HD-DVD officially dead (finally!)

[Keranu]

I agree with you somewhat. I think the average LD costs less than the average DVD actually.

Well, now yeah. When LD was still a living format though $25 was considered a budget release, and on DVD that's almost as expensive as it gets. My most expensive LD (Macross: DYRL Perfect Edition CAV) had a price of 14,369 yen. $140 For one 2 hour film! My Aliens and Schindlers Lists boxes were something like $100 each.

Doh, yeah I just realized that you were referring to prices when they were new before I read your post.   Yeah LDs were definitely pricey when new.

I bought a batch of LDs when I was in Cali last summer. Great deals. I got both 2001 and 2010 as well as Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, and some other stuff. I also got a copy of The Jerk that was so old it said Discovision on it. Its of an *extremely* low quality. Pan and scanned and very blurry. Most of the stuff I bought was under $5 though, so LD is a great format to collect. Its kind of like vinyl at this point, except much harder to find.

Totally. LDs are really fun to collect, not just for their price but for their awesome full-sized covers. Despite having a much bigger circumfrence than DVDs, I actually think LDs save space for me since their cases are so thin. They do get heavy though!

[quoth09]

I wonder when we'll get decent amount of completely uncompressed video & audio fitting into an optical disc? (Or at the very least, lossless video).

Not sure what the hell is going on with this, but they should get their ass in gear:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_Versatile_Disc

I heard about that 3 years ago.
That would end this format war, and allow for uncompressed everything.
That would probably be enough size disc for even quadruple the resolution uncompressed, but it would still require much, much higher end hardware.

[SignOfZeta]

Despite having a much bigger circumfrence than DVDs, I actually think LDs save space for me since their cases are so thin. They do get heavy though!

Oh yeah, for sure. My LD shelf is smaller than my DVD shelf and has twice as much stuff on it. Its about 100 lbs though, and not easy to transport. Same goes for records.

[nat]

You guys make me want to go out and buy a LaserDisc player.

[Keranu]

You guys make me want to go out and buy a LaserDisc player.

I was interested in LD for years and I finally let go and bought one last year. One of my favorite purchases . It can be hard finding a good, affordable player at first, but it's worth it I think.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Who says it is supposed to be revolutionary?  It is more "evolutionary" and HDTV is a big leap over SDTV.  DVD itself didn't even offer that big of a jump over VHS as Blu-Ray does over DVD... it was still standard definition. DVD = 720x480 vs about 300x480 for VHS.  Blu-Ray = 1920x1080 vs 720x480 for DVD.  The only extra thing DVD offered was menus (who cares?) and selectable special features.  What more would you have Blu-Ray add? 

Agreed, and the difference between DVD and S-VHS / LD / Hi8 is even closer.

But you're absolutely right: DVDs are cheap as hell, both the media and the players. I love my Panasonic LX-21 LD player because you can tell a lot of care went into the design for a very sturdy product, but I've come across so many DVD players that look like the companies just didn't give a damn. I've never had a LD skip or anything on me, but I've seen DVDs skip and make awfully annoying screetches several times because of a tiny scratch (it's even happened to brand new DVDs).

True, but only because most LD players were made for a niche market and never made it into mass production.  You shouldn't compare an expensive LD player to the cheapest piece of poo DVD player on the market.  Instead, compare your LD player to a quality unit, like one from Oppo.

Now those who have been paying attention, could say I'm doing the same thing, by saying that all I'm going to do is download now. But here is the difference, I'm what you call a smart consumer. I've already been buying DVDs for 7 years or more. I'm tired of spending endless amounts of money, just because these movie companies/studios decide what format makes it, and what new technology has to supersede the previous, that myself and others have already invested in. Leaving people high and dry is no way to treat a consumer, and it does nothing but piss people like myself off. They offer no upgrade programs, and throw the same old recycled shit in our faces, and I'm tired of it.

You're not a being savvy; you're being unreasonable.  DVD has been around for more than a decade thus far, and will likely remain the dominant format for years to come.  Expecting a single format to be supported forever is just nuts.  Nobody has left you 'high and dry', as your DVDs have no expiration date and will play in any of the next-gen players.  Sony isn't forcing you to do jack shit.

HD-DVD is undeniably inferior to Blu-Ray (30gb < 50gb), and the only reason that any studios originally backed it was because the discs were cheaper to make and therefor more profitable.  Studios aren't behind some conspiracy to ruin a format, but are merely businesses trying to maximize profits, and if Sony were to try to win in an underhanded war, they'd lose their asses to the masters on the HD-DVD side.

[Kitsunexus]

Why do you really want a stack of discs that take up a shitload of space, don't have a lot of movies available, and don't even have as many special features as DVD?

BTW, apparently the collector's edition of Pulp Fiction on DVD is a laser transfer, watch the deleted scenes.

[quoth09]

I wonder when we'll get decent amount of completely uncompressed video & audio fitting into an optical disc? (Or at the very least, lossless video).

That came out ages ago. It was called Muse, and nobody bought it because it was hella expensive.

The problem with making a new format is that convenience is more important than quality. The CD is 25 years old, yet sadly its still the best sounding mainstream format...and its dying because people are buying 128kbs AACs from iTunes. People want the shitty sounding stuff because it fits into a smaller package. Example: Dark Fact up there that seems to be indicating that MP3 players are an advancement over CD players. Technologically they are, but most kids are listening to ultra shit quality 128kbs MP3. The best quality audio I can get on my iPod is a CD encoded to something that sounds as good as CD (wav, aiff, Apple Lossless). Almost without exception I can't get anything better than CD, which is sad because CD isn't even very good. Hell, my home computer can record 24-bit 96khz stereo uncompressed, but I can't buy anything that high quality because SACD and DVDA are flop formats with almost no titles worth purchasing. WTF?

I think one of many mistakes in the HD war is marketing these new formats as mainstream instead of connoisseur formats. Every since DVD came out I've been interested in the next thing. DVD wasn't actually an improvement over LD in every way. It was a somewhat lateral movement. Its better in some ways, but the real advantages over LD are the connivence and price. The things are small and cheap as hell, and so are the players. You don't have to flip them like LDs, or rewind them like tapes. They are so cheap that you don't have to take care of then like an LD that costs $40-100. Just buy another one for $10 when you scratch the hell out of it like a slob. Those are the reasons why DVD took off, and those sorts of changes aren't present in BR/HDDVD. In fact, BR and HDDVD are less convenient because ripping them is nearly impossible, there are no portable players (save $1800 laptops from Sony), etc.

The format war is over. I'm not happy that Sony came out on top, but oh well. I expect Toshiba to offer a dual format player quiet soon. They are going to have to make BluRay players eventually, so they might as well throw HDDVD playback in there for free.

There is not a single thing above that I don't agree with.

I hope to get a MUSE system one day, but no telling when that will be. Even then, there aren't that many titles that really interest me on it, mainly b/c I just don't care to spend as much as people are getting for the players that are compatible with the format these days, not to mention buying the whole MUSE decoder and other equipment for it.

The way the market is going, is all about convenience. Apple/iTunes, and all these other online carriers are teaching the damn kids that MP3 is the way to go, b/c you need to carry it on you, on your player, on your phone, etc. I still buy CDs. I convert all my own MP3s, and at no lower than 320kbit for my own personal listening. 128 is ass, and 192 is borderline with me. Even when I first started doing MP3s of my own, I was doing 192. 320 sounds pretty much like CD to me, and it is much easier than digging out my originals all the time, so they stay safe in case something happens to the file. It is nothing once you learn how to encode your own files.

SACD flopped because of too much new hardware requirement and copy protection. I have a couple of them, and I can't even get the full quality out of them! My DVD player supposedly supports it, and I have a surround receiver, but I get nothing but stereo no matter what I do. Completely worthless (and now dead) format.

DVDA I also have a couple of as well. I am rather impressed with what I have heard, in comparison to the standard CD versions or even listening to it in 2.0 on the same disc. Very nice, and it's kinda sad that there is little done with this these days as there should be.

There are Dual players out now (albeit none by Toshiba), and also it is very easy to rip HD-DVD/BRs with AnyDVD supposedly.

[Keranu]

But you're absolutely right: DVDs are cheap as hell, both the media and the players. I love my Panasonic LX-21 LD player because you can tell a lot of care went into the design for a very sturdy product, but I've come across so many DVD players that look like the companies just didn't give a damn. I've never had a LD skip or anything on me, but I've seen DVDs skip and make awfully annoying screetches several times because of a tiny scratch (it's even happened to brand new DVDs).

True, but only because most LD players were made for a niche market and never made it into mass production.  You shouldn't compare an expensive LD player to the cheapest piece of poo DVD player on the market.  Instead, compare your LD player to a quality unit, like one from Oppo.

Actually my LD player isn't a fancy expensive one. I may not have used the finest of DVD players, but I think every DVD player I've used has all caused similar problems, some better than others. And again, it's not just the players, but the actual discs themselves too.

Why do you really want a stack of discs that take up a shitload of space, don't have a lot of movies available, and don't even have as many special features as DVD?

BTW, apparently the collector's edition of Pulp Fiction on DVD is a laser transfer, watch the deleted scenes.

Sarcasm?

[Kitsunexus]

Why do you really want a stack of discs that take up a shitload of space, don't have a lot of movies available, and don't even have as many special features as DVD?

BTW, apparently the collector's edition of Pulp Fiction on DVD is a laser transfer, watch the deleted scenes.

Sarcasm?

No, truth.

[Keranu]

Why do you really want a stack of discs that take up a shitload of space, don't have a lot of movies available, and don't even have as many special features as DVD?

BTW, apparently the collector's edition of Pulp Fiction on DVD is a laser transfer, watch the deleted scenes.

Sarcasm?

No, truth.

More sarcasm?

[quoth09]

Now those who have been paying attention, could say I'm doing the same thing, by saying that all I'm going to do is download now. But here is the difference, I'm what you call a smart consumer. I've already been buying DVDs for 7 years or more. I'm tired of spending endless amounts of money, just because these movie companies/studios decide what format makes it, and what new technology has to supersede the previous, that myself and others have already invested in. Leaving people high and dry is no way to treat a consumer, and it does nothing but piss people like myself off. They offer no upgrade programs, and throw the same old recycled shit in our faces, and I'm tired of it.

You're not a being savvy; you're being unreasonable.  DVD has been around for more than a decade thus far, and will likely remain the dominant format for years to come.  Expecting a single format to be supported forever is just nuts.  Nobody has left you 'high and dry', as your DVDs have no expiration date and will play in any of the next-gen players.  Sony isn't forcing you to do jack shit.

HD-DVD is undeniably inferior to Blu-Ray (30gb < 50gb), and the only reason that any studios originally backed it was because the discs were cheaper to make and therefor more profitable.  Studios aren't behind some conspiracy to ruin a format, but are merely businesses trying to maximize profits, and if Sony were to try to win in an underhanded war, they'd lose their asses to the masters on the HD-DVD side.

It's unreasonable to ask companies to respect myself and others then I guess, and look back at who kept them going.
No, DVDs have no expiration date. They also only play in SD, and look like shit on all the HD players and HDTVs that the market will only be selling in about year. Ask anyone here, plenty of comments about DVDs looking like shit on HDTVs, upscaled or not.

In reference to:
'HD-DVD is undeniably inferior to Blu-Ray (30gb < 50gb)'
Size has nothing to do with this. And even if it did, there is an old saying: It's not the size of the disc, it's what you do with it. Dual layer HD-DVD was being worked on, so your point is null in that fashion, as that would have made HD-DVD 60GB, though that would have been countered by BluRay probably doing the same to 100GB.

[Kitsunexus]

Why do you really want a stack of discs that take up a shitload of space, don't have a lot of movies available, and don't even have as many special features as DVD?

BTW, apparently the collector's edition of Pulp Fiction on DVD is a laser transfer, watch the deleted scenes.

Sarcasm?

No, truth.

More sarcasm?

No, I'm being serious. Why does everybody think LD>DVD?

[quoth09]

Why do you really want a stack of discs that take up a shitload of space, don't have a lot of movies available, and don't even have as many special features as DVD?

BTW, apparently the collector's edition of Pulp Fiction on DVD is a laser transfer, watch the deleted scenes.

Sarcasm?

No, truth.

More sarcasm?

They do this a lot with DVDs. The companies will transfer special features/deleted scenes from laserdiscs, because they either no longer have the masters around anymore, or the commentaries were specifically made for LDs at the time. No one was looking at there being another format back then, nor was one being widely talked about or expected that the same material would be presented elsewhere. I have a few DVDs like this as well. There are also some DVDs that used the same exact transfer that the LD got, they just went back and added menus for the DVD release. Obviously those are none that have been released anytime soon, as I am talking about releases from no later than 2000 or 2001, mainly late 90's stuff.

[quoth09]

Why do you really want a stack of discs that take up a shitload of space, don't have a lot of movies available, and don't even have as many special features as DVD?

BTW, apparently the collector's edition of Pulp Fiction on DVD is a laser transfer, watch the deleted scenes.

Sarcasm?

No, truth.

More sarcasm?

No, I'm being serious. Why does everybody think LD>DVD?

Plenty of reasons:

No compression, which equals
No artifacts (99% of the time) which equals
Looks better than DVDs (especially early ones)
Full size artwork (record size covers, some with gatefold sleeves, some with director comments)
Better artwork than DVD
No region lockouts
Discs don't skip or freeze up
Movies that still aren't on DVD
Some movies that still have better transfers than DVD counterparts
Movies that always have better transfers than any VHS
etc. etc...

[Kitsunexus]

Plenty of reasons:

Aight, let's do this.

No compression

But you have to flip the discs over.

No artifacts (99% of the time)

If you spend more than $50 on a player, you don't get noticeable artifacts.

Looks better than DVDs (especially early ones)

The way you are wording that seems objective, and added in as filler to make the list bigger. WHY does it look better, if that's even true?

Full size artwork (record size covers, some with gatefold sleeves, some with director comments)

OK, that's actually something I do agree with you on.

Better artwork than DVD

But this is just more objective bullshit of a personal opinion.

No region lockouts

You can look up codes or download firmware that remove region lockout for most players.

Discs don't skip or freeze up

If you take care of your shit, shit works. Don't handle your DVDs without a Kleenex (none of that Vicks shit or lotion shit either), and make sure your DVD player is in a cool dry place. They don't put that on the back of the box for their health.

Movies that still aren't on DVD

Again, this is subjective because every movie that I have ever wanted has been released on DVD. Also, I'm pretty sure they don't make laserdiscs anymore, so if you see a movie you like in theaters, well, good luck.

Some movies that still have better transfers than DVD counterparts

And there are some DVDs that have EXCELLENT transfers. It depends on how good of a job the studio feels is "cost-effective".

Movies that always have better transfers than any VHS

But VHS sucks in general, and I don't use it.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

It's unreasonable to ask companies to respect myself and others then I guess, and look back at who kept them going.
No, DVDs have no expiration date. They also only play in SD, and look like shit on all the HD players and HDTVs that the market will only be selling in about year. Ask anyone here, plenty of comments about DVDs looking like shit on HDTVs, upscaled or not.

How have the companies disrespected you?  They're selling what the public wants to buy, which I shouldn't need to point out to someone that has dumped a Wega because it was too heavy/bulky.  Your DVDs played in SD when you bought them, so you shouldn't be surprised that they still play in SD.  Using quality scaling equipment, DVDs can look equally good on HD sets as they did on a similarly sized SD set.  I'd bet that a lot of the people bitching about the quality of their DVDs are comparing 'em between their 42" (or larger) LCD and their 32" (or smaller) CRT.  Few SD rear projection sets had picture quality that would compare favorably to newer sets.

In reference to:
'HD-DVD is undeniably inferior to Blu-Ray (30gb < 50gb)'
Size has nothing to do with this. And even if it did, there is an old saying: It's not the size of the disc, it's what you do with it. Dual layer HD-DVD was being worked on, so your point is null in that fashion, as that would have made HD-DVD 60GB, though that would have been countered by BluRay probably doing the same to 100GB.

30gb HD-DVDs are already dual-layer, as are 50gb Blu-Rays.  You're likely thinking of their double sided specifications, which double capacity to 60gb and 100gb, respectively.  So far, experimental HD-DVDs have been developed with three layers (51gb) and ten layers (150gb); experimental Blu-Rays have been developed with four layers (100gb), six layers (200gb), and ten layers (250gb).  As far as 'it's what you do with it': they both use the H.264/AVC codec.

[Kitsunexus]

I'd bet that a lot of the people bitching about the quality of their DVDs are comparing 'em between their 42" (or larger) LCD and their 32" (or smaller) CRT.

Hey now, after I changed the aspect ratio I LIKE my new TV.

[Joe Redifer]

Ah man, this seems to be a hot topic.

First of all, 30 GB HD DVD is dual layer.  They were trying for a special tri-layer which would have made it 51GB.  Yes, 51.  Blu-Ray also has a much higher bandwidth than HD DVD (ie: it can read more data at a time, it's like having cable modem vs DSL... or so).  That means higher bitrates for the video and more uncompressed or lossless audio.

DVD is better than LaserDisc in that it is stored in component format whereas LaserDisc is composite AT BEST.  DVD is also 480p and offers a true anamorphic picture.  However any DVD player... actually EVERY DVD player will exhibit compression artifacts.  That's just the nature of the MPEG beast.  It is absolutely impossible to eliminate them.  Some movies will have more than others, etc, but the MPEG2 format is an extremely poor one.  the early DVDs were the worst because they compressed the movie to fit on a single layer.  I hate compression.  I agree with Keranu about the edge enhancement treatment (or sharpness) that many DVDs get these days.  I hate seeing that white halo around contrasting objects in the image.  Unfortunately the studios that do this do it because they actually think it makes the image look sharper or clearer.  They did this with the crappy Star Wars Episode 1 DVD.  Enough people complained to the point where they didn't do it at all or as much for Episodes 2 and 3.

I don't know why people are saying that DVDs look like ass on an HDTV.  They look really good on my HDTV in 480p.  They also look good when upscaled to 1080i on my PS3.  DVDs look good on most TVs, period.  But Blu-Ray looks phuggin' great (depending on the movie, as always).

I don't think I've had DVDs freeze up on me very often, nor a LaserDisc, but it has happened on both formats for me... but never on my own personal discs.

[Kitsunexus]

However any DVD player... actually EVERY DVD player will exhibit compression artifacts.  That's just the nature of the MPEG beast.  It is absolutely impossible to eliminate them.  Some movies will have more than others, etc, but the MPEG2 format is an extremely poor one.

I don't get what you guys mean by artifacts...my Magnavox player has absolutely nothing wrong with it, or maybe I just haven't been looking. Sometimes when things move it looks like they consist of vertical lines, but this only happens on my computer, so I chalked it up to my shitty software DVD decoder.

This brings up an unrelated question, but it has to be asked. Why do DVDs look so shitty on a computer? It looks like you are watching a game of Phantasmagoria someone played that was recorded on one of the very first VHS camcorders.

[Joe Redifer]

If you can't notice the artifacts, you really don't want anyone pointing them out for you or else you will always notice them forever and ever.  But artifacts are things like "mosquito noise" around edges of color, marco blocking, piss-poor gradients, interlacing/deinterlacing artifacts, etc.

DVDs look really good on my computer.

[Kitsunexus]

interlacing/deinterlacing artifacts

I'm guessing that's the one I'm talking about, since I have a vague understanding of what interlacing means thanks to ZSNES, but I'll be honest with you, I didn't understand any of that other stuff.

DVDs look really good on my computer.

But you probably have a zillion-dollar computer.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

This brings up an unrelated question, but it has to be asked. Why do DVDs look so shitty on a computer? It looks like you are watching a game of Phantasmagoria someone played that was recorded on one of the very first VHS camcorders.

I'd guess a combination of crappy decoding software, crappy scaling software (scaling to a display with far higher pixel density than most televisions, no less), and that you're likely sitting much closer to the computer screen than you do to a television.  The optimal distance that you should be from the display (where you can no longer discern individual pixels) is about 7.5 times the picture height.  For a 20" display it's 6'-3", yet it's only 12'-10" for a 42" display.  I'm betting that you don't sit six feet away from your computer monitor.

[Keranu]

No compression

But you have to flip the discs over.

Flipping discs is easy and if that's too much work for 'ya, you can always get a dual sided player. Besides, no compression is worth it!

Looks better than DVDs (especially early ones)

The way you are wording that seems objective, and added in as filler to make the list bigger. WHY does it look better, if that's even true?

It pretty much is objective, but that doesn't stop me personally from prefering the natural, analog look of LD over DVD! There are technical advantages of both, but it's what I think that matters anyways .

Better artwork than DVD

But this is just more objective bullshit of a personal opinion.

Objective, but majority ruled .

No region lockouts

You can look up codes or download firmware that remove region lockout for most players.

That sounds like more of an inconvience than flipping discs!

Discs don't skip or freeze up

If you take care of your shit, shit works. Don't handle your DVDs without a Kleenex (none of that Vicks shit or lotion shit either), and make sure your DVD player is in a cool dry place. They don't put that on the back of the box for their health.

Generally this is true, but as I have said, I had brand new DVDs skip before. Also keep in mind that DVDs are smaller and thus scratches would effect them more than the bigger and badder LDs. You could say that LDs are more prone for scratches since they are bigger, but I've never in my experience had a LD skip and never had to wipe one, unlike DVDs.

Movies that still aren't on DVD

Again, this is subjective because every movie that I have ever wanted has been released on DVD. Also, I'm pretty sure they don't make laserdiscs anymore, so if you see a movie you like in theaters, well, good luck.

You're subjective for only having a limited taste in movies on DVD . I'm going to be un-subjective and say new movies suck.

Some movies that still have better transfers than DVD counterparts

And there are some DVDs that have EXCELLENT transfers. It depends on how good of a job the studio feels is "cost-effective".

And there are lots of LDs that have EXCELLENT transfers!

Movies that always have better transfers than any VHS

But VHS sucks in general, and I don't use it.

And some DVDs suck worse than VHS (The Wizard!).

[Keranu]

If you can't notice the artifacts, you really don't want anyone pointing them out for you or else you will always notice them forever and ever.

Hahaha, so true.

[Kitsunexus]

No region lockouts

You can look up codes or download firmware that remove region lockout for most players.

That sounds like more of an inconvience than flipping discs!

But you only do this one time, and then your player is region-free. You have to flip discs everytime.

[Kitsunexus]

Wait for an official statement from Toshiba themselves before believing this kind of unofficial report.

http://gizmodo.com/357957/toshiba-kills-hd-dvd-official

[Turbo D]

LD pros:

LaserActive turbo pac and genesis pac
Cool record like form
no compression

LD cons:

disk flipping (also like records, haha)
composite quality video


DVD pros:

compact
component quality video
readily available

DVD cons:

artifacts
poor transfers




Winner= Bluray 

[Keranu]

No region lockouts

You can look up codes or download firmware that remove region lockout for most players.

That sounds like more of an inconvience than flipping discs!

But you only do this one time, and then your player is region-free. You have to flip discs everytime.

I remember my bro trying to get firmware on one of his DVD players and couldn't get it to work. Besides, region lockout is just gay to begin with. Flipping a disc takes like half a minute and is usually done at appropriate times. Like I said, I actually like flipping discs because it's a nice time to get up and take a bathroom and refreshment break, like how old theaters used to do. And again, there are dual sided players if you are too troubled to flip a disc .

[Turbo D]

Do LDs' shatter if you drop them? What are they made of?

[Keranu]

Do LDs' shatter if you drop them? What are they made of?

I think it would depend how and where your dropped them, but I would say no generally. Not exactly sure what they're made of.

[Kitsunexus]

I remember my bro trying to get firmware on one of his DVD players and couldn't get it to work.

He must have either:

1. Burned the disc improperly

2. Not followed the instructions

or

3. Put the CD in upside down


because that shit is like second nature.

[Keranu]

But the fact that you have to download files and burn them onto a disc just to make your player region free is stupid. I'm against region lock for anything.

[Kitsunexus]

But the fact that you have to download files and burn them onto a disc just to make your player region free is stupid. I'm against region lock for anything.

Well you don't usually have to unlock APEX or Cyberhome players, but speaking from experience, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. 

[SignOfZeta]

No, I'm being serious. Why does everybody think LD>DVD?

I don't think that LD is better than DVD, I just think that DVD shouldn't have been released until it was totally superior to LD in every single way, like Muse was. In some ways LD is better than DVD, and things shouldn't have turned out that way. HDDVD/BR is superior to LD except for region lock out, copy protection, and cover art. This makes them worth to exist.

Whatever  player you have, it *does* produce artifacting, Major artifacting. Its a problem no DVD player can get rid of. Some players are better than others, but they all produce a night sky with big blocks of crap jumping around in it. If you can't see it, you just can't see it. That doesn't change anything. The almost total lack of artifacting is the best thing about the HD formats for me. The resolution isn't important at all. 640x480 proscan with no artifacts would be good enough for me.

[OldRover]

This thread is pretty funny The number of fanboys here is simply incredible.

Toshiba has still not released a press statement. Sorry, Kitsu, but that website, like all the others, are simply feeding off of the same bogus report. Toshiba's last press release was in January, which was an announcement for their entry into the external HD craze.

Though this whole "format war" is pretty hilarious. What choices...hrm...back Sony or back Toshiba/Microsoft? Hrm...which is the lesser of two evils?

[Nazi NecroPhile]

But the fact that you have to download files and burn them onto a disc just to make your player region free is stupid. I'm against region lock for anything.

In my experience, very few DVD players require a firmware update; the region code is set via the remote control in the service menus.

[guyjin]

But the fact that you have to download files and burn them onto a disc just to make your player region free is stupid. I'm against region lock for anything.

Yeah, that's one of the few benefits of the PS3. Too bad there aren't any games you'd want to import. 

[quoth09]

No region lockouts

You can look up codes or download firmware that remove region lockout for most players.

That sounds like more of an inconvience than flipping discs!

But you only do this one time, and then your player is region-free. You have to flip discs everytime.

Not every player has region-free codes.

[quoth09]

Do LDs' shatter if you drop them? What are they made of?

No. At most they would crack or chip, just like a CD or DVD would if it were heavier. I have never had one break from any kind of drop or anything like that.

To quote wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laserdisc

The standard home video laserdisc is 30 cm (11.81 inches) in diameter and made up of two single-sided aluminum discs layered in plastic and bonded with glue.

[quoth09]

This thread is pretty funny The number of fanboys here is simply incredible.

Toshiba has still not released a press statement. Sorry, Kitsu, but that website, like all the others, are simply feeding off of the same bogus report. Toshiba's last press release was in January, which was an announcement for their entry into the external HD craze.

Though this whole "format war" is pretty hilarious. What choices...hrm...back Sony or back Toshiba/Microsoft? Hrm...which is the lesser of two evils?

http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20080219005651&newsLang=en

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Toshiba has still not released a press statement. Sorry, Kitsu, but that website, like all the others, are simply feeding off of the same bogus report. Toshiba's last press release was in January, which was an announcement for their entry into the external HD craze.

It's over for HD-DVD, and here's the word (straight from the horse's mouth).

[quoth09]

interlacing/deinterlacing artifacts

I'm guessing that's the one I'm talking about, since I have a vague understanding of what interlacing means thanks to ZSNES, but I'll be honest with you, I didn't understand any of that other stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlace
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinterlacing
http://www.videohelp.com/


Go do your own research on this Kitsune. ZSNES is not an example of what interlacing/deinterlacing is. ZSNES uses that as a mock filter. In fact, all of those on there are junk. Interlacing/Deinterlacing is NOT a filter, and all those filters do is make the games look like ass.

DVDs look really good on my computer.

But you probably have a zillion-dollar computer.

...Then I guess myself, Michael, and everyone else I have ever known have 'zillion-dollar' computers. I guess all 5 of my systems are 'zillion-dollar' computers. 
Funny how I spent less on any of them than you did on the one you just bought not too long ago.
I seriously think you need to clean your monitor. PowerDVD and even a 300mhz computer looks good on a DVD with no problems, and that is severely outdated and basic.

BTW, you want to see artifacts? Go watch the first 'The Matrix' DVD that came out back in 1999. Namely the scene where Morpheus is sitting in the corner after Neo threw up. All those blocks and noise is artifacts.
That disc was packed with tons of special features and all kinds of crap, and a result the video severely suffers.

Artifacts are caused by a combination of poor quality encoding, and low bitrates. Think of it as the equivalent to a low quality MP3, just in video form. It's not so common anymore, b/c of dual-layer and the format has evolved and encoding techniques have become much more advanced than they were at the beginning.

Maybe after you see the artifacts on stuff, you will understand what the 'hoopla' is about laserdiscs, and why myself, Michael, Keranu, and several others here have or have had them, and cherish them more than most DVDs. Maybe if you were around when VHS was the dominating format, then you might understand. All full-frame/pan and scan releases, with the exception of a few here and there. At least VHS had no artifacting, even if it was lower resolution, and had less detail.

Just like Keranu said earlier to a response to you saying that 'every movie that I have ever wanted has been released on DVD':
A lot of new movies DO suck. To the point that where I used to go to the theater multiple times in one year, I am barely going now. Hollywood is pumping out nothing but remakes and family oriented crap these days for the most part. With the exception of a few franchises and series, if they stopped making movies tomorrow, I wouldn't be that upset.

[Seldane]

These 3 quotes from this thread alone, prove that you obviously know nothing about movies, movie studios, transfers or anything else about the industry, not to mention you are nothing but a pirate that has no insight past their download speed.

You know why? Because I don't give a damn about movies, and especially not the movie industry (although I would love to witness its downfall). I don't watch movies - with a few (emphasis on few) exceptions. I made this thread because I am THRILLED that a movie format has died.

[quoth09]

These 3 quotes from this thread alone, prove that you obviously know nothing about movies, movie studios, transfers or anything else about the industry, not to mention you are nothing but a pirate that has no insight past their download speed.

You know why? Because I don't give a damn about movies, and especially not the movie industry (although I would love to witness its downfall). I don't watch movies - with a few (emphasis on few) exceptions. I made this thread because I am THRILLED that a movie format has died.

Thanks for proving my point for me.
Now, go scuttle on back to Pirate's Bay.

[Seldane]

Thanks for proving my point for me.
Now, go scuttle on back to Pirate's Bay.

Way ahead of you. See you there?

[Ceti Alpha]

Way ahead of you. See you there?

I'm more of a mininova guy. But Piratebay is OK too.

DVDs are really just too expensive to buy regularly, at least for me - I'd personally rather spend my coin on PCE/Turbo games.    DVDs have not really gone down in price at all. Though Walmart and Best Buy have pretty good prices on old stuff. Now that Blu Ray is the official standard, we can look forward to even more inflated prices. 

[GUTS]

You guys should all just do Netflix, I haven't wasted money on a DVD or Blu-ray in ages (blu-rays I've never bought, period).  I don't know why people continue to buy movies when there's netflix (except for seasons or box sets, I can totally understand why people would still buy them).  Blu-rays are fucking expensive, I don't think I would ever buy one brand new, the only one I own is The Simpsons Movie and I got that one for super cheap off some guy.

[OldRover]

Okay, NOW the official press release has come out. So NOW, we can OFFICIALLY say that HD-DVD is dead. FINALLY.

[PCEngineFX]

You guys should all just do Netflix, I haven't wasted money on a DVD or Blu-ray in ages (blu-rays I've never bought, period).  I don't know why people continue to buy movies when there's netflix (except for seasons or box sets, I can totally understand why people would still buy them).  Blu-rays are fucking expensive, I don't think I would ever buy one brand new, the only one I own is The Simpsons Movie and I got that one for super cheap off some guy.

I'm in the same boat at GUTS here - I've been a Netflix user for years and love them.  My deal is 2 out at a time/unlimited rentals a month, online "watch it now" viewing (also unlimited), Blu-ray rentals...Japanese imports...anime....they got it all.  use DVDfab to do an easy VOB rip of whatever I want....I'll only now buy Blu-ray movies if I really love the film (don't buy DVDs anymore).