Game Sack covers the PC-FX

[Groover]

I thought some of you owners could chime in on how they covered this system.

The PC-FX - Game Sack

[EvilEvoIX]

WOW NONE OF US HAVE SEEN THIS BEFORE!!!  THIS IS A PLEASANT SURPRISE AND NOW THIS SITE IS INFORMED MORE WITH THE KNOWLEDGE OF THIS!!!  THERE ISN'T ANY THREADS DEDICATED TO THIS CHANNEL AT ALL AND THIS WILL NOW BE THE NEW THREAD DEDICATED TO THIS TYPE OF VIDEO!!!!  WOW WHAT A FIND, ALL OF US SUCK AT THE INTERNET BUT YOU!!  I MEAN THE VIDEO IS ONLY 9 DAYS OLD AND IS REFERENCED TO A NEC GAMING DEVICE SO THERE IS ZERO CHANCE ANYONE OF US HAS SEEN THIS OR WOULD EVEN KNOW HOW TO SEE THIS!!  I MEAN IT ISN'T LIKE THE MAKER OF THIS VIDEO IS ON THIS SITE SO HOW WOULD WE KNOW!!!  WOW WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUTUBE!!!!  DO THEY HAVE ANY MORE VIDEOS ON THERE!!!  wowowowowoOWOWOWOWOWOW!

[sirhcman]

I thought some of you owners could chime in on how they covered this system.

Hey Groover, there is some discussion on the console and episode here:

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=10120.2070

[Filler]

I thought they did a good job of not just covering the standard games, though they could have gone further. I was disappointed that they weren't wooed by WtPC's charms despite having seemingly played through a whole route, but there's no accounting for taste.

I was also a little annoyed how despite some good words and admitting that the language barrier was a major issue, they still seemed a bit dismissive of the system at the end. They came right out and said that they'd probably enjoy some of the games if they were in English. It's not like it's the games' fault that you don't understand the language they were made in. It's a Japanese console released in Japan after all.

In the end, I think the commenters are harder on it (and on Dave and Joe) than anything. I think Game Sack had good intentions and at least focused mostly on what they liked about the games.

[esteban]

I thought they did a good job of not just covering the standard games, though they could have gone further. I was disappointed that they weren't wooed by WtPC's charms despite having seemingly played through a whole route, but there's no accounting for taste.

I was also a little annoyed how despite some good words and admitting that the language barrier was a major issue, they still seemed a bit dismissive of the system at the end. They came right out and said that they'd probably enjoy some of the games if they were in English. It's not like it's the games' fault that you don't understand the language they were made in. It's a Japanese console released in Japan after all.

In the end, I think the commenters are harder on it (and on Dave and Joe) than anything. I think Game Sack had good intentions and at least focused mostly on what they liked about the games.

Yes, I agree.

We still need. ANOTHER PC-FX video to be made, but this time hosted by folks who have ***more intimate knowledge*** of the games/software.

Personally, I don't have the expertise, and it might require several contributors, but the PC-FX will only be appreciated when deeper, more sophisticated reviews are shared by folks who  ***know the games*** ...

This is not to say that Game Sack did not provide an important service—it did. It was the "outsider, newbie" first-experience with PC-FX.  This is what most folks will experience. It is honest about the language barrier and lack of support available (FAQ, guides, etc.)

But, as I said, we still need a second video, one that can speak to the little charms of the PC-FX.

We don't need a "to buy or not to buy" video, we need a "what is the typical dumbass not going to understand" video...

[BigusSchmuck]

It would have been a different story if they knew Japanese...

[PunkCryborg]

WOW NONE OF US HAVE SEEN THIS BEFORE!!!  THIS IS A PLEASANT SURPRISE AND NOW THIS SITE IS INFORMED MORE WITH THE KNOWLEDGE OF THIS!!!  THERE ISN'T ANY THREADS DEDICATED TO THIS CHANNEL AT ALL AND THIS WILL NOW BE THE NEW THREAD DEDICATED TO THIS TYPE OF VIDEO!!!!  WOW WHAT A FIND, ALL OF US SUCK AT THE INTERNET BUT YOU!!  I MEAN THE VIDEO IS ONLY 9 DAYS OLD AND IS REFERENCED TO A NEC GAMING DEVICE SO THERE IS ZERO CHANCE ANYONE OF US HAS SEEN THIS OR WOULD EVEN KNOW HOW TO SEE THIS!!  I MEAN IT ISN'T LIKE THE MAKER OF THIS VIDEO IS ON THIS SITE SO HOW WOULD WE KNOW!!!  WOW WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUTUBE!!!!  DO THEY HAVE ANY MORE VIDEOS ON THERE!!!  wowowowowoOWOWOWOWOWOW!

Well this is PCFX and this deserves its own thread. Do you even own a PCFX? Why are you posting in here? Why are you even in this forum?

[NecroPhile]

While it's duplicate content, it's still 5x more interesting and useful than anything evo has ever posted.  He's just jealous.... and a trolling scumbag.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Maybe I will make  PC-FX video.    I basically had myself intimately inserted into the BMP slot for a year straight.

lol 

It's a niche system for either A) People who can read noodlecart moonrunes,or at least fumble their way through or B) People who click around a lot, hoping for tits

[NecroPhile]

It's for people that like more than just Dracula X and shewties on the PCE. 

[Arkhan Asylum]

The PC-fX might as well have been called "Thing Arkhan always wanted", because I basically sit and play hentai titty clicky FMV/Digital comic games most of the time, or RPGs.

lol, all of my sex education came from Jast.   Thanks, Jast. 

[Joe Redifer]

noodlecart moonrunes

LOL!

[elmer]

This is not to say that Game Sack did not provide an important service—it did. It was the "outsider, newbie" first-experience with PC-FX.  This is what most folks will experience. It is honest about the language barrier and lack of support available (FAQ, guides, etc.)

But, as I said, we still need a second video, one that can speak to the little charms of the PC-FX.

We don't need a "to buy or not to buy" video, we need a "what is the typical dumbass not going to understand" video...

I'd really like to see that video!

As a newbie here that's not a long-time PC-FX fan ... and also now as new PC-FX owner ... that doesn't speak Japanese ... I've got to say that Game Sack pretty much nailed my feelings on the existing software library.

They did go on way too long about the language barrier ... but I loved the bit at the end about giving up instead of sitting through another long-winded FMV cutscene.

It's for people that like more than just Dracula X and shewties on the PCE. 

But can't the same be said about the PlayStation and the Saturn? What are the games that you find uniquely fun on the PC-FX ... and what is it about them that appeals to you?

I'd love to hear that side of the story.

[Arkhan Asylum]

But can't the same be said about the PlayStation and the Saturn? What are the games that you find uniquely fun on the PC-FX ... and what is it about them that appeals to you?

I'd love to hear that side of the story.

I can answer this well, having spent most of my teenage years playing digital comics, and being an anime fan.

PC-FX is essentially an otaku's wet dream.    You've got games like Sparkling Feather that play to all of your anime triggers, and wrap it up in a nice SRPG.

It's got all of the digital comics / sim games, too.    It's just all very anime-centric.   This is what sets it apart from PS1 and Saturn, really.   Team Innocent is an excellent adventure game. 

Pretty much every game is an anime with gameplay elements.   It's a fun feeling to be able to essentially interact with a cartoon full of characters you like.  You get animated character portraits, voices, cutscenes... the works.    It's definitely unique.   

The closest you get to this on PS1 and Saturn, are the RPGs and such with anime designs (Lunar), and all of the digital comics that appear there also. 

PC-FX just basically does that for ALL of the games, and is bleeding with unique digital comic/rpg experiences.   That's practically all it does outside of Zenki/Chipchan/Zeroigar.   

You don't have your Oddworld, Jumping Flash, or Crash Bandicoot stuff.    You just have anime.   Everywhere, and you get the added charm of the familiar, warm, PCE style chiptunes. 

Unfortunately, if you can't understand what the hell you're reading, nearly every game loses it's charm.   An RPG is pretty worthless if you don't even know what the story is.   It might be fun to play through from a mechanical standpoint, but you lose out on the story.    You're not getting to experience the games for what they actually are. 

This might be part of why the machine didn't do well?    That or the lack of the 3D hardware capabilities that you can get with the FXGA.


With PS1/Saturn, the variety helps push it along if you're not into RPG/Digital Comics.    People rave about the PS1/Saturn imports because they're importing shooters.   You don't need to read.  You just blow shit up.   They dog on the PC-FX because they can't read.   That's not the game's faults.

Notice how the only expensive PCFX games are the ones round eye can play?   

If PC-FX had gotten a bit more variety to the library, I think it would have kicked some severe ass.

[SamIAm]

To me, the sad reality of the PC-FX is that even though its library is highly focused on a few particular styles of game, it still received neither remarkable quantity nor quality in these styles.

If you want to talk quantity, the Saturn and PSX absolutely bury it. It's not quite as bad if you're looking at 1995 and 1996 only, but if you take the entire system libraries, you're probably looking at something on the order of several times as many games in the digital comic/comic hybrid genres alone.

When it comes to quality, individual taste is going to come into play. But seriously, where is Sakura Taisen on the PC-FX? Where is Policenaughts? Or even Dinosaur Island? To me, besides reeking "low budget", most of the anime-game stuff on the PC-FX doesn't have the shine of the best stuff on other systems. There is no AAA PC-FX game in any genre. Several games have some real charm, and some unique ideas from time to time as well. Yet there was never a moment in the system's life when it got something really worth talking about. Team Innocent is the only one that comes close, and even that one doesn't hold up well if you take out the historical context.

Here's (an unsourced) list of the top ten selling PC-FX games and the number of games sold. Top selling games don't tell the whole story, but that list indicates a pretty unimpressive legacy. The number one game is a straight port of a PC game with voices added to it.

If someone ever does make a more extensive introduction to the best of the PC-FX, they're going to have to zero in more closely than just a general glossing of individual games. It's going to require digging deep and separating the good ideas from all the other mediocrity. You're going to have to really explain the wacky humor of Megami Tengoku II, or the quality anime of Zeroigar, or the serious story of Nirgends, or even the ambition of Team Innocent. That kind of thing.

[Filler]

PC-FX is essentially an otaku's wet dream...Pretty much every game is an anime with gameplay elements.

If someone ever does make a more extensive introduction to the best of the PC-FX, they're going to have to zero in more closely than just a general glossing of individual games. It's going to require digging deep and separating the good ideas from all the other mediocrity.

You guys both have great points. Makes me want to do more PC-FC vids. I'd love to see your vid Arkham.

I recorded an "interview" with my friend who imported a PC-FX back in the day, but the file didn't save. Essentially he got the system because of anime. It was anime, and we were eating up anything about it at the time. I'm having dinner with him tonight and I'm going to try re-recording it.

As for SamIAm's point, I think there are a couple things.

Some of the games do have these unique elements. I was genuinely surprised in First Kiss story when Minami brow-beat me for not listening to her karaoke because I clicked through to advanced the dialog. That it includes a mini 2D fighting game with a character from Blue Breaker is also noteworthy.

The way Rolfee's scenes are genuinely random, as in you can't save-scum because you won't get the same scenes next time you load your save is fairly unique. Just the fact that your main goal in Blue Breaker is to meet a girl and treat her nicely while fighting through dungeons just doesn't have an analog on other systems. (Well except where those same games were released on other systems since the FX didn't do so hot)

I think there is value in pointing these things out. I'm sure there are additional examples in games I haven't played.

However, there's also the issue of why certain people enjoy games/stories. I never got why folks hate on K-ON! until I saw a comment like, "It's not supposed to be about a band, it's about the girls in the band." I've always been fine with that because I value characters so strongly. Some people just want to see them get somewhere with the band.

Many people like Ghost in the Shell SAC because it's plot heavy. It barely kept my interest except for the couple episodes that were character centric. I want to know how the things happening matter to the characters. That's the part that interests me.

I can't help but think, no matter how much I explain why the characters in Minimum Nanonic are fun, some people just aren't going to get it. They don't even like stories like that, even if they can read them. I think that was Game Sack's issue with WtPC. Also they probably didn't want to come across as shallow. Quite the opposite, I find the stories in WtPC to be heartwarming and genuine (at least the feelings of the author). Some people just don't care about that.

[NecroPhile]

But can't the same be said about the PlayStation and the Saturn?

I wasn't talking about comparisons to other systems.  I meant that language barriers in most PC-FX games are no greater than those in PCE games; if anything they're less of a hindrance on PC-FX, as it's easier to follow the story in fmv than in the mostly static cut scenes found in many PCE games.

In other words, if a person enjoys the rpgs, digi-comics, and sim games on PCE, then they should enjoy the PC-FX ones too.

What are the games that you find uniquely fun on the PC-FX ... and what is it about them that appeals to you?

Are any games really unique?  The most unique games are the fmv fighting ones, but I can't say any of 'em are all that great.

I could care less if there's a similar game or a better port of a game, though.  Either it's fun or it isn't.

[elmer]

I can answer this well, having spent most of my teenage years playing digital comics, and being an anime fan.

PC-FX is essentially an otaku's wet dream.    You've got games like Sparkling Feather that play to all of your anime triggers, and wrap it up in a nice SRPG.

It's got all of the digital comics / sim games, too.    It's just all very anime-centric.   This is what sets it apart from PS1 and Saturn, really.   Team Innocent is an excellent adventure game.

OK, I get your particular love for the machine ... and one of the things that it's games are doing better for you than the other 5th-gen machines (at least in their early-years).

I grew up watching things like Marine Boy (

and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Boy) and even today, if someone announced a video game based on that series, then I'd probably have same kind of warm-and-fuzzies that you have.

I guess that since I don't normally associate games with manga/anime ... I just don't get that same feeling for the quality of the anime that I'm seeing on the PC-FX.

When I see unfamiliar anime these days, I'm looking for something of the quality of the original Ghost In the Shell ... or anything Miyazaki ... or Cowboy Bebop. That's a somewhat unrealistic expectation for a 1990's console ... but it's an example of the frame-of-reference of someone looking at the machine as a newbie.

Unfortunately, if you can't understand what the hell you're reading, nearly every game loses it's charm.   An RPG is pretty worthless if you don't even know what the story is.

I totally agree ... both the characters and the story are vitally important.

Seeing SamIAm's dubbed version of the Zeroigar video has made all the difference in my enjoyment of that game.

If PC-FX had gotten a bit more variety to the library, I think it would have kicked some severe ass.

It's a lovely piece of hardware ... I can see Hudson's unique touch in its elegent and powerful design.

It should be able to do wonderful versions of a lot of 90's era games ... as long they don't need scaled sprites or 3D (which weren't actually needed to make a lot of good games ... but were kind of expected by the buying public, and so put in even when they didn't improve gameplay).

To me, the sad reality of the PC-FX is that even though its library is highly focused on a few particular styles of game, it still received neither remarkable quantity nor quality in these styles.

That's what I'm seeing when I load up a PC-FX game (not understanding the language) ... and AFAIK, that just the business reality of being the 3rd-place console right-out-of-the-starting-gate.

From what I've heard, Japan has an "winner-takes-all" culture that's far more pronounced than in the US. Consumers want to be on the winning side ... there's little love for 2nd-place, and none at all for 3rd-place.

If there aren't many potential customers for a game ... then a business can't afford to spend the money in creating a really good game.

The sales figures that you posted are scary!

Many people like Ghost in the Shell SAC because it's plot heavy. It barely kept my interest except for the couple episodes that were character centric. I want to know how the things happening matter to the characters. That's the part that interests me.

I totally agree, which is why I'd like to see translations for Zeroigar and Team Innocent and Zenki ... to see if I'm missing an interesting character-driven storyline.

I wasn't talking about comparisons to other systems.  I meant that language barriers in most PC-FX games are no greater than those in PCE games; if anything they're less of a hindrance on PC-FX, as it's easier to follow the story in fmv than in the mostly static cut scenes found in many PCE games.

In other words, if a person enjoys the rpgs, digi-comics, and sim games on PCE, then they should enjoy the PC-FX ones too.

I agree with the logic of that, but I guess that my point is, for most of the game players out there when the PC-FX came out ... or even now ... why should they choose to spend their money on a PC-FX instead of the PlayStation or Saturn?

Arkhan's love of the PC-FX's anime is the best reason that I've heard so far for someone choosing to get a PC-FX.

The original PCE made total sense ... it was unique at the time. Way more powerful than the original NES, and then the first system with CD games ... allowing for larger story-driven games with great soundtracks. It pioneered CD gaming in the console space.

[Arkhan Asylum]

The PC-FX could have had more arcade style games, easily. 

It also doesn't have the western world's sometimes completely retarded game ideas clouding things up.   

To me it just does what it does really well, and even the games that are pretty low quality, are at least fun.

Ruruli Ra Rura, for example.  It's stupid.  It's got horrible pre-rendered 3D nonsense.   The art is that weird mid 90s  shareware looking crap.   It's uglier than PCE games.

but, the character interactions/scenes make up for all of this and it ends up being playable.   If the FMV scenes didn't exist and it was just a cartridge based game on say, PCE or Megadrive, it would be pretty much ignored forever.

It is definitely not the system to own if you aren't into cutesy anime shenanigans.   There's practically nothing for you to enjoy.

Had they done more Zeroigar/Zenki/Chipchan style games, this could be different.   It's not though.   

also imagine if that Star Soldier demo was a real thing.

The hardware is completely capable, but suffers Japanese Sega CD-itis.

They cashed in too hard on the FMV aspect.  Much like Sega CD did in the US with all those retarded FMV games like Ground Zero Texas, and Double Switch. 


I think they were hoping it was a new, cutting edge thing that would take off, but it didn't.    Most people want actiony-shooty stuff.


They don't want to play a Cutie Honey, Yuna or Can Can Bunny game. 


I on the other hand, could sit and play digital comics for weeks on end.    In fact, I did that quite often growing up.

I'd switch off between Might and Magic/Ultima games, and all the awesome booby comics from Jast/etc.

boobs/lol sex aside, Dividead and Three Sister's Story were pretty fun.    and True Love95!

Man, that would've been fun on PC-FX.

[SuperDeadite]

I'm still amazed the PC-FX didn't get any ports of the old LaserDisc games.  (Well ok, it got Blue Chicago Blues, but that doesn't count)  It has the perfect hardware for it, a high-quality port of TimeGal at launch would have really sold systems, but nope.

[Joe Redifer]

Holy shit! Time Gal and the PC-FX were made for each other! I can't believe this never happened. God damn did they miss the boat on that or what?

[esteban]

Holy shit! Time Gal and the PC-FX were made for each other! I can't believe this never happened. God damn did they miss the boat on that or what?

I have played a prototype of Sherlock Holmes: Consulting Detective FX.

[Joe Redifer]

That wouldn't have worked. Unless it was anime Sherlock Holmes.

[esteban]

That wouldn't have worked. Unless it was anime Sherlock Holmes.

It was actually a rotoscoped version of the original FMV footage. Very stylized, actually, and looked so much better than the original footage.

[Joe Redifer]

Well it couldn't have looked worse!

[Psycho Punch]

Stop hating the PC-FX.

ps: the 3D, non-pcfx games of the time were retarded and gay specially western ones

[Joe Redifer]

I especially hate all of the US-made PC-FX games by Sierra.

[Filler]

I especially hate all of the US-made PC-FX games by Sierra.

I just realized you're Joe from GameSack. Hi!

[Arkhan Asylum]

Stop hating the PC-FX.

ps: the 3D, non-pcfx games of the time were retarded and gay specially western ones

What's wrong with Return to Zork?


I can't tell if Joe is joking or not.   I didn't think there was a Sierra PC-FX game.   Zork isn't, and neither is Blue Chicago Blues.   

I could be mistaken.

[Psycho Punch]

I especially hate all of the US-made PC-FX games by Sierra.

Same.

[esteban]

Stop hating the PC-FX.

ps: the 3D, non-pcfx games of the time were retarded and gay specially western ones

What's wrong with Return to Zork?


I can't tell if Joe is joking or not.   I didn't think there was a Sierra PC-FX game.   Zork isn't, and neither is Blue Chicago Blues.   

I could be mistaken.

I have a tough time telling when Joe is joking or not. However, I find it best to assume he is being sarcastic. Then, you can be pleasantly surprised (either way) when he clarifies his position.

TANGENT: I have been really curious about PC-FX baseball, personally. I regret not finding the game and playing it when I had a PC-FX (I was actually borrowing it with option to keep it...so I was reluctant to buy many games...)

[Arkhan Asylum]

You fucked up by not playing PowerLeague FX.   I hate baseball, but I like that game.

[Joe Redifer]

I actually wanted to play that one but couldn't get a good rip. We tried.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I actually wanted to play that one but couldn't get a good rip. We tried.

COULD HAVE BORROWED MY REAL COPY.

JUST SAYIN.

[Joe Redifer]

What's done is done.

[sirhcman]

What's done is done.

PC-FX Re-visited episode?

[Joe Redifer]

That'd be a very short episode. I don't think the console is worth another look, at least not from us. Like has been discussed someone can make a more in-depth video if they like. Likely such a video would be multiple parts and based on a single game at a time.

[sirhcman]

That'd be a very short episode. I don't think the console is worth another look, at least not from us. Like has been discussed someone can make a more in-depth video if they like. Likely such a video would be multiple parts and based on a single game at a time.

What about an episode entitled "Games that Game Sack Forgot" ...  Could cover multiple systems, anyway just an idea