U.S release dates of the Turbo Duo and Sega CD

BigusSchmuck · 08/27/2017, 09:26 PM

Just realized they came out within 5 days of each other in the U.S? October 10th for the Duo, October 15th for the Sega CD (according to Wikipedia). If there is some truth to this, then the Duo really was a stellar deal.

CrackTiger · 08/27/2017, 09:34 PM

They had a solid line up of Super CD titles on shelves months before that as well.

TheClash603 · 08/28/2017, 08:38 AM

The Sega CD was a terrible value in comparison to the Duo when it came out at $299.

When the Sega CD Model 2 came out at $229 less than a year later, it was much more reasonable. I bet the Sega CD would've been a game changer if it came out originally at $199 somehow.

esteban · 08/28/2017, 08:42 AM

Ha! That's closer than I thought it was. The promotional/marketing juggernaut of SEGA was incredible at that time...I don't think I talked to anyone about DUO...just Sega CD. I only knew a few people who had TG-16, but I don't think any of those folks upgraded to the CD-ROM lifestyle.

TANGENT: I tried, for months, to buy the System Card 3 upgrade for TG-CD, and I just gave up. Even after DUO launched, I couldn't buy the damn System Card (which had been heavily promoted to TG-16 fans)...

...it still irks me! I should let go, but, dammit, was it because folks were too lazy to take an order over the phone? Should I have sent in my order? These memories still haunt me. As a kid, it was a "big deal" because I had to ask my parents to order with a credit card...and I had saved up the cash ($100+) for months already...

In memory of Sega CD (which my brother had no problem buying with the money he saved up):

STATUS: Image successfully recycled (x37)

CrackTiger · 08/28/2017, 09:32 AM

After I got my TurboDuo, I sold my friend the Turbo-CD set and he ordered the System 3 card from Canada once it became available, but there was a delay.

SignOfZeta · 08/28/2017, 12:01 PM

It was a better deal for sure but because of the games (packed in and otherwise available). Most of what you got with a Duo had already been on the market for years whereas the Sega CD was a way more complicated add-on and was new at that time. People had already played Ys I&2 but seeing terrible grainy Night Trap video that couldn't be done (hopefully) on TG made people with no taste and $300 spontaneously shit themselves.

That's one way of putting it of course, but when I used to work at a rental place almost none of my customers had seen game on any CD before. Sega CD was their introduction to that.

xcrement5x · 08/28/2017, 12:27 PM

Quote from: TheClash603 on 08/28/2017, 08:38 AMThe Sega CD was a terrible value in comparison to the Duo when it came out at $299.

When the Sega CD Model 2 came out at $229 less than a year later, it was much more reasonable. I bet the Sega CD would've been a game changer if it came out originally at $199 somehow.

That seems unlikely for the model 1, but I bet they could have done the model 2 at closer to $200 if they'd started with that.

I got my SegaCD much later after release and bought a used one from a friend's brother but loved the system, didn't get into the TG/PCE/Duo arena of stuff until much much later but the cinematics for games like Lunar and Popful Mail for the SegaCD just blew my mind at the time

johnnykonami · 08/28/2017, 01:46 PM

I might have told this story before, sorry for the repeat if so! I saved up for the Duo the year it came out, but since I had to go to school during the day back then, my sister went to pick it up for me so I could have it waiting for me when I got home. The guy at Babbages (I think, or Electronics Boutique, one of the two) sent her home with a Sega CD. I don't know if he was an undercover FEKA agent or not, but I am betting. I didn't even have a genesis at the time, but even if I did, I still would have sent it back I wanted the Duo so bad! We exchanged it a day or two later and to this day I have fond memories of every single pack-in game. I lusted after Ys in the promotional Duo World for months before, so that was the main thing. But Gate of Thunder, Ninja Spirit and Bomberman were all amazing. I already had played and owned on Hu both Bonk games, but with those included it's easily the best pack-in set of all time in my eyes.

SignOfZeta · 08/28/2017, 02:38 PM

FEKA scum...

LostFlunky · 08/28/2017, 02:46 PM

Quote from: johnnykonami on 08/28/2017, 01:46 PM... I already had played and owned on Hu both Bonk games, but with those included it's easily the best pack-in set of all time in my eyes.

Definitely the best pack-in set of all time.

Atari 2600 - Combat (fun for 2 players still)

Odyssey - Speedway/Spinout/SpeedShitout - (not fun at any speed)

Intellivision - Las Vegas Poker and BlackJack (fun - but not what any kid wanted)

Colecovision - Donkey Kong (pretty sweet - even gimped as it was)

Bally Astrocade - Basic (Yeah!)

NES - Super Mario Bros / Duck Hunt (pretty awesome)

SMS - Hang On / Safari Hunt (nope)

Genesis - Altered Beast (nope - wait for Sonic kids!)

TG16 - KEEF! (keef?)

SNES - Super Mario World (2nd best pack in ever)

Sega CD - ? was there a pack in at launch? I thought Sewer Shark came with model 2?

TurboDuo - Ys I&II, Gate of Thunder, Bonk's Adventure, Bonk's Revenge, Bomberman and random game!

Jaguar - Cybermorph (frustrating)

3DO - ""

Playstation - "' (demo disk)

Saturn - "" - (demo disk)

N64 - "" (2 games at launch - you think they are giving one away?)

Dreamcast - "" (demo disk)

Ps2 - ""

GCN - ""

Xbox - ""

Wii - Wii Sports (great!)

PS3 - ""

X360 - ""

Wii-U - ""

PS4 - ""

XBone - ""

Switch - ""

SignOfZeta · 08/28/2017, 02:51 PM

Combat was the Wii Sports of its day. Everyone got it for free and almost no other game ended up providing as much genuine fun.

xcrement5x · 08/28/2017, 03:25 PM

Quote from: Lost Monkey on 08/28/2017, 02:46 PMDefinitely the best pack-in set of all time.
Sega CD - ? was there a pack in at launch? I thought Sewer Shark came with model 2?

Model 1 Sega CD came with Sol Feace as a pack in game, it also came with Hot Hits/Rock Paintings combo pack. Hot Hits was a CD sampler, Rock Paintings was a CD+G disc.

The model 2 SegaCD had a number of pack ins but Sewer Shark was the big one.

QuoteDreamcast - "" (demo disk)

Lol, there was also the Web Browser disc.

Gypsy · 08/28/2017, 03:44 PM

Dreamcast has some sports and Sonic pack-ins. Saturn I know had Virtua Cop/Daytona USA/Virtua Fighter 2 because my system box has that on there and I have that pack-in. Probably some others as well.

CrackTiger · 08/28/2017, 03:45 PM

The model 1 Sega-CD came with Shermatlock, Sol Feace and CD versions of Streets of Rage, Golden Axe, Revenge of Shinobi and Columns.

Tbe CDX came with Sonic CD, Ecco CD and a 5-in-1 game collection disc that has the mentioned titles plus Super Monaco GP.

The Saturn had sets at the pre-launch with either Virtua Fighter or Panzer Dragoon, VF Remix during the Playstation launch and within a year included Virtua Fighter 2, Sega Rally and Virtua Cop.

Gypsy · 08/28/2017, 03:52 PM

Yeah Virtua Fighter, I remember that now.

Gamecube had a bunch too. A shit ton. My first Cube was the MP one that was $100 at retail but I for sure remember a bunch of Mario and Zelda ones. Plus Pokemon XD Gale of Darkness.

NecroPhile · 08/28/2017, 04:01 PM

Quote from: johnnykonami on 08/28/2017, 01:46 PMI might have told this story before, sorry for the repeat if so! I saved up for the Duo the year it came out, but since I had to go to school during the day back then, my sister went to pick it up for me so I could have it waiting for me when I got home. The guy at Babbages (I think, or Electronics Boutique, one of the two) sent her home with a Sega CD. I don't know if he was an undercover FEKA agent or not, but I am betting. I didn't even have a genesis at the time, but even if I did, I still would have sent it back I wanted the Duo so bad! We exchanged it a day or two later and to this day I have fond memories of every single pack-in game. I lusted after Ys in the promotional Duo World for months before, so that was the main thing. But Gate of Thunder, Ninja Spirit and Bomberman were all amazing. I already had played and owned on Hu both Bonk games, but with those included it's easily the best pack-in set of all time in my eyes.

Man, screw that FEKA bastard for steering your sister wrong.

GoldenWheels · 08/28/2017, 04:31 PM

Quote from: Lost Monkey on 08/28/2017, 02:46 PMSMS - Hang On / Safari Hunt (nope)

Was Hang On/Astro Warrior ever the pack in? Maybe that was UK. I think that's actually a pretty good pack in if so. SMS Hang On is pretty fun, as is Astro Warrior (for what it is).

But yeah ain't nobody missing Safari Hunt.

LostFlunky · 08/28/2017, 05:26 PM

I was going for launch only - otherwise I would have had to list every special bundle that has come out for every system since the Atari..

SignOfZeta · 08/28/2017, 05:27 PM

Quote from: Gypsy on 08/28/2017, 03:52 PMYeah Virtua Fighter, I remember that now.

Gamecube had a bunch too. A shit ton. My first Cube was the MP one that was $100 at retail but I for sure remember a bunch of Mario and Zelda ones. Plus Pokemon XD Gale of Darkness.

I think the main definition of a "pack-in" is really "pack-in at launch". The Cube was launched with nothing, like most systems now. The Saturn only gained pack-ins when they saw they were struggling.

The Genesis was packed in with Sonic, Sonic 2, Streets of Rage 2, Ecco, Lion King and whatever else but the "Genesis pack-in" is (sadly) Altered Beast.

Gypsy · 08/28/2017, 05:54 PM

Most systems have fuck all at launch. But yeah if we are talking launch pack-ins that is completely different and by far the Duo had the best.

CrackTiger · 08/28/2017, 06:22 PM

In

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 08/28/2017, 05:27 PM
Quote from: Gypsy on 08/28/2017, 03:52 PMYeah Virtua Fighter, I remember that now.

Gamecube had a bunch too. A shit ton. My first Cube was the MP one that was $100 at retail but I for sure remember a bunch of Mario and Zelda ones. Plus Pokemon XD Gale of Darkness.
I think the main definition of a "pack-in" is really "pack-in at launch". The Cube was launched with nothing, like most systems now. The Saturn only gained pack-ins when they saw they were struggling.

The Genesis was packed in with Sonic, Sonic 2, Streets of Rage 2, Ecco, Lion King and whatever else but the "Genesis pack-in" is (sadly) Altered Beast.

The Saturn launched in North America with Virtua Fighter as a pack-in and the game was never sold at retail. It was covered heavily in the media, as the Playstation couldn't save games or play anything out of the box.

SignOfZeta · 08/28/2017, 06:59 PM

Ah, I forgot about that...that's how good the SS version of VF was.

Now that I warm up the ol memory banks I remember the quest to make a decent port of an arcade game that was barely playable on 16 and 32 bit systems from Sega as well as the slightly better but still pretty much naff Virtua Fighter Remix and the "worst of all" JP Saturn VF.

Now VF is actually decent and nobody cares. Things are weird.

Michirin9801 · 08/29/2017, 01:06 AM

Quote from: Lost Monkey on 08/28/2017, 02:46 PMTurboDuo - Ys I&II, Gate of Thunder, Bonk's Adventure, Bonk's Revenge, Bomberman and random game!

DAAAMN!!
Super Mario World is my favourite game of all time, but with this many games of such high quality it's really hard to compete... I'm so conflicted...
My favourite game alone? Or 6-7 games (depending on whether you count Ys 1+2 as 1 game or 2 games) which are all brilliant on their own?
(Also depends on the random title, if you got Ghost Manor or Addams Family for example it would really suck)

You'd certainly get more bang for your buck with the TurboDuo, at least back then...

TheClash603 · 08/29/2017, 08:14 AM

Virtua Fighter 2 was already out in arcades when the Saturn released and it trumped the first game in almost every way. Virtua Fighter 2 on Saturn is a solid release that is still playable to this day.

It is odd they even decided to put out the original Virtua Fighter, seems like it would detract from sales of the sequel if anything. Even more odd is they acknowledged it was crap when they did Remix. They should've just packed in part 2 at this time and forgot about the original game. Remix wasn't a cash grab either, because even though retail copies exist, it's so hard to find the retail version that Sega must have made near zero of them.

NES, SNES, Game Boy, and Duo all had great pack-ins.

DragonmasterDan · 08/29/2017, 08:47 AM

Quote from: TheClash603 on 08/29/2017, 08:14 AMVirtua Fighter 2 was already out in arcades when the Saturn released and it trumped the first game in almost every way. Virtua Fighter 2 on Saturn is a solid release that is still playable to this day.

It is odd they even decided to put out the original Virtua Fighter, seems like it would detract from sales of the sequel if anything. Even more odd is they acknowledged it was crap when they did Remix. They should've just packed in part 2 at this time and forgot about the original game. Remix wasn't a cash grab either, because even though retail copies exist, it's so hard to find the retail version that Sega must have made near zero of them.

Yeah, the 32X port of VF 1 was better than the non-Remix Saturn version.

LostFlunky · 08/29/2017, 11:23 AM

Sega made some breakthroughs in programming the 2nd batch of games (Sega Rally, VF2), so they went back and redid VF-Remix. I wish they had redone Daytona USA with the improved VDP routines, rather than the awful Daytona CCE that got released later...

SignOfZeta · 08/29/2017, 12:00 PM

Making a 3D game back then was really really hard. VF1 has some interesting history behind it and it kinda leads into Virtua On, which is a great game. While 3D graphically they are pretty much 1D as fighters. Elevation only has meaning within a move so even though there are three levels to hit (like SF2) you are always chained to a line. All your moves advance or retreat along that axis. This is because they couldn't figure out how to do anything more. The game is based around how long the line is between you and the opponent. Obviously any jump in VF1 is a mistake.

VF1, like a lot of high end arcade games, was based on the hardware. We were essentially beta testers as they tried to get this almost-a-game up and running on variously massively weaker pieces of hardware that weren't much the Model 1 that VF1 was based around. Somebody must have cared but it wasn't me.

VF2 and Megamix both rule though. In general 3D fighters can suck it but I like these.

xcrement5x · 08/29/2017, 12:29 PM

Quote from: CrackTiger on 08/28/2017, 03:45 PMThe model 1 Sega-CD came with Shermatlock, Sol Feace and CD versions of Streets of Rage, Golden Axe, Revenge of Shinobi and Columns.

Tbe CDX came with Sonic CD, Ecco CD and a 5-in-1 game collection disc that has the mentioned titles plus Super Monaco GP.

Good call on that! I can't believe I blanked on the Sherlock/4-in1 set as well, it even came with a cool newspaper for the game.

Also, I thought one of the main reasons they committed to giving out Remix in the US is because the original launch version is just SOOO bad. But Remix probably wasn't very well promoted at all since VF2 was around the corner.

CrackTiger · 08/29/2017, 01:42 PM

In Japan they did the Remix version just because of how quickly they figured out how to effectively use the hardware after publishing the initial port. Since VF was massively popular there, they just straight up sold it. Even without the textures and resolution, the animation set it apart from Tekken, which looked ridiculous even when it was new.

exodus · 08/29/2017, 01:50 PM

Quote from: guest on 08/28/2017, 06:22 PMThe Saturn launched in North America with Virtua Fighter as a pack-in and the game was never sold at retail. It was covered heavily in the media, as the Playstation couldn't save games or play anything out of the box.

But that version of VF was the one that was so hastily put together they had to re-release it as Virtua Fighter Remix, right? They sent it out for free to everyone with new jim lee art on the cover. I interviewed him once, and never asked about that. whoops.

SignOfZeta · 08/29/2017, 01:53 PM

I think the JP release of VF1 is even worse than the US one.

LostFlunky · 08/29/2017, 02:02 PM

Quote from: exodus on 08/29/2017, 01:50 PM
Quote from: guest on 08/28/2017, 06:22 PMThe Saturn launched in North America with Virtua Fighter as a pack-in and the game was never sold at retail. It was covered heavily in the media, as the Playstation couldn't save games or play anything out of the box.
But that version of VF was the one that was so hastily put together they had to re-release it as Virtua Fighter Remix, right? They sent it out for free to everyone with new jim lee art on the cover. I interviewed him once, and never asked about that. whoops.

Go back and look at some video footage - Saturn VF was very close to the arcade, and was very highly rated on release. There are just some texture glitches and the backgrounds move in a jerky way occasionally. VF -Remix is not closer to the arcade VF - it is more like VF with VF2 textures...

SignOfZeta · 08/29/2017, 03:34 PM

VF1 on Saturn is not that close to the arcade. I hate the game period but the Saturn version is slightly worse looking than the already terrible looking arcade version. It also ran at the same "medium res" that other AM2 games ran on so the resolution alone is a big difference. Then there is all the disappearing shit and the backgrounds jumping around.

It's good like how Mortal Kombat for Genesis is good, good enough for people who like Mortal Kombat but for VF fans...or even Sega themselves who clearly just needed the thing done by a date, and then kept remaking the thing, it isn't that good. Even the press at the time sometimes seemed to prefer the 32X version.

VF2 on the other hand is missing a LOT from the arcade (more than VF1, since VF1 had super minimal graphics) but it still does a much better job port-wise. It's also a WAY better game than the first.

xcrement5x · 08/29/2017, 03:45 PM

Quote from: exodus on 08/29/2017, 01:50 PM
Quote from: CrackTiger on 08/28/2017, 06:22 PMThe Saturn launched in North America with Virtua Fighter as a pack-in and the game was never sold at retail. It was covered heavily in the media, as the Playstation couldn't save games or play anything out of the box.
But that version of VF was the one that was so hastily put together they had to re-release it as Virtua Fighter Remix, right? They sent it out for free to everyone with new jim lee art on the cover. I interviewed him once, and never asked about that. whoops.

This was my understanding as well. VF Remix distribution in the US was initially an "oops, that was bad I hope you'll forgive us" type thing. Eventually it did have a bit wider release in the form of a full longbox version, but the most prevalent release out there is the CD case version which looks very similar to the JP release.

SignOfZeta · 08/29/2017, 04:24 PM

I never thought of Remix as any kind of apology. I assumed it was just like, "Hey, while working on VF2 we were messing around in the lab and found out a way to make VF 1.5. It isn't really worth paying for since you already have the game so we'll let you have it for a reduced price."

It was also released for STV so...I guess don't really get it either. ?!?

seieienbu · 08/29/2017, 05:21 PM

Did the NES at first release even come with Mario/Duck Hunt? The NES Action Set definitely did; that was the model I got back in 87 or so and the light Zapper was Orange by then. That said, the first NES sets I ever saw were a year or two earlier and they had R.O.B. with them unless my memories are betraying me.

GohanX · 08/29/2017, 05:31 PM

The first US sets had ROB and a zapper and came with Gyromite and Duck Hunt.

seieienbu · 08/29/2017, 05:40 PM

Quote from: GohanX on 08/29/2017, 05:31 PMThe first US sets had ROB and a zapper and came with Gyromite and Duck Hunt.

Yeah, that's more in line with what I was remembering. A friend of mine bought SMB iirc shortly after NES was released. I vividly remember his copy not having Duck Hunt on it.

LostFlunky · 08/29/2017, 05:45 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 08/29/2017, 03:34 PMVF1 on Saturn is not that close to the arcade. I hate the game period but the Saturn version is slightly worse looking than the already terrible looking arcade version. It also ran at the same "medium res" that other AM2 games ran on so the resolution alone is a big difference. Then there is all the disappearing shit and the backgrounds jumping around.

It's good like how Mortal Kombat for Genesis is good, good enough for people who like Mortal Kombat but for VF fans...or even Sega themselves who clearly just needed the thing done by a date, and then kept remaking the thing, it isn't that good. Even the press at the time sometimes seemed to prefer the 32X version.

VF2 on the other hand is missing a LOT from the arcade (more than VF1, since VF1 had super minimal graphics) but it still does a much better job port-wise. It's also a WAY better game than the first.

Gotta hook up my Saturn tonight... jonesin for some VF...

SignOfZeta · 08/29/2017, 07:19 PM

Man, looking around VF1/VF Remix was released in a lot of different versions. I'm seeing multiple JP versions, before and after XBand implementation, the version that came packed with the "100" Saturns, the STV version. I'm not sure about Euro but in the US there are versions for Genesis, 32X, and Saturn (GG obviously doesn't count) and of course the JAMMA which saw many updates, Im assuming. Also: Winblows.

Who actually played VF1 this much and why didn't they play VF3-5?!?

CrackTiger · 08/29/2017, 07:46 PM

I tried VF3 - 5, but they aren't as fun and the aesthetics are kinda soulless compared to the first two. The first gane, like Virtua Racing have charm to them, as Sega went for a stylized look instead of boring modelling that attempts realism. The animation of the fighters is what feels natural, even when exagerated. The style of the first couple games has the 3D equivalent of the appeal of <16-bit pixelart. VF3 was caught in that awkward phase of 3D evolution and unfirtunately aimed for realism. VF4 looked nice and has a noticeable style, but was too flashy and felt like it was trying to compete with the DOA series. I have the VF1-style bonus game for it. That is much more appealing. I bought VF5 and tried it, but it just felt like a waste of time, like the changes to moves and extra little things wete tacked on just to resell the same game with a new coat of paint.

I didn't get VF1 Remix until later on and don't have nostalgia for it, but it's a cool tech demo (high res so early on) abd the same solid game is underneath. I'd still rather play VF32X more than anything after VF2.

SignOfZeta · 08/29/2017, 10:22 PM

BBZZZZTTT!

The correct answer is "because they switched to Tekken".

Thank you for playing.

I agree, VF3 has some of that uncanny valley shit going on. VF4 I'll defend but I have to admit I didn't like it enough to even try VF5 once.

My personal choice for 90s Sega fighting nostalgia is the DC version of Fighting Vipers 2. I love that thing.

seieienbu · 08/30/2017, 09:35 PM

I've never been much of a fan of the VF series. VF2 is probably the one that I played the most but even when it was new on the Saturn it never really worked for me. My biggest complaint with the franchise is that so many things feel arbitrarily difficult for sake of being difficult.

A bit over a decade ago, VF4 was at Evo. My friends and I had watched the finals and thought the game looked awesome. We picked it up and played it a bunch for a couple of months. The Evo DVDs came out at some point so we bought them, watched them, and then realized the things we were doing weren't remotely as cool or interesting as what we were watching. Our interest petered out after that.

Years pass, I keep playing fighting games, I get better, and new VF games came out. With the fifth one I'm reminded of how I wanted to play VF4 back when so I invest some time and find out more about the technical nature of things like how damn near everything requires 1 frame precision, you have to do multiple option selected throw techs all the time to protect yourself, a couple of others that escape my mind atm. There also wasn't exactly a lot of local players when, at the same time, I could be playing SF4 with any of the 30+ people that would show up to weekly tournaments. So I didn't stick with VF.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 08/29/2017, 10:22 PMBBZZZZTTT!

The correct answer is "because they switched to Tekken".

I could probably go off on this for quite a while. I don't think Tekken is any easier than VF in the end but when you're getting started? A lot of Tekken is readily apparent and you can understand what you did wrong by seeing it. In VF that didn't seem true. I couldn't just see a combo and copy it; combos were super hard and required a bunch of effort. Doing the things that I saw better players doing weren't feasible for me when I was actively trying to play the game.