Weak spinning TG-CD.

Ichibanrei · 07/07/2009, 02:05 PM

Hey Everyone. So I was mucking around the web when I remembered good ol' Pcenginefx. Getting instantly nostalgic I pulled out my TG-16 and CD unit. This was about 3 weeks ago. After a good cleaning I found that I had lost my original AC Adapter. I went and bought the recommended RS replacement, got everything connected (after needing to clean out my system card) then Nothing...

It sounds as if the laser is searching and moving but there was no spin. Not even that initial power on spin I remember it used to have. Browsing around further I followed Nat's suggestion of vegetable oil to lube the gears, made sure nothing felt restricted and verified that the gears have all the teeth. Tried it again, and still nothing. I got to thinking about running it with the drive door slightly open. Bingo, that works. Ys IV loaded up with some minor skipping. Cotton, and that was OK too, again with minor skipping. Both Disks are original, no CD-Rs.

For some odd reason it can't spin with the drive door fully closed. I'm thinking it could be 1 of 2 things. Either the CD motor can't spin with enough power, or maybe the cylinder on top of the drive door has seized and is holding the disk in place. It appears to move fine but I'm not so sure since I don't remember exactly what it felt like the last time I had played it fully working (Maybe 5 years ago).

Has anyone experienced anything similar, or have any suggestions???
Thanks for all your help!

kattare · 07/07/2009, 05:56 PM

Don't try this with a disk you like, because if the spindle is sitting low it'll scratch it, but If you just set the CD on the spindle and spin it, does it spin freely?

If you detatch the magnetic top from within the lid and put it on the spindle, then with a small screwdriver trick the lid latch into thinking the lid is closed, does it read the disk ok?

I'm not at home right now, (where my TG CD is) so I can't give you any more detail about how to pull the magnetic piece out or how to short the lid switch, but that would be where I would start.

If it does run ok like that, then I'd look into how the magnetic piece is resting in the lid... see if there's anything out of wack there, or if some lubrication may be in order. (tho I really don't know if that's something you want to be lubricating...)

When you're running it with the lid open, check out the balance and whatnot too... if you rest a screwdriver against the case while it's spinning, does it rattle? Or if you rest your finger on it while it's spinning, can you feel a bad vibration?

Cheers

Ichibanrei · 07/07/2009, 08:03 PM

OK, I removed the magnetic top. No lid mod was needed as the door closes fine. Games run but they load REALLY SLOW!!!!! Just starting up the Gate of Thunder disk took about 4 minutes. And that's just to get bonk to show the menu. Once GoT is selected, it took about 3 - 4 minutes for the opening cinematic. No sound unlike my skipping experience with Ys IV. I tried Ys IV again and sure enough, no sound. It feels as if the disks are spinning slower than I remember, but then again this is an old drive and I don't think they used to spin very fast to begin with.

override · 07/07/2009, 09:41 PM

It sounds like your laser is going out! OR you have a loose connection or messed up ribbon cable.

If you want to do a laser transplant its actually quite simple. It is tedious and you must be very delicate.

I know of a source you can buy the CD unit for the TG! Its an NEC CDR-35D. THIS site has them for $45 each. I bought one from them to replace mine in my TG-CD unit awhile back and it worked like a champ! The board on these is no good for a TG since they were made for a computer. The case, laser, cables, wires, etc. are all good though. Also if you can get on ebay and find a Sony Discman D35 that is the same laser as well! I found one on ebay for $12 one time. It has to be the D35 tho thats the only one to my knowledge that works. The laser assembly is not exactly the same tho and the motors are bigger in the discman so you will have to use the original laser assembly from the TG and just transplant the laser only.

I have some pics I can dig up and post on this thread when I get around to it! I hope this information helps you resurrect your unit!

Ichibanrei · 07/07/2009, 10:46 PM

Damn, Ebay's got a D34 and a D36, and an NEC CDR-36. So close! I guess I'll monitor it for a couple of weeks, but I think I'll just buy it directly from the computer trade site.
I did validate that everything was connected correctly and that the ribbon was correctly positioned so it looks like it may be the laser after all.
Thanks for all the help. I'll keep you guys posted.

override · 07/07/2009, 11:17 PM

Quote from: Ichibanrei on 07/07/2009, 10:46 PMDamn, Ebay's got a D34 and a D36, and an NEC CDR-36. So close! I guess I'll monitor it for a couple of weeks, but I think I'll just buy it directly from the computer trade site.
I did validate that everything was connected correctly and that the ribbon was correctly positioned so it looks like it may be the laser after all.
Thanks for all the help. I'll keep you guys posted.

Check around on amazon too they may have something! Hope you can get it fixed!

BlackandBlue · 07/08/2009, 03:21 AM

Mine did that. I ended up getting the sticky felt that you usually put on cabinet doors so they don't slam when you close them and put it in the two front corners where the door touches the drive. It raises up the door just enough so the magnetic top portion does not interfere with the motor. The games take forever to load because the cd is not spinning at the correct speed, since it is basically spinning at a different rate as intended (its slips without the magnetic top).

NecroPhile · 07/08/2009, 10:31 AM

Quote from: override on 07/07/2009, 09:41 PMAlso if you can get on ebay and find a Sony Discman D35 that is the same laser as well! I found one on ebay for $12 one time. It has to be the D35 tho thats the only one to my knowledge that works.

Check this thread for a list of compatible drives, but note that the first post has not been updated to include every drive (nat's asleep at the switch!).

Ichibanrei · 07/08/2009, 10:52 AM

Thanks! I found that thread last night as well but didn't get past the first post I ended up going with the NEC 35D. I think I'd like to replace as much as possible from my TG drive. After playing around with it some more, I found that the reason it wasn't spinning with the magnet on top was because the magnet was making the disk flush with the drive floor. I guess it's supposed to have some play but not actually touch the bottom. So it was as Kattare had suggested in his very first sentence, I just didn't didn't notice...
Oh well, the overhaul can only do it good...

override · 07/08/2009, 12:54 PM

Quote from: Ichibanrei on 07/08/2009, 10:52 AMThanks! I found that thread last night as well but didn't get past the first post I ended up going with the NEC 35D. I think I'd like to replace as much as possible from my TG drive. After playing around with it some more, I found that the reason it wasn't spinning with the magnet on top was because the magnet was making the disk flush with the drive floor. I guess it's supposed to have some play but not actually touch the bottom. So it was as Kattare had suggested in his very first sentence, I just didn't didn't notice...
Oh well, the overhaul can only do it good...

I realize now after see that thread that I was mistaken and it was the D34 not 35....lol Im sorry about that....Like I said Im wasnt exactly sure.

Now we know!

Ichibanrei · 07/08/2009, 01:06 PM

Hahaha, No worries. I do see tho that the TGCD and the 35D are practically identical with the exception of the PCB layout. The swap should be fairly simple and it looks like I will be able to replace more than just the laser. Man I can't wait to fire up Lords of Thunder, and maybe get around to making an Ys IV in English disk. Maybe I should do that while I wait

.

override · 07/08/2009, 01:09 PM

Quote from: Ichibanrei on 07/08/2009, 01:06 PMHahaha, No worries. I do see tho that the TGCD and the 35D are practically identical with the exception of the PCB layout. The swap should be fairly simple and it looks like I will be able to replace more than just the laser. Man I can't wait to fire up Lords of Thunder, and maybe get around to making an Ys IV in English disk. Maybe I should do that while I wait .

If you need help making the Ys IV disc lemme know I had an adventure getting that ho to work! There are two programs out there to use if you dont know of them. They are turborip and TOCfixer. If your using widows vista u will need some specific files and a specific command line which I have available!

Lemme know....if anything I can always make you a copy!

Ichibanrei · 07/08/2009, 01:55 PM

Thanks! I've got Vista64 but I'm also running vista via vmware so I'll give it an attempt. If anything I can test out my results in MagicEngine. I'll let you know.

Ichibanrei · 07/08/2009, 02:42 PM

Success! I was able to make a 1:1 copy using the CDRwin method in the patch instructions. I wish I could pop it in my turbo...
Thanks for the offer override

override · 07/08/2009, 03:11 PM

Quote from: Ichibanrei on 07/08/2009, 02:42 PMSuccess! I was able to make a 1:1 copy using the CDRwin method in the patch instructions. I wish I could pop it in my turbo...
Thanks for the offer override

Cool! Thats good! Let us know how it works in magic engine! Just incase you dont know the dubs were never done just the txt.

Ichibanrei · 07/08/2009, 03:41 PM

It's working good! I took some japanese in college so I understood a little of what was being said, then I found the speech text file. Hahaha.
While I love magic engine, nothing compares to running it on a good tv. I have all my classic systems hooked up to a 32in Sony Trinitron and games look great on it and I'm sure Ys will be no exception. Having to emulate scanlines on an LCD is passable but I guess I'm just picky and widescreen format makes it a little worse.
I got to get arrested in the game but I'm thinking I should stop since I'd have to start all over in about a week or so. Or maybe I need to play a couple more hours...
On a side note, I don't think I ever really appreciated how vibrant the TG/PC Engine was. I was playing some turbochip games and compared to the Genesis and SNES, those two seem a little washed out color-wise. The S-video on the SNES helps tho. It looks almost as vibrant. The Genesis I don't think stands a chance, then again I don't think I ever heard of an S-video option for it so I'm just using the usual composite.

kattare · 07/09/2009, 02:28 AM

Hey there. Good to see you found the CDR-35D.

If the _only_ problem is that the spindle is sitting low, my guess is that it's only 0.5mm - 1mm too low and you can try a few different things.

You can put something under the disc so it rides a little higher. The trick is (a) keeping it level and (b) finding the right thickness.

Or... you can try to pull the platform up. This is sometimes hard to do, it's on there pretty tight and it takes a lot of force to move it... Thus you pry on it and then -pop-, it flies off at you. ;-) Then you have to put it back on, and be careful when putting it back on not to get it too low again. The other issue with this method is that unless you apply pressure evenly at several (I'd say 4) points around the platform, you stand a good chance of bending either the spindle or the platform. In which case you're really screwed as the disc will wobble and the laser won't be able to read the outer tracks anymore. (been there, sucks to try to recover from...)

Ichibanrei · 07/09/2009, 08:28 AM

Pull the platform? hehe, that sounds dirty...
I was always pretty careful to not let the disks fly since they're all original. I guess I could test out the Ys 4 copy I just made, but I'm kinda hesitant to do anything extreme with electronics. I have tho learned that if the magnet isn't on top, the disk will slip, causing slipping and skipping, or they just won't play right. I tried using rubberbands around the spindle head to see if it allows the disk to spin higher, but now I can't get it to read disks properly... I can't wait to just rebuild it with the parts in the 35D. Sorry, I'm Drunk... today is my birthday. 7/9. As a gift to myself, I bought blackandwhite's region free PCE. Hopefully I can also find a Super CDROM 2... The grey one with the yellow lettering. Time to nap.

Ichibanrei · 07/09/2009, 08:41 AM

Actually thanks for the suggestions. I was just Abel to play gate of thunder. There was no music tho. It played for about 3 seconds then it cut out completely

Ichibanrei · 07/09/2009, 08:46 AM

It cut out music-wise but, the game played to level4, but I died. I mean all the tracks loaded then stopped after a couple seconds but the game played on till I choked.

kattare · 07/09/2009, 01:30 PM

I was playing with a machine that had the "spindle too low" issue last night. I fixed it by snagging some of my wife's Avery address labels (those printable self-sticking ones) and cutting a circular chunk out of the stickers with a knife. I pulled the magnet out of the top piece to use as a guide when doing the cutting. I just cut out the middle and then cut out the outside and ended up with a sticky washer kind of thing. It took two such cut labels to bring the height up enough on the disk that it would stop rubbing. ;-)

kid_rondeau · 07/09/2009, 10:00 PM

Quote from: Ichibanrei on 07/09/2009, 08:28 AMPull the platform? hehe, that sounds dirty...
I was always pretty careful to not let the disks fly since they're all original. I guess I could test out the Ys 4 copy I just made, but I'm kinda hesitant to do anything extreme with electronics. I have tho learned that if the magnet isn't on top, the disk will slip, causing slipping and skipping, or they just won't play right. I tried using rubberbands around the spindle head to see if it allows the disk to spin higher, but now I can't get it to read disks properly... I can't wait to just rebuild it with the parts in the 35D. Sorry, I'm Drunk... today is my birthday. 7/9. As a gift to myself, I bought blackandwhite's region free PCE. Hopefully I can also find a Super CDROM 2... The grey one with the yellow lettering. Time to nap.

Dude, I love this guy!

Ichibanrei · 07/15/2009, 10:38 AM

Thanks for the love! Last week was a little interesting to say the least.
Back to business tho. I received the NEC 35D and did a transplant of the laser assembly. Sadly I have failed again. It's doing the same stupid thing!!! it seems like the damn magnet slams the disk to the floor. On the bright side it was able to slowly spin which means it's much more powerful than my old motor and laser but it's still not working. I'll work on it some more later today.

override · 07/15/2009, 05:50 PM

Quote from: Ichibanrei on 07/15/2009, 10:38 AMThanks for the love! Last week was a little interesting to say the least.
Back to business tho. I received the NEC 35D and did a transplant of the laser assembly. Sadly I have failed again. It's doing the same stupid thing!!! it seems like the damn magnet slams the disk to the floor. On the bright side it was able to slowly spin which means it's much more powerful than my old motor and laser but it's still not working. I'll work on it some more later today.

One thing you could try but you have to be VERY CAREFUL not to bend the pole....Take the laser assembly back out and pull the spindle off the motor.....You can do this in various ways..

I suggest taking something you can get back out or do it with your old spindle and motor first as a test....But take something and put in the hole that the spindle sits on the motor....Not to much but just enought to raise it up tad to get it to not ride the bottom of the tray. I also recommend marking the motor rod at the original place of the spindle before taking it off.

Another thing that I had an issue with when I replaced my laser was the metal plate that snaps on the laser assembly that covers the laser and has the slot cut out for the laser to run up and down was not snapped on completely....it took me a couple trys but I finally got it snapped in good and it stopped rubbing the bottom of the tray. The whole time it was scratching on that not the actual plastic part of the tray.

Hope this helps and Im sorry to hear your still having issues.....

kattare · 07/15/2009, 06:10 PM

I can't remember where I posted it before, or I'd link to it... heh. Normally if it's riding low I pull the platform and re-seat it, but it's not really easy to do without damaging the platform or the rod or both. So what I did last time is I removed the magnet from the lid, carefully removed the plastic pieces, etc until all I had was the magnet. Then I took the side off a computer case, set it on the desk, set a sticky address label (avery brand, but any sticker would do really) on the computer case, then set the magnet on top of that. The magnet stuck to the side of the computer case and held the address label in place well enough for me to trace the magnet onto the sticker. Once I'd traced the magnet onto the sticker, I removed the magnet and I took a hobby knife and cut out the doughnut shape... this ended up being a perfect sized spacer to just stick on the platform. I made two of these... stuck them on the platform, and they worked great. ;-)

Ichibanrei · 07/16/2009, 10:51 AM

I had been hoping swapping from the 35D would have resolved the issue, but damn I'm going to seriously give your idea a shot. Thanks for the suggestion.

kattare · 07/17/2009, 11:39 AM

Did'ja get it going?

Ichibanrei · 07/18/2009, 09:09 PM

Not at the moment. It's been a busy weekend with work n all. I think early next week I'll give it a shot.