what was EGM's 1989 Game of the Year: Legendary Axe or Ghouls 'n Ghosts ?

[Turbo D]

Well fuck yeah!  An arcade-like boot menu makes ANY game 1000x better!  I am setting my Genesis on fire now and buying every SuperGrafx copy in the world!  ;)

Now yer talkin'   

Fuck this audio debate shit. I will lay it down for you.

TG-16: Sounds like a Sega Master System with better drums.

Genesis: Sounds like a DX7 and a telephone having sex.


They both suck on the audio front. THE END.

TurboGrafx has bad-ass sound. I could listen to the airzonk soundtrack all day!

[Joe Redifer]

Air Zonk?  It's alright I guess, but I much prefer how Legendary Axe 2 sounds.  I find the drums in Air Zonk very "fatiguing" for lack of better term, plus the melodies aren't that great.  Oh, Jackie Chan's Action Kung-Fu kicks its ass as well, as does Dragon's Curse and Devil's Crush!

[PCEngineHell]

Ehh both systems could do great audio,depending on who was doing the actual programming. Its a game by game basis really.

[awack]

         Joe Redifer

As for the pics, why are you playing the Genesis version on PRACTICE?

Damnit you got me, i forgot to cut that out of the picture

[PCEngineHell]

Well,he was only going for pics it would seem,might as well make it easy going.

[Joe Redifer]

I wish the Genesis version didn't default to PRACTICE like that.  It's easy enough as it is.

[handygrafx]

I don't recall any parallax scrolling in Legendary Axe, though it's been about 5-6 years since I've played it.

alot of nonsense got printed in EGM even during their 'glory days'.

[awack]

Yea, I'm pretty sure there is no parallax scrolling in Legendary Axe.

[handygrafx]

super grafx                             genesis                         


                 super grafx                              genesis



First part of level 3, this is one of the few areas in the genesis version that hold up well against the super grafx but still not on the same level in my opinion.

Through out the game game the super grafx version shows more color, more detail, better drawn tiles/background objects, and better effects such as your special attack, enemy deaths and the tree animation on the first level.

What i like about the genesis version is the level of difficulty, the super grafx GnG kicks my ass and you only have 3 continues, i also like sound better.

ramble time ^__^  (blah blah blah blah)

SuperGrafx indeed has better detail in almost every place.   the tiles are better. there's around twice the number of colors on screen (although still only about 1/3 of the arcade).   I know for certain that SuperGrafx isn't using anywhere near the full amount of colors it can display. around 74 or so, compared to the just under 600 that it can do (like the PCE).    the Genesis version uses about ~34 colors. about half what it can do.  The arcade uses 200 or more colors on screen.  where am I getting those figures?
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/16bitArcadeComp.htm   if the arcade only uses 200 colors (even slightly more) that's still a small fraction of  the max CPS1 can do: 2048 (maybe 4096) from a palette of 65,536.

 The SuperGrafx uses most of the original arcade artwork, although significantly downgraded, at least most of its there. unlike the Genesis version which is missing most of the background details.  I love the SuperGrafx version, it was certainly the closest home port from 1990 until 1994 when the arcade-exact X68000 version came along. but 99.999% of us didnt get to play that. so we had to wait another 4 years until the PS1 and Saturn versions came out in 1998. even then, a tiny percentage of gamers would've imported Capcom Generation 2.  so, we' have to wait another 5-6 years until Capcom Classics Collection came out on PS2 and Xbox.  by then, many of us had played it on MAME. but it was still great to have a legit port to play at home.

[Joe Redifer]

I just played through the "arcade" version on my Saturn.  According to those screenshots posted above, the Genesis version looks MUCH closer to the arcade than the SuperGrafx for level 3-1.  The only exception are the red lines on the wall in the second pic.  But the arcade had black for the BG on the second pic, just like the Genesis version, as well as the blue/grey BG (not purple) in the first pic.  The SG version seems to have the wrong colors throughout.  It seems too dark.  Usually that's the problem with the Genesis.  Maybe Sega made the SG version?   

[handygrafx]

what really ticks me off about the Saturn version is, the end of game music is TOTALLY arranged, and done terribly. it's done so badly that it sounds worse than the Genesis (and SuperGrafx)  at least in the composition of the music.

they really fucked it up.

[TurboXray]

The SGX version has tiles/sprites that looks suspiciously like they were stored in 8color mode instead of the native 16 color mode. Quite a few early hucards used this method as a cheap and fast compression/decompression method. Bastards!

[guyjin]

what really ticks me off about the Saturn version is, the end of game music is TOTALLY arranged, and done terribly. it's done so badly that it sounds worse than the Genesis (and SuperGrafx)  at least in the composition of the music.

I can't really tell; what's it supposed to sound like?

[handygrafx]

skip to the middle.

if you can't tell the difference, try comparing again.

[Tatsujin]

I find the drums in Air Zonk very "fatiguing" for lack of better term, plus the melodies aren't that great. 

as i said a couple month ago, pc-denjin owns few of the best PCE chip-tunes ever composed. check level 2 and the level with the baseball stadium (4 i guess), those are some great compositions.

[Joe Redifer]

I've been through the whole sound test (and game) and while they are somewhat catchy, I just don't rank those tunes up there with the best PCE/Turbo tunes.

[nat]

The title song alone is possibly the best Turbo chip song ever.

[Tatsujin]

I've been through the whole sound test (and game) and while they are somewhat catchy, I just don't rank those tunes up there with the best PCE/Turbo tunes.

maybe not you, but i do!

[Joe Redifer]

The title song alone is possibly the best Turbo chip song ever.

No way.  I have no idea why the music in this game gets so much love.  It's not that great... unless all the other music on the system is shit.

[nat]

to each his own I guess.

[Tatsujin]

we know, joe always tends to the extreme on anything

[Joe Redifer]

???  I'm just saying that Air Zonk's music isn't as great as most people make it out to be, and most people make it out to be the best music on the system.  Nothing extreme about that.

[Tatsujin]

we're not the crappy chart music judges in here, so i suppose all of us have some good and healthy potion of experience with chip-music and may be able to judge those for good and bad. so there must be a good reason for, why people actually feel that pc-denjin contains some real good tunes.

[Joe Redifer]

The reason I usually hear are the drums, and that's the main thing about that music which bugs me.

[nat]

For me, the drums are nice (certainly isn't anything offensive about them), but isn't really a part of why I like the music. The title song tune is classic.

[Tatsujin]

sorry, but pure classec!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=V2lLPji4KyQ

@11.04

  ~♪

[Turbo D]

yes, its a true classic. I love everything about it, even the drums!

[JoshTurboTrollX]

Order of the Griffon or Shockman has the best Turbo Music ever!


Air Zonk is excellent as well!!


Joe Redifer?  What would you consider the best Turbo Chip music ever?

[Joe Redifer]

I really don't think I could pick an absolute favorite (on any system, for that matter), but I just know that Air Zonk ranks below the others I mentioned above for me.

[Turbo D]

Have you dudes seen airRaids ghouls n ghosts comparison?

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140907

[CrackTiger]

From what I've read of various people's Ghouls 'N Ghosts MD/SGX/Arcade comments online, it seems that (as in other PCE vs MD audio discussions/debates) people who trash the SGX Daimakaimura sound either never played it, never really listened/compared or just outright made up their mind beforehand based on preconceived notions about PCE sound in general.

AirRaidX summed up this kind of thinking best with this comment-

the CPS arcade version is unquestionably TECHNICALLY the best.

I personally PREFER / LIKE / ENJOY the Genesis music the most, even though it's technically inferior to the arcade.

the Super Grafx music is shit because the audio chip is the same as in the original PC-Engine/TurboGrafx, and therefore worse than the Arcade and Genesis.

But if you actually listen to the music of each version together, it turns out that the SuperGrafx version's sound, as well as the actual music, is very similar to the CPS FM sound/music(especially when compared to the Genesis sound/music).

So those who think that the SGX port's sound is garbage should also hate the arcade sound too.

I think that all 3 are well done and ranking them all depends on personal taste, but that none are extremely superior to any other. Personally, some of the sounds of the Genesis version literally hurt my ears, even on a model 1 system.



As for the visuals, I believe that the Genesis version, like its Strider port, had (almost?)all of the graphics completely redrawn. The SuperGrafx version looks more like the arcade because it actually uses a fair bit of the arcade artwork(mainly the sprites?).

I think that the SuperGrafx version, although still a decent game, is a pretty sloppy port visually. Not simply because 'it could always be done better', but because it actually looks like the developer didn't put much effort into it.

Much of the SGX port's graphics look like they were transfered over without being touched up and overall, some very poor choices in color were used. Its actually very similar to the Arcade CD Strider in this way. But its more of a mixed bag with the SGX GnG visuals, which are randomly great and not-so-good/peculiar looking in places, often hit and miss within the same screen.

Bonknuts is probably right about the 8 color thing, because the SuperGrafx version looks like its running on palette and/or colors-on-screen challenged hardware, which the SuperGrafx/PC Engine is not.

Although the Genesis version's visuals have been simplified, like the Genesis Strider port the colors are either more arcade faithful or simply better/more complimentary overall. I would have preferred more consistant visuals with the SGX version.



I prefer the overall gameplay of the Genesis version simply because of the less cheap (or more arcade-unfaithful to the AirRaidX level of obsessors ) difficulty(even the japanese version).

I also like being able to play GnG in my Nomad and the more reasonable "difficulty" level increases it's value here.


I seem to have the opposite view of the game than the reputation its carried over the years, since I find the visuals overrated and the sound underrated.



As for Air Zonk's music, I think that many people get hooked by the unique sound and the tecnical level of the music using so many samples so well. The actual music itself certainly isn't the best on Turbo/PCE, but its still very good overall and has quantity in its favor too.

I also hate picking favorites, but I'd probably rate Dungeon Explorer as either the best or my favorite chip tunes.

[Turbo D]

so thats where you got your signature! 

[nat]

Gotta love good ol' AirRaidX.

[Joe Redifer]

I think AirRaidX has made a career out of comparing different versions of Ghouls 'n Ghosts.  I notice that whenever he has footage of the SG version, it's always running in Magic Engine.  I think since he owns the PCB he is trying to defend/justify his purchase or something.  There certainly isn't anything wrong with owning an arcade, and it doesn't need to be justified as the best!

As for the audio, since I am mostly used to the Genesis version, the arcade does sound a little goofy to me, especially in level 2.  God I hate that music, but it is *almost* bearable on the Genesis.  Many of the other levels sound really close to the Genesis with a few changes in percussion and/or background instruments.  Level 1 is really different, though.  Though certainly not a deal breaker on any system, I think the Genesis has the best sound effects.  Not really an issue, though.

[TurboXray]

You guys do know that handygrafx is AirRaidX, right?

[nat]

You guys do know that handygrafx is AirRaidX, right?

Are you serious?

If you are then that explains multitudes of things.

[Ceti Alpha]

I love how ST:V got Worst Film of the Year Award.  It was pretty bad. I remember seeing it in the theater when it came out and being quite puzzled afterwards at what I just witnessed. Though it's not as bad a the last couple of TNG movies.

[nat]

I thought Star Trek V was the worst of the Trek movies for a long time.

I revisited it again ten years after it's release and realized it really wasn't so bad. It's just a good ol' fashioned Star Trek adventure, much like any of the episodes in the TV series. I still watch it today and feel the same way and I can't really remember why I didn't like it to begin with. Retrospect has a way of changing things.

For me, the most unenjoyable of all the movies is The Voyage Home. It's just so un-Star Trek-like. I think that's why it was the most popular. I watch Star Trek to see these guys (excuse the cliche) "explore brave new worlds" not putz around on present-day Earth. If I wanted to see that I could just go watch a Priceline commercial. The best part of TVH was the last segment where Kirk & Co. is on trial and he gets demoted, then gets another ship. If only the rest of the movie had been that epic.

[Odonadon]

I love how ST:V got Worst Film of the Year Award.  It was pretty bad. I remember seeing it in the theater when it came out and being quite puzzled afterwards at what I just witnessed. Though it's not as bad a the last couple of TNG movies.

Agreed, I used to hate ST:V, but when compared to the latest couple movies, it ain't bad

OD

[Ceti Alpha]

I thought Star Trek V was the worst of the Trek movies for a long time.

I revisited it again ten years after it's release and realized it really wasn't so bad. It's just a good ol' fashioned Star Trek adventure, much like any of the episodes in the TV series. I still watch it today and feel the same way and I can't really remember why I didn't like it to begin with. Retrospect has a way of changing things.

For me, the most unenjoyable of all the movies is The Voyage Home. It's just so un-Star Trek-like. I think that's why it was the most popular. I watch Star Trek to see these guys (excuse the cliche) "explore brave new worlds" not putz around on present-day Earth. If I wanted to see that I could just go watch a Priceline commercial. The best part of TVH was the last segment where Kirk & Co. is on trial and he gets demoted, then gets another ship. If only the rest of the movie had been that epic.

Yeah, STV reminds me of a comic book rendition of Star Trek. While watching it I can almost imagine turning the pages of the comic as the scenes change. 

As for TVH, it really was a great movie. It was the only ST film that didn't require the viewer to be a fan. Even though it was the third installment of the "Genesis Trilogy" you didn't need to have seen any of those other films or the television series episodes for that matter. The scene where they are in the shuttle on their way to their new ship was awesome. I remember being on the edge of my seat as they approached the Excelsior. Though I loved that the crew got another Constitution Refit, it would have been neat if the Excelsior was renamed as the Enterprise. The comics of the day (in between the release of STIII and IV) had the crew serving on the Excelsior.

I couldn't help but post that article on Trekweb to see what people had to say about EGM's opinion. 

[nat]

As for TVH, it really was a great movie. It was the only ST film that didn't require the viewer to be a fan. Even though it was the third installment of the "Genesis Trilogy" you didn't need to have seen any of those other films or the television series episodes for that matter.

But I am a fan, so that point is lost on me.

I couldn't help but post that article on Trekweb to see what people had to say about EGM's opinion. 

I was on other earlier today but didn't catch that. I'll have to go check it out and see what the verdict is.

[Ceti Alpha]

But I am a fan, so that point is lost on me.

Oh, I was just saying that it was really the only film that appealed to fans and non-fans alike. Consequently, it was the highest grossing Trek movie, though I forget if First Contact surpassed TVH.

[nat]

The Motion Picture was the highest-grossing film at $139,000,000 worldwide.

[spenoza]

"The death of Gorkon is slow and boring. No, wait, it picks up a bit."

Somehow this comment fell out of my mouth while introducing a Norwegian friend to the soundtrack to Star Trek VI. The name of the track in question was... The Death of Gorkon.

[Ceti Alpha]

The Motion Picture was the highest-grossing film at $139,000,000 worldwide.

Cool. I have a warm place in my heart for that film. I know it has flaws (i.e. what seems like hours and hours of shots of Sulu gazing at the view screen as the Enterprise cruises through V'ger.), but it's a neat take on the Trek universe. nonetheless.

I guess TVH was the highest grossing Trek film for just the USA Box Office.

[nat]

TMP is my favorite picture in the series. It's a timeless classic.

[Sinistron]

Not to sway this ebbing thread back on topic so sternly- but how many here actually agree with EGM's assessment that Genesis Ghouls 'n Ghosts is stronger than Legendary Axe?

Taking into consideration that Legendary Axe is a pc-engine original, and that it's a 2-meg cart on what is arguably an 8-bit machine- I'd have to disagree with EGM.  Plus Ghouls 'n Ghosts is heavily diluted from it's arcade father.  I think Axe has better gameplay, better music, and a more colorful, lush, and original looking graphic design.  It's also stood the test of time better than most games of the era.

[handygrafx]

yes indeed, I am AirRaid.

HandyGrafx was a more suitable name. I choose it because it was one of the rumored codenames for TurboExpress
along with GameTank.

[guyjin]

Not to sway this ebbing thread back on topic so sternly- but how many here actually agree with EGM's assessment that Genesis Ghouls 'n Ghosts is stronger than Legendary Axe?

Sort of. I think something like a 'game of the year' should go to something new and original, not a port of an arcade game that's a year old. (regardless of how accurate it is)

[handygrafx]

Not to sway this ebbing thread back on topic so sternly- but how many here actually agree with EGM's assessment that Genesis Ghouls 'n Ghosts is stronger than Legendary Axe?

Sort of. I think something like a 'game of the year' should go to something new and original, not a port of an arcade game that's a year old. (regardless of how accurate it is)

I agree.  although in 1989 there weren't many great games besides Ghouls n Ghosts (an arcade translation) and Legendary Axe (an original game)  that weren't arcade games.    I think the next games in line should've been TurboGrafx R-Type or Genesis Golden Axe, which again, were both arcade translations.  it's pretty hard to get away from arcade games back then.  Legendary Axe was the highest-honored game that wasn't an arcade game. it won VG&CE best game of the year.