Turbo games you should like that you don't. My example (Forgotten Worlds)

[DeshDildo]

I never could get into Lords of Thunder. I traded it for some psp stuff back when that seemed to be a good idea.

More of a slow jazz type of guy eh?  Lords soundtrack alone makes me want to kick asses all day everyday.

We all know Nulltard makes questionable life choices so I'll give him a pass on the DE stuff.

Mine would have to be the Valis series.  I don't hate them and the presentation is great but the gameplay overall to me is meh.

[Pfloydguy2]

Just curious on your thoughts of Castlevania 3 then.

Plays like crap, just like its predecessors.

I'm more than a little shocked by this.  I can understand if somebody didn't like the original Castlevania, as it's a little rough even with its classic status.  But Castlevania 3 is fantastic in my opinion.  I have to wonder:  If you think Castlevania plays like crap, do you feel the same way about the NES Ninja Gaidens (and Ninja Ryukenden on PCE)?  I've always felt their gameplay is nearly identical to classic Castlevania, just sped up a bit.  It's all about finding a rhythm between moving, dodging, and attacking.  Once you get that rhythm down, gameplay becomes a beautiful dance, almost a zen-like experience.  I include the original NES Castlevania with this gameplay style, but it's definitely a rougher experience than CV3.

[esteban]

Just curious on your thoughts of Castlevania 3 then.

Plays like crap, just like its predecessors.

I'm more than a little shocked by this.  I can understand if somebody didn't like the original Castlevania, as it's a little rough even with its classic status.  But Castlevania 3 is fantastic in my opinion.  I have to wonder:  If you think Castlevania plays like crap, do you feel the same way about the NES Ninja Gaidens (and Ninja Ryukenden on PCE)?  I've always felt their gameplay is nearly identical to classic Castlevania, just sped up a bit.  It's all about finding a rhythm between moving, dodging, and attacking.  Once you get that rhythm down, gameplay becomes a beautiful dance, almost a zen-like experience.  I include the original NES Castlevania with this gameplay style, but it's definitely a rougher experience than CV3.

I concur about Castlevania 3 (a game that really is a gem on the NES/Famicom, IMHO). 

Don't worry, Old_Rover thinks Legendary Axe is broken too (it might be clumsy, but it isn't a fatal flaw) and as a result, he misses out on one of the best PCE/TG-16 games.

Whilst I understand folks being frustrated with Ninja Gaiden NES, there are only a few genuinely  "cheap" moments in the game. The overwhelming majority of the game is fun and viable. I don't think the Castlevanias or Legenday Axe suffer from an abundance of  "cheap" moments or flawed mechanics/collision detection.

I easily die in the later levels of Ninja Gaiden as well as Adventure Island... I don't think that challenging platform if is inherently bad.

[CrackTiger]

Literally every sword slash is a genuine cheap moment in Ninja Gaiden NES, as striking an enemy with your sword does not affect them and instead you take damage from the enemy running through you.

Most legendary classics, particularly anything associated with Nintendo, are blindly praised as flawless by the same people who unfairly criticize non-Nintendo/legendary classics for the tiniest imperfections or anything that doesn't fit within their predetermined cookie cutter idea of how games are supposed to play and must fit very specific genres.

They could just accept games as-is and be honest with themselves about how any genuine enjoyment they derive comes from their compromise of working around the broken or poorly executed aspects of these games. Instead they tend to dismiss comments from people prefering non-gilded games, particularly rival titles (like Ninja Gaidens for non-Nintendo platforms).

[seieienbu]

Most legendary classics, particularly anything associated with Nintendo, are blindly praised as flawless by the same people who unfairly criticize non-Nintendo/legendary classics for the tiniest imperfections or anything that doesn't fit within their predetermined cookie cutter idea of how games are supposed to play and must fit very specific genres.

They could just accept games as-is and be honest with themselves about how any genuine enjoyment they derive comes from their compromise of working around the broken or poorly executed aspects of these games. Instead they tend to dismiss comments from people prefering non-gilded games, particularly rival titles (like Ninja Gaidens for non-Nintendo platforms).

I showed Neutopia to a friend of mine who's a Zelda fan and he flew off the handle hating on it.  Neutopia isn't exactly my favorite Turbo game but I still enjoyed running through it.  Hilariously, I think Zelda 1 on the NES is super overrated.  I'd say I enjoy it about as much as Neutopia, honestly.  Listening to him rail on the game as if it was this ridiculously terrible game while he dotes on and on about NES Zelda though?  Quality entertainment.

[GoldenWheels]

They could just accept games as-is and be honest with themselves about how any genuine enjoyment they derive comes from their compromise of working around the broken or poorly executed aspects of these games. Instead they tend to dismiss comments from people prefering non-gilded games, particularly rival titles (like Ninja Gaidens for non-Nintendo platforms).

I know what you are saying and think it is a valid point, but maybe a bad example. If someone told me they preferred the PCE version (which I think is the only one that is actually the "same" game, could be wrong there) , I'd have to ask them why, honestly. I'd think the NES version was leagues better even without my Nintendo tramp stamp.

[Keith Courage]

They could just accept games as-is and be honest with themselves about how any genuine enjoyment they derive comes from their compromise of working around the broken or poorly executed aspects of these games. Instead they tend to dismiss comments from people prefering non-gilded games, particularly rival titles (like Ninja Gaidens for non-Nintendo platforms).

I know what you are saying and think it is a valid point, but maybe a bad example. If someone told me they preferred the PCE version (which I think is the only one that is actually the "same" game, could be wrong there) , I'd have to ask them why, honestly. I'd think the NES version was leagues better even without my Nintendo tramp stamp.

I didn't grow up with the Nintendo version of Ninja Gaiden so I have no Nostalgia for it. With this in mind I prefer the pce version of the game. If I compare the two, I can't stand  how washed out the colors in the Nintendo version Look compared to the PC engine.

this might be because the TurboGrafx was my Nintendo growing up. Meaning if colors don't look as good as the TurboGrafx they can end up looking subpar to me.

[GoldenWheels]

I didn't grow up with the Nintendo version of Ninja Gaiden so I have no Nostalgia for it. With this in mind I prefer the pce version of the game. If I compare the two, I can't stand  how washed out the colors in the Nintendo version Look compared to the PC engine.

this might be because the TurboGrafx was my Nintendo growing up. Meaning if colors don't look as good as the TurboGrafx they can end up looking subpar to me.

Huh. I can't stand the scrolling on the PCE one (which granted doesn't affect every level equally, but it is majorly distracting where it exists) and I think the NES cutscenes and graphics are better overall (surprising to me as I expect the PCE visuals to be notably better, maybe that's my mistake).

You're prob right about the color but I'm reverse of you in childhood systems so NES color to me seems ok.

[GoldenWheels]

I gotta stop hitting quote instead of edit.

[esteban]

Literally every sword slash is a genuine cheap moment in Ninja Gaiden NES, as striking an enemy with your sword does not affect them and instead you take damage from the enemy running through you.

Most legendary classics, particularly anything associated with Nintendo, are blindly praised as flawless by the same people who unfairly criticize non-Nintendo/legendary classics for the tiniest imperfections or anything that doesn't fit within their predetermined cookie cutter idea of how games are supposed to play and must fit very specific genres.

They could just accept games as-is and be honest with themselves about how any genuine enjoyment they derive comes from their compromise of working around the broken or poorly executed aspects of these games. Instead they tend to dismiss comments from people prefering non-gilded games, particularly rival titles (like Ninja Gaidens for non-Nintendo platforms).

Do you think Legendary Axe is broken? I don't. I don't think Ninja Gaiden is broken, either.

You can say the sword slash is cheap, but I rarely consider it a problem....I have a "real" gripe with the game (see below).

The sword slash is not really a problem in Ninja Gaiden. Every game has its rules.

As someone stated earlier, once you learn the "rules" of the hit box/collision detection/______ for a game, minor adjustments are (often) all that is required to fully enjoy the game.

Indeed, I would argue that it is much more productive and meaningful to think of things such as "hitbox" or "collision detection" as a continuum....we, then, the folks who play games, decide where to draw the line between acceptable vs. unacceptable.

Players intuitively learn this when playing a game...they strike sooner, jump sooner....or strike later, jump later.

Ninja Gaiden, despite its flaws, is a totally fun, enjoyable game...save for a few genuinely cheap moments (usually requiring a spin attack or fire magic to pass without frustration).

MY REAL GRIPE WITH NINJA GAIDEN: The crazy moments in the game that involve very challenging platforming with awkward placement/spawning of enemies and require a bit of strategy (make sure you have magic) instead of blindly running forward and jumping.

Since these cheap moments in Ninja Gaiden are not about the sword slashes (but rather platforming + enemy placement/respawning), I am not sure if I strengthened my argument or strengthened your argument, ha!

[CrackTiger]

Night Creatures is fun and I have had no problem playing through it since I figured out how to, but people who refuse to still dismiss it as garbage.

I love the core gameplay and overall idea and style of Legendary Axe, as well as some of its stage design. Some of the stage design, particularly that stage with the pits ruins the game overall. Some of the enemy patterns/behaviours coupled with hit points 10+ times too high are the biggest problem. You shouldn't have to figure out a very strict pattern to repeat and then still have it take ten minutes to kill an enemy.

Just like most of the early Mega Man games, Legendary Axe is a great game buried in poor layout design. A hack laying things out different and enemies with appropriate health and positioning/patterns could be be as good as games get. As-is it's a mixed bag with a lot of great content and too much broken content.

[JoshTurboTrollX]

So, I've thought about this thread for a while, and I'm finally able to pinpoint the game that everyone seems to love, that I just can't quite grasp (besides SideArms).  That game is Splatterhouse. I've just never really been impressed by it.  I think it's average, and doesn't really do alot that other games hadn't done better since.  It probably has some to do with me having not played it until lke '94, so I was already a bit numb to the whole gory/adult themed games with MK and the Splatterhouse sequels already out.

But yeah, never really fell in love with Splatterhouse....

[esteban]

So, I've thought about this thread for a while, and I'm finally able to pinpoint the game that everyone seems to love, that I just can't quite grasp (besides SideArms).  That game is Splatterhouse. I've just never really been impressed by it.  I think it's average, and doesn't really do alot that other games hadn't done better since.  It probably has some to do with me having not played it until lke '94, so I was already a bit numb to the whole gory/adult themed games with MK and the Splatterhouse sequels already out.

But yeah, never really fell in love with Splatterhouse....

I'll reply to CrackTiger's post later on the train, but concerning Splatterhouse:

It really is an average game—not particularly amazing.

However, a bunch of *minor* factors help elevate it *above average* for me (treat these *admittedly minor* factors as multipliers...that's the difference between your perspective and mine...seemingly trivial attributes combine to reach a critical mass):

1) we were starved for games in TG-16 library when this came out, and especially starved for this sort of genre (whatever it is)

2) despite generic tropes, it has a LOT of personality and twisted creativity, especially since this predates a lot of games to follow horror themes  (mirror image attacking you, shotgun, puke, abstract paintings ripping from canvas, "Sluggy")

3) it is so satisfying to splat enemies, slice enemies, slide into enemies. CLUNKY at times? Sure! But it still remains visceral and satisfying to SUCCESSFULLY ATTACK

4) the game does a good job building a mood and atmosphere! This is very hard to pull off (IMHO)

5) the jump scare surprises, in general

6) death of girlfriend and her haunting you = awesome (not simply that this occurs, but the *execution* is very, very well done and convincing)

7) I could go on and on

BOTTOM LINE: an average, clunky, too-short game with a few key attributes really elevates it above mediocre for me!!

Disclaimer: I love Splatterhouse

[seieienbu]

Splatterhouse was a shockingly cool game when I first saw it at an arcade, Games Galore.  My parents coming up, seeing the game, and not letting me finish my game and making me leave?  That made me want the game more.  The fact that the home port was on the Turbo added to the mystique of both the game and the system. 

It may play a little bit clunky, but nobody can tell me that the dark and evil mood that the game generates isn't amazing.  This holds particularly true when compared with other games of the era.

[esteban]

It may play a little bit clunky, but nobody can tell me that the dark and evil mood that the game generates isn't amazing.  This holds particularly true when compared with other games of the era.

Agreed.

And... I wish I had a chance to play this in the arcade. I HAVE NEVER SEEN AN ACTUAL ARCADE CAB, EVER.

Same goes for Sidearms (another fave of mine).

It just boggles my mind that I missed out on lots of games despite the fact that I actively sought them out at every arcade, skating rink, bowling alley, deli, pizzeria, laundromat, etc. etc.

It didn't matter how hard I searched, they just weren't available at the places I went to.

[seieienbu]

Aside from when I was a kid, I was at a vintage game convention in Dallas last year where they had one.  Those were the only times I've ever seen it.  It's on the short list of games I'd like to get for my arcade but that's another story.

[retro junkie]

SideArms and SideArms Special are both poo.

That is all.

UNACCEPTABLE.

I stand with you esteban!

[Pfloydguy2]

They could just accept games as-is and be honest with themselves about how any genuine enjoyment they derive comes from their compromise of working around the broken or poorly executed aspects of these games. Instead they tend to dismiss comments from people prefering non-gilded games, particularly rival titles (like Ninja Gaidens for non-Nintendo platforms).

I know what you are saying and think it is a valid point, but maybe a bad example. If someone told me they preferred the PCE version (which I think is the only one that is actually the "same" game, could be wrong there) , I'd have to ask them why, honestly. I'd think the NES version was leagues better even without my Nintendo tramp stamp.

Not to split hairs, but the Atari Lynx port of Ninja Gaiden 3 is the "same" as the NES version.  To its detriment, as the graphics were just scaled down instead of being redrawn completely for the lower-res screen.  Other than the attack and jump buttons being irreversibly swapped in the Lynx port, the controls are perfect and the gameplay, enemy placement, and level designs are identical to the NES original.  The worst of it is the soundtrack.  It was great on the NES, but it was butchered on the Lynx and does a huge disservice to the port.  I am a huge Lynx fanboy, and I love the NES Ninja Gaiden trilogy, but I can't bring myself to like the Lynx port of Ninja Gaiden 3.  I can't see how anyone who wasn't already a fan of the NES version could get much enjoyment out of the Lynx one.

On the topic of NES NG vs. PCE NG, I adored the NES version as a kid, and my glasses are more rose-colored for it than probably any other single game.  But I was overjoyed to learn about the PCE version 20 years or so ago - I always enjoy exploring different "takes" on my favorite things.  I've only played about halfway through the PCE version, but the choppy scrolling is really distracting to me.  It's a shame, as the graphics overall are much nicer than the NES and SNES versions.

(Sorry, I probably shouldn't have even mentioned the SNES version...I just took the whole conversation down a few notches.)

I don't care for what I've heard of the soundtrack in the PCE version, but I can't say that's due to anything more than nostalgia.  There's actually a recent thread at the Castlevania Dungeon forums in which the topic creator tries to show that the PCE version's level 1 theme is superior to the NES version's.

[PukeSter]

Some of the same people on this forum who blast Ninja Gaiden on pce, tend to also elevate Ys III. A bit irony there.

I always liked pce Ninja Gaiden, especially since birds do less damage and other enemies are a bit less aggressive. The scrolling is bad yes (programmed by the Chinese), but there are plenty of indoor levels that look normal too.

Unlike other ports such as Dynastic Hero or Bonk's Adventure on the Amiga, the new soundtrack in Ninja Gaiden is still up to par even if it is different.

[CrackTiger]

Some of the same people on this forum who blast Ninja Gaiden on pce, tend to also elevate Ys III. A bit irony there.

I always liked pce Ninja Gaiden, especially since birds do less damage and other enemies are a bit less aggressive. The scrolling is bad yes (programmed by the Chinese), but there are plenty of indoor levels that look normal too.

Unlike other ports such as Dynastic Hero or Bonk's Adventure on the Amiga, the new soundtrack in Ninja Gaiden is still up to par even if it is different.

Are you just judging two games by choppy dynamic tile parallax alone?

Ys III is the opposite scenario of Ninja Gaiden. The choppy dynamic tiles are the original artistic vision and it's the later ports that are different. Ninja Gaiden suffers from smooth 60fps scrolling with pockets of incorrectly implemented dynamic tile parallax. Turbo Ys III has 100% correctly implemented dynamic tile sections with a few brief smooth scrolling sections. You don't get the jarring juxtaposition of Ninja Gaiden at all.

The gameplay of Ys III was designed from the ground up around the framerate of the computer versions. The Turbo version makes everything smoother by moving fast. Separate from the solid control/collision (by Ys III standards) and how the choppy tiles affect visuals, it's an adventure/RPG, not action game. There's much more to it outside of the action portion or the dynamic tiles. Ys I & II isn't in the same boat as Ninja Gaiden either.

[schweaty]

Parasol Stars for me.  Don't get me wrong, it looks great.  I just have never gotten into single screen platformers.  I think it's just a little before my time.  When Super Mario Bros came out, it literally changed the game forever for me.

As far a Ninja Gaiden goes.  I like the PCE and NES versions.  The PCE version does look better, but it's not a graphics leap like the PCE version of Double Dragon II was.  For me, the difference is the music.  The NES version is one of the all time great soundtracks.   Fast and frenzied, it fits the gameplay perfectly.

[VmprHntrD]

I know in Ys circles Ys III often gets bashed since it was the bastard child of the family not being like the others as a side scrolling platformer but I've always enjoyed it.  It's a little strange but it handles well enough.  Maybe I shouldn't like it as it's cool to hate on it, but I think it's fine.

[esteban]

I know in Ys circles Ys III often gets bashed since it was the bastard child of the family not being like the others as a side scrolling platformer but I've always enjoyed it.  It's a little strange but it handles well enough.  Maybe I shouldn't like it as it's cool to hate on it, but I think it's fine.

It is a totally fun game.

[Psycho Punch]

All Sidearms HYPERDYNE bashers: suck my left one.

[esteban]

^ Agreed!

[PapaSmurf]

SideArms and SideArms Special are both poo.

That is all.

Spot on!

All Sidearms HYPERDYNE bashers: suck my left one.

Aww hell no!

^ Agreed!

Aww hell no again.

Am I in Bizzaro Earth or something?  I had no idea so many people actually liked this game.  Back in the day, I convinced a friend to get SideArms for his birthday.  It was a Capcom game, so it had to be good, right?  Nope.  We played it and were so disappointed.  The tunes were nice, but that's it.  The game is repetitive and boring.  I clearly remember saying, many times, "didn't I just kill this thing in the last level."  And "this spinny circle thing again???"

Oh yeah...  The game isn't even two players!  We couldn't even use our new Turbo Taps.

Ugh..  Funny thing is that I still have my friend's SideArms Turbo Chip.  I guess he didn't care for it either or he would have asked for it back 28 or so years ago.   And I haven't played it since!  Maybe I'll give it another chance.  To be continued......

[ccovell]

We played it and were so disappointed.  The tunes were nice, but that's it.  The game is repetitive and boring.  I clearly remember saying, many times, "didn't I just kill this thing in the last level."

Yeah, Super Mario Bros. sucks in the same way.   
2nd level is always underground and 4th level is always some dumb, empty, boring castle.  And the boss never changes.  How could people like this??   

[PapaSmurf]

Yeah, Super Mario Bros. sucks in the same way.   
2nd level is always underground and 4th level is always some dumb, empty, boring castle.  And the boss never changes.  How could people like this??   

My levity must of touched a nerve.     It's only my opinion.

Mario platformers have several qualities, some addictive, to them that make them popular such as finding secrets, beating the clock, timing jumps, speed running, etc.  I wouldn't compare these two vastly different games.

Anyone here think SideArms > R-Type?

[Phase]

yeah I mean Sidearms isn't the greatest but its a decent game. I think a lot of people don't know you can switch weapons in the pause menu. Took me a while to figure that out bitd

[gilbert]

It was a Capcom game, so it had to be good, right?  Nope. 
...
The game is repetitive and boring.  I clearly remember saying, many times, "didn't I just kill this thing in the last level."  And "this spinny circle thing again???"

Capcom was actually known for many repetitive games though, such as Exed Exes and 1942. Even the much improved 1943 and 1943 Kai weren't offering much variations either. (I think the 19xx series got more variations much later, when they decided to ditch all the realistic overtones.) At least SideArms offered more variations in the settings(a lot of weapon options, vertically scrolling stages, shooting at either sides, etc.), and mecha combination! Though Nichibutsu games offered more crazy combinations.

I'm a bit biased though, as having nostalgic memories playing a lot the arcade version(and not so well, couldn't even get past the second stage) and the LOADS of Anime plagiarismsreferences in it certainly helped (that Akiman being part of the graphics team could be a reason), which people not getting into ANIME in that era might not understand.

The PCE version (actually the CD "Special" version, which is the only version I own) does have a number of features compromised, such as having to pause when changing weapons, no backgrounds in some of the boss fights(those wheels, actually) and (obviously) lack of 2-player mode, but it's still a mostly accurate port, which was as close as you could get for console conversions at that time (I think all the artworks were lifted directly from the arcade version, so they're just pixel perfect). Many of the changes are minor at best, if you accept them. The need to pause when changing weapons actually makes the game easier and the lack of 2-player mode isn't that seriously a downgrade, as you'd like to keep your mecha combined at all time anyway (I think it's actually a design flaw to leave one of the players almost useless in the combined state, but not being able to play with the beta robot is certainly missed, and that you couldn't have beta-alpha combination, which some people claimed was a more powerful form in the arcade version). At least I could beat this version (but not the Before Christ mode, which I personally think is a trainwreck for changing almost everything to make the game nearly unplayable, but it's just free stuff so I couldn't complain) so I love this version even more. (And yeah, even though I don't own the Hucard version, I think the new stage one tune is nice, though why they decided to add this was a mystery.)

[PukeSter]

1943 kai is a really nice port, and the original stages are baller as fuck. Too bad the laser is so overpowered (you can upgrade it twice)

I beat side arms years ago but that was within the default 5 continues, so definitely not as impressive. So many worms. The megaman 2 composer did the new stage one song, as well as SonSon 2.

According to pcefx I'm not supposed to like pacland, bravoman, samurai ghost or wonder momo.

[ClodBusted]

I don't like Air Zonk as much as people make me feel I should.

[wiseau]

Vasteel. I dont know what it is about strategy game with hexagonspaces or feature length movies before the game starts, but i cant stand them.

[esteban]

It was a Capcom game, so it had to be good, right?  Nope. 
...
The game is repetitive and boring.  I clearly remember saying, many times, "didn't I just kill this thing in the last level."  And "this spinny circle thing again???"

Capcom was actually known for many repetitive games though, such as Exed Exes and 1942. Even the much improved 1943 and 1943 Kai weren't offering much variations either. (I think the 19xx series got more variations much later, when they decided to ditch all the realistic overtones.) At least SideArms offered more variations in the settings(a lot of weapon options, vertically scrolling stages, shooting at either sides, etc.), and mecha combination! Though Nichibutsu games offered more crazy combinations.

I'm a bit biased though, as having nostalgic memories playing a lot the arcade version(and not so well, couldn't even get past the second stage) and the LOADS of Anime plagiarismsreferences in it certainly helped (that Akiman being part of the graphics team could be a reason), which people not getting into ANIME in that era might not understand.

The PCE version (actually the CD "Special" version, which is the only version I own) does have a number of features compromised, such as having to pause when changing weapons, no backgrounds in some of the boss fights(those wheels, actually) and (obviously) lack of 2-player mode, but it's still a mostly accurate port, which was as close as you could get for console conversions at that time (I think all the artworks were lifted directly from the arcade version, so they're just pixel perfect). Many of the changes are minor at best, if you accept them. The need to pause when changing weapons actually makes the game easier and the lack of 2-player mode isn't that seriously a downgrade, as you'd like to keep your mecha combined at all time anyway (I think it's actually a design flaw to leave one of the players almost useless in the combined state, but not being able to play with the beta robot is certainly missed, and that you couldn't have beta-alpha combination, which some people claimed was a more powerful form in the arcade version). At least I could beat this version (but not the Before Christ mode, which I personally think is a trainwreck for changing almost everything to make the game nearly unplayable, but it's just free stuff so I couldn't complain) so I love this version even more. (And yeah, even though I don't own the Hucard version, I think the new stage one tune is nice, though why they decided to add this was a mystery.)

Yes! I just assumed I suck really bad because I've had a very frustrating experience with the Before Christ mode... and I feel like I am missing out on something (I have not gotten to the last few states in B.C. Mode, IIRC).

This is how I would describe SideArms: it doesn't make a strong first impression.

Or, to put it another way: it is a game that grows on you and becomes more charming the longer you spend with it. It has a surprising amount of personality and things to do (and discover)...if you open your heart.

For example, it did not particularly impress me when I first played it on TG-16 (My friend got Sidearms as soon as it was released, but I had already played Blazing Lazers and was spoiled by BL/Gunhed).

I don't think Sidearms was one of those games that could GRAB YOU BY THE LEFT ONE (either in the arcade or on the console) in 1989-1990...because it didn't have the aesthetic flair of the "current generation"  of games (BL).

...so I forgive people whose FIRST IMPRESSION of Sidearms was a mere shrug.

However, once you are playing Sidearms, it was SWIFT and FUN and really addictive (at least, addictive for me, I love the mechanic of flipping forward/backward a la Section Z NES)... I still think it is fun to take different paths through Sidearms (instead of following the same pattern) because it really changes things! (Not all games really feel different if you do this, in my experience.)

Personally, I put Raiden and Sidearms in similar categories: their real charm is the addictive quality of: I think I can get a little bit farther...but dammit, I keep fucking up...

I know some folks find Sidearms easy, but beating the game without continues wasn't easy for me.


ASIDE:
FOR A CAPCOM GAME THAT *SHOULD* have been a MASTERPIECE, but then allows horrible repetition to destroy it l, I would bring your attention to LEGENDARY WINGS (NES) .... the horizontal boss fights are SO REPETITIVE and just suck a lot of the awesomeness away...

Legendary Wings, with a bit more effort and care, could easily have been a goddamn solid platinum classic for All Time (I still like the game, but what a squandered opportunity—it physically hurts me to think about it).

So, yes, Sidearms does suffer a bit from recycling  "boss/mini-boss" assets... but thankfully it doesn't completely negate itself (like Legendary Wings).

Sidearms = occasionally anticlimactic
Legendary Wings = 100% anticlimactic

Maybe I set the bar too low?

I don't think so.

[VestCunt]

Blazing Lazers. I don't know why I don't enjoy it. I like Soldier Blade and Cyber Core all right.

Also, why are vertical shooters less fun than horizontal shooters? I like primitive vertical shooters, like Galaga and Space Invaders, but somewhere around Astro Warrior I loose interest and will play Dead Moon or R-Type over a vertical scroller any day. 

My theory is verticals suck because of the aspect ratio of TV's. It's harder for designers to fill the screen with action when the top of the scrolling direction is smooshed.
-
Also CF2. And not because of the encounter frequency or lack of item effects, but because JRPG's ruined the world.

Vasteel. I dont know what it is about strategy game with hexagonspaces or feature length movies before the game starts, but i cant stand them.

Vasteel is the perfect sustainable strategy game -- good enough to be fun, but not spectacular. I can play a couple games, then put it down and have a life. I also love how it's totally not a Super CD -- some nice touches, but still firmly grounded in the dirty realm of early video games.

[Winniez]

Blazing Lazers. I don't know why I don't enjoy it. I like Soldier Blade and Cyber Core all right.

Also, why are vertical shooters less fun than horizontal shooters? I like primitive vertical shooters, like Galaga and Space Invaders, but somewhere around Astro Warrior I loose interest and will play Dead Moon or R-Type over a vertical scroller any day. 

My theory is verticals suck because of the aspect ratio of TV's. It's harder for designers to fill the screen with action when the top of the scrolling direction is smooshed.
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Also CF2. And not because of the encounter frequency or lack of item effects, but because JRPG's ruined the world.

Vasteel. I dont know what it is about strategy game with hexagonspaces or feature length movies before the game starts, but i cant stand them.

Vasteel is the perfect sustainable strategy game -- good enough to be fun, but not spectacular. I can play a couple games, then put it down and have a life. I also love how it's totally not a Super CD -- some nice touches, but still firmly grounded in the dirty realm of early video games.

That might be due to the pacing issues. Gunhead just feels kind of boring and slow compared against the Soldier triology on PC-Engine. I have always considered Compile shooters a tad overrated.

[MisterCrash]

For me, it's Coryoon. I love cute shooters, and really like Air Zonk (which is not due to nostalgia), so a game made by the same developers seemed like a sure thing. But I find I don't really enjoy playing it. My main gripes are the fruit, which is just everywhere and make it really hard to see enemies /obstacles /bullets, and the cycling powerups, where it's too easy to accidentally grab the wrong color.

As for Splatterhouse, it was one of the first games that I got for my Turbo back in the day, and I loved it. I tried playing it again a few months ago, and found that I didn't really care for it anymore. The effects and atmosphere are nice, but I just wasn't having fun playing it.

[jtucci31]

Spriggan for me.

I thought it looked really cool and that I'd like it, but it just feels too busy for me as a shooter.

[NecroPhile]

For me, it's Coryoon. I love cute shooters, and really like Air Zonk (which is not due to nostalgia), so a game made by the same developers seemed like a sure thing. But I find I don't really enjoy playing it. My main gripes are the fruit, which is just everywhere and make it really hard to see enemies /obstacles /bullets, and the cycling powerups, where it's too easy to accidentally grab the wrong color.

You should give it a try with the fruit turned off.  Maybe you'd like it then.

[esteban]

Spriggan for me.

I thought it looked really cool and that I'd like it, but it just feels too busy for me as a shooter.

Well, many games can feel overwhelming at first. But then, once you train yourself a bit (awareness of projectiles, especially against certain backgrounds)... you might friggin' love Spriggan.

The power of Before Christ compels you.

The power of Before Christ compels you.

The power of Before Christ compels you.

(...you might friggin' love Spriggan!)

[EmperorIng]

actually the secret to Spriggan is Green Green Yellow. Bam, you don't need to worry about Spriggan anymore.

[Slainmonkey]

Kaze Kiri honestly left me pretty cold. At first it seems like it'd be great, graphics are appealing and a wide range of moves. However it soon becomes apparent that the game has no stage design, it's all just long corridors full of enemies and nothing else. This game could have been great if it had proper stages, but otherwise it's the biggest missed opportunity on the system!