Interested in Supergun/Jamma for Time Killers

[cavein2000]

Okay, The thought has crossed my mind to hook up/purchase the Supergun/Jamma for Time Killers.  I have NO experience with this at all, but have been to the MultiMod website and tracked down a time killers jamma board.  Not sure what the voltage is for the jamma or which Supergun I would need.  Also, what additional hook ups would I need and controllers??? Again I have NO experience doing this at all, so every detail is critical to my understanding of this.

[D-Lite]

It seems that Time Killers is pretty standard JAMMA, so most superguns should work and probably doesn't need -5V.  Usually -5V is only for audio amps.

As for controllers, the most common way to set it up is to use Neo Geo controllers since they are not encoded and have 4 action buttons.  This is how I wire my superguns.

It's easier to use a supergun than you think.  Just consider it a console where the cartridges are JAMMA boards.

[cavein2000]

Hey there,

"Time Killers has 5 action buttons (non-JAMMA standard) and will require some additional wiring."

Is this a problem?  Are there other controllers that would suit this jamma board?

[D-Lite]

Hey there,

"Time Killers has 5 action buttons (non-JAMMA standard) and will require some additional wiring."

Is this a problem?  Are there other controllers that would suit this jamma board?

Yes and no.  If you know the type of connector and pinout it should be doable.  Where did you get the above info?  klov.com only mentions 5 buttons but not the connector needed or conversion class for that specific board.

[PCEngineHell]

Dean,you should not assume anything about Time Killers.
It requires negative 5 volts,yes its a 5 button game,and it also needs a sync cleaner on certain tvs if used in a supergun kit. Its very picky.
It will have sound without the -5 volts,but will reset every 30 secs or so,sometimes even less time,and if you try to start a game it will reset right away.
There is a German control mode where the game works with 3 buttons,but in this mode it combines crap and is very hard to play.
I just sold a supergun kit that could run this game,for around $190.00 on ebay.
I have 3 Time Killers boards now.2 Working,one half working. I have all revisions of the game.

[PCEngineHell]

The 4-5 buttons are on the jamma area.The fifth button is the same pin the select button would be found on on a mvs board.Right by pin for button 4.The fifth button is for the head attack.Its a easy wire up,but if your wanting a supergun kit to run it,you need to specifically ask for one that supports negative 5 volts,and has a sync cleaner included with the rgb encoder.

Also the joysticks need to be something other then NeoGeo aes sticks.The button layout on those is not good for Time Killers,and would make it very hard to play and enjoy. You have to press all the attack buttons to get the decapitation move,so basically you would want a arcade stick set up for Tekken and Primal Rage.Combos would also be harder to pull off on a neogeo layout and using the select button for the head attack would suck ass.

I have a working Time Killers pcb for sale right now on ebay,and if you desire a supergun to run it I could build you one and have it completed in about 2 weeks. Im fixing to build 2 supergun kits coming up,both will be priced within the range of $200.00-$230.00 and include arcade sticks for both player 1 and 2,and support for negative 5 volt games. My kits usually always support 5 button games like Time Killers,and if you like,I can add extra 6 button support for capcom games for the cost of the kick harness. Basically 15-20 bucks.

Your other option is a Massystem supergun,which will run you around $300.00,and 30 for shipping I think. Made of sturdy wood base with 2 6 button arcade sticks,and kick harness included. They have really good quality,and I do not think he will charge you extra if you ask the guy there,dont remember his name,but anyway if you ask him to wire it up so it also supports buttons 4 and 5 on the jamma harness. He might charge a tad extra for a sync cleaner.If he does not have one jrok can get you going Im sure.Hes a really nice guy and his prices for parts are wonderful,quality is A+++.

[cavein2000]

Thanks for the heads up everyone!!  I'm looking to pick up the system in a while...  not in the next month or so.  I have been on a spending spree that must take a short break:)  I should be up for something like this in early april!!  I will keep you in mind when I am ready to make the purchase!

[D-Lite]

Dean,you should not assume anything about Time Killers.
It requires negative 5 volts,yes its a 5 button game,and it also needs a sync cleaner on certain tvs if used in a supergun kit.Its very picky.
It will have sound without the -5 volts,but will reset every 30 secs or so,sometimes even less time,and if you try to start a game it will reset right away.
There is a German control mode where the game works with 3 buttons,but in this mode it combines crap and is very hard to play.
I just sold a supergun kit that could run this game,for around $190.00 on ebay.
I have 3 Time Killers boards now.2 Working,one half working.I have all revisions of the game.

Good to know.  Most games don't need -5V, so that's the only reason to assume it may not.  Thanks for clearing it up.  
I've been putting sync separators on most superguns I do since I find that different boards behave quite differently.  Take for instance Atomiswave and CPS2.  One needs the sync separation, the other can't have it at all.  Strange.  Neo doesn't matter either way.

The pinout with button 5 on pin 26 is the same then as Atomiswave.  By default I always pin that to #3 on the joystick ports since at least for Atomiswave the 5th button will work on the Select button.  Coin is on pin #2 of the ports so you can have a controller use it, but there are coins usually on superguns as well.

[PCEngineHell]

Yea,I figured you were doing it that way with the select button.That works fine for alot of stuff,as does the 4 button layout of the AES sticks,but using a AES stick for Time Killers,Primal Rage,Mortal Kombat,Tekken 3 ect...sucks.It takes away fluid game play.The Neo Cd game pads would work ok,but they cost too much,and they are not built to last.
What I really hate more then anything is the way Namco used that extra harness area for 2 buttons on the Tekken/Soul games.I work around it by wire modding the game pcb running wires from the extra harness area to pins for button 3-4 on the jamma area.This makes them playable on about any 4 button set-up without the need for the extra namco harness.The Neo AES stick layout is good for Soul Blade/edge,but its horrible for Tekken games.

[PCEngineHell]

A quick nod to Jrok.
Im more impressed with his stuff then anyone else out there right now making encoders.he def smacks the shit out of Great Western Trading cos encoder they sell on ebay for that matter.His RGB adjustment is easy to use,being on the encoder it works great in a break out box.
Not to say Neobitz and R2N suck,as they are great too,but Jrok is king in my book.He is also the friendliest I have dealt with on the encoder side of things.I look foward to using his stuff more in the future.

[D-Lite]

A quick nod to Jrok.
Im more impressed with his stuff then anyone else out there right now making encoders.he def smacks the shit out of Great Western Trading cos encoder they sell on ebay for that matter.His RGB adjustment is easy to use,being on the encoder it works great in a break out box.
Not to say Neobitz and R2N suck,as they are great too,but Jrok is king in my book.He is also the friendliest I have dealt with on the encoder side of things.I look foward to using his stuff more in the future.

I just got a pack of his newest stuff today.  Haven't had the chance to try them yet, but his v3.1 was great.  Of the encoders available, the JROK is the most compatible in terms of composite/S-Video since the Sony CXA2075 it uses is very good, compared to the AD chips in the others.  But component video is basically the same since the circuits are pretty standard and use standard op amps.  

And James (James Rowan/JROK) is a good guy I agree.  Fast shipping and friendly.  I've never had problems with Jeff Kurtz (NeoBitz) or CrazeArcade (R2N) either.  Basically it's a good group of guys.

[PCEngineHell]

Yea I agree,the CX is a better chip.I have had no problems with crazearcade,nor were they rude ever,but they just feel like when I go shop at a store that has self checkout.They just feel automated.
Neobitz wise Im told the guys very friendly,and he replied to a couple emails a while back fast,but quality wise Im so so on it.I have repaired two of them on Neo MVS MV-1c decks consolized. I dont kno wwhat the deal was but the AD chip would not work because it was not soldered down all the way tightly.After redoing it they worked fine.

I knew he sold kits that did not include the AD chip,so i was thinking the guys I did the fix for just did a shody install themselves,but I was informed by the owner of the game store they dropped them off at for repair that they got them off some ebay seller,Neotropolis maybe???? completely built,so that makes me wonder.I dont know much more then that,I only did the needed fix to get them going again.I dont like consolized 1-slots really.

I can deal with people doing them to 2-slots and so on,cause basically they look like  a bootleg Russian game console anyway after a coat of paint,but I hate seeing 1-slots liek the mv-1c so drastically changed that it no longer is itself.I own one and I have no plans to mod it,or my Mv-1f.I use superguns to play them,and Im happy doing that.I would liek to know if soemone sells a toslink digital audio kit that could be used in a supergun...

My sister wanted me to build her a supergun,the weakest shoddy/cheapest I could,for her retard kids, and she found this encoder on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6252905271&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1
I picked one up to use in hers,because she wants the cheapest.If she can save 10 bucks,she will,tahts how she is.To me this encoder looks like the Freds or Dollar General generic of jrok.If nothing else I will get to see what chips this guy is using.I cant tell from the pic,but it looks like s-video and composite is soldered into the caps area,which is stupid in my opinion.
I ownt kno wuntill its inhand,and as of yet the guy has not even wrote me to confirm its shipped,making me wonder.....

[D-Lite]

Yea I agree,the CX is a better chip.I have had no problems with crazearcade,nor were they rude ever,but they just feel like when I go shop at a store that has self checkout.They just feel automated.
Neobitz wise Im told the guys very friendly,and he replied to a couple emails a while back fast,but quality wise Im so so on it.I have repaired two of them on Neo MVS MV-1c decks consolized. I dont kno wwhat the deal was but the AD chip would not work because it was not soldered down all the way tightly.After redoing it they worked fine.

I knew he sold kits that did not include the AD chip,so i was thinking the guys I did the fix for just did a shody install themselves,but I was informed by the owner of the game store they dropped them off at for repair that they got them off some ebay seller,Neotropolis maybe???? completely built,so that makes me wonder.I dont know much more then that,I only did the needed fix to get them going again.I dont like consolized 1-slots really.

I can deal with people doing them to 2-slots and so on,cause basically they look like  a bootleg Russian game console anyway after a coat of paint,but I hate seeing 1-slots liek the mv-1c so drastically changed that it no longer is itself.I own one and I have no plans to mod it,or my Mv-1f.I use superguns to play them,and Im happy doing that.I would liek to know if soemone sells a toslink digital audio kit that could be used in a supergun...

My sister wanted me to build her a supergun,the weakest shoddy/cheapest I could,for her retard kids, and she found this encoder on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6252905271&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1
I picked one up to use in hers,because she wants the cheapest.If she can save 10 bucks,she will,tahts how she is.To me this encoder looks like the Freds or Dollar General generic of jrok.If nothing else I will get to see what chips this guy is using.I cant tell from the pic,but it looks like s-video and composite is soldered into the caps area,which is stupid in my opinion.
I ownt kno wuntill its inhand,and as of yet the guy has not even wrote me to confirm its shipped,making me wonder.....

Funny thing is that $50 is not much cheaper than a JROK when buying 10 at a time.  And it is the same as far as I can see from here, but in fact it seems he used a CXA1645 instead of a CXA2075 like the JROK has.  

I've offered to some people my encoder that I make for the Duo stuff for $55 shipped.  It's very similar to the JROK but is made exactly the way shown in the datasheets for those chips.  If you look at the JROK circuit, it is similar, but missing a few parts from the datasheet.  Those parts make the difference between the function with a Duo and a supergun.

What I'm saying is that encoder you see may be made like a JROK, but may not be completely compatible with the supergun you're trying to make.

[D-Lite]

Oh, and Neotropolis is Kenny/Kpj at NG.com.  If the consolized board is without component, chances are he used an R2N.  I don't know how much he's used the NeoBitz or if he would've installed the AD725 himself on that.  Of the 30 NeoBitz encoders I've used, only one was loose at all (all fully assembled by Jeff Kurtz).

[PCEngineHell]

"because she wants the cheapest. If she can save 10 bucks,she will,thats how she is. To me this encoder looks like the Freds or Dollar General generic of jrok"
She wanted cheap,she will get what she paid for. She is the one who pointed the encoder out to me. To me the encoder looks like shit,but its what she wanted. I wont be using it for me or anyone carring about quality,so its on her and her kids. There is no "trying" to make one,its already done,waiting on the encoder to arrive. If it doesnt arrive by Saturday since this guy has not replied back to any messages I will file with paypal and force her to cough up the extra amount for a jrok.
Even sellers with 100 percent feedback can be flakes.

I dont order 10 of anything at a time,because I dont have enough time in a month to put 10 jroks to use. I have to travel alot back and forth from here and Texas. I basically will build a supergun here or there for people when I am off work. Whats funny is the amount of people I have built them for that actually just want rgb output for C64/Amiga monitors.
I have done more sg kits for that then for ntsc tvs.

The encoders were neobitz in the consolized Mv-1c decks,not a R2N. Its pretty hard to confuse the 2 of those. Yea it was running component out too,but I only tested the s-video side of things. The store did not have any component ready tvs.

As I said,I dont know who did the consolization,not my concern,I was just paid to fix the problems with the 2 of them. The stereo mods on them were kinda messy too,but they worked fine at least.
I knew Neotropolis sold them  on ebay,but I was under the impression he used jroks untill I saw his newest auctions,as he is offering component out,unless he is using jroks with that feature now. I know you do them too,but no matter what I may think of you Dean,I know you wouldnt send someone something completely non-working like that. Plus the power supplies were not the same as the ones you tend to use. They were not Jameco psu.

Yea I knew its Kpj also. To set the record straight,I dont like consolizing 1-slots and other jamma systems. Thats my stance on them. 1-slots are becoming fewer by the numbers each month unaltered,because now everyone and their brother wants one done. Its not my right to tell people what to do with their mvs,but I hate seeing it done eitherway it goes. The only ones I dont mind are the 1-2 slots in custom casings,with jamma harness used instead of direct soldering. To me its like,once those holes are drilled on the plastic cart bays,that is that,no going back.

[PCEngineHell]

What I'm saying is that encoder you see may be made like a JROK, but may not be completely compatible with the supergun you're trying to make.

The guy is using them in his superguns on ebay. Im sure it works ok,prob not perfect,but no encoder ever is jamma wise.

[cavein2000]

Well, I found a copy of time killers for Genesis for now.  Hopefully this will settle the itch, or ruin the game entirely for me.  To my surprise, this game was actually quite difficult to get a hold of.

[PCEngineHell]

I told you the genesis port was kinda rare in the other thread,did you not believe me???
The game was released in small numbers. Its a good port. You have to realize,the arcade game was in Incredible Technologies line up of 32-bit games they did. The graphics chip was custom made,the audio chip was 32-bit,the cpu was a higher end 68000.The only way you would have got a even close to perfect port on any system at that time would have been on 3DO or 32X.
Alot of people tend to write the game off because of the cartoon like graphics,as its very american. They end up just saying it looks like crap, not bothering to look at the actual sprite detail, the fact it was all high res,colors being better then anything else out there,ect....
People assumed it was a MK clone,when infact it was not. Time Killers was made right before MK was released,and has more play depth then MK 1 had. Way more moves,and actual combos and juggles.For about every 10 people who hate or trash Time Killers,there will be 4-5 out there that love it.
Just tends to be that the people who hate it were the same SF junkies who bought every issue of game pro that had a crappy street fighter poster and combo list,and every snes and genesis release of the game to debate which version was the purest.
Another good arcade game that was overlooked was Survival Arts. Its graphics rival Way of the Warrior for 3DO,and it played like Street Fighter 2. You could obtain weapons during the match,like swords,guns,maces,ect..
Depending on what move you used for the final hit in last round,you got a very gory fatality. I own a arcade board of this game too. Mame runs it,its maker was Sammy.

[GUTS]

Time Killers is second only to Pit Fighter in shitty Genesis fighting games, hope you didn't pay too much for it!  I bought one years ago just for the novelty of it.  If you want a good weapon based fighter, get Weaponlord, that game was really good for it's time and is still one of the hardest fighting games to master because of its unique counter system.

The one thing that I always REALLY hated about Time Killers was that you could kill your opponent in each round.  That was fucking stupid as hell, even Mortal Kombat only let you kill your opponent once you'd beaten him twice.  I remember playing Time Killers as a kid and thinking how stupid it was that I had just cut my opponent's head off, yet here he was back again for round 2.

[PCEngineHell]

To each their own.I like killing someone every round,at any possible moment,and you def missed the story,Death brings them back each round to fight again,thats the deal,story wise.Notice how each round they drop out of a portal?
The idea of killing some one at any moment was very realistic,and I doubt you bitch when you get fragged on Quake 3 or RTCW and come right back do you?

[PCEngineHell]

About the portal thing every round,that may have been cut from the genesis port.I cant remember.

[OldRover]

You could also kill your opponent every round in Darkstalkers.

[PCEngineHell]

Yea I remember Bishamon being able to hack the others in half for the final blow in a round.If there was other things you could do I prob did  not do them.I mostly used Morigan and Bulleta a.k.a Baby Bonnie Hood.

[PCEngineHell]

Lets not forget Blood Storm.

[cavein2000]

Michael- Can you explain a bit about Bloodstorm?  I think you mentioned in a recent thread that it was the follow-up to Time Killers.  Is this game available for any console?  Is it any good (relative to time killers)?

[PCEngineHell]

Blood Storm was the second fighting game by Strata,not really part 2, its considered by many to be so because the violent game play style carried over. You can do arm and head decaps, as well as cut off the characters legs.Each character had a special move weapon that could be passed onto the winner allowing customization.

There are alot of secrets in the game. Sadly it was being programmed for the PSX, there was playable copies being tossed around at EGM where it was being previewed and, for once, praised,but none the less was canceled.
Incredible Technologies I think just felt it best to stick to the arcade side of gaming. I think for the most part Bloodstorm ended up being Stratas last fighter as a group effort.

Some of the Strata people worked on Street Fighter the Movie game,the arcade version,not the crap home port. You can see their humor passed onto it because of the crowd blowing up and ect... There was a good amount of blood,and the game had darker imagery then the home system version which played like a clone of SSF2Turbo.

In SF Movie arcade there was a really great combo system. You should run it and Blood Storm on mame, give them a try. Either that or spend cash on supergun and buy them.

[CrackTiger]

Lets not forget Blood Storm.

Better yet, tell your folks to buy you Bonestorm or go to hell!

[PCEngineHell]

Marge: I'm sorry, honey, but those games cost up to and including $70. And they're violent, and they distract you from your schoolwork.
Bart: Those are all good points, but the problem is they don't result in me getting the game.
Homer: I know how you feel, Bart. When I was your age, I wanted an electric football game more than anything in the world. And my parents bought it for me, and it was the happiest day of my life.

[PCEngineHell]

That was one of the funniest eps to me ever.
Thanks for reminding me of that one CrackTiger!!!

[CrackTiger]

http://bonestorm.ytmnd.com/

[Dark Fact]

D-Lite, Michael, aren't you two supposed to be...y'know...killing each other?

[rolins]

D-Lite, Michael, aren't you two supposed to be...y'know...killing each other?

Shouldn't add gasoline to put out a fire, Dark. Let's keep this forum flame free.

[PCEngineHell]

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=12619.0

[PCEngineHell]

I admit,Im really bored tonite......

[D-Lite]

That's great.

I've never met someone with so much hate.

[Dark Fact]

Ill bring the cigs and matches,who will bring the gas? Dean can join the fire wood. We can have a get together. I can sit and smoke,and after hes put out,he will just smoke.

And I'll bring the marshmallows!

[PCEngineHell]

Hell yea, why starve when you can eat and hang out by a nice bon fire ? Bring 'em!

[Dark Fact]

But who's going to bring the weenies?  

[PCEngineHell]

Dean will.

[Keranu]

YES!~ SPAM THREAD!

PA-PA-PAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRTTTYYYYYYYY!

[TR0N]

YES!~ SPAM THREAD!

PA-PA-PAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRTTTYYYYYYYY!

Naw you mean like this

[cavein2000]

What happened to my beautiful thread about superguns and Time Killers?  By the way, got my copy of Time Killers for Genesis... good times!!  Now.. play nice guys.

[Keranu]

Naw you mean like this

Dude, I'm a stockboy at a small town grocery store and as an experienced worker, I can tell you that stocking Spam cans is very comfortable ;) . They don't cheap out on the design like some canned vegetable companies do because you can stock them on top of each other real nicely and won't cause you to end up throwing the cans down on the floor in frustration.

[TR0N]

Naw you mean like this

Dude, I'm a stockboy at a small town grocery store and as an experienced worker, I can tell you that stocking Spam cans is very comfortable ;) . They don't cheap out on the design like some canned vegetable companies do because you can stock them on top of each other real nicely and won't cause you to end up throwing the cans down on the floor in frustration.

I see hehe still to quote monthy python i don't like spam

[Dark Fact]

What happened to my beautiful thread about superguns and Time Killers? By the way, got my copy of Time Killers for Genesis... good times!! Now.. play nice guys.

Your beautiful thread is in a better place, cavein.  Actually, it's in the same place...but it's now turned into a Deanie roast!

And Keranu will bring the SPAM.  

[Keranu]

Oh no, I'm not bringing any spam. True I enjoy stocking it, but I won't eat the stuff! Plus it has pork in it.

[Dark Fact]

Canned pork? Is there no God!!??

So I guess you'll bring the beer?

[PCEngineHell]

Hes under age,
so no beer.
But hey,he can bring his 3DO!!!
Nothing burns as good as a lump of Panasonic!
BTW K3ranu,check yahoo messenger,your freeDO games are on the way.
Spam is crap,god man,I still love the line about it in Dawn of the Dead though.

[Keranu]

Haha, freeDO.

[OldRover]

What's wrong with pork?!