RetroBlox : Another new Play-Everything "Retro" Console

[NecroPhile]

Let me rephrase my point: The selling point of this device is playing your physical games through HDMI without having to mod your old systems, kinda like a "Multi-system AVS"
If you want to play hacks, homebrew stuff and games that you don't own, you can already do that Right Now both in real hardware through flash carts and burned CDs, and in other emulation boxes that already exist.

Obviously there's other options.  Via HDMI, I can play hueys with a Retron5, CDs with a soft modded Wii and a cheap adapter, or roms/isos/CDs on a computer... but there's nothing that'll do all of the above in one system.  It's not hard to comprehend that I'd prefer a single machine instead of two or three..... or a dozen when you look at playing more than just PCE.

When (or if) this thing comes out, there's nothing stopping you from playing both in it...

You sure about that?  I wouldn't be at all surprised if it won't play roms, isos, or even CDRs, not when DRM and protecting homebrew stuff is a primary goal.

[Michirin9801]

Also wii is only upscaling to 480p, this thing hopefully will upscale nicely to whatever tv you're using.

I do want to try to mod my wii, I recently got a broken one that was just dirty or something works fine for me, so I kinda want to try to mod it. Can you pm me links on how is the best way so I don't have to trudge through the shady corners of the world wide webs?

Yeah that's why HDMI is the selling point... Personally, I'm good with 480p because that's a perfect 2X scale of 240p, and pretty much all the systems you can emulate on the Wii are 240p so... Yeah...

I'll PM you with what you might need, but I don't know if it's gonna work on a supposedly broken Wii, unless you've gotten it fixed since...

Admittedly, I hadn't thought about that... If this device is going to play ISOs as well that's all fine and dandy, but well, I don't know about you, but I already play both PCE CD ISOs and Sega CD ISOs on my Wii ;3

and then you can't shove a real cartridge into the Wii, so there's that whole issue again.

Now do you see how a combination machine would be a useful thing?

Let me rephrase my point: The selling point of this device is playing your physical games through HDMI without having to mod your old systems, kinda like a "Multi-system AVS"
If you want to play hacks, homebrew stuff and games that you don't own, you can already do that Right Now both in real hardware through flash carts and burned CDs, and in other emulation boxes that already exist.

Obviously there's other options.  Via HDMI, I can play hueys with a Retron5, CDs with a soft modded Wii and a cheap adapter, or roms/isos/CDs on a computer... but there's nothing that'll do all of the above in one system.  It's not hard to comprehend that I'd prefer a single machine instead of two or three..... or a dozen when you look at playing more than just PCE.

When (or if) this thing comes out, there's nothing stopping you from playing both in it...

You sure about that?  I wouldn't be at all surprised if it won't play roms, isos, or even CDRs, not when DRM and protecting homebrew stuff is a primary goal.

Guys, there's a lot of conflicting information in here...

First off, It's not hard to wrap my head around the fact that you would want all of them in one system, or that you would want to play them on a modern TV, but one talks about running ROMs and ISOs in it as well as playing real cartridges, and the other talks about it not running those because of DRM, but if it can't run ISOs and ROMs, and you want to play hacks, homebrews and/or games you don't own in it, you're gonna have to get a flash cart and burn CDs, unless the system doesn't play those either somehow, and if that's the case, aren't you gonna need a separate emulation box for those things anyway?

Also, isn't this a 'modular' thing? Doesn't that mean you're gonna have to buy a different attachment for each game system you wanna play on it? Wouldn't that get in the way of the whole "All-in-one" argument? The way I see it, it would be smarter to shove a HuCard slot and a CD reader on a Retron-5-like system and add support for PCE and whatever systems support CDs...

[Gredler]

Yeah that's why HDMI is the selling point... Personally, I'm good with 480p because that's a perfect 2X scale of 240p, and pretty much all the systems you can emulate on the Wii are 240p so... Yeah...

I've not used my wii in forever, but maybe I should give it a shot. The color and quality output of the wii was always such garbage, I never considered it an option. My TV's are 1080 and 4k, so wouldn't a 480 have to be upscaled by the tv? (typically poor quality)

I do want to try to mod my wii, I recently got a broken one that was just dirty or something works fine for me, so I kinda want to try to mod it.

I'll PM you with what you might need, but I don't know if it's gonna work on a supposedly broken Wii, unless you've gotten it fixed since...

I apologize for the confusing sentence; the wii was given to me and because they thought it was broken, but it works fine after some minor maintenance.

[Michirin9801]

Yeah that's why HDMI is the selling point... Personally, I'm good with 480p because that's a perfect 2X scale of 240p, and pretty much all the systems you can emulate on the Wii are 240p so... Yeah...

I've not used my wii in forever, but maybe I should give it a shot. The color and quality output of the wii was always such garbage, I never considered it an option. My TV's are 1080 and 4k, so wouldn't a 480 have to be upscaled by the tv? (typically poor quality)

Have you tried the Wii2HDMI converter? It's pretty cheap, but it's not gonna magically make the Wii output in HD or anything, I don't even know if it reduces input lag, but it's gonna cleanup the composite artifacts and it MIGHT upscale the image in an acceptable manner... I don't know because I play my Wii on a CRT, but that's a thing to keep in the back of your mind...
The other options I can think of are the Wii Component cables, which will also clean up the image somewhat, and a separate upscaler box like the Framemeister or something like that, but the latter has a bit of a prohibitive price...

[Gredler]

Have you tried the Wii2HDMI converter? It's pretty cheap, but it's not gonna magically make the Wii output in HD or anything, I don't even know if it reduces input lag, but it's gonna cleanup the composite artifacts and it MIGHT upscale the image in an acceptable manner... I don't know because I play my Wii on a CRT, but that's a thing to keep in the back of your mind...
The other options I can think of are the Wii Component cables, which will also clean up the image somewhat, and a separate upscaler box like the Framemeister or something like that, but the latter has a bit of a prohibitive price...

No I've not tried up purchase an upscaler for my wii, I was trying to make a point about HDMI selling point of these consoles.

For CRT I'll use the genuine article, but for my 1080p plasmas the analog systems look muddy and control poorly. My 4k has a really nice built in upscaler (probably because 80% of content has to be upscaled for it at this point in 4k's lifespan), so I can play those with component/composite.

If I bought an upscaler, I would skip the wii and use original hardware.

I consider the Wii the highest end of the analog generation 480p being the highest it will go without exterior upscalers, which I dont want to invest in.

I'll try the mod out, and use the component cables I have on the 1080p and 4k at 480p, but I imagine it will still look poorly scaled (except for the aforementioned nice scaler in my 4k)

[Sarumaru]

For someone like me, the advantage of having a console like this would be convenience. For example, about a week ago I had a bunch of guys over for some game playin' and we switched between a few consoles. Someone brought some mega cds, a bunch of pce shits, some sfc carts and some neo cds. I pulled some of my systems out of my game room that were connected to my pvm via a switch and took them to the living room. We played PCE through an upscaler, and I don't have a framemeister so we had to suffer through the lag which made some stuff unplayable. We played the SFC stuff on the retron after, then hooked up the CDZ for a couple rounds.. every time we switched consoles, it somewhat broke the flow of the game playing while I fiddled to connect shit. We didn't even bother with the Mega CD because of two power adapters and just didn't feel like hooking all this shit up....

At the end of the night, there were systems all over the floor. Right now, all the systems went back into the room and I couldn't be bothered to hook all this shit back up to the switch.. seemed like a hassle. I am a huge fan of optical media and a system like this would just make it easy to play my original games on without having to fuss over a billion cables when people come over. All my shit can just stay hooked up to the PVM for my personal enjoyment. If one of my buddies comes over and is like "HAY I HAS NEW GAEM. LETS PLAY NAO" we could just pop it in something like this and be playing. All my other game things can just stay hooked up as they are in the room undisturbed.

This is not for everyone. I get a weird personal enjoyment from playing my original games (maybe because I'm fucking old, whatever), whether it be on real hardware or something that will play them like real hardware. I'm excited for it.
I want it. I'd advocate for it. I want to be involved in it and hope that it becomes a reality. Even if there ARE a few modules I would need to get for the games I want to play, the main system stays plugged in. Changing the module wouldn't be any more of a hassle to me then just switching out a cart. Time for video game playing for me is very rare, especially when friends come over. I don't want to waste that time fiddling with things when we could get straight to the game playing. But that's MY situation why I think I would benefit from such a device.

[SignOfZeta]

Maybe you just don't like old video games very much.

[Sarumaru]

Maybe you just don't like old video games very much.

MAYBE!

[elmer]

I just wanted to chime in to add that the atariage thread is hilarious. I see many of them as wearing foil caps in their parent's basement, next to a shrine they have built and filled with anti-retrovgs evidence...

Yep, there are definitely some folks over there that seem to take their part in the "AtariAge Hater Brigade" a little too seriously ... but dude, your peeps haven't really shown anything more than a pretty skin that could be running on an $35 RPi yet, and your guys are throwing around overblown marketing buzzwords like they're going out of style, while providing little *real* information.

Their actions are only fueling the more-strident members of the doubters-club.

Now, my *guess* at this point is that your guys do actually have some clue about what they're doing.

I just find an RPi or low-end-PC, running a multi-system emulator (probably a hacked Open Source one), with an FPGA that can be reconfigured to read a physical cartridge ... kinda boring.

It's basically a Retro Freak with nicer software and CD support (and probably a much higher price).

But that's just me.

If your friends are right, there is going to be a large-enough group of people addicted to plastic that will love this thing.

But I'm still pinning my hopes-and-dreams on Kevtris's fully-FPGA Zimba3K.

I'll take one-guy-with-a-passion-to-get-things-right over a bunch-of-guys-with-a-passion-to-make-money any day, especially when that guy has shown that he has the technical talent, too.

Having said which ... I'm still enjoying the AA thread, for much the same reason that you are. 

P.S. Interesting to see both Henshin Engine and Sydney Hunter builds on their machine. Wonder where they got those??? 

[OldRover]

P.S. Interesting to see both Henshin Engine and Sydney Hunter builds on their machine. Wonder where they got those??? 

Henshin Engine would have come from Sarumaru and I. Which one of the six million ports of the fifty Sydney Hunter games was on display? I no longer have a hand in any of them, and the only ROM I've ever made was a barebones mapper/coldet demo of the first stage, not even worth messing around with.

[TheClash603]

I know very little beyond what is already public. And what I do know that isn't public can't be shared. All I can say is that the retroblox is real, and it will offer functionality that a raspberry pi can't, at least not with insano crazy modification. One feature in particular will appeal to the turbo crowd.

24/7 Internet connection required to allow for real time notification something new has been posted in the "(Former Mugs)" thread is my guess.

[elmer]

Looks like there was a flyer at the show with some specs ...

It's a Rockchip RK3288 Quad-Core ARM at 1.7GHz, with 2GB of RAM, running Debian linux (NOT Android, yay!!!).

The board that they showed looks like this ..

http://www.armdesigner.com/MINI3288_SoM/


And here's a rather nice development kit board that you can buy on Amazon that uses the same chip ...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RBK1U5G/


Interesting! It might be a nice little machine, especially if they don't lock it down so that folks can run whatever they like on it.

[Gredler]

Looks like there was a flyer at the show with some specs ...

It's a Rockchip RK3288 Quad-Core ARM at 1.7GHz, with 2GB of RAM, running Debian linux (NOT Android, yay!!!).

The board that they showed looks like this ..

http://www.armdesigner.com/MINI3288_SoM/


And here's a rather nice development kit board that you can buy on Amazon that uses the same chip ...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RBK1U5G/


Interesting! It might be a nice little machine, especially if they don't lock it down so that folks can run whatever they like on it.

Glad to hear it got a elmer thumbs up. I am duophilally biased to be hopeful this does well, and after a absolutely horrible retro pi sales pitch from a friend and recently added as arcade cabinet at the office, I can only hope this thing at least consistently displays games nicely.

That tretro pi my friend brought over and the one they installed in a Arcade cab at work, both look like dog doo, like worse than RF on a LCD. They have to be setting it up wrong on the back end, because there were no front end available graphical settings. I just needed point sampling fod pixel scaling at a integer scale of 4:3.

I swear, half the games were 16:9 stretch, half 4:3, all were blurry as get out with graphical bugs and weird pixelated side bars, I was actually flabbergasted at how bad his was. The one at work is slightly better but I think it's because they just chose specific decently functional games.

It made me want a retro pi even more so I can make a package of config settings to give to my friend and whoever set up the work cabinet, because it's atrociously bad.

I am adding a fourth hope for this thing.

Crisp pixel perfect display settings for the person who is familiar with playing the games at 4:3 on a CRT out of the box.

Screw filters and smoothing and stretching, if they hide those in an optional menus then whatever, but just make the games (ROM or cart, ISO or disc) look good with little to no setup besides plugging the thing in.

[Phase]

That tretro pi my friend brought over and the one they installed in a Arcade cab at work, both look like dog doo, like worse than RF on a LCD. They have to be setting it up wrong on the back end, because there were no front end available graphical settings. I just needed point sampling fod pixel scaling at a integer scale of 4:3.

I swear, half the games were 16:9 stretch, half 4:3, all were blurry as get out with graphical bugs and weird pixelated side bars, I was actually flabbergasted at how bad his was. The one at work is slightly better but I think it's because they just chose specific decently functional games.

It made me want a retro pi even more so I can make a package of config settings to give to my friend and whoever set up the work cabinet, because it's atrociously bad.

I am adding a fourth hope for this thing.

Crisp pixel perfect display settings for the person who is familiar with playing the games at 4:3 on a CRT out of the box.

Screw filters and smoothing and stretching, if they hide those in an optional menus then whatever, but just make the games (ROM or cart, ISO or disc) look good with little to no setup besides plugging the thing in.

I think the latest RetroPie builds default to crisp pixes but not 100% sure.
I had the same problem, its the resolution when in the emulator.
 go to... Retropie Setup_Confgig/Tools_Config Edit_CBasicEmuOpt_PCE_Render Res then set it to video output res
You have to do this in the other systems too afaik. After that there is also bilinear filtering you can turn off but the main problem is the resolution.
The RetroPies config menus are not very fun 

[SignOfZeta]

It's amazing how long we've been fucking with this "%90 perfection" shit. 20 years basically. I don't know where people get the energy to spend building yet another not-quite-good-enough-to-actually-play shelf sitting tech demo.

I've basically given up on anything the Wii or OSX won't play and I'll just stick to old systems with games I can afford. It's a lot more fun than staring through a haze or trying to figure out if that audio weirdness is real or your imagination.

Recently both of my smaller CRTs have broken down and while I look for parts I'm running a very low end RF-only 19" for copying LDs and testing shit and whatever and honestly...it looks kinda low on color but it's SO much better than some fucked up flat panel digital bullshit.

[ccovell]

I share SignOfZeta's frustration.  When emus / game boxes display on modern TVs, they seldom do the no-brainer: integer scaling.  The only good, customizable examples of such I have seen recently have been (by sheer coincidence, I'm sure) FPGA-based complete systems (or NES PPU addons/replacements).

But I'm a CRT holdout who never got rid of all his '80s/'90s game systems, so I'm not a desirable customer, anyway...

[bartre]

It's amazing how long we've been fucking with this "%90 perfection" shit. 20 years basically. I don't know where people get the energy to spend building yet another not-quite-good-enough-to-actually-play shelf sitting tech demo.

I've basically given up on anything the Wii or OSX won't play and I'll just stick to old systems with games I can afford. It's a lot more fun than staring through a haze or trying to figure out if that audio weirdness is real or your imagination.

Recently both of my smaller CRTs have broken down and while I look for parts I'm running a very low end RF-only 19" for copying LDs and testing shit and whatever and honestly...it looks kinda low on color but it's SO much better than some fucked up flat panel digital bullshit.

I'll agree to this, I've got my PVM for my old shit, and my PC/modern displays for new stuff.
granted, PS2 era stuff looks pretty damned good on a CRT or LCD style, but it's good to be flexible.

I had a night of Dreamcast with some coworkers at the bar not too long ago hooked up to a modern display via a framemeister and that was a pretty good time.

honestly as long as input delay isn't but 1-2 ms, i'm not too worried about it.

that said, if it CAN be eliminated, I'm all for it.
I'm just not good enough at games to worry about it

[elmer]

Glad to hear it got a elmer thumbs up. I am duophilally biased to be hopeful this does well, and after a absolutely horrible retro pi sales pitch from a friend and recently added as arcade cabinet at the office, I can only hope this thing at least consistently displays games nicely.

That tretro pi my friend brought over and the one they installed in a Arcade cab at work, both look like dog doo, like worse than RF on a LCD.

My reaction is a little more complex than a thumbs-up, I'm afraid.

Their use of the RK3288 should deliver performance on-par with an RPi3 AFAIK. I *think* that the MALI GPU is a bit more powerful that the Broadcom unit in the RPi, but I don't know how much difference that'll make.

The point is that it's just another software-emulator-running-on-an-ARM box, probably running the same libretro cores, that RetroPie does.

The hybrid-emulation stuff that they're hyping still has to be explained ... but if they're just reading the ROM off of cartridge dynamically as they execute the emulator, then that would seemingly result in a lot of latency problems that would slow down the CPU and screw up the emulation.

It was notable that they didn't show anything running off of a cartridge at this weekend's show.


For me, if you're just going to run a software-emulator, then you can put together a much more powerful platform, that will run your emulator much better, if you just buy a cheap refurbished Dell Business computer and turn it into a dedicated emulator box.

http://www.dellrefurbished.com/

Dell Optiplex 7010 3.2GHz Quad-Core i5 with 4GB RAM & Win8Pro (downgradable to Win7, or just run linux).
$180

Dell Optiplex 7010 3.3GHz Dual-Core i3 with 4GB RAM & Win7 & AMD 7470 GPU.
$180

Throw a $30 refurbished AMD 7570 GPU into the 1st one of those, and you've got a *really* nice little dedicated-emulator box.

[Gredler]

The moral I am gleening from this conversation is: Original hardware, or windows based full emulator box? I don't have a problem with that; I've always used windows machines for emulation, and have found every other emulation device to be inferior to a windows machine running typical emulators. The front end is not as fancy feeling, but the gameplay and emulation quality is as good as it's going to get.

I don't understand the retro pi obsession; it seems to suck? Has anyone here gotten a good quality across the board setup for one yet?

4. Turbo/PCE emulation... I wish I could share the bits of inside info is was given, but this is going to be something special. Better than any emulator currently available. Bigusly.

Catastrophy: Exclusive to Retroblox PCE 2018.


Broke the news first here, get your preorders in.

[NecroPhile]

So far it's long on buzzwords and short on real capabilities and specifications.  It smacks of the hype machine bullshit of the retrovgs, so I'll save my excitement for when they reveal something tangible.

[elmer]

For tech savvy peeps, yes, there are inexpensive options for building a nice dedicated emu device... even without going the route of power thirsty PC hardware. I think retroblox will appeal more to gamers who aren't necessarily savvy with tech.

Certainly! There are plenty of companies and ideas that have been wildly successful, just by making something easier for folks. That's a good business strategy.

You're right, a PC uses a lot more electricity than an ARM-based system. But it's also a lot more capable. Is the electricity usage really a significant factor for folks?

When it comes to ease-of-installation, I get the concern, but don't forget that you've got things like "Lakka" already out there ...

Lakka is a lightweight Linux distribution that transforms a small
computer into a full blown game console.

Lakka is the official Linux distribution of RetroArch and the libretro
ecosystem.

* Powerful

Built on top of the famous RetroArch emulator, Lakka is able to emulate
a wide variety of systems and has some useful features such as automatic
joypad recognition, rewinding, netplay, and shaders.

* User friendly

Lakka is easy to setup and use. Once installed on your SD card or USB
flash drive, you just have to copy your ROMs on the device, power up the
rig and plug your joypad and enjoy your favorite games.

* Low cost

We try our best to keep the hardware required to run Lakka as cheap as
possible. The software is optimized to run fast even on low end
computers, and we support a lot of USB joypads.

* Open source

Lakka is a community-driven project. Coders, designers and gamers, from
all around the world, are working together to make it the Ultimate
Emulation OS. Come and join us!


There are pre-made builds for the RPi and various other ARM boxes, and for PCs.

The moral I am gleening from this conversation is: Original hardware, or windows based full emulator box?

Everyone gets to make their own choice on that one! 

There are other plug-in-your-old-carts ARM-based systems either available, or coming-soon.

It's up to these guys to show, in detail, why their system is the one to go for, and why folks should believe that they can make it, and make it well enough that it will last as long as all these old consoles that they're telling us are falling-apart.

Their choice of that slot-loading laptop CD drive doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

Perhaps these guys *will* be the ones to do it right.

But when they've had this "big reveal" to let people know about the project, and then folks turn around and ask sensible questions as a follow up, about things that the team *should* already have decided by now, and the official answer is just "More will be revealed during our kickstarter next month." ... well ... that doesn't sound good.

[ccovell]

But when they've had this "big reveal" to let people know about the project, and then folks turn around and ask sensible questions as a follow up, about things that the team *should* already have decided by now, and the official answer is just "More will be revealed during our kickstarter next month." ... well ... that doesn't sound good.

Yes, I think giving details early is like a "Rolling Start" in Daytona USA... best to start the Kickstarter with awareness of the product, rather than spin your tires when the KS begins.

[SignOfZeta]

The problem with anything Linux whatsoever is that...basically I consider Linux evangelists liars. They always say it's soooooooooo easy that even a simpleton can do it but typing something out that's 100 characters with zero syntax flaws is already more difficult than anything most users have done with a computer in their lives. Most people don't even know "where stuff saves".  In the opinion of a Linux advocate (and, it could be argued, reality) all users of a lower pay grade than them are simpletons and I think they sometimes forget that when they are proselytizing. A lot of us are way too dumb to do this kind of thing. Many more are too busy running our familiy business or putting our fires or fixing leaks or taking out the garbage in our daily jobs to spend as much time polishing our L337 micro as people in other walks of life do.

I know an "emulator and OS on a self install disc" *can* work and would be amazing, but I would bet money than the project was considered finished when it was only %95 good enough for the average user. I say this from being suckered into a night with Linux dozens of times in the past. Of course they have a GUI and its just like Windows but these fuckers always...ALWAYS have me opening a shell and phoning a friend trying to bash some shit out. I refuse to touch anything Linux at this point. It's not a technical problem, it's a social one.

Additional software will be needed. Something with have to be compiled or converted. Nothing just...works with Linux unless your friend guides you through every single dumb step. I don't think people who understand what a "finished job" even is would be working with Linux to begin with.

What's that you say? This time it will be different?

Fuck off. You're a liar, just like the last guy. I'd rather spend all weekend trying to get a front loading NES to recognize a $1 game.

[elmer]

I know an "emulator and OS on a self install disc" *can* work and would be amazing, but I would bet money than the project was considered finished when it was only %95 good enough for the average user.
...
What's that you say? This time it will be different?

You're absolutely right. I sometimes (often) forget that a lot of the tech stuff that I find reasonably-easy, is total gobbledegook to most folks ... just like what a lot of other folks can do is totally gobbledegook to me.

There *is* a market for this thing if it's done well, lives up to its promises, and is *really* user-friendly.

Yes, I think giving details early is like a "Rolling Start" in Daytona USA... best to start the Kickstarter with awareness of the product, rather than spin your tires when the KS begins.

Absolutely, I totally agree.

I believe that's what they were trying to do.

Perhaps they believe that they have. Perhaps lots of people out there believe that they have.

So far it's long on buzzwords and short on real capabilities and specifications.  It smacks of the hype machine bullshit of the retrovgs, so I'll save my excitement for when they reveal something tangible.

This seems like the best response.

They're giving out more info, slowly on their forum, and now have a list of machines that will be supported, together with the obligatory "but wait ... there's more!".

The buzzwords and hype are in full-force.

Meanwhile, the AtariAge Hater Brigade has been woken from its crypt, and is smelling fresh blood! 

IMHO, Nulltard's friends should really hype less, and show more.

If what they're saying has any deep foundation in truth, then what they've achieved is technically impressive, and pretty revolutionary, and it's not like some competitor is going to come out of nowhere and clone it all in 2 months before the KickStarter.

When folks promise something that seems to be too-good-to-be-true, it usually is.

[elmer]

The point is that it's just another software-emulator-running-on-an-ARM box, probably running the same libretro cores, that RetroPie does.

The hybrid-emulation stuff that they're hyping still has to be explained ... but if they're just reading the ROM off of cartridge dynamically as they execute the emulator, then that would seemingly result in a lot of latency problems that would slow down the CPU and screw up the emulation.

On their forum they're now claiming that they're not just using existing emulators, because those weren't suitable to run with their hybrid-emulation technology.

OK, that's good to hear, and makes perfect sense. They're obviously not completely full-of-sh*it.


But then they say that they've written their own suite of emulators, from scratch.
With a small team.
In approximately a year (I guess, given the timing).
When they have day-jobs.

That's less plausible. Definitely possible, with enough dedication, but less ... plausible.

It definitely puts the onus on them to actually show that this stuff works, and works well.

Their whole product is no longer an evolutionary step that is built on existing and proven hardware and software.

It's a different ballpark now, and it's up to them to show if they really do have something "revolutionary", or whether they're just full-of-sh*t after all.

[jtucci31]

Recently both of my smaller CRTs have broken down and while I look for parts I'm running a very low end RF-only 19" for copying LDs and testing shit and whatever and honestly...it looks kinda low on color but it's SO much better than some fucked up flat panel digital bullshit.

I never thought I'd ever really have to worry about not having a CRT to play old games on, but with Goodwill not accepting them anymore it's going to get harder and harder faster than we know it.

[Gredler]

I never thought I'd ever really have to worry about..  it's going to get harder and harder faster than we know it.

That's what I said, to her.

In all honesty, I can't say much about what I know either but I think I can safely say the people behind this project art not approaching it as part time hobbyists

[SignOfZeta]

Recently both of my smaller CRTs have broken down and while I look for parts I'm running a very low end RF-only 19" for copying LDs and testing shit and whatever and honestly...it looks kinda low on color but it's SO much better than some fucked up flat panel digital bullshit.

I never thought I'd ever really have to worry about not having a CRT to play old games on, but with Goodwill not accepting them anymore it's going to get harder and harder faster than we know it.

I'm %100 confident I'll have CRTs for the next 20 years if not the rest of my life. You won't be able to pick perfectly functional $2500 Wegas at the curb all day but Jesus, that's obviously not going to last forever.

I'll learn to fix the things and find the parts I guess. I have a local repair guy but he gives up easy. I need to find another place. I also need to learn about making flybacks fit into machines they weren't designed for. The transformer in my JVC pro monitor died a while back and new ones aren't easy to get...

[Gredler]

I grabbed a free 36" FD Trinitron about a year back, and have been meaning to learn how to adjust the yolk to fix geometry and color alignment issues, but am to much of a Nulltard to nut up and mess with it.

I agree though, I think we have a bit of time left before CRT's are completely unavailable I imagine the supply will shrink in size both per unit scale and number of units available out there equally. The larger ones, as Zeta pointed out, will fade away first I imagine.

I do think the enthusiast market will keep them available beyond the cheap/free status they have now for a very long time too.

[SignOfZeta]

I like what they are saying about "hybrid emulation". Not the part about how it's "completely new" since by definition nothing hybrid is completely new. I like that physical carts have direct memory/bus access. Actual advantages are probably minute but in theory...

I don't like that it's as locked down as any other console.

If it comes out and earns a good rep I'll look into it. Paying $200 to play PlayStation and PCE games when I can already do this with a pile of stuff I already have and is barely worth that much to begin with doesn't make a lot of sense.

Like, if you are playing real SNES carts then the basic SNES does a pretty ace job of that. I kinda need more features I don't already have.

Unlike the VGS, which was seemed stupid from the first minute, I'm open minded at the moment.

[SignOfZeta]

Ask him why they won't just say "PlayStation" when they use terms like Sega CD, SNES, and even now PSOne.

[sirhcman]

Ask him why they won't just say "PlayStation" when they use terms like Sega CD, SNES, and even now PSOne.

You are asking a hard hitting question Zeta! I can't wait to hear the answer!!

[Gredler]

My questions would be

1) Online play?
1a) Friends lists / social interaction / match making?

2) Rendering modes?
2a) Default settings? Options?

3) Bluetooth Controller Support?
3a) Which? # maximum to connect?

4) Saturn?

5) Flash cart / everdrive Support?

6) GBA?

[elmer]

I won't have all the answers (either through ignorance or verbal NDA) but I did get some interesting info.

You've been upstaged by the RetroBlox guys themselves ...

http://retroblox.com/2017/02/08/everything-you-need-to-know/


They say that they'll demonstrate it at a couple of events *before* the KickStarter, where folks can just bring along any-old-cartridge to run on it (VERY, VERY GOOD IDEA!).

If they can do that, then I'll agree that they've proved that it works, and my hat will be off to them.


But ... it's going to be locked-down, with an encrypted SD-card that will only run stuff that you directly rip yourself on the console, and carts that include expansion-chips (StarFox, etc), will always need to be physically inserted in order to run.

No installing downloaded ROMs or ISO images.

So they're avoiding the issue of piracy, and just punting it downstream to the Reproduction guys like Tobias.

The pricing bar has been set by their own comparision ...

We're not confirming prices today, but we can tell you that RetroBlox, including 1 Element Module and controller, will be much less than a base Nintendo Switch, and additional Element Modules will vary in cost depending on complexity (both software and hardware), but won't cost any more than a new video game. The final pricing will be announced before the launch of the Kickstarter Campaign in April.

So, I'm guessing that means $250-$299 for the base unit+1 module+controller, and $60 for each additional module.

I hope that's what folks are looking for.

For myself, it offers *me* little advantage over owning real hardware and a CRT, or just using an emulator running on a PC.


Anyone that's interested in the same basic hardware, but without the cartridge-slots or the lockdown, should be able to buy one of these in a few weeks (for $70) ...

http://www.cnet.com/products/asus-tinker-board/preview/

[sirhcman]

I won't have all the answers (either through ignorance or verbal NDA) but I did get some interesting info.

You've been upstaged by the RetroBlox guys themselves ...

http://retroblox.com/2017/02/08/everything-you-need-to-know/

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=21939.msg485919#msg485919

[SignOfZeta]

I agree. If they show it running random carts all day, not dumps of carts, that would be impressive.

[elmer]

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=21939.msg485919#msg485919

Good point, how-on-earth did I miss that post??? 

As I said, they've actually come up with a bunch of good information there, answered a lot of questions, and promised to show it running stuff *before* the KickStarter.

Good stuff!!! 

[CrackTiger]

Ask him why they won't just say "PlayStation" when they use terms like Sega CD, SNES, and even now PSOne.

It says "Sony Playstation" in the first photo of the console menu on the Everything You Need To Know page that Nulltard posted.

[DeshDildo]

I grabbed a free 36" FD Trinitron about a year back, and have been meaning to learn how to adjust the yolk to fix geometry and color alignment issues, but am to much of a Nulltard to nut up and mess with it.

Do you have the controller with it?  If so you can enter the "factory" or "technician" mode and correct a lot of it that way.  I fixed a bunch of issues on my 32".

[elmer]

I'll have DoxPhile chat open if anyone wants to stop by with questions. I won't have all the answers (either through ignorance or verbal NDA) but I did get some interesting info.

Here's one for you ...

Since they adamantly don't want to support piracy by allowing you to put your own ROM images onto the system ... how are they expecting you to get a Playstation BIOS, or Sega CD BIOS, or PCE System Card image onto the system???

Are real-hardware PCE owners now going to be expected to fight against RetroBlox owners for a dwindling supply of Arcade Card DUO & PRO cards???

Even if it's possible for us PCE folks, how are the Sega CD & Playstation folks supposed to handle it???

[sirhcman]

Are real-hardware PCE owners now going to be expected to fight against RetroBlox owners for a dwindling supply of Arcade Card DUO & PRO cards???

Haven't everdrives made this a non-issue?

[elmer]

Haven't everdrives made this a non-issue?

Doesn't that rather depend upon who buys the RetroBlox, and why?

Isn't it tailor-made for folks that want to run *real* cartridges and *real* CDs on a piece of hardware.

Is that the same crowd that have a pre-loaded TurboEverdrive on hand?

For anyone that doesn't have a PCE already, are you saying that newcomers would expect to buy a RetroBlox (with SNES Module, probably), and then pay another $60 for the PCE Element Module, and then expect to have to go out an buy a $80 TurboEverdrive, too?

Even if they do ... what about the Sega CD and Playstation?

I'm ignorant here. I know that both of those have BIOSs on board. ...
... But are those BIOSs not needed during gameplay? It's a serious question, I just don't know.

[SamIAm]

I'm ignorant here. I know that both of those have BIOSs on board. ...
... But are those BIOSs not needed during gameplay? It's a serious question, I just don't know.

As someone who had no idea what is really going on under the hood, I think that the answer is "sometimes".

Magic Engine has its own substitute bios, although it doesn't work as well as a real one (which it gives you the option to set).

I know I've played a Saturn emulator that didn't need a bios, although again, many problems were solved by providing one.

The only way that this Retro-whatever could be legit, without obtaining permission to use the bioses anyway, would be for the developers to roll their own for each system. Even if they could manage it, this would seem to bring down the likelihood of accurate emulation significantly.

[elmer]

sam gets it

Poor answer ... you just sidestepped the question. 

As SamIAm pointed out, the "substitute" BIOSs provided with emulators are typically cr*p, with lots of problems.

How are folks supposed to get a real-and-working original BIOS into the RetroBlox console?

Or are you telling me that after every other emulator-author has come up with a lousy substitute-BIOS after years of work, that your guys have suddenly created 100% compatible ones, along with everything else that they've done, all in the last year-and-a-bit?

'cmon ... their posts today have been good news, and on the right track to shutting down the Hater Brigade.

I've got a good theory of what they've done technically, and I can see that it *could* be a real improvement over the existing emulators.

Don't mess up my semi-happy feelings with evasions. 

[Psycho Punch]

I overreacted but I'm still unconvinced by this whole thing. Guess it's a wait and see situation.

The BIOS question is a very good one but if I recall correctly the PSx emulator (which is an accurate one) doesn't need a BIOS dump file to work at all. There's probably a decent way to do it... and didn't most games patch the BIOS in RAM at runtime anyway?
I'm pretty sure that other consoles are going to need actual dumps to work though. The PCE side of things can get away with demanding an actual syscard in the console... which is kinda annoying for people who don't have one.

[Dicer]

This thing seems like an overly complicated hassle, blah blah blah protect copyright blah blah blah...I get that but in the end a person can go get a pi for the cheap and setup a competent emulation box for a fraction and with much less headache. I'm not seeing the benefit of this so far.

[NecroPhile]

But ... it's going to be locked-down, with an encrypted SD-card that will only run stuff that you directly rip yourself on the console, and carts that include expansion-chips (StarFox, etc), will always need to be physically inserted in order to run.

No installing downloaded ROMs or ISO images.

That sucks.  I'd rather not waste days dumping and ripping hundreds of games.

The pricing bar has been set by their own comparision ...

We're not confirming prices today, but we can tell you that RetroBlox, including 1 Element Module and controller, will be much less than a base Nintendo Switch, and additional Element Modules will vary in cost depending on complexity (both software and hardware), but won't cost any more than a new video game. The final pricing will be announced before the launch of the Kickstarter Campaign in April.

So, I'm guessing that means $250-$299 for the base unit+1 module+controller, and $60 for each additional module.

They also dismissed the Retro Freak and its support of a dozen different systems as forcing you to pay for functionality that you don't need if you only want to play games on a couple different systems.  If your price estimates are accurate, they made a stupid comparison.

Are real-hardware PCE owners now going to be expected to fight against RetroBlox owners for a dwindling supply of Arcade Card DUO & PRO cards???

Haven't everdrives made this a non-issue?

How so?  The everdrive can emulate a Super System Card but it can't emulate an Arcade Card.

[NecroPhile]

You could always just rip them as you play them. I don't really see any benefit (or fun) in pre-ripping all those games, especially since it probably won't take but a few seconds per cart.

If I bought one of these, it'd be hooked to the LCD in the living room (not in the game room) and taken to other people's homes, so the benefit would be in not having to move around my games.

(hey, if retro freak counts gb/gbc/gba, snes/sfc, gen/mega as separate consoles then why can't i? lol)

Because it's stupid?  There's no question that the Retro Freak supports more distinct platforms out of the box.

Also, there is no retro emubox thing out there today that has built in support for capturing screenshots/videos and streaming on twitch.  At least not that I'm aware of.  So comparing the base unit to Retro Freak or Retron isn't exactly apples to apples.

I agree.  Being honest that the Retro Freak supports more platforms for (maybe) similar cost but is missing wireless pad support, is limited to 720p instead of 1080p, lacks a disc drive, etc. would've been a far better answer from them.

You won't need to use any system cards of any kind with Retroblox, so isn't this moot?

They've not said explicitly that it supports Arcade Card games, so how would I know?  Similarly, there's no word on how or if it'll support Games Express games or the various games that have system card incompatibilities.

Maybe they've built a brand new system card bios that'll do all of the above with 100% compatibility, but I'll believe it when I see it.

[SignOfZeta]

Wait...you're saying it *won't* dump games from a flash card? How does it know and what kind of bullshit is that?

What's happened here you see is that all the conventional means of copy protections digital and analog have all been defeated so consoles that were designed to be "closed" are essentially now as open as any PC was in the 80s.

Well, this thing seems like it will fix THAT fucking problem.

The more we talk about this the more I realize they've taken a very big bite. I hope they can chew it. The BIOS question seems insurmountable. With non-obey systems that don't have their disc OS on a cart especially. You can:

1) reverse engineer a good one

2) license the real one

Both seem unrealistic in the case of Sega CD. Bleam didn't use a real PS BIOS but it was also custom written on a game by game basis, IIRC. They were also sued out of business by Sony, who lost every judgement but killed them with legal costs.

[SignOfZeta]

Ah, yeah.