new laser?]

why would you replace the op-amp?

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: PC Engine Duo - No disc spin: not pots and new laser?]

good to know. So you soak it to warm soappy water, use a soft brush, rinse it again and let it dry. correct?

What about the super cap for memory backup? It's got voltage stored there!

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: PC Engine Duo - No disc spin: not pots and new laser?]

Silly question:

How does washing the board might make it work? I recently did a cap kit on a Duo (cleaned all the pads from old solde; it was cleaned with qtip and alcohol). Added fresh solder and tacked down new caps. Everything worked except for disc.

Ended shipping it to theSteve and he said all he did was wash the board and all is well now.

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: Calling theSteve - PC Engine LT & GT repair required]

Trying to get thesteve on PM.. he hasn't replied yet.  Wanted to make sure he's just away (rather than the msg not getting through because of something silly I might have done).  Mental note folks! Don't send PM msgs on your iPhone. 

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: Calling theSteve - PC Engine LT & GT repair required]

thesteve - sent you a PM.  Let me know if you didn't get it. 

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: Weird faint diagonal scrolling interference on RGB modded PCE DUO]

It's your SCART cable.  You're picking up noise from the 5V line.

Change cables that have better shielding.

[Buy/Sell/Trade / WTB: PCE Duo manual..]

Anyone got one they won't mind selling? PM me.

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: Turbo Express - Fishy smell !?]

The unit went back to the customer. After washing down the pcb with 99% alcohol, I wrapped it with dryer sheets and left it sealed in a plastic freezer bag for 12 hours. Smell is gone and customer is super happy. When he initially got it, his entire car stank from it!!

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: Radial vs SMD capacitors on Turbo Express]

I totally understand.  That is what I'm trying to do here - have an open minded technical discussion.

Just because something "works" doesn't mean it proper, or safe.  I can stick a quarter into my fuse panel and the electricity will flow .. it doesn't mean that it's a proper, safe solution that everyone should now do if they blow a fuse!

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: Radial vs SMD capacitors on Turbo Express]

having done several TE with SMD ceramic and tantalum caps i assure you they dont add hum, they actually reduce it

i liken can replacement with SMD replacement to all the different "hacks" people were attempting to reduce Jailbars with NEC consoles. It wasn't until Tim Worthington, in my opinion a brilliant electronics engineer, approached the problem from a fundamental electronics point of view that we now have (what I believe to be) a universal solution (with explaination) to that problem.

When another brilliant engineer (Dave Jones) puts out a video explaining why replacing cans with SMD sometimes is a bad idea, and proves it with measurements on oscilloscopes and calculating on the white board using proven electronics equations; I listen.

I just wanted to bring this up because there are some really good modders out there, but it doesn't mean they're good electronics engineers that can design circuit boards from scratch. I for one know I couldn't.

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: Radial vs SMD capacitors on Turbo Express]

Ceramic caps existed back then but were more expensive than they are today. Not sure they had them in the high values like they do today either.

I'm not talking about the 220 or 470uF caps. I'm talking about the 0.47, 4.7 and the most common 10 and 22. They all existed back then and were readily available.

My concern is when every single cap is replaced with SMD. In Express my biggest worry is in the audio amp. SMD caps are know to introduce an audible hum. That's why cans are still used today for this application.

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: Radial vs SMD capacitors on Turbo Express]

Many of us use ceramic capacitors to replace the electrolytics SMDs.  Super clean and surprisingly easy to install.

Just because you can do it, and it "works" doesn't mean what you're doing is correct. You can also keep most caps off and it will "work".

EEVBlog a year ago had a very good video on ceramic capacitors and what some people might not know about their capacitance. In particular, how the capacitance can shift by as much as 80% just by introducing a DC bias. Given that most of these caps are used as power smoothing caps (and at least one is for audio!!!) you better believe there's a DC offset, and many times close to the limit of these ceramic caps!!

Bottom line:

- ceramic caps existed when these units were made
- there are ceramic caps on the PCB already
- audio amps always use alumn elecrlytic caps (even today)
- NEC engineers decided to use alumn elect instead of ceramic for a reason. i personally would not presume to know more than they did. On my express, my goal was to restore the unit. Not make my life easier for the install.

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: Turbo Express - Fishy smell !?]

WOW.. the technical level of this thread just went to 0.

Thanks!   

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Turbo Express - Fishy smell !?]

I recently got a Turbo Express in for a cap kit.  No big deal, remove the old caps, clean all the pads, solder on cap kit I got from console5.  The weird thing is that the "fishy smell" (you all know what that smells like) is still there!

I washed the board pretty damn good with dozens of q-tips and 99 percent alcohol.  The old solder from the pads was removed, and new applied.  The board was super clean before I hit it with the cap kit.

The strangest thing, it's coming from only 1 spot - where the backlight for the LCD plugs in.  I'm wondering, maybe some IC there failing??  The console works great after the cap kit.

Ideas? Suggestions?

[Buy/Sell/Trade / Re: WTB: PCE Duo pack-in paper work ..]

Darn it. My box and console have matching serial numbers.

Now if I wasn't so attached to paperwork.

[Buy/Sell/Trade / WTB: PCE Duo pack-in paper work ..]

Just acquired a CIB PCE Duo in the box.  Just missing manual and all the other paperwork that came in the box.

Anyone got this that won't mind selling?  What is it worth?

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: PC Engine 'Jail Bar' Video Noise - repair guide by Tim W]

I finally tried this jailbar fix (with 1206 and then 0805 caps) and noticed no difference on the 2 PCE (original) that I tried, and on a Core Grafx it made them worse! I don't have a Duo to try it with.
I thought this might be a good solution to the problem but I feel disappointed now. How have others fared with their "repairs"?

Sounds like you did something wrong. Tim actually owns an original white PCE and what he used to figure this out.

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: PC Engine 'Jail Bar' Video Noise - repair guide by Tim W]

The biggest issue is would it fit on the pads. Don't want the caps to be too big.

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: PC Engine 'Jail Bar' Video Noise - repair guide by Tim W]

Parts came in from Digikey and I gave it a shot.  OMG for the first time, my Turbografx-16 is CLEAN.  Can't see any jailbars at all!! 

Here's the part I ordered:

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?keywords=445-2873-ND

I desoldered/removed the through hole caps and used these in its place.  For other systems, here's the SMD equivalent:

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?keywords=1276-2873-1-ND

[Console Repair/Mod Center / PC Engine 'Jail Bar' Video Noise - repair guide by Tim W]

Put together by Tim Worthington of NESRGB fame himself!!

etim.net.au/av-driver/pcebars/

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: I think I killed my DUO-RX when RGB modding]

The problem is you tried to lift 1 leg at a time!  The correct solution now is to use a hot air reflow station to remove the entire IC.  Clean the board, see whats broken and test the IC.  Then, if the IC is good, solder it down and repair.

If legs are broken / missing, get a new IC from a donor board and transfer it over.  This is very common repair process with arcade PCB's, just now applied to a Duo.

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: I think I killed my DUO-RX when RGB modding]

 

Turbo Duo RX are not cheap. Unless you have the proper professional equipment to solder with such fine pitch, leave it to an expert modder. It will cost you less than the price of now replacing that duo.

From personal experience, fixing botched solder jobs on SOIC ICs is more effort than installing the RGB mod. A lot of the via's (if they exist. Sometimes they're under other ICs) requires you to remove the solder mask first. That is assuming you didn't kill the graphic processor at this point.

You need help from one of the pros now. Sorry.

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution]

I did this mod to my USA TG16.  It uses Tim Worthington's AV Driver as the RGB amp.  I added the 2 ceramic caps to pins 41/42 and pin 43.  I also replaced C142 with a 220uF cap.

The jailbars went from very visible (same as on Turbo Duo) down to 2-5% visible.  You need to look for them hard, but you'll find them.  Regular players will never see them during normal game play.  On Turbo Duo I simply can't find them in the same spots.

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution]

Hey NightWolf, thanks for the pic. Couple of personal suggestions:

- those are ceramic capacitors. They have no polarity. Assigning +/- makes no sense. I would actually emphesize to purchase +/- 20% caps rather than than ones that go up to 80%
- ground is ground. There's no such thing as better ground than another one. If you had "different" grounds you'd have a potential difference. Bad things happen in circuit boards (shorts, fires, death)
I think the massive ground plain which the caps connect to now is sufficient.

Csync vs other syncs issues is not native to NEC consoles. Other RGB modded consoles have similar issues. The "fix" discussed in this thread simply puts the Duo on the same playing field as others. Whichever solution one uses for sync on other consoles should employ here as well.

Personally, I'm not a fan of taking functionality away. removing composite video makes no sense to me.  There is another solution. But will require custom cables:

- remove L/R audio from DIN
- add csync to new vacant pin
- add 3.5mm jack for stereo

You basically recreated a Sega Genesis Model 1. Audio (theoretically) will sound better as it will have its own seperate path rather than crammed in with everything else.

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution]

As KC already mentioned, CSYNC vs Composite Video sync very much depends on your display device.  Luckily, PVMs can sync on CSYNC, composite video, luma and even sync on green! 

I was wondering, if someone uses composite video sync SCART cables with a sync stripper in the SCART end, will it show the same result as real CSYNC?  If so, the sync switch will not be needed!

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution]

That's correct, it a Sony 20" PVM.  I use an 8 pin DIN in place of the original 5 pin on the black Duo.  I wanted to make sure all original cables still work, so there is no CSYNC at the adapter, the PVM uses composite video sync.

The cable connects to a female SCART connector that goes to RCA audio + BNC R/G/B/Sync into the TV. 

Thesteve .. thanks for answering all my PM's!!

[Console Repair/Mod Center / PCE Turbo Duo RGB - No jailbars - working solution]

Of all the RGB modded systems I've done over the past few years, none are as prone to vertical jailbars as the Turbo Duo / TG16.  I've tried many different RGB amps and they all exhibit the exact same output.  The jailbars are introduced into the video stream before the RGB amp.  I would like to thank thesteve from pcenginefx forum for figuring most of this stuff out.  He knows his obey stuff like no one else.  Thanks dude.

Now onto the guide.  There's actually multiple modifications you need to do to your Turbo Duo to get absolutely jailbar free RGB output.

1.  HU6260 modification

/66C72724-CAA5-42E4-9FAD-B3B299605015.jpg

As per http://pcengine.freeforums.org/jailbar-fix-t233.html you will need to add 2 capacitors to pin 41/42 and pin 43.  (ignore the 3 wires - they're there for the RGB mod)

I used the following capacitors: http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?keywords=1276-3300-1-ND - 22uF SMD ceramic capacitors.  Rated at 16V.

2.  C961 Capacitor

The original capacitor at this location is rated 10uF 16V.  Replace it with a 220uF 16V capacitor

Digikey link:  http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?keywords=493-5357-1-ND

3. Better grounding on 8 pin DIN port

/812D7C8E-A332-4C7A-A337-842EEC70BAE5.jpg

If you replaced the stock 5 pin DIN port with an 8 pin DIN port, you need to improve the grounding.  As is, the GND pin goes though a choke. You need to bypass the choke.  Because the ground is shared by all the other pins, the choke causes inverted crosstalk.

The results:  (please ignore the horizontal lines - it's hard to capture a good picture off a CRT / Sony PVM).

Before: (note the vertical jail bars in the sky)

/63695981-F30E-45F1-9CE9-794E3A2FC126.jpg

After: (all clean!!)

/5ACA2F25-B29C-46A2-84B1-5F747B1189AD.jpg

[Buy/Sell/Trade / WTB: PCE Duo controller ..]

Anyone got a spare they care to sell?

[PCE/TG-16|CD/SGX Discussion / Re: Question for the Obey-historians]

That poster was not in my TG-16 box when I bought it in '89. There was a 8.5" x 11" welcome card, instruction manuals, a Turbo Play ad, and a warranty card.

Where was this system purchased? USA? New or used?

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: Update 7805 to OKI-78SR-5 for heat reduction]

I don't subscribe to "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" mentality.Following this logic people should wait till all the caps in their Duo/TGE leak all over the PCB and rot the traces before doing any sort of preventative maintenance.

Switching power supplies (what this is) have been here since the 80's (unlike the linear 7805 whose been here since the '40s if not earlier). It's a lot more efficient (doesn't waste electricity) and a lot more resilient (can take up to 35V input!) and puts out clean 1.5A of current(which is needed if you use FPGA based devices in your retro consoles - like everdrive)

I noticed that my Sega NOMAD with LCD mod would shut down after 2 hours of usage (using micro surface mount linear transformer) when I put this in there it ran for 8 hours before I just turned it off.

Use it, don't use it, up to you. I tell all my customers about it and they all agree with the extra fee for the upgrade.

[Buy/Sell/Trade / Re: WTB: 9 pin mini DIN female plug ..]

Found it!

Digikey part number:  CP-2290-ND

Now, anyone got a lead on the 8 pin DIN used in Turbo Duo mod?

[Buy/Sell/Trade / Re: WTB: 9 pin mini DIN female plug ..]

Aliexpress.com?

arggg.. back to same Chinese sellers with no paypal protection.   

[Buy/Sell/Trade / Re: WTB: 9 pin mini DIN female plug ..]

Depends on where you live. I usually get all my electronics stuff from Reichelt Elektronik, which often turns out cheaper than buying from Chinese eBay sellers. Reichelt's customer service and packaging is excellent, too.
http://www.reichelt.com
Beware though they have some cost threshold you have to surpass when ordering.

!?! They don't ship to Canada or USA!

[Buy/Sell/Trade / WTB: 9 pin mini DIN female plug ..]

Want to do RGB mod to a TG16, need to replace the current mini DIN port with a 9 pin one (similar to one used by Sega model 2).  I've been buying these on eBay before, but the Chinese sellers aren't as reliable as they once were (had to file paypal refunds twice now after 6 weeks of waiting!!)

Any reliable place where I can buy these? Anyone got any spares?

[Buy/Sell/Trade / Re: Turbografx-16/PC-Engine RGB Amp Now Available for Sale]

turbokon: Does this amp remove the faint jail bars that seem to plague the TG16 in RGB mod? If not, what do you suggest someone can do to fix it?

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: PCEGT replace with 3.5inch TFT LCD]

Any good instructions with pictures on how to mod the system to fit the bigger LCD screen?

[Buy/Sell/Trade / Re: PRICE CHECK: boxed complete USA turbo duo]

Thank you for stopping me from almost making a mistake! You guys rock!

[Buy/Sell/Trade / Re: PRICE CHECK: boxed complete USA turbo duo]

Omg! I looked at the picture again. It says pc engine duo!

Makes a big difference in price?

[Buy/Sell/Trade / Re: PRICE CHECK: boxed complete USA turbo duo]

It comes with street fighter 2, R-type 1, Cyber City OEDO 808, Bikkuriman World and Exile XZR.  Box and system in very nice shape.

Is that average price? on the high side? good find?

[Buy/Sell/Trade / PRICE CHECK: boxed complete USA turbo duo]

I have the option of buying a complete USA turbo duo in the box (no modifications but works). It also comes with 5 common games. The asking price is $350

Is this too much?

[Console Repair/Mod Center / Re: PCEGT replace with 3.5inch TFT LCD]

I use these for my NOMAD mods.  Does not show AV1 on startup!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331040572849?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

For those that want the smaller 2.38" LCD screens (the CAF257 was mentioned on another site) anywhere I can source it?