Run N Gun - PCE

[Nando]

Since there were no Contra's for the PCE tell me what are your favorite Run N Gun/Contra like games and what you'd like to see on a RnG game for the PCE.

[soop]

Midnight Resistance with 3 button Support

[Nando]

Cyber lip!

[nectarsis]

Cyber lip! (with added horizontal shooting)

Fixed that for you ;)

[jlued686]

The Contra-like game I would like to see on PCE is Contra.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Well if anyone ever gets around to the coding, Fragmare did PC Gunjin.

I myself would like to see that.  None of this Turrican shit.  That run n gun blows balls.


I'm up for anything run n gun as long as the controls and action are good.  Cho Aniki run n' gunner!

[Nando]

Cyber lip! (with added horizontal shooting)

Fixed that for you ;)

HAHAH thanks man, I stand corrected.

Here are some more:


Gunstar heroes
Gunners Heaven
Sunset Riders
Robocop Arcade
Top Hunter
Commando: Steel Disaster / Metal Slug clone

[Nando]

Well if anyone ever gets around to the coding, Fragmare did PC Gunjin.

I myself would like to see that.  None of this Turrican shit.  That run n gun blows balls.


I'm up for anything run n gun as long as the controls and action are good.  Cho Aniki run n' gunner!

I'm trying to help Rove revive the Obeyblaster game. Collecting information and ideas beyond the ones we have so far.

Are there any screen shots or vids of PC Gunjin?

[OldRover]

There are only mockups and sprites of PC Gunjin since it was never coded.

[jlued686]

Cyber lip! (with added horizontal shooting)

Fixed that for you ;)

HAHAH thanks man, I stand corrected.

Here are some more:


Gunstar heroes
Gunners Heaven
Sunset Riders
Robocop Arcade
Top Hunter
Commando: Steel Disaster / Metal Slug clone

Ah shit, Gunstar Heroes on PCE would be unreal! Gunner's Heaven is cool too, but for me Gunstar Heroes is the holy grail.

[Nando]

There are only mockups and sprites of PC Gunjin since it was never coded.

That would work too.

[Nando]

Midnight Resistance with 3 button Support

3 button = shoot / jump/ special?

[Nando]

Ah shit, Gunstar Heroes on PCE would be unreal! Gunner's Heaven is cool too, but for me Gunstar Heroes is the holy grail.

The animations on that title are UNREAL! the PC-E can totally do it!

[lord_cack]

Complete PC Gunjin would rock. The mock up pics were fantastic and two player Simultaneous would have been great. Keep your Gunstar I would totally take hot fresh Homebrew over a remake anyday.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I'm leaning towards Gunjin never happening.

mainly because if I'm pessimistic and vocal about it never happening, someone will probably take it up just to shut me up. 

;3

[lord_cack]

I'm leaning towards Gunjin never happening.

mainly because if I'm pessimistic and vocal about it never happening, someone will probably take it up just to shut me up. 

;3

I agree on both counts.... but it was a damn nice looking game concept....

[spenoza]

I definitely wouldn't want to see Gunstar Heroes remade. It was clearly a game designed, from the ground up, for the Genesis. If a game has to be rehashed, I'd prefer to see the original NES Contra (maybe with some arcade Contra spliced in) remade. Even better than that, though, would be a Contra-inspired game that is otherwise totally new.

[Nando]

Even better than that, though, would be a Contra-inspired game that is otherwise totally new.

That's the ideal idea

[Nando]

I agree on both counts.... but it was a damn nice looking game concept....

Pics?

[OldRover]

Even better than that, though, would be a Contra-inspired game that is otherwise totally new.

This is the whole idea behind Obeyblaster... to create an entirely new game based on Contra-like gameplay... multi-directional firing, super unrealistic flip-jumps while throwing bullets in every direction, plus lots of power-ups and huge enemies and explosions.

[lord_cack]

This is the ONLY image I could scroung up on this title. You can see it looks pretty damn amazing:

/st1boss01.gif

Its not even the best image....

[OldRover]

Fragmare's been working on the character sprites for it lately... new animations and whatnot. Maybe he'll show it off here.

[Arkhan Asylum]

i THINK WE MAY finally be taking the word "OBEY" too far into the land of the Corny/overdone.

lol.

[OldRover]

Quite possibly. But that's part of the charm.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Quite possibly. But that's part of the charm.

I wouldn't call it charm at this point lol.

Tome of Obey is pushing it too

[Keranu]

Quite possibly. But that's part of the charm.

Tome of Obey is pushing it too

I warned you about that name!

[Arkhan Asylum]

Quite possibly. But that's part of the charm.

Tome of Obey is pushing it too

I warned you about that name!

yeah.  it works OK for sites.  I coined the word with Obeybrew in my signature, and made tome of obey, and it blew up from there.

[Nando]

This is the ONLY image I could scroung up on this title. You can see it looks pretty damn amazing:

/st1boss01.gif

Its not even the best image....

I hope I can at least come close. Even at that small size, that pic would have driven me NUTS, when I was a kid.


Ark! MEME CREATOR!!!!

[soop]

Midnight Resistance with 3 button Support

3 button = shoot / jump/ special?

Nah, it was shoot, jump, and lock firing direction

But I changed my mind, Sunset Riders would blow my mind!

[FraGMarE]

I'll stick some new mockup pics of PC-Gunjin up here soon.  In the meantime, there is this:

fragmare.mindrec . com/pc-gunjin.htm
Some of the PC-Gunjin screens...





Can't believe you guys neve saw this stuff before.

As for what I'd like to have seen on the PC-Engine?  Contra Hard Corps or GTFO.

[FraGMarE]

Oh, and here are a few player animations I've been working on lately.



fragmare.mindrec.com/p1shoot02.gif fragmare.mindrec.com/p1slide02.gif
fragmare.mindrec.com/p2run01.gif

[Nando]

I'll stick some new mockup pics of PC-Gunjin up here soon.  In the meantime, there is this: http://fragmare.mindrec.com/pc-gunjin.htm

As for what I'd like to have seen on the PC-Engine?  Contra Hard Corps or GTFO.

That looks sweet!

[jlued686]

I'll stick some new mockup pics of PC-Gunjin up here soon.  In the meantime, there is this: http://fragmare.mindrec.com/pc-gunjin.htm

God...that looks like it could (could've?) be amazing.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Make a game with a buncha brits called CUNTRA: HARD TWATS

[spenoza]

One thing I worry about is 2 player mode and sprite line limits. I know there are ways around them, using coordinated flicker and whatnot, but too much flicker could kill a good run n' gun.

[nat]

There is nothing worse than dying from a bullet invisible due to flicker.

[spenoza]

Well, deliberate flicker is better than accidental/unintended flicker. If you simply display something on every other frame, you at least ensure that the item will be predictably visible, and not have bullets and enemies just disappearing randomly. And you don't want to put too many constraints on how much stuff you have going on in a run n' gun.

[FraGMarE]

One thing I worry about is 2 player mode and sprite line limits. I know there are ways around them, using coordinated flicker and whatnot, but too much flicker could kill a good run n' gun.

Eh, look at Contra III on the SNES.  They managed just fine with the same sprite buffer as the PCE/TG16 (256 sprite pixels per line).  They just alternately flickered the player bullets in 2p co-op mode afaik.

[Keranu]

I think Hard Corps used the same flicker trick on 2 players.

[Tatsujin]

Ark! MEME CREATOR!!!!

lol, not exactry, this time \o/

[spenoza]

One thing I worry about is 2 player mode and sprite line limits. I know there are ways around them, using coordinated flicker and whatnot, but too much flicker could kill a good run n' gun.

Eh, look at Contra III on the SNES.  They managed just fine with the same sprite buffer as the PCE/TG16 (256 sprite pixels per line).  They just alternately flickered the player bullets in 2p co-op mode afaik.

Really? I thought the SNES could put more sprite pixels on a line... I know it can put more sprites on a line, at least. Don't know about actual pixel limits.

[ccovell]

Really? I thought the SNES could put more sprite pixels on a line... I know it can put more sprites on a line, at least. Don't know about actual pixel limits.

It's actually 280 pixels (35 sprites) per scanline.   Er... or so my old SFC press release says.

[spenoza]

I did some web searching and found support for the 256 sprite-pixels per line limit. But the SNES can put more sprites on a line than the PCE and it can also display larger sprites (up to 64 x 64), which means the SNES's sprite-pixel limitation is much more restrictive than the sprites per line limitation. Unless there's a level of interpretation here I'm not getting, like the sprite pixels are per scan line and the sprite per line limit is screen regions called lines and not merely scan lines.

[OldRover]

spenoza, it seems you are indeed missing something here. The sprite-pixels-per-line (yes, that means scanline) limit is absolute. The SNES is capable of 256 sprite pixels per line. If you put more, then sprites are clipped. It works that way on all the 16 bit consoles (yes, including the Neo Geo, but its limits are way higher... close to 1000 pixels, iirc). You can put as many sprites on a line as you want but that doesn't mean they're all going to be displayed. The SNES is a sprite monster but developers still have to follow the rules.

[spenoza]

What I mean is, if there is a sprite pixel per line limit and a sprite object/tile limit per line, does the most conservative value always trump?

[FraGMarE]

Really? I thought the SNES could put more sprite pixels on a line... I know it can put more sprites on a line, at least. Don't know about actual pixel limits.

It's actually 280 pixels (35 sprites) per scanline.   Er... or so my old SFC press release says.

Hmm, I've never heard 280px for the SNES.  It's always been 256px worth of sprite data that I've heard.  I'm not sure how accurate this is, but this is similar to what I've always seen http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Super_NES_Programming/SNES_Specs

I *do* know the SNES (and Genesis) had a smaller minimum sprite size than the PCE.  That is, they could display an 8x8 sprite and it would only count as 8px towards the scanline limit.  In contrast, the smallest valid sprite size on the PCE was 16x16.  The smaller sprites came in handy for tiny bullets and whatnot.  As an artist, I sometimes wish the PCE incremented sprite cells in 8 pixel increments (like it does with bg tiles) but alas, that's not how things panned out.  :/

[OldRover]

What I mean is, if there is a sprite pixel per line limit and a sprite object/tile limit per line, does the most conservative value always trump?

Tiles do not work the same way as sprites. Tiles do not have a "per line" limit; tiles never overlap and cannot be placed in random locations on the screen. Sprites can be placed anywhere, and can overlap all day long. They are two completely different schemes.

[FraGMarE]

What I mean is, if there is a sprite pixel per line limit and a sprite object/tile limit per line, does the most conservative value always trump?

The sprite pixel per line and sprite object per line limit is one in the same.    When you hear people say the PCE's limit is 256 pixels or 16 sprites they mean you can have sixteen 16px wide sprites on a given scanline.  You can also have eight 32px wide sprites on a line.  You can also combine them and have, say, six 32px sprites and two 16px wide sprites.  But at no time can you have more than 256px worth of sprite data on any given scanline, else it'll start dropping the lowest priority sprite's graphic data for that line.  The Genesis is the same way, but its limit is 320px of sprite data per line (at least in 320x240 res mode).  The SNES is similar to the PCE, except for the fact that instead of dropping the bottom-most sprites when it flickers (i.e., the lowest priority sprites), it'll drop the top-most sprites (highest priority).  This can be good or bad, depending on if the flicker is intentional or not.  Also, as I stated one post up, the Genesis and SNES differ from the PCE/TG16 in that they have a smaller minimum sprite size.  Their smallest sprite size is 8x8 as opposed to the PCE/TG16, which has a minimum sprite size of 16x16.  The SNES and Genesis also have larger maximum sprite sizes (up to 64px wide, iirc).  So on the SNES and Genesis, that means more combinations of various sprite sizes are possible on a given scanline.  Either way you look at it, though, the limit is absolute for each respective system and cannot be exceeded.  Hope that helps clarify things a bit for you.

[OldRover]

Almost, Frag. The Genesis is limited to a max size of 32x32. Only the SNES can do 64x64.

[FraGMarE]

Ah okay.  I'm not as familiar with Genesis/SNES graphical limits, obviously, since I only draw pixel art for the PC-Engine.  But my point still stands regarding sprite buffer limits.  That is to say, whether you're using 8, 16, 32 or 64 pixel wide sprites for whatever system, it all counts towards the scanline limit the same way.  You can mix and match and combine various sprite sizes on a line however you like, but you can't exceed a particular system's sprite buffer and expect to see all the sprites on a line.