Am I finding Keith Courage... quite fun?

[Kaijuboy]

I have several loose extra copy of KC. Just pm me if anybody wants one. Will gladly sent it out for free.

MAJOR props to Turbokon for this!  That is above and beyond the call of duty for a Turbo Fan!  A major THANK YOU!      

[turbokon]

No problem neighbor;) Just swing bye if you ever want to borrow any turbo games.

BTW my fellow turbo brothers, I have no more loose copy of Keith courage to give away, sorry.

[grolt]

After exhausting some of my other games on the system, and still waiting for a bunch of new purchases to roll in, I decided I'd finally try to tackle KEITH COURAGE start to finish.  I've played through the first few levels a few times over the years, but I'd always lose interest in the repetitive design and having to go from being this fast, powerful badass in the underworld stages to this slow little Dragonball Z wannabe in the overworld.  Playing it this time though, I stuck with it and started to enjoy the cyclical yin and yang of the game.  Harvesting coin for those swords in the overworld was a cheap and easy thrill, and then the Transformer-like super attacks underneath worked that pleasure principle over and over again.

The game is very forgiving with your life allotment, but taking too much damage is never really the issue in the game.  The single-touch game overs in the spikes are a pretty big annoyance, and the enemies strategically placed right beside spike pits can be really cheap at times.  While I do like the labyrinth-like levels in the underworld, their design can be incredibly frustrating at times, since so much of it is descending down levels where you can't see the floor.  So many times there are just spikes placed at the bottom of a space where you'd normally expect to drop, and then boom, game over and you're back to the start of the level.  Some of the labyrinths have some nice bits of misdirection and forced confusion with the path you're supposed to take, but so much of it is ruined by poor game design and cheap deaths.  The variety is also lacking - almost all the labyrinths are the same and the bosses even get recycled as regular baddies (B.A.D.dies?) in the later levels.

As a console launch title against the likes of Mario or Sonic it was destined to fail, but taken on its own merits KEITH COURAGE is a fun, if repetitive, game.  By the end I was addicted, slaughtering cats like nobody's business to get that Alpha Sword, and then hacking my way through the final labyrinth before I happened upon the all-too-easily-activated last boss cheat to breeze my way to the finish line.  The game has my favorite kind of ending - the one valiant final graphic, and then a wicked text scroll that details how much of a wicked hero you are (nothing beats the US ending to ENDURO RACER, if any of you haven't seen that before).  It was great fun, and I'm glad I stuck with it.  I wish we were given that sequel promised in the credits, but alas, 'twas never meant to be.  Like the end of the rainbow, it's something that was never found, but this will be a fun game to beam up every now and again.  Stay courageous, Keith!

[esteban]

Yup: Keith Courage had the potential to be an absolutely AWESOME game... if only there was simply more variety in stage design/graphics/enemies/enemy AI...no cheating on the bosses, etc.

REPETITION/RECYCLING really sucks away the initial, legitimate fun Keith Courage promises. 

The overworld is the weakest, but could have been easily fixed with a TINY bit of creativity ( I, too, like the yin yang of over- vs. under-world).

In my FANTASY, the overworld would have echoed a more elaborate ARPG/platformer akin to Wonderboy in Monsterworld...or Faxanadu...or something. But then a password would have to be introduced and it would no longer be an "action title" and then the hybrid gameplay might turn-off a lot of folks and perhaps I am tinkering too much. Regardless of my silly fantasies, simple changes could have fixed the overworld without much extra work.

PERSONALLY, I LIKE THE MECHANICS/CONTROLS OF THE NOVA SUIT...it just feels nice (not perfect), especially with a decent sword. The jumping/landing/slashing + sound effects + controls + response...very nice.

Very few games capture a "mech" properly...I think the stages could have been designed better, to better complement/match the unique feel/abilities of the NOVA suit....

[escarioth]

but that feeling when you see that kick ass robot getting bigger after the rainbow beam.
i was amazed as a kid

[DragonmasterDan]

As a console launch title against the likes of Mario or Sonic it was destined to fail, but taken on its own merits KEITH COURAGE is a fun, if repetitive, game.

Remember, Sonic wasn't a launch game, it came out almost two years after the Genesis had been on the market. The Genesis pack-in game was originally Altered Beast.

[grolt]

As a console launch title against the likes of Mario or Sonic it was destined to fail, but taken on its own merits KEITH COURAGE is a fun, if repetitive, game.

Remember, Sonic wasn't a launch game, it came out almost two years after the Genesis had been on the market. The Genesis pack-in game was originally Altered Beast.

Yes, I should have said "bundle" title, since Genesis took over once they had Sonic bundled in. Keith Courage was still on the shelf with the TG-16 up against that and Mario 3/Super Mario World. Even against Altered Beast it is kind of a goofy game.

[DragonmasterDan]

Yes, I should have said "bundle" title, since Genesis took over once they had Sonic bundled in. Keith Courage was still on the shelf with the TG-16 up against that and Mario 3/Super Mario World. Even against Altered Beast it is kind of a goofy game.

Yes, though at various times the TG16 package was upgraded to also include Bonk. But Keith was still hiding in the box.

Anyway, I think Keith Courage was picked because it was a low ROM size (low cost to produce) game that showed off the TG16s color palette, and sharp graphics in the mech suit sections. It obviously wasn't the best game to market with the system, but I understand why they did it. The problem was they had overproduced the stock TG16 Keith Courage bundle and were stuck just adding things to the package rather than whole new configurations like Sega did in the case of Sonic.

[esteban]

Yes, I should have said "bundle" title, since Genesis took over once they had Sonic bundled in. Keith Courage was still on the shelf with the TG-16 up against that and Mario 3/Super Mario World. Even against Altered Beast it is kind of a goofy game.

Yes, though at various times the TG16 package was upgraded to also include Bonk. But Keith was still hiding in the box.

Anyway, I think Keith Courage was picked because it was a low ROM size (low cost to produce) game that showed off the TG16s color palette, and sharp graphics in the mech suit sections. It obviously wasn't the best game to market with the system, but I understand why they did it. The problem was they had overproduced the stock TG16 Keith Courage bundle and were stuck just adding things to the package rather than whole new configurations like Sega did in the case of Sonic.

Agreed.

[grolt]

Supergrafx Granzort.

But yes, decent if repetitive fun!

Ehhhh, that's a sequel like Adventure Island is a sequel to Wonder Boy...

[DragonmasterDan]

Ehhhh, that's a sequel like Adventure Island is a sequel to Wonder Boy...

Well Adventure Island IS Wonder Boy. Hudson just chose to use different character sprites rather than the ones provided by Westone (and did for everything except their port of Monster Lair which has Wonder Boy in it).

Granzort is a totally different game that involves mech suits and is based on an anime. But it plays similarly to Keith Courage.

[grolt]

Ehhhh, that's a sequel like Adventure Island is a sequel to Wonder Boy...

Well Adventure Island IS Wonder Boy. Hudson just chose to use different character sprites rather than the ones provided by Westone (and did for everything except their port of Monster Lair which has Wonder Boy in it).

Granzort is a totally different game that involves mech suits and is based on an anime. But it plays similarly to Keith Courage.

Okay let's say New Adventure Island being a sequel to Wonder boy 3

[T2KFreeker]

All the hatred for Keith Courage. Sad really. it isn't that bad of a game. There are so many much worse ones out there. The only thing I bring into question from the fan perspective is why was it a pack in game. I know, they were really trying to show off the color pallet and the sprite detail and whatnot, but they could have done something a little better. In the end though, Keith Courage is a really damn fun game.

[Alt-Nintega]

Keith Courage is fucking great game! I don't get what the bs talk about it being sub-par. I love this game since 1993 when I fist played it!

[o.pwuaioc]

Keith Courage is fucking great game! I don't get what the bs talk about it being sub-par. I love this game since 1993 when I fist played it!

Oh, I needed to fist my game? That explains the lack of enjoyment!

[seieienbu]

I always thought Kieth Courage was fine.  Not great, certainly but whatever.  As far as "worst pack-in title ever" I don't think it was even remotely as bad as Altered Beasts.  Why that game gets love but Kieth Courage is railed upon will never make sense to me.

[DragonmasterDan]

I always thought Kieth Courage was fine.  Not great, certainly but whatever.  As far as "worst pack-in title ever" I don't think it was even remotely as bad as Altered Beasts.  Why that game gets love but Kieth Courage is railed upon will never make sense to me.

I don't think that Keith Courage was ever the issue. It was an acceptable pack-in for an early system.

The problem was more that Bonk wasn't ready for launch and that NEC should have waited and used it as the pack-in or produced only a limited number of units with Keith. Instead NEC Home Electronics manufactured way too many TG16s (with Keith Courage) prior to launch expecting it to take off and this gave them a lot less flexibility regarding packing in additional games. They eventually stuck Bonk in the box for a limited time, they had get a free game off a mail in voucher with the purchase of a system deals, but those added additional time and expense.

[T2KFreeker]

I always thought Kieth Courage was fine.  Not great, certainly but whatever.  As far as "worst pack-in title ever" I don't think it was even remotely as bad as Altered Beasts.  Why that game gets love but Kieth Courage is railed upon will never make sense to me.

I don't think that Keith Courage was ever the issue. It was an acceptable pack-in for an early system.

The problem was more that Bonk wasn't ready for launch and that NEC should have waited and used it as the pack-in or produced only a limited number of units with Keith. Instead NEC Home Electronics manufactured way too many TG16s (with Keith Courage) prior to launch expecting it to take off and this gave them a lot less flexibility regarding packing in additional games. They eventually stuck Bonk in the box for a limited time, they had get a free game off a mail in voucher with the purchase of a system deals, but those added additional time and expense.

I forgot about the mail in games promotion. I think I actually participated in that. I believe it's how I first got Ninja Spirit actually. Either that or it was a Buy two participating games and send in the UPC's to get a freebie in the mail kind of thing? I remember I was all happy to get ninja Spirit though because I used to play it at the Roundtable Pizza down the street and they had just taken the machine out when I got a chance to get it for the turbo. In my naivety, I was all like, This Is Just Like The Arcade Game! Not exactly, but damn close anyway.

[Warbucks]

I always liked Keith Courage

[DragonmasterDan]

I forgot about the mail in games promotion. I think I actually participated in that. I believe it's how I first got Ninja Spirit actually. Either that or it was a Buy two participating games and send in the UPC's to get a freebie in the mail kind of thing? I remember I was all happy to get ninja Spirit though because I used to play it at the Roundtable Pizza down the street and they had just taken the machine out when I got a chance to get it for the turbo. In my naivety, I was all like, This Is Just Like The Arcade Game! Not exactly, but damn close anyway.

Yeah, I did the mail in games promotion as well. My free game was Pac-Land.

[turboswimbz]

Yeah, I did the mail in games promotion as well. My free game was Pac-Land.

I always enjoyed pac-land.  it is an interesting game.  although the ending always felt lack luster to me.  But it was better than Deep Blue's.  I literally got angry and threw a chair.  13 year old me was none to happy after 5 days of playing . . .

[T2KFreeker]

Yeah, I did the mail in games promotion as well. My free game was Pac-Land.

I always enjoyed pac-land.  it is an interesting game.  although the ending always felt lack luster to me.  But it was better than Deep Blue's.  I literally got angry and threw a chair.  13 year old me was none to happy after 5 days of playing . . .

Anger much? Why you Mad, bro? LOL Seriously though, could understand the frustration on the ending of Deep Blue. On the other subject, I always felt Pac-land was underrated as well. Not the horror of a game that many people try to make it out to be. Kind of like Keith Courage....getting back on topic...LOL

[Alt-Nintega]

Blazing Lazers would have been a great pack-in game. Introducing many young'uns into shooting games in those days. NEC TTi etc. was just too high those days to make obvious decisions.

[esteban]

Blazing Lazers would have been a great pack-in game. Introducing many young'uns into shooting games in those days. NEC TTi etc. was just too high those days to make obvious decisions.

Yes, for shootemup fans.

However, when discussed in the past, Legendary Axe might have been the game with a more "universal appeal"...

[grolt]

In hindsight with the success of the Genesis and the Altered Beast pack-in, Legendary Axe definitely makes the most sense. NEC was looking at the past success of Nintendo's pack-in instead, and probably underestimated SEGA at the time considering the PC Engine was trouncing the Mega Drive back in Japan.

My problem as a kid with Keith is the game you buy is not the game you play. The box looks like some epic hack and slash with a muscular, Conan-esque warrior (like your Rastans, Rygars or Wizard and Warriors) but instead you're this slow, spikey haired dude, and then you're in a mech suit. The false advertising really just emphasized what the game WASN'T rather than what the game really was, which is a fun but eccentric little action platformer.

[DragonmasterDan]

Blazing Lazers would have been a great pack-in game. Introducing many young'uns into shooting games in those days. NEC TTi etc. was just too high those days to make obvious decisions.

Blazing Lazers was the UK pack-in game.

Leendary Axe would have made a better choice in terms of game quality. But I'd say it's a bit harder of a game. It's not as colorful (the TG16s biggest strength being its color palette) as Keith Courage nor does it move as fast. Again, it's a much better game to play, but as a showpiece for the system I can see why KC in Alpha Zones was picked.

[esteban]

In hindsight with the success of the Genesis and the Altered Beast pack-in, Legendary Axe definitely makes the most sense. NEC was looking at the past success of Nintendo's pack-in instead, and probably underestimated SEGA at the time considering the PC Engine was trouncing the Mega Drive back in Japan.

My problem as a kid with Keith is the game you buy is not the game you play. The box looks like some epic hack and slash with a muscular, Conan-esque warrior (like your Rastans, Rygars or Wizard and Warriors) but instead you're this slow, spikey haired dude, and then you're in a mech suit. The false advertising really just emphasized what the game WASN'T rather than what the game really was, which is a fun but eccentric little action platformer.

Correct, LA is not a perfect pack-in either.

In 1989, let's say by April...I don't know if there really was an absolutely perfect, killer pack-in.

R-Type — frustrating for average player. Name recognition! A draw for shootemup fans, but also not a NEW game (it was out on SMS).

Blazing Lazers — definitely a contender. Looks great, difficulty ramps up more forgivingly than R-Type. Certainly has a FRESH, NEW shine unlike an old R-Type...

???

[DragonmasterDan]

Correct, LA is not a perfect pack-in either.

In 1989, let's say by April...I don't know if there really was an absolutely perfect, killer pack-in.

R-Type — frustrating for average player. Name recognition! A draw for shootemup fans, but also not a NEW game (it was out on SMS).

Despite being a much better version of the game, I completely agree. R-Type was way too difficult and frustrating to be the pack-in. Remember, the primary market for home video games in America at that time was children. Children without fully developed motor-skills so making a shooter the pack-in probably wouldn't have been the best choice. Had it been available at the time, JJ and Jeff might have also been a good pick.

[johnnykonami]

KC from the original TV adverts is what made me want a TG-16, At the time I was easily sold on the mecha suit transformation scene.  I was pretty pleased overall with the underworld levels, but the overworld ones could be a drag - in particular saving up for some of the sword upgrades later on was very grindy.  That's the biggest downside to me.  Other than that, some cool bosses and music and overall a pleasant memory for me.  It and Alien Crush were my only games when I got the system for some months (Bonk's Adventure hadn't even been released yet) so I finished it a ton of times until I got a few more games.

[esteban]

Alien Crush? Is that too niche?

I don't think it would have been better than Keith in terms of grabbing the mainstream gamer demographics.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Maybe China Warrior as a pack-in?  I don't think it's all that great of a game, but it's got color and big sprites to show off the hardware.

I know it wasn't released yet, but the best would've been Bonk's Adventure.

[ToyMachine78]

Maybe China Warrior as a pack-in?  I don't think it's all that great of a game, but it's got color and big sprites to show off the hardware.

I know it wasn't released yet, but the best would've been Bonk's Adventure.

Ive always said the pack in should have been R-Type. Bonk would have been good too.

[johnnykonami]

Alien Crush? Is that too niche?

I don't think it would have been better than Keith in terms of grabbing the mainstream gamer demographics. 

I didn't even know I liked pinball when I was a kid, my parents just picked it out for me so I had another game with the system (didn't ask for it).  Of course I ended up loving it, they probably knew an outer space theme was bound to go over well with me.  I had played Slamball on the C64, as well as Atari Pinball on the 2600, but AC was what really got me into (video) pinball.

I doubt it would have been a good pack-in though for most kids, though, even if they grew to love it like I did it probably wouldn't have sold systems.  I kinda agree with Legendary Axe being a good alternative from the list of release titles.

[Gentlegamer]

If NEC wanted to do a mecha action game for a pack-in, a Robotech (Macross) action game would have made me beg and beg until I got a TurboGrafx-16 in 1990-91.

[bozo55]

...  So many times there are just spikes placed at the bottom of a space where you'd normally expect to drop, and then boom, game over and you're back to the start of the level. 
...

This.  That's why I couldn't finish the game.  It made what should've been a fast-paced action-packed romp a complete chore.

[ToyMachine78]

Alien Crush? Is that too niche?

I don't think it would have been better than Keith in terms of grabbing the mainstream gamer demographics. 

I didn't even know I liked pinball when I was a kid, my parents just picked it out for me so I had another game with the system (didn't ask for it).  Of course I ended up loving it, they probably knew an outer space theme was bound to go over well with me.  I had played Slamball on the C64, as well as Atari Pinball on the 2600, but AC was what really got me into (video) pinball.

I doubt it would have been a good pack-in though for most kids, though, even if they grew to love it like I did it probably wouldn't have sold systems.  I kinda agree with Legendary Axe being a good alternative from the list of release titles.

Dude I loved pinball as a kid. I would go to the bowling alley with my parents and play games while they bowled. I played the hell out of Haunted House, Black Knight, and KISS PB machines. I also played the hell out of Elevator Action, Spy Hunter, Ghosts n Goblins, Bad Dudes, and Shinobi.

Damn! Those were some good times!

[Alt-Nintega]

Maybe China Warrior as a pack-in?  I don't think it's all that great of a game, but it's got color and big sprites to show off the hardware.

I know it wasn't released yet, but the best would've been Bonk's Adventure.

CW as a pack in would have kicked ass all over the place. Giant Bruce Lee walking around whooping everyones ass from Shaolin monks to giant insects. Epic. Way better than Keith, plus the kids would have been all over the Bruce Lee theme in those days or any days for that matter.

[johnnykonami]

Alien Crush? Is that too niche?

I don't think it would have been better than Keith in terms of grabbing the mainstream gamer demographics. 

I didn't even know I liked pinball when I was a kid, my parents just picked it out for me so I had another game with the system (didn't ask for it).  Of course I ended up loving it, they probably knew an outer space theme was bound to go over well with me.  I had played Slamball on the C64, as well as Atari Pinball on the 2600, but AC was what really got me into (video) pinball.

I doubt it would have been a good pack-in though for most kids, though, even if they grew to love it like I did it probably wouldn't have sold systems.  I kinda agree with Legendary Axe being a good alternative from the list of release titles.

Dude I loved pinball as a kid. I would go to the bowling alley with my parents and play games while they bowled. I played the hell out of Haunted House, Black Knight, and KISS PB machines. I also played the hell out of Elevator Action, Spy Hunter, Ghosts n Goblins, Bad Dudes, and Shinobi.

Damn! Those were some good times!

I didn't really get the appeal of real pinball until I was much older, I was too busy obsessing over video arcade machines whenever I had the opportunity to be around pins.  Some time in my early twenties I discovered Black Knight 2000 and started getting more into it then.  Nowadays I play Pinball Arcade on Steam and also want to get a real one for my house one day when I can swing it.  I'm more of a Williams guy, but I might go for a Stern - the difference on playing on a brand new pin vs one from the 80's-90's is night and day, even if the themes aren't as cool.

[johnnykonami]

Maybe China Warrior as a pack-in?  I don't think it's all that great of a game, but it's got color and big sprites to show off the hardware.

I know it wasn't released yet, but the best would've been Bonk's Adventure.

CW as a pack in would have kicked ass all over the place. Giant Bruce Lee walking around whooping everyones ass from Shaolin monks to giant insects. Epic. Way better than Keith, plus the kids would have been all over the Bruce Lee theme in those days or any days for that matter.

I think for me, CW would have seem quite limited gameplay wise after a short amount of time.  Granted it had the impressively large sprites, but it still feels a little tech-demo-y for having it be your only game.  I think Dungeon Explorer would have been a pretty good pack-in though, but that's just my taste in games.  I like something you can take a while to finish, explore and maybe find new things on subsequent playthroughs.  Probably would have been agitating to want to play multiplayer with a sibling or friend and not have the tap, though.  I can see that being a reason they might have decided not to include it, since it would just highlight that particular issue and maybe scare away new buyers, but sell it separately and rope them in for accessory sales later on instead.

[johnnykonami]

...  So many times there are just spikes placed at the bottom of a space where you'd normally expect to drop, and then boom, game over and you're back to the start of the level. 
...

This.  That's why I couldn't finish the game.  It made what should've been a fast-paced action-packed romp a complete chore.

Yeah, I remember getting frustrated at those sections also.  Eventually you memorize where they are, so they aren't as big of a deal the next time you try to play through.  Still, pretty cheap hiding things off the confines of the screen safe area that you just know your in-game character would have been able to see.  Then again, I'm not entirely the helmet on the Nova suit swivels downwards so maybe it's an accurate model of Keith's field of vision.

[turboswimbz]

I've thought about this a lot.  and assuming that production had to start most likely in the spring of 89, you only had a handful of titles to choose from to launch with from 87 and 88.

                                                     the launch titles
Shanghai - this wasn't going to catch on in the US and draw players

Bikkuriman World  - Now there is an argument to be made for monsterboy in wonderland.   However, it was already out and about on the mega system. so it wouldn't have been an exclusive. 
The Kung Fu - others have already argued it's good and bad points.    

Kato-chan Ken-chan - JJ and Jeff wouldn't have been a bad pick, but given it's regionality and the changing censoring that had to be done, and that they were targeting getting parents to buy for children, you understand why it wasn't picked.
    
Victory Run - A racing game against he like of sonic and mario just doesn't work.

88 Titles
Jaseiken Necromancer - too dark, too much to translate, RPG's hadn't taken off in NA either. 
Yokai Dochuki - not a good enough game to consider. not bad but it wasn't exactly touted as great.
R-Type 1 and 2 - A bit too hard.  and could a shooter compete with the mascots?
YouYou Jinsei - just no
Pro Yakyuu World Stadium - sports game have a limited market
Power League, Pro Tennis: World Court    and Appare! Gateball- see above
Sengoku Mahjong - um no
Galaga '88 and Dragon Spirit     - there are better shewties to go with than this mainly r type.
Mashin Eiyuuden Wataru - arguably the best platformer and great colors.
Alien Crush - too limited of a market
Gaia no Monshou - same problem as Necromancer
Mankyou Densetsu    - Dan explained pretty well the downside.  but it wouldn't have been bad
Fantasy Zone and Space Harrier - no exclusive, not a platformer
Sadakichi Sebun: Hideyoshi no Ougon - non action game    [/size]   


I think your actual choices then become KC, LA, (and maybe Monster Boy) really.   

Given those choices I am going to say KCIAZ was probably a pretty good choice.  I think the Downside was they overproduced units with this as the pack in.  If they had the ability to add in Bonk's Adventure when it became available they would have had a much better advantage, as the game library grew.  Hudson and NEC really needed a mascot badly, and not having one early hurt them.   

All that being said.  I always wonder what it would have been like if the pack in was one of the arcade ports or shooter?  What if we had gotten all those great RPG's and the like.   

Anyway I like KC and I wish it was just tossed aside as not being sonic or mario, it is exactly the reason to love the PCE/Turbo - Because it's different

TLDR:   KC was the choice and is a good game, PCE is better because it is Different from those other companies.

[esteban]

Alien Crush? Is that too niche?

I don't think it would have been better than Keith in terms of grabbing the mainstream gamer demographics.

I didn't even know I liked pinball when I was a kid, my parents just picked it out for me so I had another game with the system (didn't ask for it).  Of course I ended up loving it, they probably knew an outer space theme was bound to go over well with me.  I had played Slamball on the C64, as well as Atari Pinball on the 2600, but AC was what really got me into (video) pinball.

I doubt it would have been a good pack-in though for most kids, though, even if they grew to love it like I did it probably wouldn't have sold systems.  I kinda agree with Legendary Axe being a good alternative from the list of release titles.

Dude I loved pinball as a kid. I would go to the bowling alley with my parents and play games while they bowled. I played the hell out of Haunted House, Black Knight, and KISS PB machines. I also played the hell out of Elevator Action, Spy Hunter, Ghosts n Goblins, Bad Dudes, and Shinobi.

Damn! Those were some good times!

I loved pinball, too.
My uncle restored an old 60's/70's machine—when I was a little kid  I played that damn thing for a billion hours.

[johnnykonami]

Alien Crush? Is that too niche?

I don't think it would have been better than Keith in terms of grabbing the mainstream gamer demographics.

I didn't even know I liked pinball when I was a kid, my parents just picked it out for me so I had another game with the system (didn't ask for it).  Of course I ended up loving it, they probably knew an outer space theme was bound to go over well with me.  I had played Slamball on the C64, as well as Atari Pinball on the 2600, but AC was what really got me into (video) pinball.

I doubt it would have been a good pack-in though for most kids, though, even if they grew to love it like I did it probably wouldn't have sold systems.  I kinda agree with Legendary Axe being a good alternative from the list of release titles.

Dude I loved pinball as a kid. I would go to the bowling alley with my parents and play games while they bowled. I played the hell out of Haunted House, Black Knight, and KISS PB machines. I also played the hell out of Elevator Action, Spy Hunter, Ghosts n Goblins, Bad Dudes, and Shinobi.

Damn! Those were some good times!

I loved pinball, too.
My uncle restored an old 60's/70's machine—when I was a little kid  I played that damn thing for a billion hours.

I'm sure I would have loved having a pinball machine available to me like that also, alas - I just didn't discover how much I liked them until I was a little older.  When I was a kid they just seemed like a generation or two past their prime, and they had to compete with uprights for my money of which I was only given $1-2 at a time.  In fact, I probably tried a pin at one point as a kid, lost 3 balls instantly, and dismissed them as quarter munchers.  Big fan now though, freeplay would have made all the difference back then I bet.  And Alien Crush definitely gave me a deeper appreciation for pinball since I could just keep trying over and over again without running out of money. (and I do appreciate the real deal vs video pinball, but video pinball has a huge spot in my heart)  I plan to do my family members the favor your uncle did for you by eventually getting one for my place.

I also recently picked up Last Gladiators pinball brand new for Saturn, little disappointed the cover is a little sunbleached though.  Still, I bought it to play it.  I'd like to get the other KaZe pinball game for Saturn, Necronomicon, as soon as I can.

[esteban]

Alien Crush? Is that too niche?

I don't think it would have been better than Keith in terms of grabbing the mainstream gamer demographics.

I didn't even know I liked pinball when I was a kid, my parents just picked it out for me so I had another game with the system (didn't ask for it).  Of course I ended up loving it, they probably knew an outer space theme was bound to go over well with me.  I had played Slamball on the C64, as well as Atari Pinball on the 2600, but AC was what really got me into (video) pinball.

I doubt it would have been a good pack-in though for most kids, though, even if they grew to love it like I did it probably wouldn't have sold systems.  I kinda agree with Legendary Axe being a good alternative from the list of release titles.

Dude I loved pinball as a kid. I would go to the bowling alley with my parents and play games while they bowled. I played the hell out of Haunted House, Black Knight, and KISS PB machines. I also played the hell out of Elevator Action, Spy Hunter, Ghosts n Goblins, Bad Dudes, and Shinobi.

Damn! Those were some good times!

I loved pinball, too.
My uncle restored an old 60's/70's machine—when I was a little kid  I played that damn thing for a billion hours.

I'm sure I would have loved having a pinball machine available to me like that also, alas - I just didn't discover how much I liked them until I was a little older.  When I was a kid they just seemed like a generation or two past their prime, and they had to compete with uprights for my money of which I was only given $1-2 at a time.  In fact, I probably tried a pin at one point as a kid, lost 3 balls instantly, and dismissed them as quarter munchers.  Big fan now though, freeplay would have made all the difference back then I bet.  And Alien Crush definitely gave me a deeper appreciation for pinball since I could just keep trying over and over again without running out of money. (and I do appreciate the real deal vs video pinball, but video pinball has a huge spot in my heart)  I plan to do my family members the favor your uncle did for you by eventually getting one for my place.

I also recently picked up Last Gladiators pinball brand new for Saturn, little disappointed the cover is a little sunbleached though.  Still, I bought it to play it.  I'd like to get the other KaZe pinball game for Saturn, Necronomicon, as soon as I can.

I was lucky, my uncle was into video games (Atari VCS) and pinball in late 70's/early-80's. I was in heaven.

My parents would never give money for arcade, so I had to use the little bit of cash I had from birthday/Xmas.

WHAT IS FUNNY, is that's living on a careful budget (which my wife and I have been doing for a LONG time now), is no different than being a kid with limited funds.

Ha!

[johnnykonami]

Alien Crush? Is that too niche?

I don't think it would have been better than Keith in terms of grabbing the mainstream gamer demographics.

I didn't even know I liked pinball when I was a kid, my parents just picked it out for me so I had another game with the system (didn't ask for it).  Of course I ended up loving it, they probably knew an outer space theme was bound to go over well with me.  I had played Slamball on the C64, as well as Atari Pinball on the 2600, but AC was what really got me into (video) pinball.

I doubt it would have been a good pack-in though for most kids, though, even if they grew to love it like I did it probably wouldn't have sold systems.  I kinda agree with Legendary Axe being a good alternative from the list of release titles.

Dude I loved pinball as a kid. I would go to the bowling alley with my parents and play games while they bowled. I played the hell out of Haunted House, Black Knight, and KISS PB machines. I also played the hell out of Elevator Action, Spy Hunter, Ghosts n Goblins, Bad Dudes, and Shinobi.

Damn! Those were some good times!

I loved pinball, too.
My uncle restored an old 60's/70's machine—when I was a little kid  I played that damn thing for a billion hours.

I'm sure I would have loved having a pinball machine available to me like that also, alas - I just didn't discover how much I liked them until I was a little older.  When I was a kid they just seemed like a generation or two past their prime, and they had to compete with uprights for my money of which I was only given $1-2 at a time.  In fact, I probably tried a pin at one point as a kid, lost 3 balls instantly, and dismissed them as quarter munchers.  Big fan now though, freeplay would have made all the difference back then I bet.  And Alien Crush definitely gave me a deeper appreciation for pinball since I could just keep trying over and over again without running out of money. (and I do appreciate the real deal vs video pinball, but video pinball has a huge spot in my heart)  I plan to do my family members the favor your uncle did for you by eventually getting one for my place.

I also recently picked up Last Gladiators pinball brand new for Saturn, little disappointed the cover is a little sunbleached though.  Still, I bought it to play it.  I'd like to get the other KaZe pinball game for Saturn, Necronomicon, as soon as I can.

I was lucky, my uncle was into video games (Atari VCS) and pinball in late 70's/early-80's. I was in heaven.

My parents would never give money for arcade, so I had to use the little bit of cash I had from birthday/Xmas.

WHAT IS FUNNY, is that's living on a careful budget (which my wife and I have been doing for a LONG time now), is no different than being a kid with limited funds.

Ha!

Sounds pretty sweet!  My sister who is 8 years older than me passed on her ColecoVision with expansion module #1 (to play Atari 2600 carts) so that was my first console along with my C64.  In fact, I didn't get anything else until the TG-16 (I did get some games for the C64 like Pool of Radiance in the interim), didn't get a NES or anything (but I was able to play it at friend's houses).

[esteban]

^ Pool of Radiance was damn fun.

I have never played any 2600 games on Coleco Vision! I gotta do that, just for the novelty.