WOW - Cosmic Fantasy 2

SignOfZeta · 09/10/2006, 09:19 PM

Quote from: OldRoverThe key issue here is that you'll never be able to convince anyone otherwise...console loyalty is a religion in and of itself and like all religions, you cannot convince someone else that your idea is better than theirs.

Ah, so its exactly like patriotism then. I was giving people too much credit. My mistake.

esteban · 09/10/2006, 09:46 PM

Quote from: runinruderBasted was ahead of its time.

It had one town and, essentially, one maze (only the one leading to the last boss is really any kind of "dungeon"). Yet, it had a heavy focus on plot and cinematics. The cinemas were actually exceptional (the ones later in the game, that is--the ones early on were merely solid for the most part).

In this respect, it was a parody of the story-heavy, gameplay-light RPGs that dominate the marketplace today--and, of course, it was released before modern RPGs were EVEN MADE.

Thanks to such forethought on behalf of Basted's designers, we can confidently say that the work they put in was worthwhile. It served a purpose in the annals of gaming history. It's something unique: a parody of what was yet to come.

(Plus, the story is actually rather nice.)

Stuff like Zelda III, on the other hand, served no purpose and has no reason to still exist in this universe.

Zig beat me to the punch, but he didn't praise your post like I thought he would. Runin, this is one of the most creative posts I've read in a long time. Friggin' brilliant. It brought a tear to my eye... no joke.

Emerald Rocker · 09/10/2006, 10:33 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta
Quote from: OldRoverThe key issue here is that you'll never be able to convince anyone otherwise...console loyalty is a religion in and of itself and like all religions, you cannot convince someone else that your idea is better than theirs.

Ah, so its exactly like patriotism then. I was giving people too much credit. My mistake.

Don't worry SignOfZeta, there's no reason to renounce your faith in people just quite yet. Opinions *can* be changed with the right words, with the right evidence, and with a little bit of first-hand exposure to something they've never played. The problem here is that you're trying to teach people that the SNES is a good system, which is flatly incorrect.

Hopefully, with time, I will be able to cure you of your SNES patriotism.

grahf · 09/10/2006, 10:38 PM

I think ive had an epiphany. All this time, ive been enjoying games on many different systems. It turns out it was all a bit fat lie. From this point on, i will like one, and ONLY one system. Everything else will be junk. SNES? too many graphic effects. Xbox? PS1&2? The disks are too big. Gamecube? The disks read backwards, and that defies the theory of relativity. Genesis? it had crappy controller ports. And all the rest. Junk.

There can be only one!
Phillips CD-i.

(ps, im being sarcastic. Cant we all just get along?

)

GUTS · 09/10/2006, 10:41 PM

Dude I've played ever SNES game ever released in the US, and on actual cartridges to boot. You know how many I care to replay? About 10. You know how many Genesis and Duo games I still like to play? A fucking shitload more than that. So yeah, the SNES has a FEW good games.

Emerald Rocker · 09/10/2006, 10:46 PM

GUTS has also played a TON of import SNES games. I know this because he traded them all to me, since he didn't want that crap anymore.

I kind of like Umihara Kawase, though.

SignOfZeta · 09/10/2006, 11:28 PM

Quote from: GUTSDude I've played ever SNES game ever released in the US, and on actual cartridges to boot. You know how many I care to replay? About 10. You know how many Genesis and Duo games I still like to play? A fucking shitload more than that. So yeah, the SNES has a FEW good games.

Wait, Genesis? OK, I get it, you're just fucking with me now. You really had me going there for a minute. Heh he, Genesis. Yeah, good one.

I'm a huge Sega fan, but not because MK1 had fatalities in it. The Genesis was easily the worst Sega system.

PC Gaijin · 09/10/2006, 11:32 PM

I had to double-check the opening post again to remember what this thread was about. Sheesh, Aaron should just open a console advocacy forum so you guys can keep this sort of thing centralized.

TurboXray · 09/10/2006, 11:39 PM

I like CF2.

OldRover · 09/11/2006, 12:03 AM

Quote from: SignOfZetaI'm a huge Sega fan, but not because MK1 had fatalities in it. The Genesis was easily the worst Sega system.

Hrm...I always figured the Genesis to be the BEST Sega system since it got the most software support during the life cycle of ANY Sega console. The Saturn had a few games I loved (most notably, Dark Savior) and of course, the SMS with the original Phantasy Star is just plain classic, but the Genesis really, IMO, had the largest selection of titles I liked (the Sonic series, PSIV, a great Strider port, and even some oldies like Jewel Master and Columns). But again, it's all a matter of taste.

Keranu · 09/11/2006, 12:22 AM

Wow, this thread is almost spawning in as many directions as the PCE vs Genesis vs SNES thread. I'll do what I always do in threads like this, USE MY NUMBER TOPIC SYSTEM!

1. ) Runin, outstanding Basted defense.

2. ) I like a Link to the Past and don't consider it trash like Nick Evil and the gang do, but it's definitely not my favorite game in the series and I haven't really beat it more than once - more like once and a half and some quick boot ups. The variety of items and their uses in dungeons were enough to entertain me in the game.

3. ) I agree with grahf, we should stick with the one and only CD-i.

4. ) I think SNES is loaded with just as many fun games as the Turbo and Genesis, but I still give the edge to Turbo and Genesis anyday.

5. ) Genesis is Sega's worst system?

No need to further comment.

6. ) I agree with Bonknuts, I like CF2.

GUTS · 09/11/2006, 02:17 AM

Yeah the "Genesis is the worst Sega system" comment is easily the most insane thing said in this entire thread, and that includes the parts where somebody compared not liking the snes to patriotism and said Zelda III was a masterpiece.

Keranu · 09/11/2006, 05:37 AM

And don't forget the Chrono Trigger praising part of this thread, that was pretty insane too.

Seldane · 09/11/2006, 07:58 AM

Let me ask this to everybody: What's your favorite system?

To the people who says Mega Drive and/or SNES sucks, and then says PCE/TG is the best system ever: a big

for you.

Also: play Basted everybody! Laughter/heart attacks for everyone!

OldRover · 09/11/2006, 01:32 PM

Quote from: SeldaneTo the people who says Mega Drive and/or SNES sucks, and then says PCE/TG is the best system ever: a big for you.

Hey Captain Obvious...you're on a PCE fan forum. WHAT DO YOU EXPECT?!

Seldane · 09/11/2006, 01:58 PM

Quote from: OldRoverHey Captain Obvious...you're on a PCE fan forum. WHAT DO YOU EXPECT?!

Yeah but my point is that the 16-bit war is over. Totally over. And people are still fighting.

esteban · 09/11/2006, 03:05 PM

Quote from: SeldaneYeah but my point is that the 16-bit war is over. Totally over. And people are still fighting.

Seldane is right about this. We have been resurrecting the "console wars" of yore.

It is fun, as long as nobody takes it too seriously.

Keranu · 09/11/2006, 06:45 PM

16-bit wars are great. By the way, Seldane, I don't think there is a PCE fan here that says both Genesis and SNES suck. Maybe one of the two but never both. And if there, shame on them because I find it hard to be a PCE fan without being a Genesis or a SNES fan. One of the reasons why I love PCE so much is because to me it got the best from both worlds of the Genesis and SNES, both hardware and software-wise. Example; speed from Genesis, colors from SNES; action games from Genesis, RPGs from SNES

.

SignOfZeta · 09/11/2006, 08:20 PM

Quote from: OldRover
Quote from: SignOfZetaI'm a huge Sega fan, but not because MK1 had fatalities in it. The Genesis was easily the worst Sega system.
Hrm...I always figured the Genesis to be the BEST Sega system since it got the most software support during the life cycle of ANY Sega console. The Saturn had a few games I loved (most notably, Dark Savior) and of course, the SMS with the original Phantasy Star is just plain classic, but the Genesis really, IMO, had the largest selection of titles I liked (the Sonic series, PSIV, a great Strider port, and even some oldies like Jewel Master and Columns). But again, it's all a matter of taste.

Well, if I owned stock in Sega in 1992, then I'd say I liked the Genesis the best because that's back when Sega actually made money. It was Sega's most popular machine in the US, therefore I can see the console warriors getting behind it. Its kind of like the WWII for patriots.

Even the worst Sega system is still a nice system, but I feel that it can't compare to the Saturn, or DC for many reasons.

From a hardware perspective, just chips and that sort of thing, the Mega Drive was weak sauce compared to its counterparts; the PCE, and the SuFami. As mentioned elsewhere on this forum the MD hardware didn't really excell at anything. It was resonably fast, so it did much better with shooters than the SuFami, but ultimatly the PCE is a better shooter system.

From a software perspective things are even worse. As we know, most software is crap so that leaves it up the small percentage of good stuff to define the machine. I really like Sonic 1, and 2, Phansaty Star IV, and Gunstar Heroes. I recently had a chance to get an X'Eye for a very good price, but I turned it down because I really don't know what I would play on it. Nobody wants to play garbage sports games from EA now that they are 10 years old, least of all me since I hate sports games. The same goes for movie licensed titles, or stuff based on toys and comic books. Anything that is multi-playform is almost always better on SNES (Ninja Turtles: Tournament Fighters, Street Fighter II, etc.

The Saturn gave us Guardian Heroes, Radient Silvergun, Sakura Wars, Bomberman SS, Fighters Megamix, VF2, Death Tank Zwei, great shooters...just amazing (Parodius, Salamander, DoDonpatchi, Batsugun, on and on and on), three Panzer Dragoon games, and a metric shitload of amazingly great ports of Capcom, and SNK fighters.

The DC gave us two more Sakura Wars games (part 3 is the best) more shooters, more fighters, Shenmue 2, Skies of Arcadia, Grandia 2, and Rez. Mother fucking *REZ*, man.

I don't recall the MD doing anything like that. Not even close.

Joe Redifer · 09/11/2006, 08:33 PM

I love all Sega systems as well, but the DC is my least favorite system from the company. Granted there were some freakin' awesome games on the system (REZ doesn't really toot my horn, but whatever), but I could not stand the controller and how loud the system was when the laser moved. At least I could use the Total Control 3 and plug in a Saturn controller for the fighting games, though. The VMU pisses me off and I hate hearing it whine whenever I power up the console, and I am not about to replace the batteries in the thing.

TurboXray · 09/11/2006, 08:51 PM

SignOfZeta:

You just basically admitted that you like the Genesis the least of the Sega systems (something along the lines of "sucks") even though it was extremely successful and popular in the US in it's run in the 16bit wars, but you blast someone/anyone else from thinking the SNES sucks? Believe it or not, but a person's opinion that a system "sucks" might not even be relative to it's success, popularity, or even it technical prowness.

Whats up with the "patriot" analogies? I, myself, prefer car analogies

On another note: I feel the complete opposite of Seldane. I just don't get really excited about playing SNES anymore or about seeing a new game I hadn't known before on the system. Atleast not in the way I do for PCE and SuperCD (MegaCD too). I still occasionally use my SNES and SNES emus. Maybe I'm just burnt out on SNES.

16bit wars are geat, though! I remember when EGM posted specs between all three system. Genesis was listed as have the ability to do polygons

That was classic. And it was so obvious the editor was biased in favor of Genesis over Snes. Then again, EGM always was.

SignOfZeta · 09/11/2006, 11:00 PM

Quote from: Joe RediferI love all Sega systems as well, but the DC is my least favorite system from the company. Granted there were some freakin' awesome games on the system (REZ doesn't really toot my horn, but whatever), but I could not stand the controller and how loud the system was when the laser moved. At least I could use the Total Control 3 and plug in a Saturn controller for the fighting games, though. The VMU pisses me off and I hate hearing it whine whenever I power up the console, and I am not about to replace the batteries in the thing.

Yeah, I hate the DC pad. Its very very very badly designed. It sucks for fighters, and it cramps my hands terribly. Because of thise I very rarely use it. Usually I use a Saturn Vitura Stick Pro, or a regular Saturn pad. Only games that require analog sticks, or the VMU slot actually get me to plug the standard pad in. All racing games are played with the Thrustmaster wheel.

To me though a "system" is identified by the software, and internals and during the DCs short lifespan its software totally trounced the so-called competition. I mean, seriously, compare the DC with the last year of PS1, and the first year of PS2. Its a clear victory for Sega, and this was never the case with other Sega systems. Shit, the DC only had two real years of serious support. The PS2 didn't even get a good game until it was out for two years. All those great DC games came out in an amazingly short period of time. It could have been even better obviously if VF4 and Panzer Dragoon Orta weren't hijacked for other machines, and Shenmue wasn't left without a home. What a waste...

...but my favorite is still the Saturn

SignOfZeta · 09/11/2006, 11:10 PM

Quote from: BonknutsWhats up with the "patriot" analogies? I, myself, prefer car analogies

Its simple. A patriot is someone who thinks the country he lives is the best in the world simply because he lives in it. It sounds very egotistical at first, but really its just ignorance. He doesn't know what else is on offer. The same thing is true of people who only have one game machine for whatever reason (usually economic). They bought a Genesis, got it for Xmas, found it in a pawn shop for $5, whatever so they think its the best when really they just don't know what else is out there.

I was lucky/irresponsible/old enough to have bought all three major 16-bit systems during their original lifespan. My impression at the time is that the SNES had the best big-budget mainstream stuff (Tetris Attack, FFVI, Super Street Fighter II, Yoshi's Island) the PCE had the most original and artistic games (Photo Boy, Chouainiki, Momotaro) and the Genesis...didn't really have the most, or best of anything.

TurboXray · 09/11/2006, 11:23 PM

Quote from: SignOfZetaIts simple. A patriot is someone who thinks the country he lives is the best in the....

No, I meant: what's up with the repeative use of. Implying that it might be one your favorite analogies. Like I said, mine is car analogies

GUTS · 09/12/2006, 04:17 AM

He keeps using it because it makes him feel superior to everyone else and he thinks that anybody who disagrees with him about the SNES being the best system does it purely out of ignorance and narrow-mindedness. It hasn't occured to him yet that he's the only one in this debate displaying those qualities.

OldRover · 09/12/2006, 06:18 AM

The Dreamcast was able to have many rapidly-produced games of good quality because of how the system was set up. Most developers in this world know how to code for a Windows environment, so it was just a matter of making little tweaks here and there to get the software to work within a strict hardware set under CE.

SignOfZeta · 09/12/2006, 07:03 AM

Quote from: GUTSHe keeps using it because it makes him feel superior to everyone else and he thinks that anybody who disagrees with him about the SNES being the best system does it purely out of ignorance and narrow-mindedness.

Yep!

QuoteIt hasn't occured to him yet that he's the only one in this debate displaying those qualities.

Of course, this topic may have died without me. I'm doing God's work here!

SignOfZeta · 09/12/2006, 07:05 AM

Quote from: OldRoverThe Dreamcast was able to have many rapidly-produced games of good quality because of how the system was set up. Most developers in this world know how to code for a Windows environment, so it was just a matter of making little tweaks here and there to get the software to work within a strict hardware set under CE.

Well it was easy to program for, but not because of CE. Almost no games use CE. I can't think of any good ones that do.

Joe Redifer · 09/12/2006, 09:50 AM

Sega Rally 2 used CE, I believe. And look how the framerate stuttered! They should have at least used Mac OS 9 for that game.

SignOfZeta · 09/12/2006, 05:58 PM

Quote from: Joe RediferSega Rally 2 used CE, I believe. And look how the framerate stuttered! They should have at least used Mac OS 9 for that game.

Oh yeah, Sega Rally 2. Isn't there a code or something that locks the framerate to 30fps so you won't barf or something? I thought there was. Low frame rate is no problem, rapid random switching framerates...disquieting...

Other than SR2, I know Spirit of Speed 1937 uses CE. That was a great idea for a game, but a really horrible execution. Some pedophiliac galget crap uses it as well.

Seldane · 09/12/2006, 07:01 PM

I think framerate is extremely important. The most important factor of all, actually.

If the scrolling isn't COMPLETELY ultra-smooth, I can't play the game. That's why I prefer old consoles like MD, PCE, SNES, etc - always perfect framerate (from what I've played, anyway).

PC Gaijin · 09/12/2006, 07:45 PM

Quote from: SeldaneI think framerate is extremely important. The most important factor of all, actually.

If the scrolling isn't COMPLETELY ultra-smooth, I can't play the game. That's why I prefer old consoles like MD, PCE, SNES, etc - always perfect framerate (from what I've played, anyway).

After all the mud that has been slung about the SNES in this retarded thread already, you're opening up another can of worms with that one.

Anyway, I can think of a few more DC games that used Win CE, almost all ports of Windows games. IIRC, the only reason Sega Rally 2 used CE was at the time Sega's own development libraries didn't have any working netcode (and Sega Rally 2 was playable online in Japan).

Seldane · 09/13/2006, 09:23 AM

Quote from: PC GaijinAfter all the mud that has been slung about the SNES in this retarded thread already, you're opening up another can of worms with that one.

I never said anything bad about the SNES (at least not in this thread). I love every old video game system, but I tend to complain about them at times.

OldRover · 09/13/2006, 10:46 AM

Quote from: SignOfZetaWell it was easy to program for, but not because of CE. Almost no games use CE. I can't think of any good ones that do.

Oh, I wasn't aware that few games used CE, I was always told that most of them did. Ah well, learn something new every day.

PC Gaijin · 09/13/2006, 09:12 PM

Quote from: Seldane
Quote from: PC GaijinAfter all the mud that has been slung about the SNES in this retarded thread already, you're opening up another can of worms with that one.

I never said anything bad about the SNES (at least not in this thread). I love every old video game system, but I tend to complain about them at times.

You misunderstood me. I happen to like the SNES as well, but bringing up framerates along with the SNES is bound to inspire the SNES haters in this thread. After all, slowdown in many games was a real weakness of the SNES.