Low cost Flash Hucard

esteban · 04/21/2012, 05:02 AM

Quote from: gameofyou on 04/20/2012, 09:56 PMOk, I have the first prototype assembled:

And good news, I have successfully gotten the USB communications working (after fixing a couple dumb software mistakes). It won't be long now, before I can insert it into my PC-Engine...

That is beautiful. A tear is rolling down my cheek.

Seriously, though, you have been making excellent progress with all aspects (no just the hardware) of this project.

cabbage · 04/21/2012, 07:41 AM

Really looking forward to this since my neo pce flash cart is out of commission for the time being. Everything is looking great so far

grahf · 04/21/2012, 09:14 AM

That's awesome! Nice job!

For the final design, have you considered using a mini-usb connector instead of the type-b connector? Everything else is fairly low-profile, so mini-usb would be awesome. Or instead of having only mini-usb, it looks like you could add headers for both types of connectors on the PCB, if you wanted. What do you think?

ccovell · 04/21/2012, 10:03 AM

I'd opt for micro-USB myself... The whole point being to get the thing as flat as a card.

spenoza · 04/21/2012, 10:36 AM

The mini and micro USB connectors really don't have that much difference in overall size. I suggest using the same USB connector most phones are currently using for charging. That way everyone will already have half a dozen or so loose USB cables sitting around.

TailChao · 04/21/2012, 08:51 PM

This is a very nice, clean design. Good work

I'm going to need to learn more about USB... everything I make still requires a chip programmer. Being able to flash with just a PC is so nice.

gameofyou · 04/21/2012, 11:57 PM

Quote from: grahf on 04/21/2012, 09:14 AMThat's awesome! Nice job!

For the final design, have you considered using a mini-usb connector instead of the type-b connector? Everything else is fairly low-profile, so mini-usb would be awesome. Or instead of having only mini-usb, it looks like you could add headers for both types of connectors on the PCB, if you wanted. What do you think?

My original thought on the USB is that it would be nice to have a full-size connector so that you can grab onto it to pull the card out. Adding a footprint for both types is a good idea. I will look into this if I get time.

Hopefully this isn't against board rules, but can anyone send me a KNOWN GOOD PC-Engine game file? It doesn't matter if it's commercial or homebrew, I just need something to test. My email address is gameofyou _at_ sbcglobal.net. Thanks!

ccovell · 04/22/2012, 12:27 AM

You can always try out (plug time) some demos from my page: https://www.chrismcovell.com/creations.html

The BRAM tool, for example, won't work on the Tototek flash card, for whatever reason. (Tototek one erases/disables BRAM randomly for regular HuCard games too...)

gameofyou · 04/22/2012, 02:45 PM

Thanks ccovell !

I have made a major breakthrough today and got one of ccovell's demos up and running on the HuCard !!!

Before I tested the demo, I had done a test where I loaded AfterBurner II into the flash memory, over the USB link. I then read the data back out of the flash memory and compared it to the original game file and they matched exactly. This meant that the flash writing routines and the USB communication routines are working correctly.

However, when I attempted to play the game on the PC-Engine, I got nothing but a blank screen. However, ccovell's demo works correctly. The only thing I can think of is that maybe the two highest address lines are backwards. Because ccovell's demo is small enough that A18 and A19 will both always be zero.

One other interesting thing is that I had to do the "bit swap" operation on all of the databytes, in order to get ccovell's demo to run.

gameofyou · 04/22/2012, 03:44 PM

Holy crap! I have finally gotten my first commercial game up and running on the flash HuCard! I downloaded the USA version of Alien Crush, and enabled the "Bit-flipping". This allows the game to run perfectly on my PC-Engine!

Alien Crush is also a 256KByte game, which reinforces my belief that the larger games don't run because I have a couple address lines flipped.

thesteve · 04/22/2012, 04:22 PM

ya might have better luck using JP region games, as the PCE has a secondary region lock
unless your PCE has the pin29 mod

gameofyou · 04/22/2012, 05:56 PM

Quote from: thesteve on 04/22/2012, 04:22 PMya might have better luck using JP region games, as the PCE has a secondary region lock
unless your PCE has the pin29 mod

My AfterBurner II attempts were with a JPN region game.

mrhaboobi · 04/22/2012, 05:56 PM

i cant believehow quicky you have put this together.. i shudder at the thought of soldering those fine components.. Most impressive.. put me down for one

esteban · 04/22/2012, 07:17 PM

Quote from: gameofyou on 04/22/2012, 03:44 PMHoly crap! I have finally gotten my first commercial game up and running on the flash HuCard! I downloaded the USA version of Alien Crush, and enabled the "Bit-flipping". This allows the game to run perfectly on my PC-Engine!

Alien Crush is also a 256KByte game, which reinforces my belief that the larger games don't run because I have a couple address lines flipped.

Remember the single tear running down my cheek a few days ago? Well now it is a gale-force hurricane of tears as you rip through this project faster than I can recycle screenshots.

HercTNT · 04/22/2012, 07:53 PM

This is truly amazing stuff. Really nice work!

grahf · 04/23/2012, 07:14 AM

Oh hell yeah!
Any chance you could test it with Chris's new wave sound generator?
https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=11401.0
That would make my day!

Nando · 04/23/2012, 01:15 PM

WOW!

burn_654 · 04/23/2012, 03:05 PM

Possibly try removing the header from the file?

Commercial games are going to have a header from the dumping tools used, homebrew likely does not have this.

gameofyou · 04/25/2012, 04:15 PM

Quote from: burn_654 on 04/23/2012, 03:05 PMPossibly try removing the header from the file?

Commercial games are going to have a header from the dumping tools used, homebrew likely does not have this.

I think you might be on to something there burn_654 !

I have done some further testing. My address lines are correct as originally routed. I proved this by having a large game loaded (Soldier Blade) and trying the address lines swaped. It played music, but the graphics were messed up. I switched the two address lines back to the original configuration and the game played perfectly!

So, I am satisfied that my hardware is 100% correct now, which is a big relief. But I would still like to figure out why a lot of games won't play. So far I have successfully run Alien Crush, Devil's Crush, and Soldier Blade. They were all USA games, so I had to enable BIT-swap in my software to play them on my PC-Engine. Also I edited each hex file at offset 0x0B, and changed the 0xF0 to an 0x80, like is described in the HuCard pinout documents online (this is a secondary form of region protection).

So, I have yet to actually get a PC-Engine game running on my PC-Engine. I think burn_654 has the right idea about there being unwanted data in the files I am trying. When I look at the PC-Engine rom files that I have, there are a bunch of zeros up until 200 Hex. The USA games do not have this large group of zero data.

If anyone has any expertise with HuCard files or any insights, I would appreciate the help.

burn_654 · 04/25/2012, 04:53 PM

Well, the header is 512 bytes. I'd use PCEToy
(http://www.zophar.net/utilities/tg16aud/pcetoy32.html)
to remove it or windhex's 'Remove SNES header' will do the trick.
(http://www.zophar.net/utilities/hexutil/windhex.html)
PCEToy can also do some of the bit-swapping operations.

It's entirely possible that the games you got working did not have headers, I wouldn't rule it out.
Everything else sounds correct from what I've read - the bit-swapping and the region bit for us games.

Did you try the japanese versions of those respective games? (Alien Crush, Devil's Crush, Soldier Blade)

gameofyou · 04/25/2012, 06:43 PM

You are a genius, dude. That was it! After stripping the stupid header, I was able to play Liquid Kids!!!

Ok, I have a little more testing to do with my PC-Engine, and then I am going to ship the proto-card to 'thesteve', where he can test it on multiple systems. After that, I am going to have production pcbs made, and order all the components.

I have come up with a final price of $45 for the flash HuCard. I know that's a little higher than my original estimations, but there were a couple factors that raised the price: 1) the pcb needs to be a custom thickness (not the standard .062") and 2) the added cost of gold flash on the edge connectors. At that price, I will still be able to make a little money for my time (both development and assembly), and reinburse some of the development costs. Also, any money I make will go towards future pcb and component purchases if there seems to be demand for it.

We can keep this on the "down-low" until everyone here that wants a card has gotten one. After that, feel free to post about it wherever you like.

I have already started a website for the flash HuCard. It is just a first draft, but there is software and documents available if anyone wants to take an early look:
http://www.gamingenterprisesinc.com/Flash_HuCard/

Thanks to everyone on this board for their help, and enthusiasm which helped keep me motivated.

thesteve · 04/25/2012, 07:22 PM

as to the custom thickness
if you can get plastic sheets the proper thickness to glue to the back to make it right it would be better than having the board made special
having a plastic sheet on the back will help protect the board

soop · 04/25/2012, 07:42 PM

Quote from: thesteve on 04/25/2012, 07:22 PMas to the custom thickness
if you can get plastic sheets the proper thickness to glue to the back to make it right it would be better than having the board made special
having a plastic sheet on the back will help protect the board

smart!

gameofyou · 04/25/2012, 07:58 PM

Quote from: thesteve on 04/25/2012, 07:22 PMas to the custom thickness
if you can get plastic sheets the proper thickness to glue to the back to make it right it would be better than having the board made special
having a plastic sheet on the back will help protect the board

Yeah, that's what I'm doing now for the proto-board. It is much easier to just have the correct thickness board made. I intentionally didn't route any traces under the edge connectors. So it will just be bare fiberglass pcb under the edge connectors. It will hold up just fine.

ccovell · 04/25/2012, 08:51 PM

Did you test this out with 3Mbit and 6Mbit hu-card games? IIRC, they have an odd way of mapping their banks.

grahf · 04/26/2012, 07:29 AM

I'm really looking forward to ordering one of these. Any idea on shipping costs to Japan?

gameofyou · 04/26/2012, 08:52 AM

Quote from: ccovell on 04/25/2012, 08:51 PMDid you test this out with 3Mbit and 6Mbit hu-card games? IIRC, they have an odd way of mapping their banks.

If you can give me any specific game titles, I can give them a try. It sounds like if there is an issue, that it could be addressed by an update of the PC software. There is enough flexibility in the existing communication protocol for placing a gap (or gaps) in where the rom code is located in the flash memory of the HuCard.

gameofyou · 04/26/2012, 08:55 AM

Quote from: grahf on 04/26/2012, 07:29 AMI'm really looking forward to ordering one of these. Any idea on shipping costs to Japan?

A quick look at usps.com shows that standard airmail is $10 (no tracking), and Priority Mail (faster, & with tracking) is $17. This is going to be typical pricing for any location outside the USA.

Arkhan Asylum · 04/26/2012, 10:08 AM

I am interested as well, as this may be another good thing to use for demoing and testing games from Aetherbyte

futureman2000 · 04/26/2012, 10:19 AM

I'll be in on one of these too. It's very cool being able to follow the development of the card!

ccovell · 04/26/2012, 11:15 AM

Quote from: gameofyou on 04/26/2012, 08:52 AMIf you can give me any specific game titles, I can give them a try. It sounds like if there is an issue, that it could be addressed by an update of the PC software. There is enough flexibility in the existing communication protocol for placing a gap (or gaps) in where the rom code is located in the flash memory of the HuCard.

Try Neutopia (3M), Neutopia II (6M), and Raiden (6M). There are many other 3M games as well...

Keith Courage · 04/26/2012, 01:20 PM

I'd like to by one of these as well. Finally a way to play all the Japanese to English translated roms that are out there besides using an emulator.

PikachuWarrior · 04/26/2012, 04:57 PM

I might be interested in one depending how it turns out in the end!

Chuplayer · 04/26/2012, 07:47 PM

100% count me in.

esteban · 04/26/2012, 08:26 PM

I will buy one as well

ccovell · 04/26/2012, 08:51 PM

Me too! Me too! Of course.

Keranu · 04/26/2012, 08:51 PM

Would it be possible to use a flashcard as a Arcade Card on US systems?

roflmao · 04/26/2012, 08:57 PM

I want one too.

spenoza · 04/26/2012, 09:16 PM

Yeah, I want one. I'm in.

thesteve · 04/26/2012, 09:51 PM

Quote from: Keranu on 04/26/2012, 08:51 PMWould it be possible to use a flashcard as a Arcade Card on US systems?

no due to the arcade card being a memory bank and mapper

_Paul · 04/27/2012, 12:46 PM

WANT.

mrhaboobi · 04/28/2012, 05:08 AM

Also keen, but would need shipping to New Zealand

gameofyou · 04/28/2012, 01:31 PM

Quote from: ccovell on 04/26/2012, 11:15 AMTry Neutopia (3M), Neutopia II (6M), and Raiden (6M). There are many other 3M games as well...

I tried Raiden and it worked correctly, with no problems. However, I couldn't get the Neutopia games to boot. I am not sure of the reason for this yet.

In the meantime, I have mailed the prototype card to 'thesteve' today, for further testing on different systems. Maybe he will have better luck than I did with the Neutopia games.

esteban · 04/28/2012, 01:32 PM

Quote from: gameofyou on 04/28/2012, 01:31 PM
Quote from: ccovell on 04/26/2012, 11:15 AMTry Neutopia (3M), Neutopia II (6M), and Raiden (6M). There are many other 3M games as well...
I tried Raiden and it worked correctly, with no problems. However, I couldn't get the Neutopia games to boot. I am not sure of the reason for this yet.

In the meantime, I have mailed the prototype card to 'thesteve' today, for further testing on different systems. Maybe he will have better luck than I did with the Neutopia games.

Superb progress!

thesteve · 04/28/2012, 10:08 PM

id love to have my own, and would have no issue building it.
willing to assemble a few for others as well

arromdee · 04/30/2012, 12:43 AM

Have you considered, once this is complete, telling the people who created ucon64 so that they can add support for it?

Bernie · 04/30/2012, 05:30 AM

WOW!! Truly amazed at how fast this churned out from the time you announced your project! Put me down for a couple as well.

spenoza · 05/03/2012, 01:05 AM

One thing you might want to look into while testing is trying games that have level selects, and jumping around to make sure it's getting at data in all difference places.

thesteve · 05/03/2012, 02:23 PM

the proto is here
first impression (nice board)
i like the power light
arrived with raiden installed
tested in my modded express
works perfect in JP mode power draw slightly less then my SF2 cart 10-20mA diff
will test software later
the large USB plug makes my TE sit funny (needs a smaller plug)

gameofyou · 05/03/2012, 06:04 PM

Quote from: thesteve on 05/03/2012, 02:23 PMthe large USB plug makes my TE sit funny (needs a smaller plug)

The production board will be fitted with a mini-usb connector. Actually, there are patterns for both (standard size or mini), but I will be assembling them with the mini-usb.

Good luck with your testing!