HuCards that look as good as SNES games

[Arkhan Asylum]

im pretty sure he's trollin foar teh lulz.

plus, anyone that doesn't worship PCE is a retarded window licker.

[SamIAm]

I think that a side-by-side comparison of PCE and SNES graphics is a lot like the Pepsi Challenge. Nearly everyone who took that test said that Pepsi tasted better, yet the general population continued to buy vastly more Coke. Some still argue about why, but most agree that the only reason that the Pepsi Challenge always came out in Pepsi's favor was because of how much more overwhelming the sweetness of Pepsi is when taken side-by-side with Coke. It simply stands out more. Over the long-run, however, Coke is the more satisfying choice for most people.

That's how I feel about a lot of PCE graphics. The colors are more vivid, and there tends to be a lot of contrast in the palette, so they stand out really well taken side-by-side. However, the best of the SNES games have their own kind of balance and richness which is appealing in a way that people are not always really conscious of.

Don't get me wrong, a lot of those comparisons are clear wins for the PCE, and I love the look of games on this system. I just also love the look of SNES games, too, and I feel that they get a little too much flak for being "washed out".

[Tatsujin]

that has something.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I took the pepsi challenge and knew which was which.

I sipped the first one (pepsi) and said "this pepsi is nasty give me the coke!" and they were like O_O

fuck pepsi.

[Samurai Ghost]

Well in the States at least the SNES did so well at least partially because of the success of the NES. I mean, up until fairly recently people still said "playing Nintendo" when they meant playing video games. I'm sure many old folks still do. So the SNES was a guaranteed success either way, especially when so many of their franchises were household names, and they dominated the third party market though less than savory business practices in the 8-bit era. It's amazing SEGA could break through as well as they did at the time with the Genesis.

I grew up playing the Sega Master System and I think I knew one other kid who had one. The Genesis was a no-brainer for me, and I just enjoyed the types of games which were released for SEGA systems, and still do. I had seen and read about the TG-16 as a kid but getting a new piece of hardware was a pretty rare event for me, so I went with what I knew, and I think that's what a lot of people did with the SNES. Plus a lot of great games from third parties such as Konami, Capcom, Squaresoft, Hudson, etc., came out for the system along with some first party gems. So to me I think the success of the SNES has very little to do with the hardware but with the marketing, demographic appeal, and a decent library of games well-supported by third parties. Nintendo has been successful at grabbing the casual and mainstream market with the DS and Wii as well, and it works for them, but for me I don't really see the company are the pinnacle of gaming as so many people actually do. But I think I'm preaching to the choir here! Sorry for the wall-o'-text!

[spenoza]

I love the PC Engine but the Super Famicom/SNES is simply the greatest games console of all time, anyone who disagrees lives in a world of fail.

My opinion is fact, and if you disagree that opinions make great facts, my opinion is that you suck (that's a fact, yo!).

[Mathius]

I like 'em both

[soop]

I like 'em both

I like them both too, but I struggle sometimes to find as many good games on the SNES as the PCE.  If you ask 10 people the best SNES games, there's probably gonna be the 7 same games on every list.*

Ask people their top 10 PC Engine games, and there's probably more variety

*ok, that probably is bullshit, but I'm just saying, a lot of people are gonna choose things like Mario Kart, Mario World, DK country, Secret of Mana, and Final Fantasy or something.  But I think there's a lot of bad to average games for the SNES, and they're all so damned expensive.

That said, when the SNES does good, it does REALLY good.

[CrackTiger]

I've found that it's usually casual players who have generic top lists, because they don't really explore catalogs and never try games that don't fall within popular genres unless they're told they're hip to be aware of. The language barrier is a deal breaker for these types, but it never even gets that far for it to be an issue.

Too often when people dismiss the PCE, they say they know everything there is to know about it because they've tried or seen Lords of Thunder and Dracula X. Mention a game they've never heatd of and they'll point out that it can't be any good if they've never heard about it, just like the Turbo/PCE in general.

The SNES gets unfairly trashed too often the same way as well, usually by Genesis fans. One popular argument is that only the 10% of RPGs which were released in English count and if they can't get into a game or it's from a genre they don't play, then it sux.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I like all systems equally

except I like the PCE more.

lol

[RegalSin]

Okay the SNES, and Genesis programming wise could not out do a PCE.
The SNES and Genesis are both using boards cassettes, while the PCE is using boards......credit card sized things. Of course the SNES would have the storage capabilities, that out weighs a PCE card.

Vampire Kiss on the SNES compared to the PCE is a completly differnt, and smaller PCE game. I was reading their was an actual computer port of the SNES game???

Y's4 is another example of the above. They downsized a brilliant game to make it so that is appears like two differnt versions, The same with Mega Bomberman on the Genesis, PCE, and SNES.

A better example is Shin Mega Tensi series. The SNES got the whole shebang, but the PCE and the Mega Drive only got the first game. Why? Because they probably tallied up the sales total, and decided it was best to sell on the SNES.

The same could be said for the fallout of the Saturn generation. You
could be apart of the "now" generation or what was best. It was obvious that the gaming communities wanted to keep the Saturn as prime. However the PSX 3d programming was already being programmed from 1991 ( from a company who speciality was televisions, computers, and sound systems that is a simple death wish ).

All of the entire SNES games could run and play well, on the PCE. Why didn't they do it? Because they were worried about sales, and profits. From my understanding in Japan. They make more games then they need to produce, and that is why we have so many new games out their in the wild? 

Hudson, Sega, and NEC all were once greats but in reality like the Amiga,
Apple, and Atari they are really the underdogs. Everybody knows their potentials, and why they should be considered best but to keep up with
coperate, and consumer standards is like fighting a wall of fire.

We all know the PCE was and is better, then the SNES, and Genesis combined. We even know the PCE was better then the all the SEGA modifications to the original Genesis. The PCE could take on the Saturn
with the right equipment, but Hudson I believe was far from doing battle along with NEC being the upper hand over EA games suggestion.

Then the N64 had westerners approval for the usage of the Silicon Graphic workstations ( which made it easier for 3d development for the west ).

Everybody simply wants that crutch or crotch to stand on. So they do not have to gamble at their chances of sales. It is like how everybody wear the latest fashion trends to feel they belong, or that they are smart, or how vendors all buy expensive celluar phones, and flat screen televisions to look as if the store is doing well.

[futureman2000]

Everybody simply wants that crutch or crotch to stand on.

Word.

[esteban]

I've found that it's usually casual players who have generic top lists, because they don't really explore catalogs and never try games that don't fall within popular genres unless they're told they're hip to be aware of. The language barrier is a deal breaker for these types, but it never even gets that far for it to be an issue.

Too often when people dismiss the PCE, they say they know everything there is to know about it because they've tried or seen Lords of Thunder and Dracula X. Mention a game they've never heatd of and they'll point out that it can't be any good if they've never heard about it, just like the Turbo/PCE in general.

The SNES gets unfairly trashed too often the same way as well, usually by Genesis fans. One popular argument is that only the 10% of RPGs which were released in English count and if they can't get into a game or it's from a genre they don't play, then it sux.

Well said.  .

[RyuHayabusa]

Something that seems to have been overlooked in this discussion are possible reasons why games ported between the PCE - SNES - Mega Drive may be better or worse other than hardware strengths and weaknesses. For instance, some ports are done by different companies and we all know that some companies are known for good ports and others put out absolute shit. Outrun on the PCE was excellent and was ported by NEC Avenue, whereas the Mega Drive port was done by Hertz and wasn't as good. Ys III was ported by Hudson on the PCE while Tonkin House did the SNES port. Not all developers are equal. All one has to do is look at Golden Axe, developed by Telenet, to see that some developers just do not know how to exploit the power of the platform they're making games for. We all know the PCE could do better than that. I defy you to tell me that Strider on the PCE looks better than the MD port. The colors are terrible, the lightning effects on stage 2 are terrible as well, along with many other things, plus it was on the Arcade Card. Why? Because NEC Avenue made a shit port with the exception of the soundtrack.

It's been touched on already but the storage medium used plays a huge part as well. Ghouls N Ghosts looked great at the time it came out for the MD but pales in comparison to the SGX port. Besides the SGX being more powerful, it was 8mb versus 5mb for the MD. With those extra 3mb of space they were able to put more background tiles in, more animation, etc. Given the extra memory the MD port could've been almost as good. All the missing roots in the hillside on stage 1 would be there, the level 1 boss animation would be there, etc. Forgotten Worlds is another example. The PCE port is a Super CD and allows for so many more background tiles, animations, etc. The MD port was 4mb I believe, while the the PCE could use 2mb per level. Admittedly that Sphinx boss looks like ass but it could've been better.

Lastly, I'm a huge PCE fan, been collecting for over 10 years, owned nearly every piece of PCE hardware, owned tons of games, etc, but gotta say that all the SNES hate is kinda crazy. Too many great games on that console to bash it.

[Mathius]

I don't understand the SNES hate either though I understand (but not really agree with) the arguments. I love the SNES! And the PCE! And the MD! And the NES! And the Neo Geo! And the N64! ...and I can go on, and on, and on, and....

[esteban]

To build on what Ryu and Mathius have already said: I don't understand the SNES hate! Very silly.

Cook wants the hate to take a permanent vacation.

[roflmao]

Agreed.

[soop]

Definitely.  Over at Sega 16 I see ridiculous threads bashing the SNES or the PC Engine, which I don't get involved in, and I feel kind of pleased that we don't have that crap in the PCE community.  I like to think of it as a reflection that we know what we're talking about.

But I have and play all 3, have games I love on all of them, and despite their flaws I wouldn't change any of them.

I just like the PC Engine more ;)

[Tatsujin]

Over at Sega 16 I see ridiculous threads bashing the SNES

OK, this is one thing.

or the PC Engine

but this is just ridiculous

[grahf]

Definitely.  Over at Sega 16 I see ridiculous threads bashing the SNES or the PC Engine...

Not only on Sega 16, unfortunately. To me, this phenomenon seems mostly relegated  to the SMS and MD/Genesis fans. There is a tremendous amount of hate from these guys towards other systems (especially SNES), but not the same amount in the other direction.

 I think it might have a lot to do with Sega's marketing in the US. Sega made it cool to hate the SNES, and I think a lot of Genesis fans seem to still be brainwashed from the TV commercials.

[soop]

Well, as a kid, I didn't like a lot of MD games.  I saw it as a bit of a 3rd rate system compared to my Amiga, but it's the same with anything, the quality of the titles you're exposed to means a hell of a lot, and Gynoug, Quack Shot, Streets of Rage and Sonic couldn't balance out Wrestle War, Last Battle, Ecco, Desert Strike* and all the countless football games.  Years later, I got to choose my own games (rather than play for half an hour at friends houses) and I got to like the system for what it was.

The opposite happened with my friend.  He was so drawn in by the legend, Yu Suzuki, Space Harrier, Outrun, and Thunderforce, that he's nearly exclusively Sega.  He went Megadrive, Saturn, Dreamcast... and pretty much stopped there. He plays some stuff that's not current gen and I think he owns a GBA, but that's how much the Sega bug bit him.

*these games are not necessarily bad, but they're either too deep to get into in a short time, or too shallow  to want to pay more than £2 for

My Megadrive is currently unplugged.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Man, does anyone else remember being littler and not giving two fucks what system was what?

I used to play Sega and Turbob at the same time.

lol.

[Nando]

Man, does anyone else remember being littler and not giving two fucks what system was what?

I used to play Sega and Turbob at the same time.

lol.

Yes but marketers did a good job of creating these messages that pushed the hatorade that we see now. Ultimately what we learn is that the power of advertising IS STRONG like the dark side.

Now on to collect those retro machines that made you happy and discover a whole bunch of new ones.


Oh and as far as graphics, IMO, it's a matter of art direction, and knowing what to do with what a systems gives you.

[soop]

Man, does anyone else remember being littler and not giving two fucks what system was what?

I used to play Sega and Turbob at the same time.

lol.

Nope.  I was pretty poor when I was a kid, and I could only really afford one system, and every birthday or xmas, getting a few games for that system.

Mine was my Amiga. I used my Dad's, and I got my first A500 after I sold my Speccy and my C64 to fund it and never looked back.

I used to get the occasional magazine after the SNES and Megadrive came out, and I had friends with those systems.  But there was no way I could afford a second system until much later, and reviews and screenshots played an important part of the decision making process!

[Arkhan Asylum]

At least the Amiga looked sweet, and had some of the same games.

Some of them really blow on Amiga though because of the stupid 1 button design.

[CrackTiger]

Definitely.  Over at Sega 16 I see ridiculous threads bashing the SNES or the PC Engine...

Not only on Sega 16, unfortunately. To me, this phenomenon seems mostly relegated  to the SMS and MD/Genesis fans. There is a tremendous amount of hate from these guys towards other systems (especially SNES), but not the same amount in the other direction.

 I think it might have a lot to do with Sega's marketing in the US. Sega made it cool to hate the SNES, and I think a lot of Genesis fans seem to still be brainwashed from the TV commercials.

Although I do see the more passionately hate from Sega fans, it's more of an underdog thing. Similar Nintendo fans dismiss rival consoles and games without really caring because they believe that it is a given that Nintendo is perfection and everything else pales in comparison. They'll even justify ignorance by saying there's no point actually learning about other games because there's no way they can be as good and they're only interested in the best of the best. While many SNES hating Genesis fans seem to study famous SNES games just to find things to find things to ctiticize.

Too many Sega and Nintendo fanboys miss out on the PCE altogether because they suffer from the Nintendo elitist syndrome combined with game mag propaganda and honestly believe that the PCE   really is just an 8-bit caliber consile with pretty colors and they don't have to try the games to know that they're not worthwhile.

In the end you wind up with a bunch of people arguing about who knows best over something where each side is unfamiliar with the other.

[soop]

At least the Amiga looked sweet, and had some of the same games.

Some of them really blow on Amiga though because of the stupid 1 button design.

Damn right.  Up to jump, WTF.

I can't believe how few people put in options to use a MD pad, or even a CD32 pad, when they were about £10 a pop.

[Arkhan Asylum]

yeah thats the worst part .

the Amiga can do more buttons but it don't help when the games don't support it.

Shadow of the Beast looks awesome but plays like ass on the Amiga.

[Nando]

http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_AMIGAmini.aspx

[Arkhan Asylum]

listen, don't post that MacMini knock off wannabe amiga revival bullshit!

  lol

there is no boing ball, or rainbow checkmark.

Revivalfail.

[Tatsujin]

Too many Sega and Nintendo fanboys miss out on the PCE altogether because they suffer from the Nintendo elitist syndrome combined with game mag propaganda and honestly believe that the PCE  really is just an 8-bit caliber consile with pretty colors and they don't have to try the games to know that they're not worthwhile.

That's kinda sad, but it's also..

btw. still makes me big rolfmaololing when ever i look at this:

vs.

 

[Nando]

listen, don't post that MacMini knock off wannabe amiga revival bullshit!

  lol

there is no boing ball, or rainbow checkmark.

Revivalfail.

lmao - thought you'd get a kick out of it. Talk about relying on brand name.

[Arkhan Asylum]

yeah I've been laughing at those stupid C64 and Amiga recreations for awhlie now.   The C64 ones were worse.  they stick it in a breadbin but its just a fuckin netbook basically.  lies and filth.

[nat]

http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_AMIGAmini.aspx

What the hell is this?

Amiga, Inc. actually makes new, modern Amigas (boing ball and all) but this looks like some pirate knock-off by a grey-market manufacturer. I'm not even sure how they're getting away with it, considering Amiga, Inc. owns the Amiga brand.

[td741]

http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_AMIGAmini.aspx

What the hell is this?

Amiga, Inc. actually makes new, modern Amigas (boing ball and all) but this looks like some pirate knock-off by a grey-market manufacturer. I'm not even sure how they're getting away with it, considering Amiga, Inc. owns the Amiga brand.

Err...  Not quite... "Amiga Inc" is more or less a patent/licensing house.  At first they were geared towards an "AmigaAnywhere" run-everywhere OS which didn't quite go anywhere.

In the mordern "Amiga's":

There is an "AmigaOne" series of PPC-based computers that run Amiga OS4 developed (at least principally by Hyperion).  The computers themselves: AmigaOne XE/SE and Micro A1 by Eyetech (discontinued), SAM line of computers by Acube and the AmigaOne X1000 by A-EON.

Amiga OS4 can also run on a Pegasos II (more on that later. )

Alternatively, AmigaForever is a version of UAE packaged with other utilities made by Cloanto that have officially licensed Amiga roms.

Commodore USA bought the commodore licence and I think bought licensing to use the Amiga name for another line of PC based computers running its own OS?

Of course there is also MorphOS which is another "Amiga compatible" OS.  It's not compatible with OS4 (although there is an library you can install that will give you partial compatibility with OS4) but it will work with software developed for OS3.1 and earlier provided it doesn't do any hardware banging.   MorphOS runs on Pegasos Line of computers (Peg 1, and 2 are both discontinued), Efika PPC (discontinued) and the team is now concentrating on making the OS compatible with PPC-based macs (PowerMac G4's are more or less all compatible, even partial compatibility with the PPC Cube).

Last but not least, there's AROS and its variants.  AROS started out as an open-sourced reimplementation of AmigaOS 3.1 (other variants are aiming to add more modern features even if it breaks source-compatiblity).  AROS is typically aimed at x86-based systems but could be compiled for 68k and ran on original Amiga Hardware instead of AmigaOS.  The good thing is that 68K AROS (and a compiled AROS "ROM") could subtitute AmigaOS in an UAE installation and be used legally.

Of course, to be honest the order of this would be: AROS and MorphOS started their development, then Amiga OS4 followed by Commodore USA's OS.

[soop]

maaan.  I really loved the Amiga, and I kept up hope for many years that it would somehow survive or come back.  I think a lot of other people did.

But now they need stop fucking around with it's dull lifeless corpse.  It's pissing me off, and it never goes anywhere, it's just tarnishing the once-great name.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Commodore/Amiga is basically a hilarious joke now.

[td741]

Commodore/Amiga is basically a hilarious joke now.

Soap Opera would be more accurate.

[nat]

I tried to read td741's response, but I'm so thrilled I was able to coax multiple paragraphs out of him, I'll have to wait until I've settled down.

This is the same guy who was voted "PCEFX's Most Creepiest Member" back in 2007's "PCEFX's Most Creepiest Member" contest. He was the runaway winner with more time spent online than *any other member* since the 2006 forum software switch, and less than 100 posts (at the time) to his name.

Amazingly, he's no longer even in the top 10 users who've spent the most time online here. nectarsis has taken the crown as the current PCEFX creeper with almost DOUBLE the amount of online time as the #2 (Necromancer). While his high post count might lead you to believe he's not really a creeper, the fact that he virtually never posts anymore dictates he might as well have less than 100 posts to his name.

</derail>

[esteban]

I tried to read td741's response, but I'm so thrilled I was able to coax multiple paragraphs out of him, I'll have to wait until I've settled down.

This is the same guy who was voted "PCEFX's Most Creepiest Member" back in 2007's "PCEFX's Most Creepiest Member" contest. He was the runaway winner with more time spent online than *any other member* since the 2006 forum software switch, and less than 100 posts (at the time) to his name.

Amazingly, he's no longer even in the top 10 users who've spent the most time online here. nectarsis has taken the crown as the current PCEFX creeper with almost DOUBLE the amount of online time as the #2 (Necromancer). While his high post count might lead you to believe he's not really a creeper, the fact that he virtually never posts anymore dictates he might as well have less than 100 posts to his name.

</derail>

Hahahahahhahaa. Even before I read your post, I said to myself, "Holy Jesus, td is serious! He is providing an incredibly detailed response...I don't think he has ever written this much in his last 25 posts!"

Cook loves the AmigaOS.

[soop]

I tried to read td741's response, but I'm so thrilled I was able to coax multiple paragraphs out of him, I'll have to wait until I've settled down.

This is the same guy who was voted "PCEFX's Most Creepiest Member" back in 2007's "PCEFX's Most Creepiest Member" contest. He was the runaway winner with more time spent online than *any other member* since the 2006 forum software switch, and less than 100 posts (at the time) to his name.

Amazingly, he's no longer even in the top 10 users who've spent the most time online here. nectarsis has taken the crown as the current PCEFX creeper with almost DOUBLE the amount of online time as the #2 (NecroPhile). While his high post count might lead you to believe he's not really a creeper, the fact that he virtually never posts anymore dictates he might as well have less than 100 posts to his name.

</derail>

I can't believe I'm not up there.  My home PC is always on, and I usually have a tab open for here

[nat]

You've only had an account here for 1 year. The person at the top of the list has logged more online time on the forum than your account has even existed. Give it another year or so. If you're on as much as you claim, you'll make the list.