Why the PCE? Why Not the Genesis or SNES???

Nazi NecroPhile · 03/28/2011, 12:04 PM

Quote from: nat on 03/27/2011, 02:27 AMI hear what you're saying, but I think it also has a lot to do with the monitor in question. It contrasts very well on my LCD monitor, in fact it's almost clearer and easier to read for me to read than the yellow. I'd like to hear other people's opinions, as I said, this is the first I've heard of it. If the general consensus is that it's unreadable, I'll consider changing it.

I can read it just fine, without having to enable my zoom function or other optical effects, like split screen, slow motion, Quantel^TM.

For those that are having a hard time reading such text, try selecting it which makes it into blue text on a white background.

spenoza · 03/28/2011, 12:58 PM

Quote from: NecroPhile on 03/28/2011, 12:04 PM
Quote from: nat on 03/27/2011, 02:27 AMI hear what you're saying, but I think it also has a lot to do with the monitor in question. It contrasts very well on my LCD monitor, in fact it's almost clearer and easier to read for me to read than the yellow. I'd like to hear other people's opinions, as I said, this is the first I've heard of it. If the general consensus is that it's unreadable, I'll consider changing it.
I can read it just fine, without having to enable my zoom function or other optical effects, like split screen, slow motion, Quantel^TM.

For those that are having a hard time reading such text, try selecting it which makes it into blue text on a white background.

Sure, as a stopgap solution that's passable, with with better design everyone would win, not just some. Hey, at least we've all concluded the content is worth reading!

And to get back on the forum topic, I confess that Bonk 2 was a real draw for me on the Turbo. Even though all Bonk's actions have just a little delay to them, I really liked the game, better than the others in the series. It's just... I dunno, fun. Between the bonus levels and all the little powerups hidden around the huge levels... The game amused me more than the other two.

Joe Redifer · 03/28/2011, 03:43 PM

Quote from: lord_cack on 03/27/2011, 10:43 PM
Quote from: ddd1234 on 03/27/2011, 10:02 PM
Quote from: esteban on 03/27/2011, 11:37 AMBack on Topic...

(3) On the increasing importance of music. I have less free time as I age, so video game music has become increasingly important as a way for me to stay connected and involved in the hobby I cherish. Of course, I always was a slut for video game music, but now the ratio of listening:playing is heavily weighted to the "listening" side because I can listen to music whilst commuting, driving, biking, cleaning cat litter, etc. etc.
Obey da legendary Sega genesis soundchip....
hehe, thats a good one. Even used da funny words to prove da point dat it was da joke.... or were you serious?

The Genesis sound chip is pretty awesome. There are many great tunes for it. I won't argue with anyone who thinks the PCE sounds better (and it does sound awesome). But let's put it this way: Just because the PCE sounds awesome doesn't mean that the Genesis sounds bad.

ddd1234 · 03/28/2011, 03:54 PM

Yep, lightening force/Thunder force 4 for the win.

OldRover · 03/28/2011, 04:57 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 03/28/2011, 03:43 PMThe Genesis sound chip is pretty awesome. There are many great tunes for it. I won't argue with anyone who thinks the PCE sounds better (and it does sound awesome). But let's put it this way: Just because the PCE sounds awesome doesn't mean that the Genesis sounds bad.

A sound chip is only as good as the one who programs it.

Joe Redifer · 03/28/2011, 05:53 PM

Very, very true.

Mathius · 03/28/2011, 05:59 PM

I just couldn't believe what Sunsoft did with the Genesis sound chip. Truly amazing!

nat · 03/28/2011, 06:53 PM

Quote from: Mathius on 03/28/2011, 05:59 PMI just couldn't believe what Sunsoft did with the Genesis sound chip. Truly amazing!

They've done just as much good with the Turbo's soundchip.

Check out Batman for the most easily accessible example of this. Benkei Gaiden is another great one if you play JRPGs.

Mathius · 03/28/2011, 07:03 PM

Quote from: nat on 03/28/2011, 06:53 PM
Quote from: Mathius on 03/28/2011, 05:59 PMI just couldn't believe what Sunsoft did with the Genesis sound chip. Truly amazing!
They've done just as much good with the Turbo's soundchip.

Check out Batman for the most easily accessible example of this. Benkei Gaiden is another great one if you play JRPGs.

Batman for the MD is the first game that enters my mind when I think of Sunsoft music. I'll check out the PCE version too.

CrackTiger · 03/28/2011, 07:11 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 03/28/2011, 03:43 PMThe Genesis sound chip is pretty awesome. There are many great tunes for it. I won't argue with anyone who thinks the PCE sounds better (and it does sound awesome). But let's put it this way: Just because the PCE sounds awesome doesn't mean that the Genesis sounds bad.

That's how I look at consoles and games in general. Nothing has to be good at the expense of something else.

The Genesis' sound is not only awesome in general, but very unique, even for FM sound. It has the perfect combination of FM, PSG and samples, but more importantly there are so many games with great music.

Arkhan Asylum · 03/28/2011, 07:22 PM

I cant believe what Atari did with the 2600's sound chip. Goddamn its awful.

yellow on blue is the best. BORLAND C++ WHAT.

spenoza · 03/28/2011, 07:33 PM

Truth told, I think the NES sound chip was stretched the most and achieved the greatest highs considering the limitations.

ddd1234 · 03/28/2011, 10:21 PM

Quote from: Mathius on 03/28/2011, 05:59 PMI just couldn't believe what Sunsoft did with the Genesis sound chip. Truly amazing!

Sunsoft's music for Aero the Acrobat series really sucks.

Mathius · 03/28/2011, 10:23 PM

Quote from: ddd1234 on 03/28/2011, 10:21 PM
Quote from: Mathius on 03/28/2011, 05:59 PMI just couldn't believe what Sunsoft did with the Genesis sound chip. Truly amazing!
Sunsoft's music for Aero the Acrobat series really sucks.

Must've been a bad programming team. Never really liked the game anyway.

ddd1234 · 03/28/2011, 10:35 PM

sequel is a good game, i personally like it! first one was ass. ...

Joe Redifer · 03/29/2011, 12:25 AM

Aero the Acrobat, Zero the Squirrel, Blaster Master 2, Batman Revenge of the Joker etc etc were all done in the US or UK as far as I know and did not use Sunsoft's renowned Japanese team. These games all sounds rally bad. All games that came before them sound really good. Batman for the PCE has great music, it's like the NES' music (same tunes) only better.

ddd1234 · 03/29/2011, 12:50 AM

Zero the Kamikaze Squirrel is a very good game bro.

Arkhan Asylum · 03/29/2011, 02:00 AM

I never thought any of those games were too bad . Aero was pretty chunky but it was still a fun one.

Joe Redifer · 03/29/2011, 05:11 AM

Quote from: ddd1234Zero the Kamikaze Squirrel is a very good game bro.

OK bro, but the music still sucks.

esteban · 03/29/2011, 07:17 AM

Quote from: guest on 03/28/2011, 07:33 PMTruth told, I think the NES sound chip was stretched the most and achieved the greatest highs considering the limitations.

I am biased towards NES/Famicom, so naturally I agree. I think that many, many tunes are outstanding, especially considering the technical limitations.

Tatsujin · 03/29/2011, 07:39 AM

As for 8-bit generations, SID was the best ever

I just love it, and what peeps made out of its limitations. It sounded great, still does and ever will.

Soo many great memories. And yet so many great tunes to discover.

Mathius · 03/29/2011, 11:34 AM

Quote from: esteban on 03/29/2011, 07:17 AM
Quote from: guest on 03/28/2011, 07:33 PMTruth told, I think the NES sound chip was stretched the most and achieved the greatest highs considering the limitations.
I am biased towards NES/Famicom, so naturally I agree. I think that many, many tunes are outstanding, especially considering the technical limitations.

Even though the game is nearly unplayable Silver Surfer has some of the best music on the NES! I am not kidding!

Tatsujin · 03/29/2011, 12:29 PM

lol, nobody is gonna say that you're kidding. It's made by Tim and Geoff Follin. The compose master(s) of the 8bit era.

I just have that strong feeling that you would gonna love SID music soooo much!!

Mathius · 03/29/2011, 12:30 PM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 03/29/2011, 12:29 PMlol, nobody is gonna say that you're kidding. It's made by Tim and Geoff Follin. The compose master(s) of the 8bit era.

I just have that strong feeling that you would gonna love SID music soooo much!!

What pray tell is SID???

Tatsujin · 03/29/2011, 12:38 PM

THIS IS SID:

Cybernoid 1:

Cybernoid 2:

Turbo Outrun intro tune

Hot Rod intro tune

Savage 2nd level

Aspar GP intro tune

Rubicon (title)

SuperDeadite · 03/29/2011, 12:42 PM

Don't forget the best one!

Joe Redifer · 03/29/2011, 06:03 PM

The SID can do some good sound but I am definitely not a fan of arpeggios. They bring ANY sound far, far down. That Last Ninja tune would be better without the high-pitched arpeggio thing that keeps happening. I like NES music better.

Arkhan Asylum · 03/29/2011, 07:10 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 03/29/2011, 06:03 PMThe SID can do some good sound but I am definitely not a fan of arpeggios. They bring ANY sound far, far down. That Last Ninja tune would be better without the high-pitched arpeggio thing that keeps happening. I like NES music better.

Over arping is a European thing. SO many euro games are arptastic abortions.

The SID had the least limitations of any of the era's chips. I mean, its basically a fullblown synth without a keyboard to play it. (Easily fixed with a MIDI interface, one of the many programs out there, and a midi controller).

Its big problem is one volume register and filter so blending sounds right was tricky.

Hence RType having no SFX

and Double Dragon having no music

And Intergalactic Cage Match sounding like a retard camp took a field trip to guitar center.

Mathius · 03/29/2011, 07:14 PM

Your right Tats! I do love it! And guess what? I played Cybernoid at MGC!

Joe Redifer · 03/29/2011, 07:59 PM

Quote from: guestOver arping is a European thing. SO many euro games are arptastic abortions.

I have noticed this. However they are not abortions. But they SHOULD have been aborted!

Tatsujin · 03/29/2011, 08:40 PM

Quote from: SuperDeadite on 03/29/2011, 12:42 PMDon't forget the best one!

It's a very great one fo'sho, but not the best. Anyway there are sooo many great tunez out there. I can assemble a big best of some days, since i'm lissening to SIDs since mid 80s on a regular basis

Tatsujin · 03/29/2011, 08:47 PM

Quote from: Mathius on 03/29/2011, 07:14 PMYour right Tats! I do love it! And guess what? I played Cybernoid at MGC!

On the c64? probably sx64

Cybernoid 1 & 2 are two of my most fav. chip-tunez ever. Jeroen Tel was my hero back in the days, he made so many great tunez. And he was only two years older than me..lol. Speaken of o that, he was 16 when he made those both. And as you can imagine, at that time you even had to write your own routines and codes to be able to squeeze out such beautiful tones.

ddd1234 · 03/29/2011, 09:42 PM

Hey i played space harrier 2, and it's kinda fun.

spenoza · 03/29/2011, 11:58 PM

I really don't like that fluttering thing Euro chiptunes composers do with many of the sound effects. I'm very glad it was not widespread here in the US. What a lot of those SID composers did required talent, but I don't personally like it much. Just not for me.

Mathius · 03/30/2011, 12:01 AM

I personally enjoy that aspect of it. And, I didn't grow up with it.

Arkhan Asylum · 03/30/2011, 12:54 AM

Quote from: guest on 03/29/2011, 11:58 PMI really don't like that fluttering thing Euro chiptunes composers do with many of the sound effects. I'm very glad it was not widespread here in the US. What a lot of those SID composers did required talent, but I don't personally like it much. Just not for me.

that fluttering thing is the arp thing me and Joe are currently not liking.

in moderation, it is a nice little effect........ however, alot of the times, it is overused to hell.

Part of this is because in trackers, doing arps is pretty simple. you just put a number next to the note more or less. Theres a bit more to it thats not worth explaining, but safe to say, you can punch in fluttery arpcrap faster than you can type out the alphabet.

ccovell · 03/30/2011, 09:57 AM

Arpeggios aren't just sound chip abuse -- they actually serve to form chords on sound chips that have few channels and need more oomph like the SID and SMS PSG. They also lend a lot more personality to a note, something Japanese musicians often fail to do because they stick slavishly to melody, flat note on, flat note off.

Anyway, our favourite game Magical Chase has several arpeggio moments in its stellar soundtrack. You can tell Hitoshi Sakimoto (or the other guy) was a bit enamoured with European game music.

OldRover · 03/30/2011, 10:31 AM

Impossamole is loaded with them.

Tatsujin · 03/30/2011, 10:40 AM

nice said chris

TurboXray · 03/30/2011, 11:48 AM

Quote from: ccovell on 03/30/2011, 09:57 AMArpeggios aren't just sound chip abuse -- they actually serve to form chords on sound chips that have few channels and need more oomph like the SID and SMS PSG. They also lend a lot more personality to a note, something Japanese musicians often fail to do because they stick slavishly to melody, flat note on, flat note off.

Yup. Though they never come anywhere near close enough to sounding like a real chord (in whatever instrument or waveform you chose). It does add personality to an otherwise extremely flat chip like the SMS PSG and related (no duty cycles, fixed waveforms, no triangle or sine, etc). But it's just soo over used on those chips that it's a personal turn off for me, most of time, as an otherwise saturating and distracting effect when too pronounced.

SID composers might have used it for a chord effect originally since the chip is pretty limited in the number of channels, but SID has plenty of other methods to provide personality to a channels sound than resorting to something like Arps. An EU thing I guess.

QuoteAnyway, our favourite game Magical Chase has several arpeggio moments in its stellar soundtrack. You can tell Hitoshi Sakimoto (or the other guy) was a bit enamoured with European game music.

Yeah, I was surprised to learn that a number of years back too. A Japanese music developer using Arps

Though in his defense, only about 3 songs used it out of all the tracks and only 1 song of those uses it for most of the song (other two only in opening bits and such). And it's not overly pronounced. I rather like it.

Tatsujin · 03/30/2011, 12:03 PM

Quote from: guestOver arping is a European thing. SO many euro games are arptastic abortions.

Quote from: TurboXray on 03/30/2011, 11:48 AMAn EU thing I guess.

At least we had literally TONS of quite to very good game musics in the later 80s

What did you guys have in big Amerika?

TurboXray · 03/30/2011, 12:05 PM

QuoteWhat did you guys have in big Amerika?

We had wonderful Japanese games ;)

Tatsujin · 03/30/2011, 12:10 PM

Quote from: TurboXray on 03/30/2011, 12:05 PM
QuoteWhat did you guys have in big Amerika?
We had wonderful Japanese games ;)

Wrong answer, we had them too. In additional

;)

TurboXray · 03/30/2011, 12:17 PM

Yeah, but that's all we ever needed

Japanese made the best games back then. No use in playing anything else, really

ddd1234 · 03/30/2011, 01:41 PM

Quote from: TurboXray on 03/30/2011, 12:17 PMYeah, but that's all we ever needed Japanese made the best games back then. No use in playing anything else, really

Yeah, until they went really perverted and overloaded the market with dating Sims.

spenoza · 03/30/2011, 02:50 PM

Don't get me wrong, I think these arps can be used well (in moderation and subtly), but I've heard a lot of Euro PC game soundtracks that warble the frick out of every note, and that gets old REALLY fast.

*EDIT* I guess I should clarify, then, that I don't have a problem so much with the arpeggios so much as I have a problem with their omnipresence. I like them until I hear a C64 track, and then for some reason I hate them.

Yeah, Japanese composers can be melody whores, but they do often do some really nice percussion lines on the noise channels.

Joe Redifer · 03/30/2011, 06:13 PM

Quote from: ccovellArpeggios aren't just sound chip abuse -- they actually serve to form chords on sound chips that have few channels and need more oomph like the SID and SMS PSG.

Arpeggios are the equivalent of dithering. So Arpeggios are good but dithering is bad? I don't hear chords, I hear a wobbling note. Maybe I hear faster than most, I don't know. But anyone who actually hears chords from arpeggios must be listening through RF or have some sort of blur filter on their audio (just like dithering works with graphics). The Flash has some of the worst music for the Sega Master System. It doesn't sound beefy at all. There is no "oomph" to it.

ccovell · 03/30/2011, 06:20 PM

Yes, comparing arps to dithering is not so far off. But it is still such high-speed "dithering" that it's more like magazine halftone printing than in-game videogame dithering. Without even the dithering in the printing industry, all your magazines would be composed of bands of 4 solid colours.

nat · 03/30/2011, 06:24 PM

Overdone arpeggios suck ass.

The worst song on the entire Turbo platform? The Impossamole title screen track.

This is fact, and it's no coincidence.

Arkhan Asylum · 03/30/2011, 07:06 PM

arps are wonderful, colorful little explosions when used right. However, when thats ALL that is used, the melody is quickly lost, and you have background noise instead of a nice song. Its exactly like the sweep-arpeggiated metal guitar shit going on today. Eventually it becomes "ok, please stop. do something else". But when you throw little sweep runs in the middle of things, and chain them together with actual melodies, it sounds really great.

My Roland SH-101 mimics the SID sound very well, including the arps. Though, I can do way cooler arps due to it being a keyboard. More complexity to the chords, yay.

The SIDs real color and life comes from layering nicely filtered, PWM'd leads together. Its the layering of the channels that makes the sound chip sound great. Each of those channels on their own aren't really very unique.

see, no arps. Sounds nice.

Nice arps. Not overused and disastrous. The thick as fuck bass carries the tune. Whenever the arps/chords occur, they dont overtake anything and you don't lose the melody. Perfection.

and Tats, America may not have done anything stellar, but we also didn't over-arp the shit out of every chip we ever touched, and produce completely asstastic ports of awesome games.

This was so bad, Konami didn't let white people touch their games for awhile.

Quote from: ddd1234 on 03/30/2011, 01:41 PM
Quote from: TurboXray on 03/30/2011, 12:17 PMYeah, but that's all we ever needed Japanese made the best games back then. No use in playing anything else, really
Yeah, until they went really perverted and overloaded the market with dating Sims.

Most of those dating sims are pretty fun. Including the ones that are all fucked up and strange/unrealistic. Jast had alot of good ones.