HuCard games on CD

nat · 03/19/2007, 02:25 PM

As everybody knows there were a few games that started life as HuCards and eventually saw release on CD:

Bomberman
Bonk's Adventure
Bonk's Revenge
Nectaris

Any others?

My question is this... How does this work? What is involved in copying a HuCard program to a CD?

I would imagine you need some kind of bootstrap code to interface with the System card and then load the game, but is that it?

Has anyone ever looked into this?

rolins · 03/19/2007, 02:46 PM

These come to mind

Daisenpu Custom
R-Type Complete
Side Arms Special
Super Raiden

Seldane · 03/19/2007, 03:02 PM

As long as you've got the source code, turning a "hu-card" game to cd-format doesn't really require much work at all as far as I know.

GUTS · 03/19/2007, 03:49 PM

Wasn't there someone who hacked the 4-1 cd to use other hucards, but they ran into problems with it and couldn't get it to work with more than the 4 games on the disc or something? I remember reading about that a while back. Having a ton of hucards on one cd that booted on a real Duo has been one of the holy grails of the PCE scene for as long as I can remember.

Nazi NecroPhile · 03/19/2007, 03:54 PM

You're probably thinking of the Super Hucard (search google for it). It was limited to games that could be loaded entirely into the system memory. There is a nice explanation of how it works on the website.

esteban · 03/19/2007, 04:19 PM

Quote from: GUTS on 03/19/2007, 03:49 PMWasn't there someone who hacked the 4-1 cd to use other hucards, but they ran into problems with it and couldn't get it to work with more than the 4 games on the disc or something? I remember reading about that a while back. Having a ton of hucards on one cd that booted on a real Duo has been one of the holy grails of the PCE scene for as long as I can remember.

IIRC, folks on magicengine said that you could replace 3/4 ROMS on the 4-in-1 CD (I think you had to leave Bomberman intact?). I've never done this, but I'd love to hear about it. Of course, the menu screen didn't change...

EDIT: Here is the old thread, but I think it was a joke!

Check out tg-drifter's final comment in that thread:

QuoteYou cannot simply burn rom images onto a CD and expect them to work. Hucard games access data at different addresses than CD games. In other words, a hucard image that's burned on CD tries to load the data from the cartridge which is non-existent...

Ha! I didn't remember that final comment at all... now my dreams of sticking another ROM on Neo Nectaris have been dashed.

hindsr1976 · 03/19/2007, 06:50 PM

I know you can download alot of the CD games through emule.

TurboXray · 03/19/2007, 08:21 PM

The quote by tg-drifter is dead on. The memory address of the system card ram is not in the same place as with hucards - so just copying over the games in 4-in-1 CD won't work.

The method is to trace through a hucard and look for all instructions that change/handle memory bank swaps and change them to CD ram location. If you don't get all of them changed, the game will crash at some point when it calls that unmodified instruction.

The Super Hucard iso is a project were people did just that - but not all the games work and some of them are incorrectly modifed (salamander was one of them). Also, you're limited to 2meg games since that's the size of the super system card.

What is cool and has no been done yet, is change the music routine of the a certain hucard game converted to run on SCD unit and have it play CD tracks instead of PCM music.

-Rich

nat · 03/19/2007, 08:49 PM

Thanks. That link to the MagicEngine forums told me what I need to know.

However, this "Super HuCard" project is a new one on me. Thanks for the heads up on that one, too.

Seldane · 03/19/2007, 10:11 PM

Super Hucard rules. Tons of fun, I just wish it didn't take so long to start it up.

TurboXray · 03/19/2007, 11:18 PM

I fixed the bug in Salamander - plays now. If anyone's interested I'll post an IPS patch for the ISO version.

nat · 03/19/2007, 11:27 PM

I just tried to burn the ISO version but it won't run on my TG-CD.

Get a "LOAD ERROR!" almost immediately.

When I was burning it it prompted me to input some funky settings like:

Pregap
Postgap
Block size
Scrambled

Which I left at their defaults (0, 0, 2532 (?), and "NO"). I'm guessing this is where the problem lies. Anyone know the proper settings here? I'm guessing the block size is what needs to be changed but I have no clue what it should be set to.

TurboXray · 03/19/2007, 11:36 PM

You're trying to burn the ISO version or the BIN version? If you burning the ISO version then you need a CUE sheet to go along with it for burning software to create it correctly.

open wordpad or notepad
put this in there...

Code Select


 FILE "super_hucard.iso" BINARY
  TRACK 01 MODE1/2048
    INDEX 01 00:00:00

then save the file as (dos)text format with a ".cue" extension in the same place as the ISO.

Note: you'll need to change the iso (file) to match what I have listed or change the filename in the first line to match the ISO you have - either way.

Burn with Nero, Alcohol, etc.

If you still have problems, then I'll just upload the file(s) and post a link.

nat · 03/20/2007, 12:44 AM

I'm burning the ISO by itself. Actually, I didn't need the .CUE file at all. But changing the "Block size" to 2048 (as indicated in the .CUE you've got there) made it burn correctly.

Incidentally, the "Super HuCard" CD is exactly the sort of thing I had in mind when I created this thread. There are a few titles on here so far I've discovered that don't work. Does anyone else get graphical glitchiness in the main menu (it can best be described as "snow", similar to the snow early CGA video cards used to produce in text mode for those that remember those days). The games themselves seem to be fine. I find myself really wanting for a shortcut back to the main menu short of toggling the system power.

Right now I've found myself deeply involved with a game of Pac-Land. A game I haven't actually owned in ten years but I used to play it *all* the time as a kid, I can't put it down. I played Xevious for the first time in my life just now. All I can say is.... wow. The graphics in Xevious look bad for a fucking NES game. I had no idea the Turbo sunk so low.

I notice they've got Wonderboy in Monsterland on there. How hard would it be to apply the English patch to the copy in this ISO? I already own the actual Japanese cart. Bonknuts, you seem to have some technical know-how with this stuff. How about it? And yes, at the very least, please post your patch for Salamander.

EDIT: There are bugs in Pac-Land. Actually, just sprite issues. The fairy godmother that gives you your "special" shoes is a mess of pixels, as is Pac-Man's family and the "special" shoes themselves.

TurboXray · 03/20/2007, 01:33 AM

Yeah, I'll take game out, patch it, and insert it back in to see if it works. It probably will as I don't think the translation team did any sort of ASM hacks.

I'll post a patch for Salamander included in it as one patch.

ParanoiaDragon · 03/20/2007, 02:42 AM

I may take up the task of doing music for a game or 2 on this. Still thinking of which ones I'd like to redo the music on. I think the one thing that kind of hinder's me, is that I wish we could not only add cd tracks, but update the graphics, add paralax, etc. I'm thinking of either Dragon's Curse, or the english version of Bikkuriman World. However, I don't want to take on too many projects all at once.

Seldane · 03/20/2007, 09:49 AM

Does Dragon's Curse work for anyone using Super Hucard? It sort of works for me, but whenever I enter a house in the village - it crashes.

nat · 03/20/2007, 11:31 AM

Quote from: Seldane on 03/20/2007, 09:49 AMDoes Dragon's Curse work for anyone using Super Hucard? It sort of works for me, but whenever I enter a house in the village - it crashes.

As I played more of the titles last night, I found this seems to be really common.

I haven't tried Dragon's Curse specifically, but Pac-Land and Galaga '90 jump instantly to mind. With the latter, you can play fine until you reach a warp. Then it freezes and crashes.

It's like they made some tweaks to the addressing so that the games would actually start up, then played 2 minutes worth of the game, saw all was well and then moved on without actually playing through. Oh, well, it's "by the fans, for the fans" so I guess I can't complain.

nat · 03/23/2007, 12:27 AM

Bonknuts, never mind about patching WBML. I'm an idiot. There's already a patched version on there under a cryptic abbreviation. Although after the second level the translation text becomes gibberish.

So today I sat down and played like 95% of the games on the Super HuCard disc. About 90% of them either don't work at all or crash/have graphics glitches like Seldane described. I only played a handful that I couldn't find anything wrong with. And I'm willing to bet that's only because I didn't play them long enough.

Definitely a work in progress-- although it's nice to see that it CAN be done. Looks like it would take a lot of work to get everything running perfectly, though.

Something I found humorous: the Gunhead Special Caravan cart is on there three times under three different names. Somebody spent a lot of time making sure no player would miss this one.

EDIT: The last release was nearly four years ago. I think it's safe to assume it's been abandoned and this Benjamin Quinn isn't going to be doing any more work on it. A shame, really.

TurboXray · 03/23/2007, 01:45 AM

Quotethis Benjamin Quinn isn't going to be doing any more work on it. A shame, really.

Benjamin Quinn is busy working on other stuff at the moment (/me chuckles to himself). Though I'm not sure he'll return to work on the super hucard project again. It was more of a proof of concept. The reason why most of the games crash is because not all the of hucard bank swapping instructions were not converted to CDRAM(yes CDRAM) usage. It would require a lot of work to finish the project.

Trying to do all those games at once must have been a huge undertaking. Anyway, did you still want the Salamander patch?

Nat, if you open the superhucard iso with a hexeditor - look at address 0x44c960 (that's were the Gunhed special rom is located) for something really interesting.

Seldane · 03/23/2007, 07:13 AM

Now I'm super curious, but not enough to locate, download and check the file.

nat · 03/23/2007, 11:36 AM

Quote from: TurboXray on 03/23/2007, 01:45 AMAnyway, did you still want the Salamander patch?

Yes, please!

QuoteNat, if you open the superhucard iso with a hexeditor - look at address 0x44c960 (that's were the Gunhed special rom is located) for something really interesting.

I'll do it when I get home.

ParanoiaDragon · 03/23/2007, 11:26 PM

Quote from: Seldane on 03/23/2007, 07:13 AMNow I'm super curious, but not enough to locate, download and check the file.

Same here, share this with us Mal!

nat · 03/24/2007, 12:12 AM

Woah.. What the fuck IS that? Is that text in the actual Gunhed Caravan ROM?

What's the text from?

TurboXray · 03/24/2007, 01:27 AM

The rom has the US NES game/rom Tombs and Treasures in it

It isn't too supprising to see other games data mixed into a rom or even a CD image. They must start with existing projects or something, but what is weird is that a US rom contents for another system is in a japanese PC Engine rom

It was mentioned before that Hudson of Japan was in charge of the US release/translation of Ys I & II CD for NEC at the time, so maybe Hudson took on other subcontracts to translate games for NES - US. I can't think of any other reason why an US game is in a japanese Gunhed rom.

esteban · 03/24/2007, 10:54 AM

Quote from: TurboXray on 03/24/2007, 01:27 AMThe rom has the US NES game/rom Tombs and Treasures in it

It isn't too supprising to see other games data mixed into a rom or even a CD image. They must start with existing projects or something, but what is weird is that a US rom contents for another system is in a japanese PC Engine rom

It was mentioned before that Hudson of Japan was in charge of the US release/translation of Ys I & II CD for NEC at the time, so maybe Hudson took on other subcontracts to translate games for NES - US. I can't think of any other reason why an US game is in a japanese Gunhed rom.

Wow, that is wacky.

TurboXray · 03/24/2007, 01:32 PM

Here's the Salamander patch.

Note: this is for the ISO version. www.zeograd.com has the newest version of the ISO btw. Look under goodies (you'll find patches for Alshark and Banaza Bros. to run on US systems too).

Keranu · 03/24/2007, 02:39 PM

Quote from: stevek666 on 03/24/2007, 10:54 AM
Quote from: TurboXray on 03/24/2007, 01:27 AMThe rom has the US NES game/rom Tombs and Treasures in it

It isn't too supprising to see other games data mixed into a rom or even a CD image. They must start with existing projects or something, but what is weird is that a US rom contents for another system is in a japanese PC Engine rom

It was mentioned before that Hudson of Japan was in charge of the US release/translation of Ys I & II CD for NEC at the time, so maybe Hudson took on other subcontracts to translate games for NES - US. I can't think of any other reason why an US game is in a japanese Gunhed rom.
Wow, that is wacky.

Indeed! I'm always interested in this kind of stuff. This example is just too weird!

Seldane · 03/24/2007, 02:40 PM

Maybe the ROM was modified by someone for some reason. Anybody got a clean dump to compare with?

nat · 03/24/2007, 02:41 PM

Hey Bonknuts, I meant to ask you before you posted up the Salamander patch...

Any chance of patching Shanghai with the English menu translation? Shanghai seems to be one of the very few games on the Super HuCard that works 100%.

Seldane · 03/24/2007, 05:22 PM

Somebody needs to fix Dragon's Curse.

nat · 03/24/2007, 06:03 PM

Just about all of them need fixing in one way or another.

What's involved in doing this? Do the ROMs need to be disassembled first?

TurboXray · 03/25/2007, 12:20 AM

That the game Dave Shadoff translated? I take a look at it..

radiantgun · 03/26/2007, 10:08 AM

I've got a cd with over 90 hucard games on it ! If that helps ! Runs straight on my briefcase, though once you pick one game theres no return to main menu and pick another ! You have to switch off and pick again ! Boo

Seldane · 03/26/2007, 11:28 AM

That's the thing we're talking about.

BonkThis · 03/30/2007, 11:02 AM

Quote from: radiantgun on 03/26/2007, 10:08 AMI've got a cd with over 90 hucard games on it ! If that helps ! Runs straight on my briefcase, though once you pick one game theres no return to main menu and pick another ! You have to switch off and pick again ! Boo

I'm totally new to this but couldnt you just hit the select and run button together? I thought doing that reset the turbo back to the main screen?

nat · 03/30/2007, 11:43 AM

Not with the Super HuCard CD. Resetting just resets the game you are currently playing.

To get back to the main game selection menu you have to power your system off then back on.

You can get a REAL workout doing this when your system is 15 feet away from you and you are trying to test every single game on the disc. Like he said, there's like 90 of them.

TurboXray · 03/30/2007, 12:49 PM

Yeah, run+select isn't a hardware reset. It's done by the game code. It must have been a Hudson requirement or something. See Spriggan Mark2 - it doesn't reset when you press run+select.

Keranu · 03/30/2007, 04:49 PM

Quote from: TurboXray on 03/30/2007, 12:49 PMYeah, run+select isn't a hardware reset. It's done by the game code. It must have been a Hudson requirement or something. See Spriggan Mark2 - it doesn't reset when you press run+select.

Are you sure of this? It seems like all the indie demos I've tested will reset by pressing run + select. There was even this demo made by a non-Turbo fan who more than likely wasn't aware of the run+select trick and his demo even did it.

TurboXray · 03/30/2007, 05:24 PM

Yeah, I'm sure. HuC and Magickit library have the code to reset on run+select. Since I use all my libraries, my demos don't reset - not that I couldn't add it, I just haven't.

Have you tried doing a pad reset on the secret CD conversion project? It won't reset

ParanoiaDragon · 03/30/2007, 10:50 PM

I know that some games, require that you hold select & run for awhile, like Ys 4.

Keranu · 03/31/2007, 01:50 AM

Quote from: TurboXray on 03/30/2007, 05:24 PMYeah, I'm sure. HuC and Magickit library have the code to reset on run+select. Since I use all my libraries, my demos don't reset - not that I couldn't add it, I just haven't.

Have you tried doing a pad reset on the secret CD conversion project? It won't reset

Ahh ok, that makes sense then. On a side note, have you noticed when you reset games with RUN+Select on some indie demos there are these weird vertical lines toward the bottom of the screen when it turns black?

Quote from: Paranoia_DragonI know that some games, require that you hold select & run for awhile, like Ys 4.

Cool I didn't know that. I remember there are very few PCE games that I have played where RUN+Select wouldn't reset it, maybe I just had to hold them down longer.

ccovell · 03/31/2007, 09:54 AM

Quote from: Keranu on 03/31/2007, 01:50 AMAhh ok, that makes sense then. On a side note, have you noticed when you reset games with RUN+Select on some indie demos there are these weird vertical lines toward the bottom of the screen when it turns black?

I'm sure that's just the screen showing some uninitialized area of the BG Map when the game code resets itself, but before it turns off the screen and clears VRAM properly. A lot of HuC programs also update palettes smack dab in the middle of the screen, and you can see the resultant palette streaking.

neozeed · 04/09/2007, 12:12 PM

this is great to see interest in the super HuCard. Ever since i used it I have always been surprised that I haven't seen more interest in it. It would be cool to just see the image cleaned up with the games that are dead and doubles to be deleted.

nat · 04/09/2007, 01:27 PM

Quote from: neozeed on 04/09/2007, 12:12 PMit would be cool to just see the image cleaned up with the games that are dead and doubles to be deleated.

Or triples, as the case may be.

Dreamcaster · 05/10/2007, 02:35 AM

is there anyway someone could make me a copy of the super hucard cd and mail it to me. i can send money to cover shipping and cd cost through paypal. email me at ween-rocks@hotmail.com

TurboXray · 09/21/2011, 08:12 AM

Since someone recently requested the Salamander fix for this and the old links are broken, here's the cue/iso with the patched Salamander game (fixed the booting issue, fixed the DDA sample issue):

pcedev . net/super_hucard/super_hucard.zip

RetroRepair · 09/21/2011, 11:48 AM

Awesome!

Thanks for that.. would it be cheeky to ask you to look at Gradius too? That one craps out when it tries to boot also.

Looking forward to MegaMan 2 on CD btw

RetroRepair · 09/21/2011, 12:43 PM

Salamander works great for the most part but craps out on level 2. Sprites get stuck on the screen then the game hangs.

TurboXray · 09/21/2011, 10:07 PM

If you're willing to test 'em, I'm will to patch them (or continue looking for bugs) ;)

Supposedly as the story goes, the person responsible for this build of the ISO used an automated tool to hunt down the mapper opcodes... but I don't see how that's possible when it skipped over some pretty easy detectable ones in Salamander. I have a tool I use for NES to PCE project for hunting down specific opcodes (with special operand ranges). I'll adapt it for use with this, for hunting down real TAM opcodes vs just data that looks like opcodes.