Pat & Ian video on TurboGrafx-16 Failure - What Could Have Saved It?

[Otaking]

[sanjo]

this brings me back memories.

I vividly recall when the Turbo and the Genesis first came. the Turbo was everywhere, Sears had it, and a bunch of electronics stores (which are all gone now) had it.

I had the NES for about 2 years around then. It was fun, but I was always left longing for more arcade level graphics. That was the thing.. how can we get arcade quality at home?

The Turbo's case, I thought, looked cool and my friends and I really liked the hu-card design. it looked so simple and less cumbersome than the NES cartridge which was always flaky.
However the game on display was always Keith Courage. The game itself wasn't bad, but being kids who were influenced by the arcades.. the first thing we wanted to see were graphics. Keith Courage, while being better than the NES, didnt seem so much better. It didn't wow us. It definitely should've been either Bonk which was funner, or a game that showed off its graphics, like Legendary Axe. and also a 2nd controller port.

The Genesis at that time, had a Altered beast and some other arcade games and those really looked impressive and next gen. So some of my friends started buying them. For me and many others.. Altered beast is ok, but it didn't feel really re-playable or offered the same level of freedom of movement like a good platformer provides, like Mario. So it was still a little meh. It wasn't until Sonic game out that people around us felt that the Genesis was a must have.

But by that time the SNES came out and it as the obvious choice for everyone. It was now a battle for those who had the luxury of buying a 2nd console. Sonic really turned heads because no one experienced a game that had such speeds.

I didn't look back to the Turbo until the CD came out. By that time, maybe only half of the  stores carrying the Turbo had the CD. The two games I saw were gates of thunder and dragon slayer.  By this time, I had the SNES for a year or two. GoT was nice, but I was an RPG nut, so I was more impressed by Dragon Slayer. It was the first time I realized a video game could have CD quality music. That left a really big impression on me. I had really wanted the turbo cd at this time.

Unfortunately by the time my parents had saved enough money, all the places that sold the turbo either stopped selling it, or went out of business. so I went Sega.

[DragonmasterDan]

There are things that certainly could have helped.

"Saved" is a relative term.

Working with Konami to say license the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles arcade game (they'd obviously have to have someone else develop the port) as a killer app in 1989 or 1990 would have got the system off to a much greater start.

A better franchise agreement with Hudson.

Ordering fewer systems at the start and spending more money on advertising.

These all would have been things that could have turned the systems fortunes around early on.


On a side note to comment on their video, by 1993 when Street Fighter II Champion Edition came out retail support was limited to Babbages, Software Etc, Electronics Boutique, Toys R us and mom and pop retailers. Bringing out Street Fighter II, and a licensed controller when your two primary competitors would have the game in short order wouldn't have helped at that time.

By 1992 when Turbo Technologies Inc was formed. The idea was no longer to compete head to head with the Genesis and Super Nintendo but instead to create a niche platform for gamers with the assumption most owners would already have at least one of the other two major 16-bit consoles.

[NecroPhile]

I like how the ignorant chuckleheads used Street Fighter 2 and Ninja Gaiden as examples of third party PCE games that we should've had in the US instead of all those NEC and Hudson games.

[EmperorIng]

One thought: designing HuCards and HuCard cases so as not to be ugly or as dull as humanly possible.

[SignOfZeta]

That's weird. We were just talking about this in another thread.

Btw, it still baffles me that the majority of people seem to think of this show as "video". Just so you know, it's also an audio-only podcast and seriously there's no way I could actually watch one of these all the way through. No wonder these guys are so hated. Stop torturing yourself!

[geise]

Excuse my ignorance, but who is Pat & Ian and why should I care?

[Otaking]

Excuse my ignorance, but who is Pat & Ian and why should I care?

You possibly might not care.

Pat & Ian have a (biweekly?) audio podcast where they cover subjects in retro gaming and modern gaming and usually also any current drama (they were the main youtube channel that covered the whole Retro VGS debacle). 
With the podcast they cut up each subject matter they cover and release it as two short youtube videos each day.

Unlike likeable youtubers such as Bithead1000, Spida1a, Happy Console Gamer etc. I don't particularly like Pat or Ian, they come accross as dicks TBH. But they do cover most current gaming/retro gaming in nice short videos in a way that no other youtube channel that I'm aware of does.

[ToyMachine78]

Excuse my ignorance, but who is Pat & Ian and why should I care?

You possibly might not care.

Pat & Ian have a (biweekly?) audio podcast where they cover subjects in retro gaming and modern gaming and usually also any current drama (they were the main youtube channel that covered the whole Retro VGS debacle). 
With the podcast they cut up each subject matter they cover and release it as two short youtube videos each day.

Unlike likeable youtubers such as Bithead1000, Spida1a, Happy Console Gamer etc. I don't particularly like Pat or Ian, they come accross as dicks TBH. But they do cover most current gaming/retro gaming in nice short videos in a way that no other youtube channel that I'm aware of does.

... And movies, wrastlin', YouTube drama, and a bunch of other shit most don't care about.

[DildoKKKobold]

Unlike likeable youtubers such as Bithead1000, Spida1a, Happy Console Gamer etc. I don't particularly like Pat or Ian, they come accross as dicks TBH.

They really, absolutely do come off as dicks. They have no real chemistry together, Ian is always super defensive, as demonstrated in this clip. (starts at 3m30s if the time jump doesn't work)

Additionally, according to another PCEFXer, Ian's store is way overpriced (I've never been there myself). If this is true then anytime they talk about video game prices, he's been a massive hypocrite. Ian just comes off as very socially awkward and antagonistic towards Pat, despite only being "youtube famous" thanks to Pat.

Everyone do the T-rex!

[NecroPhile]

Everyone do the T-rex!

Ha!  He looks so uncomfortable.

[MNKyDeth]

Wanna know what would have saved the TG16?

Street Fighter 2 on it's own bitches!!! Should have been a pack in and then the Arcade card should have been built into another console because because yeah...Whatever......


Seriously, box art aside.... It needed more games period. You walked into a store and you looked at how many games were on the shelf for the consoles and the TG16 was lacking. They always had a little tiny spot in the games case compared to the Genesis. And what game was always on Demo? Kieth Courage.... I mean wtf. Sure the colors were nice but the gameplay compared to most platformers it felt very stiff and unresponsive.

Imo they needed a slightly better selection of games. More rpgs, more 3d maze crawling style,... I mean, they had them in Japan and the system did great. In the US all we had was a little splattering of mediocre titles mostly, with a few standouts. They had all kinds of games to choose from in Japan but the few we had it was already a niche market when the system was released as the Genesis library of games quickly outgrew what the TG16 had to offer.

But hey.... There might be other factors I have no idea about. F the planet and play yer damned games.

[geise]

Otaking thanks for the info!

EDIT:  ...and after finally clicking on the youtube link and seeing the dudes i went "oooooooooooooooohhhhh those guys....." 

Yeah I don't care.

Seriously though thanks for the info.

[technozombie]

That's weird. We were just talking about this in another thread.

Btw, it still baffles me that the majority of people seem to think of this show as "video". Just so you know, it's also an audio-only podcast and seriously there's no way I could actually watch one of these all the way through. No wonder these guys are so hated. Stop torturing yourself!

It's funny that you say that because Ian seems to think you're his buddy. Check out this video he says it very near the beginning:

[dallaspattern]

It's true, if they had've released SF2 in the US, it would've been huge for the system. Fighting Street was an embarrassment when trying to sell the TG to friends. A Bonk pack in, definitely. Bad cover art, yup. It was definitely a time when these things mattered. However, like the 2nd weezer album, I'm almost glad that it remained underground. Made the system that much more important.

[technozombie]

It's true, if they had've released SF2 in the US, it would've been huge for the system. Fighting Street was an embarrassment when trying to sell the TG to friends. A Bonk pack in, definitely. Bad cover art, yup. It was definitely a time when these things mattered. However, like the 2nd weezer album, I'm almost glad that it remained underground. Made the system that much more important.

The most important thing they could have done was release the TG16 much quicker in the U.S. and allowed them to build a user base before the Genesis released. Even a 6 month window of being top dog would have made a difference.

[DildoKKKobold]

That's weird. We were just talking about this in another thread.

Btw, it still baffles me that the majority of people seem to think of this show as "video". Just so you know, it's also an audio-only podcast and seriously there's no way I could actually watch one of these all the way through. No wonder these guys are so hated. Stop torturing yourself!

It's funny that you say that because Ian seems to think you're his buddy. Check out this video he says it very near the beginning:

OMG, that is hilarious. The fact that retarded Sherlock and Ian are friends is comedic gold. They are made for each other.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Hey look, it's two dudes that don't know nearly as much as they think, talking about something they don't realize they're clueless about.

TL;DR: Hey look , a retro gaming podcast/video!



Seriously, saving the TG16 in USA would have been really easy.


1) Fuck the cardboard boxes.  Waste of money.
2) Don't touch any of the cover art.  Another waste of money.
3) Localize all the arcade games that have BASICALLY NO TEXT TO LOCALIZE.
4) pack-in that people can actually relate to.  Legendary Axe, for example, would've been a good idea.

Or, take it to the next level and pack in say, Vigilante and Altered Beast, as they were both popular arcade games at the time.


The simple fact that they failed to localize alot of really good action/arcade stuff is part of the reason it failed.   

[seieienbu]

Say what you will about Johnny Turbo, there were some pretty compelling commercials early on...

The only problem I have with them would likely be the number of them and possibly the areas coverage.  I recall seeing most of the ones I've viewed on youtube while I was a kid but I'm sure it didn't have the same number of commercials as Nintendo stuff had at around the same time.

Beyond that, coming out a year or so earlier does sound like it would have helped a lot.  Beating the Genesis to market by a substantial amount of time would likely have helped immensely.  As powerful as the TG16 was compared to the NES it could have started its own sort of ad campaign similar to the Nintendon't commercials that Sega was running and perhaps done much better overall.

Hilariously, by the time they started this sort of advertising it was 1992 and the SNES was already in stores.  Comparing New Adventure Island to NES Adventure Island hardly seems a winning move when Zelda 3 is out...

[poponon]

I was too young at the time to have an idea of what the video game market was like, but from what I read it seems like Street fighter 2 would have been a big deal. and I think it's common sense that they should have changed the pack in. My vote would have gone for legendary axe as the pack in.

As for pat and ian , I do enjoy their podcast quite a bit. Ian has good taste imo and is decently knowledgeable. Pat has a lot of passion and is a go getter  with the hobby.

[NecroPhile]

It's true, if they had've released SF2 in the US, it would've been huge for the system.

Huge for the handful of people that owned the system already, perhaps, but it wouldn't have saved the system.  Even if it was released on the same day as the PCE version (6/12/93), it was far too late to make much difference to a firmly niche system with waning retail support.

Fighting Street was an embarrassment when trying to sell the TG to friends.

Maybe three+ years after it came out and everyone was playing Street Fighter 2, but it was a solid arcade port that nobody else had when it was new.

A Bonk pack in, definitely.

They did do that for a while.  Pat and Ian touched on it a bit when they said there was a Blazing Lazers pack-in version with a sticker stuck on the box;  I don't remember a Blazing Lazers version, probably because it never happened, but they definitely did do one for Bonk.

[DragonmasterDan]

Huge for the handful of people that owned the system already, perhaps, but it wouldn't have saved the system.  Even if it was released on the same day as the PCE version (6/12/93), it was far too late to make much difference to a firmly niche system with waning retail support.

The handful of people who owned the system and only Turbo, and wanted to shell out for six button controllers to get it a few months earlier than the SNES version of Turbo Champion Edition or Genesis version Special Champion Edition (which also required buying new controllers). By that time it was far too late and the SNES version of regular Street Fighter II had been out nearly a year.

It would be a killer app exclusive... if it was the first version released on a domestic home console. But the first version of champion edition would have been a stretch.

 

They did do that for a while.  Pat and Ian touched on it a bit when they said there was a Blazing Lazers pack-in version with a sticker stuck on the box;  I don't remember a Blazing Lazers version, probably because it never happened, but they definitely did do one for Bonk.

Yep, no Blazing Lazers sticker version that I remember. But those UK PAL units definitely came with Blazing Lazers.

[Otaking]

Regards Street Fighter II being released in the US it couldn't have come earlier than 1993 and that probably was too late to save the US system.
But people seem to forget and I remember clearly is that with the release of SF II on the PC Engine it meant you could play the full version of SF II on a handheld on the GT/LT!!!!! in mid 1993 this was absolutely huge, I can't get this strongly enough across, in this day and age it's hard to get your head around why that would be such a big deal, but it was.
I remember in 93 (in the UK) I'd just left school and started college and I brought in my GT with SFII and nobody could believe it, it blew everyones minds I showed it to. Take into account most people at the time only knew of the monochrome gameboy.

So if they had of released SF II in the US and I was in charge of marketing I would of massively played up and ran tons of ads saying that the Turbo Express (PCE GT) is the only handheld console in the world that can play the full version of SF II.

Here's a UK video from 93 showing Street Fighter II on a GT to get an idea of what I'm talking about.

Skip to 15.04 in the video
.

[DragonmasterDan]

Regards Street Fighter II being released in the US it couldn't have come earlier than 1993 and that probably was too late to save the US system.
But people seem to forget and I remember clearly is that with the release of SF II on the PC Engine it meant you could play the full version of SF II on a handheld on the GT/LT!!!!!

Yeah, but with two buttons

[HuMan]

Somehow I don't believe every little kid back then honestly used all 6 buttons to their fullest. The teens probably, but PCE SFII on a handheld would still have been a huge deal.

I feel at this point I'm the only person on most forums that never watches anything from the gaming section of YouTube. These people have time and time again proven they only cause prices to inflate, something we don't need more of these days.

[NightWolve]

Btw, it still baffles me that the majority of people seem to think of this show as "video". Just so you know, it's also an audio-only podcast and seriously there's no way I could actually watch one of these all the way through. No wonder these guys are so hated. Stop torturing yourself!

Besides the thread title, you're also referring to my last post here in part ?? This "baffles" you ? If so, you read a bit much into a general use of "Youtube video." It was a video of theirs that I ran into via my SmartTV, that's all and I'm well aware it's a "televised" podcast show essentially.

The reason you want to produce a video for upload to Youtube is for maximum platform/device reach. Damn near everything has a Youtube app, even the crappiest 1st generation BluRay players have one that run on a doggedly slow Java-based Operating System before the Linux variants took hold (Android, WebOS, etc.). Web browser apps became common later, and are still harder to use than a Youtube app (unless you have a touchscreen phone that can work with your TV/device/etc), so getting to simple MP3 podcast links for audio-only is harder.

It's not hard to avoid "torturing" yourself when the ~dozen videos I've seen of theirs are 5-10 minutes in length. The subject just has to be interesting enough to hang on for that long and it was for say the hilarious RetroVGS debacle. My maximum has been say ~30 minutes for a Game Sack episode or say AVGN on rare occasion. I can go longer on other subject matter, but rarely. It's gotta be REALLY entertaining or interesting to stick with it.

It's funny that you say that because Ian seems to think you're his buddy. Check out this video he says it very near the beginning:

OMG, that is hilarious. The fact that retarded Sherlock and Ian are friends is comedic gold. They are made for each other.

Well, it appears that poor Ian may have misread their "buddy" status if Zeta is dissing both him and Pat as torturous to watch/listen to and validating why they're hated... Heh-heh. I know the feelin' on that one...

[jtucci31]

Unlike likeable youtubers such as Bithead1000, Spida1a, Happy Console Gamer etc. I don't particularly like Pat or Ian, they come accross as dicks TBH.

They really, absolutely do come off as dicks. They have no real chemistry together, Ian is always super defensive, as demonstrated in this clip. (starts at 3m30s if the time jump doesn't work)

That's such a good point. Pat seems to act like he never progressed past the age of a nine year old, and Ian rarely acts like he even enjoys being there let alone talking to him. Always just seems like Pat is really prying all he can get out of Ian in order to make a podcast be half of what his amazing Youtube channel is.

[MotherGunner]

this brings me back memories.

I vividly recall when the Turbo and the Genesis first came. the Turbo was everywhere, Sears had it, and a bunch of electronics stores (which are all gone now) had it.

Don't forget the little known "Turbo Zone" island store(s).  Before it ever became "Turbo Zone Direct."

I grew up around the one in Daly City, CA.  Serramonte Mall!

[NightWolve]

As for pat and ian , I do enjoy their podcast quite a bit. Ian has good taste imo and is decently knowledgeable. Pat has a lot of passion and is a go getter  with the hobby.

Yeah, for the ~dozen videos of theirs that I've watched, I also enjoyed their commentary (e.g. #RetroVGS, turbokon/jodi/steve's fake/bootleg HuCards, and a few PC Engine/TG-16 related ones). Perhaps I haven't seen enough to judge them as dicks as others are doing, but it's all about taste in the end. // Err, no pun intended there, heh.

[SignOfZeta]

That's weird. We were just talking about this in another thread.

Btw, it still baffles me that the majority of people seem to think of this show as "video". Just so you know, it's also an audio-only podcast and seriously there's no way I could actually watch one of these all the way through. No wonder these guys are so hated. Stop torturing yourself!

It's funny that you say that because Ian seems to think you're his buddy. Check out this video he says it very near the beginning:

You are correct. He is my buddy, we chat via other forums and SMS regularly, sometimes every day. I've known him for a lot longer than this show has been around. He knows I can't stand watching the show, that I prefer the audio version. I've discussed it with him and also on this forum multiple times. It's not a problem. We only occasionally talk about video games.

So excellent detective work. That's a real lid blower you dug up. I'm now forwarding an image of this post to him.

[SignOfZeta]

Interestingly, I've been flamed both for defending this show and for supporting it. That's weird to me.

[technozombie]

That's weird. We were just talking about this in another thread.

Btw, it still baffles me that the majority of people seem to think of this show as "video". Just so you know, it's also an audio-only podcast and seriously there's no way I could actually watch one of these all the way through. No wonder these guys are so hated. Stop torturing yourself!

It's funny that you say that because Ian seems to think you're his buddy. Check out this video he says it very near the beginning:

You are correct. He is my buddy, we chat via other forums and SMS regularly, sometimes every day. I've known him for a lot longer than this show has been around. He knows I can't stand watching the show, that I prefer the audio version. I've discussed it with him and also on this forum multiple times. It's not a problem. We only occasionally talk about video games.

So excellent detective work as usual, asshole. That's a real lid blower you dug up. I'm now forwarding an image of this post to him.

I'm not sure what I said that was inflammatory, but obviously I hit the nerve of a thin-skinned individual.

[NightWolve]

Heh-heh.

[Otaking]

Maybe SignOfZeta and Ian are the same person???

[esteban]

I thought technozombie was perfectly respectful.

I reckon that Zeta only had one bottle of Soylent Coffiest 2.0 for the entire day and, as a result, is really, really, really hangry.

[DildoKKKobold]

So excellent detective work as usual, asshole. That's a real lid blower you dug up. I'm now forwarding an image of this post to him.

So excellent detective work as usual, asshole. That's a real lid blower you dug up. I'm now forwarding an image of this post to him.

So excellent detective work as usual, asshole. That's a real lid blower you dug up. I'm now forwarding an image of this post to him.

You dun goofed, technozombie.



Consequences will NEVER be the same.

[NightWolve]

What a gyp, for one slight second there, I thought DarkKo was making a serious attempt to bring in some lulz as I looked at his post and text upsizing had begun, but it was a total fail, meme included... :/ Thanks for nothing!

[Otaking]

IanOfZeta

[SignOfZeta]

My animosity was actually aimed at DicK (DarkKobold), I apologize to technozombie. I hit the wrong "reply" button.

BTW, I absolutely hate beer, and Ian hates Phil Collins. We are absolutely not the same person, although we do own some of the same synthesizers.

[technozombie]

My animosity was actually aimed at DicK (DarkKobold), I apologize to technozombie. I hit the wrong "reply" button.

BTW, I absolutely hate beer, and Ian hates Phil Collins. We are absolutely not the same person, although we do own some of the same synthesizers.

No hard feelings from me.

In defense of watching the podcast on Youtube: I watch(or rather listen) in the car on my way to work. I choose this method because I only have to listen to the segments that interest me. For example I'm not a fan of pro-wrestling. In general I enjoy listening to their podcast.

[NightWolve]

Heh, I guess the only real lulz to have come from this thread is the conspiracy that more than one person here thought that SignOfZeta is actually Ian! Hahahaha!!

Guys, SignOfZetaZeke was already unmasked before by Sinistron, his first name is Chad, Arkhan met him in person at some meetup or whatever, and perhaps he is actually friends with Ian, etc.

"Well hold the fuck on Shag- We've just unmasked this sour bully and it turns out it's not Helgeson at all!
It's actually that "fucking master of power metal shooting" Sign of Zeke!"

That look like Ian to you ?? 

[SignOfZeta]

Dang, and I thought it was Donald Most that played Molach in the 1982 Halloween episode of CHiPs.

[LostFlunky]

[DildoKKKobold]

What a gyp, for one slight second there, I thought DarkKo was making a serious attempt to bring in some lulz as I looked at his post and text upsizing had begun, but it was a total fail, meme included... :/ Thanks for nothing!

I just thought it was pretty hilarious that he was "reporting it" to Ian. Its as if he thought anyone on this forum, including technozombie, gave two shits what Ian thinks. It came off as a totally useless bluster, which makes me laugh my ass off.

I'll try harder next time to amuse you. Maybe we'll bring Wacmydongle back for round 3 (or is it 4?)

[LostFlunky]

What a gyp, for one slight second there, I thought DarkKo was making a serious attempt to bring in some lulz as I looked at his post and text upsizing had begun, but it was a total fail, meme included... :/ Thanks for nothing!

I just thought it was pretty hilarious that he was "reporting it" to Ian. Its as if he thought anyone on this forum, including technozombie, gave two shits what Ian thinks. It came off as a totally useless bluster, which makes me laugh my ass off.

I'll try harder next time to amuse you. Maybe we'll bring Wacmydongle back for round 3 (or is it 4?)

He wasn't saying he was reporting it to Ian, he was trying to prove that Ian wouldn't care that Zeta doesn't like Ian's podcasts...

[DildoKKKobold]

He wasn't saying he was reporting it to Ian, he was trying to prove that Ian wouldn't care that Zeta doesn't like Ian's podcasts...

That makes even less sense, if (according to him) he's already had this conversation with Ian. Additionally, given the initial aggressiveness of the post, and the fact that he said "this post" rather than "my post," it really seems like he was sending Technozombie's post to Ian. Hence, lulz.

[geise]

although we do own some of the same synthesizers.

Awesome!

[NightWolve]

What a gyp, for one slight second there, I thought DarkKo was making a serious attempt to bring in some lulz as I looked at his post and text upsizing had begun, but it was a total fail, meme included... :/ Thanks for nothing!

I just thought it was pretty hilarious that he was "reporting it" to Ian. Its as if he thought anyone on this forum, including technozombie, gave two shits what Ian thinks. It came off as a totally useless bluster, which makes me laugh my ass off.

Oh come on, how do people miss such obvious sarcasm on Zeta's part ?? He's got a thicker skin than that! It was just a joke. That is pretty funny though that you'd think he'd run tattle tale over something as silly as this... Maybe it's worth it for the lulz now since some thought he might be Ian himself...

[SignOfZeta]

I don't understand DarkKobald. Maybe if I could remember why he hates me I could put the pieces together.

On the other hand, everyone but him seemed to get what I was saying, despite me replying to the wrong person.

The "reporting" thing is truely odd. I don't even know wtf...in this version of reality am I some kind of fanboy toady that that constantly sends street team updates to this show? I guess that's probably going on somewhere,  but in that case the toady is probably more loyal. I haven't heard the show in a year! Like I said, I'm familiar with Ian since before the show, don't know anything about Pat. It isn't a normal podcast/fan relationship. It's like if your neighbor was Twitter famous. I didn't even know he was doing it until it was fucking huge. He never mentioned it.

[bob]

I have had this screen-grab in my archives for a long time because it made me laugh way back when.  (May 22, 2013 to be precise.  according to date in top right corner)

/zeta_screen.jpg