Censoring / Sanitizing North American Games

[esteban]

For anyone who's played Final Zone II in English (I only seen the clip in Japanese language.)

What did Momoko say to Bowie that made him slap her?

It wasn't quite as raw/uncalled for as many here remember it. Bowie actually slaps Momoko because she says that he's being manipulated by the military and that "Someday, you'll end up like my brother", who by all accounts died right in front of them in an explosion.

Velda/Verda and Bowie were comrades-in-arms and clearly close personal friends. Bowie was pissed because he felt Momoko dishonored her brother's sacrifice and loyalty to the military.

Dude, if you're living in the stone-ages, assaulting Momoko might not have been "uncalled" for. But by any standard, the Bowie we know and love should be able to deal with his feelings and emotions -- no matter how  hurt he feels by Momoko -- and not resort to violence. Channel that violence against Ruman, Bowie!    Momoko friggin' loves you Bowie -- she even went to the trouble of recording a SONG FOR YOU -- you don't hit the ones you love!

That said, I would not want this scene to be censored, by any means. It is much more interesting to see Bowie as a flawed, violent, even sexist, character. So, the problem is not that Bowie assaulted Momoko (this is clearly wrong), but the problem is any attempt to justify or legitimate his assault.

Emperor Megas (love that handle, by the way ), I totally appreciate your point and I think it is very important: we do need to have a better understanding of Bowie's motivations and his state of mind when he slaps Momoko) -- but I would stop there.  I wouldn't suggest that "she had it coming", lest I open a can whoop ass on you

I hope you don't think I was too harsh on you, I tried to ease up on the sermonizing . And I really do think you made a great contribution -- I'm totally incorporating your point into the article. Thanks!

[GUTS]

Steve that's japanese culture for you though, from watching a bajillion samurai movies I gather that when someone dishonors you or your brother you're allowed to slap the shit out of them, hell she's lucky he didn't kill her on the spot regardless of who she was, haha.  That scene completely rules, I miss the days when that kind of shit could fly.  I mean we have in-your-face blood and guts now, but nothing as wickedly awesome as exploding Hitler or the Bowie slap.

[esteban]

Steve that's japanese culture for you though, from watching a bajillion samurai movies I gather that when someone dishonors you or your brother you're allowed to slap the shit out of them, hell she's lucky he didn't kill her on the spot regardless of who she was, haha.  That scene completely rules, I miss the days when that kind of shit could fly.  I mean we have in-your-face blood and guts now, but nothing as wickedly awesome as exploding Hitler or the Bowie slap.

I totally agree! But it's not just Japanese culture: face-slapping was big in U.S. pop culture as well! And the desire to face-slap a woman has always been firmly entrenched in U.S. culture for a long time (i.e. The Honeymooners!).

What's funny is that FZII, as a game, sucks. But there is so much to still appreciate about it (I love the music, and some of the scenes are pretty kool -- like the confrontation with Ruman at the end).

Of course, the Bowie-Momoko Face Slap cannot be topped.

[GUTS]

Haha the Honeymooners was AWESOME, I loved how he was always THIS close to slapping the shit out of Alice just because she was right and he was wrong.  That is one of the few old comedies that holds up well today I think, the jokes were pretty timeless and obviously very groundbreaking.  I just watched a bunch of episodes last summer and they were just as funny to me as Seinfeld, Cheers, or Newsradio (that show rocked!).

[esteban]

Haha the Honeymooners was AWESOME, I loved how he was always THIS close to slapping the shit out of Alice just because she was right and he was wrong.  That is one of the few old comedies that holds up well today I think, the jokes were pretty timeless and obviously very groundbreaking.  I just watched a bunch of episodes last summer and they were just as funny to me as Seinfeld, Cheers, or Newsradio (that show rocked!).

Honeymooners RULED. I totally agree. Another show that still holds up well is "I Love Lucy", though I think that Honymooners has a much better cast of characters. I liked Newsradio, too, though it isn't nearly as great as Seinfeld (Seinfeld's characters have much more depth, in my opinion). Cheers (and to a lesser extent, Frasier) are classic.

At night, I take a break from work and watch Just Shoot Me (it's on a midnight here)... I was mildly amused by this show when it originally aired, but I have much more respect for it now. I think it really, really rocks. Why? A pretty awesome cast of characters who are allowed who have some depth, even though it does't appear so on the surface.

[CrackTiger]

What's funny is that FZII, as a game, sucks. But there is so much to still appreciate about it (I love the music, and some of the scenes are pretty kool -- like the confrontation with Ruman at the end).

Of course, the Bowie-Momoko Face Slap cannot be topped.

The best example I can think of is Golden Axe PCE. I love it, it was the first CD game I ever saw and was one of the first 3 bought. Regardless of how bad the ingame aesthetics and challenge may be, finishing it and watching the ending cinemas is more rewarding than most games.

That's the appeal of so many Turbo games, as well as a lot of PCE titles.

We may not have received the best games from Japan, but most Turbo games always had some kind of cool factor to make up for imperfections.

Final Lap Twin wasn't the best arcade style racer, but it's one of favorites. Motoroader & Bomberman look like homebrew games, but anyone who's actually given them a chance knows how addictive they are.

Valis II and Red Alert wouldn't be the same if you stripped them of cinemas and CD music.

But its not like it is nowadays, with games being all about looks and becoming barely interactive movies. The Final Fantasy series(excluding XI) isn't even RPG anymore. Snatcher is more interactive than FFX.

[GUTS]

Final Fantasy X ruled man, awesome game!  It always irks me when people call FF games "interactive movies" when they have quite a bit of depth if you bother to actually play them.  Somebody made an actual DVD of all the movies and cinematics in FFX and it was about 3-4 hours long, that's out of a 40+ hour game, so that's only 10% of the time you're watching something intstead of playing it.

Snatcher was a great game too, I don't see where the level of interactivety and amount of cinematics has any relation to how fun a game is.  Hell, simple point & click games like Monkey Island are some of the best games I've ever played.

[Keranu]

A Keelan quick post:

Final Zone II - Doesn't suck, rules. The Bowie slap is a classic and I loved ever second of it!

Honeymooners - AWESOME!

Cheers - One of my favorite sitcoms, at least the first half Shelly Long instead of the other bitch Kirstie Alley.

Point and click adventures - Totally rule, but the traditional graphic and text adventures (such as King's Quest) are even better.

[CrackTiger]

Final Fantasy X ruled man, awesome game!  It always irks me when people call FF games "interactive movies" when they have quite a bit of depth if you bother to actually play them.  Somebody made an actual DVD of all the movies and cinematics in FFX and it was about 3-4 hours long, that's out of a 40+ hour game, so that's only 10% of the time you're watching something intstead of playing it.

Snatcher was a great game too, I don't see where the level of interactivety and amount of cinematics has any relation to how fun a game is.  Hell, simple point & click games like Monkey Island are some of the best games I've ever played.

I also loved cinematic games(like Snatcher).

My point was that emphasis has been put more so on aesthetics over gameplay as years go by.

Final Fantasy is the best example, because if you remove the cinemas from the few games that have any, you can see than overall depth of gameplay has been going down a slippery slope from FFVII onward(although IX seemed better than XIII), where as leading up to FFVI, it was just the opposite.

And this is what has setup gaming in a very dangerous predicament leading up to the next generation. Casual gamers now rule, they're the market. And they judge games by budget just like movies. And now only big time developers are going to be able to afford to develop games that take advantage of the 3D power of new consoles.

What this should mean, is that we finally get awesome 2D games again, but somehow I don't think thats going to be the case.

I just hope that publishers start to look at ways of making money in general, not just risky smash hits. Because just as Nintendo can afford to make its own games for its own system, any publisher can make good money putting out a good 2D game, like recent Castlevanias, because it'll cost way less of a fraction to develop than it will proportionately earn in sales.

[Keranu]

I totally agree with your Final Fantasy post about the gameplay getting worse. Not only that, but the stories and characters have just gotten so fucking retarded that I'm not sure if I could keep tolerating them because they just sort of get gayer as each one comes out. Even though that isn't a very fair judgement, but I mean damn , characters like Tidus? I thought Squall and the rest of the retards in FFVIII were worse enough.

[GUTS]

Haha well we're on opposite sides there, I thought X had an awesome story and great characters.  Plus there was just so much to do, I spend a good 15 hours at the end of the game just playing around finding stuff and exploring, it was equal to or more fun that I'd had with any other RPG out there.

My idea of games going down the tubes is shit like Dead to Rights (the incredibly cliched 3rd person shitfest shooter trying to be "HARD"), Tom Clancy games (repackaging the exact same fucking game and releasing it 2-3 times a year) and pretty much anything made by EA (complete lack of polish and qaulity control, basically Acclaim but with sports games that actually sell).

[neokellyzero]

I just hope that publishers start to look at ways of making money in general, not just risky smash hits. Because just as Nintendo can afford to make its own games for its own system, any publisher can make good money putting out a good 2D game, like recent Castlevanias, because it'll cost way less of a fraction to develop than it will proportionately earn in sales.

I think this may be the case in the near future-  If you look at fashion and music it seems that many of the popular styles and themes tend to be recycled about every 20 years-  The same may be true to some extent in the gaming industry.  Think about it-  2-d gaming was really at it's height in '86-'94.  In theory nostalgia should start setting in on a larger scale within the next five years, and we should see a pop in the demand and manufacture of quality 2-d gaming-

[CrackTiger]

I just hope that publishers start to look at ways of making money in general, not just risky smash hits. Because just as Nintendo can afford to make its own games for its own system, any publisher can make good money putting out a good 2D game, like recent Castlevanias, because it'll cost way less of a fraction to develop than it will proportionately earn in sales.

I think this may be the case in the near future-  If you look at fashion and music it seems that many of the popular styles and themes tend to be recycled about every 20 years-  The same may be true to some extent in the gaming industry.  Think about it-  2-d gaming was really at it's height in '86-'94.  In theory nostalgia should start setting in on a larger scale within the next five years, and we should see a pop in the demand and manufacture of quality 2-d gaming-

I hope that we get industries within the industry, like with death metal. Death metal fans are loyal, I download free mp3's to try out albums and if I like them I buy the CD, and the scene thrives on its own.

There's a huge market not only for 2D and just plain good games, but also retro games. If someone put out a new spec defying PCE CD games, which would cost like nothing for a real developer and it got actual promotion and magazine coverage, it would sell more than well enough to make a good enough profit.

But lets take it even further. Do you think that anyone would buy a brand new reprint of Dracula X, possible with bonus materials, for $30? It wouldn't cost Konami a dime to develop and they'd make a killing even if they sold it for $5 a pop.

But its a slap in the face that most companies refuse to even put old content on new platforms and when they do, charge a lot for a little.

Thats why the Capcom Classic Collection is so cool.

[TR0N]

But lets take it even further. Do you think that anyone would buy a brand new reprint of Dracula X, possible with bonus materials, for $30? It wouldn't cost Konami a dime to develop and they'd make a killing even if they sold it for $5 a pop.

But its a slap in the face that most companies refuse to even put old content on new platforms and when they do, charge a lot for a little.

Thats why the Capcom Classic Collection is so cool.

Nuff said Midway,Atari,Namco and Capcom don't have problems with putting out collections.

You think, Konami would jump on the band wagon by now.

Still they refuse and don't want... to listen to fans for some reason

[CrackTiger]

But lets take it even further. Do you think that anyone would buy a brand new reprint of Dracula X, possible with bonus materials, for $30? It wouldn't cost Konami a dime to develop and they'd make a killing even if they sold it for $5 a pop.

But its a slap in the face that most companies refuse to even put old content on new platforms and when they do, charge a lot for a little.

Thats why the Capcom Classic Collection is so cool.

Nuff said Midway,Atari,Namco and Capcom don't have problems with putting out collections.

You think, Konami would jump on the band wagon by now.

Still they refuse and don't want... to listen to fans for some reason

Thats the thing, they have put out collections of like 30 mostly boring games for psx & saturn in japan. If they charged like $10 for these things it'd be fine.

The closest they've come to to Capcom's generations is stuff like Salamander Deluxe pack for Saturn and Castlevania Chronicles for PSX.

But they didn't include the Gradius' in one nor the Nintendo 8 & 16-bit Castlevanias in the other. I mean, we're talking like 1 meg of disc space for a product that they aren't selling elsewhere commercially(and as such is legal to emulate in the U.S.).

If they want to sell old games as singles, then it would be nice to get them in their original format. Famiclones wouldn't be made if there wasn't a huge demand for them.

Imagine if some licensed out the PCE Duo and got it down to like half the size of a Sega CDX and sold it for $100. As much as collectors push up prices on Duo systems, there's enough of us who actually play the games to sell out new hardware.

A company was supposed to release an NES style Famiclone in the U.S. this month that plays both NES & Famicom game. I wonder if Nintendo managed to stop it before any got out.

http://www.playmessiah.com/index2.htm

They've got some cool accessroies for NES & SNES.

[Ninja Spirit]

Nintendo didn't intervene, in fact from what I heard Nintendo actually gave Messiah the green light. Besides, the NES patent's 15 years is up, or for that matter "BEEN up". That Generation NEX is a pretty slick and maybe more durable than those fragile Famiclones from Hong Kong.

My biggest concern is that if the system will play the music in Akumajo Densetsu correctly.

And they might be at Gamestops, because on their site, they were on preorder.

Alot of people are already lamenting the price of the system too being 60. But that's because in the GNEX, it also has some new school quirks added to it, wireless controllers and rumble feature.

[CrackTiger]

Nintendo didn't intervene, in fact from what I heard Nintendo actually gave Messiah the green light. Besides, the NES patent's 15 years is up, or for that matter "BEEN up". That Generation NEX is a pretty slick and maybe more durable than those fragile Famiclones from Hong Kong.

My biggest concern is that if the system will play the music in Akumajo Densetsu correctly.

And they might be at Gamestops, because on their site, they were on preorder.

Alot of people are already lamenting the price of the system too being 60. But that's because in the GNEX, it also has some new school quirks added to it, wireless controllers and rumble feature.

I first read about it in Retro magazine where they made a couple of comments about Nintendo trying to stop it.

If 15 years(why is music 50?) is all that you get for a patent in the U.S., then why isn't someone whipping up some hi-tech Turboduos already?

I'd gladly pay $60 U.S, for a NEX. I'd also pay as much for a Turbo Dux as the real deal if it'd be more reliable and wireless(but this is one system that should get the S-Video upgrade).

[GUTS]

^^ Probably because the games are so hard to find, where NES games are dirt cheap and everywhere.

[Ninja Spirit]

Well if that's the case, Gamestop needs to get back into selling NES games all over again.

[OldRover]

(why is music 50?)

Because music is copyrighted and hardware like this is patented...two different legal protection systems.

[CrackTiger]

(why is music 50?)

Because music is copyrighted and hardware like this is patented...two different legal protection systems.

Thats still crazy that its as short as 15 years, I wonder if Nintendo had a chance to renew it and passed.

[soco]

it's actually a good thing that patents can't be renewed unless you love Gauntlet and ford automobiles. Ford patented the carburetor and Atari patented "multiplayer, multicharachter cooperative play video games". (making the assumption they refused to license the patent to 3rd parties or did so at a crazy price).

most people think that the copyright times should be less than they are, as it seems rather silly to protect something for that long, especially well after the death of the artist.

the reason for difference, is that a patent is usually on some form of technology that could potentially block development of entire branches of science. whereas copyrighted artwork only prevents people from making nearly identical copies, however they can still make very similar copies.

there's a guy in japan making at least somewhat of a hardware rom emulator for the pc engine.

[nimtene]

Was any of the gore changed, going from
the Japan to US version of Splatterhouse?

[esteban]

Was any of the gore changed, going from
the Japan to US version of Splatterhouse?

This is a good question. The fellow who created "The West Mansion" (Splatterhouse fansite) might have the answer, but I don't remember if he had both versions or ever compared them.  Unfortunately, I don't have the Japanese HuCard, so I can't compare.

I've heard conflicting things:
1. in the church: golden meat cleaver... is this a different weapon? is the boss the same (disembodied head with spinning spheres)?
2. some other stuff (hahahaaha. nice and vague. your welcome )

I suspect that the games are nearly the same, because TurboPlay Magazine recycled a Splatterhouse strategy guide that originally appeared in a a Japanese PC-Engine magazine. Things look the same -- except for the fact that Rick's hockey mask was changed to a red mask for the TG-16 version.

Of course, some of the puking and blood might have been toned down... so, I'd  love to hear from folks who've played both versions.

[Yamazaki]

I played and own the Japanese version but suck very bad. If there are any cheats for it, post them! So I can make some pics to compare.

[esteban]

I played and own the Japanese version but suck very bad. If there are any cheats for it, post them! So I can make some pics to compare.

Here you go:

Level select:
Hold Run and press Select three times when the house and lightning are displayed on the title screen. Then hold Down/Left and press I. Note: To face the final Boss, select level 0.

Level select (Japanese version):
Press Select three times, then hold Left and press Run when the house and lightning are displayed on the title screen. Note: To face the final Boss, select level 0.

Sound test:
Enable the "Level select" code. Then, press Select at the level selection screen.

Expert mode:
Hold Select at the title screen until the word "Hard" is displayed.

Also, check out the Splatterhouse strategy guide in TurboPlay #2 :

page 12
page 13
page 15

etc.....

(keranu, do you like this post ;) )

[TR0N]

But lets take it even further. Do you think that anyone would buy a brand new reprint of Dracula X, possible with bonus materials, for $30? It wouldn't cost Konami a dime to develop and they'd make a killing even if they sold it for $5 a pop.

But its a slap in the face that most companies refuse to even put old content on new platforms and when they do, charge a lot for a little.

Thats why the Capcom Classic Collection is so cool.

Nuff said Midway,Atari,Namco and Capcom don't have problems with putting out collections.

You think, Konami would jump on the band wagon by now.

Still they refuse and don't want... to listen to fans for some reason

Thats the thing, they have put out collections of like 30 mostly boring games for psx & saturn in japan. If they charged like $10 for these things it'd be fine.

The closest they've come to to Capcom's generations is stuff like Salamander Deluxe pack for Saturn and Castlevania Chronicles for PSX.

But they didn't include the Gradius' in one nor the Nintendo 8 & 16-bit Castlevanias in the other. I mean, we're talking like 1 meg of disc space for a product that they aren't selling elsewhere commercially(and as such is legal to emulate in the U.S.).

If they want to sell old games as singles, then it would be nice to get them in their original format. Famiclones wouldn't be made if there wasn't a huge demand for them.

Imagine if some licensed out the PCE Duo and got it down to like half the size of a Sega CDX and sold it for $100. As much as collectors push up prices on Duo systems, there's enough of us who actually play the games to sell out new hardware.

A company was supposed to release an NES style Famiclone in the U.S. this month that plays both NES & Famicom game. I wonder if Nintendo managed to stop it before any got out.

http://www.playmessiah.com/index2.htm

They've got some cool accessroies for NES & SNES.

Agreed i got genertions 1-5 and the deluxe packs for my Saturn as well,Salamander,Gradius,Paroduis.

Realy it wouldn't be hard to make... one big collections for todays consoles.

Dunno in some odd way i guess, Konami doesn't think it could sell in todays market.

They act like... emulation would be hard for them but it realy isn't at all.

I'm sorry afther, Konami arcade classic for the ps1 and the (Castlevania&Contra collection for the PC) they could have done better

[Keranu]

(keranu, do you like this post ;) )

Hehe, you remember my post about your posts linking to your Turbo Play scans . Of course I love the post!

[td741]

TANGENT: There was an episode of Bionic Woman or 6 million dollar man that had this same premise (contemporary nazis resurrecting hitler).  Much more fun than the movies that used this plot (i.e. "they saved hitler's brain" or whatever).

Umm...  I do know that they did that for Wonder Woman (Season 2)... Yeah, got the DVD's.  Essentially they cloned hitler from some strands of hair.  And it was apparently a full-grown hitler with all of his memory.  (Err... yah.)

[esteban]

TANGENT: There was an episode of Bionic Woman or 6 million dollar man that had this same premise (contemporary nazis resurrecting hitler).  Much more fun than the movies that used this plot (i.e. "they saved hitler's brain" or whatever).

Umm...  I do know that they did that for Wonder Woman (Season 2)... Yeah, got the DVD's.  Essentially they cloned hitler from some strands of hair.  And it was apparently a full-grown hitler with all of his memory.  (Err... yah.)

Ahh! So it was Wonder Woman! At least I knew it was a female superhero!  Wonderwoman!

[Yamazaki]

JP Splatterhouse - Lv 7: instead of the gravestone there is a wooden cross.

[esteban]

JP Splatterhouse - Lv 7: instead of the gravestone there is a wooden cross.

Excellent! Yes, that makes sense. When Konami localized the NES Castlevanias, for example, they removed a lot of the crosses -- since they were considered an overtly religious symbol. This was Nintendo ofAmerica's policy, I'm pretty sure.

Can anyone out there get a screenshot of this?

[NightWolve]

He even put in a line in Xak III by one of the townspeople in the first city saying something like "Whats that? You're a Republican? Good for you! Better than being a disgusting lowlife Democrat!" ...or something.

No no no, don't ruin it with wildly inaccurate "paraphrasing" to suit your political needs... It was this sequence:





I was in silly mood, completely hateful of the Secular Liberal Left after 9-11 and their behavior, so that's what inspired that. I wanted to plug the site mostly, and then I thought since I'm just appending those lines, why now add a few more? I was quite in anti-censorship mode at the time. Instead of censoring myself on what I felt, I decided to express it. ;)

A little late to the party in the thread, I know, but I thought I'd join anyway. I was surprised to find what I did there brought up in a thread so recently. Anyway, I was tempted to add more of that in my Ys patches, preferably something a little more clever than that, but liberals haven't pissed me off as much to have gone that far. I'm just not as aggravated by them as much.

Steve you might want to avoid lengthy conversations with the guy who did the ys translations if you don't want them spoiled by association. 

Oh ho ho, clever is you. Don't worry - I hate you liberals as much as you hate me, or at least, you should, because, in all honesty, I am your enemy. But Keranu makes a good point. I enjoyed my pre-9-11 youth and naivete before I knew anything about politics. Apathy is good. He should enjoy being in that position while he has it because you can change dramatically when and if you do become interested in the subject.

These days, I too attempt not to let agitators suck me into serious scuffles. They take a lot of energy and I have more important things to be doing than arguing with people over the Internet. But it is hard and I sometimes am unable to avoid it. However, I did make one attempt in that I stopped going to a board I was visiting for about 3 years given the shear amount of AAAs posting there (Angry Angsty Atheists as I refer to them) - it just finally occured to me I cannot stand being around them and it's pointless. Usually they're ex-Catholic/Christian and what not, in other words, they're weren't atheists early in life, and those are usually the ones I cannot stand the most. They just seem to have a bigger chip on their shoulders than an atheist who's been that way most of their life. I can manage to get along better with those. Just a general obversation, mind you, not an authoritative statement that all of them would fall into; just the ones I've run into over the Internet in the last 4 years or so.

Anyhow, if a person of such an ideological persuasion is respectful and has a trait known as intellectual honesty (which is very important to me when I make judgment about someone), I am more than willing to oblige in return. But yeah, good pot shot there, bud. I should've checked this board more often, but it took Aaron long enough to get rid of ezboard which was a good deterrent to getting more board members. I checked it from time to time as guest when he reopened it, but it didn't seem like the activity was building up so much. Then recently, the Forum Index disappeared for guests, so I registered to do the occasional quick browsing.

[GUTS]

Haha you should have put some hidden political stuff in Ys, mostly just because it would have been hilarious to see the purists whine and cry about it.  It's super funny when people get all riled up over that kind of shit (like all those nerds who swear that Ted Woolsey did such a horrible job back in the day, as if the fucktards can actually read japanese to make a comparison, haha).

[NightWolve]

Well, I had to be more "respectful," you see... DeuceBag (Jeff Nussbaum, the Cocky Cock-Flasher), the translator, is a big atheist lib, but we got along. Why? Well, cause we became comrades in the cause of Ys! It was Ys after all; I wanted the translation to be faithful and not poisoned by political partisan-hackery, a position I took later down the road. We're still working together on more Ys projects I have cooking up; that's about 4 years I've known him. But anyway, I did leave some Rush Limbaugh references in the ReadMe, cause yeah, I like 'em riled up. There's nothing better for that than ole El Rusho. ;)

As for Ted Woolsey, I've never known what the deal was with that, but I know I enjoyed FFII very much. That, along with Ys Book I & II is why I began to love RPGs. Fan translators that would actually redo the same game, the same rom, I've never understood. I dunno what motivation I would have to replay the game all over again. Most especially with FFII (FFIV) because I already really enjoyed the story and that's why I played it over like three times. Their talking points about how they didn't censor this or that or take too much liberties is inane. Anyhow, it's not like it's a bad thing, but I think if they've got the resources to actually do fan translations, priority should be given to imports that we never got to play in English at all, not retranslations... That's my position. Give us more games that we never got, not retranslations because you hated the translator. Ted Woolsey? Hell, forget him, how about Victor Ireland and dancing over the grave of Working Designs [err, now 'Failing Designs']? LOL That's some real hatred I've come across right there...

[GUTS]

Yeah I totally agree, retranslating stuff is a pointless waste of time.  I'd much rather play new games then the same game with a different translation, and honestly most of the retranslations I've seen aren't any better than the original and are actually worse in most cases (like this one FFIII re-translation I played was fucking awful, somebody actually said "PWNED" or some shit like that).

On Working Designs, I couldn't believe the amount of hate either.  I think it's just becuase Vic was such a public figure that everybody had somebody to hate on.  I mean I can't stand some of the shit Atlus does (like Magna Carta, ugh) but since they're just a faceless company there's nobody to hold a personal grudge against for passing up awesome shit like Ikusa Gami for garbage like Samurai Wester.

[TR0N]

Hell, forget him, how about Victor Ireland and dancing over the grave of Working Designs [err, now 'Failing Designs']? LOL That's some real hatred I've come across right there...

Love or a hate thing when people mention Vic.

Some of the message boards i visit have different opinions.

On, WD going kaput some are glad he's gone some are upset over it imo

Any ways got any more fan translation plan for, PCE games :

[NightWolve]

Any ways got any more fan translation plan for, PCE games :

Nah, I'm spent there. I do have plans for "Ys: The Oath in Felghana" for Windows [PC], and I have a feeling, if you like the Ys series, you'll find that quite a bit more enjoyable than anything found on the little ole PCE HE system.



Trust me. ;)

[GUTS]

Rad dude, that looks awesome.  Have you tried Xanadu Next?  That game kicks ass too, I wish somebody would have a crack at translating it.

[NightWolve]

Well, I took a look at it. I didn't get too far, cause it looks complicated, and I usually don't play them very far in Japanese - I just wanted to check it out briefly. But yeah, if I ever think about another translation project down the road, it might be that or even ED6.

[TR0N]

Any ways got any more fan translation plan for, PCE games :

Nah, I'm spent there. I do have plans for "Ys: The Oath in Felghana" for Windows [PC], and I have a feeling, if you like the Ys series, you'll find that quite a bit more enjoyable than anything found on the little ole PCE HE system.



Trust me. ;)

Looks good that's if i ever get the time to get a copy

Import pc games can be down right expensive

[esteban]

Any ways got any more fan translation plan for, PCE games :

Nah, I'm spent there. I do have plans for "Ys: The Oath in Felghana" for Windows [PC], and I have a feeling, if you like the Ys series, you'll find that quite a bit more enjoyable than anything found on the little ole PCE HE system.

Trust me. ;)

Wow, that's too awesome. Folks have praised this game, but the prospect of an English-language version is just too awesome.

Anyway, as far as "re-translating" is concerned: I agree that (most often) it is much more productive to work on a new title. That said, I am always curious about how original vs. localized scripts differ -- but usually the key differences can be sufficiently documented in an article or FAQ or something.

Anyway, I loved WD. Who cares if they bastardized the original scripts? We got some great stuff from them... I don't know if more faithful translations would have been as memorable or as enjoyable. For example, I love the bastardized "Battle of the Planets" cartoon we got here in the States, since that's the cartoon I grew up watching. This rings even truer for Robotech. Regardless of how bastardized the U.S. localizations were, they're the ones I love.

When great liberties are taken with original source material, I do like to be aware of it... but it doesn't mean that we can't enjoy the creative localizations as well.

[NightWolve]

That said, I am always curious about how original vs. localized scripts differ -- but usually the key differences can be sufficiently documented in an article or FAQ or something.

Anyway, I loved WD. Who cares if they bastardized the original scripts? We got some great stuff from them... I don't know if more faithful translations would have been as memorable or as enjoyable. For example, I love the bastardized "Battle of the Planets" cartoon we got here in the States, since that's the cartoon I grew up watching. This rings even truer for Robotech. Regardless of how bastardized the U.S. localizations were, they're the ones I love.

When great liberties are taken with orginal source material, I do like to be aware of it... but it doesn't mean that we can't enjoy the creative localizations as well.

Eh, you know, I agree with you in a way, but it's kind of interesting. Take Working Designs. I'm an American and I was targetted as such with their localization for N. America for some game, let's say CF2. I buy the product, highly enjoy it, and wind up still having fond memories for it even today. Now, I'm still naive at this point. Where the game came from is of no interest to me. Whether WD created it from scratch or took it from another country and made it its own, it's inconsequetial to me, right? Assuming I'm still naive about how exactly it came into creation.

Fast forward to now. You get on the Internet and you run into these "purists..." They start whispering in your ears about liberties taken with the translations of various games WD did, right? You didn't know this before and curiously enough, you didn't friggin' care, did you?? Hehe. So, you ask them, would the script have been better with a more one-to-one translation? They say, "NO, that's not the point!! The original script writers had their material altered beyond recognition! You never got to experience it!" Oh, I say... Oh...

What's my point?? I think it's what Cypher said to Mr. Smith in The Matrix, "Ignorance is bliss..." ; ) I know I enjoyed WD a lot more before I had rabid WD and Victor Ireland haters 'whisphering' in my ears about their "bastardizations..."

It also goes to my experience with one of them who used to help with my translation projects for Ys games. Shimarisu is her nick, and originally I was quite happy to have found someone who was both a Japanese/English translator and a loyal Ys fan. Take the "Ys I Complete" game: Originally, Psycho DeuceBag (Jeff Nussbaum), my current translator, appeared out of nowhere (SPOILER: He came from that den of psychos at neo-geo.com) and translated the script in 2 weeks. I didn't search him out, he found me [unfortunately] but I had an open call to recruit a 2nd translator. I genuinely wanted to recruit a good editor too that could match Working Designs fun with the scripts... I modded the patch/script system enough that anyone with a hex editor could edit the script and he went and took advantage of that (open-editing) before I could coach/guide him. So I played the game with his script and really enjoyed the game, but it wasn't quite finished and he had some incomplete strings to deal with. I had already made arrangements with Shimarisu to work on said script, so I thought, hey, 2 translators would help with a more accurate translation/localization, so the more the merrier/better, right??? WRONG!!!!!!!

Alright, so she finishes her proofing/rewriting of DeuceBag's script translation, I make a patch and I'm all happy thinking the mistakes would be gone, but then, after playing the game, I start noticing something... something had gone awry.... I'm telling you, I was almost ready to cry. I'm like, WTF, what's going on here? This is horribly dry and repititious!! There were horrible lines by Sarah like, "She is my aunt. She will help you. She can found to the north..."  I'm like, what happened to the good lines by DeuceBag??? Little did I realize this chick used to argue with Victor Ireland in IRC and claims because Vic once told her to go learn Japanese if she wanted games translated her way, she in fact, did just that.... OMG! To "balance" her perception of a world gone mad with localization styles done by companies such as Working Designs, she feels the need to go to the extreme opposite and boy does it show!

Anyway, her translation was circulated for a long time with my patch, until early 2005 when DeuceBag and I decided to redo it, and finish the job with Ys II Complete which we did. We fixed a lot of mistakes and he had restored some of the naturalizations he had originally done and the script is better for it. If you want an example of a crap literal translation, take a look at my Xak III patch. Akimaru/Miika, who proofed that, now regrets his Japanophilia/Fanboyism for leaving it with a more literal translation style. It's bearable, but it shows.

So yeah, all that experience colors my opinion of purists. If people listened to them, we would all be damned with horrible, horrible scripts... Believe you me. I've seen it!!! I've had the displeasure of failing miserably with my editing attempts at it! DON'T YOU BELIEVE 'EM!!

Above all, don't let them destroy your image/love/respect for Working Designs! NEVER!

[OldRover]

One thing I find to be funny about people who whine about translations is that they don't understand that there is always a substantial amount of definition change when crossing the line from one language to another. I'll give a very valid example from our own production, Mysterious Song.

In the original English script, there's a woman who says "I can't find my pussy anywhere! *slap* I meant my cat, pervert!". In English, clearly this is serious innuendo. This does not translate correctly to any other language though, so it has to be rewritten when translated. Also, certain lines in the original English script are meant to be funny but completely lose their punch if translated literally, so the translator has to replace the line with something that gives a similar amount of comic punch. This isn't always easy to do...

As for WD...don't worry, they will be back. This is merely a transitional phase.

[GUTS]

Haha I totally agree with Nightwolve.  In my experience most people who complain about translations are fucktards, especially the people who bitched about Working Designs.  There's a whole group of people out there who rag on the awesome Tales of Phantasia translation because they're morons.

[esteban]

I loved reading about the specific experieces you two (NightWolve and nodtveidt) had with localizing scripts.

Bottom line: translating a script is a creative process, even when you are trying to be faithful to the orginal text, and results in a "new" work of art that will never satisfy everyone. Translators have it rough!

[Ninja Spirit]

Haha, kinda reminds me of the book "The Grapes of Wrath".

The Japanese found the title funny because the kanji for the title literally became "Angry Raisins"

[eastx]

I think I tend to enjoy a more literal translation, but I want figurative language and such to be used so it isn't too dry or repetitive... Apparently the Japanese aren't too big on synonyms, now are they? Heh, J/K. But a translation going completely OT isn't the best way to spice up a game, either. A translated game should be fun in the way the developers intended. If the old game had a joke (that wouldn't make sense in English), then sure, we should get a different joke. But I think it should be the same kind of joke, capturing the original spirit.

If Working Designs did that, then they were awesome. My issues with them were their reprogrammings... Like removing the easy mode from Thunder Force 5. That's not good! Making Sillhouette Mirage harder, stealing experience in Lunar 2 for Sega CD when you save... No thank you! That really is messing with the creators' intent.
I think the real reason they failed is the insane collectors' editions and high price tags. If they'd just released the best games they could for $50, they would have done SO much better. Fanboys will bring in $, but not enough $... The proof is in the pudding.

[NightWolve]

creators' intent/what developers intended/capturing the original spirit

This is the crux of the matter, scriptwise, for purists, I think. They apparently place a high value or blind trust on the creators' intent in all aspects. You're essentially saying, "Don't touch anything, the Japanese writers are by default awesome, so I wanna know exactly what their intent was for every line, etc."

You know, it's like, why assign them such praise and respect as writers and assume you would've got a better experience with a more literal translation? I think that if their writing was so good, you wouldn't have to do anything to the script, aside from naturalizing it like what we've talked about already such as to maintain the same comic punch for some line that just wouldn't work in English, etc.

From a business standpoint, it is easier and cheaper to do the literal translation and not really give a shit if it's at least decent. You thereby place blind "trust" with the original writers, do a straight up localization, and if it comes out to be a boring piece of shit, well, then you can just claim you "honored" the creators' intent, I guess, and then use that in your marketing... ;)

Oh and yeah, correct on the lack of synonyms in the Japanese language. They either don't have 'em or don't use 'em...

[eastx]

Well, why shouldn't I trust Falcom, if they made Ys? Or any original developer? If I like the game, do I need it to be improved? Why translate a game at all if its story isn't worth maintaining?
Like I said, when Working Designs tried to improve the games they released here through code changes (removing Easy mode, etc.), they usually harmed the game more than they helped it. How is trying to improve a script by writing something original or off-topic any different? Why must it be done? I'm not seeing it...