Retro VGS Game Console

[glazball]

NG:Dev likes to cash in on AESholes, so what. Yay another game available for actual retro consoles that I can buy literally right now and play to the end, before the Retro VGS hits the market.

Now if NGDEV starts developing NEW games to it, that's another story.

Fixed that for you.  And who's to say the RVGS Gunlord won't be improved or expanded somehow?  And BT to answer your question: no.  I would like to play it but don't have it on DC.  Believe it or not, some of us can't buy every game we want when we want.

Guess we'll see if they put up or shut up this week when they launch their KS.

[o.pwuaioc]

NG:Dev likes to cash in on AESholes, so what. Yay another game available for actual retro consoles that I can buy literally right now and play to the end, before the Retro VGS hits the market.

Now if NGDEV starts developing NEW games to it, that's another story.

Fixed that for you.  And who's to say the RVGS Gunlord won't be improved or expanded somehow?  And BT to answer your question: no.  I would like to play it but don't have it on DC.  Believe it or not, some of us can't buy every game we want when we want.

Guess we'll see if they put up or shut up this week when they launch their KS.

But it's cheap to buy on the Dreamcast. In fact, it'd be cheaper to buy on the DC than on this crap system.

[SignOfZeta]

Sorry, Dreamcast is too retro. I need to spend $400 on something new.

It's a fair point. I'm sure NG:Dev would love for this thing to take off, then they could make games for consoles that haven't been out of production for 15-20 years which puts their business on more solid ground. I'm sure they're porting something they already have just to see how it goes, and I'm sure they'll change something while they're in there to improve it. (Maybe make the bullets pink?). If it takes off (requiring that a system be actually manufactured first) they could be the superstars of Retro VGS and basically be the closest thing to a first party.

And hey, if things go that fabulously well then I'm interested too because I'm interested in game machines that actually exist and all of their extant games. The Retro VGS team still has a long way to go, the majority of the trip, if it's going to make it to this plane of reality from whatever the hell they live.

[NecroPhile]

When it comes to NG:Dev, the Dreamcast is a non-issue, as they've said flat out that they're done with Dreamcast due to poor sales vs. downloaded torrents.  I'm not at all surprised that they're going after a more secure delivery system, though targeting the xbone or ps4 makes more sense.

[SignOfZeta]

Maybe we'll luck out and NG:Dev will just take over the whole project.

[NecroPhile]

Ha!  They'll rename it the NeoGeo X 2.0 and the price will balloon to $800 per system and $200 per game.

[o.pwuaioc]

When it comes to NG:Dev, the Dreamcast is a non-issue, as they've said flat out that they're done with Dreamcast due to poor sales vs. downloaded torrents.  I'm not at all surprised that they're going after a more secure delivery system, though targeting the xbone or ps4 makes more sense.

Well, they're porting old games, not making new ones. They also said they absolutely sucked at making Dreamcast games (i.e. they hated making patches for their buggy games), so there's no real promise that they'll move over 100% to this system either.

[SignOfZeta]

That just doesn't make any sense. The Neo Geo X was from Tommo, and I think NG:Dev has proven that they're more than willing to make games at prol pricing. What else do you call porting all your stuff to Dreamcast and selling the games for hundreds less than the Geo versions?

If the Retro VGS ever gets made, the games are all going to be on a single flash chip, just like everything made now from the 3DS to a new top of the line MacBook. Nobody is going to burn three dozen 24 pin ROMs for a game that runs on this thing.* In that scenario cost of game production should be well under $100. The machine itself, if it ends up costing $400, is already quad priced.

*not actually a thing, but a vague idea of a thing

[CGQuarterly]

I don't really understand why they are bringing Gunlord to the RetroVGS, unless they are somehow packaging the Neo-Geo ROM with Neo-Geo emulator and sticking a front-end on it so that it's not obvious.  They tried to crowd-fund a 3DS release of the game, but wanted a pretty large lump of cash (presumably to pay for development time) so it didn't get funded.  I don't see how it would be any less of a chore to port it to this console instead, unless they aren't porting it at all and are instead doing what I said.

I would much rather see the game released for PSN/XBLA.  It's a really cool game and it's a shame that it's not readily available on modern platforms.

[SignOfZeta]

Hey, the 3DS is kinda popular, but wait until you see this Retro VGS thing*!




*not yet an actual thing as of 9-14-15

[elmer]

I don't really understand why they are bringing Gunlord to the RetroVGS, unless they are somehow packaging the Neo-Geo ROM with Neo-Geo emulator and sticking a front-end on it so that it's not obvious. 

That will be exactly what they're planning. The RETRO VGS has a semi-powerful ARM chip with 1GB RAM and 3D chip just so that people can do that kind of software-emulation.

With only 7,000 potential customers, why would NG:DEV do anything else?

Mike Kennedy may throw a few thousand dollars of the KickStarter money at them to add some RETRO VGS-specficic feature ... but they'll prototype it on their existing Neo Geo kit, and not on some mythical RETRO VGS developer kit that doesn't exist.

[ctophil]

Please support the RETRO VGS if you can.  I think it will make a statement to the mainstream console manufacturers. 

You're hilarious. Have you heard of the Ouya?

It tried to make a statement exactly like the one you said. And it failed miserably.

How many units did the damn thing sell anyway? About 50,000? The Ouya company was so embarrassed, they couldn't even reveal their sales numbers.

This thing is targeting an even smaller audience, with far less power and 3-4 times the price.

I mean, at least Ouya got a mobile port of Sonic CD. This thing could barely get Shovel Knight.

I am optimistic with every console release, either it be indie or mainstream.  The RETRO VGS has an entirely different design model than the Ouya (mobile-style games vs retro games) and has different people behind the project.  Mike Kennedy launched RETRO Magazine successfully and is still going strong the past couple of years.  I've followed him and his team for quite some time.  They are passionate gamers who just want a console that caters toward the RETRO community (cart based, classic gaming, so forth), as well as those who desire physical media vs digital as the current mainstream consoles are going. 

Mike's ideas behind the project are admirable, and if I launched a retro console, I would probably do similar things.  RETRO Magazine is a good medium to advertise the upcoming console (similar how Nintendo Power covered its own consoles back in the day, this is Mike's idea too), since the majority of the readership love RETRO games.  The circulation is estimated to be 40,000 or so throughout the world.  If 30,000 of those people help fund the RETRO VGS, it will surely take off. 

The console is not coming out until next year sometime.  So, it is way too soon to put judgement on something that hasn't even reached funding yet.  Let the public vote with their money, love, and passion.  This week is when the Kickstarter will launch.

[CGQuarterly]

NG:Dev better hope that people don't figure out how to extract the game ROM out of the RetroVGS app, then.

[NecroPhile]

That just doesn't make any sense.  The Neo Geo X was from Tommo, and I think NG:Dev has proven that they're more than willing to make games at prol pricing. What else do you call porting all your stuff to Dreamcast and selling the games for hundreds less than the Geo versions?

Because I don't know what it means, I sure wouldn't call it "prol" pricing.  I only speak English and a little German.

Not that it matters, though, as it was just a joke in response to what I assumed was a joke from you.  I guess you were serious, but in what world does it make even a lick of sense for NG:Dev to take over the system?

[SignOfZeta]

NG:Dev better hope that people don't figure out how to extract the game ROM out of the RetroVGS app, then.

Well, if you encrypt it, pad the fuck out of it, make it require a custom emulator, and then encase the entire PCB in epoxy, possibly casting the case around the PCB, then chances are that none of The 7000 will allow someone smarter than themselves to destroy the cart and attempt to extract the data before the game is sold out. My guess is that physical security will be innovative and thorough.

A prole [previously sic] is a normal person like us. People who pay less than $100 for games most of the time. Proles can't afford NG:Dev releases on MVS or AES but could buy the DC versions.

I don't think it's realistic for NG:Dev to take over the project, but I think it's bound to be a better situation that the clown who's doing it now. Any fuckhead can write a retro* magazine. Reviewing 30 year old games in the current vernacular and printing it out is about one thousandth of one percent as complicated as making a game machine.

As I said earlier in the thread, the system may actually come out, but if it does then it will be despite its "creator's"** best effort, not because of it, since the guy doesn't know thing one about hardware design. If it's going to happen then ALL of the real work will be done by other people, just as ALL of the investment is coming from other people which makes you wonder...is this the Tony Wilson of video games or he just a Flav A Flav with no PE? What purpose does the guy serve? I suppose the answer is hype, but his hype sucks pretty bad too.




*note that "retro" is not spelled in caps without a special reason.

**note: has not actually created much except for possibly a drawing in crayon.

[GohanX]

When it comes to NG:Dev, the Dreamcast is a non-issue, as they've said flat out that they're done with Dreamcast due to poor sales vs. downloaded torrents.  I'm not at all surprised that they're going after a more secure delivery system, though targeting the xbone or ps4 makes more sense.

They say this, yet most of their DC releases sell out pretty quickly. The only one that took a while was the original Last Hope on neo cd and let's face it, it wasn't that good.

[esteban]

I am following this discussion.

I am still waiting for it to be cancelled, but I fear ego and hubris will prevent this silly thing from dying gracefully.

Proles on parade

[CrackTiger]

I can't find any more confirmed RVGS games other than those on the main site and the recently announced NGDev game. But I know for sure now that all but the pack-in title Tiny Knight are available on other platforms and I'm not 100% sure that Tiny Knight isn't. When most are also available on existing consoles and this thing is using emulation, as I've said, I don't see the point, but also I don't see how you get any kind of "console-feeling" from it. Should the Ouya have used the CDi console shell? At least the Retron5 and other cart-based clones let you pretend that you're actually playing your real carts.

How many console launch lineup games in history have been ports of other console games?

The DS got Mario 64, but not only was it a portable console, it was basically a portable N64, so it made sense and added to the appeal.

Some have been ports of arcade games which may have already received ports for other consoles. But that made sense 20 - 30 years ago and they would be all-round upgrades and developed from the ground up for the new hardware. R-Type TG-16 wasn't a port of R-Type SMS.

[PukeSter]

Black Tiger, Tiny Knight is also an SNES game. So no it's not actually exclusive.

Considering Collectorvision's other game Sydney Hunter is coming out on the Wii U, I wouldn't be surprised if Tiny Knight goes onto PC or something.

[Mathius]

Proles on parade

Beautiful

[CGQuarterly]

I am still waiting for it to be cancelled, but I fear ego and hubris will prevent this silly thing from dying gracefully.

It's death will come in the form of a failed KickStarter campaign.

Edit: In case you weren't aware, they want MILLIONS of dollars in KickStarter funds.

[jtucci31]

I am still waiting for it to be cancelled, but I fear ego and hubris will prevent this silly thing from dying gracefully.

It's death will come in the form of a failed KickStarter campaign.

Edit: In case you weren't aware, they want MILLIONS of dollars in KickStarter funds.

Millions? Plural? 

[crazydean]

While on facebook, looking for some info about the kickstarter, this is the first comment I read:

"I'm hope I'm in the first 500. I'm going for the exclusive but will there be a bigger bundle that'll include launch titles ir other things? I'm going with whatever the best package ends up being whatever the price. I'm selling old gaming stuff to raise the money so the sooner I know how much I need the sooner I can start raising the money."

Somebody please tell me this is a shill account started by the makers of the RVGS to make their product look appealing.

[elmer]

Millions? Plural? 

2.25M last I heard.

It's going to take a lot of money to get cardboard circuit boards to work properly! 

Looks like they've just announced some pricing ...

Will YOU be one of the first 500 backers to score an Early Bird Black Retro VGS for $299? Or go for one of the exclusive colors for $349? Decisions that will need to be made in the coming days! The countdown has officially begun.

[CGQuarterly]

I'm curious to see if KS will end up pulling the campaign, since the RetroVGS folks are violating the rules by not having a working prototype.

And yeah, that Facebook post sounds fake as shit.  IM SELLING ALL MY OLD GAMES TO PAY FOR THIS.  Nigga, PLS.

[o.pwuaioc]

While on facebook, looking for some info about the kickstarter, this is the first comment I read:

"I'm hope I'm in the first 500. I'm going for the exclusive but will there be a bigger bundle that'll include launch titles ir other things? I'm going with whatever the best package ends up being whatever the price. I'm selling old gaming stuff to raise the money so the sooner I know how much I need the sooner I can start raising the money."

Somebody please tell me this is a shill account started by the makers of the RVGS to make their product look appealing.

Sounds more like a troll than a shill.

[esteban]

While on facebook, looking for some info about the kickstarter, this is the first comment I read:

"I'm hope I'm in the first 500. I'm going for the exclusive but will there be a bigger bundle that'll include launch titles ir other things? I'm going with whatever the best package ends up being whatever the price. I'm selling old gaming stuff to raise the money so the sooner I know how much I need the sooner I can start raising the money."

Somebody please tell me this is a shill account started by the makers of the RVGS to make their product look appealing.

Sounds more like a troll than a shill.

Yeah, I'd vote "troll" on that post, bless him or her.

[glazball]

I'm curious to see if KS will end up pulling the campaign, since the RetroVGS folks are violating the rules by not having a working prototype.

And that's IF they even use Kickstarter.  If they really don't have a working prototype, they may use some other site to raise money.  Their FB page simply says "mid September crowdfunding campaign."  He has mentioned KS, implying they do (or will) have a working prototype, but we'll see.  If they don't not only will this RVGS idea crash and burn but may also fuck up the chances for any better team to come out with a cart-based console in the future.

[elmer]

And that's IF they even use Kickstarter.  If they really don't have a working prototype, they may use some other site to raise money.

They've mentioned Kickstarter too many times, including that they negotiated a "special" deal, for me to think that they'd go somewhere else.

I guess that there's also a question of what a "working" prototype is. They've got a shiny case, a working controller, at least one "prototype" game with Tiny Knight, and a piece of cardboard with output connectors positioned on it.

They're not proposing to do anything radically new here, they're just matching an ARM chip with an Altera FPGA. You can look at the MiST, or any recent Terasic development board to see that that can be done. It's just a case of having the funds.

Heck, you can even buy the basic hardware on eBay ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Altera-DE1-SoC-Cyclone-V-Development-and-Education-Board-P0159-with-Extra-/262032197804?hash=item3d025608ac

I'd be somewhat surprised if the Kickstarter management would actually force them to have a board running inside their JagWire case.

And even if they did want to see running "hardware", all that the RETRO VGS guys need to do is to buy a cheap Chinese Android media-box system and take it out of it's box, and the Kickstarter guys wouldn't know the difference.

What they're selling isn't a piece of hardware ... that bit is easy. They're selling the dream of a whole eco-system of game developers making new cartridge-based games.

How does the Kickstarter management police that particular fantasy?

[SephirothTNH]

I am still waiting for it to be cancelled, but I fear ego and hubris will prevent this silly thing from dying gracefully.

It's death will come in the form of a failed KickStarter campaign.

Edit: In case you weren't aware, they want MILLIONS of dollars in KickStarter funds.

[elmer]

Hahaha ... it just keeps on getting weirder! 

Now they've dropped the s-video output and added a large "expansion" connector to the back.

It looks like a pretty huge connector ... I wonder what kind stresses on the motherboard they're going to get from people plugging and unplugging all their RETRO VGS "old cartridge" expansions.

[CrackTiger]

Are any "retro" connections left, so that you can actually hook the thing to a proper "retro" TV, or is it only hdmi now?

If it becomes hdmi-only, they should get a supply of cheap led monitors and have a cheap crt shell made for them and sell them for a premium to those hardcore enough to afford an authentic "retro" experience.

[BlueBMW]

Not sure if someone pointed this out yet, looks like they're going to use indiegogo instead of kickstarter.  Probably because of the whole prototype issue people were mentioning.

[CGQuarterly]

Not sure if someone pointed this out yet, looks like they're going to use indiegogo instead of kickstarter.  Probably because of the whole prototype issue people were mentioning.

Lol.  Indiegogo. 

This gives me an idea...

[BlueBMW]

How can I buy a console and games when they're available?

The RETRO VGS will be sold initially via a Summer 2015 Indiegogo campaign.  At the conclusion of the campaign we will continue to take pre-orders on our website and on FunStock.co.uk. More retail options to be announced.  Finished consoles will be delivering in the order purchased beginning mid 2016.

[mickcris]

will be interesting to see the details.  if it does fund (which i highly doubt), i wonder how long it will be for them to prototype the system and build them.  Cant see it being anything less than a year.

edit:
just saw post above after I posted.  I am thinking there is a good chance of them not making the mid 2016 estimate.

[mickcris]

delete.  bad reading comprehension by me.

[CGQuarterly]

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=19780

 

[SignOfZeta]

Not sure if someone pointed this out yet, looks like they're going to use indiegogo instead of kickstarter.  Probably because of the whole prototype issue people were mentioning.

Man, they better be careful. If they don't make their goal on Kickstarter they get nothing. If they are short on Indigogo they get to keep no matter what gets donated.

So they could find themselves with a million dollars or whatever easily...but that also sort of obligates you to actually make the thing and that's a responsibility I wouldn't wish on anyone because the product they want is extremely difficult to make. Impossible, practically speaking. That million bucks may end up being their albatross.

[NecroPhile]

Not sure if someone pointed this out yet, looks like they're going to use indiegogo instead of kickstarter.  Probably because of the whole prototype issue people were mentioning.

Ha!  They can't get something as dead simple as a funding campaign decided and ready on time (their facebook page still says it'll be on kickstarter), so I don't know how anyone can continue to defend 'em.  It's one thing to be optimistic and hope for the best, but you gotta be mildly retarded to ignore so many warning signs.

[esteban]

^ I concur. Too many warning signs. At least I have a few buckets of popcorn in preparation for the unfolding Retro VGS drama...

[NecroPhile]

A lulz worthy comment from their facebook page:

"uh oh. i hear rumours of indiegogo... that's where kickstarter's rejects go to take people's money and not deliver a product (pretty much every single time actually)... that's definitely not a good sign guys my heart just broke."

[mickcris]

Mike is posting in the thread on Neogaf today.  Said Indegogo "courted them" to use them instead of Kickstarter.  I find that a bit hard to believe.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=179171474&postcount=1145

[CGQuarterly]

I wouldn't be surprised if they fail to reach $10,000.  Unless someone can't point me to some (because admittedly I am an out-of-touch old person) I haven't really seen any hype for this system anywhere.  I feel like Mike thinks that there are thousands of gamers champing at the bit to pre-order this thing as soon as the campaign goes live.  Are there?  He wants to raise a couple of million dollars, and at $300 each, he's going to need over 6,500 pre-orders.

[mickcris]

I wouldn't be surprised if they fail to reach $10,000.  Unless someone can't point me to some (because admittedly I am an out-of-touch old person) I haven't really seen any hype for this system anywhere.  I feel like Mike thinks that there are thousands of gamers champing at the bit to pre-order this thing as soon as the campaign goes live.  Are there?  He wants to raise a couple of million dollars, and at $300 each, he's going to need over 6,500 pre-orders.

there are some people that seem super hyped about it on their facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS

they have 16K likes, but that does not mean 16K people are going to buy it.

[esteban]

I wouldn't be surprised if they fail to reach $10,000.  Unless someone can't point me to some (because admittedly I am an out-of-touch old person) I haven't really seen any hype for this system anywhere.  I feel like Mike thinks that there are thousands of gamers champing at the bit to pre-order this thing as soon as the campaign goes live.  Are there?  He wants to raise a couple of million dollars, and at $300 each, he's going to need over 6,500 pre-orders.

I know for a fact that 666 people are willing to donate ~$1,000 apiece.

[Arkhan Asylum]

They might also use IndieGoGo for that thing where they get funds regardless of meeting goals..

[esteban]

They might also use IndieGoGo for that thing where they get funds regardless of meeting goals..

That is the biggest incentive.

[crazydean]

Hahaha ... it just keeps on getting weirder! 

Now they've dropped the s-video output and added a large "expansion" connector to the back.

It looks like a pretty huge connector ... I wonder what kind stresses on the motherboard they're going to get from people plugging and unplugging all their RETRO VGS "old cartridge" expansions.

According to their site, the 9-pin mini DIN connector will be able to output s-video. It may be able to output component or even RGB. Really though, who knows. Maybe by the time this thing gets to production, they will make some decision.

[NecroPhile]

They might also use IndieGoGo for that thing where they get funds regardless of meeting goals..

They have a fixed funding model as well, where you only get paid if the goal is met.  They say that's the way theirs will be set up.