Emerald Dragon QQs...

SavagePencil · 08/02/2016, 10:44 AM

I received a copy of Emerald Dragon yesterday and had a couple o' questions that I was hoping I could get answered:

1. The game came in a double-disc case. I'm guessing this is one of those instances where they used the second "bay" for holding the map? I hope I'm not missing a fan art disc or anything, but pcengine.co.uk and pcedaisakusen don't indicate the #/discs, and pcecp search appears to be broken.

2. Speaking of PCEDaisakusen, they list an Emerald Dragon Taikenban (link http://www.pcedaisakusen.net/2/28/504/1/Emerald-Dragon-Taikenban-Guidebook-jp.htm), which is described as a "Magazine Insert" but also as a SCD. What is this, exactly?

Nazi NecroPhile · 08/02/2016, 11:04 AM

1. It's one disc. There's only three titles I can think of that had a second disc: Galaxy Fraulein Yuna re-release with the HuVideo disc, Princess Maker with a soundtrack mini-cd, and Urusei Yatsura with a soundtrack disc. There might be others, but it's definitely not common.

2. The taikenban is a booklet (mook) that came with a CD containing a demo for the game.

SavagePencil · 08/02/2016, 11:09 AM

Quote from: guest1. It's one disc. There's only three titles I can think of that had a second disc: Galaxy Fraulein Yuna re-release with the HuVideo disc, Princess Maker with a soundtrack mini-cd, and Urusei Yatsura with a soundtrack disc. There might be others, but it's definitely not common.

2. The taikenban is a booklet (mook) that came with a CD containing a demo for the game.

Got it. I had usually assumed mooks were strategy guides for people who already owned it. Was this one more of an advertisement for the game?

esteban · 08/02/2016, 11:33 AM

Quote from: SavagePencil on 08/02/2016, 11:09 AMGot it. I had usually assumed mooks were strategy guides for people who already owned it. Was this one more of an advertisement for the game?

Mooks served many purposes... If a game demo was included, then "promotion & marketing" of said game was certainly a major desire for the publisher.

NightWolve · 08/02/2016, 11:40 AM

As an additional FYI, this RPG will see an English patch some day courtesy of SamIam and myself. Both of us are doing other things right now (he's happily busy with Xanadu), but we'll resume eventually. I feel no rush, but the most difficult aspects have been overcome and compressed English text blocks are working 100% bug-free with a good font at present, so it's just a matter of time.

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=18358.0

Nazi NecroPhile · 08/02/2016, 11:44 AM

Hot damn that looks awesome.

xcrement5x · 08/02/2016, 01:16 PM

Woot!

esteban · 08/02/2016, 01:53 PM

PCE FAN: Utterly Fantastic!

SignOfZeta · 08/02/2016, 01:55 PM

There are tons of PCE games in double cases. No PCE game is more than one disc. Presumably this is to fit bigger manuals or whatever. I stopped thinking about it a long time ago.

seieienbu · 08/02/2016, 02:14 PM

I was wondering what had happened with that project; I'm glad to see that it's still alive if on the back burner.

BigusSchmuck · 08/02/2016, 02:58 PM

Totally forgot about this one. Looks pretty sweet!

SavagePencil · 08/02/2016, 03:26 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 08/02/2016, 01:55 PMThere are tons of PCE games in double cases. No PCE game is more than one disc. Presumably this is to fit bigger manuals or whatever. I stopped thinking about it a long time ago.

Yeah, the reason it came up was because I recently got a Psykio shmup that had a second disk just for fan art and it made me paranoid.

Quote from: NightWolve on 08/02/2016, 11:40 AMAs an additional FYI, this RPG will see an English patch some day courtesy of SamIam and myself. Both of us are doing other things right now (he's happily busy with Xanadu), but we'll resume eventually. I feel no rush, but the most difficult aspects have been overcome and compressed English text blocks are working 100% bug-free with a good font at present, so it's just a matter of time.

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=18358.0

oh shi-

EDIT: I wanted to mention that I really enjoyed your Ys IV work and am looking forward to Xanadu. I picked up Xanadu recently along with Xak III so I can do some ripping & patching.

elmer · 08/02/2016, 08:17 PM

Quote from: NightWolve on 08/02/2016, 11:40 AMAs an additional FYI, this RPG will see an English patch some day courtesy of SamIam and myself. Both of us are doing other things right now (he's happily busy with Xanadu), but we'll resume eventually. I feel no rush, but the most difficult aspects have been overcome and compressed English text blocks are working 100% bug-free with a good font at present, so it's just a matter of time.

Excellent ... I hope to see/play this when I finally stop monopolizing so much of SamIAm's time!

Those screens look good!

I've got to ask, did you have to do a font-hack to get it to display an 8-wide font instead of the Japanese font, and were they using the 12x12 Japanese ROM font?

Now that I've done it on 2 different games and it turned out to be fairly easy on both, I'm wondering if Emerald Dragon could use the same kind of 4-wide/8-wide bi-width font hack that worked so nicely in Team Innocent and the Xanadu games (before the final VWF code went in).

NightWolve · 08/02/2016, 08:26 PM

Quote from: elmer on 08/02/2016, 08:17 PMI've got to ask, did you have to do a font-hack to get it to display an 8-wide font instead of the Japanese font, and were they using the 12x12 Japanese ROM font?

Now that I've done it on 2 different games and it turned out to be fairly easy on both, I'm wondering if Emerald Dragon could use the same kind of 4-wide/8-wide bi-width font hack that worked so nicely in Team Innocent and the Xanadu games (before the final VWF code went in).

If you look at the History log post here, I noted what I had to do and the 8x12 font harvested out of the PC-FX BIOS actually works nicely.

The hacking was just about overwriting character tiles, that's it. It would be great if you did a better font hack job though, if you ever became interested when other projects finish off. The other thing I'll definitely need help with is hacking the title screen. Haven't looked yet if the graphics are compressed or not, I'm betting they are. David was gonna look at that some day for me, but since the project is asleep for this year also, he's likely waiting for me to prod him.

elmer · 08/02/2016, 09:34 PM

Quote from: NightWolve on 08/02/2016, 08:26 PMIf you look at the History log post here, I noted what I had to do and the 8x12 font harvested out of the PC-FX BIOS actually works nicely.

Oh, darn! I hadn't seen that timeline before, thanks.

Sorry, but if the original developers limited themselves to 8-wide glyphs (Hiragana and Katakana), then it's really, really unlikely that they used the 4-pixel text-coordinate step that makes the bi-width font an "easy" hack.

Perhaps they did ... but I'd be very surprised.

Both Team Innocent and the Xanadu games originally used 4-pixel steps because they chose to deal with the 12-pixel wide Kanji ROM font that meant that alternate glyphs would start on a half-tile boundary.

It would probably take a pretty major hack to use a bi-width or VWF font in ED.

NightWolve · 08/02/2016, 09:50 PM

Quote from: elmer on 08/02/2016, 09:34 PM
Quote from: NightWolve on 08/02/2016, 08:26 PMIf you look at the History log post here, I noted what I had to do and the 8x12 font harvested out of the PC-FX BIOS actually works nicely.
Oh, darn! I hadn't seen that timeline before, thanks.

Sorry, but if the original developers limited themselves to 8-wide glyphs (Hiragana and Katakana), then it's really, really unlikely that they used the 4-pixel text-coordinate step that makes the bi-width font an "easy" hack.

Perhaps they did ... but I'd be very surprised.

Both Team Innocent and the Xanadu games originally used 4-pixel steps because they chose to deal with the 12-pixel wide Kanji ROM font that meant that alternate glyphs would start on a half-tile boundary.

It would probably take a pretty major hack to use a bi-width or VWF font in ED.

Ah, I see. Yeah, 8x12 and there's also an 8x8 custom font mode just for digits that I ripped out with the feidian script tool, but nothing else as far as what I saw.

SamIAm · 08/02/2016, 10:37 PM

Hey NightWolve, if you're ever bored and looking for an alternative thing to work on that's still for this game, I have a great big request: PLEASE figure out some Mednafen cheat codes to let me turn off random battles and give me money and EXP through the roof. I just cannot imagine doing any sort of proper play-test-editing without that.

The current font looks quite acceptable, really. Three lines of 26 (?) characters each is enough from an editorial standpoint, and fixed-width does have a certain old-school charm.

Regardless of how many characters will fit in one box, the thing I'm most worried about is whether there is going to be room in the RAM for a fleshed-out English script. It's really, really nice to be able to use 2.5x as many characters when going from Japanese to English. Elmer did fantastic work on the VWF in the Xanadus, but an even more wonderful thing he accomplished was re-doing the compression and giving me enough space to write essentially anything I want.

Any idea about what that situation looks like for ED? If we're stuck with something along the lines of 1.5x the character count, we'll have to do a heavy amount of truncating and simplifying.

NightWolve · 08/02/2016, 11:06 PM

Oh yes, definitely, I did that for Ys IV, max exp and gold, those are easy even for me to accomplish with the state file. Yeah, flying through the game will help in the 2nd/3rd pass editing to check everything, fix context issues, etc.

Turning off random battles would be something much trickier though, tracking game code logic down, but if elmer is ever bored and available, maybe we could ask help with that at some point.

I think we will be OK on spacing, the text block I worked with and was worried about David said was the biggest, but a few simple things like not subsequently repeating the character name (as you do for Xanadu) did the trick to get it inserted! That's actually the one text block showcased in the screenshots as I didn't insert anything else, so everything you already wrote fit (no truncating, just not repeating character names unnecessarily)! The LZ compression is David's best version and he didn't see anymore possible improvements, so we'll see how it goes after I cross that bridge and review/insert the 60% work you already did.

Mathius · 08/03/2016, 12:11 AM

Nightwolve, those Xanadu pics look amazing! I'm already formulating a harassment schedule toward certain people that are able to make me a gamer's bootleg once the patch is released. My Duo-R needs an epic RPG to enjoy.

SamIAm · 08/03/2016, 12:18 AM

Quote from: Mathius on 08/03/2016, 12:11 AMNightwolve, those Xanadu pics look amazing! I'm already formulating a harassment schedule toward certain people that are able to make me a gamer's bootleg once the patch is released. My Duo-R needs an epic RPG to enjoy.

Those pics are of Emerald Dragon.

The two Xanadu games are being hacked (phenomenally well) by elmer.

SignOfZeta · 08/03/2016, 01:05 AM

Emerald Dragon is one of those OG RPGs that plays so simply and quickly that it's actually...fun, which isn't always the case with battles in RPGs. A translation would be a fantastic thing for the PCE world.

NightWolve · 08/03/2016, 01:12 AM

Quote from: SamIAm on 08/03/2016, 12:18 AM
Quote from: Mathius on 08/03/2016, 12:11 AMNightwolve, those Xanadu pics look amazing! I'm already formulating a harassment schedule toward certain people that are able to make me a gamer's bootleg once the patch is released. My Duo-R needs an epic RPG to enjoy.
Those pics are of Emerald Dragon.

Kind of an understandable mistake to make (well, almost)... ;)

Mathius · 08/03/2016, 02:04 AM

Quote from: NightWolve on 08/03/2016, 01:12 AM
Quote from: SamIAm on 08/03/2016, 12:18 AM
Quote from: Mathius on 08/03/2016, 12:11 AMNightwolve, those Xanadu pics look amazing! I'm already formulating a harassment schedule toward certain people that are able to make me a gamer's bootleg once the patch is released. My Duo-R needs an epic RPG to enjoy.
Those pics are of Emerald Dragon.
Kind of an understandable mistake to make (well, almost)... ;)

Ohhh that's embarrassing....forgive me fellow Turbo sages.

JoshTurboTrollX · 08/03/2016, 01:59 PM

Emmy Dragoo is so very very excellent! Really looking forward to trying it out!!

Nazi NecroPhile · 08/03/2016, 02:20 PM

Quote from: JoshTurboTrollX-16 on 08/03/2016, 01:59 PMEmmy Dragoo is so very very excellent! Really looking forward to trying it out!!

Bitch, please. We haven't forgotten you tried.... and failed.

NightWolve · 08/03/2016, 02:51 PM

Quote from: guest on 08/03/2016, 02:20 PM
Quote from: JoshTurboTrollX-16 on 08/03/2016, 01:59 PMEmmy Dragoo is so very very excellent! Really looking forward to trying it out!!
Bitch, please. We haven't forgotten you tried.... and failed.

Oh wow, that's a nice review. I'm adding it to my project page review links.

nectarsis · 08/03/2016, 04:52 PM

Quote from: guest on 08/02/2016, 11:44 AMHot damn that looks awesome.

couldn't agree more

SavagePencil · 08/04/2016, 03:51 PM

I should double check this when I get home, but I believe it was in the Emerald Dragon manual that it showed a picture of the Avenue Pad 6. I can't find a scan of the manual online, but I was wondering if there were shortcuts assigned to some of the extra buttons?

https://necretro.org/File:EmeraldDragon_PCE_JP_Manual.pdf
https://necretro.org/images/2/22/EmeraldDragon_PCE_JP_Manual.pdf

SavagePencil · 08/08/2016, 10:21 AM

Can anyone translate what the shortcuts are for a 6-button controller?

xcrement5x · 08/08/2016, 11:26 AM

Quote from: SavagePencil on 08/08/2016, 10:21 AMCan anyone translate what the shortcuts are for a 6-button controller?

It doesn't look that helpful

Buttons 5 and 6 are remaps of buttons 2 and 1 respectively. Button 3 looks like it is for Map. I can't make out the Kanji for button 4. Maybe it's to open a party menu?

SamIAm · 08/08/2016, 12:11 PM

Quote from: guest
Quote from: SavagePencil on 08/08/2016, 10:21 AMCan anyone translate what the shortcuts are for a 6-button controller?
It doesn't look that helpful

Buttons 5 and 6 are remaps of buttons 2 and 1 respectively. Button 3 looks like it is for Map. I can't make out the Kanji for button 4. Maybe it's to open a party menu?

That's 相談, which is basically used to talk to your party members. At any time, you can press this button and see a conversation with your party in a closed off screen like you see in the lower right. Usually, they just remind you where you need to go. Occasionally, they say something more entertaining or significant, IIRC.

Gentlegamer · 08/08/2016, 02:55 PM

I read the thread title as "Emerald Dragon Crying"

SavagePencil · 08/08/2016, 06:23 PM

Quote from: Gentlegamer on 08/08/2016, 02:55 PMI read the thread title as "Emerald Dragon Crying"

I wanted to call attention to my title and the best way to do that without rotating siren gifs is to use the "LQQK" model.

Keith Courage · 10/15/2016, 01:11 AM

Quote from: SavagePencil on 08/02/2016, 10:44 AMI received a copy of Emerald Dragon yesterday and had a couple o' questions that I was hoping I could get answered:

1. The game came in a double-disc case. I'm guessing this is one of those instances where they used the second "bay" for holding the map? I hope I'm not missing a fan art disc or anything, but pcengine.co.uk and pcedaisakusen don't indicate the #/discs, and pcecp search appears to be broken.

2. Speaking of PCEDaisakusen, they list an Emerald Dragon Taikenban (link http://www.pcedaisakusen.net/2/28/504/1/Emerald-Dragon-Taikenban-Guidebook-jp.htm), which is described as a "Magazine Insert" but also as a SCD. What is this, exactly?

The second disc spot in every pc engine double case is there to hold your translated CDR disc once an English translation becomes available. The makers of these games could tell the future.

JoshTurboTrollX · 12/21/2016, 10:27 AM

Quote from: NightWolve on 08/03/2016, 02:51 PM
Quote from: guest on 08/03/2016, 02:20 PM
Quote from: JoshTurboTrollX-16 on 08/03/2016, 01:59 PMEmmy Dragoo is so very very excellent! Really looking forward to trying it out!!
Bitch, please. We haven't forgotten you tried.... and failed.
Oh wow, that's a nice review. I'm adding it to my project page review links.

True, it was a failure. But I mostly blame Shape Shifter for eating all my saves... I know I was only 6ish hours into ED, but I just haven't found the time to restart that adventure. An English translation would certainly help!