CD to Super CD remakes

exodus · 07/18/2016, 07:21 PM

I couldn't find a thread about this, apologies if there is one.

I recently got Record of Lodoss War, and Record of Lodoss War II. I tried the first one out for an hour or so, decided it was a bit overly traditional, and went to put II in, to test that out. I grab the disc, put it in the console, and it's the same game. Same intro, loads my save, and all that.

At first I am baffled - the disc clearly says Super CD and has different art from the first one I put in.

Then I realize Record of Lodoss War II has two discs - the second disc is the actual Lodoss II - the first disc is Record of Lodoss War I, Super CD version.

Are there many instances of SCD remakes of CD games? What's different? Access to more RAM meaning faster loading, or what?

I know there were SCD/ACD dual-compatible games, and SGX/PCE dual compatible games - were there CD/SCD hybrids? And indeed, were there any other CD games that got an SCD "remake"/reprint? I'd be really curious to see if this game is actually different, or whether they simply slapped the SCD icon on it.

CrackTiger · 07/18/2016, 07:40 PM

You made me realize that I have 2 copies of ROLII.

But neither have a Lodoss I disc. Does the Lodoss I disc look different from the CD2 original?

Tengai Makyou/Far East Of Eden Ziria got a Super CD version.

EDIT: none of the copies on eBay seem to have a second disc, so your would have to be pretty special.

SignOfZeta · 07/18/2016, 07:52 PM

Ziria was the only one I knew of before now...I think.

exodus · 07/18/2016, 08:41 PM

Hmm, now that you mention it, when I look around I can't find anyone else having this disc cover. What the heck! Only other thing I can find is this, but that's not it. http://www.ebay.ca/itm/RECORD-OF-LODOSS-WAR-II-2-Senki-Trial-Version-PC-Engine-SCD-Grafx-JAPAN-Game-pe-/301509618616

Here are some pictures for reference.

Lodoss 1 (CD) in its normal box, and Lodoss 1 (SCD, below) in the Lodoss 2 box.

Lodoss 2 disc in the back tray.

As you can see, the cover's no different from normal. I bought this off BigAl, so maybe he's got more insight?? It came without the obi, which is where I'd expect any information about a bonus disc to be.

CrackTiger · 07/18/2016, 09:16 PM

That is very cool. I'm going to try to track down a copy and compare them.

exodus · 07/18/2016, 09:30 PM

If you can't find it I'll burn you a disc, just let me know.

SignOfZeta · 07/19/2016, 12:16 AM

How the fuck is this news? That is, how can we not know about this already? Or, OK, me, how could I not know about this already?

SignOfZeta · 07/19/2016, 12:27 AM

Do we know that this wasn't a separate promo that someone put in the case? I sorta think it was something like that. That catalog is listed by itself as a Taikenban ver of the game.

exodus · 07/19/2016, 12:56 AM

yeah, I'm surprised we don't know about this either!
I linked the taikenban version of II earlier, that ebay auction: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/RECORD-OF-LODOSS-WAR-II-2-Senki-Trial-Version-PC-Engine-SCD-Grafx-JAPAN-Game-pe-/301509618616

I can't find any images of a taikenban for 1 - though I can find an image for it here: http://redump.org/discs/system/pce/status/5/

I searched in japanese as well, and didn't find much.

closest thing I've found is this picture, which has record of lodoss war 1 with a 2nd disc in there http://auctions.c.yimg.jp/images.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/image/ra218/users/0/0/1/7/chr0me_idea-img600x450-14463666135urbju15845.jpg

but I haven't found anyone else showing two discs for this game.

Also worth noting that the SCD lodoss is HCD 4072 - lodoss 2 is HCD 4066
CD lodoss is HCD 2029. So the last made of all these was the SCD lodoss.

Japanese Lodoss wikipedia page says the first game is "compatible with both" CD and SCD but that's not really helpful: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%AD%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E3%82%B9%E5%B3%B6%E6%88%A6%E8%A8%98#.E3.82.B3.E3.83.B3.E3.83.94.E3.83.A5.E3.83.BC.E3.82.BF.E3.82.B2.E3.83.BC.E3.83.A0

JP PC Engine game list only lists the CD lodoss, and SCD lodoss II
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC%E3%82%A8%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B8%E3%83%B3%E3%81%AE%E3%82%B2%E3%83%BC%E3%83%A0%E3%82%BF%E3%82%A4%E3%83%88%E3%83%AB%E4%B8%80%E8%A6%A7

US list of games more helpfully has the HCD numbers, but this SCD one isn't on there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PC_Engine_games

mysterious! unless there's something really obvious we're all missing!

*edit
Also! This is almost certainly not actually an SCD in spite of what it says. I tested it with a system 1.0 card and it started right up.

akamichi · 07/19/2016, 03:33 AM

The SCD labelled Lodoss I disc is from the re-release that was included with the Lodoss I Mook back in late '94. IIRC, even though the disc was labelled a Super CD game, the game was actually the same exact thing as the original release. Don't know if there were any plans to remake it specifically for SCD.

I tried to look up some pictures and http://www.suruga-ya.jp/database/pics/game/162001044.jpg is the best I could find. The Mook is from Kadokawa Shoten.

- akamichi

Nazi NecroPhile · 07/19/2016, 10:29 AM

Like Zeta guessed and akamichi confirmed, it's from the taikenban book thing. If you're looking for info about a game disc, always google the product number.

CrackTiger · 07/19/2016, 12:03 PM

My first guess was that it was something like that, but they usually print something about it on the disc. If it plays in a CD2 system, then it's likely no changes were made. We know that Ziria had some new programming done to it, because at the very least, the gane won't let you play it on a CD2 system.

exodus · 07/19/2016, 02:09 PM

Yeah, I just confirmed it works with the system 1.0 card - they just slapped the logo on there. oh well!

SignOfZeta · 07/19/2016, 05:34 PM

My guess is that NEC's style sheet encouraged use of the SCD logo just to make things *slightly* less confusing. After all, by then all the pre-3.0 stuff was years off the market and backward compatability is no problem so...just phase out the logo when you can, I guess.

Btw, is this the full version of the game? Is the ISO the same size at least as the normal version? It seems weird to reprint a game and put it in with the guidebook. How many titles saw that?

esteban · 07/19/2016, 06:02 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 07/19/2016, 05:34 PMMy guess is that NEC's style sheet encouraged use of the SCD logo just to make things *slightly* less confusing. After all, by then all the pre-3.0 stuff was years off the market and backward compatability is no problem so...just phase out the logo when you can, I guess.

Btw, is this the full version of the game? Is the ISO the same size at least as the normal version? It seems weird to reprint a game and put it in with the guidebook. How many titles saw that?

Titan
Be Ball
Blodia
Hatris

...were all reprinted and included with guidebooks.

exodus · 07/19/2016, 06:40 PM

I'll check the iso size later, but there's nothing to indicate this is shorter or in any way different. it loaded my save from the original and everything.

Psycho Punch · 07/19/2016, 08:06 PM

Hey do you have altered beast cd by any chance?

exodus · 07/19/2016, 08:32 PM

I do! with this card I can actually play it properly!

akamichi · 07/20/2016, 03:46 AM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 07/19/2016, 05:34 PMMy guess is that NEC's style sheet encouraged use of the SCD logo just to make things *slightly* less confusing. After all, by then all the pre-3.0 stuff was years off the market and backward compatability is no problem so...just phase out the logo when you can, I guess.

That makes sense to me, but it's kinda disappointing that Ziria was actually updated with SCD capabilities but this Lodoss I disc wasn't despite the branding.

QuoteBtw, is this the full version of the game? Is the ISO the same size at least as the normal version? It seems weird to reprint a game and put it in with the guidebook. How many titles saw that?

I'm only going off my memory, but... The mook cover and the disc don't mention it being a Taikenban. That's what leads me to believe it was a re-release of the full game. It doesn't make sense to release a guidebook and/or demo for a game that came out 2 years prior.

My guess is that it was re-released in order to coincide with the release of Lodoss II, which came out very soon after.

If someone could check the ISOs, please let us know. I'm out of town (yet again) and don't have access to my copies.

- akamichi

esteban · 07/20/2016, 07:46 AM

I agree with akamichi—this second printing (of a old game) was to promote the upcoming release (of a new game).

2.5 years between releases...

ADVERTISEMENT:
https://archives.tg-16.com/Dengeki_PC_Engine_1995_02.htm

I am pretty sure an identical advertisement was in the January 1995 issue, too.

If anyone wants to translate/share interesting parts of the ad, please do so!

For example, were the OVA voice actors involved in both games?

Thanks

Nazi NecroPhile · 07/20/2016, 09:59 AM

Quote from: akamichi on 07/20/2016, 03:46 AMIf someone could check the ISOs, please let us know. I'm out of town (yet again) and don't have access to my copies.

I don't own either one to confirm myself, but the TOC stuff on necstasy is identical between the two.