Why has the world forgotten Military Madness/Nectaris?

[Lord Thag]

I've been playing MM on my turbo, and it's even more fun than I remember it being. It's far deeper than the more modern clones like Advance Wars in so many ways. The myriad different units, the excellent hex based system that takes into account support and surrounding. All of this stuff is way ahead of it's time, and it's FAR more challenging than any it's 'modern' decendants.

In short, this game is by far the best console stragtegy game I've played. It's challenging, easy to pick up, really hard to master, and the presentation is excellent.

Why did the world forget this game?

[nectarsis]

It came to early IMHO.  In Japan, tactical/srpgs were around for awhile.  They didn't take off hardcore until Advance Wars/FF Tactics/Fire Emblem/etc. took off.

[NecroPhile]

I think it's ignored because it's too challenging for the many gamers that loathe to see a game over screen.  Sadly, few people nowadays seem interested in games that require real strategy and forethought, rather than amassing a huge army and overwhelming the enemy.

[nat]

Military Madness is one of the handful of US games I don't have, and I have actually never played. 

I do like the Langrisser/Warsong series from the 16- & 32-bit era, as well as Power Dolls on the PC-FX so I might take a liking to MM.

[Lord Thag]

 

Really? Yeah, you really need to play it. I like it better than Warsong (which I'm assuming is the same as the US port for genesis ... was it?). What I really like about MM is that, while the game is brutal at times, it never forces you into winning a scenario one way. Advance Wars does that all the time to artificially inflate difficulty. You have to figure out the 'trick' for the level, and there is no other way to beat it.

MM/Nectaris allows you to do all kinds of things in most scenarios, while (amazingly) preventing you from using cheap strategies to 'quick win' a scenario. The music is great, the graphics are perfect for this type of game, and there is an entire extra campaign to play if you (snicker) beat the first one. A quick code allows you to switch sides, so there is literally years worth of gameplay on that tiny little Hucard.

Another thing I like is that each force (axis/allies) have different 'flavors'. There are several different kinds of tanks and planes, and each side has units that they primarily use. The Axis side, for example, usually gets those !?$@?! Hunter fighter/bombers, as well as the Titan and Slagger tanks, while you (the Allies) get the Polar and Grizzly tanks, as well as two seperate fighter / bomber units.

The short version is that the forces play similarly to what you would see in World War II. Each side has the same class of units, but each unit is very different from each other, with it's own strengths and weaknesses, even incorporating older 'out of date' technology at times (the Lennet tank). It adds a whole other level of strategy not found in other games. The 'super' units like the Giant and Atlas are also incredibly fun to  use if you can bring them to bear.

All in all, it's my favorite strategy game ever. If you haven't tried it, Nat, you are missing one of the best strategy games ever made. Damn good stuff!

[runinruder]

I like Military Madness, but I like Macross Eternal Love Song a lot more.  (Anyone who enjoys Langrisser should try ELS, btw). 

I'd say MM is one of the "least forgotten" TG16 games, actually.  It always seems to get mentioned when dopey sites or magazines "look back" at the system and the know-nothing authors try to show how cool and knowledgeable they are.  The Crushes also come up a lot in these sorts of "features."

[Lord Thag]

Yeah, that's true. It does get mentioned a lot in the 'mags. That's actually why I find it strange. It DOES get mentioned a lot, but no one (other than the crappy cell port) seems to be interested in porting or re-imagining the franchise, which I find odd. It would be the perfect Sony/PSP counterpoint to Advance Wars, which is one of the best selling DS/GBA games.

It's far better than many of those tiresome strategy rpgs, and much more suited to a portable system. Don't get me wrong, Disgaea on the PSP is tops, but I'd play MM a lot more. The former requires way too much time.

[spenoza]

Frankly, I'm kinda glad they have resisted the urge to update MM to the "modern era". Many retro conversions to modern 3D really get chewed up and spit back out, the final product not looking anything like what it started as. It's available on Wii VC and I think that's probably good enough for now.

[handygrafx]

I love Military Madness / Nectaris. 

It was the first turn-based strategy game I ever played.  I spent countless hours during 1990 & 1991 playing  turn-based Military Madness and real-time Herzog Zwei on Genesis.

In 1994 I imported Neo Nectaris for my Duo, and while it wasn't the perfection that the original was,
I still liked it.

Then in 1998 or 1998 I got the PlayStation version. I was pretty disappointed with it. I no longer have it and I regret getting rid of it, just because there something good about every Nectaris game, I'll have to find a copy again.

Overall I think Military Madness (the original game and series as a whole)  is a far better experience than the Advance Wars games, and actually, any of the Intelligent Systems developed titles in the Nintendo Wars series.  Hudson did handle at least  one of the  GameBoy Wars  titles, though and it was more like Nectaris/MM.

Future:

I am craving new Military Madness / Nectaris games for both the DS and Wii.  If such an amazing thing were to happen, I'd hope they'd have a wide range connectivity features, both locally/wirelessly and online over the internet via WiFi.   Example:    DS to DS  - Wii to Wii - DS to Wii, etc.    A DS Nectaris would take full advantage of the dual-screen, touch screen, microphone, wireless and WiFi.    A Wii Nectaris would not have to take full advantage of the motion sensing capabilities, but merely use the pointer, WiFi and reasonable 3D graphics that Wii offers.    The DS version should be done with sprites, with sprite-based 2D battle animations while the Wii version could offer larger more detailed sprites and smooth 3D battle animations.    Because the DS's 3D capabilities are roughly on par with PS1 and N64, I wouldn't want a repeat of the awful looking 3D battles of PS1 Nectaris.

Present:
For now, I'm getting into R-Type Tactics for PSP which is by far the closest thing to Nectaris / Military Madness that's been released in a very long time.  No it's not exactly like MM, but it is turn-based, it uses hexes, unlike AW, and it's slow-paced, similar in feel to Neo Nectaris or PS1 Nectaris.  It's very addictive, and yes it's out now.

[Lord Thag]

 

R-Type tactics is out!? *runs to game store*

[hoobs88]

I got Military Madness in a game lot. I popped it in my system real quick and after seeing the hexes, decided not to play it and moved on to the other games.  After leaving positive feedback for the seller, he responded by asking if I had tried Military Madness which was his favorite game. I had also noticed how popular it was on ebay and gave it another chance...I was hooked. I even got Neo Nectaris but didn't get too far before I discovered the Advance Wars: Days of Ruin game on the DS was similar and got hooked on it. I still prefer the hex based strategy style with support shots and flanking. Days of Ruin has a fantastic storyline and even though it was much easier than Military Madness, the introduction of new units in each map kept it fresh. Now that I have finished it, I will definitely go back to Military Madness and Neo Nectaris because I have not forgotten my roots.

[handygrafx]

I got Military Madness in a game lot. I popped it in my system real quick and after seeing the hexes, decided not to play it and moved on to the other games.  After leaving positive feedback for the seller, he responded by asking if I had tried Military Madness which was his favorite game. I had also noticed how popular it was on ebay and gave it another chance...I was hooked. I even got Neo Nectaris but didn't get too far before I discovered the Advance Wars: Days of Ruin game on the DS was similar and got hooked on it. I still prefer the hex based strategy style with support shots and flanking. Days of Ruin has a fantastic storyline and even though it was much easier than Military Madness, the introduction of new units in each map kept it fresh. Now that I have finished it, I will definitely go back to Military Madness and Neo Nectaris because I have not forgotten my roots.

Glad you have both Military Madness and Neo Nectaris,  I enjoy both alot.     There is also a Japanese freeware  port of Nectaris for Windows 95/98  (it'll work on XP), which offers superior music/audio and very intuitive mouse support.

https://nfggames.com/games/nectaris/Nectaris_Win95.rar

Once you figure out how to install it (it can be tricky, or it can also be easy, depends on your PC) it's a piece of cake to play since you're already used to the interface (and Neo Nectaris) even though it's in Japanese.

[Mobius]

Military Madness forgotten?  Not quite... It lives on in spirit with Advance Wars.

Which actually begs the question, did the Wars series rip off Military Madness, or did Military Madness rip off the Wars series?  I know there was an SNES Wars, but was there an NES Wars before that?

[nectarsis]

Thw Wars series started on the Gameboy/Famicom, so it predates MM.

[Mobius]

Oh, right, Famicom Wars and Super Famicom Wars, not NES/SNES Wars... I knew that!

Gotta say, though, I think I actually prefer the grid battlefield to the hex one.  It's too hard to figure out the attack and movement range for the units in Military Madness.

[handygrafx]

I prefer the hex-based movements of Military Madness, over the grid-based movements of Advance Wars.

What seperates Military Madness from most other hex-based games, is the unit support for defense & offense and ZOC  (zone-of-control).  I love those mechanics, and they're what helps to make MM so damn ADDICTIVE and FUN.

R-Type Tactics, while hex-based, does not have those other features of the Nectaris/MM series.

[esteban]

I guess you could say that I like the Nectaris / Military Madness games.

handygrafx, I used to have extra copies of the PlayStation game but I gave them away years ago. I'd send you one now if I still had one.

One thing that I've wanted to do for a long time was to get the music from the PlayStation version and make them available for fellow fans. I remember asking folks about this and they explained that ripping tunes from PSX games was not the easiest thing to do (this was many moons ago, maybe it is easier now?).

I would love to hear from folks who have the Gameboy version of Nectaris.... two carts that I've had did not save because the batteries were bad. This simply prevents you from saving mid-stage, forcing you to leave your gameboy on when (if!) you take a break from some of the epic, long stages.

Unfortunately, the Gameboy version doesn't uses hexes... blah, blah, blah, I could go on for ages.

IIRC: I think my first posts here and magicengine were about Neo Nectaris. Ha!

[hoobs88]

I also picked up "Panzer Tactics" for the DS which is hex based. But way too confusing to play.

[Lord Thag]

A friend of mine just called and informed me he found a copy of the PS1 Nectaris. I love Fridays 

I really like the ZOC/Support options of the MM games. Rtype Command does not have that, but it has several other features that make up for it (multiple attacks per unit, forces etc). I'm really enjoying both.

Military Madness is still my favorite. It's quick, challenging, and has a ton of depth. I want a new one!

[spenoza]

I really think the best thing about Military Madness is that there was depth but it didn't overdo it. I never had so much to keep track of, so much going on that I was completely overwhelmed just managing my own forces. I was frequently overwhelmed by the enemy because I was a dumbass in how I approached a mission, but never because I couldn't get a handle on my own forces.

It was nice to have to think without having to hold way too much information in my head. That balance can be really hard for these tactical games to strike, and MM did it fairly well.

[handygrafx]

A friend of mine just called and informed me he found a copy of the PS1 Nectaris. I love Fridays 

Congrats on securing a copy of PS1 Nectaris: Military Madness.

I really like the ZOC/Support options of the MM games. Rtype Command does not have that, but it has several other features that make up for it (multiple attacks per unit, forces etc). I'm really enjoying both.

I could not agree more, you're absolutely right      People that understand these games know how good these features are.  I mean ZOC/support options in the Nectaris games, as well as the new offensive/defensive moves in RType Command (which I am just getting used too now).

Military Madness is still my favorite. It's quick, challenging, and has a ton of depth. I want a new one!

Indeed.   The original Military Madness is still my favorite, even above Neo Nectaris, PS1 Nectaris, the entire Nintendo Wars series which includes the Advance Wars series,    Panzer General series and RType Command.

The only strategy game I enjoy more than Military Madness is Herzog Zwei on Genesis, but that's a completely different type of strategy game.


BTW your review of RTC was very exellent, really appreciate it 

[handygrafx]

handygrafx, I used to have extra copies of the PlayStation game but I gave them away years ago. I'd send you one now if I still had one.

Thanks esteban, I appreciate the thought.  I'll have to wait for a copy to show up on ebay.   That said, I am REALLY REALLY glad I did not sell my copy of Neo Nectaris.

[handygrafx]

I really think the best thing about Military Madness is that there was depth but it didn't overdo it. I never had so much to keep track of, so much going on that I was completely overwhelmed just managing my own forces. I was frequently overwhelmed by the enemy because I was a dumbass in how I approached a mission, but never because I couldn't get a handle on my own forces.

It was nice to have to think without having to hold way too much information in my head. That balance can be really hard for these tactical games to strike, and MM did it fairly well.

I agree. Military Madness did it very well.  It's such a great game because it is SIMPLE,  FAST,  the graphics and animation are nice, very decent for a game like this. Whereas, other, newer strategy games on more powerful systems, often look worse than the Hudson's 1989 masterpiece on the PCE/TG16.    The gameplay mechanics are simple, solid, addictive, fun.   Like you said, you're not overwhelmed with information. You can focus at the battle at hand.   I really did not truly love Advance Wars (AW, AW2, AW:DS) that much. It's a good series, but couldn't get into it as much because of the lack of support/ZOC, hex-grid, and although AW series is fairly simple, its not as completely simple as the Nectaris series.


I sure do hope Hudson releases a new game or games in the series.  The Nintendo DS was practically created for a modern Nectaris/Military Madness game.

[Hobo Xiphas]

i have not forgotten

I prefer the hex-based movements of Military Madness, over the grid-based movements of Advance Wars.

hell yae

What seperates Military Madness from most other hex-based games, is the unit support for defense & offense and ZOC  (zone-of-control).  I love those mechanics, and they're what helps to make MM so damn ADDICTIVE and FUN.

hell no

I really think the best thing about Military Madness is that there was depth but it didn't overdo it.

HELL NO

I agree. Military Madness did it very well.  It's such a great game because it is SIMPLE,  FAST,  the graphics and animation are nice, very decent for a game like this. Whereas, other, newer strategy games on more powerful systems, often look worse than the Hudson's 1989 masterpiece on the PCE/TG16.    The gameplay mechanics are simple, solid, addictive, fun.   Like you said, you're not overwhelmed with information. You can focus at the battle at hand.   I really did not truly love Advance Wars (AW, AW2, AW:DS) that much. It's a good series, but couldn't get into it as much because of the lack of support/ZOC, hex-grid, and although AW series is fairly simple, its not as completely simple as the Nectaris series.

OH HELL NAW

you guys may remember but you remember wrong about most things

[CrackTiger]

Recently I've been thinking that its Turbo fans who have forgotten MM/Nectaris. The games are rarely discussed and it seems most people haven't bothered to try Neo Nectaris.

I tried the Gameboy Nectaris, but was really turned off by the map grid and non-visuals. A few of the music tracks turned out very well, while the rest didn't.

Anyone interested in Nectaris for Playstation should pick up the affordable japanese version.

[Hobo Xiphas]

I'll admit that Military Madness is pretty fun but to compare it to the modern games and say that it is MUCH BETTER is pretty silly.

Military Madness is pretty primitive in mechanics, you can have simple without being bare bones.

[esteban]

I'll admit that Military Madness is pretty fun but to compare it to the modern games and say that it is MUCH BETTER is pretty silly.

Military Madness is pretty primitive in mechanics, you can have simple without being bare bones.

I'm actually going to go off on a rant, but please do not take offense to it, because, honestly, it is not directed at you. I just share handygrafx's critique of many "strategy games" and wanted to share it here.

To think that modern games are much better than older ones is pretty silly. Sure, old crusty strategy titles could benefit from the refinements and improved "flow of the game" that we see today, but where's the beef?

For example, the Advance Wars series, and I've played them all, is pretty lame compared to Nectaris / MM, let alone Neo Nectaris (Neo has many subtle refinements). Strip away the fluff of AW (and many contemporary games) and, as handygrafx pointed out, the PUZZLE SOLVING element is severely lacking.

I know lots of folks will get pissed at this, but too many modern games have the strategy of RISK (which is a great board game) + resource-management and/or real-time to try to flesh them out and make them appear meaty. I ask you, where is the beef?

Advance Wars = RISK. Nectaris / MM transcends RISK.

Nectaris is, essentially, a closed system with few opportunities to magically re-plenish (re-spawn) your troops outside of factories. There are stricter limitations on your ability to replenish your troops, which is really nice. Personally, I think this adds a lot of drama and fun to the game... when you lose an entire unit, you actually FEEL the loss, because that unit will never come back. If you're lucky, though, at least one troop from a unit might survive--this survivor has the potential to be replenished in a factory, but usually you have to devise a defensive strategy to ensure that this happens (the AI loves to pick off weak, fleeing troops).

In the more difficult later stages, EVERY GODDAM UNIT is treasured. Sure, you'll have to sacrifice some of them, but when you do it is deliberate and they truly feel like a SACRIFICE.

I love games that force you to conserve and appreciate limited resources. It creates a gritty, desperate atmosphere that forces you to be frugal.  This is the type of "resource management" that appeals to me. This isn't RISK, or countless RTS titles, where you have an "endless" supply of troops. I don't care if you are required to mine for gold... cranking troops out of the factory like it was the Super-Industrial-Revolution makes them disposable. These troops are mass-produced widgets. Cannon fodder.

I don't think battles are more epic simply because the number of troops involved (and the subsequent death toll) is high.

You get the idea.

I know most folks won't agree with me, but that's OK. I have peculiar tastes at times.

It's fun to rant

[spenoza]

Well, MM/Nectaris is, appropriately, a tactics game, not a strategy game. You manage finite resources in a set of closed scenarios. Within those scenarios, the mechanics of combat, ZOC/support, terrain, experience, are all complex elements. The layout of the scenario creates added complexity. But because there are usually only so many units and unit types on the map, and no way to produce additional resources, simplicity is fostered.

[Lord Thag]

I know most folks won't agree with me, but that's OK. I have peculiar tastes at times.

It's fun to rant

I completely agree with you! That's the whole reason I posted this thread. Saying newer games are automatically better is just silly. Sure, many of them are, but being new does not automatically equate to being better. The reason, for the most part, is that video games are far more mainstream now. As such, they tend to cater to the lowest common denominator, and be, on the whole, generally easier than some of the older titles. Sure, there are plenty of fantastic new titles out there, but there are also a lot of games that are more de-evolutions of older games.

MM/Nectaris is an example of a game that's vastly superior to it's modern counterparts. Esteban hit it on the head. The finely tuned map layouts, the excellent ZOC/support mechanics, and the irreplacability of your units makes MM far superior to it's modern knockoffs like Advance Wars and Field Commander. MM also never seems to fall into the trap that AW does by forcing you to beat scenario only one way.

All of that makes it a fantastic game, and much better than the more modern titles, even in it lacks the visual and audio polish of the newer titles.

[guyjin]

Recently I've been thinking that its Turbo fans who have forgotten MM/Nectaris.

Well, a lot of turbo fans are shmup fiends, so a slow paced game like Nectaris may not be their cup of tea.

[ShinobiMan]

I love Military Madness. I was first introduced to the TG16 when I was around 6 years old. My friend across the street owned the system, and the only game his Dad was interested in playing was Military Madness. I remember often watching his father play the game, waiting patiently for "our" turn to play (usually Bonk's Revenge). I never understood the game back then, but years later when I finally picked up a copy of my own, I realized why it was so addicting. Good times!

[JoshTurboTrollX]

I couldn't imagine forgetting Military Madness.  I picked up Nectaris recently, and once my chopado comes in the mail, its pretty much a LOCK to get the first and most play time of the HuCards that I currently own.  Back in the day I owned and played the crap out of the original, NEO Nectaris, and the Playstation release!

Ah... memories!

[Arkhan Asylum]

its not that theyve forgotten, its that alot of people just have NFI about anything that doesnt say NINTENDO/SEGA on it and is from before the Playstation era.


It's one of the nicest strategy games I've ever played.  I put it with my other top games:

Sword of Aragon, Dragonforce, Valkyria Chronicles, and Dark Wizard

[MotherGunner]

Definitely not forgotten.  I am proud to say I own PS1 Nectaris, Neo Nectaris, and Military Madness.   I even like the recent PSN release.

In addition, I like to play anything related such as my treasured copies of Dai Sen Ryaku which I currenly own II on PC Engine, and VII on Ps2 and Xbox (Both US)  These games are killer if you havent tried them btw and very cheap to come by.  And of course Advance Wars. 

Also, the company I work for owns this game and if you love hex games like MM, and can't get enough, I recommend it for a quick game here and there.  Check it out!  =)

http://www.weewar.com/

Edit:  I forgot to mention I also bought the cell phone release and enjoyed it.

[Eltigro]

I have Military Madness.  Back in the day, my best friend and I actually got into fights over this game playing two player.  Great game.

[CrackTiger]

Military Madness and Neo Nectaris are two of what I think of as "perfect" games. Games that would more than reach a perfect score for me and have a special timeless quality. Same goes for Shining Force I, II, III Sc 1 - 3 + P and CD.

[esteban]

Military Madness and Neo Nectaris are two of what I think of as "perfect" games. Games that would more than reach a perfect score for me and have a special timeless quality. Same goes for Shining Force I, II, III Sc 1 - 3 + P and CD.

All of those games should be forgotten, as far as I am concerned.